I've been trying to get in to welding for awhile now, but have not had the
funds I needed to buy what I needed. I now have enough money to start
getting in to it seriously, and I was hoping someone might be able to help
me. I'm looking to buy a decent TIG welder. I'm looking to spend somewhere
near $1,000. I don't mind going as high as $1,500 if I can't get something
decent for 1k. I posted links below to some of the units I found that I
think are decent, but I'm not really sure. I don't mind buying used, but
whatever the machine is would have to be something that I wouldn't have to
repair. I bought a little $200 TIG welder from HarborFreight, but that just
didn't seem to work for me. My skills suck obviously, but I still don't
think the welder was doing that much good.. What I would like weld would be
aluminum and steel mostly. My plan isn't to weld anything higher than 16
gauge, and most everything I would be working with would be in the 20 gauge
or higher range. If you have any advice I would appreciate it. Thank you for
your time.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...rowave_180_sd/

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/econotig_ac_dc/

-Stephen

I went through this same process awhile ago. The Econotig is also sold as
the TigMate. The specs looked good to me, and the price seemed right,
but...

I looked at a lot of machines, and went to a Miller road show, where they
rolled in the 18 wheeler with every machine they make. This is where I
first saw the Passport, some huge pipe welders and so on. Anyway, I looked
all around and finally asked the rep where the Econotig was. His reply, "We
don't recommend that unit, and we don't bring it to our roadshows." I later
asked at two different welding dealers, and both of them told me that they
wouldn't sell it to me. That was quite enough for me...

I use the Synchrowave at the classes I take at the community college, and I
like it a lot. But I couldn't afford one. So I ended up with an older,
used, DC only, lift start unit called the Power Pulse from a company called
Daytona Mig. This unit is actually a Cebora, I believe. I got it on eBay
for under $500, and it has worked out very well for me. No AC, no high
frequency, no foot pedal, but the pulse feature allows me to weld thin
stock, and tubular material, mild steel and stainless.

Others will point you to other equipment, but many experts warned me away
from the Econotig.

Good luck!

"Zipper" zipper777ATcomcastDOTnet wrote in message
...
I've been trying to get in to welding for awhile now, but have not had the
funds I needed to buy what I needed. I now have enough money to start
getting in to it seriously, and I was hoping someone might be able to help
me. I'm looking to buy a decent TIG welder. I'm looking to spend somewhere
near $1,000. I don't mind going as high as $1,500 if I can't get something
decent for 1k. I posted links below to some of the units I found that I
think are decent, but I'm not really sure. I don't mind buying used, but
whatever the machine is would have to be something that I wouldn't have to
repair. I bought a little $200 TIG welder from HarborFreight, but that
just didn't seem to work for me. My skills suck obviously, but I still
don't think the welder was doing that much good.. What I would like weld
would be aluminum and steel mostly. My plan isn't to weld anything higher
than 16 gauge, and most everything I would be working with would be in the
20 gauge or higher range. If you have any advice I would appreciate it.
Thank you for your time.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...rowave_180_sd/

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/econotig_ac_dc/

-Stephen


Take your money and get some lessons. If you could buy a $5,000 welder used
for $1,000 it wouldn't do you any good.

Steve

Zipper wrote:
I've been trying to get in to welding for awhile now, but have not had the
funds I needed to buy what I needed. I now have enough money to start
getting in to it seriously, and I was hoping someone might be able to help
me. I'm looking to buy a decent TIG welder. I'm looking to spend somewhere
near $1,000. I don't mind going as high as $1,500 if I can't get something
decent for 1k. I posted links below to some of the units I found that I
think are decent, but I'm not really sure. I don't mind buying used, but
whatever the machine is would have to be something that I wouldn't have to
repair. I bought a little $200 TIG welder from HarborFreight, but that just
didn't seem to work for me. My skills suck obviously, but I still don't
think the welder was doing that much good.. What I would like weld would be
aluminum and steel mostly. My plan isn't to weld anything higher than 16
gauge, and most everything I would be working with would be in the 20 gauge
or higher range. If you have any advice I would appreciate it. Thank you for
your time.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...rowave_180_sd/

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/econotig_ac_dc/

-Stephen


You might ask this question at this newsgroup:
sci.engr.joining.welding

I was told to bypass the econotig_ac_dc, so I got the 180_sd and like it
just fine for my limited experience.

In the welding newsgroup the question gets asked all the time (what's
the best for the price?). Last time I read the group it seemed alot of
posters were talking about a thermal arc 185 ac_dc

Jack

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:43:22 -0400, "Zipper"
zipper777ATcomcastDOTnet wrote:

I've been trying to get in to welding for awhile now, but have not had the
funds I needed to buy what I needed. I now have enough money to start
getting in to it seriously, and I was hoping someone might be able to help
me. I'm looking to buy a decent TIG welder. I'm looking to spend somewhere
near $1,000. I don't mind going as high as $1,500 if I can't get something
decent for 1k. I posted links below to some of the units I found that I
think are decent, but I'm not really sure. I don't mind buying used, but
whatever the machine is would have to be something that I wouldn't have to
repair. I bought a little $200 TIG welder from HarborFreight, but that just
didn't seem to work for me. My skills suck obviously, but I still don't
think the welder was doing that much good.. What I would like weld would be
aluminum and steel mostly. My plan isn't to weld anything higher than 16
gauge, and most everything I would be working with would be in the 20 gauge
or higher range. If you have any advice I would appreciate it. Thank you for
your time.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...rowave_180_sd/

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/econotig_ac_dc/

-Stephen

Let's hope Ernie checks in on this. Note that Miller defines TIG
welding of aluminum thinner than 14 gage as "difficult" with the
Econotig. I doubt that it's much easier with a Synchrowave, but
I've never used one. I know there are those that can weld
beercans together with TIG. I'll warn you that it took me a lot of
practice to attain the skill to TIG even 20 gage aluminum with my
old Miller Dialarc 250HF -- which was around $1000 when I got it used.

Steel is much easier. I think either machine would work fine for you
with steel.

Trying to learn to weld with a Harbor Freight welder is an exercise in
futility because you never know if problems are yours or limitations
of the machine. Voice of experience. I "learned" to MIG weld with
a HF machine, accepted the fact that I was a pretty lousy weldor but
it got the job (bodywork) done. Then, when that POS finally broke,
I tried a Lincoln SP-125+. WOW! There was a world of difference.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:10:08 GMT, Ignoramus24693
wrote:


My suggestion is to look harder for a good used value. My digital TIG
welder (DC only) cost me only $9.99. Like you, I once thought that I
could not find a cheap TIG welder, and despaired, but after a few
months of looking, I bought one:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...berTig-Welder/

i

Good for you, Ig. Welded any 20 gage aluminum with it yet?

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 05:01:48 GMT, Ignoramus24693
wrote:


Quite conversely, a novice weldor with a nice welder (welding machine)
can produce serviceable welds. For example, I am as new to welding as
it could be, and my basically second weld passed a destructive test
quite well. A section of a butt weld did not fail after bending 180%.

I give full credit to the machine, and none to myself.

Check out

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Welding/01-First-Weld/

i

I agree with the preamble but gag on the fini. Your example is
completely irrelevant to the OP. These are typical first-try novice
stick welds in metal much thicker than the OP is interested in. The
OP might prefer to see pix of your TIG welds in 24 gage steel and 20
gage aluminum as evidence of your credibility as an advisor.

I'd like to see those too! I'll post mine if you'll post yours.

I stand way behind Ernie when it comes to welding. You currently
stand way behind me and many RCM'ers on that subject.

In article ,
"Zipper" zipper777ATcomcastDOTnet wrote:

I've been trying to get in to welding for awhile now, but have not had the
funds I needed to buy what I needed. I now have enough money to start
getting in to it seriously, and I was hoping someone might be able to help
me. I'm looking to buy a decent TIG welder. I'm looking to spend somewhere
near $1,000. I don't mind going as high as $1,500 if I can't get something
decent for 1k. I posted links below to some of the units I found that I
think are decent, but I'm not really sure. I don't mind buying used, but
whatever the machine is would have to be something that I wouldn't have to
repair. I bought a little $200 TIG welder from HarborFreight, but that just
didn't seem to work for me. My skills suck obviously, but I still don't
think the welder was doing that much good.. What I would like weld would be
aluminum and steel mostly. My plan isn't to weld anything higher than 16
gauge, and most everything I would be working with would be in the 20 gauge
or higher range. If you have any advice I would appreciate it. Thank you for
your time.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...rowave_180_sd/

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/econotig_ac_dc/

-Stephen

If you check your local auction listings you can find machines like this

http://cgi.ebay.com/miller-syncrowav...emZ7554738099Q
QcategoryZ113743QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Older transformer machines tend to go cheap at auctions.

Of the new machines, I like the Miller Syncrowave 180, Maxstar 150,
Maxstar 200, and Dynasty 200 machines, the Lincoln Precisiontig 185,
Squarewave 175, and Invertec 205 machines, the HTP Invertig 200, and the
Thermal Arc 185TSW.
There is also the ESAB Heliarc 161

All of these machine fall between $1200 and $2700.


Check eBay for used machines near you, and start scanning your local
auction listings.

--
"I love deadlines, especially the wooshing sound they make as
they fly by" - Douglas Adams

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:_Dj4f.17054$fE5.3346@fed1read06...

"Zipper" zipper777ATcomcastDOTnet wrote in message
...
I've been trying to get in to welding for awhile now, but have not had
the
funds I needed to buy what I needed. I now have enough money to start
getting in to it seriously, and I was hoping someone might be able to
help
me. I'm looking to buy a decent TIG welder. I'm looking to spend
somewhere
near $1,000. I don't mind going as high as $1,500 if I can't get
something
decent for 1k. I posted links below to some of the units I found that I
think are decent, but I'm not really sure. I don't mind buying used, but
whatever the machine is would have to be something that I wouldn't have
to
repair. I bought a little $200 TIG welder from HarborFreight, but that
just didn't seem to work for me. My skills suck obviously, but I still
don't think the welder was doing that much good.. What I would like weld
would be aluminum and steel mostly. My plan isn't to weld anything
higher
than 16 gauge, and most everything I would be working with would be in
the
20 gauge or higher range. If you have any advice I would appreciate it.
Thank you for your time.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...rowave_180_sd/

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/econotig_ac_dc/

-Stephen


Take your money and get some lessons. If you could buy a $5,000 welder
used
for $1,000 it wouldn't do you any good.

Steve


Ha! You might try telling my buddy the same thing. He bought a new
Miller (years ago) and learned to TIG weld well enough to get
certified -------for defense work, no less. Mind you, I'm not
suggesting that anyone that desires to learn to weld ignore proper
instruction, but it can be learned other ways. The bad part is you don't
have anyone looking over your shoulder to tell you what you're doing wrong,
so bad habits can be enforced, same as when one is self taught machining.

Harold

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...
snip-----

I should have included in my comments:

He learned on his own, from a book.


Ha! You might try telling my buddy the same thing. He bought a new
Miller (years ago) and learned to TIG weld well enough to get
certified -------for defense work, no less. Mind you, I'm not
suggesting that anyone that desires to learn to weld ignore proper
instruction, but it can be learned other ways. The bad part is you
don't
have anyone looking over your shoulder to tell you what you're doing
wrong,
so bad habits can be enforced, same as when one is self taught machining.

Harold

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:_Dj4f.17054$fE5.3346@fed1read06...

"Zipper" zipper777ATcomcastDOTnet wrote in message
...
I've been trying to get in to welding for awhile now, but have not had
the
funds I needed to buy what I needed. I now have enough money to start
getting in to it seriously, and I was hoping someone might be able to
help
me. I'm looking to buy a decent TIG welder. I'm looking to spend
somewhere
near $1,000. I don't mind going as high as $1,500 if I can't get
something
decent for 1k. I posted links below to some of the units I found that I
think are decent, but I'm not really sure. I don't mind buying used,
but
whatever the machine is would have to be something that I wouldn't have
to
repair. I bought a little $200 TIG welder from HarborFreight, but that
just didn't seem to work for me. My skills suck obviously, but I still
don't think the welder was doing that much good.. What I would like
weld
would be aluminum and steel mostly. My plan isn't to weld anything
higher
than 16 gauge, and most everything I would be working with would be in
the
20 gauge or higher range. If you have any advice I would appreciate it.
Thank you for your time.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...rowave_180_sd/

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/econotig_ac_dc/

-Stephen


Take your money and get some lessons. If you could buy a $5,000 welder
used
for $1,000 it wouldn't do you any good.

Steve


Ha! You might try telling my buddy the same thing. He bought a new
Miller (years ago) and learned to TIG weld well enough to get
certified -------for defense work, no less. Mind you, I'm not
suggesting that anyone that desires to learn to weld ignore proper
instruction, but it can be learned other ways. The bad part is you
don't
have anyone looking over your shoulder to tell you what you're doing
wrong,
so bad habits can be enforced, same as when one is self taught machining.

Harold



And he learned it from a book, too, as I read in your other post.

Some people have talent. This is what separates a piano player from a
concert pianist. A musician from a guitar player.

So many endeavors are entered into by people who "think" they would like
something, or who "think" they want to try it. They go out and buy all
sorts of expensive equipment, then go nowhere. Look at all the ads for
"new" "used twice" ski and scuba gear. And then there are others who won't
think of lessons, and who just go and try to do it themselves and fail or
lose interest.

A lot of people can attain skills and experience by just doing if they have
a talent to start with. But they will eventually reach the limits of their
capabilities and knowledge and have to rely on others for instruction. And
then, there are a very few people who already know everything, and need no
instruction or training. I have known a few, and they were egotistical
boors.

Your friend bought a TIG machine, taught himself, read a book, and then
qualified for "defense" work?

God pray for us all! He doesn't weld for NASA, does he?

BUT WAIT! I did about the same thing, so I shouldn't crow so loud. In my
case, it was doing the handrails for the #13 parking lot at Hoover Dam.
That can be considered a strategic location in our defense system, can't it.

WAIT, WAIT! I have done other "defense work" welding. I did the awning
frames on the mess halls at Nellis AFB, Nevada.

I built AC jacks for their on base houses!

WHOA!. I'm better than I thought when I look at it in a broader light.
Thank you so much!

I feel better. My self esteem has shot off the chart as if I had been given
a million dollar grant by a Liberal Democrat Senator. I'm going to run off
and look at myself in a mirror for a while! LOOK AT ME, I'M A WELDER THAT
DOES DEFENSE WORK!

LOOK AT ME, I'M A WELDER THAT DOES DEFENSE WORK!

LOOK AT ME, I'M A WELDER THAT DOES DEFENSE WORK!

Steve

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 05:01:48 GMT, Ignoramus24693
wrote:


Quite conversely, a novice weldor with a nice welder (welding machine)
can produce serviceable welds. For example, I am as new to welding as
it could be, and my basically second weld passed a destructive test
quite well. A section of a butt weld did not fail after bending 180%.

I give full credit to the machine, and none to myself.


Gorilla welds have been around for a long time. They are the common name
for "serviceable welds." They hold for a very long time, and technically
ARE welding, but they don't have a lot to do with real welding. Good welds
have to stand up to much harsher things like x-rays, NDT, magnaflux and
other NDT methods.

Steve

I should add that I am doing this for hobby only. I have no intentions of
ever trying to have a job doing this. I work with computers for a living,
and enjoy that very much, I'm also quite good at it. From the sounds of
things I've heard so far I'm either going to go for a Syncowave 180 SD or
I'll look a bit more on the used market. I'm also going to look at the
welders Enrie mentioned. Thanks for everyone's reply. Any more advice for a
noob, would be appreicated.

-Stephen


"Zipper" zipper777ATcomcastDOTnet wrote in message
...
I've been trying to get in to welding for awhile now, but have not had the
funds I needed to buy what I needed. I now have enough money to start
getting in to it seriously, and I was hoping someone might be able to help
me. I'm looking to buy a decent TIG welder. I'm looking to spend somewhere
near $1,000. I don't mind going as high as $1,500 if I can't get something
decent for 1k. I posted links below to some of the units I found that I
think are decent, but I'm not really sure. I don't mind buying used, but
whatever the machine is would have to be something that I wouldn't have to
repair. I bought a little $200 TIG welder from HarborFreight, but that
just didn't seem to work for me. My skills suck obviously, but I still
don't think the welder was doing that much good.. What I would like weld
would be aluminum and steel mostly. My plan isn't to weld anything higher
than 16 gauge, and most everything I would be working with would be in the
20 gauge or higher range. If you have any advice I would appreciate it.
Thank you for your time.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...rowave_180_sd/

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/econotig_ac_dc/

-Stephen

My advice would be to spend more time with your Harbor Freight welder.
I have not used one, but other people here have said they are
surprisingly good. Get a book or two or find someone that can tell you
what you are doing wrong. When I first learned to weld, I spent the
first month ( about 80 hours ) with a oxy/acet torch. And I was not
very good at the end of the month. During this time I had probably
less than an hour of instruction, which was about the right amount.
Learning to weld takes a lot of practise.


Dan

"Zipper" zipper777ATcomcastDOTnet wrote

If you have any advice I would appreciate it.
Thank you for your time.



Buy the most you can afford. Try to buy used so you can get more for your
money. Buy ONLY brand names so you can get parts and service. STAY away
from HF crap and obsolete brand names, or you will spend more down time than
welding time.

If you are going to do it, do it right. You will know what I am talking
about in a year when your welder is sleeping happily in the garage, ready to
go, or disassembled and not working due to some part that needs to be
shipped from Upper Uzbekistan. In the end, good welders cost less than
crappy ones.

YMM(and probably does)V

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:8jv4f.17085$fE5.4361@fed1read06...

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:_Dj4f.17054$fE5.3346@fed1read06...

"Zipper" zipper777ATcomcastDOTnet wrote in message
...
I've been trying to get in to welding for awhile now, but have not
had
the
funds I needed to buy what I needed. I now have enough money to start
getting in to it seriously, and I was hoping someone might be able to
help
me. I'm looking to buy a decent TIG welder. I'm looking to spend
somewhere
near $1,000. I don't mind going as high as $1,500 if I can't get
something
decent for 1k. I posted links below to some of the units I found that
I
think are decent, but I'm not really sure. I don't mind buying used,
but
whatever the machine is would have to be something that I wouldn't
have
to
repair. I bought a little $200 TIG welder from HarborFreight, but
that
just didn't seem to work for me. My skills suck obviously, but I
still
don't think the welder was doing that much good.. What I would like
weld
would be aluminum and steel mostly. My plan isn't to weld anything
higher
than 16 gauge, and most everything I would be working with would be
in
the
20 gauge or higher range. If you have any advice I would appreciate
it.
Thank you for your time.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...rowave_180_sd/

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/econotig_ac_dc/

-Stephen


Take your money and get some lessons. If you could buy a $5,000 welder
used
for $1,000 it wouldn't do you any good.

Steve


Ha! You might try telling my buddy the same thing. He bought a new
Miller (years ago) and learned to TIG weld well enough to get
certified -------for defense work, no less. Mind you, I'm not
suggesting that anyone that desires to learn to weld ignore proper
instruction, but it can be learned other ways. The bad part is you
don't
have anyone looking over your shoulder to tell you what you're doing
wrong,
so bad habits can be enforced, same as when one is self taught
machining.

Harold



And he learned it from a book, too, as I read in your other post.

Some people have talent. This is what separates a piano player from a
concert pianist. A musician from a guitar player.

So many endeavors are entered into by people who "think" they would like
something, or who "think" they want to try it. They go out and buy all
sorts of expensive equipment, then go nowhere. Look at all the ads for
"new" "used twice" ski and scuba gear. And then there are others who
won't
think of lessons, and who just go and try to do it themselves and fail or
lose interest.

A lot of people can attain skills and experience by just doing if they
have
a talent to start with. But they will eventually reach the limits of
their
capabilities and knowledge and have to rely on others for instruction.
And
then, there are a very few people who already know everything, and need no
instruction or training. I have known a few, and they were egotistical
boors.

Your friend bought a TIG machine, taught himself, read a book, and then
qualified for "defense" work?

God pray for us all! He doesn't weld for NASA, does he?

BUT WAIT! I did about the same thing, so I shouldn't crow so loud. In my
case, it was doing the handrails for the #13 parking lot at Hoover Dam.
That can be considered a strategic location in our defense system, can't
it.

WAIT, WAIT! I have done other "defense work" welding. I did the awning
frames on the mess halls at Nellis AFB, Nevada.

I built AC jacks for their on base houses!

WHOA!. I'm better than I thought when I look at it in a broader light.
Thank you so much!

I feel better. My self esteem has shot off the chart as if I had been
given
a million dollar grant by a Liberal Democrat Senator. I'm going to run
off
and look at myself in a mirror for a while! LOOK AT ME, I'M A WELDER THAT
DOES DEFENSE WORK!

LOOK AT ME, I'M A WELDER THAT DOES DEFENSE WORK!

LOOK AT ME, I'M A WELDER THAT DOES DEFENSE WORK!

Steve



Yawn!!!!!!!

You're very close to becoming the second person I've plonked. You remind
me very much of a baby bird.

Harold

"Zipper" zipper777ATcomcastDOTnet wrote in message
...
| I've been trying to get in to welding for awhile now, but have not had the
| funds I needed to buy what I needed.

SNIP

Find something you can afford and make it work. If you've started with the
HF TIG box, I think you're already ahead of the game, because you've already
gotten the feel for things. Take that unteachable knowledge and use it to
find a good tool that fits your budget and needs. Craigslist always seems
to have some interesting things on it, but you have to look and move fast.
I think that skill and experience means a whole lot more than expensive
tools, since that's the one thing you can't run out and buy, you actually
have to earn it.

Something that got pounded into my head as a teenager over and over: "A bad
carpenter always blames his tools." And it is my limited experience that
awesome work has been turned out with clumsy tools that would gag us spoiled
Americans. A good carpenter can make use of whatever tools he can
beg/borrow/steal and still come up with a masterpiece. I'd rather be that
good carpenter who takes great care of his worn saw than someone with a pile
of really, really shiny tools that collect more dust than dents.

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:SjA4f.17142$fE5.14955@fed1read06...

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote

You're very close to becoming the second person I've plonked. You
remind
me very much of a baby bird.

Harold



Don't hold back, Harold. Do me the honor. It will be better than reading
your posts about imaginary people.

Steve


Gawd, what a moron you are. Given the facts at hand, it will be the most
attention you'll have received of late. Consider it done. You now have
joined the ranks of Dick Kink, the other guy that offers nothing aside from
his self admiration.

Imaginary people? It's your self appointed authority that's imaginary.

Farewell, and good riddance, Steve. I'm really going to miss your amoral
comments and your cross posting. Judging from your posts, you are to
skilled crastsmen what W is to dedicated statesmen. A true poser. An arm
chair quarterback.

Harold

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:SjA4f.17142$fE5.14955@fed1read06...

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote

You're very close to becoming the second person I've plonked. You
remind
me very much of a baby bird.

Harold



Don't hold back, Harold. Do me the honor. It will be better than
reading
your posts about imaginary people.

Steve


Gawd, what a moron you are. Given the facts at hand, it will be the most
attention you'll have received of late. Consider it done. You now
have
joined the ranks of Dick Kink, the other guy that offers nothing aside
from
his self admiration.

Imaginary people? It's your self appointed authority that's imaginary.

Farewell, and good riddance, Steve. I'm really going to miss your amoral
comments and your cross posting. Judging from your posts, you are to
skilled crastsmen what W is to dedicated statesmen. A true poser. An
arm
chair quarterback.

Harold



Well, Harold. You DO have to admit that I post about what "I" do, and what
"I" have done.

And why interject your political views?

All along, I have just taken exception to imaginary people doing this and
that, and you have to get personal.

Sheesh.

I was just trying to tell the OP to get a decent machine to learn on so he
didn't get discouraged.

Was I supposed to be impressed that you knew a self taught welder who did
"defense work"? And that you worked in a "missile facility." Hell, I did
that one year for the local missing children's organization. (I worked at a
fireworks stand.)

Steve

PS: Is welding rebar on an Air Force base considered "defense work." If
so, I have all the qualifications of your friend, Harvey.

Oh, wait, you won't see this ...............

never mind.................

Don Foreman wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:10:08 GMT, Ignoramus24693
wrote:




My suggestion is to look harder for a good used value. My digital TIG
welder (DC only) cost me only $9.99. Like you, I once thought that I
could not find a cheap TIG welder, and despaired, but after a few
months of looking, I bought one:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...berTig-Welder/

i



Good for you, Ig. Welded any 20 gage aluminum with it yet?



Not likely with a DC-only machine. I spent quite a bit more for a used
Lincoln Square-Wave TIG 300, which is a fantastic machine. I had one
small problem in the post-flow timer, but as I am pretty skilled with
electronics, it only took two tries to get a permanent fix. (Being too
cheap
at times, I put an old surplus part in, and it failed the same way as the
original part after a week.) I paid $1299, I think, for the machine on
eBay, which is at the upper end of your price range. But, it is a totally
phenomenal machine. I quickly sold my stick welder, and except for the
most monstrous steel beam type work, hope to never see a stick electrode
ever again! (What I mean is, I still have the capability, and realize the
TIG has some limitations, but the stick process is so DIRTY it literally
makes me sick, from the fumes.)

Aluminum is quite tricky, and there are a lot of alloys that are hard
or impossible to weld with TIG. I burned up a few feet of edges on various
scraps of aluminum sheet until I proved that I could get about 4" of
really decent-looking butt weld on .062" aluminum. That told me that
all I needed was more practice. I also discovered that the Argon cost more
than I had expected, and that while my technique remained bad, I was going
to eat a lot of torch cups, too. I bent this sample, and the weld did
not crack!
YES!

There's a seller on eBay, aglevtech, that sells LOTS of TIG materials for
a very decent price. I got a bunch of cups and gas lenses from him for
maybe 20% of retail.

I also got some nasty surprises. Like a serious sunburn right through
heavy clothes! In fact, the burn was WORSE where the clothes covered
me than other parts! (Might be my skin is less used to sun exposure
where the shirt normally covers.) I got a welding jacket, and now wear
it EVERY time I TIG.

Jon

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:19:06 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:


Good for you, Ig. Welded any 20 gage aluminum with it yet?



Not likely with a DC-only machine.

Ig is building a chopper to get squarewave from it.

(snip)

Aluminum is quite tricky, and there are a lot of alloys that are hard
or impossible to weld with TIG. I burned up a few feet of edges on various
scraps of aluminum sheet until I proved that I could get about 4" of
really decent-looking butt weld on .062" aluminum. That told me that
all I needed was more practice.

Zirconiated tungstens made a huge difference for me when working
with thin aluminum. Using the right filler for a given alloy can
help a lot too.

It would be a lot easier on a Synchrowave. One of the problems with
the Econotig is that you can not reduce the current below something
like 20 or 30 Amps. The Synchrowave will probably go down to about 5
amps.

Dan


Don Foreman wrote:

Let's hope Ernie checks in on this. Note that Miller defines TIG
welding of aluminum thinner than 14 gage as "difficult" with the
Econotig. I doubt that it's much easier with a Synchrowave, but
I've never used one.

On 17 Oct 2005 19:02:17 -0700, "
wrote:

It would be a lot easier on a Synchrowave. One of the problems with
the Econotig is that you can not reduce the current below something
like 20 or 30 Amps.

Oops! Reject!

Ignoramus5275 wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:19:06 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:


Don Foreman wrote:


On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:10:08 GMT, Ignoramus24693
wrote:





My suggestion is to look harder for a good used value. My digital TIG
welder (DC only) cost me only $9.99. Like you, I once thought that I
could not find a cheap TIG welder, and despaired, but after a few
months of looking, I bought one:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...berTig-Welder/

i



Good for you, Ig. Welded any 20 gage aluminum with it yet?




Not likely with a DC-only machine. I spent quite a bit more for a used
Lincoln Square-Wave TIG 300, which is a fantastic machine. I had one
small problem in the post-flow timer, but as I am pretty skilled with
electronics, it only took two tries to get a permanent fix. (Being too
cheap
at times, I put an old surplus part in, and it failed the same way as the
original part after a week.) I paid $1299, I think, for the machine on
eBay, which is at the upper end of your price range. But, it is a totally
phenomenal machine. I quickly sold my stick welder, and except for the
most monstrous steel beam type work, hope to never see a stick electrode
ever again! (What I mean is, I still have the capability, and realize the
TIG has some limitations, but the stick process is so DIRTY it literally
makes me sick, from the fumes.)

Aluminum is quite tricky, and there are a lot of alloys that are hard
or impossible to weld with TIG. I burned up a few feet of edges on various
scraps of aluminum sheet until I proved that I could get about 4" of
really decent-looking butt weld on .062" aluminum. That told me that
all I needed was more practice. I also discovered that the Argon cost more
than I had expected, and that while my technique remained bad, I was going
to eat a lot of torch cups, too. I bent this sample, and the weld did
not crack!
YES!

There's a seller on eBay, aglevtech, that sells LOTS of TIG materials for
a very decent price. I got a bunch of cups and gas lenses from him for
maybe 20% of retail.

I also got some nasty surprises. Like a serious sunburn right through
heavy clothes! In fact, the burn was WORSE where the clothes covered
me than other parts! (Might be my skin is less used to sun exposure
where the shirt normally covers.) I got a welding jacket, and now wear
it EVERY time I TIG.


That's great. I can't wait until I get all the stuff to start tig
welding. Cleanliness and lack of fumes definitely has its appeal.
If you haven't done some DC TIG on steel, I recommend it! It is a JOY
to see the work up close without having your skin blasted with hot
sparks, there's no smoke, and a good view of the work. The TIG arc is
like working inches away from a multi-kilowatt carbon-arc lamp, that is
a bit different from stick, and you really have to protect your skin more.
When using stick, I really have some trouble seeing the difference
between metal and slag, at least in some conditions, and have to re-do
the welds a couple times to get proper fusion. And, there's no chipping
the slag away after. HF starting is also great, I've never been real
good at scratch starting with a cold stick electrode. If I turn the
current up enough to get reliable starts without sticking, then I blow
holes in the workpiece.

After screwing around with pretty mediocre results in aluminum, I did
my first TIG project in steel, and got excellent results within minutes.
I was able to weld indoors, right inside my house, with no complaints.
The thing I was making was big enough that it wasn't too portable.
If you are OK with stick, you should be able to pick up most of the
TIG technique in steel in minutes. Really the only difference is you
don't consume electrodes, you add filler wire. That most basic stuff
comes pretty quickly.

I should add that when I got the TIG machine for serious money, I
bought some good stuff to go with it. It is a cheapie eBay auto-dark
helmet with adjustable darkness and go-to-clear delay. The machine
came with a cooler and a 300 A water-cooled torch, which I upgraded
with gas lenses to be able to work with less Argon flow. So, with all
these upgrades (welder, torch, helmet, etc. I found things a lot easier.
The auto-dark helmet is a great improvement on the fixed-shade helmet.
The TIG torch can often be positioned so that it hides the arc, but
leaves almost everything else visible. This is a great improvement
over stick, where you really can't hide the arc well, and it requires
you to use such a dark lens.

Jon

Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:19:06 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:



Good for you, Ig. Welded any 20 gage aluminum with it yet?




Not likely with a DC-only machine.


Ig is building a chopper to get squarewave from it.

Yes, I know he is TRYING to do so. Having built a number of power
switching circuits (inverters, PWM servo amps, etc.) I know how
DIFFICULT that is going to be, and that he massively underestimates
the difficulty of the task.
(snip)

Aluminum is quite tricky, and there are a lot of alloys that are hard
or impossible to weld with TIG. I burned up a few feet of edges on various
scraps of aluminum sheet until I proved that I could get about 4" of
really decent-looking butt weld on .062" aluminum. That told me that
all I needed was more practice.


Zirconiated tungstens made a huge difference for me when working
with thin aluminum. Using the right filler for a given alloy can
help a lot too.

Yup, both of these are VERY important. Before I knew better, I let the
guy at the welding store sell me some EWP (pure Tungsten) electrodes,
and they were totally useless! The Zr electrodes are vastly superior.

Jon

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:48:36 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

Ig is building a chopper to get squarewave from it.

Yes, I know he is TRYING to do so. Having built a number of power
switching circuits (inverters, PWM servo amps, etc.) I know how
DIFFICULT that is going to be, and that he massively underestimates
the difficulty of the task.

Perhaps I should have said that he's typing a lot about building a
chopper.

I would suggest you have a look at HTP's HTP130DCHF.
http://www.htpweld.com/products/tig_welders/tig130.html
I have used it on projects ranging from 18ga to 1/4" steel.
It is small, lightweight and portable (about the size of a toaster).
It provides 5a-130a (inf. adjustable; 15% duty cycle) of DC rated at
3/16 steel.
It has built-in gas solenoid (no on-torch valve), HF start and lift
start.
It includes a solidly built foot pedal (12ft), torch and ground cable.
It requires 230v (16a max) and can do stick with an electrode holder.
The HTP130DCHF sells for $850 (includes flow-guage) and has a money
back guarantee. BTW, you will not find better support than the folks at
HTP.
I have purchased several welders from them (as have my friends) and
strongly recommend them.

On 18 Oct 2005 12:55:05 -0700, wrote:

I would suggest you have a look at HTP's HTP130DCHF.
http://www.htpweld.com/products/tig_welders/tig130.html
I have used it on projects ranging from 18ga to 1/4" steel.
It is small, lightweight and portable (about the size of a toaster).
It provides 5a-130a (inf. adjustable; 15% duty cycle) of DC rated at
3/16 steel.
It has built-in gas solenoid (no on-torch valve), HF start and lift
start.
It includes a solidly built foot pedal (12ft), torch and ground cable.
It requires 230v (16a max) and can do stick with an electrode holder.
The HTP130DCHF sells for $850 (includes flow-guage) and has a money
back guarantee. BTW, you will not find better support than the folks at
HTP.
I have purchased several welders from them (as have my friends) and
strongly recommend them.

DC only -- not a good choice for aluminum.