According to our current President....yes with no exceptions.

Then again he has not been sitting on a roof for days without food and
water waiting for the government to provide the assistance they
promised but haven't delivered.

TMT

Ignoramus29984 wrote:
Let's say, for an example sake, that there is a flood in my
area. Let's further suppose that I have no food stored, or that my
house has been flooded and food is destroyed.

I have a family to feed. I break into a closed food store and
steal food. Have I committed an immoral act?

I don't think anyone has a problem with that. But people like that
were a small part of what we saw.

Ignoramus29984 wrote:
Let's say, for an example sake, that there is a flood in my
area. Let's further suppose that I have no food stored, or that my
house has been flooded and food is destroyed.

I have a family to feed. I break into a closed food store and
steal food. Have I committed an immoral act?

i

I just had this argument with the SO last night. Stealing food/water
because you have no other option(catastrophe situation, not welfare)
should not be considered immoral.

Those that are looting Super Soakers and RC Cars and what not are
STEALING. Plain and simple. My SO tried to argue that it's going to
waste anyways so why not take it and make some use of it. She also
tried to argue that maybe they had some "higher" intention towards
survival. I don't think so. They are stealing for the simple fact
that they can.

JW

Ignoramus29984 wrote in article
...
Let's say, for an example sake, that there is a flood in my
area. Let's further suppose that I have no food stored, or that my
house has been flooded and food is destroyed.

I have a family to feed. I break into a closed food store and
steal food. Have I committed an immoral act?


The morality is that someone is trying to feed someone through any means
available.

I stand by the cops who looked the other way while the grocery stores were
being looted.

As a matter of fact, many store owners simply opened their stores for the
purpose of giving away their stuff in an orderly manner.

OTOH - there really isn't much life-sustaining need for a television,
stereo, or jewelry during the present, no-electricity situation, and
anybody emerging from such a store with arms laden is a trophy shot in my
book.

Funny how so many other disasters around the USA seem to have brought out
the absolute best in the American people, but in an area boasting the title
"The Big Easy" where morals are loose at best, and often snickered at,
morality and empathy for fellow humans has totally broken down.

Go figure!

In article 01c5afca$c4b9e960$c7a2c3d8@race, * says...

Funny how so many other disasters around the USA seem to have brought out
the absolute best in the American people, but in an area boasting the title
"The Big Easy" where morals are loose at best, and often snickered at,
morality and empathy for fellow humans has totally broken down.

I think the looting and criminal acts do sell a lot of newspapers and
airtime. I suspect that there's not much airplay in talking about the
folks in the hospitals right now, who refuse to abandon their patients
in the face of overwhelming conditions.

I think the moral here is that we cannot count on the govenment to
help us in times of disaster - we have to rely on ourselves. Not
a real suprise.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Ignoramus29984 writes:

Let's say, for an example sake, that there is a flood in my
area. Let's further suppose that I have no food stored, or that my
house has been flooded and food is destroyed.

I have a family to feed. I break into a closed food store and
steal food. Have I committed an immoral act?


Yes- but its necessary. Your choices are limited- its immoral to break
in and steal food. Its also immoral to let your family starve when food
is on the other side of the door and there are no other alternatves.
Your choice. Once your situation improves, then its time to make
reparations to the store's owner.

Gregm

If you watched the interview ABC did with the President, he said there
is NO excuse for looting....NONE.

I suspect that the looting for basic survival needs were the LARGE part
of the looting going on. A parent taking a box of diapers doesn't make
it on the 5:00 o'clock news.

How many big screen TVs does Walmart carry compared to how many boxes
of diapers?

The ones who are taking non survival items are stealing and should be
prosecuted.

They are also in the minority.

If you don't think so, go sit up on your roof for a few days without
food and water and tell me what you want when you come down...it won't
be a big screen TV.

TMT

The irony is that if a store owner allows "looters" to break in the
insurance will pay off the claim.

If he opens the door, his losses will not be reimbursed.

TMT

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...
According to our current President....yes with no exceptions.

And said with a smile - that interview was a little creepy.

Then again he has not been sitting on a roof for days without food and
water waiting for the government to provide the assistance they
promised but haven't delivered.

Good thing we are spending all that money on Homeland Security.

jim rozen wrote:
In article 01c5afca$c4b9e960$c7a2c3d8@race, * says...


Funny how so many other disasters around the USA seem to have brought out
the absolute best in the American people, but in an area boasting the title
"The Big Easy" where morals are loose at best, and often snickered at,
morality and empathy for fellow humans has totally broken down.


I think the looting and criminal acts do sell a lot of newspapers and
airtime. I suspect that there's not much airplay in talking about the
folks in the hospitals right now, who refuse to abandon their patients
in the face of overwhelming conditions.

Heard an NPR story yesterday about hospital workers keeping patients
alive after the ventilators lost power. They were using manual bellows
and taking turns pumping air into the patients, round the clock. When
they weren't doing that, they were attending to other patients as fast
as possible. Many had worked well past 24 hours with no sleep.
Lots of heroes out there.

"Rex B" wrote in message
...

Ignoramus29984 wrote:
Let's say, for an example sake, that there is a flood in my
area. Let's further suppose that I have no food stored, or that my
house has been flooded and food is destroyed.

I have a family to feed. I break into a closed food store and
steal food. Have I committed an immoral act?

I don't think anyone has a problem with that. But people like that were
a small part of what we saw.

My thought when I saw these people carting off electronics and such was
where are they planning on stashing this stuff? I agree food, water and
clothing are things one needs for survival and taking them should be excused
in a situation like this.
Steve

In article , Rex B says...

Heard an NPR story yesterday about hospital workers keeping patients
alive after the ventilators lost power. They were using manual bellows
and taking turns pumping air into the patients, round the clock. When
they weren't doing that, they were attending to other patients as fast
as possible. Many had worked well past 24 hours with no sleep.
Lots of heroes out there.

That's right, but they can't sell news stories about some
poor nurse hand-bagging a patient for hours on end. They
might feel obligated to take a turn and give the nurse a rest.

The real question is where's the cavalry? Why aren't they
doing an evac on that hospital?

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

jw wrote:

They are stealing for the simple fact that they can.

One has only to look at the faces of looters on the news. Virtually all
of those taking food, have a serious look of concern or desperation.
Those stealing non essentials have ****-eating grins on their faces.
Cop forces them to drop their loot, they just go around the corner and
try again.

Hear a reporter say a cop told them he wouldn't bother folks taking
food/water. But other looters, if he had his way, he's shoot dead, tag
the body "looter" and leave em.


Jon

"jw" wrote in message
oups.com...

Ignoramus29984 wrote:
Let's say, for an example sake, that there is a flood in my
area. Let's further suppose that I have no food stored, or that my
house has been flooded and food is destroyed.

I have a family to feed. I break into a closed food store and
steal food. Have I committed an immoral act?

i

I just had this argument with the SO last night. Stealing food/water
because you have no other option(catastrophe situation, not welfare)
should not be considered immoral.

Even the cops there were of that opinion, according to one report I heard on
public radio.


Those that are looting Super Soakers and RC Cars and what not are
STEALING. Plain and simple. My SO tried to argue that it's going to
waste anyways so why not take it and make some use of it. She also
tried to argue that maybe they had some "higher" intention towards
survival. I don't think so. They are stealing for the simple fact
that they can.

Exactly. They're common thugs, and they'd be doing it under any and all
circumstances. As far as I'm concerned, they are the ones that should be
shot dead on the spot. How people can live with profiting from the
suffering of others is beyond my understanding.

Harold

JW

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article 01c5afca$c4b9e960$c7a2c3d8@race, * says...

Funny how so many other disasters around the USA seem to have brought out
the absolute best in the American people, but in an area boasting the
title
"The Big Easy" where morals are loose at best, and often snickered at,
morality and empathy for fellow humans has totally broken down.

I think the looting and criminal acts do sell a lot of newspapers and
airtime. I suspect that there's not much airplay in talking about the
folks in the hospitals right now, who refuse to abandon their patients
in the face of overwhelming conditions.

I think the moral here is that we cannot count on the govenment to
help us in times of disaster - we have to rely on ourselves. Not
a real suprise.

Jim


How can you say that, Jim? Why, just last night on TV I saw that they're
talking about doing everything possible to help those folks. g

Anyone watch Nightline? Ted Koppel held (forgot his name) feet to the
fire, looking for answers. Seems those we elect to office are long on BS
and short on action. Typical government stuff, where they pick on those
that can't, or won't, fight back, all in an attempt to make it look like
they're doing something to earn their keep. Lots of lip service, very
little performance.

We, in this country (US) need a serious wake up call. We've had too much
for too long, all without paying a price-----but it's starting to look like
it's pay-up time.

Need an example? Boeing machinists going on strike for more, having
refused an offer that apparently puts an additional $15,000 in their
pockets-------while Boeing is looking for reasons---any reason----to get rid
of them--and they should. What do they have invested in their jobs? Jobs
that almost any machinist in other countries, is willing to do for a lot
less money---a reality of living in a world economy. It has been
reported on more than one occasion on the news here in the greater Seattle
area, that the average income for these folks is $59,000/year. For
machinists? Are we worth that kind of money? Seriously? The last job I
held, before starting my own shop, I was paid $3.50/hr, and it was
considered good money for a journeyman. That was back in '67, of course.

Who the hell put a nickel in me?

Harold

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 13:34:57 GMT, Ignoramus29984
wrote:

Let's say, for an example sake, that there is a flood in my
area. Let's further suppose that I have no food stored, or that my
house has been flooded and food is destroyed.

I have a family to feed. I break into a closed food store and
steal food. Have I committed an immoral act?

i
Yes.

However..its called situational ethics. Which is a variable.

On the other hand..you should expect to be shot dead for your
stupidity in not making some previous preperations to protect your
family.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:18:41 -0500, "Mike Henry"
wrote:


"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
According to our current President....yes with no exceptions.

And said with a smile - that interview was a little creepy.

Not a big fan of history are you? "You loot, we shoot" is very much
an accepted rule of thumb.


Then again he has not been sitting on a roof for days without food and
water waiting for the government to provide the assistance they
promised but haven't delivered.

Good thing we are spending all that money on Homeland Security.

Imagine how bad it would be without it.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 18:07:39 GMT, the blithe spirit Gunner
clearly indicated:

On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:18:41 -0500, "Mike Henry"
wrote:
Good thing we are spending all that money on Homeland Security.

Imagine how bad it would be without it.

Would you be so good as to point out what, if anything, the DHS has
done for (not to) the citizens of the USA so far?

Ditto for Katrina recovery, please.


..-.
Life is short. Eat dessert first!
---
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
Need an example? Boeing machinists going on strike for more, having
refused an offer that apparently puts an additional $15,000 in their
pockets-------while Boeing is looking for reasons---any reason----to get rid
of them--and they should. What do they have invested in their jobs? Jobs
that almost any machinist in other countries, is willing to do for a lot
less money---a reality of living in a world economy. It has been
reported on more than one occasion on the news here in the greater Seattle
area, that the average income for these folks is $59,000/year. For
machinists? Are we worth that kind of money?

I've never been a pro machinist, so I can't speak to that. I'd think the
aerospace machinists should be the very best. And I'd think that pay
range might be appropriate for that level of skill. But to turn down a
25% raise..... Boeing needs to call them on that.

Greg Menke wrote:
Ignoramus29984 writes:


Let's say, for an example sake, that there is a flood in my
area. Let's further suppose that I have no food stored, or that my
house has been flooded and food is destroyed.

I have a family to feed. I break into a closed food store and
steal food. Have I committed an immoral act?



Yes- but its necessary. Your choices are limited- its immoral to break
in and steal food. Its also immoral to let your family starve when food
is on the other side of the door and there are no other alternatves.
Your choice. Once your situation improves, then its time to make
reparations to the store's owner.

Gregm




Well, you just said what I was going to, especially the reparations part.

That question has been around forever though...And, from:

Bouvier's Law Dictionary
1856 Edition


MITIGATION. To make less rigorous or penal.

2. Crimes are frequently committed under circumstances which are not
justifiable nor excusable, yet they show that the offender has been
greatly tempted; as, for example, when a starving man steals bread to
satisfy his hunger, this circumstance is taken into consideration in
mitigation of his sentence.

*************************************

It was heartwarming to see the better side of humanity an hour ago when
the 20 or so members at my Rotary Club lunch reached into their wallets
and came up with over $1,000 to help those poor buggers, when the club
president brought up the subject and we passed a bucket around the tables.

I thought it better that SWMBO and I skip going out for dinner tonite
and eat at home, so that our money could help someone with nothing at
all to eat.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

Are you ****ing stupid or what mr too many tools?

Food, water, necessities are one thing for people to be scrambling for but
when the hoodlums are stealing everything from sneakers, guns, electronics
etc then those thugs deserve a slug in the head with no questions asked or
required. That is BY FAR what is being reported on our news and from
monitoring the HAM and SW broadcasts we are hearing officers being KILLED by
these thugs while trying to rein in the civil unrest.

Let me speculate, your home is flooded and you are sitting on your roof. A
group of less than desirables wade through the flood and break into your
home. You hear them ransacking your belongings in search of jewelry,
medicine, whatever. While they are leaving you are seen on the roof and some
slap shoots you with your own gun because you are a sitting target. Then
what? I, from the bottom of my Christian heart, should forgive these
individuals as they are simply a victim of circumstance and thus not
accountable for their mis-deeds? Give me a break you liberal ****. MOVE TO
CANADA
END OF RANT

Now pull out your wallet and give some money to help these victims. It
doesn't matter if it is $5 or $5 million just give to the red cross, or some
agency who will help the truly needy. It is our OBLIGATION as citizens of
the United States of America to help our fellow people in need. We must
rally together to help our country men and women through this tragedy.
Mother nature has dealt this blow NOT our moral and civil underpinnings
which we all have the FREEDOM to debate openly and publicly in our fine
country.

Pedroman .... and yes I'm Republican.....

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
If you watched the interview ABC did with the President, he said there
is NO excuse for looting....NONE.

I suspect that the looting for basic survival needs were the LARGE part
of the looting going on. A parent taking a box of diapers doesn't make
it on the 5:00 o'clock news.

How many big screen TVs does Walmart carry compared to how many boxes
of diapers?

The ones who are taking non survival items are stealing and should be
prosecuted.

They are also in the minority.

If you don't think so, go sit up on your roof for a few days without
food and water and tell me what you want when you come down...it won't
be a big screen TV.

TMT

In article , Harold and Susan Vordos says...

I think the moral here is that we cannot count on the govenment to
help us in times of disaster - we have to rely on ourselves. Not
a real suprise.

How can you say that, Jim? Why, just last night on TV I saw that they're
talking about doing everything possible to help those folks. g

Except, actually helping them, that is.

My feeling is there's a severe lack of leadership here.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
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==================================================

I noticed the "smile" also....was he doped up?

Seriously, if you see it again check out his pupils.

.....and more than little disturbed..

Please seek help before we see you sitting on your roof on the evening
news.

On 2 Sep 2005 12:30:33 -0700, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
....and more than little disturbed..

Please seek help before we see you sitting on your roof on the evening
news.

No context. No clue who you're replying to. Not that it matters with
you lately.

Nightline was excellent last night.

Koppel was resisting the urge to crawl through the video link and smack
the FEMA guy senseless. As it was, it was the first time I have seen an
all out fight live on the news.

He caught the FEMA SOB on one lie after another.

My favorite line when the FEMA guy said that they didn't know about the
terrible situation in the SuperDome was from Koppel...."Don't you guys
watch television?" ROTFLMAO

Ted made some points in my book last night.

From what I have seen if it weren't for the live news reporting going
on to pressure the government, Bush would likely still be on vacations
and denying a hurricane happened at all. While I hate how they behave
sometimes, the news folks have been saving lives by putting the fire
under the Feds.

Nightline was excellent last night.

Koppel was resisting the urge to crawl through the video link and smack
the FEMA guy senseless. As it was, it was the first time I have seen an
all out fight live on the news.

He caught the FEMA SOB on one lie after another.

My favorite line when the FEMA guy said that they didn't know about the
terrible situation in the SuperDome was from Koppel...."Don't you guys
watch television?" ROTFLMAO

Ted made some points in my book last night.

From what I have seen if it weren't for the live news reporting going
on to pressure the government, Bush would likely still be on vacations
and denying a hurricane happened at all. While I hate how they behave
sometimes, the news folks have been saving lives by putting the fire
under the Feds.

I don't suppose you'll give a damn, but just to note that I'm probably only
one of several hundreds (maybe thousands?) of Canadians you've offended the
hell out of. Canadians of both/all political stripes, I'd guess.

Adam Smith,
Midland, ON

"Pedro" wrote in message
news:el1Se.323742$xm3.33699@attbi_s21...
snip

accountable for their mis-deeds? Give me a break you liberal ****. MOVE TO
CANADA
END OF RANT

snip

OK, I'm sorry to the Canadians for the slap in the face. Your country IS an
excellent example of how the US should be taking care of our citizens with
health care and overall support for the welfare of their citizens. The
misguided reference to Canada was simply that lawlessness in ANY society
should and must not be tolerated and if you feel that in the current
situation the victims are facing down south that "anything goes" then please
leave our US society to some other place on the earth. SORRY CANADA your are
Great Neighbors.

Store owners who open their doors and give away the food, water etc or even
who are victims themselves of people who have removed from their store the
necessities to live should simply be thankful for the opportunity to have
the store in the first place. We should open our hearts and resources to
help the people suffering in any way possible.

I stand firm in my conviction that what goes around comes around in the end.
If people are looting anything except the elements needed to survive then
they are stealing. That is very simple to understand and because some young
thugs are abusing the opportunity AND certain liberal media outlets are
sensationalizing these poor people's suffering I went off the deep-end when
I said move to Canada. Again my apologies to our friends up north.

Pedroman

"Adam Smith" wrote in message
...
I don't suppose you'll give a damn, but just to note that I'm probably
only
one of several hundreds (maybe thousands?) of Canadians you've offended
the
hell out of. Canadians of both/all political stripes, I'd guess.

Adam Smith,
Midland, ON

"Pedro" wrote in message
news:el1Se.323742$xm3.33699@attbi_s21...
snip

accountable for their mis-deeds? Give me a break you liberal ****. MOVE
TO
CANADA
END OF RANT

snip

"Looting" should be "steeling" (since it's a metalworking newsgroup
thus rendering it ON topic. However, I think what the President was
saying is that if these victims were to act civil that these items
could have been confiscated by the local government (or whomever is in
charge) and dispersed appropriatly instead of everyone for themselves.
That being said, people are people, they're not going to wait and rely
on someone else to take care of their needs since they literally have
nothing but the clothes on their bodies left. Letting people steel
necessities sort of makes sense in such circumstances, but steeling
rationaly would be better for everyone. As far as swiping electronics
and other valuables, that was simply stupid. There is no way to parlay
that into money in that area. This is a worst case scenerio that SHOULD
have been thought about (huricanes are not uncommon in that area and
they are below sea level!). Our government has given us all a false
sense of security by making us believe that there are worst case
scenerio plans set in place.(clearly, there was not) I think if i were
in that situation, a gun and ammo would have been on my looting list
first, then water and food.
The whole thing sucks and my heart breaks for ALL those people. I sent
my check out this morning.

walt

wallster wrote:
This is a worst case scenerio that SHOULD
have been thought about (huricanes are not uncommon in that area and
they are below sea level!).

And all the people who lived there knew that.
Just as all the people who live on the San Andreas Fault know about the
potential for disaster. They are gambling - big stakes - that it won't
happen in THEIR lifetime.

Our government has given us all a false
sense of security by making us believe that there are worst case
scenerio plans set in place.

Most of us hedge our bets and don't count on the government for basic
survival. As I recall, the federal government is supposed to be for
national defense and regulation of trade. I'd prefer they stuck to that,
at least until they get the hang of it.
As for the NO local government, I think we've seen the measure of
their worth. Watch you don't step on a pin from those police badges on
the sidewalk.

As for looting a gun first, shame on you if you don't already have one.

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 13:34:57 GMT, Ignoramus29984
wrote:

Let's say, for an example sake, that there is a flood in my
area. Let's further suppose that I have no food stored, or that my
house has been flooded and food is destroyed.

I have a family to feed. I break into a closed food store and
steal food. Have I committed an immoral act?

Yes. What is "moral" varies some in various religions and cultures,
but stealing isalmost universally regarded as immoral ("wrong"). A
moral person either anticipates needs, finds a moral way, or begs.

Few would not behave "imorally" if necessary to survive, but that
doesn't make it moral.

Read the previous message to this one.

Yes...the head of FEMA....or should I say the soon to be ex-head of
FEMA.

I have to remind myself that he is just one of several sheep who will
have the title of "soon to be ex-head of ".

His bosses should be and will be replaced in due time.

TMT

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
Nightline was excellent last night.

Koppel was resisting the urge to crawl through the video link and smack
the FEMA guy senseless. As it was, it was the first time I have seen an
all out fight live on the news.

He caught the FEMA SOB on one lie after another.

My favorite line when the FEMA guy said that they didn't know about the
terrible situation in the SuperDome was from Koppel...."Don't you guys
watch television?" ROTFLMAO

Ted made some points in my book last night.

From what I have seen if it weren't for the live news reporting going
on to pressure the government, Bush would likely still be on vacations
and denying a hurricane happened at all. While I hate how they behave
sometimes, the news folks have been saving lives by putting the fire
under the Feds.


Is this the same guy from FEMA who, when asked by a reporter about the
looting said,"This is not the time for that"? I couldn't help but wonder
just exactly when he thought it was the_right_time for looting.

It's not for me to speak for my countrymen, but personally, apology heartily
accepted. I admit to being surprised and heartened by your response. I
usually stay right out of the political debates in this and other fora, in
part because advise is always easier from outside, and it is Americans that
have the responsibility and cost (politically, and in all other regards) for
American policy, (not to say that the rest of the world may not take
collateral damage when you get it wrong). However in the current
circumstance, I'd like the American majority in the group to know we (our
family, in any case) have been concerned and rivetted by the events
unfolding, probably in a way that is not too different from your own
reactions. I was relieved that the Canadian Prime Minister was prompt in
offering any help that Canada could provide. I understand that the pride of
the US administration will only cause them to accept that help, if they
ireally/i feel that it will be material.

On the subject under debate I'm pretty much on both sides: I share the
reaction of many along the lines of "where is the personal responsibility"?
But I also know that we all want mercy for ourselves, even as we call for
justice for others. I can easily imagine making the (stupid) decision to
stay with my house, (I love the home I'm sitting in as I type this, which
was hard-won). It would be great if the rescue effort can arrange for the
stupid decision of many, to be fatal for the irreducible minimum.

I don't like to offer gratuitous advice, and do so seldom, but I will weigh
in with this: the people of the US should make this a uniting force rather
than a dividing one, if they can. It was partially the use of "liberal" as
an epithet in your post that I was responding to. There has been so much
demonization of the other side in recent US politics, that the public
officials have gotten off easy. I'm a conservative, in the tradition of
Edmund Burke, and a liberal in the tradition of John Mills. I'll admit to
some socialism, of the school of Tommy Douglas (a Canadian you won't have
heard of, but whose values you esposed in the first couple of sentances
quoted below. A "balanced books" socialist.) I'll admit to a dash of
Anarchism, of the schools of Kropotkin, Godwin, and Tucker (call it
"libertarian" if you prefer). 9-11 brought all Americans together, albeit
briefly, this current disaster is probably a bigger show than 9-11. Your
public officials may be too venal and self-serving to call you to pull
together in the same harness, but you should collectively call one another
to do so (and the rest of your allies, including us, as well). It is way too
easy for both of your parties to play you off against one another. I've
travelled a lot in your country, and done a fair bit of business there. I
know for a fact that Republicans and Democrats love the US, almost to a
person. It is time for conservatives to drop "liberal" as an epithet, and
for liberals to drop all the myriad epithets they have for conservatives.
And for both to condemn vigorously the public figures that divide rather
than unite you.

That is my political post for the year.

Our best wishes for you all, and especially for those in the effected
region.


Adam Smith
Midland, ON


"Pedro" wrote in message
news:fE2Se.306000$_o.219270@attbi_s71...
OK, I'm sorry to the Canadians for the slap in the face. Your country IS
an
excellent example of how the US should be taking care of our citizens with
health care and overall support for the welfare of their citizens. The
misguided reference to Canada was simply that lawlessness in ANY society
should and must not be tolerated and if you feel that in the current
situation the victims are facing down south that "anything goes" then
please
leave our US society to some other place on the earth. SORRY CANADA your
are
Great Neighbors.

Store owners who open their doors and give away the food, water etc or
even
who are victims themselves of people who have removed fro cm their store
the
necessities to live should simply be thankful for the opportunity to have
the store in the first place. We should open our hearts and resources to
help the people suffering in any way possible.

I stand firm in my conviction that what goes around comes around in the
end.
If people are looting anything except the elements needed to survive then
they are stealing. That is very simple to understand and because some
young
thugs are abusing the opportunity AND certain liberal media outlets are
sensationalizing these poor people's suffering I went off the deep-end
when
I said move to Canada. Again my apologies to our friends up north.

Pedroman

"Adam Smith" wrote in message
...
I don't suppose you'll give a damn, but just to note that I'm probably
only
one of several hundreds (maybe thousands?) of Canadians you've offended
the
hell out of. Canadians of both/all political stripes, I'd guess.

Adam Smith,
Midland, ON

"Pedro" wrote in message
news:el1Se.323742$xm3.33699@attbi_s21...
snip

accountable for their mis-deeds? Give me a break you liberal ****. MOVE
TO
CANADA
END OF RANT

snip

thanks jeff
cj

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Greg Menke wrote:

Ignoramus29984 writes:


Let's say, for an example sake, that there is a flood in my
area. Let's further suppose that I have no food stored, or that my
house has been flooded and food is destroyed.

I have a family to feed. I break into a closed food store and
steal food. Have I committed an immoral act?



Yes- but its necessary. Your choices are limited- its immoral to break
in and steal food. Its also immoral to let your family starve when food
is on the other side of the door and there are no other alternatves.
Your choice. Once your situation improves, then its time to make
reparations to the store's owner.

Gregm




Well, you just said what I was going to, especially the reparations part.

That question has been around forever though...And, from:

Bouvier's Law Dictionary
1856 Edition


MITIGATION. To make less rigorous or penal.

2. Crimes are frequently committed under circumstances which are not
justifiable nor excusable, yet they show that the offender has been
greatly tempted; as, for example, when a starving man steals bread to
satisfy his hunger, this circumstance is taken into consideration in
mitigation of his sentence.

*************************************

It was heartwarming to see the better side of humanity an hour ago when
the 20 or so members at my Rotary Club lunch reached into their wallets
and came up with over $1,000 to help those poor buggers, when the club
president brought up the subject and we passed a bucket around the tables.

I thought it better that SWMBO and I skip going out for dinner tonite
and eat at home, so that our money could help someone with nothing at
all to eat.

Jeff

RexB wrote
"And all the people who lived there knew that.
Just as all the people who live on the San Andreas Fault know about the

potential for disaster. They are gambling - big stakes - that it won't
happen in THEIR lifetime."

So if somebody lives in an area where a tornado, flood, deadly cold,
earthquake, huricane, or even a chemical leak has been possible to
experience, it's the peoples fault for living there? Gee, that doesn't
leave many places to live that are absolutely carefree, actually there
is no place like that, anywhere. There are degrees of chance but luck
is luck, you take a chance anywhere. Adding to the fact that the area
was one of the most impoverished areas in the US, i would assume most
of the people were born there. Also, during the 100+ mph winds, flying
debris, and ravaging flood water, i may have not grabbed my piece
first, so looting the gun before somebody else does seems like a good
idea. (It would suck to survive the huricane but then get shot and
killed by some junkie who needs a fix)
Actually we do count on our government for basic survival, unless
you've killed a rapist or child molester because you thought our local
government shouldn't handle it. The Federal government needs to take
action when the local government can't. That's why a National Guard
makes sense here and not providing freedom to a nation who didn't ask
for help to begin with.

"Ignoramus29984" wrote in message
...
Let's say, for an example sake, that there is a flood in my
area. Let's further suppose that I have no food stored, or that my
house has been flooded and food is destroyed.

I have a family to feed. I break into a closed food store and
steal food. Have I committed an immoral act?

No. You have committed a crime, but the circumstances might favor your
being excused for committing it. You might also earn some "Brownie points"
in the future by making restitution if/when you are able to do so.

-jc-

"Pedro" wrote in message
news:el1Se.323742$xm3.33699@attbi_s21...
Are you ****ing stupid or what mr too many tools?

Food, water, necessities are one thing for people to be scrambling for but
when the hoodlums are stealing everything from sneakers, guns, electronics
etc then those thugs deserve a slug in the head with no questions asked or
required. That is BY FAR what is being reported on our news and from
monitoring the HAM and SW broadcasts we are hearing officers being KILLED
by
these thugs while trying to rein in the civil unrest.

And this is precisely the legacy of that fascist policy we euphemistically
call "gun control". Perhaps it is an unintended consequence, but given
today's political climate I'm more inclined to believe it an INTENDED
consequence. Remember, too, that New Orleans' mayor is one of those suing
the gun MANUFACTURERS for damages attributable to crime.

Let me speculate, your home is flooded and you are sitting on your roof. A
group of less than desirables wade through the flood and break into your
home.

No, if it is I in that situation I will be armed, and they will not break
into my home unless/until I am dead.

-jc-