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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater.
Pros and cons? Propane? Kerosene? Oil filled electric? TIA, Jack |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
What kind of lights do you have?
A couple of 500W halogen worklights over the work area put out quite a bit of radiant heat. - - Rex Burkheimer Fort Worth TX Taunt wrote: It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater. Pros and cons? Propane? Kerosene? Oil filled electric? TIA, Jack |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
Jack:
I just went through this in my 20' x20' single door detached garage, that I share with the lawn furniture. I have drywalled the ceiling its about 7'6". There is kind of an attic up there and I added minimal insulation. I just bought a "contactors 240V 3000/4000 watts 16 amps electric heater from Grainger for $115 or so. Has to run most of time in cold weather to keep it warm. I'll eventually find a ng vented unit to place on the ceiling in the corner. Gas would be more efficient in the long run. I was concerned about the change in temp causing my lathe and mill to condense moisture and rust. Anyway, that size unit seems to do the trick for me. I looked at infrared unit about the same wattage, but figured the head clearance was insufficient. Still might add an 110v infrared, because my 240 is maxed out a 16 amps. Got an extra 110v I can spare. Good Luck, Mike Venting is important, because moisture is a by-product of any of the gases burning. |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
mlcorson wrote:
Jack: I just went through this in my 20' x20' single door detached garage, that I share with the lawn furniture. I have drywalled the ceiling its about 7'6". There is kind of an attic up there and I added minimal insulation. I just bought a "contactors 240V 3000/4000 watts 16 amps electric heater from Grainger for $115 or so. Has to run most of time in cold weather to keep it warm. I'll eventually find a ng vented unit to place on the ceiling in the corner. Gas would be more efficient in the long run. I was concerned about the change in temp causing my lathe and mill to condense moisture and rust. Anyway, that size unit seems to do the trick for me. I looked at infrared unit about the same wattage, but figured the head clearance was insufficient. Still might add an 110v infrared, because my 240 is maxed out a 16 amps. Got an extra 110v I can spare. Good Luck, Mike Venting is important, because moisture is a by-product of any of the gases burning. Mike, Thanks, I hadn't thought about the moisture problem. Ron, a friend of mine, uses a 110v oil heater (radiator) in a one stall garage and it seems to work OK (just ok). I need to call and ask him about his electric bill when using it. I thought I'd ask the group before buying. Thanks, Jack P.S. The cold season around here doesn't last too long. Last night it got down to 20 degrees with a high today of 37 degrees. I quess I could dress warmer........... |
#5
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
Kerosene will make you sick if your in there too much. Its happened to
me when I tried heating with it thru athe winter. I'd go with Propane. |
#6
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
Rex B wrote:
What kind of lights do you have? A couple of 500W halogen worklights over the work area put out quite a bit of radiant heat. - - Rex Burkheimer Fort Worth TX Taunt wrote: It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater. Pros and cons? Propane? Kerosene? Oil filled electric? TIA, Jack Rex, I do need to buy some more lighting. I'm just using the 100watt bulb in the ceiling and 60watt halagen machine lamps for my workbenches. Thanks, Jack |
#7
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
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#8
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:11:54 -0600, Taunt wrote:
wrote: Kerosene will make you sick if your in there too much. Its happened to me when I tried heating with it thru athe winter. I'd go with Propane. Thanks, that's the kind of things I need to know. I have used a propane "mushroom heater" for many years. No electricity, just a 20 pound cylinder as a fuel source. LOTS of heat, right now. |
#9
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
CHEAP: Vogelzang wood-burning, two barrel stove - tractor supply. Lots and
lots of heat. $40.00 or so. "Taunt" wrote in message news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04... It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater. Pros and cons? Propane? Kerosene? Oil filled electric? TIA, Jack |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
Dave Hinz wrote: On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:11:54 -0600, Taunt wrote: wrote: Kerosene will make you sick if your in there too much. Its happened to me when I tried heating with it thru athe winter. I'd go with Propane. Thanks, that's the kind of things I need to know. I have used a propane "mushroom heater" for many years. No electricity, just a 20 pound cylinder as a fuel source. LOTS of heat, right now. Come to think of it, I do use one of those $40 heads from HF that attaches to my propane tank. It's about time to dig that out. For no bigger than it is, it does produce good usable heat almost immediately, and a propane tank lasts quite a long time. It's a bit too localized for my shop (steel building, high ceiling, but it knocks the chill off till the woodstove catches up. Rex |
#11
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:05:46 -0600, Taunt
wrote: mlcorson wrote: Jack: I just went through this in my 20' x20' single door detached garage, that I share with the lawn furniture. I have drywalled the ceiling its about 7'6". There is kind of an attic up there and I added minimal insulation. I just bought a "contactors 240V 3000/4000 watts 16 amps electric heater from Grainger for $115 or so. Has to run most of time in cold weather to keep it warm. I'll eventually find a ng vented unit to place on the ceiling in the corner. Gas would be more efficient in the long run. I was concerned about the change in temp causing my lathe and mill to condense moisture and rust. Anyway, that size unit seems to do the trick for me. I looked at infrared unit about the same wattage, but figured the head clearance was insufficient. Still might add an 110v infrared, because my 240 is maxed out a 16 amps. Got an extra 110v I can spare. Good Luck, Mike Venting is important, because moisture is a by-product of any of the gases burning. Mike, Thanks, I hadn't thought about the moisture problem. Ron, a friend of mine, uses a 110v oil heater (radiator) in a one stall garage and it seems to work OK (just ok). I need to call and ask him about his electric bill when using it. I thought I'd ask the group before buying. Thanks, Jack P.S. The cold season around here doesn't last too long. Last night it got down to 20 degrees with a high today of 37 degrees. I quess I could dress warmer........... If you can spare the space..a couple fans and a waste oil heater works pretty well. All you need to do is keep the heat off the ceiling and moving down towards the floor. And its a fun project. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
knowone wrote:
CHEAP: Vogelzang wood-burning, two barrel stove - tractor supply. Lots and lots of heat. $40.00 or so. I have something similar, though homemade and one barrel only. It is the primary heat for my 1000 sf shop, steel building. I feed it all the scrap wood I would not burn at home, plus shop waste paper, oily paper towels etc. Puts out lots of heat, but it does consume fuel and requires some attention. I'm looking at converting it to waste-oil. The double-barrel option looks interesting, as I lose a lot of heat out the stack. Hmmmmm I'm wondering if this thing is going to burn out someday. So far it's still solid, going on 5 or more seasons. Rex |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
"Rex B" wrote: (clip) A couple of 500W halogen worklights over the work area put out quite a bit of radiant heat. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yep. Total energy added to the room is 1 kw. But, at the current cost of electricity (and expected to go up) that can add substantially to your electric bill. Whatever form of heat you end up getting, consider this also: most garages have no ceiling, so the heat rises, and it takes a lot extra before you get any benefit down where you are standing. If this is true of your shop, you could get a lot of benefit by installing any kind of fan that pulls air downward toward the floor. I have seen people use a vertical duct taking suction at the top and discharging near the floor. |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
I use two types of propane heater, the use of either depending on how cold
it is. I have a "Mr. Heater" that sits on top of a propane tank and heats locally. I use this most of the time. I just move it around in back of where I'm standing - it gives about a six foot by six foot area of toastiness. I also have a heater that looks and sounds a little like a jet engine that heats a larger area, but is noisy and has an odor that's not horrible but is noticeable. I use this to take the edge off the chill when it's pretty cold out and will often use this before firing up the smaller heater. Keep in mind I live in San Francisco so my idea of cold in temperature in the forties. I also have a very small shop - about two hundred square feet with a ceiling about ten feet high. Having said that, I used the Mr. Heater when my shop was a thousand square feet with thirty foot ceilings and it still worked well for localized heating. Peter "Taunt" wrote in message news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04... It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater. Pros and cons? Propane? Kerosene? Oil filled electric? TIA, Jack |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:20:12 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote: "Rex B" wrote: (clip) A couple of 500W halogen worklights over the work area put out quite a bit of radiant heat. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yep. Total energy added to the room is 1 kw. But, at the current cost of electricity (and expected to go up) that can add substantially to your electric bill. Whatever form of heat you end up getting, consider this also: most garages have no ceiling, so the heat rises, and it takes a lot extra before you get any benefit down where you are standing. If this is true of your shop, you could get a lot of benefit by installing any kind of fan that pulls air downward toward the floor. I have seen people use a vertical duct taking suction at the top and discharging near the floor. Ive made several of these, of various sizes, using black or blue PVC pipe, and a couple muffin fans from computer equipment. Sucks it in at the top, and blows it out at the bottom from various ports. The bigger the pipe the better, along with as much suck as you can get. I even made one up for the RV I live in during the week. Its only a 6' ceiling..but really really makes a difference when it gets cold outside. Not much insulation in an old travel trailer. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Rex B" wrote: (clip) A couple of 500W halogen worklights over the work area put out quite a bit of radiant heat. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yep. Total energy added to the room is 1 kw. But, at the current cost of electricity (and expected to go up) that can add substantially to your electric bill. Whatever form of heat you end up getting, consider this also: most garages have no ceiling, so the heat rises, and it takes a lot extra before you get any benefit down where you are standing. If this is true of your shop, you could get a lot of benefit by installing any kind of fan that pulls air downward toward the floor. I have seen people use a vertical duct taking suction at the top and discharging near the floor. My garage is fully finished out (walls and ceiling). |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:05:46 -0600, Taunt wrote: mlcorson wrote: Jack: I just went through this in my 20' x20' single door detached garage, that I share with the lawn furniture. I have drywalled the ceiling its about 7'6". There is kind of an attic up there and I added minimal insulation. I just bought a "contactors 240V 3000/4000 watts 16 amps electric heater from Grainger for $115 or so. Has to run most of time in cold weather to keep it warm. I'll eventually find a ng vented unit to place on the ceiling in the corner. Gas would be more efficient in the long run. I was concerned about the change in temp causing my lathe and mill to condense moisture and rust. Anyway, that size unit seems to do the trick for me. I looked at infrared unit about the same wattage, but figured the head clearance was insufficient. Still might add an 110v infrared, because my 240 is maxed out a 16 amps. Got an extra 110v I can spare. Good Luck, Mike Venting is important, because moisture is a by-product of any of the gases burning. Mike, Thanks, I hadn't thought about the moisture problem. Ron, a friend of mine, uses a 110v oil heater (radiator) in a one stall garage and it seems to work OK (just ok). I need to call and ask him about his electric bill when using it. I thought I'd ask the group before buying. Thanks, Jack P.S. The cold season around here doesn't last too long. Last night it got down to 20 degrees with a high today of 37 degrees. I quess I could dress warmer........... If you can spare the space..a couple fans and a waste oil heater works pretty well. All you need to do is keep the heat off the ceiling and moving down towards the floor. And its a fun project. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner Gunner, It sounds like a good project but, I don't have any waste oil right now. I'm going to look into it as a project for next year. Thanks, Jack |
#18
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
Dave Hinz wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:11:54 -0600, Taunt wrote: wrote: Kerosene will make you sick if your in there too much. Its happened to me when I tried heating with it thru athe winter. I'd go with Propane. Thanks, that's the kind of things I need to know. I have used a propane "mushroom heater" for many years. No electricity, just a 20 pound cylinder as a fuel source. LOTS of heat, right now. I was at Lowes' looking at some propane heaters and the oil radiators and just couldn't make up my mind. On the box of the propane heater I was looking at said, 20 hours +/- for a 20# tank. Does that sound about right? |
#19
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
knowone wrote:
CHEAP: Vogelzang wood-burning, two barrel stove - tractor supply. Lots and lots of heat. $40.00 or so. "Taunt" wrote in message news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04... It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater. Pros and cons? Propane? Kerosene? Oil filled electric? TIA, Jack I'll check into it. I guessing I'd have to cut a hole for the exhaust, I don't know if I want to do that. ???? Thanks |
#20
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
Peter Grey wrote:
I use two types of propane heater, the use of either depending on how cold it is. I have a "Mr. Heater" that sits on top of a propane tank and heats locally. I use this most of the time. I just move it around in back of where I'm standing - it gives about a six foot by six foot area of toastiness. I also have a heater that looks and sounds a little like a jet engine that heats a larger area, but is noisy and has an odor that's not horrible but is noticeable. I use this to take the edge off the chill when it's pretty cold out and will often use this before firing up the smaller heater. Keep in mind I live in San Francisco so my idea of cold in temperature in the forties. I also have a very small shop - about two hundred square feet with a ceiling about ten feet high. Having said that, I used the Mr. Heater when my shop was a thousand square feet with thirty foot ceilings and it still worked well for localized heating. Peter "Taunt" wrote in message news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04... It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater. Pros and cons? Propane? Kerosene? Oil filled electric? TIA, Jack Peter, I am looking at the Mr. heater line of heaters. Living in Oklahoma, it doesn't stay cold for very long. Thanks, Jack |
#21
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:15:00 -0600, Taunt
wrote: I am looking at the Mr. heater line of heaters. Living in Oklahoma, it doesn't stay cold for very long. No but when it gets cold it's COLD. The Mr. Heater is great for small area heating and portability. I've got one which I will drag out for the really cold days especially when I'm not able to fully close my shop door. Most of my shop heat is produced by my used oil fired stove where I can burn wood and clean burning trash as well. Here's some pics. http://members.dslextreme.com/users/...k/newstuff.htm Scroll down a little for the stove. My current high priority personal project is my used oil hauling trailer. It's got a 250gal propane tank and I'm going to use a old Roots blower for a vacuum pump to suck the oil up in it. I've been working to hard on it to take pictures yet. With the cold spell coming this week and my low supply of oil it's been a fairly high priority. I figure I'll be out of oil in a couple of weeks and I'd rather not have to drag the old electric pump and 55 gallon barrels out to get some more. Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm |
#22
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
"Taunt" wrote in message
news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04... | It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater. | | Pros and cons? | | Propane? | Kerosene? | Oil filled electric? | | TIA, Jack I have a couple 20# bottles and one of those Coleman radiant heaters that sits on top of one. Crack the garage door a bit and light it up on max. When it's near freezing it keeps me toasty inside, but the heat leaves quickly if I have to open the door. The advantage for me is portability. Near the end of soccer season the weather turns to **** and I bring the heater out on the field for the parents/kids to warm up with. Now if someone will bring a shelter or something to break the wind, it would be almost like home! I also put some of that Styrofoam with the Mylar lining inside my metal garage door. Cut to fit and glued it all in. Makes it brighter inside and works wonders for keeping condensation down and avoiding the massive heat loss. Back the heater up to the door and the whole garage gets nice. If I got another heater for my other bottle I'd roast myself out of there, which would feel really nice sometimes! |
#23
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
I wired up a dimmer switch to the fan on mine, so I can lower the
flame and the fan speed for a low-heat setting. Larry On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:38:30 GMT, "Peter Grey" wrote: I use two types of propane heater, snip I also have a heater that looks and sounds a little like a jet engine that heats a larger area, but is noisy and has an odor that's not horrible but is noticeable. Keep in mind I live in San Francisco so my idea of cold in temperature in the forties. I also have a very small shop - about two hundred square feet with a ceiling about ten feet high. Having said that, I used the Mr. Heater when my shop was a thousand square feet with thirty foot ceilings and it still worked well for localized heating. Peter "Taunt" wrote in message news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04... It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater. Pros and cons? Propane? Kerosene? Oil filled electric? TIA, Jack |
#24
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
If you get 20 hours on 20 pounds that is about 15000 btu per hour. It
will keep your butt warm but not too much else. Taunt wrote: Dave Hinz wrote: On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:11:54 -0600, Taunt wrote: wrote: Kerosene will make you sick if your in there too much. Its happened to me when I tried heating with it thru athe winter. I'd go with Propane. Thanks, that's the kind of things I need to know. I have used a propane "mushroom heater" for many years. No electricity, just a 20 pound cylinder as a fuel source. LOTS of heat, right now. I was at Lowes' looking at some propane heaters and the oil radiators and just couldn't make up my mind. On the box of the propane heater I was looking at said, 20 hours +/- for a 20# tank. Does that sound about right? |
#25
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:07:06 -0600, Taunt
wrote: I'll check into it. I guessing I'd have to cut a hole for the exhaust, I don't know if I want to do that. ???? Do it, it's always worth the trouble. Two words: "Carbon Monoxide" Other useful words are "Oxygen Depletion" and "excessive moisture", but the first two should have gotten the message across. Only use a vented type heater in an occupied enclosed space, and make sure there's a path for makeup combustion air, no "Super-sealed" rooms. And check it at installation, and again every year or so, to make sure the burner is operating with a nice blue flame and that the stack is clear and drawing properly. Checking the draft can be as simple as lighting the heater, snuffing a match in front of the draft diverter, and watching the smoke trail. The life you save may be your own. "Dirt Naps" are forever. There's a very good reason why all permanent and portable non-vented space heaters are illegal in many places. The laws are usually written after a local tragedy. -- Bruce -- Graduate, So Cal Gas Co. "Appliance Service Clinic" training course. -- Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700 5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545 Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net. |
#26
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
"Taunt" wrote in message news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04... It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater. Pros and cons? Propane? Kerosene? Oil filled electric? TIA, Jack My garage is attached to the house, and it is 20 ft. by 20 ft. There is one large garage door, no windows and the only door is to get into the house. The ceiling is about 8 feet high. I put 6.5" fiberglass sheet insulation above the ceiling, except for the walk up ramp in the ceiling (like the one on Mork & Mindy). Last week, I borrowed an oil filled heater to test it. It is one of those with a 900 watt switch and a 600 watt switch for a total of 1,500 watts. The heater didn't list a BTU value, but other similar ones list 5,000 BTU's. They are around $50 MSRP. It was 52 degrees at 12AM, 54 degrees at 1AM and it only got up to 57 degrees by 3AM. It is just not good enough. I bought a $118 Wal-Mart kerosene heater this week. It is listed as 23,000 BTU's. It looks just like the ones at Lowe's and Home Depot, just less expensive. I am going to use it this week. For safety's sake first and keeping heat in the garage second, what tips would you guys recommend? I was planning to occasionally open the garage door about an inch for a short period of time, as well as open the door going into the house some as well. That would be in addition to going in for food, drink, etc. Would a ceiling fan help to properly disperse the heat? Several people said heat rises and stays up toward the ceiling, so I am wondering if that could be used to blow it back down toward the floor?? Thanks. |
#27
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
Rex B wrote in article ... knowone wrote: CHEAP: Vogelzang wood-burning, two barrel stove - tractor supply. Lots and lots of heat. $40.00 or so. I have something similar, though homemade and one barrel only. It is the primary heat for my 1000 sf shop, steel building. I feed it all the scrap wood I would not burn at home, plus shop waste paper, oily paper towels etc. Puts out lots of heat, but it does consume fuel and requires some attention. I'm looking at converting it to waste-oil. Question...... How does one shut a wood stove off after spilling gasoline - or similarly flammable liquid??? Even those little propane "mushroom" heaters glow for a bit after shutting them off - enough time to ignite vapors near the floor. I have a furnace shutoff at my up-to-code furnace at the front of the shop, AND on the main panel - which is on the way out the shop door near the rear of the shop. It is bad ebough to lose an entire shop due to stupidity and false economy, but when the insurance adjuster laughs in you face - rejecting your claim due to some Rube Goldberg setup - it is even worse. Used, up-to-code, serviceable hot-air furnaces are not hard to find. |
#28
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
The calc is 3.54 BTU's per watt. 1500 watts is 5300 BTU's per hour.
Pretty whimpy. Your new kerosene heater is around 4x more. Cracking the door "should" be good enough, you will still get fumes as well as the potential for CO. Name wrote: "Taunt" wrote in message news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04... It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater. Pros and cons? Propane? Kerosene? Oil filled electric? TIA, Jack My garage is attached to the house, and it is 20 ft. by 20 ft. There is one large garage door, no windows and the only door is to get into the house. The ceiling is about 8 feet high. I put 6.5" fiberglass sheet insulation above the ceiling, except for the walk up ramp in the ceiling (like the one on Mork & Mindy). Last week, I borrowed an oil filled heater to test it. It is one of those with a 900 watt switch and a 600 watt switch for a total of 1,500 watts. The heater didn't list a BTU value, but other similar ones list 5,000 BTU's. They are around $50 MSRP. It was 52 degrees at 12AM, 54 degrees at 1AM and it only got up to 57 degrees by 3AM. It is just not good enough. I bought a $118 Wal-Mart kerosene heater this week. It is listed as 23,000 BTU's. It looks just like the ones at Lowe's and Home Depot, just less expensive. I am going to use it this week. For safety's sake first and keeping heat in the garage second, what tips would you guys recommend? I was planning to occasionally open the garage door about an inch for a short period of time, as well as open the door going into the house some as well. That would be in addition to going in for food, drink, etc. Would a ceiling fan help to properly disperse the heat? Several people said heat rises and stays up toward the ceiling, so I am wondering if that could be used to blow it back down toward the floor?? Thanks. |
#29
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
There sure are a lot of neat posts on this subject here.
A couple of them have hinted at the condensation problem of unvented fossil fuel heaters, but it sounds like many of you have missed that point!!!!! You get LOTS of water!!!!! If you are trying to keep your machine tools from rusting in such an environment, forget it!!!! You are simply shooting yourself in the foot. I occasionally work long days in a guy's garage that has an overhead gas furnace. It gets up to 80 degrees 7 feet off the floor, but the floor can be 10 or 15 degree at times. So, personally, I use gas wall furnaces of the counterflow type. They are vented, suck air in at the top and blow it out at the bottom where it has a chance to heat the floor. They mount between 2 wall studs that are on standard 16 inch centers. If you get the direct vent model (as opposed to the top vent or chimney models), it vents out through the wall and uses outside air for combustion. As I get older, my biggest comfort problem is my lower legs, so that is where I want the heat. If what you really need is to keep the machine tools from rusting, you only need to keep those immediate areas from condensing water out of the air. I suggest that you cover each tool loosely with a plastic tarp and thoughtfully (safely) place a single light bulb under each tarp. It may only take 60 watts or so. All you need to do is to keep the tool a few degrees abouve the room ambient temperature to avoid the condensation. Waiting for new shop furnace to arrive as we speak, Pete Stanaitis (western Wisconsin) ---------------------------------------------------- Taunt wrote: It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater. Pros and cons? Propane? Kerosene? Oil filled electric? TIA, Jack |
#30
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
* wrote: Rex B wrote in article ... knowone wrote: CHEAP: Vogelzang wood-burning, two barrel stove - tractor supply. Lots and lots of heat. $40.00 or so. I have something similar, though homemade and one barrel only. It is the primary heat for my 1000 sf shop, steel building. I feed it all the scrap wood I would not burn at home, plus shop waste paper, oily paper towels etc. Puts out lots of heat, but it does consume fuel and requires some attention. I'm looking at converting it to waste-oil. Question...... How does one shut a wood stove off after spilling gasoline - or similarly flammable liquid??? Even those little propane "mushroom" heaters glow for a bit after shutting them off - enough time to ignite vapors near the floor. I have a furnace shutoff at my up-to-code furnace at the front of the shop, AND on the main panel - which is on the way out the shop door near the rear of the shop. It is bad ebough to lose an entire shop due to stupidity and false economy, but when the insurance adjuster laughs in you face - rejecting your claim due to some Rube Goldberg setup - it is even worse. Used, up-to-code, serviceable hot-air furnaces are not hard to find. Granted. I do not use this stove that often, and never when I'm dealing with flammable liquids or gases. My kerosene parts washer is in the opposite corner, and I don't use it when the stove is in use. I also have fire extinguishers all over the shop. Also, I noted earlier that I intend to convert it to waste oil, which would provide a shut-off capability. Daily use, attached garage? Never. This is a free-standing metal building, not near my home. |
#31
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
"RoyJ" wrote in message . net... The calc is 3.54 BTU's per watt. 1500 watts is 5300 BTU's per hour. Pretty whimpy. Your new kerosene heater is around 4x more. Cracking the door "should" be good enough, you will still get fumes as well as the potential for CO. Thank you for the conversion factor. Would cracking the attic door (the folding ladder type) let all the heat out too quick, or would that be a good way to vent the area?? Thanks. Name wrote: "Taunt" wrote in message news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04... It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater. Pros and cons? Propane? Kerosene? Oil filled electric? TIA, Jack My garage is attached to the house, and it is 20 ft. by 20 ft. There is one large garage door, no windows and the only door is to get into the house. The ceiling is about 8 feet high. I put 6.5" fiberglass sheet insulation above the ceiling, except for the walk up ramp in the ceiling (like the one on Mork & Mindy). Last week, I borrowed an oil filled heater to test it. It is one of those with a 900 watt switch and a 600 watt switch for a total of 1,500 watts. The heater didn't list a BTU value, but other similar ones list 5,000 BTU's. They are around $50 MSRP. It was 52 degrees at 12AM, 54 degrees at 1AM and it only got up to 57 degrees by 3AM. It is just not good enough. I bought a $118 Wal-Mart kerosene heater this week. It is listed as 23,000 BTU's. It looks just like the ones at Lowe's and Home Depot, just less expensive. I am going to use it this week. For safety's sake first and keeping heat in the garage second, what tips would you guys recommend? I was planning to occasionally open the garage door about an inch for a short period of time, as well as open the door going into the house some as well. That would be in addition to going in for food, drink, etc. Would a ceiling fan help to properly disperse the heat? Several people said heat rises and stays up toward the ceiling, so I am wondering if that could be used to blow it back down toward the floor?? Thanks. |
#32
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
Would those be available in Texas? We don't generally heat with fuel
oil. I presume one could use diesel and get reimbursed for the road taxes. - - Rex Burkheimer Fort Worth TX Pete Snell wrote: I've heated my 22'X 24' garage/workshop successfully with oil fired forced air furnace from a house trailer. It's small, easy to install and works great. I flip the switch when I walk in and it will go from -15°C to +10°C in about 20 minutes. Uses about $50 of stove oil a year for my irregular use. (few hours in the evening a couple of times a week.) My present unit was nearly new when I got it and it cost $400. The previous one was free but died after 4 years or so. Contact your local heating contractor, as they remove the tanks and furnaces from local Mobile homes and replace them with gas furnaces. |
#33
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 05:04:44 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote: ,;On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:07:06 -0600, Taunt ,;wrote: ,; ,;I'll check into it. I guessing I'd have to cut a hole for the exhaust, I ,;don't know if I want to do that. ???? ,; ,; Do it, it's always worth the trouble. Two words: "Carbon Monoxide" Two additional words not mentioned except by chemists...Sulfuric acid That compound added to propane (or natural gas) for odor detection is a sulfur compound. Guess what comes out with the exhaust gasses after combustion along with a hell of a lot of water. ,; ,; Other useful words are "Oxygen Depletion" and "excessive moisture", ,;but the first two should have gotten the message across. Only use a ,;vented type heater in an occupied enclosed space, and make sure ,;there's a path for makeup combustion air, no "Super-sealed" rooms. ,; ,; And check it at installation, and again every year or so, to make ,;sure the burner is operating with a nice blue flame and that the stack ,;is clear and drawing properly. Checking the draft can be as simple as ,;lighting the heater, snuffing a match in front of the draft diverter, ,;and watching the smoke trail. ,; ,; The life you save may be your own. "Dirt Naps" are forever. ,; ,; There's a very good reason why all permanent and portable non-vented ,;space heaters are illegal in many places. The laws are usually ,;written after a local tragedy. ,; ,; -- Bruce -- ,; ,; Graduate, So Cal Gas Co. "Appliance Service Clinic" training course. |
#34
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
First off - never use gasoline etc in a wood stove. It isn't needed.
2. Choke the air - damper in the exhaust pipe or air inlet if you have a port. If you get a stove pipe fire - you have to starve it of oxygen by shutting everything closed you can and wait it out. If you open the door then fire will spit out the pipe and you might have an explosion. Adding oil based fuel can increase the burn rate to a dangerous and explosive condition. Maritn Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder * wrote: Rex B wrote in article ... knowone wrote: CHEAP: Vogelzang wood-burning, two barrel stove - tractor supply. Lots and lots of heat. $40.00 or so. I have something similar, though homemade and one barrel only. It is the primary heat for my 1000 sf shop, steel building. I feed it all the scrap wood I would not burn at home, plus shop waste paper, oily paper towels etc. Puts out lots of heat, but it does consume fuel and requires some attention. I'm looking at converting it to waste-oil. Question...... How does one shut a wood stove off after spilling gasoline - or similarly flammable liquid??? Even those little propane "mushroom" heaters glow for a bit after shutting them off - enough time to ignite vapors near the floor. I have a furnace shutoff at my up-to-code furnace at the front of the shop, AND on the main panel - which is on the way out the shop door near the rear of the shop. It is bad ebough to lose an entire shop due to stupidity and false economy, but when the insurance adjuster laughs in you face - rejecting your claim due to some Rube Goldberg setup - it is even worse. Used, up-to-code, serviceable hot-air furnaces are not hard to find. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#35
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
In article 01c5fa73$dcda3c40$32a4c3d8@race,
"*" wrote: Rex B wrote in article ... knowone wrote: CHEAP: Vogelzang wood-burning, two barrel stove - tractor supply. Lots and lots of heat. $40.00 or so. I have something similar, though homemade and one barrel only. It is the primary heat for my 1000 sf shop, steel building. I feed it all the scrap wood I would not burn at home, plus shop waste paper, oily paper towels etc. Puts out lots of heat, but it does consume fuel and requires some attention. I'm looking at converting it to waste-oil. Question...... How does one shut a wood stove off after spilling gasoline - or similarly flammable liquid??? Don't use gasoline indoors. Use only kerosene. It won't be set off. One can put a lit match out in kerosene. Joe Gwinn |
#36
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:13:20 -0600, Rex B
wrote: Pete Snell wrote: I've heated my 22'X 24' garage/workshop successfully with oil fired forced air furnace from a house trailer. It's small, easy to install and works great. I flip the switch when I walk in and it will go from -15°C to +10°C in about 20 minutes. Uses about $50 of stove oil a year for my irregular use. (few hours in the evening a couple of times a week.) My present unit was nearly new when I got it and it cost $400. The previous one was free but died after 4 years or so. Contact your local heating contractor, as they remove the tanks and furnaces from local Mobile homes and replace them with gas furnaces. Would those be available in Texas? We don't generally heat with fuel oil. I presume one could use diesel and get reimbursed for the road taxes. No, you bring a few empty drums to the local fuel supplier and pick up (or call up and have them deliver) the dyed "Off-Road" diesel fuel sold for use in farm tractors and industrial equipment - no road taxes on that, and it runs just fine in oil burners. Lots of small industrial users here in California use it because 'fuel oil' is rarely used here, but off-road diesel is common. You'll remember this the next time you go to Disneyland - the Disneyland Railroad Steam Trains (steam-jet venturi burners) and the Mark Twain Steamboat (Beckett-style flame-retention burner, 120VAC from the diesel Onan genset hidden at the stern) are running on red diesel. If the local authorities suspect you are running off-road fuel in a road vehicle to evade taxes, they either look at the water separator bowl or draw a sample. The red dye will tell on you. -- Bruce -- -- Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700 5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545 Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net. |
#37
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
Joseph Gwinn wrote in article ... Don't use gasoline indoors. Use only kerosene. It won't be set off. One can put a lit match out in kerosene. Joe Gwinn Since the OP stated that he was looking to heat a "2 stall garage", it is reasonable to assume that it will be used to work on automobiles.... Automobiles - most of them - are fueled by gasoline.....carrying their supply in quantities of one-to-30 gallons..... Sometimes, a fuel line breaks or a gasoline spill occurs somehow - it is unavoidable when working with fuel systems..... So, in order to avoid having the gasoline indoors, you would suggest working on the car outdoors????? Or, perhaps, he should remove the gas tank outdoors before moving the car into the shop???? Maybe, he can specialize in diesels only?????? If that is the case, then what is the point of this entire thread, which is based upon heating a garage so someone can work inside it - in a heated space??????? I had a friend nearly lose his shop to a car fire that started when gasoline hit a drop light - in the middle of the summer!!!! |
#38
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:19:16 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote: On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:13:20 -0600, Rex B wrote: Pete Snell wrote: I've heated my 22'X 24' garage/workshop successfully with oil fired forced air furnace from a house trailer. It's small, easy to install and works great. I flip the switch when I walk in and it will go from -15°C to +10°C in about 20 minutes. Uses about $50 of stove oil a year for my irregular use. (few hours in the evening a couple of times a week.) My present unit was nearly new when I got it and it cost $400. The previous one was free but died after 4 years or so. Contact your local heating contractor, as they remove the tanks and furnaces from local Mobile homes and replace them with gas furnaces. Would those be available in Texas? We don't generally heat with fuel oil. I presume one could use diesel and get reimbursed for the road taxes. No, you bring a few empty drums to the local fuel supplier and pick up (or call up and have them deliver) the dyed "Off-Road" diesel fuel sold for use in farm tractors and industrial equipment - no road taxes on that, and it runs just fine in oil burners. Actually it's not that simple in Texas anymore. You do have to file for a permit or license (I forget what they call it). They changed it a while back probably because so many farmers cheat. You also don't want to burn it in a unvented heater. That dye definitely puts out some bad fumes. Lots of small industrial users here in California use it because 'fuel oil' is rarely used here, but off-road diesel is common. You'll remember this the next time you go to Disneyland - the Disneyland Railroad Steam Trains (steam-jet venturi burners) and the Mark Twain Steamboat (Beckett-style flame-retention burner, 120VAC from the diesel Onan genset hidden at the stern) are running on red diesel. If the local authorities suspect you are running off-road fuel in a road vehicle to evade taxes, they either look at the water separator bowl or draw a sample. The red dye will tell on you. Yep. They can tell if you run red diesel for a long time after that tank has burned up and green diesel ran in it. Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm |
#39
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
"Unknown" wrote in message ... On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 05:04:44 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman wrote: ,;On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:07:06 -0600, Taunt ,;wrote: ,; ,;I'll check into it. I guessing I'd have to cut a hole for the exhaust, I ,;don't know if I want to do that. ???? ,; ,; Do it, it's always worth the trouble. Two words: "Carbon Monoxide" Two additional words not mentioned except by chemists...Sulfuric acid That compound added to propane (or natural gas) for odor detection is a sulfur compound. Guess what comes out with the exhaust gasses after combustion along with a hell of a lot of water. ,; What's the worry? Ethyl mercaptan is added in _extremely_ small amounts to propane - the mercaptans are about the most fouls-smelling things there are, so you don't need a whole lot of it to make the point. What's more, they are heavier than propane and tend to sink to the bottom of the bottle, so the percentage of mercaptan you burn is even smaller than what is added (until you are at the very end of the tank). You'll probably re-fill it before that, as it smells, well, bad. |
#40
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Need to heat a 2 stall garage.
Joseph Gwinn wrote in article
... Don't use gasoline indoors. Use only kerosene. It won't be set off. One can put a lit match out in kerosene. Joe Gwinn Since the OP stated that he was looking to heat a "2 stall garage", it is reasonable to assume that it will be used to work on automobiles.... Since this is a metalworking NG, it's reasonable to assume the primary activity is machining. A lot of people nowadays do not work on their cars at all. Automobiles - most of them - are fueled by gasoline.....carrying their supply in quantities of one-to-30 gallons..... Sometimes, a fuel line breaks or a gasoline spill occurs somehow - it is unavoidable when working with fuel systems..... So, in order to avoid having the gasoline indoors, you would suggest working on the car outdoors????? No, but you can turn off the flame while the fuel system and fuel are open. My shop time is divided between race cars and metalworking machines. I'm pretty careful about when I do what, with regard to the wood-burning stove I use for heat. Any reasonably cautious person can deal with that. |
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