Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's together with
ethernet cards and coax? If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know what to
do assuming I can get the thing to recognize the hardware or is it going
to be a real pain to make work?

What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any chance?

Many thanks,

John

JohnM wrote:
Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's together with
ethernet cards and coax?

Yes.

If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know what to
do assuming I can get the thing to recognize the hardware or is it going
to be a real pain to make work?

Yes, it will know what to do.

What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any chance?

No. TV cable will *not* work with great certainty. TV cable is coaxial cable,
which has 2 conductors. Ethernet cable has 4 conductors (2 of which are actually
used). Just buy network cable, stuff is dirt cheap. Don't get me wrong,
depending on what you are doing, it is conceivable that some of your link could
be made up of coaxial cable, but actual Ethernet cards that hook directly to
coaxial cable are rare, and TV coaxial cable is the wrong impedance.

And this is the wrong newsgroup. Google Tells All, in this case I suspect quite
quickly.

GWE

John,

Boy,, If your ethernet cards use coax they are really old. I haven't seen
those in over a decade.

That type of ethernet is called "thin". I think it's 2mb per second max. If
memory serves, machines using this type of set up are indeed daisy chained
together with tees. The last one usually has a terminator cap. I don't know
for sure if TV cable will, or will not work. Seems to me that the center
conductor was much thinner than TV stuff. One things for sure, if the
impedence isn't right it won't.

Why don't you just get some PCI cards with a standard RJ45 plug. The
machines would have to be over 15 years old to not have PCI slots, in which
case you should just toss em.

It's allot easier to hook up multiple machines using a cheap hub, or switch.
Peer to peer is the easiest to set up, but requires that the "Netbui"
protocol be installed on all machines. TCPIP protocol is much more involved,
and far from automatic

Regards

Mark


"JohnM" wrote in message
m...
Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's together with
ethernet cards and coax? If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know what to
do assuming I can get the thing to recognize the hardware or is it going
to be a real pain to make work?

What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any chance?

Many thanks,

John

JohnM wrote:
Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's together with
ethernet cards and coax? If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know what to
do assuming I can get the thing to recognize the hardware or is it going
to be a real pain to make work?

What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any chance?

Many thanks,

John

Win 95? You might as well commit suicide before you start.

And if you don't know that ethernet cards need Ethernet cables, not coax
cables, you should not even contemplate starting something like this.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Mark Mossberg wrote:


Why don't you just get some PCI cards with a standard RJ45 plug. The
machines would have to be over 15 years old to not have PCI slots, in which
case you should just toss em.

Since he is still running Windows 95 (according to his OP) he may indeed
have old ISA slots.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Mark Mossberg wrote:

Boy,, If your ethernet cards use coax they are really old.

Right!


The last one usually has a terminator cap.

Both ends need them. They avoid reflections.


I don't know for sure if TV cable will, or will not work.

It won't. Wrong impedance. For thin wire you need 50 Ohms, so a RG58
would do. TV-cables are 75 Ohms, IIRC.

I still have a bunch of coax lying around. Double shielded, best
quality. Also some connectors (crimping) ...



Nick
--
Motormodelle / Engine Models:
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
Ellwe 2FB * VTM 87 * DLM-S3a * cubic
more to come ...

Abrasha wrote:
Mark Mossberg wrote:


Why don't you just get some PCI cards with a standard RJ45 plug. The
machines would have to be over 15 years old to not have PCI slots, in
which
case you should just toss em.


Since he is still running Windows 95 (according to his OP) he may indeed
have old ISA slots.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
I've had my PCs hooked up by Ethernet for about the last 10 years.
NetBEUI over 10Base2 cabling. Oldest PC just runs DOS. there are 2
Win311 boxes, a Win95 box and then it goes to a hub with a BNC port to
take it to the two Win98 PCs and the DSL router on 10BaseT cabling.

Rules of thumb for successfull home networking on the cheap:

Start with 2 identical 3Com used cards (download the driver disks) or a
pair of new cards.

Use known good 50 ohm coax cabling, tees and 50 ohm terminators or UTP
cabling and a hub for your first attempt. There is enough to go wrong
*without* guessing if the hardware is OK. Use the diagnostics program on
the card driver disk to test communications before loading windows
drivers. Long term, UTP cabling with a hub is *much* easier to
troubleshoot, you just check all the idiot lights are green :-)

Use NetBEUI. Its not routeable so cant leak out over the internet. DONT
leave TCP/IP bound to Microsoft file and printer sharing. NetBEUI is
still on the XP cd, its just a very well hidden extra now. TCP/IP is
*hard* to set up then your firewall will break your filesharing :-(

When trying to bring up an extra machine using used/suspect bits,
connect it to to machines that allreade see each other properly.

Dont get wireless networking untill you understand the ordinary wired
stuff AND THE SECURITY PROBLEMS properly.

Finally, try to resist the temptation to place the offending bit of
network hardware on your anvil and hit it with your largest hammer . . . .

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- &
[dot]=.
*Warning* SPAM TRAP set in header, Use email address in sig. if you must.

JohnM wrote in
m:

Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's together
with ethernet cards and coax? If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know
what to do assuming I can get the thing to recognize the hardware or
is it going to be a real pain to make work?

What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any
chance?

Many thanks,

John

Ok, here's the scoop......
You need an ethernet card for each PC. You need ethernet cable with
RJ-45 connectors. You need an ethernet switch (Hubs, although cheaper,
introduce other problems if you are as unfamilar with networking as your
post makes you seem). Switches come in several flavors of number of
ports, typically, 4, 8, 16, 32 port varieties. Depends on how many PC's
you have. You need 1 port per PC. Get a switch/router, as they have a
built in DHCP server to dole out IP addresses and this eases set-up. W95
will network fairly easily with TCP/IP.

--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

http://www.machines-cnc.net:81/

"Mark Mossberg" writes:

It's allot easier to hook up multiple machines using a cheap hub, or switch.

If you're just hooking two machines together, you can use a Cat5
"crossover" cable, with no hub. This should be available at any
computer store (don't mix these up with regular Cat5 cables that
are used with hubs-- sometimes they're labeled, sometimes not).

If you don't have PCI slots, there are ISA network cards around,
but the local stores may not stock them, so you may have to get
one from ebay (I used to have one, but I think I sold it when I
got rid of my last ISA box).

I've done this with Win95, it's not too painful (although I only
did it long enough to transfer files to a newer machine). Disable
any protocols other than Netbui. Turn on file sharing for the
directories you want to transfer, and it "just works".

Nick Müller wrote:

Mark Mossberg wrote:



Boy,, If your ethernet cards use coax they are really old.



Right!




The last one usually has a terminator cap.



Both ends need them. They avoid reflections.




I don't know for sure if TV cable will, or will not work.



It won't. Wrong impedance. For thin wire you need 50 Ohms, so a RG58
would do. TV-cables are 75 Ohms, IIRC.

I still have a bunch of coax lying around. Double shielded, best
quality. Also some connectors (crimping) ...



Right now I am connected to my DSL box with about 150 feet of 75 Ohm
coax cable. And to
make matters worse I use 50 Ohm termination's. I get 10 Megabits per
second. on the coax.
I have another machine (Win98) at the DSL box so I know the speed is
greater than the DSL line.

I have a converter device at this end to convert coax to twisted pair
(RJ45) to connect to this
computer. So sometimes the rules can be violated and things will work.

I would recommend that CAT6 wiring be installed and then the new
computers and
interface cards can be used as intended.

Bill K7NOM

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 06:46:05 GMT, "Mark Mossberg"
wrote:

Why don't you just get some PCI cards with a standard RJ45 plug. The
machines would have to be over 15 years old to not have PCI slots, in which
case you should just toss em.

It's allot easier to hook up multiple machines using a cheap hub, or switch.
Peer to peer is the easiest to set up, but requires that the "Netbui"
protocol be installed on all machines. TCPIP protocol is much more involved,
and far from automatic

Regards

Mark


I just gave away or tossed at least (20) 10-based T, 24 port hubs.
There is a glut of such around these days as everyone has gone over to
100T or fiber optic switches..or wireless, which is dirt cheap now.

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

JohnM wrote:
Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's together with
ethernet cards and coax? If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know what to
do assuming I can get the thing to recognize the hardware or is it going
to be a real pain to make work?

Yes, you have to set up names for "windows shares" and network
addresses. I prefer TCP/IP protocol, but you have (too many) choices.
Nearly any card should just plug in and work.

What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any chance?
If you can even FIND coax-type ethernet cards, now, you need 50 Ohm, not
75 Ohm, cable. Video is standardized at 75 Ohms, so it won't work
without causing reflections.

Jon

Mark Mossberg wrote:
John,

Boy,, If your ethernet cards use coax they are really old. I haven't seen
those in over a decade.

That type of ethernet is called "thin". I think it's 2mb per second max.

No, thickwire, thinwire and AUI (15-pin plug) all are 10 MB/second.
(There are other non-ethernet protocols that do 2 MB/sec).

Jon

Ok John, as usual there are a lot of answers which don't tell you how
you can, mostly from people with only a passing knowledge of how to do
it.
You are better off asking the question on
microsoft.public.win95.networking newsgroup. At least there you will
get three answers on how to do it right and then for amusement you can
read the rest of the thread as they argue among themselves as to which
one is better.

This newsgroup is really good at metalworking, so unless you really
want to rivet the two computers together, you should post to a
networking group.


--
The Road Warrior Hobbit

no -- it's NOT ok to contact this account with services or other
commercial interests

"Abrasha" wrote in message
...
| JohnM wrote:
| Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's
together with
| ethernet cards and coax? If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know
what to
| do assuming I can get the thing to recognize the hardware or is it
going
| to be a real pain to make work?
|
| What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any
chance?
|
| Many thanks,
|
| John
|
| Win 95? You might as well commit suicide before you start.
|
| And if you don't know that ethernet cards need Ethernet cables, not
coax
| cables, you should not even contemplate starting something like
this.
|
| Abrasha
| http://www.abrasha.com

Grant Erwin wrote:
JohnM wrote:

Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's together
with ethernet cards and coax?


Yes.

If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know what to do assuming I can get
the thing to recognize the hardware or is it going to be a real pain
to make work?


Yes, it will know what to do.

What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any chance?


No. TV cable will *not* work with great certainty. TV cable is coaxial
cable, which has 2 conductors. Ethernet cable has 4 conductors (2 of
which are actually used). Just buy network cable, stuff is dirt cheap.
Don't get me wrong, depending on what you are doing, it is conceivable
that some of your link could be made up of coaxial cable, but actual
Ethernet cards that hook directly to coaxial cable are rare, and TV
coaxial cable is the wrong impedance.

And this is the wrong newsgroup. Google Tells All, in this case I
suspect quite quickly.

GWE


OK, I got some good information to start with- I kindly thank all who
have responded with worthwhile suggestions.

Yeah, I'm off topic.. but it's something hands-on, and not too political.

Again, thanks all,

John

In article ,
Grant Erwin wrote:
JohnM wrote:
Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's together with
ethernet cards and coax?

Yes.

If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know what to
do assuming I can get the thing to recognize the hardware or is it going
to be a real pain to make work?

Yes, it will know what to do.

Unlike when trying to get an older Windows to talk to a unix
box. Unix boxen are happy to talk to each other via ethernet (they were
doing it before Windows), and earlier Windows systems (of course) came
up with a totally incompatible protocol for everything.

In Windows boxen, mostly what you can do is set up file sharing,
where one system has the big disks, and others use the same information
over the net.

In Unix boxen, you not only have NSF (Network File System) (and
some earlier versions, such as RFS (Remote File System), but you also
have the ability to log into one system from the other, and use it just
as though you were using your local system. You can use rsh/rlogin (and
rcp for copying files), or if you are worried about security, you can
disable those, and use ssh/slogin and scp, which do everything in an
encrypted mode, so people can't snoop passwords from the net. (And yes,
it is dead easy to do. :-)

What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any chance?

No. TV cable will *not* work with great certainty. TV cable is coaxial cable,
which has 2 conductors. Ethernet cable has 4 conductors (2 of which are actually
used).

Not quite right.

1) Ethernet can have one of three formats (excluding fiber optic
or wireless links)

a) The really old 10Base5 -- also called "thicknet". This
is a coax almost the size of your thumb, triple
shielded, and only works with transceivers connected to
the AUI port (15-pin D connector) on some ethernet
cards. You need to have a 50-ohm terminator at each end
of the cable. You can connect transceivers in the
middle with more connectors (Type-N screw-together
connectors), or you can use "vampire taps" -- you drill
a hole through the insulation and shielding, and clamp
on a tap which will poke through the outer insulation to
contact the shielding, and then a sharp point will go
through the hole in the insulation and shielding, and
contact the center conductor.

This system is pretty much obsolete, and limited to 10
MB/S data transfer rates.

b) Somewhat newer, 10Base2 -- also called "thinnet". This
is also a double-shielded coax, but much smaller and
good for a somewhat shorter distance. The coax
connectors on this are BNC connectors. This will not
get quite as long a run as thicknet will do, but is a
lot easier to install. And, if you aren't near the run
length limit, you can get away with RG-58 cable (50 ohm
connections) -- but not with RG-59 (75 ohm, which is
used for TV connections.) (Well ... you might be able
to get away with a really short run, say six feet or
so.) But you need to have a 50 ohm terminator at each
end of the run.

This is somewhat obsolescent, and is also limited to 10
MB/S data transfer rates.

Both of the above run from end to end, and can have any number
of systems connected along the length. The following system ia
a "radial" system, where each machine has its own cable from the
computer to a hub. (Though a special cable can be made to
connect only two computers.)

c) 10BaseT/100BaseT/1000BaseT: Twisted pair ethernet.
There are *two* pairs of wires needed for this, out of
the four which the connector (RJ-45 -- like a telephone
modular connector, except that it has eight connections,
not the four of the phone (RJ-11) connector, or the six
of the RJ-13 used for phones with hold circuits.

The wires are selected in twisted pairs, and the cable
usually has four pair, though only two are used for the
ethernet. (Sometimes people use the other two for
carrying power for a wireless system.) The wires are
(counting from left to right, as the wire faces you and
the terminal blades are visible on top):

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

For a normal connection, the first pair goes from
pins 1 and 2 to pins 1 and 2 of the other connector, and
pins 3 and 6 go to pins 3 and 6 of the other connector.

For a computer-to-computer connection, (only two
computers, with no hub), instead you have it as follows:



Comp1 Comp2
================
1 -------- 3 \
pair 1
2 -------- 6 /
3 -------- 1 \
4 7 \
pair 2
5 8 /
6 -------- 2 /
7 4
8 5

The ones with wires between them are those which matter,
and the pin numbering is just a suggested arrangement to
coexist with the logic of the first pair.

I usually use the blue/white pair for pins 1 & 2, and
the orange/white pair for pins 3 & 5 on a four-pair
cable. (The other two pair or green/white and
brown/white.

Note that the higher the speed, the more critical the
construction and the shorter the maximum length. With
10BaseT you can get away with almost anything. With
1000BaseT, it has to be nearly perfect.

Note that a *good* crimper for RJ-45 connectors is made
by AMP, and tends to be rather expensive. The cheaper
ones are likely to not always crimp all of the blades to
the same depth, and to sometime tilt one or more so they
don't get crimped at all.


Note that the 10Base5 (thicknet) *always* has an AUI interface
between the network card an the transceiver.

The 10Base2 (thin-net) and 10BaseT (twisted pair) are more likely
to have connectors directly on the computer network card, or
built into the computer -- though transceivers for both were
made to plug into an AUI connector.

100Base2 and 1000Base2 will *only* have RJ-45 connectors on the
network cards.

Just buy network cable, stuff is dirt cheap. Don't get me wrong,

They are even available as "crossover" cables, which are what
you need to connect two (and only two) computers together.

depending on what you are doing, it is conceivable that some of your link could
be made up of coaxial cable, but actual Ethernet cards that hook directly to
coaxial cable are rare, and TV coaxial cable is the wrong impedance.

As mentioned above, it is more likely to be RG-59 (75 ohm), and
for coax ethernet, you need 50 ohm impedance (RG-58 or genuine Thin-net
cable).

And this is the wrong newsgroup. Google Tells All, in this case I suspect quite
quickly.

Perhaps so. But I think that I have covered most of what may
be needed (other than how to convince a Windows box to use that instead
of a modem to dial up a network connection. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.



--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 25 Jul 2005 23:12:07 -0400, (DoN. Nichols)
wrote:


Perhaps so. But I think that I have covered most of what may
be needed (other than how to convince a Windows box to use that instead
of a modem to dial up a network connection. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.


Don, quick question for you. It appears you are linux/unix smart. Ive
got a Linux box running on the home net, one that Ive been using to
try various distros of Linux (I rather like Mepis btw) and have been
setting them up to use proxy access to the net via my regular win XP
pro box (dial up..sigh) Works great via proxy.

My problem is that I scrounged an external modem (works fine) and
after installing it, I cannot connect to the net via the modem. KPPP
setup is fine, it dials out properly but when I load any browser or
apt-get etc etc..it ignores that there is a modem ready and waiting.
Ive changed/removed the proxy settings from all the browsers
(firefox/konqurer/Dillo) and none will use the modem. If I use a Run
from CD distro, all works fine.

Any idea which file(s) needs to be configured to allow all internet
tasks to go to tty/s01? No one in my area that Im familar with knows
dick about linux, nor does the local Community College offer any
classes, and learning this on my own is a stone bitch. Ive got a QUE
book on linux...but its not helping much either....sigh.

I added the modem after installing the OS. When booting, the os
finds the modem no problem. I used KPPP to set up the modem, all went
well there.

Do I need to reinstall? Id rather not lose all my other settings.

Id run off a CD..but its slow, even on a 700 mhz machine with 512 ram.
Which sort of defeats futzing with linux.

Ive got Mepis (current distro) loaded, with Mandiva , Fedora and
Ubuntu waiting in the wings, along with Knoppix, which, like Mepis,
works pretty well. Im not doing anything other than desktop stuff,
and have a second 80gig drive mounted as hdb1 for storage serving via
samba

Ive also got DSL, Beatrix and several other small versions also.

Got any suggestions on how to solve the modem problem?

Gunner


"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability,
accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose
and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee,
imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any
particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or
responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect
to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by
any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it
into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts
that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other
agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within
five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or
by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron
who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece
of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a
bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'

DoN. Nichols wrote:
In article ,
Grant Erwin wrote:

JohnM wrote:

Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's together with
ethernet cards and coax?

Yes.


If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know what to
do assuming I can get the thing to recognize the hardware or is it going
to be a real pain to make work?

Yes, it will know what to do.


Unlike when trying to get an older Windows to talk to a unix
box. Unix boxen are happy to talk to each other via ethernet (they were
doing it before Windows), and earlier Windows systems (of course) came
up with a totally incompatible protocol for everything.

In Windows boxen, mostly what you can do is set up file sharing,
where one system has the big disks, and others use the same information
over the net.

In Unix boxen, you not only have NSF (Network File System) (and
some earlier versions, such as RFS (Remote File System), but you also
have the ability to log into one system from the other, and use it just
as though you were using your local system. You can use rsh/rlogin (and
rcp for copying files), or if you are worried about security, you can
disable those, and use ssh/slogin and scp, which do everything in an
encrypted mode, so people can't snoop passwords from the net. (And yes,
it is dead easy to do. :-)


What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any chance?

No. TV cable will *not* work with great certainty. TV cable is coaxial cable,
which has 2 conductors. Ethernet cable has 4 conductors (2 of which are actually
used).


Not quite right.

1) Ethernet can have one of three formats (excluding fiber optic
or wireless links)

a) The really old 10Base5 -- also called "thicknet". This
is a coax almost the size of your thumb, triple
shielded, and only works with transceivers connected to
the AUI port (15-pin D connector) on some ethernet
cards. You need to have a 50-ohm terminator at each end
of the cable. You can connect transceivers in the
middle with more connectors (Type-N screw-together
connectors), or you can use "vampire taps" -- you drill
a hole through the insulation and shielding, and clamp
on a tap which will poke through the outer insulation to
contact the shielding, and then a sharp point will go
through the hole in the insulation and shielding, and
contact the center conductor.

This system is pretty much obsolete, and limited to 10
MB/S data transfer rates.

b) Somewhat newer, 10Base2 -- also called "thinnet". This
is also a double-shielded coax, but much smaller and
good for a somewhat shorter distance. The coax
connectors on this are BNC connectors. This will not
get quite as long a run as thicknet will do, but is a
lot easier to install. And, if you aren't near the run
length limit, you can get away with RG-58 cable (50 ohm
connections) -- but not with RG-59 (75 ohm, which is
used for TV connections.) (Well ... you might be able
to get away with a really short run, say six feet or
so.) But you need to have a 50 ohm terminator at each
end of the run.

This is somewhat obsolescent, and is also limited to 10
MB/S data transfer rates.

Both of the above run from end to end, and can have any number
of systems connected along the length. The following system ia
a "radial" system, where each machine has its own cable from the
computer to a hub. (Though a special cable can be made to
connect only two computers.)

c) 10BaseT/100BaseT/1000BaseT: Twisted pair ethernet.
There are *two* pairs of wires needed for this, out of
the four which the connector (RJ-45 -- like a telephone
modular connector, except that it has eight connections,
not the four of the phone (RJ-11) connector, or the six
of the RJ-13 used for phones with hold circuits.

The wires are selected in twisted pairs, and the cable
usually has four pair, though only two are used for the
ethernet. (Sometimes people use the other two for
carrying power for a wireless system.) The wires are
(counting from left to right, as the wire faces you and
the terminal blades are visible on top):

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

For a normal connection, the first pair goes from
pins 1 and 2 to pins 1 and 2 of the other connector, and
pins 3 and 6 go to pins 3 and 6 of the other connector.

For a computer-to-computer connection, (only two
computers, with no hub), instead you have it as follows:



Comp1 Comp2
================
1 -------- 3 \
pair 1
2 -------- 6 /
3 -------- 1 \
4 7 \
pair 2
5 8 /
6 -------- 2 /
7 4
8 5

The ones with wires between them are those which matter,
and the pin numbering is just a suggested arrangement to
coexist with the logic of the first pair.

I usually use the blue/white pair for pins 1 & 2, and
the orange/white pair for pins 3 & 5 on a four-pair
cable. (The other two pair or green/white and
brown/white.

Note that the higher the speed, the more critical the
construction and the shorter the maximum length. With
10BaseT you can get away with almost anything. With
1000BaseT, it has to be nearly perfect.

Note that a *good* crimper for RJ-45 connectors is made
by AMP, and tends to be rather expensive. The cheaper
ones are likely to not always crimp all of the blades to
the same depth, and to sometime tilt one or more so they
don't get crimped at all.


Note that the 10Base5 (thicknet) *always* has an AUI interface
between the network card an the transceiver.

The 10Base2 (thin-net) and 10BaseT (twisted pair) are more likely
to have connectors directly on the computer network card, or
built into the computer -- though transceivers for both were
made to plug into an AUI connector.

100Base2 and 1000Base2 will *only* have RJ-45 connectors on the
network cards.


Just buy network cable, stuff is dirt cheap. Don't get me wrong,


They are even available as "crossover" cables, which are what
you need to connect two (and only two) computers together.


depending on what you are doing, it is conceivable that some of your link could
be made up of coaxial cable, but actual Ethernet cards that hook directly to
coaxial cable are rare, and TV coaxial cable is the wrong impedance.


As mentioned above, it is more likely to be RG-59 (75 ohm), and
for coax ethernet, you need 50 ohm impedance (RG-58 or genuine Thin-net
cable).


And this is the wrong newsgroup. Google Tells All, in this case I suspect quite
quickly.


Perhaps so. But I think that I have covered most of what may
be needed (other than how to convince a Windows box to use that instead
of a modem to dial up a network connection. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.




Thanks DoN, I really appreciate that (and thanks to everyone else again
too). Now that I know it's doable and the OS should help me I'll be
giving it a shot.

John

Long term, UTP cabling with a hub is *much* easier to
troubleshoot, you just check all the idiot lights are
green :-)

Also, it's very easy to set up an internal network using
either a linux router ( http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ and
http://lrp.steinkuehler.net/ come to mind) or linksys type
router connected to the hub. The router now does all the
internal network configuration over DHCP, and works
flawlessly with win95/98.

The linux router can work as just a stand-alone network
configuration box, or can talk to dialup, cable, or DSL
modems. Most also have a firewall by default. The linux
router can be made from nearly any old PC with a floppy
drive and a working network card, I've used 486-100's
with no issues.

HTH,
--Glenn Lyford

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 01:44:11 -0400, JohnM wrote:

Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's together with
ethernet cards and coax? If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know what to
do assuming I can get the thing to recognize the hardware or is it going
to be a real pain to make work?

What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any chance?

First, ethernet hasn't used coax in over 10 years - it's all CAT5 these
days - that's RJ45 connectors, that look just like a telephone modular
plug, but 8 contacts wide.

Second, I used to have a W95 computer, and never got it to recognize
the network, even though the card installed. When I upgraded to W98,
it worked fine, however. Now I use Linux on the "server" and all of the
workstations have Win2000.

To hook just two computers together, you get a "crossover cable".
The ethernet adapter in the computer expects to plug into a hub,
switch, or router - kinda like when there were external modems,
the modem was DCE (data communications equipment) and the computer
was DTE (data terminal equipment), so to connect two computers
by serial, you had to use a "null modem". A crossover cable is
like that for an ethernet connection with only the two computers.
For more computers, you need a hub or a switch, or a full-on
router.

Good Luck!
Rich

Rich Grise wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 01:44:11 -0400, JohnM wrote:


Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's together with
ethernet cards and coax? If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know what to
do assuming I can get the thing to recognize the hardware or is it going
to be a real pain to make work?

What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any chance?


First, ethernet hasn't used coax in over 10 years - it's all CAT5 these
days - that's RJ45 connectors, that look just like a telephone modular
plug, but 8 contacts wide.

Second, I used to have a W95 computer, and never got it to recognize
the network, even though the card installed. When I upgraded to W98,
it worked fine, however. Now I use Linux on the "server" and all of the
workstations have Win2000.

To hook just two computers together, you get a "crossover cable".
The ethernet adapter in the computer expects to plug into a hub,
switch, or router - kinda like when there were external modems,
the modem was DCE (data communications equipment) and the computer
was DTE (data terminal equipment), so to connect two computers
by serial, you had to use a "null modem". A crossover cable is
like that for an ethernet connection with only the two computers.
For more computers, you need a hub or a switch, or a full-on
router.

Good Luck!
Rich

Gosh - I have a DOS NIC card and the floppy software that enables it.
Just in case I had to go to DOS for some reason.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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In article ,
Gunner wrote:
On 25 Jul 2005 23:12:07 -0400, (DoN. Nichols)
wrote:


Perhaps so. But I think that I have covered most of what may
be needed (other than how to convince a Windows box to use that instead
of a modem to dial up a network connection. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.


Don, quick question for you. It appears you are linux/unix smart. Ive

Sorry -- I fell behind during a local metalworking club meeting
combined with more than usual of the day dealing with some program
modifications, so I'm only now just seeing this.

Note that I only have one linux box up, and it uses only a
direct ethernet card. It has been a long time since I've used a modem
to connect to the net. I've currently got a leased T1 line.

got a Linux box running on the home net, one that Ive been using to
try various distros of Linux (I rather like Mepis btw) and have been
setting them up to use proxy access to the net via my regular win XP
pro box (dial up..sigh) Works great via proxy.

My problem is that I scrounged an external modem (works fine) and
after installing it, I cannot connect to the net via the modem. KPPP
setup is fine, it dials out properly but when I load any browser or
apt-get etc etc..it ignores that there is a modem ready and waiting.
Ive changed/removed the proxy settings from all the browsers
(firefox/konqurer/Dillo) and none will use the modem. If I use a Run
from CD distro, all works fine.

Any idea which file(s) needs to be configured to allow all internet
tasks to go to tty/s01? No one in my area that Im familar with knows
dick about linux, nor does the local Community College offer any
classes, and learning this on my own is a stone bitch. Ive got a QUE
book on linux...but its not helping much either....sigh.

Hmm ... again -- I've not used a modem and PPP (or SLIP, which
was what I actually used back then) for net connection in a long time,
and that was on an old SunOs 4.1.4 box, not linux.

However, you might start by running:

ifconfig -a

and seeing what it returns. If your PPP connection is up, it should be
visible on that. (One of my internal net systems shows the following:


================================================== ====================
lo0: flags=2001000849UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST,IPv 4,VIRTUAL mtu 8232 index 1
inet 127.0.0.1 netmask ff000000
hme0: flags=1000843UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST,IPv4 mtu 1500 index 2
inet 10.0.0.26 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 10.0.0.255
ether 8:0:20:7f:10:23
lo0: flags=2002000849UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST,IPv 6,VIRTUAL mtu 8252 index 1
inet6 ::1/128
hme0: flags=2000841UP,RUNNING,MULTICAST,IPv6 mtu 1500 index 2
inet6 fe80::a00:20ff:fe7f:1023/10
ether 8:0:20:7f:10:23
================================================== ====================

Note that the "lo0" entries are the internal "loopback" net, no
connection to anything outside that machine), and the "hme0" ones are
the 100BaseT/10BaseT twisted pair ethernet interface. There are two
entries for it, because I am running both the standard IPv4 (inet) and
the IPv6 (inet6) networking at once.

Once it is verified that your ppp is runing (it may show up as
"ppp0:"), and make sure that it says "UP,RUNNING" (with other possible
states), then you need to make sure that things are routed to it.

For that, try:

netstat -r

And you should get something of this form:


================================================== ====================
Fuego:csu 1:12 # netstat -r

Routing Table: IPv4
Destination Gateway Flags Ref Use Interface
-------------------- -------------------- ----- ----- ------ ---------
d-and-d ceili2 UG 1 78
10.0.0.0 Fuego U 1 4095 hme0
BASE-ADDRESS.MCAST.NET Fuego U 1 0 hme0
default sponge UG 1 67
localhost localhost UH 6 98 lo0

Routing Table: IPv6
Destination/Mask Gateway Flags Ref Use If
--------------------------- --------------------------- ----- --- ------ -----
fe80::/10 Fuego U 1 4 hme0
ff00::/8 Fuego U 1 0 hme0
default Fuego U 1 0 hme0
localhost localhost UH 6 252 lo0
================================================== ====================

(Probably minus the second IPv6 part). Anyway -- look at what is set
for "default". In my case, it is pointing to the firewall machine.
You may need to type "route add default something" to get things
pointed to your dialup PPP link. If you were previously talking to the
net through your Windows box, that is probably the default.

You might first try connecting booted from the CD-ROM, and see
what both of those commands show (write it down), and that may help you
to see what it should be doing on the disk booted version.

There are various ways of doing the configurations, depending on
what system you are running. On Sun's Solaris, there is an
/etc/defaultrouter file containing the name of the default route, so it
is automatically set on boot. Also, there is an /etc/hosts file giving
matches between names and local IP addresses, and a
/etc/hostname.(interface) (such as /etc/hostname.hme0 for above), which
tells the system which IP address to use. In Sun's Solaris 10, it
contains the system name, and the IP address is in the /etc/hosts file.

For OpenBSD, on an Intel based box, the file is:

/etc/hostname.rl0

and the contents a

inet 10.0.0.23 255.255.255.0 NONE

giving the IP address and the netmask (plus saying that there are no
extra things being done with this). I picked this one as my example
OpenBSD system for two reasons:

1) It is internal net only, so it is giving away nothing serious.
The 10.*.*.* IP blocks cannot be routed to the outside, and
connection to the outside is done through the firewall, which
does NAT (Network Address Translation) to make selected
protocols appear to be from an outside capable IP).

2) It is a *lot* simpler than the other OpenBSD box, which is a
firewall with five ethernet interfaces -- mostly internal nets,
but one external one.

I added the modem after installing the OS. When booting, the os
finds the modem no problem. I used KPPP to set up the modem, all went
well there.

Do I need to reinstall? Id rather not lose all my other settings.

I'm sure that you don't -- but the trick is finding what you
need to reconfigure. Without knowing that, you may need to reinstall.
Can you run backups of everything important?

Id run off a CD..but its slow, even on a 700 mhz machine with 512 ram.
Which sort of defeats futzing with linux.

I agree.

Ive got Mepis (current distro) loaded, with Mandiva , Fedora and
Ubuntu waiting in the wings, along with Knoppix, which, like Mepis,
works pretty well. Im not doing anything other than desktop stuff,
and have a second 80gig drive mounted as hdb1 for storage serving via
samba

I tend to avoid linux for externally net-visible systems. While
it is not nearly as bad as Windows with constant patches needed, it
still needs patching more frequently than I find comfortable.

BSD versions vary on security posture, with OpenBSD probably
being the most anal-retentive (and thus the most secure). Pretty much
anything which is on by default is safe. The other stuff, you have to
learn to turn on. :-)

I'm using linux only on one system, to run an EMC package to
(eventually) control a Bridgeport via a Servo-to-Go card. The EMC
package is nicely tied to much older versions of linux, so I am rather
out of date on that -- let alone not having experience with the various
distributions which you have listed.

Ive also got DSL, Beatrix and several other small versions also.

Got any suggestions on how to solve the modem problem?

I have some starting points above. I'm pretty sure that it is
not a modem problem, but a networking routing problem. And the last
time I worked at setting up linux networking (with a real network card),
things were strangely located, relative to the Sun Solaris and the
OpenBSD implementations.

I hope that this is a start, at least.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 06:46:05 GMT, "Mark Mossberg"
wrote:

John,

Boy,, If your ethernet cards use coax they are really old. I haven't seen
those in over a decade.

That type of ethernet is called "thin". I think it's 2mb per second max. If
memory serves, machines using this type of set up are indeed daisy chained
together with tees. The last one usually has a terminator cap. I don't know
for sure if TV cable will, or will not work. Seems to me that the center
conductor was much thinner than TV stuff. One things for sure, if the
impedence isn't right it won't.

Why don't you just get some PCI cards with a standard RJ45 plug. The
machines would have to be over 15 years old to not have PCI slots, in which
case you should just toss em.

It's allot easier to hook up multiple machines using a cheap hub, or switch.
Peer to peer is the easiest to set up, but requires that the "Netbui"
protocol be installed on all machines. TCPIP protocol is much more involved,
and far from automatic

Regards

Mark

TCPIP is THE way to go, whether using RJ45 or Thin-net.
Thin-net was still in fairly common use as little as 5 years ago, and
combo cards are available for PCI slots (as well as for ISA) that will
handle either co-ax or RJ45 - and they are 10mb, not 2.

For a simple "home" network of several older machines, co-ax is
definitely the simplest and cheapest. You can likely get everything
you need surplus and/or free.

Using RJ45 requires a hub or switch - which is often included in a
"router" if you want to connect to high speed internet.

Use 192.168.0.xxx for your IP addresses with the xxx ranging from 001
to 255.


"JohnM" wrote in message
om...
Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's together with
ethernet cards and coax? If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know what to
do assuming I can get the thing to recognize the hardware or is it going
to be a real pain to make work?

What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any chance?

Many thanks,

John

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 23:47:10 -0700, Abrasha
wrote:

JohnM wrote:
Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's together with
ethernet cards and coax? If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know what to
do assuming I can get the thing to recognize the hardware or is it going
to be a real pain to make work?

What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any chance?

Many thanks,

John

Win 95? You might as well commit suicide before you start.

And if you don't know that ethernet cards need Ethernet cables, not coax
cables, you should not even contemplate starting something like this.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
You know too little about the subject to be giving advice.Ethernet can
run over thick co-ax, thin co-ax, double twisted pair (generally
RJ45/Cat5) single twisted pair, fibre optic, or RF - and even IR.

I have worked with all of the above over the last 20+ years. And win95
is a breeze compared to win 3.11 or DOS. Done both of them too.

I have just recently listed some computer networking coax & connectors and a
UTP hub on ebay...
http://search.ebay.com.au/_W0QQsassZmelmacks


wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 06:46:05 GMT, "Mark Mossberg"
wrote:

John,

Boy,, If your ethernet cards use coax they are really old. I haven't seen
those in over a decade.

That type of ethernet is called "thin". I think it's 2mb per second max.
If
memory serves, machines using this type of set up are indeed daisy chained
together with tees. The last one usually has a terminator cap. I don't
know
for sure if TV cable will, or will not work. Seems to me that the center
conductor was much thinner than TV stuff. One things for sure, if the
impedence isn't right it won't.

Why don't you just get some PCI cards with a standard RJ45 plug. The
machines would have to be over 15 years old to not have PCI slots, in
which
case you should just toss em.

It's allot easier to hook up multiple machines using a cheap hub, or
switch.
Peer to peer is the easiest to set up, but requires that the "Netbui"
protocol be installed on all machines. TCPIP protocol is much more
involved,
and far from automatic

Regards

Mark

TCPIP is THE way to go, whether using RJ45 or Thin-net.
Thin-net was still in fairly common use as little as 5 years ago, and
combo cards are available for PCI slots (as well as for ISA) that will
handle either co-ax or RJ45 - and they are 10mb, not 2.

For a simple "home" network of several older machines, co-ax is
definitely the simplest and cheapest. You can likely get everything
you need surplus and/or free.

Using RJ45 requires a hub or switch - which is often included in a
"router" if you want to connect to high speed internet.

Use 192.168.0.xxx for your IP addresses with the xxx ranging from 001
to 255.


"JohnM" wrote in message
. com...
Can I assume I can hook comuters with various Windows OS's together with
ethernet cards and coax? If so, will a Win95 OS pretty well know what to
do assuming I can get the thing to recognize the hardware or is it going
to be a real pain to make work?

What sort of cable do these cards need? The same a TV uses by any
chance?

Many thanks,

John

In article ,
clarence at snyder dot on dot ca wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 06:46:05 GMT, "Mark Mossberg"
wrote:

[ ... ]

Using RJ45 requires a hub or switch

Well ... not really, if all you want to do is interconnect two
machines. A "crossover" cable is sufficient. I've documented the pin
numbers in this thread a few days ago.

- which is often included in a
"router" if you want to connect to high speed internet.

Use 192.168.0.xxx for your IP addresses with the xxx ranging from 001
to 255.

You really want to avoid *.*.*.255 (whether "*.*.*." translated
to "192.168.0." or anything else, because that is commonly a "broadcast"
address. Same for *.*.*.0 -- it is reserved for specific network
functions. And *.*.*.1 is likely to be taken by the router itself, if
you have one, so it is a good idea to leave it unused until you get such
a thing -- to avoid having to re-allocate IP addresses when you connect
to the net through a cable modem or an [A]DSL line or something else.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Ignoramus6455 wrote:
yes, there are coax ethernet cards etc.

Unlikely that the OP knew those details though.

Hey. Thanks for the compliment. Yes, I was aware of that, having looked
into it, but asking questions is how one learns and sometimes the stuff
on the web assumes greater beginning knowledge than I have.

Yeah, maybe I should go buy the stuff new, but I don't want to yet..
I've got some fairly obsolete machines here I'd like to play with and,
not yet being a Linux geek, I'll either use win95 or 98 'cause that's
what I have on hand.

For the moment I'd just like to be able to move files around without
burning CDs and maybe try to get the wife or kids to play a game or two
with me.

John

In any case, go to walmart and buy a network router, and follow
instructions on the router. If you cannot make it work, return the
router back to walmart. Ask newsgroups for help.

i

you can hook the two parallel ports together with a "laplink" cable and use
a freeware utility to move files - used to do that before ethernet. I may
also still have a shareware/freeware network program to move files using
serial cables
"JohnM" wrote in message
m...
Ignoramus6455 wrote:
yes, there are coax ethernet cards etc.

Unlikely that the OP knew those details though.

Hey. Thanks for the compliment. Yes, I was aware of that, having looked
into it, but asking questions is how one learns and sometimes the stuff on
the web assumes greater beginning knowledge than I have.

Yeah, maybe I should go buy the stuff new, but I don't want to yet.. I've
got some fairly obsolete machines here I'd like to play with and, not yet
being a Linux geek, I'll either use win95 or 98 'cause that's what I have
on hand.

For the moment I'd just like to be able to move files around without
burning CDs and maybe try to get the wife or kids to play a game or two
with me.

John

In any case, go to walmart and buy a network router, and follow
instructions on the router. If you cannot make it work, return the
router back to walmart. Ask newsgroups for help. i