I recently purchased a home a few miles out of town with ~4-1/2 acres and
it's getting time to mow some grass. There is approximately 1-1/2 acres for
the yard and another 3 acres of brush & small trees. I recently bought a
backhoe for the brush cleanup but haven't decided what to do about the
mowing yet. One idea is to get a lawn tractor for the lawn and later on
come up with a tractor & bush hog for the field. I've been looking at Sears
lawn tractors at the local store. They have one with Automatic
transmission, 17.5hp Kohler, cast iron axle, for $1399. There is a similar
unit with a Briggs engine for around the same price. They also have some
higher priced mowers with ~25hp engines for $2100 to ~$2500. What I don't
like about the larger tractors is that it would probably be more difficult
cutting around trees & bushes with the larger turning radius and all.

I'm trying to decide on just buying a used tractor, bush hog, & perhaps
finish mower or get lawn tractor now and tractor/bush hog later.

Also, if I get a lawn tractor, should I get one with a Kohler or Briggs
engine? Is the Craftsman mowers a good value or is there something better I
should look at?

Thanks for any helpful advice!

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:10:37 GMT, "RogerN"
shouted from the rooftop:


I recently purchased a home a few miles out of town with ~4-1/2 acres and
it's getting time to mow some grass. There is approximately 1-1/2 acres for
the yard and another 3 acres of brush & small trees. I recently bought a
backhoe for the brush cleanup but haven't decided what to do about the
mowing yet. One idea is to get a lawn tractor for the lawn and later on
come up with a tractor & bush hog for the field. I've been looking at Sears
lawn tractors at the local store. They have one with Automatic
transmission, 17.5hp Kohler, cast iron axle, for $1399. There is a similar
unit with a Briggs engine for around the same price. They also have some
higher priced mowers with ~25hp engines for $2100 to ~$2500. What I don't
like about the larger tractors is that it would probably be more difficult
cutting around trees & bushes with the larger turning radius and all.

Hi. We sell both commercial and consumer lawnmowers:
If your thought is to expand the current lawn, then a cheap garden
tractor isn't going to be up to the job- anything over an acre is
pushing it.
You need an LCE (Landscape Commercial Equipment) type mower- like a
Toro Z Master zero-turn rider or a Proline walk behind with a 52 inch
deck. See www.toro.com for more details. They are not cheap, but will
last forever in single-lawn service.

I'm trying to decide on just buying a used tractor, bush hog, & perhaps
finish mower or get lawn tractor now and tractor/bush hog later.

Also, if I get a lawn tractor, should I get one with a Kohler or Briggs
engine?

Realistically, there's not a lot of difference. The Briggs Vanguard is
one tough engine. So is the Kohler.

Is the Craftsman mowers a good value

No.
Sears, Kmart, John Deere, and most other garden tractors are
lightweight toys built by either MTD or American Yard Products (owned
by Electrolux). The product label will tell who built it.
Cub Cadet and Toro (Wheel Horse) are heavy-duty machines built to work
hard. They cost about twice as much as the 'home owner' tractors and
are worth every penny.

-Carl

"An honest man doesn't need a long memory"- Jesse Ventura

RogerN wrote:
I recently purchased a home a few miles out of town with ~4-1/2 acres and
it's getting time to mow some grass. There is approximately 1-1/2 acres for
the yard and another 3 acres of brush & small trees. I recently bought a
backhoe for the brush cleanup but haven't decided what to do about the
mowing yet. One idea is to get a lawn tractor for the lawn and later on
come up with a tractor & bush hog for the field. I've been looking at Sears
lawn tractors at the local store. They have one with Automatic
transmission, 17.5hp Kohler, cast iron axle, for $1399. There is a similar
unit with a Briggs engine for around the same price. They also have some
higher priced mowers with ~25hp engines for $2100 to ~$2500. What I don't
like about the larger tractors is that it would probably be more difficult
cutting around trees & bushes with the larger turning radius and all.

I think that a lot depends on how good of a job
you want to do. I've watched my brother tend his
orchard and cut the grass under the trees with
a full-sized tractor and mowing attachment. It
did a surprisingly good job and he was *fast*
with it.

I'm trying to decide on just buying a used tractor, bush hog, & perhaps
finish mower or get lawn tractor now and tractor/bush hog later.

Also, if I get a lawn tractor, should I get one with a Kohler or Briggs
engine? Is the Craftsman mowers a good value or is there something better I
should look at?

Thanks for any helpful advice!

RogerN wrote:

I recently purchased a home a few miles out of town with ~4-1/2 acres and
it's getting time to mow some grass. There is approximately 1-1/2 acres for
the yard and another 3 acres of brush & small trees. I recently bought a
backhoe for the brush cleanup but haven't decided what to do about the
mowing yet. One idea is to get a lawn tractor for the lawn and later on
come up with a tractor & bush hog for the field. I've been looking at Sears
lawn tractors at the local store. They have one with Automatic
transmission, 17.5hp Kohler, cast iron axle, for $1399. There is a similar
unit with a Briggs engine for around the same price. They also have some
higher priced mowers with ~25hp engines for $2100 to ~$2500. What I don't
like about the larger tractors is that it would probably be more difficult
cutting around trees & bushes with the larger turning radius and all.

I'm trying to decide on just buying a used tractor, bush hog, & perhaps
finish mower or get lawn tractor now and tractor/bush hog later.

Also, if I get a lawn tractor, should I get one with a Kohler or Briggs
engine? Is the Craftsman mowers a good value or is there something better I
should look at?

Thanks for any helpful advice!





I have two acres and two riding lawn mowers (one old - one new) They
work Ok on the lawn but
choke up on tall weeds. They have plenty of power but the mowing deck
can't clear the cut grass
if it is too high. Keep the weeds short and most mowers will probably be
OK. For tall weeds
and brush better get something bigger.

Bill K7NOM

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
news
RogerN wrote:
I think that a lot depends on how good of a job
you want to do. I've watched my brother tend his
orchard and cut the grass under the trees with
a full-sized tractor and mowing attachment. It
did a surprisingly good job and he was *fast*
with it.

I'll admit to knowing little about tractors, but I find myself thinking
"Farmall Cub".

The below is from: http://www.ytmag.com/profiles/cubprof.htm
The Farmall Cub Today

Today the Farmall Cub is still extremely popular - for many of the same reasons
it was popular 50 years ago. One of the advantages of this popularity is: if you
own one, you enjoy a ready supply of new after-market (replacement) parts.

One of the most popular uses of this tractor today is for mowing large lawns or
golf courses with a belly mower attached. New after-factory belly mowers are
available from Woods brand equipment dealers. There are also 3-point hitch kits
available for these tractors which makes it possible to use many of todays
popular 3-point implements. You do need to consider the horsepower of the
tractor before using a modern implement and make sure that it is rated for the
small size of the Cub.

Many of these tractors are also still in use by gardeners with a large vegetable
patch. The Cultivision setup simply can't be beat for cultivating rows of tender
young vegetables.

You'll find quite a few Farmall Cubs restored and parade-ready. You can always
find at least one at an Antique Tractor Show with it's proud owner standing by.
They are not rare machines by any means. But due to their continued popularity
they can command a pretty high purchase price. Be prepared to pay anywhere from
$1000.00 to $3500.00 for a running tractor, depending upon condition and
available implements.

I have owned two lawn-tractor/mowers since I moved to Houston. The
Briggs and Stratton engine in both machines (MTD and Murray)outlasted
the rest of the machine.

The lawn mower type tractors are not heavy enough for real tractor
work. They lack brakes and only have one wheel powered up at a time
(No axle lock up or positract action) The MTD unit has variable cone
pulleys for changing speed. Big joke. It is MUCH more reliable to
have gears in a sealed up gear box. I have to screw with the belts
all the time. The bushings on the wheels for turning are plastic, and
wear out within a couple of years. Hassle Hassle Hassle.

Brownnsharp

I do agree that Ariens, Toro (some), Cub Cadet, etc. are probably better
than sears, but, Sears isn't all bad and no I'm not a Sears salesman.

I bought my Sears after discussion with my father in law who has been using
the same Sears 11.5 Hp 42" mower yard tractor since 1975. He mows 3.6 acres
of grass once a week and blades snow (northern Ohio) off 400' of driveway as
needed, and he is anal about his lawn.

I bought the 20hp Briggs Vanguard with the big rear wheels, 48" 3 blade,
with a 48" two-stage snowblower. I live in the mountains of NE Oregon we get
about 160" of snow, and I mow 2.5 acres of rough terrain grass. I use and
abuse it, big time. I have been using this Sears for 10 years now, and I am
pleased with the VALUE I have gotten. I have had to do the usual tune-up
change out some bolts, belts, etc. but the only big parts I have had to
replace were the Bearings and driveline for the blower. The original was
made from mild steel, Sears wanted $140 for shaft, bearings and shipping. I
had one made by the local small machine shop out of better steel and I put
better bearings in it for less than $90.

Sure I would rather have a $6K toy but I only had $2800 to spend..

Get the very best that you can afford without selling your soul. Go with a
true "Tractor"style mower (easily detachable attachments), high ground
clearance, Either Vanguard or Kohler engine and I think that they have a
couple of models with the new Kawasaki engines.

I would actually prefer a hydrostatic drive on mine for the snow, but it
was $600 more money that I didn't have. You for sure need the 2peed if you
don't have the Hydro.

Parts are hard part if you need them more than 10yrs down the road, but I
think that's something that is industry wide. It is not in a manufacturers
best interest to sell something with a long life span. We're not dealing
with the same levels of business integrity as our parents did.

BTW, Cub Cadet and Toro, Wheel Horse, etc. aren't the same machines they
were 20 years ago either.

The Old addage "you get what you pay for" is not necessarily so in these
days of corporate greed and bottomlines; comes from bean-counters and
lawyers head up companies as opposed to R&D and people who have their hearts
in quality.

Good Luck,
hatter

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:00:10 -0700, "thehatter"
shouted from the rooftop:

I do agree that Ariens, Toro (some), Cub Cadet, etc. are probably better
than sears, but, Sears isn't all bad and no I'm not a Sears salesman.

I bought my Sears after discussion with my father in law who has been using
the same Sears 11.5 Hp 42" mower yard tractor since 1975. He mows 3.6 acres
of grass once a week and blades snow (northern Ohio) off 400' of driveway as
needed, and he is anal about his lawn.

His Sears was probably built by Bolens- a good, solid machine.
The new ones are crap by comparison. Take a look at the chassis on the
newer Sears units- it's nothing more than a light guage sheetmetal box
built to the same level of quality as a disposable bar-b-q charcoal
grill.

BTW, Cub Cadet and Toro, Wheel Horse, etc. aren't the same machines they
were 20 years ago either.

I'd like to know how you arrived at that conclusion.
Toro still builds the 1132 rider (also known as "The Brush Hog"
because it's 32 inch wide blade will slice and dice small trees),
which is an old design, along with the Wheel Horse Classic series-
cast iron axle, electric lift, cruise control, Peerless gearbox- a
real tractor.

-Carl
"An honest man doesn't need a long memory"- Jesse Ventura

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:36:17 GMT, Carl Byrns
wrote:


No.
Sears, Kmart, John Deere, and most other garden tractors are
lightweight toys built by either MTD or American Yard Products (owned
by Electrolux). The product label will tell who built it.
Cub Cadet and Toro (Wheel Horse) are heavy-duty machines built to work
hard. They cost about twice as much as the 'home owner' tractors and
are worth every penny.

-Carl

"An honest man doesn't need a long memory"- Jesse Ventura
You can get a real John deere, or a cheepy at Home Despot. The
expensive one isn't a bad tractor.
The Cub Cadet is made by MTD, so do not tar all MTD products with the
same brush.
That said, I'd be looking at a commercial ZTR with a diesel on it.

"RogerN" wrote in message
nk.net...

I recently purchased a home a few miles out of town with ~4-1/2 acres and
it's getting time to mow some grass. There is approximately 1-1/2 acres
for
the yard and another 3 acres of brush & small trees. I recently bought a
backhoe for the brush cleanup but haven't decided what to do about the
mowing yet. One idea is to get a lawn tractor for the lawn and later on
come up with a tractor & bush hog for the field. I've been looking at
Sears
lawn tractors at the local store. They have one with Automatic
transmission, 17.5hp Kohler, cast iron axle, for $1399. There is a
similar
unit with a Briggs engine for around the same price. They also have some
higher priced mowers with ~25hp engines for $2100 to ~$2500. What I don't
like about the larger tractors is that it would probably be more difficult
cutting around trees & bushes with the larger turning radius and all.

I'm trying to decide on just buying a used tractor, bush hog, & perhaps
finish mower or get lawn tractor now and tractor/bush hog later.

Also, if I get a lawn tractor, should I get one with a Kohler or Briggs
engine? Is the Craftsman mowers a good value or is there something better
I
should look at?

Thanks for any helpful advice!

I maintain a lumpy, bumpy pasture with a 35 year old JD riding mower with a
42" deck and 10 HP Kohler. It weighs 800 lbs, built like a tank. I abuse
the heck out of it, brush-hogging blackberry bramble and small trees by just
driving over them. The 10 HP is underpowered so tall grass is cut at a low
speed. 25 HP would be nice, they sold this model with up to 18 HP but I
will stick with the 10.

Anyway I figure any new mower would need to be built as well to stand up to
this service, and it looks like a comparable model today is $4000 to $5000
new. So I keep fixing the JD.

One neighbor has been buying a ~ $1500 Craftsman / Kohler 20 HP every couple
years, takes that long to pretty much destroy one. Other neighbor spent
$5000 on a used Kubota diesel riding mower, he's ahead on the deal far as I
can tell.

My feeling is the Sears et. al. will provide good value for a smooth, clean
lawn, but a lumpy pasture or any FOD will quickly destroy the mower deck and
the front axle, and the rest will follow.

Bob

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:43:44 GMT, Carl Byrns wrote:
I'd like to know how you arrived at that conclusion.
Toro still builds the 1132 rider (also known as "The Brush Hog"
because it's 32 inch wide blade will slice and dice small trees),
which is an old design, along with the Wheel Horse Classic series-
cast iron axle, electric lift, cruise control, Peerless gearbox- a
real tractor.

Toro also sells some consumer grade crap no better built than
a Sears. I know, I was fool enough to get rid of my 31 year old
Snapper for a 16 hp "Wheel Horse". BTW, the Snapper, an 8 hp
model with a single 30 inch blade, which I gave to a lady friend
of mine, still cuts better, and faster, than the Toro, though I will
admit the Toro has a tighter turning radius.

What I really wanted, and what I should have bought, was a John
Deere 48 inch front deck zero turning radius mower. That's a hoss,
tough, dependable, and able to do things you'd otherwise need a
trim mower to do (I have one up at the farm). A Grasshopper and
a Dixon were also in the running. But I Cheapistaned out and
bought that blasted Toro instead. (Wheel Horse my ass!)

All that venting aside, I agree with Carl that you should buy a
commercial grade mower. Buy it once, keep it forever, you'll be
glad you did. Zero turning radius front deck machines are so far
ahead of tractor style mowers for the average yard that it isn't
even funny. They're so much more nimble you'll get done much
faster, and you can get rid of your trim mower.

Gary

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:10:37 GMT, "RogerN" wrote:


I recently purchased a home a few miles out of town with ~4-1/2 acres and
it's getting time to mow some grass. There is approximately 1-1/2 acres for
the yard and another 3 acres of brush & small trees. I recently bought a
backhoe for the brush cleanup but haven't decided what to do about the
mowing yet. One idea is to get a lawn tractor for the lawn and later on
come up with a tractor & bush hog for the field. I've been looking at Sears
lawn tractors at the local store. They have one with Automatic
transmission, 17.5hp Kohler, cast iron axle, for $1399. There is a similar
unit with a Briggs engine for around the same price. They also have some
higher priced mowers with ~25hp engines for $2100 to ~$2500. What I don't
like about the larger tractors is that it would probably be more difficult
cutting around trees & bushes with the larger turning radius and all.

I'm trying to decide on just buying a used tractor, bush hog, & perhaps
finish mower or get lawn tractor now and tractor/bush hog later.

Also, if I get a lawn tractor, should I get one with a Kohler or Briggs
engine? Is the Craftsman mowers a good value or is there something better I
should look at?

Thanks for any helpful advice!


Sheep!

Mark Rand
RTFM

Mark Rand wrote:

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:10:37 GMT, "RogerN" wrote:



I recently purchased a home a few miles out of town with ~4-1/2 acres and
it's getting time to mow some grass. There is approximately 1-1/2 acres for
the yard and another 3 acres of brush & small trees. I recently bought a
backhoe for the brush cleanup but haven't decided what to do about the
mowing yet. One idea is to get a lawn tractor for the lawn and later on
come up with a tractor & bush hog for the field. I've been looking at Sears
lawn tractors at the local store. They have one with Automatic
transmission, 17.5hp Kohler, cast iron axle, for $1399. There is a similar
unit with a Briggs engine for around the same price. They also have some
higher priced mowers with ~25hp engines for $2100 to ~$2500. What I don't
like about the larger tractors is that it would probably be more difficult
cutting around trees & bushes with the larger turning radius and all.

I'm trying to decide on just buying a used tractor, bush hog, & perhaps
finish mower or get lawn tractor now and tractor/bush hog later.

Also, if I get a lawn tractor, should I get one with a Kohler or Briggs
engine? Is the Craftsman mowers a good value or is there something better I
should look at?

Thanks for any helpful advice!




Sheep!

Mark Rand
RTFM


I have a freind who runs some sheep and he offered to loan me a couple.
I feed them
and he gets the wool :-)

you might check with farmers in the area.

Bill K7NOM

I'll admit to knowing little about tractors, but I find myself thinking
"Farmall Cub".

Many of these tractors are also still in use by gardeners with a large vegetable
patch. The Cultivision setup simply can't be beat for cultivating rows of tender
young vegetables.

If you can find one this is a pretty good setup. We have a Farmall B
with a 6' Woods belly deck. The thing can mow down about anything.
The tractor itself is nearly bulletproof, but if you do break
something parts are available. The deck is built out of heavy steel
plate with three overlapping blades. The blade shafts are in heavy
bearings and with decent lube maintenance will last forever.

I have a Schweiss Zero Turn now that the wife likes to use more, but
if I am mowing I have to think about which one I want to use. The ZT
is way more maneuverable, but it just can't climb ditch banks and mow
down heavy weeds/brush like the B can.

They are both about the same rated HP, but the B has a lot more torque
and low end power.

Can generally be found for around $3000 w/ the deck on them. If you
don't have to many trees to mow around the B is hands down the way to
go. If you can mow in a pattern you can get around the trees without
wasting lots of time. With a 6' deck you take a heck of a swath out
of the lawn at a time. W/ lots of trees, maybe look at the B and a
push mower for trim work or find a used commericial ZT that a
municipality is upgrading. Depends on your budget and level of AR.

I bought mine from a trade-in that a local municipality had done to
upgrade. It was due for upgrade based on budgets, not because it was
worn out. I have seen this several times.

JW

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:54:34 GMT, "Vaughn"
wrote:

||
||"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
||news || RogerN wrote:
|| I think that a lot depends on how good of a job
|| you want to do. I've watched my brother tend his
|| orchard and cut the grass under the trees with
|| a full-sized tractor and mowing attachment. It
|| did a surprisingly good job and he was *fast*
|| with it.
||
|| I'll admit to knowing little about tractors, but I find myself thinking
||"Farmall Cub".
||
||The below is from: http://www.ytmag.com/profiles/cubprof.htm
||The Farmall Cub Today
||
||Today the Farmall Cub is still extremely popular - for many of the same
reasons
||it was popular 50 years ago. One of the advantages of this popularity is: if
you
||own one, you enjoy a ready supply of new after-market (replacement) parts.
||
||One of the most popular uses of this tractor today is for mowing large lawns
or
||golf courses with a belly mower attached. New after-factory belly mowers are
||available from Woods brand equipment dealers. There are also 3-point hitch
kits
||available for these tractors which makes it possible to use many of todays
||popular 3-point implements. You do need to consider the horsepower of the
||tractor before using a modern implement and make sure that it is rated for the
||small size of the Cub.
||
||Many of these tractors are also still in use by gardeners with a large
vegetable
||patch. The Cultivision setup simply can't be beat for cultivating rows of
tender
||young vegetables.
||
||You'll find quite a few Farmall Cubs restored and parade-ready. You can always
||find at least one at an Antique Tractor Show with it's proud owner standing
by.
||They are not rare machines by any means. But due to their continued popularity
||they can command a pretty high purchase price. Be prepared to pay anywhere
from
||$1000.00 to $3500.00 for a running tractor, depending upon condition and
||available implements.

I'll second that. In fact, I have a 1970-ish Farm Cub LowBoy for sale in the
Dallas TX area. It's been restored, but has no mower or other implements. Pay
me $1300 for my tractor and buy a $1200 Woods 60" mower and you have a very nice
commercial-grade mowing machine.
Rex in Fort Worth

||BTW, Cub Cadet and Toro, Wheel Horse, etc. aren't the same machines they
||were 20 years ago either.

I understand there are two levels of Cub Cadet now: The consumer variety sold by
Lowes et al, and the commercial machines sold at a CC dealership. You can look
at both and see the difference.
I had a 32" Murray cheapo, nearly new, that I sold off to buy a 5-year old
CC 1864. Kohler power, Hydrostatic, Power steering, 48" cut, 3-pt hitch. Came
with a disc harrow and a rear blade, for $1000. Best money I have spent on
mowing equipment. It will mow faster than I care to drive it on my hillside
acre.
Rex in Fort Worth

I've got an old Gravely 2-wheel tractor. Walk-behind unless you use a sulky.
Rugged and easy to work on, with all parts available.

With a 30" deck you're set for brush hogging, but the finish cut is a little
rough. 40" or larger multi-blade decks do a good finish mowing job. You
should be able to pick up a tractor and deck in good shape for $500 or less,
and it won't depreciate. You can also use reel mowers for a really fine cut -
a gang of three will give you a 72" swath.

Then you can add a snowblower, snowplow/dirt blade, rotary garden plow, dump
cart, rototiller, stump grinder, sickle bar, chipper/grinder, ditcher, wood
splitter, sprayer, scoop, backhoe, generator, leaf blower, circular saw, chain
saw or about anything else you can think of.

You do have to be willing and able to tinker with them, though.

John Martin

If your 4-1/2 acres is wide open and unobstructed enough to run a tractor with
a finish mower, or belly mower, that would be the "tits" way to go. With that
much to mow it's really the only way.

Problem:
The Crapsman stuff is designed for residential lawns just barely too large to
mow with a push mower, or even small enough to mow with a push mower if your too
lazy to push. The smaller ones are designed for 1/2acre to 1 acre lots, the
larger ones are designed for 1+ acres, but probably no more that 2ish. In this
type of use they will last for many years and not have too many problems,
assuming the yard is at least somewhat manicured and smooth.
The particular motor brand that you select in these machines is a non issue as
the day will literally come that the motor runs off across the yard leaving you
sitting in a pile that used to be your mower. In other words, the engine will
normally FAR outlast the mower. The frame and axles will be beat into submission
long before the motor dies.

Next step up would be some of the heavier machines of the "garden tractor"
variety, preferably a John Deere or Cub Cadet. These are MUCH higher qulaity,
unfortunately they are also MUCH more expensive. They will mow several acres
weekly for many years with no problems, you will go through several engines
before you kill the tractor. One thing you could do is buy one of the older ones
that will make through this year and then make a winter project of sprucing it
up a bit, rebuilding the tired areas.
Yes, these machines will wear eventually, but they can be rebuilt almost
indefinately.
In camparison to the bargian basement stuff they actually have bearings instead
of bushings, cast iron instead of sheetmetal. They are fixable when they break.
I had a Cub Cadet that was built in 1963, there was not a wear item on the
machine that couldn't be bought at the dealer. Try buying parts for a 10 year
old Crapsman.

I think you get the idea.............

Tom

RogerN wrote:

I recently purchased a home a few miles out of town with ~4-1/2 acres and
it's getting time to mow some grass. There is approximately 1-1/2 acres for
the yard and another 3 acres of brush & small trees. I recently bought a
backhoe for the brush cleanup but haven't decided what to do about the
mowing yet. One idea is to get a lawn tractor for the lawn and later on
come up with a tractor & bush hog for the field. I've been looking at Sears
lawn tractors at the local store. They have one with Automatic
transmission, 17.5hp Kohler, cast iron axle, for $1399. There is a similar
unit with a Briggs engine for around the same price. They also have some
higher priced mowers with ~25hp engines for $2100 to ~$2500. What I don't
like about the larger tractors is that it would probably be more difficult
cutting around trees & bushes with the larger turning radius and all.

I'm trying to decide on just buying a used tractor, bush hog, & perhaps
finish mower or get lawn tractor now and tractor/bush hog later.

Also, if I get a lawn tractor, should I get one with a Kohler or Briggs
engine? Is the Craftsman mowers a good value or is there something better I
should look at?

Thanks for any helpful advice!

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:30:05 -0400, Gary Coffman
shouted from the rooftop:


What I really wanted, and what I should have bought, was a John
Deere 48 inch front deck zero turning radius mower. That's a hoss,
tough, dependable, and able to do things you'd otherwise need a
trim mower to do (I have one up at the farm).

None of the above. Contractors around here won't use John Deere and
JD's commercial turf equipment is the joke of the industry.
Good tractors, lousy mowers.

A Grasshopper and
a Dixon were also in the running. But I Cheapistaned out and
bought that blasted Toro instead. (Wheel Horse my ass!)

Never heard of Grasshopper. As for Dixon...
The inside scoop is this: Toro and Jacobsen are the industry leaders.
Ford and Chevy. There are some other good machines out there (Stiener
and Husqvarna come to mind) but their support is small and that limits
sales. The rest are all built in a three-sided barn by a bunch of
liquored up hillbillies with a Montgomery Wards buzzbox.

All that venting aside, I agree with Carl that you should buy a
commercial grade mower. Buy it once, keep it forever, you'll be
glad you did. Zero turning radius front deck machines are so far
ahead of tractor style mowers for the average yard that it isn't
even funny. They're so much more nimble you'll get done much
faster, and you can get rid of your trim mower.

Agreed. But don't confuse the 'consumer' zero turn mowers with the
commercial units.

-Carl
"An honest man doesn't need a long memory"- Jesse Ventura

On 14 Apr 2004 21:22:04 GMT, (JMartin957) wrote:

I've got an old Gravely 2-wheel tractor. Walk-behind unless you use a sulky.
Rugged and easy to work on, with all parts available.

With a 30" deck you're set for brush hogging, but the finish cut is a little
rough. 40" or larger multi-blade decks do a good finish mowing job. You
should be able to pick up a tractor and deck in good shape for $500 or less,
and it won't depreciate. You can also use reel mowers for a really fine cut -
a gang of three will give you a 72" swath.

Then you can add a snowblower, snowplow/dirt blade, rotary garden plow, dump
cart, rototiller, stump grinder, sickle bar, chipper/grinder, ditcher, wood
splitter, sprayer, scoop, backhoe, generator, leaf blower, circular saw, chain
saw or about anything else you can think of.

You do have to be willing and able to tinker with them, though.

John Martin
I have an old Sears "Suburban" lawn tractor. My neighbor has a new
Sears tractor. He is envious of mine. That thing is so heavily built
it'll last forever. And, there are people who restore these things.
Maybe, because you posted on this metalworking group, you might be
inclined to buy some used iron that has either been fixed already or
that you fix yourself. If I didn't have the 9N, Surburban, and the
Gibson I'd be looking for a farmall cub. I did need to weld up and
turn down one of the shafts the blade rides on in the Suburban. But it
was bad when I paid $150.00 for it and I didn't know it. After three
years of use the bearings started to make noise on that shaft. And it
was obvious, when opened up, that the bearings had been bad for more
than three years. So I spent two hours fixing it and having a good
time doing it.
ERS

"RogerN" wrote:



I'm trying to decide on just buying a used tractor, bush hog, & perhaps
finish mower or get lawn tractor now and tractor/bush hog later.

I don't know much about the "lawn tractor" gadgets from personal
experience. I had maybe 2,000 hours on one of the original Farmall Cubs
(with fast hitch, etc.) that was bought new in 1956. The original Cub
is built like a tank but its also only about 9 horsepower (although
those are 4 cylinder water cooled run about forever horsepower). Its a
4 cylinder flathead engine with a single throat updraft carb - not
unlike a mini Model A engine. At full song its only turning about 1,800
rpm so it should last and last, and it does. That said, I have trouble
recommending it for your situation. Its not enough machine.

I have a JD 770 (a Yanmar built to JD specifications) that I bought from
JD as a lease return from grape service. The lease return reduced the
price of the tractor by about $3K. I bought it with a rotary cutter on
the back and the quick attaching (literally less than 2 minutes to put
on or take off - you have to see it to believe it if you have wrestled
with the old style loaders) front loader. 20hp, 4WD, Diesel. If you go
to the small tractor discussion group, its a WEB page, you will find the
70 series John Deeres are essentially trouble free. This one sure has
been.

When I get to PA I'm planning to change it to turf tires, get it a belly
mower (that runs shaft drive off the center PTO), and maybe a backhoe -
it can mount the backhoe, center mower, and front loader at the same
time although it would be less than convenient to mow with all that
hanging off it. It already has a front end loader. I expect it to mow
the lawn, handle the landscaping chores, dig holes to plant trees or
bushes, and clear the driveway if it needs it. It will doubtless
outlast me even if I live another 40 years. Its basically bullet proof.

If you can find a used 70 series JD (they range from the 670 to the
1070) you will have a real work horse and you will be able to get parts
for it for decades.

My sister has a tractor looking Kubota riding mower - 21hp Diesel - that
has mowed about 7 acres for her for the last 7 years with about no
maintenance at all except oil changes every couple of years. Its
hydrostatic drive and near as I can tell about as reliable as gravity.
She got this after endless headaches with a Farmall Cub low boy, a
standard Cub (Cub Classic?), and a nearly endless collection of "lawn
tractors" that seldom lasted 2 years. The Kubota was purchased used.

She is lusting after a Kubota zero back swing Diesel mower based on how
well the existing Kubota has done. She and I tried out the zero back
swing mowers last summer - they are an E Ticket ride for sure. I'd love
one of those but I'll try to make do with the John Deere since I'll only
have to mow a couple of acres.

Fitch

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:18:26 -0700, Eric R Snow
shouted from the rooftop:


I have an old Sears "Suburban" lawn tractor.

Is that the Bolens-built one IIRC, the front PTO is on the rights
side by the tire.
Good machine.

-Carl
"An honest man doesn't need a long memory"- Jesse Ventura

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:18:26 -0700, Eric R Snow
wrote:


John Martin
I have an old Sears "Suburban" lawn tractor. My neighbor has a new
Sears tractor. He is envious of mine. That thing is so heavily built
it'll last forever. And, there are people who restore these things.
Maybe, because you posted on this metalworking group, you might be
inclined to buy some used iron that has either been fixed already or
that you fix yourself. If I didn't have the 9N, Surburban, and the
Gibson I'd be looking for a farmall cub. I did need to weld up and
turn down one of the shafts the blade rides on in the Suburban. But it
was bad when I paid $150.00 for it and I didn't know it. After three
years of use the bearings started to make noise on that shaft. And it
was obvious, when opened up, that the bearings had been bad for more
than three years. So I spent two hours fixing it and having a good
time doing it.
ERS

They were made by Roper. I have a '71 model ST 12. I replaced the
engine about 10 years ago with an OHV 14 hp. I have the mowing deck
apart now to repair some sheet metal. I would like to buy a new mower
shell. Any idea if they are available still?

Our rural neighborhood has tractor races each Labor Day. Mine is
undefeated three years running. Wheelie starts usually psych out the
younger participants. The Powder Puffs are run with the "bulls"
(husbands) in the trailer. With my 100# wife driving and my 245 in the
rear of the trailer, which unloads the tractor, we can do ten foot
"burnouts".

Sears, Kmart, John Deere, and most other garden tractors are
lightweight toys built by either MTD or American Yard Products (owned
by Electrolux). The product label will tell who built it.
Cub Cadet and Toro (Wheel Horse) are heavy-duty machines built to work
hard. They cost about twice as much as the 'home owner' tractors and
are worth every penny.

-Carl

Nope not 100% true. If you buy a John Deere from a John Deere dealer and not
from Home Depot, it will be a John Deere made unit. My understanding is that
John Deere tried the cheaper home owner market and it didn't work out. I
don't think they sell the MTD made units anymore. My John Deere riding mower
is made 10 times better than a John Deere unit I found at Home Depot. Mine
has a massive (well for a riding mower anyway) cast iron front axle on it,
not one made from two pieces of stamped sheet metal riveted together.

Lane

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:08:26 GMT, Carl Byrns wrote:
On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:30:05 -0400, Gary Coffman
shouted from the rooftop:

What I really wanted, and what I should have bought, was a John
Deere 48 inch front deck zero turning radius mower. That's a hoss,
tough, dependable, and able to do things you'd otherwise need a
trim mower to do (I have one up at the farm).

None of the above. Contractors around here won't use John Deere and
JD's commercial turf equipment is the joke of the industry.
Good tractors, lousy mowers.

In the 10 years I've owned that machine, it has mowed 3.5 acres weekly
(hired hand driving). In that time, one bearing in the mower deck has had
to be replaced (obviously wasn't being greased by the hired hand). I also
replaced the belts and the blades while I was at it, though they both had
some life left. Other than that, it has been solid as a rock.

I can't say the same for the Toro piece of crap I have here, which has
eaten 2 (expensive) belts and split a pulley in the 2 years I've owned
it (won't keep the damn battery charged either). The Toro (Briggs) engine
bogs on any bit of tall grass too. I can take the JD out into a pasture and
cut there. No way the Toro could.

A Grasshopper and
a Dixon were also in the running. But I Cheapistaned out and
bought that blasted Toro instead. (Wheel Horse my ass!)

Never heard of Grasshopper.

Grasshopper is a popular brand in the South, lower Midwest, and the Plains
states. You see them everywhere in this part of the country. Grasshopper has
been making these ZTR machines since 1970. They're very solidly built. The
frames are heavy wall 3 and 4 inch square tubing, decks are welded up from
heavy steel plate. No brittle castings or flimsy sheetmetal here. They use a
real hydraulic motor drive system with Ross wheel motors and Hydrogear
pumps. They use Vanguard or Kohler engines on the smaller mowers, Kubota
gas or diesel engines on the larger machines. They're fully powder coated.
Never seen one with any rust. Prices *start* at $5700 for their smallest
model (which would do nicely for my mowing needs here), and go up from
there.

As for Dixon...

Dixon has been around nearly as long, since 1974. Their machines are
more oriented toward the homeowner than Grasshopper, smaller, with
a fiberglass body shell over a tubing frame, but still good machines in
their niche.

No hydraulics on these small machines. They use variable ratio belt
drives to the wheels. A friend has one that's 15 years old, and still
going strong on the original belts (!!!). It won't keep up with my John
Deere, but it cost a lot less too, prices start at $2300 for the smallest
Dixon, the Deere cost me right at $5000 10 years ago.

The inside scoop is this: Toro and Jacobsen are the industry leaders.
Ford and Chevy. There are some other good machines out there (Stiener
and Husqvarna come to mind) but their support is small and that limits
sales. The rest are all built in a three-sided barn by a bunch of
liquored up hillbillies with a Montgomery Wards buzzbox.

I think you might be surprised if you toured the Grasshopper plant.
It is a modern 300,000 square foot facility with CAD/CAM, CNC
machining centers, robotic welding cells, powder coat booths and
ovens, etc. Dixon is a bit more mom and pop, but it is no shed either.
Both are in Kansas.

Either one of them produce machines that are light years ahead
of my Toro Wheel Horse. Hell, my 31 year old 8 hp Snapper is light
years ahead of the 16 hp Toro in what it will ride over and cut, and
in the abuse it has tolerated too.

I've seen Toro commercial turf equipment, and it is *much* better
built than *my* Toro. OTOH, put one beside a Grasshopper and it
looks downright flimsy. Grasshoppers are the Terex truck of the
mowing business.

I've had enough of this crappy Toro, I'm going to buy the small
Grasshopper that I should have bought in the first place.

Gary

"Gary Coffman" wrote in message
...

I've seen Toro commercial turf equipment, and it is *much* better
built than *my* Toro. OTOH, put one beside a Grasshopper and it
looks downright flimsy. Grasshoppers are the Terex truck of the
mowing business.

I've had enough of this crappy Toro, I'm going to buy the small
Grasshopper that I should have bought in the first place.


A friend of mine bought a grasshopper from a dealers selling both Dixon's
and Grasshoppers. The dealer told him that the Dixon wasn't even in the
same category with the grasshopper. I was talking with a guy that used to
do commercial mowing and he mentioned many top end commercial mowers
(including Grasshopper) and said his favorite was the "Turf Tiger".

Here's a link I found searching for Turf Tiger.
http://www.scag.com/zeroturns.html