It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater.

Pros and cons?

Propane?
Kerosene?
Oil filled electric?

TIA, Jack

What kind of lights do you have?
A couple of 500W halogen worklights over the work area put out quite a
bit of radiant heat.

- -
Rex Burkheimer
Fort Worth TX

Taunt wrote:
It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater.

Pros and cons?

Propane?
Kerosene?
Oil filled electric?

TIA, Jack

Jack:
I just went through this in my 20' x20' single door detached garage,
that I share with the lawn furniture. I have drywalled the ceiling its
about 7'6". There is kind of an attic up there and I added minimal
insulation. I just bought a "contactors 240V 3000/4000 watts 16 amps
electric heater from Grainger for $115 or so. Has to run most of time
in cold weather to keep it warm. I'll eventually find a ng vented unit
to place on the ceiling in the corner. Gas would be more efficient in
the long run. I was concerned about the change in temp causing my lathe
and mill to condense moisture and rust. Anyway, that size unit seems to
do the trick for me. I looked at infrared unit about the same wattage,
but figured the head clearance was insufficient. Still might add an
110v infrared, because my 240 is maxed out a 16 amps. Got an extra 110v
I can spare. Good Luck,
Mike

Venting is important, because moisture is a by-product of any of the
gases burning.

mlcorson wrote:
Jack:
I just went through this in my 20' x20' single door detached garage,
that I share with the lawn furniture. I have drywalled the ceiling its
about 7'6". There is kind of an attic up there and I added minimal
insulation. I just bought a "contactors 240V 3000/4000 watts 16 amps
electric heater from Grainger for $115 or so. Has to run most of time
in cold weather to keep it warm. I'll eventually find a ng vented unit
to place on the ceiling in the corner. Gas would be more efficient in
the long run. I was concerned about the change in temp causing my lathe
and mill to condense moisture and rust. Anyway, that size unit seems to
do the trick for me. I looked at infrared unit about the same wattage,
but figured the head clearance was insufficient. Still might add an
110v infrared, because my 240 is maxed out a 16 amps. Got an extra 110v
I can spare. Good Luck,
Mike

Venting is important, because moisture is a by-product of any of the
gases burning.


Mike,

Thanks, I hadn't thought about the moisture problem.
Ron, a friend of mine, uses a 110v oil heater (radiator) in a one stall
garage and it seems to work OK (just ok). I need to call and ask him
about his electric bill when using it.

I thought I'd ask the group before buying.

Thanks, Jack

P.S. The cold season around here doesn't last too long. Last night it
got down to 20 degrees with a high today of 37 degrees. I quess I could
dress warmer...........

Kerosene will make you sick if your in there too much. Its happened to
me when I tried heating with it thru athe winter. I'd go with Propane.

Rex B wrote:
What kind of lights do you have?
A couple of 500W halogen worklights over the work area put out quite a
bit of radiant heat.

- -
Rex Burkheimer
Fort Worth TX

Taunt wrote:

It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater.

Pros and cons?

Propane?
Kerosene?
Oil filled electric?

TIA, Jack
Rex,

I do need to buy some more lighting. I'm just using the 100watt bulb in
the ceiling and 60watt halagen machine lamps for my workbenches.

Thanks, Jack

wrote:
Kerosene will make you sick if your in there too much. Its happened to
me when I tried heating with it thru athe winter. I'd go with Propane.

Thanks, that's the kind of things I need to know.

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:11:54 -0600, Taunt wrote:
wrote:
Kerosene will make you sick if your in there too much. Its happened to
me when I tried heating with it thru athe winter. I'd go with Propane.

Thanks, that's the kind of things I need to know.

I have used a propane "mushroom heater" for many years. No electricity,
just a 20 pound cylinder as a fuel source. LOTS of heat, right now.

CHEAP: Vogelzang wood-burning, two barrel stove - tractor supply. Lots and
lots of heat. $40.00 or so.



"Taunt" wrote in message
news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04...
It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater.

Pros and cons?

Propane?
Kerosene?
Oil filled electric?

TIA, Jack

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:11:54 -0600, Taunt wrote:

wrote:

Kerosene will make you sick if your in there too much. Its happened to
me when I tried heating with it thru athe winter. I'd go with Propane.


Thanks, that's the kind of things I need to know.


I have used a propane "mushroom heater" for many years. No electricity,
just a 20 pound cylinder as a fuel source. LOTS of heat, right now.


Come to think of it, I do use one of those $40 heads from HF that
attaches to my propane tank. It's about time to dig that out. For no
bigger than it is, it does produce good usable heat almost immediately,
and a propane tank lasts quite a long time.
It's a bit too localized for my shop (steel building, high ceiling,
but it knocks the chill off till the woodstove catches up.

Rex

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:05:46 -0600, Taunt
wrote:

mlcorson wrote:
Jack:
I just went through this in my 20' x20' single door detached garage,
that I share with the lawn furniture. I have drywalled the ceiling its
about 7'6". There is kind of an attic up there and I added minimal
insulation. I just bought a "contactors 240V 3000/4000 watts 16 amps
electric heater from Grainger for $115 or so. Has to run most of time
in cold weather to keep it warm. I'll eventually find a ng vented unit
to place on the ceiling in the corner. Gas would be more efficient in
the long run. I was concerned about the change in temp causing my lathe
and mill to condense moisture and rust. Anyway, that size unit seems to
do the trick for me. I looked at infrared unit about the same wattage,
but figured the head clearance was insufficient. Still might add an
110v infrared, because my 240 is maxed out a 16 amps. Got an extra 110v
I can spare. Good Luck,
Mike

Venting is important, because moisture is a by-product of any of the
gases burning.


Mike,

Thanks, I hadn't thought about the moisture problem.
Ron, a friend of mine, uses a 110v oil heater (radiator) in a one stall
garage and it seems to work OK (just ok). I need to call and ask him
about his electric bill when using it.

I thought I'd ask the group before buying.

Thanks, Jack

P.S. The cold season around here doesn't last too long. Last night it
got down to 20 degrees with a high today of 37 degrees. I quess I could
dress warmer...........

If you can spare the space..a couple fans and a waste oil heater works
pretty well. All you need to do is keep the heat off the ceiling and
moving down towards the floor.

And its a fun project.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

knowone wrote:
CHEAP: Vogelzang wood-burning, two barrel stove - tractor supply. Lots and
lots of heat. $40.00 or so.

I have something similar, though homemade and one barrel only. It is the
primary heat for my 1000 sf shop, steel building. I feed it all the
scrap wood I would not burn at home, plus shop waste paper, oily paper
towels etc. Puts out lots of heat, but it does consume fuel and
requires some attention. I'm looking at converting it to waste-oil.

The double-barrel option looks interesting, as I lose a lot of heat out
the stack. Hmmmmm

I'm wondering if this thing is going to burn out someday.
So far it's still solid, going on 5 or more seasons.

Rex

"Rex B" wrote: (clip) A couple of 500W halogen worklights over the work
area put out quite a bit of radiant heat.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yep. Total energy added to the room is 1 kw. But, at the current cost of
electricity (and expected to go up) that can add substantially to your
electric bill. Whatever form of heat you end up getting, consider this
also: most garages have no ceiling, so the heat rises, and it takes a lot
extra before you get any benefit down where you are standing. If this is
true of your shop, you could get a lot of benefit by installing any kind of
fan that pulls air downward toward the floor. I have seen people use a
vertical duct taking suction at the top and discharging near the floor.

I use two types of propane heater, the use of either depending on how cold
it is. I have a "Mr. Heater" that sits on top of a propane tank and heats
locally. I use this most of the time. I just move it around in back of
where I'm standing - it gives about a six foot by six foot area of
toastiness. I also have a heater that looks and sounds a little like a jet
engine that heats a larger area, but is noisy and has an odor that's not
horrible but is noticeable. I use this to take the edge off the chill when
it's pretty cold out and will often use this before firing up the smaller
heater.

Keep in mind I live in San Francisco so my idea of cold in temperature in
the forties. I also have a very small shop - about two hundred square feet
with a ceiling about ten feet high. Having said that, I used the Mr. Heater
when my shop was a thousand square feet with thirty foot ceilings and it
still worked well for localized heating.

Peter


"Taunt" wrote in message
news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04...
It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater.

Pros and cons?

Propane?
Kerosene?
Oil filled electric?

TIA, Jack

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:20:12 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Rex B" wrote: (clip) A couple of 500W halogen worklights over the work
area put out quite a bit of radiant heat.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yep. Total energy added to the room is 1 kw. But, at the current cost of
electricity (and expected to go up) that can add substantially to your
electric bill. Whatever form of heat you end up getting, consider this
also: most garages have no ceiling, so the heat rises, and it takes a lot
extra before you get any benefit down where you are standing. If this is
true of your shop, you could get a lot of benefit by installing any kind of
fan that pulls air downward toward the floor. I have seen people use a
vertical duct taking suction at the top and discharging near the floor.


Ive made several of these, of various sizes, using black or blue PVC
pipe, and a couple muffin fans from computer equipment. Sucks it in at
the top, and blows it out at the bottom from various ports. The
bigger the pipe the better, along with as much suck as you can get. I
even made one up for the RV I live in during the week. Its only a 6'
ceiling..but really really makes a difference when it gets cold
outside. Not much insulation in an old travel trailer.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Rex B" wrote: (clip) A couple of 500W halogen worklights over the work
area put out quite a bit of radiant heat.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yep. Total energy added to the room is 1 kw. But, at the current cost of
electricity (and expected to go up) that can add substantially to your
electric bill. Whatever form of heat you end up getting, consider this
also: most garages have no ceiling, so the heat rises, and it takes a lot
extra before you get any benefit down where you are standing. If this is
true of your shop, you could get a lot of benefit by installing any kind of
fan that pulls air downward toward the floor. I have seen people use a
vertical duct taking suction at the top and discharging near the floor.


My garage is fully finished out (walls and ceiling).

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:05:46 -0600, Taunt
wrote:


mlcorson wrote:

Jack:
I just went through this in my 20' x20' single door detached garage,
that I share with the lawn furniture. I have drywalled the ceiling its
about 7'6". There is kind of an attic up there and I added minimal
insulation. I just bought a "contactors 240V 3000/4000 watts 16 amps
electric heater from Grainger for $115 or so. Has to run most of time
in cold weather to keep it warm. I'll eventually find a ng vented unit
to place on the ceiling in the corner. Gas would be more efficient in
the long run. I was concerned about the change in temp causing my lathe
and mill to condense moisture and rust. Anyway, that size unit seems to
do the trick for me. I looked at infrared unit about the same wattage,
but figured the head clearance was insufficient. Still might add an
110v infrared, because my 240 is maxed out a 16 amps. Got an extra 110v
I can spare. Good Luck,
Mike

Venting is important, because moisture is a by-product of any of the
gases burning.


Mike,

Thanks, I hadn't thought about the moisture problem.
Ron, a friend of mine, uses a 110v oil heater (radiator) in a one stall
garage and it seems to work OK (just ok). I need to call and ask him
about his electric bill when using it.

I thought I'd ask the group before buying.

Thanks, Jack

P.S. The cold season around here doesn't last too long. Last night it
got down to 20 degrees with a high today of 37 degrees. I quess I could
dress warmer...........


If you can spare the space..a couple fans and a waste oil heater works
pretty well. All you need to do is keep the heat off the ceiling and
moving down towards the floor.

And its a fun project.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Gunner,

It sounds like a good project but, I don't have any waste oil right now.
I'm going to look into it as a project for next year.

Thanks, Jack

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:11:54 -0600, Taunt wrote:

wrote:

Kerosene will make you sick if your in there too much. Its happened to
me when I tried heating with it thru athe winter. I'd go with Propane.


Thanks, that's the kind of things I need to know.


I have used a propane "mushroom heater" for many years. No electricity,
just a 20 pound cylinder as a fuel source. LOTS of heat, right now.


I was at Lowes' looking at some propane heaters and the oil radiators
and just couldn't make up my mind. On the box of the propane heater I
was looking at said, 20 hours +/- for a 20# tank. Does that sound about
right?

knowone wrote:
CHEAP: Vogelzang wood-burning, two barrel stove - tractor supply. Lots and
lots of heat. $40.00 or so.



"Taunt" wrote in message
news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04...

It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater.

Pros and cons?

Propane?
Kerosene?
Oil filled electric?

TIA, Jack




I'll check into it. I guessing I'd have to cut a hole for the exhaust, I
don't know if I want to do that. ????

Thanks

Peter Grey wrote:
I use two types of propane heater, the use of either depending on how cold
it is. I have a "Mr. Heater" that sits on top of a propane tank and heats
locally. I use this most of the time. I just move it around in back of
where I'm standing - it gives about a six foot by six foot area of
toastiness. I also have a heater that looks and sounds a little like a jet
engine that heats a larger area, but is noisy and has an odor that's not
horrible but is noticeable. I use this to take the edge off the chill when
it's pretty cold out and will often use this before firing up the smaller
heater.

Keep in mind I live in San Francisco so my idea of cold in temperature in
the forties. I also have a very small shop - about two hundred square feet
with a ceiling about ten feet high. Having said that, I used the Mr. Heater
when my shop was a thousand square feet with thirty foot ceilings and it
still worked well for localized heating.

Peter


"Taunt" wrote in message
news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04...

It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater.

Pros and cons?

Propane?
Kerosene?
Oil filled electric?

TIA, Jack



Peter,

I am looking at the Mr. heater line of heaters.

Living in Oklahoma, it doesn't stay cold for very long.

Thanks, Jack

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:15:00 -0600, Taunt
wrote:


I am looking at the Mr. heater line of heaters.

Living in Oklahoma, it doesn't stay cold for very long.


No but when it gets cold it's COLD. The Mr. Heater is great for
small area heating and portability. I've got one which I will drag out
for the really cold days especially when I'm not able to fully close
my shop door. Most of my shop heat is produced by my used oil fired
stove where I can burn wood and clean burning trash as well. Here's
some pics.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/...k/newstuff.htm

Scroll down a little for the stove.

My current high priority personal project is my used oil hauling
trailer. It's got a 250gal propane tank and I'm going to use a old
Roots blower for a vacuum pump to suck the oil up in it. I've been
working to hard on it to take pictures yet. With the cold spell coming
this week and my low supply of oil it's been a fairly high priority. I
figure I'll be out of oil in a couple of weeks and I'd rather not have
to drag the old electric pump and 55 gallon barrels out to get some
more.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

"Taunt" wrote in message
news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04...
| It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater.
|
| Pros and cons?
|
| Propane?
| Kerosene?
| Oil filled electric?
|
| TIA, Jack

I have a couple 20# bottles and one of those Coleman radiant heaters
that sits on top of one. Crack the garage door a bit and light it up on
max. When it's near freezing it keeps me toasty inside, but the heat leaves
quickly if I have to open the door. The advantage for me is portability.
Near the end of soccer season the weather turns to **** and I bring the
heater out on the field for the parents/kids to warm up with. Now if
someone will bring a shelter or something to break the wind, it would be
almost like home!
I also put some of that Styrofoam with the Mylar lining inside my metal
garage door. Cut to fit and glued it all in. Makes it brighter inside and
works wonders for keeping condensation down and avoiding the massive heat
loss. Back the heater up to the door and the whole garage gets nice. If I
got another heater for my other bottle I'd roast myself out of there, which
would feel really nice sometimes!

I wired up a dimmer switch to the fan on mine, so I can lower the
flame and the fan speed for a low-heat setting.
Larry

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:38:30 GMT, "Peter Grey"
wrote:

I use two types of propane heater,
snip
I also have a heater that looks and sounds a little like a jet
engine that heats a larger area, but is noisy and has an odor that's not
horrible but is noticeable.


Keep in mind I live in San Francisco so my idea of cold in temperature in
the forties. I also have a very small shop - about two hundred square feet
with a ceiling about ten feet high. Having said that, I used the Mr. Heater
when my shop was a thousand square feet with thirty foot ceilings and it
still worked well for localized heating.

Peter


"Taunt" wrote in message
news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04...
It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater.

Pros and cons?

Propane?
Kerosene?
Oil filled electric?

TIA, Jack

If you get 20 hours on 20 pounds that is about 15000 btu per hour. It
will keep your butt warm but not too much else.

Taunt wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:11:54 -0600, Taunt wrote:

wrote:

Kerosene will make you sick if your in there too much. Its happened to
me when I tried heating with it thru athe winter. I'd go with Propane.


Thanks, that's the kind of things I need to know.



I have used a propane "mushroom heater" for many years. No electricity,
just a 20 pound cylinder as a fuel source. LOTS of heat, right now.


I was at Lowes' looking at some propane heaters and the oil radiators
and just couldn't make up my mind. On the box of the propane heater I
was looking at said, 20 hours +/- for a 20# tank. Does that sound about
right?

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:07:06 -0600, Taunt
wrote:

I'll check into it. I guessing I'd have to cut a hole for the exhaust, I
don't know if I want to do that. ????

Do it, it's always worth the trouble. Two words: "Carbon Monoxide"

Other useful words are "Oxygen Depletion" and "excessive moisture",
but the first two should have gotten the message across. Only use a
vented type heater in an occupied enclosed space, and make sure
there's a path for makeup combustion air, no "Super-sealed" rooms.

And check it at installation, and again every year or so, to make
sure the burner is operating with a nice blue flame and that the stack
is clear and drawing properly. Checking the draft can be as simple as
lighting the heater, snuffing a match in front of the draft diverter,
and watching the smoke trail.

The life you save may be your own. "Dirt Naps" are forever.

There's a very good reason why all permanent and portable non-vented
space heaters are illegal in many places. The laws are usually
written after a local tragedy.

-- Bruce --

Graduate, So Cal Gas Co. "Appliance Service Clinic" training course.
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

"Taunt" wrote in message
news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04...
It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater.

Pros and cons?

Propane?
Kerosene?
Oil filled electric?

TIA, Jack

My garage is attached to the house, and it is 20 ft. by 20 ft. There is
one large garage door, no windows and the only door is to get into the
house. The ceiling is about 8 feet high. I put 6.5" fiberglass sheet
insulation above the ceiling, except for the walk up ramp in the ceiling
(like the one on Mork & Mindy).
Last week, I borrowed an oil filled heater to test it. It is one of
those with a 900 watt switch and a 600 watt switch for a total of 1,500
watts. The heater didn't list a BTU value, but other similar ones list
5,000 BTU's. They are around $50 MSRP. It was 52 degrees at 12AM, 54
degrees at 1AM and it only got up to 57 degrees by 3AM. It is just not good
enough.
I bought a $118 Wal-Mart kerosene heater this week. It is listed as
23,000 BTU's. It looks just like the ones at Lowe's and Home Depot, just
less expensive. I am going to use it this week. For safety's sake first
and keeping heat in the garage second, what tips would you guys recommend?
I was planning to occasionally open the garage door about an inch for a
short period of time, as well as open the door going into the house some as
well. That would be in addition to going in for food, drink, etc. Would a
ceiling fan help to properly disperse the heat? Several people said heat
rises and stays up toward the ceiling, so I am wondering if that could be
used to blow it back down toward the floor??

Thanks.

Rex B wrote in article
...
knowone wrote:
CHEAP: Vogelzang wood-burning, two barrel stove - tractor supply.
Lots and
lots of heat. $40.00 or so.

I have something similar, though homemade and one barrel only. It is the
primary heat for my 1000 sf shop, steel building. I feed it all the
scrap wood I would not burn at home, plus shop waste paper, oily paper
towels etc. Puts out lots of heat, but it does consume fuel and
requires some attention. I'm looking at converting it to waste-oil.

Question......

How does one shut a wood stove off after spilling gasoline - or similarly
flammable liquid???

Even those little propane "mushroom" heaters glow for a bit after shutting
them off - enough time to ignite vapors near the floor.

I have a furnace shutoff at my up-to-code furnace at the front of the shop,
AND on the main panel - which is on the way out the shop door near the rear
of the shop.

It is bad ebough to lose an entire shop due to stupidity and false economy,
but when the insurance adjuster laughs in you face - rejecting your claim
due to some Rube Goldberg setup - it is even worse.

Used, up-to-code, serviceable hot-air furnaces are not hard to find.

The calc is 3.54 BTU's per watt. 1500 watts is 5300 BTU's per hour.
Pretty whimpy. Your new kerosene heater is around 4x more.

Cracking the door "should" be good enough, you will still get fumes as
well as the potential for CO.

Name wrote:
"Taunt" wrote in message
news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04...

It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater.

Pros and cons?

Propane?
Kerosene?
Oil filled electric?

TIA, Jack


My garage is attached to the house, and it is 20 ft. by 20 ft. There is
one large garage door, no windows and the only door is to get into the
house. The ceiling is about 8 feet high. I put 6.5" fiberglass sheet
insulation above the ceiling, except for the walk up ramp in the ceiling
(like the one on Mork & Mindy).
Last week, I borrowed an oil filled heater to test it. It is one of
those with a 900 watt switch and a 600 watt switch for a total of 1,500
watts. The heater didn't list a BTU value, but other similar ones list
5,000 BTU's. They are around $50 MSRP. It was 52 degrees at 12AM, 54
degrees at 1AM and it only got up to 57 degrees by 3AM. It is just not good
enough.
I bought a $118 Wal-Mart kerosene heater this week. It is listed as
23,000 BTU's. It looks just like the ones at Lowe's and Home Depot, just
less expensive. I am going to use it this week. For safety's sake first
and keeping heat in the garage second, what tips would you guys recommend?
I was planning to occasionally open the garage door about an inch for a
short period of time, as well as open the door going into the house some as
well. That would be in addition to going in for food, drink, etc. Would a
ceiling fan help to properly disperse the heat? Several people said heat
rises and stays up toward the ceiling, so I am wondering if that could be
used to blow it back down toward the floor??

Thanks.

There sure are a lot of neat posts on this subject here.
A couple of them have hinted at the condensation problem of unvented
fossil fuel heaters, but it sounds like many of you have missed that
point!!!!!
You get LOTS of water!!!!! If you are trying to keep your machine
tools from rusting in such an environment, forget it!!!! You are simply
shooting yourself in the foot.
I occasionally work long days in a guy's garage that has an overhead
gas furnace. It gets up to 80 degrees 7 feet off the floor, but the
floor can be 10 or 15 degree at times. So, personally, I use gas wall
furnaces of the counterflow type. They are vented, suck air in at the
top and blow it out at the bottom where it has a chance to heat the
floor. They mount between 2 wall studs that are on standard 16 inch
centers. If you get the direct vent model (as opposed to the top vent
or chimney models), it vents out through the wall and uses outside air
for combustion.
As I get older, my biggest comfort problem is my lower legs, so
that is where I want the heat.

If what you really need is to keep the machine tools from rusting, you
only need to keep those immediate areas from condensing water out of the
air. I suggest that you cover each tool loosely with a plastic tarp and
thoughtfully (safely) place a single light bulb under each tarp. It may
only take 60 watts or so. All you need to do is to keep the tool a few
degrees abouve the room ambient temperature to avoid the condensation.

Waiting for new shop furnace to arrive as we speak,
Pete Stanaitis (western Wisconsin)
----------------------------------------------------
Taunt wrote:

It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater.

Pros and cons?

Propane?
Kerosene?
Oil filled electric?

TIA, Jack

* wrote:
Rex B wrote in article
...

knowone wrote:

CHEAP: Vogelzang wood-burning, two barrel stove - tractor supply.

Lots and

lots of heat. $40.00 or so.

I have something similar, though homemade and one barrel only. It is the
primary heat for my 1000 sf shop, steel building. I feed it all the
scrap wood I would not burn at home, plus shop waste paper, oily paper
towels etc. Puts out lots of heat, but it does consume fuel and
requires some attention. I'm looking at converting it to waste-oil.


Question......

How does one shut a wood stove off after spilling gasoline - or similarly
flammable liquid???

Even those little propane "mushroom" heaters glow for a bit after shutting
them off - enough time to ignite vapors near the floor.

I have a furnace shutoff at my up-to-code furnace at the front of the shop,
AND on the main panel - which is on the way out the shop door near the rear
of the shop.

It is bad ebough to lose an entire shop due to stupidity and false economy,
but when the insurance adjuster laughs in you face - rejecting your claim
due to some Rube Goldberg setup - it is even worse.

Used, up-to-code, serviceable hot-air furnaces are not hard to find.

Granted. I do not use this stove that often, and never when I'm dealing
with flammable liquids or gases. My kerosene parts washer is in the
opposite corner, and I don't use it when the stove is in use. I also
have fire extinguishers all over the shop. Also, I noted earlier that I
intend to convert it to waste oil, which would provide a shut-off
capability.
Daily use, attached garage? Never.
This is a free-standing metal building, not near my home.

"RoyJ" wrote in message
. net...
The calc is 3.54 BTU's per watt. 1500 watts is 5300 BTU's per hour.
Pretty whimpy. Your new kerosene heater is around 4x more.

Cracking the door "should" be good enough, you will still get fumes as
well as the potential for CO.

Thank you for the conversion factor.

Would cracking the attic door (the folding ladder type) let all the heat out
too quick, or would that be a good way to vent the area??

Thanks.






Name wrote:
"Taunt" wrote in message
news:OW1lf.3899$fz5.901@dukeread04...

It's getting a little chilli in the garage and need to buy a heater.

Pros and cons?

Propane?
Kerosene?
Oil filled electric?

TIA, Jack


My garage is attached to the house, and it is 20 ft. by 20 ft.
There is
one large garage door, no windows and the only door is to get into the
house. The ceiling is about 8 feet high. I put 6.5" fiberglass sheet
insulation above the ceiling, except for the walk up ramp in the ceiling
(like the one on Mork & Mindy).
Last week, I borrowed an oil filled heater to test it. It is one of
those with a 900 watt switch and a 600 watt switch for a total of 1,500
watts. The heater didn't list a BTU value, but other similar ones list
5,000 BTU's. They are around $50 MSRP. It was 52 degrees at 12AM, 54
degrees at 1AM and it only got up to 57 degrees by 3AM. It is just not
good
enough.
I bought a $118 Wal-Mart kerosene heater this week. It is listed as
23,000 BTU's. It looks just like the ones at Lowe's and Home Depot,
just
less expensive. I am going to use it this week. For safety's sake
first
and keeping heat in the garage second, what tips would you guys
recommend?
I was planning to occasionally open the garage door about an inch for a
short period of time, as well as open the door going into the house some
as
well. That would be in addition to going in for food, drink, etc.
Would a
ceiling fan help to properly disperse the heat? Several people said
heat
rises and stays up toward the ceiling, so I am wondering if that could
be
used to blow it back down toward the floor??

Thanks.

Would those be available in Texas? We don't generally heat with fuel
oil. I presume one could use diesel and get reimbursed for the road taxes.

- -
Rex Burkheimer
Fort Worth TX

Pete Snell wrote:
I've heated my 22'X 24' garage/workshop successfully with oil fired
forced air furnace from a house trailer. It's small, easy to install and
works great. I flip the switch when I walk in and it will go from -15°C
to +10°C in about 20 minutes. Uses about $50 of stove oil a year for my
irregular use. (few hours in the evening a couple of times a week.) My
present unit was nearly new when I got it and it cost $400. The previous
one was free but died after 4 years or so. Contact your local heating
contractor, as they remove the tanks and furnaces from local Mobile
homes and replace them with gas furnaces.

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 05:04:44 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

,;On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:07:06 -0600, Taunt
,;wrote:
,;
,;I'll check into it. I guessing I'd have to cut a hole for the exhaust, I
,;don't know if I want to do that. ????
,;
,; Do it, it's always worth the trouble. Two words: "Carbon Monoxide"

Two additional words not mentioned except by chemists...Sulfuric acid

That compound added to propane (or natural gas) for odor detection is
a sulfur compound. Guess what comes out with the exhaust gasses after
combustion along with a hell of a lot of water.
,;
,; Other useful words are "Oxygen Depletion" and "excessive moisture",
,;but the first two should have gotten the message across. Only use a
,;vented type heater in an occupied enclosed space, and make sure
,;there's a path for makeup combustion air, no "Super-sealed" rooms.
,;
,; And check it at installation, and again every year or so, to make
,;sure the burner is operating with a nice blue flame and that the stack
,;is clear and drawing properly. Checking the draft can be as simple as
,;lighting the heater, snuffing a match in front of the draft diverter,
,;and watching the smoke trail.
,;
,; The life you save may be your own. "Dirt Naps" are forever.
,;
,; There's a very good reason why all permanent and portable non-vented
,;space heaters are illegal in many places. The laws are usually
,;written after a local tragedy.
,;
,; -- Bruce --
,;
,; Graduate, So Cal Gas Co. "Appliance Service Clinic" training course.

First off - never use gasoline etc in a wood stove. It isn't needed.
2. Choke the air - damper in the exhaust pipe or air inlet if you have a port.

If you get a stove pipe fire - you have to starve it of oxygen by shutting
everything closed you can and wait it out. If you open the door then
fire will spit out the pipe and you might have an explosion.

Adding oil based fuel can increase the burn rate to a dangerous and explosive condition.

Maritn

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



* wrote:
Rex B wrote in article
...

knowone wrote:

CHEAP: Vogelzang wood-burning, two barrel stove - tractor supply.

Lots and

lots of heat. $40.00 or so.

I have something similar, though homemade and one barrel only. It is the
primary heat for my 1000 sf shop, steel building. I feed it all the
scrap wood I would not burn at home, plus shop waste paper, oily paper
towels etc. Puts out lots of heat, but it does consume fuel and
requires some attention. I'm looking at converting it to waste-oil.


Question......

How does one shut a wood stove off after spilling gasoline - or similarly
flammable liquid???

Even those little propane "mushroom" heaters glow for a bit after shutting
them off - enough time to ignite vapors near the floor.

I have a furnace shutoff at my up-to-code furnace at the front of the shop,
AND on the main panel - which is on the way out the shop door near the rear
of the shop.

It is bad ebough to lose an entire shop due to stupidity and false economy,
but when the insurance adjuster laughs in you face - rejecting your claim
due to some Rube Goldberg setup - it is even worse.

Used, up-to-code, serviceable hot-air furnaces are not hard to find.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

In article 01c5fa73$dcda3c40$32a4c3d8@race,
"*" wrote:

Rex B wrote in article
...
knowone wrote:
CHEAP: Vogelzang wood-burning, two barrel stove - tractor supply.
Lots and
lots of heat. $40.00 or so.

I have something similar, though homemade and one barrel only. It is the
primary heat for my 1000 sf shop, steel building. I feed it all the
scrap wood I would not burn at home, plus shop waste paper, oily paper
towels etc. Puts out lots of heat, but it does consume fuel and
requires some attention. I'm looking at converting it to waste-oil.

Question......

How does one shut a wood stove off after spilling gasoline - or similarly
flammable liquid???

Don't use gasoline indoors. Use only kerosene. It won't be set off.
One can put a lit match out in kerosene.

Joe Gwinn

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:13:20 -0600, Rex B
wrote:
Pete Snell wrote:

I've heated my 22'X 24' garage/workshop successfully with oil fired
forced air furnace from a house trailer. It's small, easy to install and
works great. I flip the switch when I walk in and it will go from -15°C
to +10°C in about 20 minutes. Uses about $50 of stove oil a year for my
irregular use. (few hours in the evening a couple of times a week.) My
present unit was nearly new when I got it and it cost $400. The previous
one was free but died after 4 years or so. Contact your local heating
contractor, as they remove the tanks and furnaces from local Mobile
homes and replace them with gas furnaces.

Would those be available in Texas? We don't generally heat with fuel
oil. I presume one could use diesel and get reimbursed for the road taxes.

No, you bring a few empty drums to the local fuel supplier and pick
up (or call up and have them deliver) the dyed "Off-Road" diesel fuel
sold for use in farm tractors and industrial equipment - no road taxes
on that, and it runs just fine in oil burners.

Lots of small industrial users here in California use it because
'fuel oil' is rarely used here, but off-road diesel is common. You'll
remember this the next time you go to Disneyland - the Disneyland
Railroad Steam Trains (steam-jet venturi burners) and the Mark Twain
Steamboat (Beckett-style flame-retention burner, 120VAC from the
diesel Onan genset hidden at the stern) are running on red diesel.

If the local authorities suspect you are running off-road fuel in a
road vehicle to evade taxes, they either look at the water separator
bowl or draw a sample. The red dye will tell on you.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Joseph Gwinn wrote in article
...


Don't use gasoline indoors. Use only kerosene. It won't be set off.
One can put a lit match out in kerosene.

Joe Gwinn



Since the OP stated that he was looking to heat a "2 stall garage", it is
reasonable to assume that it will be used to work on automobiles....

Automobiles - most of them - are fueled by gasoline.....carrying their
supply in quantities of one-to-30 gallons.....

Sometimes, a fuel line breaks or a gasoline spill occurs somehow - it is
unavoidable when working with fuel systems.....

So, in order to avoid having the gasoline indoors, you would suggest
working on the car outdoors?????

Or, perhaps, he should remove the gas tank outdoors before moving the car
into the shop????

Maybe, he can specialize in diesels only??????

If that is the case, then what is the point of this entire thread, which is
based upon heating a garage so someone can work inside it - in a heated
space???????

I had a friend nearly lose his shop to a car fire that started when
gasoline hit a drop light - in the middle of the summer!!!!

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:19:16 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:13:20 -0600, Rex B
wrote:
Pete Snell wrote:

I've heated my 22'X 24' garage/workshop successfully with oil fired
forced air furnace from a house trailer. It's small, easy to install and
works great. I flip the switch when I walk in and it will go from -15°C
to +10°C in about 20 minutes. Uses about $50 of stove oil a year for my
irregular use. (few hours in the evening a couple of times a week.) My
present unit was nearly new when I got it and it cost $400. The previous
one was free but died after 4 years or so. Contact your local heating
contractor, as they remove the tanks and furnaces from local Mobile
homes and replace them with gas furnaces.

Would those be available in Texas? We don't generally heat with fuel
oil. I presume one could use diesel and get reimbursed for the road taxes.

No, you bring a few empty drums to the local fuel supplier and pick
up (or call up and have them deliver) the dyed "Off-Road" diesel fuel
sold for use in farm tractors and industrial equipment - no road taxes
on that, and it runs just fine in oil burners.

Actually it's not that simple in Texas anymore. You do have to file
for a permit or license (I forget what they call it). They changed it
a while back probably because so many farmers cheat. You also don't
want to burn it in a unvented heater. That dye definitely puts out
some bad fumes.

Lots of small industrial users here in California use it because
'fuel oil' is rarely used here, but off-road diesel is common. You'll
remember this the next time you go to Disneyland - the Disneyland
Railroad Steam Trains (steam-jet venturi burners) and the Mark Twain
Steamboat (Beckett-style flame-retention burner, 120VAC from the
diesel Onan genset hidden at the stern) are running on red diesel.

If the local authorities suspect you are running off-road fuel in a
road vehicle to evade taxes, they either look at the water separator
bowl or draw a sample. The red dye will tell on you.

Yep. They can tell if you run red diesel for a long time after that
tank has burned up and green diesel ran in it.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

"Unknown" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 05:04:44 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

,;On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:07:06 -0600, Taunt
,;wrote:
,;
,;I'll check into it. I guessing I'd have to cut a hole for the exhaust,
I
,;don't know if I want to do that. ????
,;
,; Do it, it's always worth the trouble. Two words: "Carbon Monoxide"

Two additional words not mentioned except by chemists...Sulfuric acid

That compound added to propane (or natural gas) for odor detection is
a sulfur compound. Guess what comes out with the exhaust gasses after
combustion along with a hell of a lot of water.
,;

What's the worry?

Ethyl mercaptan is added in _extremely_ small amounts to propane - the
mercaptans are about the most fouls-smelling things there are, so you don't
need a whole lot of it to make the point.

What's more, they are heavier than propane and tend to sink to the bottom of
the bottle, so the percentage of mercaptan you burn is even smaller than
what is added (until you are at the very end of the tank). You'll probably
re-fill it before that, as it smells, well, bad.

Joseph Gwinn wrote in article
...


Don't use gasoline indoors. Use only kerosene. It won't be set off.
One can put a lit match out in kerosene.

Joe Gwinn


Since the OP stated that he was looking to heat a "2 stall garage", it is
reasonable to assume that it will be used to work on automobiles....

Since this is a metalworking NG, it's reasonable to assume the primary
activity is machining. A lot of people nowadays do not work on their
cars at all.

Automobiles - most of them - are fueled by gasoline.....carrying their
supply in quantities of one-to-30 gallons.....

Sometimes, a fuel line breaks or a gasoline spill occurs somehow - it is
unavoidable when working with fuel systems.....

So, in order to avoid having the gasoline indoors, you would suggest
working on the car outdoors?????

No, but you can turn off the flame while the fuel system and fuel are
open.

My shop time is divided between race cars and metalworking machines. I'm
pretty careful about when I do what, with regard to the wood-burning
stove I use for heat.

Any reasonably cautious person can deal with that.