I want to contribute some money to an agency to help the Americans
that need it. I want the administrative a**holes getting as little as
possible.

Red Cross

Salvation Army

Who?

JohnF

"JohnF" wrote in message
...
I want to contribute some money to an agency to help the Americans
that need it. I want the administrative a**holes getting as little as
possible.

Red Cross

Salvation Army

Who?

Salvation Army gets my vote.

Bias against the Red Cross though. Use to donate blood until they banned
me.
1. Served in the Gulf first time around (Gulf war syndrome scare)
2. Lived in Europe (mad cow scare).

Funny how the government says there is no such thing as the "Gulf war
syndrome", but they do not want your blood.

Chris

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:05:47 GMT, JohnF
wrote:

I want to contribute some money to an agency to help the Americans
that need it. I want the administrative a**holes getting as little as
possible.

Red Cross

Salvation Army

Who?

JohnF
The Salvation Army pays their Director less than a limo driver makes
working for the Red Cross. The Red Cross is loaded with high salary
executives.

"nobody" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:05:47 GMT, JohnF
wrote:

I want to contribute some money to an agency to help the Americans
that need it. I want the administrative a**holes getting as little as
possible.

Red Cross

Salvation Army

Who?

JohnF
The Salvation Army pays their Director less than a limo driver makes
working for the Red Cross. The Red Cross is loaded with high salary
executives

To ad to that.....how much does Red Cross sell your donated blood for?

..

Certainly would not be the Red Cross, thats for sure

Personally I would go with Salvation Army.....

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

JohnF wrote:
I want to contribute some money to an agency to help the Americans
that need it. I want the administrative a**holes getting as little as
possible.

Red Cross

Salvation Army

Who?

JohnF

Salvation Army is a good one. During Hurricane Andrew relief effort in
Homestead, S Florida, they had a strong presence. Also can write a
check to US Treasury and note Katrina relief effort on check. Except,
this doesn't qualify for the administrative a**holes stipulation of
your post.

JohnF wrote in article
...
I want to contribute some money to an agency to help the Americans
that need it. I want the administrative a**holes getting as little as
possible.

Red Cross

Let's see......

The Red Cross siphoned donated money intended for 9-11 victim relief into
other accounts.

They take your blood without compensation and sell it for .....how much????

There are few - if any - ex-military people (especially WW II vets) who
have anything good to say about the way the Red Cross "helped" them.

My dad was a POW in Stalag 17 for 19 months and received toilet paper - not
food - from the Red Cross. He cursed them until the day he died. I would
feel very disrespectful to my father's memory if I gave money to the Red
Cross.


Salvation Army


I chose the Salvation Army ONCE for a donation of a few hundred dollars,
and was solicited at least six times per year for several years after that.
They will not ever get another cent from me.

Who?


What my wife and I have done for the last several years is to go down to
the local chain supermarket, buy a bunch of gift certificates, then give
them to leaders of local, well-established churches to distribute to the
less fortunate among their parishoners.

We've also given some certificates to the local homeless shelter and the
local food bank to buy necessary items.

I believe the small, local operations - especially the ones run by
volunteers - are far less likely to have money shrink through bureaucratic
red tape and more goes to where it was intended to go.

Just my opinion.........

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 14:56:51 -0500, * wrote:

Let's see......
They take your blood without compensation and sell it for .....how much????

Right. Because they _force bleed_ people on the streets. Why, those
press gangs of wandering phlebotomists are a right menace, they are.
And of course, testing, storing, testing, delivery, and testing of the
blood supply doesn't cost a thing.

There are few - if any - ex-military people (especially WW II vets) who
have anything good to say about the way the Red Cross "helped" them.

Hm. We've had quite a few housefires where the families, and our
department, were helped out quite a bit during and after the fire.
By the Red Cross. Who also trains our EMTs... You know, EMTs? The
people you might need help from some day?

My dad was a POW in Stalag 17 for 19 months and received toilet paper - not
food - from the Red Cross. He cursed them until the day he died. I would
feel very disrespectful to my father's memory if I gave money to the Red
Cross.

So, because the nazis may have picked through the packages before they
gave them to the POWs, ah, never mind. Obviously your mind is made up.

Salvation Army
I chose the Salvation Army ONCE for a donation of a few hundred dollars,
and was solicited at least six times per year for several years after that.
They will not ever get another cent from me.

I see a pattern here. You're impossible to please. Funny, isn't it,
how people who hide behind anonymity are often the ones who are the
hardest to deal with.

What my wife and I have done for the last several years is to go down to
the local chain supermarket, buy a bunch of gift certificates, then give
them to leaders of local, well-established churches to distribute to the
less fortunate among their parishoners.
We've also given some certificates to the local homeless shelter and the
local food bank to buy necessary items.

Some of us just do our charitable deeds and don't see the need to crow
about them on the Internet.

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 14:56:51 -0500, * wrote:

Let's see......
They take your blood without compensation and sell it for .....how
much????

Right. Because they _force bleed_ people on the streets. Why, those
press gangs of wandering phlebotomists are a right menace, they are.
And of course, testing, storing, testing, delivery, and testing of the
blood supply doesn't cost a thing.

There are few - if any - ex-military people (especially WW II vets) who
have anything good to say about the way the Red Cross "helped" them.

ex-military here and I want nothing to do with the Red Cross. In a war-zone
I actually saw Red Cross packages for the enemy POWs nothing for the US
troops.

Had a friend while in the service have his brother die suddendly. Took Red
Cross 4 days to confirm the paper work to allow the Army to let him home.
Suppose to take 24 hours. Poor guy was so upset at the time they put him on
suicide watch.


Hm. We've had quite a few housefires where the families, and our
department, were helped out quite a bit during and after the fire.
By the Red Cross. Who also trains our EMTs... You know, EMTs? The
people you might need help from some day?

As a youngster had a house burn completely to the ground. Three people in
the hospital. No Red Cross to be found.

Care to share how much the Red Cross "charged" you for this training
service?

My dad was a POW in Stalag 17 for 19 months and received toilet paper -
not
food - from the Red Cross. He cursed them until the day he died. I would
feel very disrespectful to my father's memory if I gave money to the Red
Cross.

So, because the nazis may have picked through the packages before they
gave them to the POWs, ah, never mind. Obviously your mind is made u
Salvation Army

Red Cross packages are SEALED. They stole the whole package if anything.
Would of been obvious to his father if they were opened. Or do you make it
a sport to doubt veterans?? You should be thankful for his father's
service, or you might very well have a Nazi stealing from you as well.

Or how about my neighbor a WWII POW vet, who curses the Red Cross because
they mad him pay for the cigarettes they sent over. Should we doubt him
too?

Some of us just do our charitable deeds and don't see the need to crow
about them on the Internet.

So why does the Red Cross calling me telling all that they have "done".

You obivisiouly did not see the scandal that Bill O'Reily broke on TV,
shortly after all the 9/11 crap that the Red-Cross did.

Even worse they rode on the tails of 9/11 for a while begging people to give
blood. All the while they were chucking it at the same time because they
ran out of room, storage, testing, etc. Why? Because once they got you in
the door, they hit you up for money as well.

In article , Chris says...

Even worse they rode on the tails of 9/11 for a while begging people to give
blood.

Oddly I don't recall red cross appeals for blood, certainly after the
first day or so. It was very apparent at that point that folks mostly
either walked away or were dead.

Everyone *wanted* to give blood. Around here they were turned away.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Chris says...

Even worse they rode on the tails of 9/11 for a while begging people to
give
blood.

Oddly I don't recall red cross appeals for blood, certainly after the
first day or so. It was very apparent at that point that folks mostly
either walked away or were dead.

Everyone *wanted* to give blood. Around here they were turned away.

Jim


Jim,

My story came from a nurse at the Boston chapter. She stopped volunteering
shortly after that. Just might not be at all places, as each chapter is
different and completely / somewhat independent from what I know.

She did mention that the blood they did collect just sat there. Never
picked up. Eventually was thrown away or what every they do with old blood.

Do hope they did not throw it in a dumpster. I could only imagine the dump
truck leaking blood after pick up.

Chris

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:46:31 -0400, Chris wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...

Had a friend while in the service have his brother die suddendly. Took Red
Cross 4 days to confirm the paper work to allow the Army to let him home.
Suppose to take 24 hours. Poor guy was so upset at the time they put him on
suicide watch.

OK, ?

Hm. We've had quite a few housefires where the families, and our
department, were helped out quite a bit during and after the fire.
By the Red Cross. Who also trains our EMTs... You know, EMTs? The
people you might need help from some day?

As a youngster had a house burn completely to the ground. Three people in
the hospital. No Red Cross to be found.

Hm. They show up any time we ask for them. Maybe your fire department
didn't, you know, ask for them?

Care to share how much the Red Cross "charged" you for this training
service?

Volunteer trainers. I know you really, really want to hate them or
something, but I'm afraid I can't give you anything additional.

My dad was a POW in Stalag 17 for 19 months and received toilet paper -
not
food - from the Red Cross. He cursed them until the day he died. I would
feel very disrespectful to my father's memory if I gave money to the Red
Cross.

So, because the nazis may have picked through the packages before they
gave them to the POWs, ah, never mind. Obviously your mind is made u
Salvation Army

Red Cross packages are SEALED. They stole the whole package if anything.

Are you the same person as *, or someone different? It's so hard to
tell.

Would of been obvious to his father if they were opened. Or do you make it
a sport to doubt veterans??

Given that you didn't _SAY_ earlier that they were sealed packages, it's
a bit unrealistic for you to now claim I'm disbelieving information you
didn't even provide previously. Oh - and if there was food, would the
packages have got there at all? Too much information you haven't
provided, and quite frankly, you're kind of a suspect source at this
point anyway.

You should be thankful for his father's
service, or you might very well have a Nazi stealing from you as well.

I am. You, on the other hand, I don't have much respect for. Nice
attitude there, sport.

Or how about my neighbor a WWII POW vet, who curses the Red Cross because
they mad him pay for the cigarettes they sent over. Should we doubt him
too?

Dunno. Got anything from _this_ century, as like the examples that I've
given?

Some of us just do our charitable deeds and don't see the need to crow
about them on the Internet.

So why does the Red Cross calling me telling all that they have "done".

Hard to say. I don't get those calls. (shrug). Maybe they just like
you.

You obivisiouly did not see the scandal that Bill O'Reily broke on TV,
shortly after all the 9/11 crap that the Red-Cross did.

Even worse they rode on the tails of 9/11 for a while begging people to give
blood. All the while they were chucking it at the same time because they
ran out of room, storage, testing, etc. Why?

Why? You thundering ****ing moron. Because people like me went to the
red cross that day, donated blood in the _hopes that there would be
survivors_. There weren't any, remember?

Because once they got you in
the door, they hit you up for money as well.

I've never been asked for a monetary donation when giving blood.
Obviously your feelings are deep-seated, and the "facts" you seem to be
claiming are in direct contradiction with my own direct personal
experience. I will , er, give them exactly the consideration they are
due. But, tell you what. Feel free to rant, as long as you don't mind
if I feel free not to care.

In article , Chris says...

My story came from a nurse at the Boston chapter. She stopped volunteering
shortly after that. Just might not be at all places, as each chapter is
different and completely / somewhat independent from what I know.

She did mention that the blood they did collect just sat there. Never
picked up. Eventually was thrown away or what every they do with old blood.

Human blood is only good for a small period of time after it's
donated. After that they have to throw it away.

In the NY metro area, they began telling folks to not show up, and
to refuse them when they did show up to donate. Because there
was such a huge response, they filled their needs (which were not
much larger than their usual needs I suspect) right away.

They can't save it. They didn't ask for it. They can't make
bloodwurst out of it. So it is discarded as a matter of course.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Chris wrote:
"nobody" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:05:47 GMT, JohnF
wrote:


I want to contribute some money to an agency to help the Americans
that need it. I want the administrative a**holes getting as little as
possible.

Red Cross

Salvation Army

Who?

JohnF

The Salvation Army pays their Director less than a limo driver makes
working for the Red Cross. The Red Cross is loaded with high salary
executives


To ad to that.....how much does Red Cross sell your donated blood for?


Think of it as an investment; if you donate and then happen to have the
misfortune to need blood, it's there and you don't get charged for it.

John

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:46:31 -0400, Chris wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...

Had a friend while in the service have his brother die suddendly. Took
Red
Cross 4 days to confirm the paper work to allow the Army to let him home.
Suppose to take 24 hours. Poor guy was so upset at the time they put him
on
suicide watch.

OK, ?

Hm. We've had quite a few housefires where the families, and our
department, were helped out quite a bit during and after the fire.
By the Red Cross. Who also trains our EMTs... You know, EMTs? The
people you might need help from some day?

As a youngster had a house burn completely to the ground. Three people
in
the hospital. No Red Cross to be found.

Hm. They show up any time we ask for them. Maybe your fire department
didn't, you know, ask for them?

Care to share how much the Red Cross "charged" you for this training
service?

Volunteer trainers. I know you really, really want to hate them or
something, but I'm afraid I can't give you anything additional.

My dad was a POW in Stalag 17 for 19 months and received toilet paper -
not
food - from the Red Cross. He cursed them until the day he died. I
would
feel very disrespectful to my father's memory if I gave money to the
Red
Cross.

So, because the nazis may have picked through the packages before they
gave them to the POWs, ah, never mind. Obviously your mind is made u
Salvation Army

Red Cross packages are SEALED. They stole the whole package if anything.

Are you the same person as *, or someone different? It's so hard to
tell.

Given that you didn't _SAY_ earlier that they were sealed packages, it's
a bit unrealistic for you to now claim I'm disbelieving information you
didn't even provide previously. Oh - and if there was food, would the
packages have got there at all? Too much information you haven't
provided, and quite frankly, you're kind of a suspect source at this
point anyway.

I was not the oriignal person who told it. Maybe the original poster can
post all the info, like his name, rank, unit, date of birth etc.... would
that make it more valid? Obiously you never served as it is somewhat known
throughout the services. The man spent serious time in a POW camp, I have
no reason to doubt him. For most servicemen and women the Red Cross is a
joke.


Dunno. Got anything from _this_ century, as like the examples that I've
given?

9/11 and the missing money. Congress still looking at it today.


Some of us just do our charitable deeds and don't see the need to crow
about them on the Internet.

So why does the Red Cross calling me telling all that they have "done".

Hard to say. I don't get those calls. (shrug). Maybe they just like
you.

You obivisiouly did not see the scandal that Bill O'Reily broke on TV,
shortly after all the 9/11 crap that the Red-Cross did.

Even worse they rode on the tails of 9/11 for a while begging people to
give
blood. All the while they were chucking it at the same time because they
ran out of room, storage, testing, etc. Why?

Why? You thundering ****ing moron. Because people like me went to the
red cross that day, donated blood in the _hopes that there would be
survivors_. There weren't any, remember?

Is cursing and insulting your way of getting through?

They knew all too well when they should of turned people away. I think this
was part of the investigation as well. Not all chapters but some.


I am. You, on the other hand, I don't have much respect for. Nice
attitude there, sport.

Not looking for your respect. Actually losing it is somewhat a compliment.
Thanks.
Because once they got you in
the door, they hit you up for money as well.

Yes the local fire department did call. Small town so it made the paper
too. No Red Cross, nor do I really care at this point. Fire department was
nice enough to go drive to the Red Cross and get that spray that can take
the smoke out of what was left.

Red Cross has a long history of trouble. Best to drive down to LA and hand
out money. Save for that give to the Salvation Army.

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:33:37 -0400, wrote:

Well, a while back Liz Dole ran the AMC for the tune of 400K a year
before she did the hillary thing and became Senator from a state she
wasn't long time resident of.

This reminds you of Bush-I, Bush-II & the guy in Florida does it?
--
Cliff

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:27:26 -0400, Chris wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...

Red Cross packages are SEALED. They stole the whole package if anything.

Are you the same person as *, or someone different? It's so hard to
tell.

Given that you didn't _SAY_ earlier that they were sealed packages, it's
a bit unrealistic for you to now claim I'm disbelieving information you
didn't even provide previously. Oh - and if there was food, would the
packages have got there at all? Too much information you haven't
provided, and quite frankly, you're kind of a suspect source at this
point anyway.

I was not the oriignal person who told it. Maybe the original poster can
post all the info, like his name, rank, unit, date of birth etc.... would
that make it more valid?

How can you accuse me of questioning the validity, of something which
wasn't said until after I asked my question?!??!?!

Obiously you never served as it is somewhat known
throughout the services. The man spent serious time in a POW camp, I have
no reason to doubt him. For most servicemen and women the Red Cross is a
joke.

It may have been a case of "they won't let anything through if we send
food, so we'll send whatever we can that will be useful". I don't know
the specifics, and neither, I suspect, do you.

Dunno. Got anything from _this_ century, as like the examples that I've
given?

9/11 and the missing money. Congress still looking at it today.

Well then, get back to us once they've finished "looking at it" there,
sparky.

Even worse they rode on the tails of 9/11 for a while begging people to
give
blood. All the while they were chucking it at the same time because they
ran out of room, storage, testing, etc. Why?

Why? You thundering ****ing moron. Because people like me went to the
red cross that day, donated blood in the _hopes that there would be
survivors_. There weren't any, remember?

Is cursing and insulting your way of getting through?

Logic doesn't seem to be working now, does it.

They knew all too well when they should of turned people away.

They did, almost immediately.

I think this
was part of the investigation as well. Not all chapters but some.

Sounds like a local, rather than an organizational problem. There, you
answered your own rant.

I am. You, on the other hand, I don't have much respect for. Nice
attitude there, sport.

Not looking for your respect. Actually losing it is somewhat a compliment.
Thanks.

love you too, baby.

Because once they got you in
the door, they hit you up for money as well.

Yes the local fire department did call. Small town so it made the paper
too. No Red Cross, nor do I really care at this point. Fire department was
nice enough to go drive to the Red Cross and get that spray that can take
the smoke out of what was left.

My direct personal recent experience differs from your interpretation of
events in the (distant?) past.

Red Cross has a long history of trouble. Best to drive down to LA and hand
out money. Save for that give to the Salvation Army.

I thought you said you didn't like them either. Or was that "*"?
Whatever.

I want to contribute some money to an agency to help the Americans
that need it. I want the administrative a**holes getting as little as
possible.

Red Cross

Salvation Army

Who?

JohnF
Salvation Army first - then *any other outfit OTHER than the Red
Cross*.... providing the Red Cross hasn't somehow managed to dip their
pinkies into the other organizations donations (like United Fund...)
Ken.

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 14:56:51 -0500, * wrote:

Let's see......
They take your blood without compensation and sell it for .....how
much????

Right. Because they _force bleed_ people on the streets. Why, those
press gangs of wandering phlebotomists are a right menace, they are.
And of course, testing, storing, testing, delivery, and testing of the
blood supply doesn't cost a thing.

Actually the storage and testing cost very little per liter. The last
number I heard was 13 dollars per liter. They then break the blood down
into components and use those. Whole blood is seldom used any more.


There are few - if any - ex-military people (especially WW II vets)
who
have anything good to say about the way the Red Cross "helped" them.

Hm. We've had quite a few housefires where the families, and our
department, were helped out quite a bit during and after the fire.
By the Red Cross. Who also trains our EMTs... You know, EMTs? The
people you might need help from some day?

As an EMT in NY I can tell you the Red Cross has NOTHING to do with my
training. It is paid for by the FD or ambulance corp. The training is
controlled by the hospital that sponsors the Central New York EMS
providers. (Saint Lukes in Utica is ours). I paid for my own books and
training the first time (1800.00 total).


My dad was a POW in Stalag 17 for 19 months and received toilet
paper - not
food - from the Red Cross. He cursed them until the day he died. I
would
feel very disrespectful to my father's memory if I gave money to the
Red
Cross.


Have heard the same thing from a LOT of former service personnel who
were screwed by the RC. My uncle was one of them. He had been "given"
money by the RC because of a payroll problem. When he was discharged
they refused to allow the paperwork to go through until he repaid the RC
for the money he was given.


Salvation Army
I chose the Salvation Army ONCE for a donation of a few hundred
dollars,
and was solicited at least six times per year for several years
after that.
They will not ever get another cent from me.

I see a pattern here. You're impossible to please. Funny, isn't it,
how people who hide behind anonymity are often the ones who are the
hardest to deal with.

What my wife and I have done for the last several years is to go
down to
the local chain supermarket, buy a bunch of gift certificates, then
give
them to leaders of local, well-established churches to distribute to
the
less fortunate among their parishoners.
We've also given some certificates to the local homeless shelter and
the
local food bank to buy necessary items.

Some of us just do our charitable deeds and don't see the need to crow
about them on the Internet.




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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"Steve W." wrote in message
...


Have heard the same thing from a LOT of former service personnel who
were screwed by the RC. My uncle was one of them. He had been "given"
money by the RC because of a payroll problem. When he was discharged
they refused to allow the paperwork to go through until he repaid the RC
for the money he was given.


If I remember correctly those loans also come with a hefty interest. I do
remember hearing the rate once, almost fell over. Much better rate at the
bank.

--
Chris

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a
soldier. If it is in ebonics, thank your Congressman.

"Chris" wrote in message
...



If I remember correctly those loans also come with a hefty interest. I do
remember hearing the rate once, almost fell over. Much better rate at the
bank.

--
Chris

Afterthought (before I get jumped on).

I do remember something about an interest free loan from RC, but as I recall
they are very hard to get, and take to long to get approved, thus most just
take the interest one.

Might be wrong though.

I do remember the loans from RC being more a less a joke. Mostly people who
were bad at money and could not get a loan from a bank, went there as a last
resort.

--
Chris

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a
soldier. If it is in ebonics, thank your Congressman.

Either group would probably be fine, but I would definitely specify for
Katrina Disaster Relief only. That is how my donation to the Red Cross is
going.


"JohnF" wrote in message
...
I want to contribute some money to an agency to help the Americans
that need it. I want the administrative a**holes getting as little as
possible.

Red Cross

Salvation Army

Who?

JohnF

http://www.charitynavigator.org/inde...8/cpid/310.htm
don't actually know anything about the site.
Karl

"JohnF" wrote in message
...
I want to contribute some money to an agency to help the Americans
that need it. I want the administrative a**holes getting as little as
possible.

Red Cross

Salvation Army

Who?

JohnF

In article , "Chris" wrote:

Red Cross has a long history of trouble. Best to drive down to LA and hand
out money. Save for that give to the Salvation Army.

It's best to give to someone you know. Salvation army is 2nd and I
don't know if there is even a 3rd.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

Salvation Army without a doubt. The ARC has screwed me over several
times during emergencies. Just ask a Korean Vet if you have any doubts.
Bugs

"Bugs" wrote:

Salvation Army without a doubt. The ARC has screwed me over several
times during emergencies. Just ask a Korean Vet if you have any doubts.
Bugs

My first wife's uncle was shot down behind enemy lines over Italy
during WWII. He spent a year hiding out, and when he found the Red
Cross they refused to help him because he'd lost his dog tags. He told
me that story 35 years later and was still steamed at them.

-B

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 14:56:51 -0500, * wrote:


I see a pattern here. You're impossible to please. Funny, isn't it,
how people who hide behind anonymity are often the ones who are the
hardest to deal with.


Some of us just do our charitable deeds and don't see the need to crow
about them on the Internet.



Only a true ****ing moron - or someone trying to instigate trouble - would
interpret an answer to the OP's question as either a complaint or bragging.

Opinions were solicited by the OP, and opinions were given...........by me
and several others.

YOU do not have to agree with ANY of the opinions.........

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:31:36 -0500, * wrote:

Only a true ****ing moron - or someone trying to instigate trouble - would
interpret an answer to the OP's question as either a complaint or bragging.

Complete and total absence of response to anything in the actual message
noted.

JohnF wrote:
I want to contribute some money to an agency to help the Americans
that need it. I want the administrative a**holes getting as little as
possible.

Red Cross

Salvation Army

Who?

JohnF


One very valid organization to donate to is CERF, Craft Emergency Relief
Fund. (http://www.craftemergency.org/). This is an organization with
an excellent track record, that support artists through disasters like
fires, floods, etc.

Several of my friends who have had disasters happen to them over the
years have been helped by them. CERF has helped them with low interest
loans to rebuild homes, studios, lives.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

That doesn't mean doodly, they will take the money from another fund and put
yours in.

As a former GI I wouldn't give the RC the time of day.

--

Clif Holland KA5IPF
www.avvid.com


"Grady" wrote in message
newsQuRe.16831$Sj1.15346@okepread04...
Either group would probably be fine, but I would definitely specify for
Katrina Disaster Relief only. That is how my donation to the Red Cross is
going.


"JohnF" wrote in message
...
I want to contribute some money to an agency to help the Americans
that need it. I want the administrative a**holes getting as little as
possible.

Red Cross

Salvation Army

Who?

JohnF

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 16:54:57 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Cliff wrote:

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 12:50:31 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Cliff wrote:

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:35:28 GMT, Bing wrote:

If you can find a dropoff cite for things like water, blankets, food etc
then IMO thats the best way to go

That's the LAST thing they *need*.

because I think yer taking the money
equation out of the beaurocrasy.

Send money. Then what's actually NEEDED can be
purchased as & where needed.

After all, it's not like the neocons or the shrubbie are
doing much .... or seem to have done any planning
with their homeland insecurity .....


Gee Cliffy, I though even you might show a little class and be
constructive in the face of a significant natural disaster. Guess you
don't have even the slightest bit of class...

Pete C.

Money will help.
Your old junk, unless you live nearby, is not likely to
and they don't have the resources right now to come
& get it anyway.

The neocons are doing little enough it seems. After
all, who wants the government to interfere?

When is bush going back on vacation? He's out stumping
to refill his coffers now it seems, having (briefly) overflown
the sights.
--
Cliff

Based on the numerous previous smaller disasters that have occurred in
the US, I would expect most of the trucking companies are already
coordinating to truck donated supplies to the area at cost or free.

Purchased relief supplies, perhaps.
Where would you expect their replacement furnishings to go?

We now have perhaps a million people (anyone have a good number?)
lacking homes to go back to or jobs. All need to be relocated.
Will there be a housing shortage?
What of their property & bank records & suchlike?

How many actually had federal FLOOD insurance? Normal
insurance will cover about none of the water damages.

With donating goods or personal services (i.e. got there and help) there
is far less opportunity to relief agency mismanagement /
misappropriation.

The neocons are willing & able, right?
When YOU get there you are going to live & eat & drink & go
to the bathroom exactly where?

Which immunizations do you alreadty have?

The head of the relief agency isn't going to be able
to buy themselves a new company BMW with the pallet of diapers you
donate.

Which would be wasted.

As for the government, they seem to be doing exactly what they are
supposed to be doing. FEMA, the agency that is supposed to plan for and
manage emergencies such as this is certainly there assessing and
coordinating as they are supposed to do. Various military units are in
the area bringing in supplies and bringing out the survivors. The Army
folks are working to repair the levies. The only complaint I've heard is
that they diverted some helicopters to rescuing people from rooftops
instead of working on the levee repairs.

What exactly do you think the government should be doing to help the
Katrina recovery that they aren't already doing?

Pete C.
--
Cliff

"JohnF" wrote in message
...
I want to contribute some money to an agency to help the Americans
that need it. I want the administrative a**holes getting as little as
possible.

Red Cross

Salvation Army

Who?

JohnF

The Escapees RV Club, Inc. has one of its common interest groups called
DOVE which stands for Disaster Operations Volunteer Escapees (the Doves
BOF). These angels have all been through extensive Red Cross training
for disaster relief. They have made a difference after hurrricanes,
floods and other disasters. They arrive in their own RVs and bring their
own water, provisions and power so that they are not taking any
resources from the people they are there to help. They are accepting
contributions which will go to the disaster relief projects they are
assigned to. (they refused to accept donations for their own costs of
fuel, bless them.)

The Escapees E-News, today published this address to send donations to.

Send contributions to:
CC Ramsey, 113 Rainbow Dr., #1331, Livingston, TX 77399-1013.

I believe the checks should be payable to DOVE BoF.

Please feel free to contact the Escapees RV Club, Inc. either by phone
or at their website www.escapees.com for verification.

Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 16:54:57 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:


Cliff wrote:

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 12:50:31 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:


Cliff wrote:

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:35:28 GMT, Bing wrote:


If you can find a dropoff cite for things like water, blankets, food etc
then IMO thats the best way to go

That's the LAST thing they *need*.


because I think yer taking the money
equation out of the beaurocrasy.

Send money. Then what's actually NEEDED can be
purchased as & where needed.

After all, it's not like the neocons or the shrubbie are
doing much .... or seem to have done any planning
with their homeland insecurity .....

Gee Cliffy, I though even you might show a little class and be
constructive in the face of a significant natural disaster. Guess you
don't have even the slightest bit of class...

Pete C.

Money will help.
Your old junk, unless you live nearby, is not likely to
and they don't have the resources right now to come
& get it anyway.

The neocons are doing little enough it seems. After
all, who wants the government to interfere?

When is bush going back on vacation? He's out stumping
to refill his coffers now it seems, having (briefly) overflown
the sights.
--
Cliff

Based on the numerous previous smaller disasters that have occurred in
the US, I would expect most of the trucking companies are already
coordinating to truck donated supplies to the area at cost or free.


Purchased relief supplies, perhaps.
Where would you expect their replacement furnishings to go?

We now have perhaps a million people (anyone have a good number?)
lacking homes to go back to or jobs. All need to be relocated.
Will there be a housing shortage?
What of their property & bank records & suchlike?

How many actually had federal FLOOD insurance? Normal
insurance will cover about none of the water damages.


With donating goods or personal services (i.e. got there and help) there
is far less opportunity to relief agency mismanagement /
misappropriation.


The neocons are willing & able, right?
When YOU get there you are going to live & eat & drink & go
to the bathroom exactly where?

Which immunizations do you alreadty have?


The head of the relief agency isn't going to be able
to buy themselves a new company BMW with the pallet of diapers you
donate.


Which would be wasted.


As for the government, they seem to be doing exactly what they are
supposed to be doing. FEMA, the agency that is supposed to plan for and
manage emergencies such as this is certainly there assessing and
coordinating as they are supposed to do. Various military units are in
the area bringing in supplies and bringing out the survivors. The Army
folks are working to repair the levies. The only complaint I've heard is
that they diverted some helicopters to rescuing people from rooftops
instead of working on the levee repairs.

What exactly do you think the government should be doing to help the
Katrina recovery that they aren't already doing?

Pete C.


Cliff you are a ****ing idiot. Okay drop in an Airborne division.
Where are they going to get their food, fuel, medical supplies. Do you
know how many ton's of supplies it takes to support an airborne division
in the field. (Obviously not)

Secondly have you looked at a ****ing map and looked the highways into
and out of New Orleans. Only one 4 lane highway is not blocked by down
bridges. Have you seen how many rescue boats have been sunk or damaged
by the debris in the water. Obviously not.

Last but not least, where are the big ships. Well were are they going
to get the power to raise the draw bridges so the big ships can pass???

If you would you your ****ing head for something other than sticking up
your ass you might be able to take part in a intelligent conversation
about what is needed.

--
3rd Commandment of the Church of Pope Secola VI

If thine enemy smite thee on the left cheek,
offer him up, 8 inches of cold steel in his belly.

Cliff wrote:

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 16:54:57 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Cliff wrote:

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 12:50:31 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Cliff wrote:

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:35:28 GMT, Bing wrote:

If you can find a dropoff cite for things like water, blankets, food etc
then IMO thats the best way to go

That's the LAST thing they *need*.

because I think yer taking the money
equation out of the beaurocrasy.

Send money. Then what's actually NEEDED can be
purchased as & where needed.

After all, it's not like the neocons or the shrubbie are
doing much .... or seem to have done any planning
with their homeland insecurity .....


Gee Cliffy, I though even you might show a little class and be
constructive in the face of a significant natural disaster. Guess you
don't have even the slightest bit of class...

Pete C.

Money will help.
Your old junk, unless you live nearby, is not likely to
and they don't have the resources right now to come
& get it anyway.

The neocons are doing little enough it seems. After
all, who wants the government to interfere?

When is bush going back on vacation? He's out stumping
to refill his coffers now it seems, having (briefly) overflown
the sights.
--
Cliff

Based on the numerous previous smaller disasters that have occurred in
the US, I would expect most of the trucking companies are already
coordinating to truck donated supplies to the area at cost or free.

Purchased relief supplies, perhaps.
Where would you expect their replacement furnishings to go?

How about to the stadiums that are being used to house the refugees?
Last time I looked places like the Astrodome weren't setup for people to
live in. They certainly aren't going to be putting 75,000 people up in
hotels. They will need plenty of "furnishings", blankets, etc. for a
fair amount of time until people can be disbursed to longer term
accommodations.


We now have perhaps a million people (anyone have a good number?)
lacking homes to go back to or jobs. All need to be relocated.

That is indeed a problem, but not one we need to focus on today or
tomorrow. Probably 30 days out after the more immediate concerns are
addressed.

Will there be a housing shortage?

There already is a housing shortage. Hopefully a reasonable percentage
of the refugees have some relatives that will be able to take them in
for a while.

What of their property & bank records & suchlike?

What property? Their property for the most part is gone. Bank records
and similar are stored on computers last time I looked (today) and are
readily retrievable.


How many actually had federal FLOOD insurance? Normal
insurance will cover about none of the water damages.

Well, if they were living in New Orleans and had a mortgage they
certainly had flood insurance. If those without mortgages chose to do
without flood insurance they will simply have to take responsibility for
that choice. Those who simply could not afford flood insurance have a
lot of paperwork to look forward to in order to try to get assistance.


With donating goods or personal services (i.e. got there and help) there
is far less opportunity to relief agency mismanagement /
misappropriation.

The neocons are willing & able, right?

Well, if you're including religious groups on the "neocon" list then,
yes, most certainly. In fact looking at a FEMA list of relief agencies
currently working in the area, it's abundantly clear that most are in
fact religious groups. Being a devout atheist myself, I find it rather
distressing that there are so few non religious relief groups to donate
to.

When YOU get there you are going to live & eat & drink & go
to the bathroom exactly where?

Um, perhaps in the same camps with the other relief workers?


Which immunizations do you alreadty have?

Not sure how relevant this is currently. Most folks have the standard
batch of immunizations, and at this point the disaster area hasn't quite
reached the point where it's an immediate concern. Certainly will reach
that point fairly soon if they aren't able to pickup the bodies and get
things draining.


The head of the relief agency isn't going to be able
to buy themselves a new company BMW with the pallet of diapers you
donate.

Which would be wasted.

Exactly how would said pallet of diapers be wasted? Every picture I've
seen on CNN or any other source has shown plenty of people with infants
who will indeed need diapers.


As for the government, they seem to be doing exactly what they are
supposed to be doing. FEMA, the agency that is supposed to plan for and
manage emergencies such as this is certainly there assessing and
coordinating as they are supposed to do. Various military units are in
the area bringing in supplies and bringing out the survivors. The Army
folks are working to repair the levies. The only complaint I've heard is
that they diverted some helicopters to rescuing people from rooftops
instead of working on the levee repairs.

What exactly do you think the government should be doing to help the
Katrina recovery that they aren't already doing?

Pete C.
--
Cliff

I see you have no answer to what the government you so despise should be
doing to help the Katrina recovery that they aren't already. Very easy
for you to sit around and attack the actions of others, a bit more
difficult to come up with anything constructive eh?

Pete C.

So much has been said about placing blame, global warming, the price of
gasoline,
etc...What about the refugees in New Orleans? Is it such a good idea to
send 20,000 of them to the Astrodome in Houston? This has to be a
temporary solution. Many of these refugees may never have a home again
in New Orleans. Let's face it, 90% or more of these refugees are poor
minorities with no hope or jobs...This would be a good opportunity for
us in "blue" states to open our hearts and doors to them. Instead of
housing 20,000+ of them in the Astrodome; why can't we take 1000 or
more of them to EACH state in states from Washington to Maine. This
would be a good opportunity for all of us to experience some
multi-cultural diversity! (Somewhere Ted Kennedy is smiling at the
idea...)

On 1 Sep 2005 20:12:34 -0700, "StatHaldol"
wrote:

So much has been said about placing blame, global warming, the price of
gasoline,
etc...What about the refugees in New Orleans? Is it such a good idea to
send 20,000 of them to the Astrodome in Houston? This has to be a
temporary solution. Many of these refugees may never have a home again
in New Orleans. Let's face it, 90% or more of these refugees are poor
minorities with no hope or jobs...This would be a good opportunity for
us in "blue" states to open our hearts and doors to them. Instead of
housing 20,000+ of them in the Astrodome; why can't we take 1000 or
more of them to EACH state in states from Washington to Maine. This
would be a good opportunity for all of us to experience some
multi-cultural diversity! (Somewhere Ted Kennedy is smiling at the
idea...)


PLEASE take em to the Blue states! They will increase your voting
roles, add diversity and be an interesting adjunct to your population.

We in the Red State know that you will treasure and keep them in the
same hidious poverty they have been kept in by Democrats while living
in New Orleans. A whole new group of poor, hopeless and often
illiterate ghetto minorities to call your very own and to keep under
your thumb, and be kept helpless, hopeless and frankly..stupid.

Mind you..it may take a while to learn to understand their language.
While fascinating to listen to, Creole spiced with Ebonics, with a
ghetto Cajun flavor does take some getting used to.

On the other hand....

We have an illegal alien problem, which is generally caused by poor
inforcement and the fact employers want workers cheap.

We have about 1.8 million homeless as a result of Katrina.

Pass a law, that any employer that hires a refugee (and an ID card
must be provided to prove it) will get to deduct their entire wage
costs, insurance, medical, training and so forth from the net taxes
they have to pay each quarter, for the next 5 yrs.

This will encourage the employer to hire the refugees, which puts them
to work, will encourage the employer to train them and turn those
people into skilled workers.

This means that they get them as FREE workers, because their costs are
deducted from their taxes. The illegal aliens will be fired virtually
over night, and will be forced to leave the country simply because of
lack of work.

The refugees will become trained, have an income not involveing
welfare and will be able to buy or rent their own homes..homes vacated
by the illegals.

Two birds with one stone.

No..dont thank me. Just send me a grant to study the social dynamics
as poor southern blacks are introduced to Northeastern Blueneck
Liberal Racists and are intergrated into your society.

Perhaps Sen KKK Byrd might like a few of the High Yeller ones as
housekeepers?

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 18:57:15 -0700, Pope Secola VI
wrote:

Cliff you are a ****ing idiot. Okay drop in an Airborne division.

Like using the Rapid Deploment forces?
Where are they?

Where are they going to get their food, fuel, medical supplies. Do you
know how many ton's of supplies it takes to support an airborne division
in the field. (Obviously not)

Gee .. I wonder what the military has stockpiled .... or someone
can get to an airfield in a few hours ..

Secondly have you looked at a ****ing map and looked the highways into
and out of New Orleans. Only one 4 lane highway is not blocked by down
bridges. Have you seen how many rescue boats have been sunk or damaged
by the debris in the water. Obviously not.

So they did no planning?
Where are ALL the helicopters in the US, not needed
by hospitals as it is?

Last but not least, where are the big ships. Well were are they going
to get the power to raise the draw bridges so the big ships can pass???

Big ships go under drawbridges? To get to the Port of New Orleans
& to the Mississippi?

My map only shows US 90 crossing the river .... here's the
bridge:
http://www.inetours.com/New_Orleans/...ise/Bridge.jpg


If you would you your ****ing head for something other than sticking up
your ass you might be able to take part in a intelligent conversation
about what is needed.

"WMDs"?
--
Cliff

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 02:45:57 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Cliff wrote:

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 16:54:57 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Cliff wrote:

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 12:50:31 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Cliff wrote:

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:35:28 GMT, Bing wrote:

If you can find a dropoff cite for things like water, blankets, food etc
then IMO thats the best way to go

That's the LAST thing they *need*.

because I think yer taking the money
equation out of the beaurocrasy.

Send money. Then what's actually NEEDED can be
purchased as & where needed.

After all, it's not like the neocons or the shrubbie are
doing much .... or seem to have done any planning
with their homeland insecurity .....


Gee Cliffy, I though even you might show a little class and be
constructive in the face of a significant natural disaster. Guess you
don't have even the slightest bit of class...

Pete C.

Money will help.
Your old junk, unless you live nearby, is not likely to
and they don't have the resources right now to come
& get it anyway.

The neocons are doing little enough it seems. After
all, who wants the government to interfere?

When is bush going back on vacation? He's out stumping
to refill his coffers now it seems, having (briefly) overflown
the sights.

Based on the numerous previous smaller disasters that have occurred in
the US, I would expect most of the trucking companies are already
coordinating to truck donated supplies to the area at cost or free.

Purchased relief supplies, perhaps.
Where would you expect their replacement furnishings to go?

How about to the stadiums that are being used to house the refugees?
Last time I looked places like the Astrodome weren't setup for people to
live in. They certainly aren't going to be putting 75,000 people up in
hotels. They will need plenty of "furnishings", blankets, etc. for a
fair amount of time until people can be disbursed to longer term
accommodations.

Nope. Getting them OUT ASAP. To where?
BW, Hotels are already furnished, mostly. HTH.


We now have perhaps a million people (anyone have a good number?)
lacking homes to go back to or jobs. All need to be relocated.

That is indeed a problem, but not one we need to focus on today or
tomorrow.

It's major and needs to be considered now.

Probably 30 days out after the more immediate concerns are
addressed.

Multiple problems need parallel answers.

Will there be a housing shortage?

There already is a housing shortage. Hopefully a reasonable percentage
of the refugees have some relatives that will be able to take them in
for a while.

A bigger problem than a few used couches will solve, eh?
About any place that they might end up, other than new
apartments & homes, will be furnished.
Should they carry those couches about?

What of their property & bank records & suchlike?

What property? Their property for the most part is gone. Bank records
and similar are stored on computers last time I looked (today) and are
readily retrievable.

In all too many places old property records & titles are still
on paper only.

How many actually had federal FLOOD insurance? Normal
insurance will cover about none of the water damages.

Well, if they were living in New Orleans and had a mortgage they
certainly had flood insurance. If those without mortgages chose to do
without flood insurance they will simply have to take responsibility for
that choice. Those who simply could not afford flood insurance have a
lot of paperwork to look forward to in order to try to get assistance.


With donating goods or personal services (i.e. got there and help) there
is far less opportunity to relief agency mismanagement /
misappropriation.

The neocons are willing & able, right?

Well, if you're including religious groups on the "neocon" list then,
yes, most certainly. In fact looking at a FEMA list of relief agencies
currently working in the area, it's abundantly clear that most are in
fact religious groups. Being a devout atheist myself, I find it rather
distressing that there are so few non religious relief groups to donate
to.

Well, it's all a faith-based government now, right?

When YOU get there you are going to live & eat & drink & go
to the bathroom exactly where?

Um, perhaps in the same camps with the other relief workers?

Which don't seem to be where the people that need them are.

Which immunizations do you alreadty have?

Not sure how relevant this is currently. Most folks have the standard
batch of immunizations, and at this point the disaster area hasn't quite
reached the point where it's an immediate concern. Certainly will reach
that point fairly soon if they aren't able to pickup the bodies and get
things draining.

Probably several hundreds years worth of bodies floated up
out of the cemetaries as well.
Due to the high water table they like to store those
above ground anyway. Now they are flooded ....

The head of the relief agency isn't going to be able
to buy themselves a new company BMW with the pallet of diapers you
donate.

Which would be wasted.

Exactly how would said pallet of diapers be wasted? Every picture I've
seen on CNN or any other source has shown plenty of people with infants
who will indeed need diapers.

Evacuate to someplace with food, power & hot water first perhaps?
That has stores with diapers?

As for the government, they seem to be doing exactly what they are
supposed to be doing. FEMA, the agency that is supposed to plan for and
manage emergencies such as this is certainly there assessing and
coordinating as they are supposed to do. Various military units are in
the area bringing in supplies and bringing out the survivors. The Army
folks are working to repair the levies. The only complaint I've heard is
that they diverted some helicopters to rescuing people from rooftops
instead of working on the levee repairs.

What exactly do you think the government should be doing to help the
Katrina recovery that they aren't already doing?

Pete C.

I see you have no answer to what the government you so despise should be
doing to help the Katrina recovery that they aren't already. Very easy
for you to sit around and attack the actions of others, a bit more
difficult to come up with anything constructive eh?

Watch ...
--
Cliff

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 06:30:01 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On 1 Sep 2005 20:12:34 -0700, "StatHaldol"
wrote:

So much has been said about placing blame, global warming, the price of
gasoline,
etc...What about the refugees in New Orleans? Is it such a good idea to
send 20,000 of them to the Astrodome in Houston? This has to be a
temporary solution. Many of these refugees may never have a home again
in New Orleans. Let's face it, 90% or more of these refugees are poor
minorities with no hope or jobs...This would be a good opportunity for
us in "blue" states to open our hearts and doors to them. Instead of
housing 20,000+ of them in the Astrodome; why can't we take 1000 or
more of them to EACH state in states from Washington to Maine. This
would be a good opportunity for all of us to experience some
multi-cultural diversity! (Somewhere Ted Kennedy is smiling at the
idea...)


PLEASE take em to the Blue states! They will increase your voting
roles, add diversity and be an interesting adjunct to your population.

We in the Red State know that you will treasure and keep them in the
same hidious poverty they have been kept in by Democrats while living
in New Orleans. A whole new group of poor, hopeless and often
illiterate ghetto minorities to call your very own and to keep under
your thumb, and be kept helpless, hopeless and frankly..stupid.

Mind you..it may take a while to learn to understand their language.
While fascinating to listen to, Creole spiced with Ebonics, with a
ghetto Cajun flavor does take some getting used to.

On the other hand....

We have an illegal alien problem, which is generally caused by poor
inforcement and the fact employers want workers cheap.

We have about 1.8 million homeless as a result of Katrina.

Pass a law, that any employer that hires a refugee (and an ID card
must be provided to prove it) will get to deduct their entire wage
costs, insurance, medical, training and so forth from the net taxes
they have to pay each quarter, for the next 5 yrs.

This will encourage the employer to hire the refugees, which puts them
to work, will encourage the employer to train them and turn those
people into skilled workers.

This means that they get them as FREE workers, because their costs are
deducted from their taxes. The illegal aliens will be fired virtually
over night, and will be forced to leave the country simply because of
lack of work.

The refugees will become trained, have an income not involveing
welfare and will be able to buy or rent their own homes..homes vacated
by the illegals.

Two birds with one stone.

No..dont thank me. Just send me a grant to study the social dynamics
as poor southern blacks are introduced to Northeastern Blueneck
Liberal Racists and are intergrated into your society.

Perhaps Sen KKK Byrd might like a few of the High Yeller ones as
housekeepers?

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Wingers ....

Gunner's interior decorator used different guns for
each room. They are hidden everywhere .... someone
might steal his kibble & feed it to the cattle outside ....
--
Cliff

In article ,
Gunner wrote:

On 1 Sep 2005 20:12:34 -0700, "StatHaldol"
wrote:

So much has been said about placing blame, global warming, the price of
gasoline,
etc...What about the refugees in New Orleans? Is it such a good idea to
send 20,000 of them to the Astrodome in Houston? This has to be a
temporary solution. Many of these refugees may never have a home again
in New Orleans. Let's face it, 90% or more of these refugees are poor
minorities with no hope or jobs...This would be a good opportunity for
us in "blue" states to open our hearts and doors to them. Instead of
housing 20,000+ of them in the Astrodome; why can't we take 1000 or
more of them to EACH state in states from Washington to Maine. This
would be a good opportunity for all of us to experience some
multi-cultural diversity! (Somewhere Ted Kennedy is smiling at the
idea...)


PLEASE take em to the Blue states! They will increase your voting
roles, add diversity and be an interesting adjunct to your population.

We in the Red State know that you will treasure and keep them in the
same hidious poverty they have been kept in by Democrats while living
in New Orleans. A whole new group of poor, hopeless and often
illiterate ghetto minorities to call your very own and to keep under
your thumb, and be kept helpless, hopeless and frankly..stupid.

These are not stupid blacks, they have had public education and would be
considered college graduates in Africa. We could send them to dry areas
in Africa where they wood never fear water again and culturally enrich
Africa in the process.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
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