On Tue, 25 May 2021 16:41:24 -0400, Tekkie©
wrote:


On Tue, 25 May 2021 16:01:14 -0400, Tekkie© posted for all of us to digest...


On Mon, 24 May 2021 23:55:10 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to digest...


On Mon, 24 May 2021 21:58:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/24/2021 5:36 PM, Tekkie? wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2021 14:37:16 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


How do I do that with all the employees plugged in? Think I'll be be able to
plugin to the nursing home outlet? Do you think they will have charging
stations for visitors?


Do you think minimum wage nursing home employees will have EVs?

No. but the doctors, nurses, therapists and visitors may. Remains to be
seen.



They may in the future. There are also many charging stations at rest
stops now. Some restaurants have them so you can stop for a snack and
get a charge. More charging stations are popping up every day.

"Stopping for a snack & get a charge" How far will this take you? What's the
mileage for say a 20 minute charge?

So the customers are subsidizing the EV users (again).

What is many? Who pays to install, maintain them?


OK. your lack of knowledge is showing. There are a few commercial
enterprises putting them in and they charge the customer to use them and
they make a profit. Works like gas stations but they sell electric
instead of gas. Some have plans for discounts.

I wonder if battery swaps, of some sort, will ever be part of the EV
solution. My goal would be to reduce the charging time to roughly equal the
time it currently takes to fill a gas tank rather than hanging around at
the charging station for hours and hours. I don't think current EVs are
designed with quick battery swaps in mind, for multiple reasons, but it
could be nice at some point.

snip

Yes, that would be a plus. You are correct in that quick swaps are not designed
in. I believe for crash protection and fires. IDK Might be a future business
opportunity.

I put a little more thought into this post. One can't ignore the fact that
these batteries are rated for 600 volts and high amperage. That will more than
melt your monkey wrench. I think we all have to stay tuned...

That was the big warning that permeated every web site I read about
replacing the battery yourself. It was not only the danger to yourself
but to the electronics in the car if you did something wrong.
Everyone, even some sites catering to DIY guys said pay the man.

On Tue, 25 May 2021 17:14:39 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/25/2021 3:50 PM, Tekkie? wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2021 21:58:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...
...
I don't understand the logic of your posts. When you first started this thread
you were stating that we had to act now and quoted mandates. I stated I didn't
think mandates would work. You insisted we had to act now. I tried to expand
that mandates are the problem and you brought the future in. I added
agriculture because that is local to me and wanted your solution to the
abolition of gasoline.

I'm not abolishing gasoline but we will run out at some point, likely 40
to 50 years from now. Meantime, lets take steps for what we know is
coming, EV vehicles, like it or not. The less we use now, the longer it
will last for those combines you have.

They've been saying 40-50 year for at least 40-50 years and there is
more now than there was 40-50 years ago.

40-50 years ago "they" said we'd be in an ice age now. Nope. 40-50
years ago, "they" said we'd have nuclear fusion by now. Nope. 40-50
years ago, "they" said we'd all be starving because of overpopulation
now. Nope. "They" don't have a very good track record.

Once the soon to be here problem is solved we can take care of the farm.
If oil use is reduced the farm problem can be delayed. It is all
working together.



Ed, what you espouse is an example of closed minded reasoning. I am not being
negative; I am calling out the opposite views as I see them. For every positive
there is a negative.

Again, what is your solution regarding China? Why not mandate they stop
polluting? Why not mandate that all travel must be by rail? Why not mandate the
airplanes be grounded?

WTF does China have to do with us driving cars. You keep bringing a
straw man into it. We can ask but we cannot make China do anything.
Lets keep on topic.

If we used more rail we would use cars less, a good thing. I'm not
suggesting mandates for it, you are.

Hardly. We're using about as much rail as possible now. Intermodal has
made it possible.

We don't have to mandate grounding airplanes. Lack of jet fuel will do
that in 50 years.

Again, my position, mandates do NOT work, business and economics will solve the
problems you espouse.

Unfortunately, until you get those mandates changed we have to move
forward. Complaining about you cannot charge your EV when you visit
your brother is silly because that is an easily solved problem by the
time comes. Business is working on it.

When the time comes, industry will come up with farm equipment that is
either electric or mule powered but we don't have to do that yet.

We're quite capable of mule power. It gets messy for commuting,
though.

Your position or my position on the mandates does not matter. What
matters is real life and we have to deal with it and make life as good
as possible. Let me know when you get them changed.

If you want to stop China from polluting, stop buying stuff from them.
The less they make, the less they pollute.

It's hard not to buy from them. Our businesses and government have
made it all but impossible.

BTW. I do not own an electric car yet. If I had two cars, one may be.
I drove one and was quite impressed with many aspects of it, especially
how the AC worked on a sunny 90+ day.

Used electrics seem to be quite cheap now. It might be worth buying
one as a beater.

On Wed, 26 May 2021 07:35:10 +1000, Joey, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On 5/25/2021 4:04 PM, Tekkie� wrote:

On Tue, 25 May 2021 12:27:47 -0400, posted for all of us to
digest...


On Mon, 24 May 2021 23:55:10 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2021 21:58:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/24/2021 5:36 PM, Tekkie? wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2021 14:37:16 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


How do I do that with all the employees plugged in? Think I'll be be able to
plugin to the nursing home outlet? Do you think they will have charging
stations for visitors?


Do you think minimum wage nursing home employees will have EVs?

No. but the doctors, nurses, therapists and visitors may. Remains to be
seen.



They may in the future. There are also many charging stations at rest
stops now. Some restaurants have them so you can stop for a snack and
get a charge. More charging stations are popping up every day.

"Stopping for a snack & get a charge" How far will this take you? What's the
mileage for say a 20 minute charge?

So the customers are subsidizing the EV users (again).

What is many? Who pays to install, maintain them?


OK. your lack of knowledge is showing. There are a few commercial
enterprises putting them in and they charge the customer to use them and
they make a profit. Works like gas stations but they sell electric
instead of gas. Some have plans for discounts.

I wonder if battery swaps, of some sort, will ever be part of the EV
solution. My goal would be to reduce the charging time to roughly equal the
time it currently takes to fill a gas tank rather than hanging around at
the charging station for hours and hours. I don't think current EVs are
designed with quick battery swaps in mind, for multiple reasons, but it
could be nice at some point.

Not likely. People aren't going to want to trade a new battery for
something unknown. They're way too expensive to have the vehicle come
without a battery and pay a deposit for one at the electricity store.

There are already rebuilt batteries for Prius and other brands that were early
adopters.


Hybrid batteries are probably not that big but I read Tesla batteries a
half a ton

On 5/25/2021 5:35 PM, Joey wrote:





Once the soon to be here problem is solved we can take care of the
farm. If oil use is reduced the farm problem can be delayed.Â* It is
all working together.

Works much better with nukes.

Yep. nuke powered combines. Where can I buy one?



We don't have to mandate grounding airplanes.Â* Lack of jet fuel will
do that in 50 years.

That timescale remains to be seen and doesnt exist with
oil synthesised with the energy from nukes anyway,

Right. Where can I buy some of that? I want to see how my car runs on
it. What is the cost per gallon?



When the time comes, industry will come up with farm equipment that is
either electric or mule powered but we don't have to do that yet.

It will actually grow the fuel. That works fine now.

Ethanol may be part of a solution.



BTW. I do not own an electric car yet.Â* If I had two cars, one may be.
I drove one and was quite impressed withÂ* many aspects of it,
especially how the AC worked on a sunny 90+ day.

Pity about what that does to the range.

Why? If it gets me where I want to go, it does not matter. If range
drops from 300 miles to 200 miles I can still make my 20 mile trip
today. Non-issue for most of us.

The average commute to work in the US is 16 miles, or a 32 mile round
trip. For most, no problem.

On 5/25/2021 5:40 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:14:43 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

A bunch cut.

WTF does China have to do with us driving cars. You keep bringing a
straw man into it. We can ask but we cannot make China do anything.
Lets keep on topic.

More cut.

The world will need a lot of critical materials if we go to EVs if this is right.

" Indeed, a global energy transition like the one President Biden insists upon will send the need for critical materials skyrocketing by 2040:

Lithium: +4,200%
Graphite: +2,500%
Nickel: +1,900%
Rare-earths: +700%

The U.S. is setting itself up for major geopolitical risk: according to the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, China provides more than 85% of the worlds rare-earths and holds 67% of the global supply of scarce metals and minerals. The U.S. itself imports some 80% of its rare-earths from China.

China also controls the supply chains, utilizing its widening Belt and Road Initiative that now encompasses 45 countries (more aptly termed €œpartners€�). We have already seen the devastation that such Chinese supply dominance can bring. If we dont start thinking more strategically, we are on a path toward cartel dependence. Given the urgency of reducing greenhouse gas emissions, this is a possibility that we simply cannot afford."

From
https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2021/05/21/climate_change_and_the_energy_transition_demand_a_ us_mining_revolution_778126.html


I don't doubt any of that. However, scientist and engineers are working
on solutions to not need those materials It will affect us on many
things, not just EVs.

On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:26:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/25/2021 5:35 PM, Joey wrote:





Once the soon to be here problem is solved we can take care of the
farm. If oil use is reduced the farm problem can be delayed.* It is
all working together.

Works much better with nukes.

Yep. nuke powered combines. Where can I buy one?

They're used to harvest 30', glowing, ears of corn.


We don't have to mandate grounding airplanes.* Lack of jet fuel will
do that in 50 years.

That timescale remains to be seen and doesn’t exist with
oil synthesised with the energy from nukes anyway,

Right. Where can I buy some of that? I want to see how my car runs on
it. What is the cost per gallon?

If anyone believes in free energy, there's always hydrogen.

When the time comes, industry will come up with farm equipment that is
either electric or mule powered but we don't have to do that yet.

It will actually grow the fuel. That works fine now.

Ethanol may be part of a solution.

We know how to do that. No need to waste time or money on it now.

BTW. I do not own an electric car yet.* If I had two cars, one may be.
I drove one and was quite impressed with* many aspects of it,
especially how the AC worked on a sunny 90+ day.

Pity about what that does to the range.

Why? If it gets me where I want to go, it does not matter. If range
drops from 300 miles to 200 miles I can still make my 20 mile trip
today. Non-issue for most of us.

But not my 1200mi trip, or the 500mi trip next month.

The average commute to work in the US is 16 miles, or a 32 mile round
trip. For most, no problem.

But we don't buy a car for each task. One has to do it all.

On Tue, 25 May 2021 14:40:28 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:14:43 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

A bunch cut.

WTF does China have to do with us driving cars. You keep bringing a
straw man into it. We can ask but we cannot make China do anything.
Lets keep on topic.

More cut.

The world will need a lot of critical materials if we go to EVs if this is right.

" Indeed, a global energy transition like the one President Biden insists upon will send the need for critical materials skyrocketing by 2040:

Lithium: +4,200%
Graphite: +2,500%
Nickel: +1,900%
Rare-earths: +700%

The U.S. is setting itself up for major geopolitical risk: according to the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, China provides more than 85% of the world’s rare-earths and holds 67% of the global supply of scarce metals and minerals. The U.S. itself imports some 80% of its rare-earths from China.

China also controls the supply chains, utilizing its widening Belt and Road Initiative that now encompasses 45 countries (more aptly termed “partners”). We have already seen the devastation that such Chinese supply dominance can bring. If we don’t start thinking more strategically, we are on a path toward cartel dependence. Given the urgency of reducing greenhouse gas emissions, this is a possibility that we simply cannot afford."

From
https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2021/05/21/climate_change_and_the_energy_transition_demand_a_ us_mining_revolution_778126.html

Then there's the environmental devastation caused by the mining
operations. No one cares, though, because it's in China. One of the
reasons much of our manufacturing has moved.

On 05/25/2021 06:24 PM, wrote:
If anyone believes in free energy, there's always hydrogen.

When we were making aircraft strobe lights some were soda glass and some
were quartz glass. Oxy-acetylene is fine for soda but you need the
higher temperature of an oxy-hydrogen flame to blow the quartz tubes. So
we made arrangements to have a tube trailer spotted on site. This
required a permit.

That's when I learned that in a free association test if you say
hydrogen the response is 'bomb'. Arguably the hydrogen was safer than
the tanks of LOX and acetylene but it has a bad rap.

That does highlight a problem with hydrogen. The tubes have to handle
around 3000 psi so you're not getting a whole lot of hydrogen in a
traditional steel tube rig. Composites help but it's still a problem.

On 5/25/2021 8:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:26:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


Why? If it gets me where I want to go, it does not matter. If range
drops from 300 miles to 200 miles I can still make my 20 mile trip
today. Non-issue for most of us.

But not my 1200mi trip, or the 500mi trip next month.

Never said it is perfect for everyone in every circumstance. I make a
2499 mile trip a few times a year and no, I'd rather not do it in an
electric with present range.

The average commute to work in the US is 16 miles, or a 32 mile round
trip. For most, no problem.

But we don't buy a car for each task. One has to do it all.

Many do. I now have one car but for years I had two. Would be easy to
use one for the long trips and the other for the short stuff. Good
friend of mine has two cars. One gets an occasional 100 mile run, the
other never goes more than 20 miles.

Just because it does not suit your every need does not mean it is not
the perfect car for others. I know a guy that does not even have a car.
Two or three times a year he rents one. Just as I know people with
pickups and the most it ever carries is two bags of groceries.

Seems like people have a once or twice a year circumstance and therefor
nix the idea for everyone. Makes no sense, you are smarter than that.

On 05/25/2021 03:40 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The U.S. is setting itself up for major geopolitical risk: according to the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, China provides more than 85% of the worlds rare-earths and holds 67% of the global supply of scarce metals and minerals. The U.S. itself imports some 80% of its rare-earths from China.

For Bob Dylan's 80th birthday, I'll quote from one of his earlier songs:


"They complained in the East,
They are paying too high.
They say that your ore ain't worth digging.
That it's much cheaper down
In the South American towns
Where the miners work almost for nothing."

North Country Blues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pid0Ud4y3XY

The US has lithium:

https://www.motherjones.com/environm...us-extraction/

Thacker Pass might get a little torn but what the hell. Those Tesla
driving environmentalists from LA aren't likely to make it to that part
of Nevada. Ain't nothing but sagebrush, rabbits, and bobcats anyway.

On 05/25/2021 06:26 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 14:40:28 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:14:43 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

A bunch cut.

WTF does China have to do with us driving cars. You keep bringing a
straw man into it. We can ask but we cannot make China do anything.
Lets keep on topic.

More cut.

The world will need a lot of critical materials if we go to EVs if this is right.

" Indeed, a global energy transition like the one President Biden insists upon will send the need for critical materials skyrocketing by 2040:

Lithium: +4,200%
Graphite: +2,500%
Nickel: +1,900%
Rare-earths: +700%

The U.S. is setting itself up for major geopolitical risk: according to the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, China provides more than 85% of the world’s rare-earths and holds 67% of the global supply of scarce metals and minerals. The U.S. itself imports some 80% of its rare-earths from China.

China also controls the supply chains, utilizing its widening Belt and Road Initiative that now encompasses 45 countries (more aptly termed “partners”). We have already seen the devastation that such Chinese supply dominance can bring. If we don’t start thinking more strategically, we are on a path toward cartel dependence. Given the urgency of reducing greenhouse gas emissions, this is a possibility that we simply cannot afford."

From
https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2021/05/21/climate_change_and_the_energy_transition_demand_a_ us_mining_revolution_778126.html

Then there's the environmental devastation caused by the mining
operations. No one cares, though, because it's in China. One of the
reasons much of our manufacturing has moved.


I'm sure the Thacker Pass lithium mine will be environmentally
sensitive. Don't matter. A tourist in his Tesla would have to be very,
very lost to ever happen by. afaik the nearest whorehouse and casino is
in Winnemucca.

I always got a chuckle out of the sign in the whorehouse parking lot.
'Bull haulers, please park your rigs elsewhere'. I guess nothing spoils
the mood more than a bull wagon full of cows.

On 05/25/2021 02:41 PM, Tekkie� wrote:
I put a little more thought into this post. One can't ignore the fact that
these batteries are rated for 600 volts and high amperage. That will more than
melt your monkey wrench. I think we all have to stay tuned...

I think the first responders may need a refresher course...

On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:36:41 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 05/25/2021 06:24 PM, wrote:
If anyone believes in free energy, there's always hydrogen.

When we were making aircraft strobe lights some were soda glass and some
were quartz glass. Oxy-acetylene is fine for soda but you need the
higher temperature of an oxy-hydrogen flame to blow the quartz tubes. So
we made arrangements to have a tube trailer spotted on site. This
required a permit.

That's when I learned that in a free association test if you say
hydrogen the response is 'bomb'. Arguably the hydrogen was safer than
the tanks of LOX and acetylene but it has a bad rap.

Hydrogen is safer. It's very difficult to get hydrogen to explode.
Since it's much lighter than air, it dissipates quickly and won't
"pool".

That does highlight a problem with hydrogen. The tubes have to handle
around 3000 psi so you're not getting a whole lot of hydrogen in a
traditional steel tube rig. Composites help but it's still a problem.

Sure, it's a problem but the range should be equivalent to EVs and a
whole lot easier to fill.

Fix all that and it's still not a good fuel. Energy isn't free.

On Tue, 25 May 2021 21:52:47 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/25/2021 8:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:26:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


Why? If it gets me where I want to go, it does not matter. If range
drops from 300 miles to 200 miles I can still make my 20 mile trip
today. Non-issue for most of us.

But not my 1200mi trip, or the 500mi trip next month.

Never said it is perfect for everyone in every circumstance. I make a
2499 mile trip a few times a year and no, I'd rather not do it in an
electric with present range.

The point is that very few are going to have to vehicles just because
one has to stay in the county.

The average commute to work in the US is 16 miles, or a 32 mile round
trip. For most, no problem.

But we don't buy a car for each task. One has to do it all.

Many do. I now have one car but for years I had two. Would be easy to
use one for the long trips and the other for the short stuff. Good
friend of mine has two cars. One gets an occasional 100 mile run, the
other never goes more than 20 miles.

I had two, also (still do). They were spaced far enough apart that
one was a junker. The other was really roadworthy. I now use both
for distance driving.

Just because it does not suit your every need does not mean it is not
the perfect car for others. I know a guy that does not even have a car.
Two or three times a year he rents one. Just as I know people with
pickups and the most it ever carries is two bags of groceries.

Who ****ed in your Wheaties today. There are people who never leave
their town. There are couch potatoes who don't haul stuff. Sure,
there may be a market. It's *NOT* universal.

Seems like people have a once or twice a year circumstance and therefor
nix the idea for everyone. Makes no sense, you are smarter than that.

Get over yourself.

On Tue, 25 May 2021 20:05:10 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 05/25/2021 06:26 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 14:40:28 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:14:43 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

A bunch cut.

WTF does China have to do with us driving cars. You keep bringing a
straw man into it. We can ask but we cannot make China do anything.
Lets keep on topic.

More cut.

The world will need a lot of critical materials if we go to EVs if this is right.

" Indeed, a global energy transition like the one President Biden insists upon will send the need for critical materials skyrocketing by 2040:

Lithium: +4,200%
Graphite: +2,500%
Nickel: +1,900%
Rare-earths: +700%

The U.S. is setting itself up for major geopolitical risk: according to the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, China provides more than 85% of the world’s rare-earths and holds 67% of the global supply of scarce metals and minerals. The U.S. itself imports some 80% of its rare-earths from China.

China also controls the supply chains, utilizing its widening Belt and Road Initiative that now encompasses 45 countries (more aptly termed “partners”). We have already seen the devastation that such Chinese supply dominance can bring. If we don’t start thinking more strategically, we are on a path toward cartel dependence. Given the urgency of reducing greenhouse gas emissions, this is a possibility that we simply cannot afford."

From
https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2021/05/21/climate_change_and_the_energy_transition_demand_a_ us_mining_revolution_778126.html

Then there's the environmental devastation caused by the mining
operations. No one cares, though, because it's in China. One of the
reasons much of our manufacturing has moved.


I'm sure the Thacker Pass lithium mine will be environmentally
sensitive. Don't matter. A tourist in his Tesla would have to be very,
very lost to ever happen by. afaik the nearest whorehouse and casino is
in Winnemucca.

Do you think the US can produce all of the lithium it needs?

I always got a chuckle out of the sign in the whorehouse parking lot.
'Bull haulers, please park your rigs elsewhere'. I guess nothing spoils
the mood more than a bull wagon full of cows.

Not a very good advertisement for their product.

On 5/25/2021 10:17 PM, wrote:


But we don't buy a car for each task. One has to do it all.

Many do. I now have one car but for years I had two. Would be easy to
use one for the long trips and the other for the short stuff. Good
friend of mine has two cars. One gets an occasional 100 mile run, the
other never goes more than 20 miles.

I had two, also (still do). They were spaced far enough apart that
one was a junker. The other was really roadworthy. I now use both
for distance driving.

Just because it does not suit your every need does not mean it is not
the perfect car for others. I know a guy that does not even have a car.
Two or three times a year he rents one. Just as I know people with
pickups and the most it ever carries is two bags of groceries.

Who ****ed in your Wheaties today. There are people who never leave
their town. There are couch potatoes who don't haul stuff. Sure,
there may be a market. It's *NOT* universal.

There are millions of cars sold every year. The market for them is huge
and many types available.

Seems like people have a once or twice a year circumstance and therefor
nix the idea for everyone. Makes no sense, you are smarter than that.

Get over yourself.

I guess you aren't smarter than that.

On 05/25/2021 02:06 PM, Tekkie� wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2021 19:47:44 -0600, rbowman posted for all of us to digest...


https://www.secretsofuniverse.in/tes...ion-technique/

There are some far field technologies but they have limited range and
tend to be detrimental to humans or other furry things that wander into
the beam.

I worked for a company that made dielectric heaters for the plastics
industry. Our quick and dirty test for a leaky RF cavity consisted of a
fluorescent tube taped to a broomstick. Transmitting enough power to
make it light up was not a good thing.

Sterility guaranteed!


There were two rumors -- sterility or increased fertility, take your
pick. This was the early '70s and microwave ovens weren't a thing. It
didn't take long for the people on the shop floor to figure out they
could heat their lunch in one, right after they learned to take their
meatball sandwich out of the tinfoil. The bigger models were 7.5 or 15
kilowatts.

We kept one of the little bench models in the engineering lab. It did
wonders for the day old stuff from Freihofer's Bakery across the bridge.

fwiw, they were still using horsepower delivery in the city when I was a
kid.

https://s.hdnux.com/photos/20/35/52/...6/5/1200x0.jpg

Unfortunately we were out in the country and it was a bread truck
painted to match. Put the sign in the window if you wanted anything.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote
Joey wrote

Once the soon to be here problem is solved we can take care of the farm.
If oil use is reduced the farm problem can be delayed.

There is no farm problem, farm machinery works fine on grown fuel.

And they are the ones that grow it. Novel concept I realise.

It is all working together.

It is indeed with farm machinery.

Works much better with nukes.

Yep. nuke powered combines. Where can I buy one?

No need to, they harvest the fuel they use fine.

We don't have to mandate grounding airplanes. Lack of jet fuel will do
that in 50 years.

That timescale remains to be seen and doesnt exist with
oil synthesised with the energy from nukes anyway,

Right. Where can I buy some of that?

Dont need to, its easier to keep using the stuff out
of the ground for more than half a century now.

I want to see how my car runs on it. What is the cost per gallon?

See above.

When the time comes, industry will come up with farm equipment that is
either electric or mule powered but we don't have to do that yet.

It will actually grow the fuel. That works fine now.

Ethanol may be part of a solution.

I wasnt talking about ethanol. Diesel
engines work fine right now on grown oil.

BTW. I do not own an electric car yet. If I had two cars, one may be. I
drove one and was quite impressed with many aspects of it, especially
how the AC worked on a sunny 90+ day.

Pity about what that does to the range.

Why?

Because the energy to run it has to come from
somewhere. In spades in the depths of winter, it
cant be waste heat like it can be with an ICE in winter.

If it gets me where I want to go, it does not matter.

And when it doesnt, it does.

If range drops from 300 miles to 200 miles

It drops a hell of a lot more than that in the depths of winter.

I can still make my 20 mile trip today.

But not your longer trips without lots of
wasted time waiting for it to be recharged.

Non-issue for most of us.

Bull****.

The average commute to work in the US is 16 miles, or a 32 mile round
trip.

The average isnt what matters, its the longer than
average commutes and there are plenty of those.

For most, no problem.

Wrong again, half of them do more than the average commute.

Makes a lot more sense to stop ****ing all that natural
gas against the wall heating houses, food, water etc with
no downsides with doing that instead of going to stupid
EVs which have lots of downsides and always will, and
**** the environment with their stupid batteries.

On Tue, 25 May 2021 22:23:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/25/2021 10:17 PM, wrote:


But we don't buy a car for each task. One has to do it all.

Many do. I now have one car but for years I had two. Would be easy to
use one for the long trips and the other for the short stuff. Good
friend of mine has two cars. One gets an occasional 100 mile run, the
other never goes more than 20 miles.

I had two, also (still do). They were spaced far enough apart that
one was a junker. The other was really roadworthy. I now use both
for distance driving.

Just because it does not suit your every need does not mean it is not
the perfect car for others. I know a guy that does not even have a car.
Two or three times a year he rents one. Just as I know people with
pickups and the most it ever carries is two bags of groceries.

Who ****ed in your Wheaties today. There are people who never leave
their town. There are couch potatoes who don't haul stuff. Sure,
there may be a market. It's *NOT* universal.

There are millions of cars sold every year. The market for them is huge
and many types available.

Seems like people have a once or twice a year circumstance and therefor
nix the idea for everyone. Makes no sense, you are smarter than that.

Get over yourself.

I guess you aren't smarter than that.
You mean you ever had a doubt????

Many people rent a vehicle for odd trips out of town because their
car is eother unsuitable by design, or old enough they don't want to
trust them on a trip.

On Tue, 25 May 2021 20:08:00 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


I think the first responders may need a refresher course...

Your gob REALLY has a life of it's own, eh, senile gossip. Did you ever ever
get it under control? BG

On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:36:41 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


When we were making aircraft strobe lights

Oh, no! And the senile babbling continues!

On Wed, 26 May 2021 12:58:28 +1000, Joey, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:



There is no farm problem

Now ALSO an expert on American farms, you abnormal auto-contradicting senile
pest? LMAO

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Tue, 25 May 2021 20:05:10 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


I'm sure the Thacker Pass lithium mine will be environmentally
sensitive. Don't matter. A tourist in his Tesla would have to be very,
very lost to ever happen by. afaik the nearest whorehouse and casino is
in Winnemucca.

In Winnemucca, eh, senile gossip? LOL

On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:59:57 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


For Bob Dylan's 80th birthday, I'll quote from one of his earlier songs:

Sure you will, senile gossip! ANYTHING to keep your gob running!

On Tue, 25 May 2021 20:28:32 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


There were two rumors -- sterility or increased fertility, take your
pick. This was the early '70s and microwave ovens weren't a thing. It
didn't take long for the people on the shop floor to figure

Oh, no! FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH

On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 9:52:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/25/2021 8:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:26:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


Why? If it gets me where I want to go, it does not matter. If range
drops from 300 miles to 200 miles I can still make my 20 mile trip
today. Non-issue for most of us.

But not my 1200mi trip, or the 500mi trip next month.
Never said it is perfect for everyone in every circumstance. I make a
2499 mile trip a few times a year and no, I'd rather not do it in an
electric with present range.

The average commute to work in the US is 16 miles, or a 32 mile round
trip. For most, no problem.

But we don't buy a car for each task. One has to do it all.
Many do. I now have one car but for years I had two. Would be easy to
use one for the long trips and the other for the short stuff. Good
friend of mine has two cars. One gets an occasional 100 mile run, the
other never goes more than 20 miles.

Just because it does not suit your every need does not mean it is not
the perfect car for others. I know a guy that does not even have a car.
Two or three times a year he rents one. Just as I know people with
pickups and the most it ever carries is two bags of groceries.

Seems like people have a once or twice a year circumstance and therefor
nix the idea for everyone. Makes no sense, you are smarter than that.

One thing conspicuously absent from this discussion among old men is
demographics.

We'll all be dead before gas runs out.

Young people are not embracing driving in the numbers they used to. Fewer
have driver's licenses; fewer still own cars. Many of them are content to
call for a ride or rent a car when they need one. If they want to get to a
city 300 miles away, they fly.

Short-range electric vehicles might be much more palatable to those who
will be driving after we've laid down our car keys.

Cindy Hamilton

On 05/25/2021 08:21 PM, wrote:
Do you think the US can produce all of the lithium it needs?

They are claiming 60,000 metric tons per year. Global production in 2019
was 86,000 tons, down to 82,000 in 2020.

After you extract the lithium it doesn't go away.

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/05/16/...ery-recycling/

I know of two lead acid battery recycling plants in LA and I assume
there are some in the east. In the US 80% of the lead is from secondary
production. It probably would be higher if you mined the local firing
range

If those levels can be achieved with lithium primary production become
less important. As usual, follow the Franklins to predict what actually
will be done.

On Tue, 25 May 2021 21:52:47 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/25/2021 8:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:26:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


Why? If it gets me where I want to go, it does not matter. If range
drops from 300 miles to 200 miles I can still make my 20 mile trip
today. Non-issue for most of us.

But not my 1200mi trip, or the 500mi trip next month.

Never said it is perfect for everyone in every circumstance. I make a
2499 mile trip a few times a year and no, I'd rather not do it in an
electric with present range.

The average commute to work in the US is 16 miles, or a 32 mile round
trip. For most, no problem.

But we don't buy a car for each task. One has to do it all.

Many do. I now have one car but for years I had two. Would be easy to
use one for the long trips and the other for the short stuff. Good
friend of mine has two cars. One gets an occasional 100 mile run, the
other never goes more than 20 miles.

Just because it does not suit your every need does not mean it is not
the perfect car for others. I know a guy that does not even have a car.
Two or three times a year he rents one. Just as I know people with
pickups and the most it ever carries is two bags of groceries.

Seems like people have a once or twice a year circumstance and therefor
nix the idea for everyone. Makes no sense, you are smarter than that.

The flaw in the idea that you will just rent a car is there might not
be any to rent. Try getting one now and we have 300 million ICE cars.
I wanted to rent a car to go to Pompano and even a week out, nobody
had one. (Hertz, Enterprise or Avis/Budget).
Imagine what it would be like if we were making them go away by
design.
The hybrid sounds good but in real life they don't turn out to be that
much more efficient for the premium you pay to buy one.

On Tue, 25 May 2021 20:08:00 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 05/25/2021 02:41 PM, Tekkie? wrote:
I put a little more thought into this post. One can't ignore the fact that
these batteries are rated for 600 volts and high amperage. That will more than
melt your monkey wrench. I think we all have to stay tuned...

I think the first responders may need a refresher course...

I know they have trouble putting out a lithium battery fire. They
pretty much keep burning until the battery dies. Squirting water on it
doesn't do much.

On Tue, 25 May 2021 22:13:15 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:36:41 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 05/25/2021 06:24 PM, wrote:
If anyone believes in free energy, there's always hydrogen.

When we were making aircraft strobe lights some were soda glass and some
were quartz glass. Oxy-acetylene is fine for soda but you need the
higher temperature of an oxy-hydrogen flame to blow the quartz tubes. So
we made arrangements to have a tube trailer spotted on site. This
required a permit.

That's when I learned that in a free association test if you say
hydrogen the response is 'bomb'. Arguably the hydrogen was safer than
the tanks of LOX and acetylene but it has a bad rap.

Hydrogen is safer. It's very difficult to get hydrogen to explode.
Since it's much lighter than air, it dissipates quickly and won't
"pool".

That does highlight a problem with hydrogen. The tubes have to handle
around 3000 psi so you're not getting a whole lot of hydrogen in a
traditional steel tube rig. Composites help but it's still a problem.

Sure, it's a problem but the range should be equivalent to EVs and a
whole lot easier to fill.

Fix all that and it's still not a good fuel. Energy isn't free.

Hydrogen isn't really a fuel in the practical sense. It is just a
fairly inefficient storage scheme.
If you are deriving your hydrogen from water, you use more energy
getting it out than you get when you burn it.
OTOH most commercially derived hydrogen comes from natural gas so you
end up with the same issues we are talking about with possibly
dwindling supply if we really started using any large quantity.
Have you priced helium lately?

On Wed, 26 May 2021 08:04:07 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


They are claiming 60,000 metric tons per year. Global production in 2019
was 86,000 tons, down to 82,000 in 2020.

Off topic ****, lowbrowwoman, yet AGAIN!

On 5/26/2021 11:43 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 22:13:15 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:36:41 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 05/25/2021 06:24 PM, wrote:
If anyone believes in free energy, there's always hydrogen.

When we were making aircraft strobe lights some were soda glass and some
were quartz glass. Oxy-acetylene is fine for soda but you need the
higher temperature of an oxy-hydrogen flame to blow the quartz tubes. So
we made arrangements to have a tube trailer spotted on site. This
required a permit.

That's when I learned that in a free association test if you say
hydrogen the response is 'bomb'. Arguably the hydrogen was safer than
the tanks of LOX and acetylene but it has a bad rap.

Hydrogen is safer. It's very difficult to get hydrogen to explode.
Since it's much lighter than air, it dissipates quickly and won't
"pool".

That does highlight a problem with hydrogen. The tubes have to handle
around 3000 psi so you're not getting a whole lot of hydrogen in a
traditional steel tube rig. Composites help but it's still a problem.

Sure, it's a problem but the range should be equivalent to EVs and a
whole lot easier to fill.

Fix all that and it's still not a good fuel. Energy isn't free.

Hydrogen isn't really a fuel in the practical sense. It is just a
fairly inefficient storage scheme.
If you are deriving your hydrogen from water, you use more energy
getting it out than you get when you burn it.
OTOH most commercially derived hydrogen comes from natural gas so you
end up with the same issues we are talking about with possibly
dwindling supply if we really started using any large quantity.
Have you priced helium lately?


I recalled the suggestion years ago of using methanol for fuel cells in
cars. Good article still makes a lot of sense:

https://news.usc.edu/5621/George-Ola...energy-crisis/

On 5/26/2021 11:30 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 21:52:47 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/25/2021 8:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:26:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


Why? If it gets me where I want to go, it does not matter. If range
drops from 300 miles to 200 miles I can still make my 20 mile trip
today. Non-issue for most of us.

But not my 1200mi trip, or the 500mi trip next month.

Never said it is perfect for everyone in every circumstance. I make a
2499 mile trip a few times a year and no, I'd rather not do it in an
electric with present range.

The average commute to work in the US is 16 miles, or a 32 mile round
trip. For most, no problem.

But we don't buy a car for each task. One has to do it all.

Many do. I now have one car but for years I had two. Would be easy to
use one for the long trips and the other for the short stuff. Good
friend of mine has two cars. One gets an occasional 100 mile run, the
other never goes more than 20 miles.

Just because it does not suit your every need does not mean it is not
the perfect car for others. I know a guy that does not even have a car.
Two or three times a year he rents one. Just as I know people with
pickups and the most it ever carries is two bags of groceries.

Seems like people have a once or twice a year circumstance and therefor
nix the idea for everyone. Makes no sense, you are smarter than that.

The flaw in the idea that you will just rent a car is there might not
be any to rent. Try getting one now and we have 300 million ICE cars.
I wanted to rent a car to go to Pompano and even a week out, nobody
had one. (Hertz, Enterprise or Avis/Budget).
Imagine what it would be like if we were making them go away by
design.
The hybrid sounds good but in real life they don't turn out to be that
much more efficient for the premium you pay to buy one.


You do know why there is a shortage today don't you? Has nothing to do
with what it will be like in 1, 5, 10, 20 years. With travel down,
rental companies sold off excess fleet.

Just read this morning, Ford is developing two new EV platforms. They
will be investing 30 Billion dollars in EV.

You probably know Volkswagen is going to stop making ICE in 2026.

On Wed, 26 May 2021 12:01:04 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 5/26/2021 11:43 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 22:13:15 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:36:41 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 05/25/2021 06:24 PM, wrote:
If anyone believes in free energy, there's always hydrogen.

When we were making aircraft strobe lights some were soda glass and some
were quartz glass. Oxy-acetylene is fine for soda but you need the
higher temperature of an oxy-hydrogen flame to blow the quartz tubes. So
we made arrangements to have a tube trailer spotted on site. This
required a permit.

That's when I learned that in a free association test if you say
hydrogen the response is 'bomb'. Arguably the hydrogen was safer than
the tanks of LOX and acetylene but it has a bad rap.

Hydrogen is safer. It's very difficult to get hydrogen to explode.
Since it's much lighter than air, it dissipates quickly and won't
"pool".

That does highlight a problem with hydrogen. The tubes have to handle
around 3000 psi so you're not getting a whole lot of hydrogen in a
traditional steel tube rig. Composites help but it's still a problem.

Sure, it's a problem but the range should be equivalent to EVs and a
whole lot easier to fill.

Fix all that and it's still not a good fuel. Energy isn't free.

Hydrogen isn't really a fuel in the practical sense. It is just a
fairly inefficient storage scheme.
If you are deriving your hydrogen from water, you use more energy
getting it out than you get when you burn it.
OTOH most commercially derived hydrogen comes from natural gas so you
end up with the same issues we are talking about with possibly
dwindling supply if we really started using any large quantity.
Have you priced helium lately?


I recalled the suggestion years ago of using methanol for fuel cells in
cars. Good article still makes a lot of sense:

https://news.usc.edu/5621/George-Ola...energy-crisis/

He still points out methanol is a by product of fossil fuels and when
he goes off on the hydrogen from water tangent he ignores the
inefficiency of that process and ignores where that "sufficient cheap
energy" will come from.
Ne does go down the nuclear rabbit hole with Rod/Joey but that seems a
pretty remote possibility until they take away Jane Fonda's Oscar for
China Syndrome and dismiss the film as a Roadrunner cartoon.

On 5/26/2021 2:41 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 9:52:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/25/2021 8:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:26:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


Why? If it gets me where I want to go, it does not matter. If range
drops from 300 miles to 200 miles I can still make my 20 mile trip
today. Non-issue for most of us.

But not my 1200mi trip, or the 500mi trip next month.
Never said it is perfect for everyone in every circumstance. I make a
2499 mile trip a few times a year and no, I'd rather not do it in an
electric with present range.

The average commute to work in the US is 16 miles, or a 32 mile round
trip. For most, no problem.

But we don't buy a car for each task. One has to do it all.
Many do. I now have one car but for years I had two. Would be easy to
use one for the long trips and the other for the short stuff. Good
friend of mine has two cars. One gets an occasional 100 mile run, the
other never goes more than 20 miles.

Just because it does not suit your every need does not mean it is not
the perfect car for others. I know a guy that does not even have a car.
Two or three times a year he rents one. Just as I know people with
pickups and the most it ever carries is two bags of groceries.

Seems like people have a once or twice a year circumstance and therefor
nix the idea for everyone. Makes no sense, you are smarter than that.

One thing conspicuously absent from this discussion among old men is
demographics.

We'll all be dead before gas runs out.

Young people are not embracing driving in the numbers they used to. Fewer
have driver's licenses; fewer still own cars. Many of them are content to
call for a ride or rent a car when they need one. If they want to get to a
city 300 miles away, they fly.

Short-range electric vehicles might be much more palatable to those who
will be driving after we've laid down our car keys.

Cindy Hamilton


Of course, everyone knows the question is not "gas running out". The
question is do we want to badly change the planets climate.

On Wed, 26 May 2021 12:14:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/26/2021 11:30 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 21:52:47 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/25/2021 8:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:26:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


Why? If it gets me where I want to go, it does not matter. If range
drops from 300 miles to 200 miles I can still make my 20 mile trip
today. Non-issue for most of us.

But not my 1200mi trip, or the 500mi trip next month.

Never said it is perfect for everyone in every circumstance. I make a
2499 mile trip a few times a year and no, I'd rather not do it in an
electric with present range.

The average commute to work in the US is 16 miles, or a 32 mile round
trip. For most, no problem.

But we don't buy a car for each task. One has to do it all.

Many do. I now have one car but for years I had two. Would be easy to
use one for the long trips and the other for the short stuff. Good
friend of mine has two cars. One gets an occasional 100 mile run, the
other never goes more than 20 miles.

Just because it does not suit your every need does not mean it is not
the perfect car for others. I know a guy that does not even have a car.
Two or three times a year he rents one. Just as I know people with
pickups and the most it ever carries is two bags of groceries.

Seems like people have a once or twice a year circumstance and therefor
nix the idea for everyone. Makes no sense, you are smarter than that.

The flaw in the idea that you will just rent a car is there might not
be any to rent. Try getting one now and we have 300 million ICE cars.
I wanted to rent a car to go to Pompano and even a week out, nobody
had one. (Hertz, Enterprise or Avis/Budget).
Imagine what it would be like if we were making them go away by
design.
The hybrid sounds good but in real life they don't turn out to be that
much more efficient for the premium you pay to buy one.


You do know why there is a shortage today don't you? Has nothing to do
with what it will be like in 1, 5, 10, 20 years. With travel down,
rental companies sold off excess fleet.

They are still selling them tho. I just bought 2.
I am not sure why they remain so pessimistic. Hertz is Bankrupt tho.
If their business model is people renting to go on long distance
vacation it will be a different paradigm than folks just getting one
at the airport to drive around town for a few days.

Just read this morning, Ford is developing two new EV platforms. They
will be investing 30 Billion dollars in EV.

You probably know Volkswagen is going to stop making ICE in 2026.

Time will tell.

On 5/26/2021 12:01 PM, Frank wrote:

That's when I learned that in a free association test if you say
hydrogen the response is 'bomb'. Arguably the hydrogen was safer than
the tanks of LOX and acetylene but it has a bad rap.

Hydrogen is safer.Â* It's very difficult to get hydrogen to explode.
Since it's much lighter than air, it dissipates quickly and won't
"pool".

That does highlight a problem with hydrogen. The tubes have to handle
around 3000 psi so you're not getting a whole lot of hydrogen in a
traditional steel tube rig. Composites help but it's still a problem.

Sure, it's a problem but the range should be equivalent to EVs and a
whole lot easier to fill.

Fix all that and it's still not a good fuel.Â* Energy isn't free.

Hydrogen isn't really a fuel in the practical sense. It is just a
fairly inefficient storage scheme.
If you are deriving your hydrogen from water, you use more energy
getting it out than you get when you burn it.
OTOH most commercially derived hydrogen comes from natural gas so you
end up with the same issues we are talking about with possibly
dwindling supply if we really started using any large quantity.
Have you priced helium lately?


I recalled the suggestion years ago of using methanol for fuel cells in
cars.Â* Good article still makes a lot of sense:

https://news.usc.edu/5621/George-Ola...energy-crisis/


They do run E85 in places so it can work. I wonder how mny cornfields
will be needed. No wonder Gates is buying up farmland.

On 5/26/2021 1:38 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 5/26/2021 2:41 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 9:52:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/25/2021 8:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2021 19:26:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


Why? If it gets me where I want to go, it does not matter. If range
drops from 300 miles to 200 miles I can still make my 20 mile trip
today. Non-issue for most of us.

But not my 1200mi trip, or the 500mi trip next month.
Never said it is perfect for everyone in every circumstance. I make a
2499 mile trip a few times a year and no, I'd rather not do it in an
electric with present range.

The average commute to work in the US is 16 miles, or a 32 mile round
trip. For most, no problem.

But we don't buy a car for each task. One has to do it all.
Many do. I now have one car but for years I had two. Would be easy to
use one for the long trips and the other for the short stuff. Good
friend of mine has two cars. One gets an occasional 100 mile run, the
other never goes more than 20 miles.

Just because it does not suit your every need does not mean it is not
the perfect car for others. I know a guy that does not even have a car.
Two or three times a year he rents one. Just as I know people with
pickups and the most it ever carries is two bags of groceries.

Seems like people have a once or twice a year circumstance and therefor
nix the idea for everyone. Makes no sense, you are smarter than that.

One thing conspicuously absent from this discussion among old men is
demographics.

We'll all be dead before gas runs out.

Young people are not embracing driving in the numbers they used to.
Fewer
have driver's licenses; fewer still own cars.Â* Many of them are
content to
call for a ride or rent a car when they need one.Â* If they want to get
to a
city 300 miles away, they fly.

Short-range electric vehicles might be much more palatable to those who
will be driving after we've laid down our car keys.

Cindy Hamilton


Of course, everyone knows the question is not "gas running out". The
question is do we want to badly change the planets climate.

Easier to just say the climate has always changed and on a cold winter
day deny global warming. Look, its snowing so there can't be global
warming.

wrote
Ed Pawlowski wrote
wrote
Ed Pawlowski wrote

Why? If it gets me where I want to go, it does not matter.
If range drops from 300 miles to 200 miles I can still make
my 20 mile trip today. Non-issue for most of us.

But not my 1200mi trip, or the 500mi trip next month.

Never said it is perfect for everyone in every circumstance.
I make a 2499 mile trip a few times a year and no, I'd rather
not do it in an electric with present range.

The average commute to work in the US is 16 miles,
or a 32 mile round trip. For most, no problem.

But we don't buy a car for each task. One has to do it all.

Many do. I now have one car but for years I had two. Would
be easy to use one for the long trips and the other for the short
stuff. Good friend of mine has two cars. One gets an occasional
100 mile run, the other never goes more than 20 miles.

Just because it does not suit your every need does not mean it is not
the perfect car for others. I know a guy that does not even have a car.
Two or three times a year he rents one. Just as I know people with
pickups and the most it ever carries is two bags of groceries.

Seems like people have a once or twice a year circumstance and therefor
nix the idea for everyone. Makes no sense, you are smarter than that.

One thing conspicuously absent from this
discussion among old men is demographics.

We'll all be dead before gas runs out.

Not everyone is a self centered selfish
arsehole like you and Muggles, fortunately.

Some even have kids and grandkids too.

Young people are not embracing driving
in the numbers they used to. Fewer have
driver's licenses; fewer still own cars.

BULL****. I dont know a single one that doesnt.

I used to, but even he now drives every day.

Many of them are content to call for a ride
or rent a car when they need one. If they
want to get to a city 300 miles away, they fly.

**** all of them never drive.

Short-range electric vehicles might be much more palatable
to those who will be driving after we've laid down our car keys.

ICEs are still much better for them because they can
do all the trips better and even if they mostly uber
etc those are still better ICE, Some engineer you are.