[Arlen Holder]

Car is just bought by a kid just learning to drive (he's 16).
2004 Mitsubishi Lancer ES

Neighbors asked me to teach him how to replace the oxygen sensor (due to
emissions code).

The threads were stripped and "filled" with some kind of hardened "metal
paste".

The new part is a Denso 234-4739 (marked 485000-4060, 07U05)
The old part is a Denso (marked 234000, 8643, 07E23)

What would you suggest?
- Tap the threads? (22mm hex nut)
- New exhaust manifold?

http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3234632o2sensor01.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8064061o2sensor02.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6399144o2sensor03.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1574232o2sensor04.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9418974o2sensor05.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4183674o2sensor06.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5856176o2sensor07.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3486734o2sensor08.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9694112o2sensor09.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5019152o2sensor10.jpg

[Paul in Houston TX[_2_]]

Arlen Holder wrote:
Car is just bought by a kid just learning to drive (he's 16).
2004 Mitsubishi Lancer ES

Neighbors asked me to teach him how to replace the oxygen sensor (due to
emissions code).

The threads were stripped and "filled" with some kind of hardened "metal
paste".

The new part is a Denso 234-4739 (marked 485000-4060, 07U05)
The old part is a Denso (marked 234000, 8643, 07E23)

What would you suggest?
- Tap the threads? (22mm hex nut)
- New exhaust manifold?

IF it were my car and IF the manifold is steel, I would remove the manifold,
then remove the square nut, and weld or braze in a thin-ish nut of appropriate
thread size.
If no thin-ish nut is available then make one with the dremel.
The sensor needs to be in the flame and also have good thermal conductivity to
the manifold.

[Bob F]

On 8/1/2018 8:31 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Car is just bought by a kid just learning to drive (he's 16).
2004 Mitsubishi Lancer ES

Neighbors asked me to teach him how to replace the oxygen sensor (due to
emissions code).

The threads were stripped and "filled" with some kind of hardened "metal
paste".

The new part is a Denso 234-4739 (marked 485000-4060, 07U05)
The old part is a Denso (marked 234000, 8643, 07E23)

What would you suggest?
- Tap the threads? (22mm hex nut)
- New exhaust manifold?

http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3234632o2sensor01.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8064061o2sensor02.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6399144o2sensor03.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1574232o2sensor04.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9418974o2sensor05.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4183674o2sensor06.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5856176o2sensor07.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3486734o2sensor08.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9694112o2sensor09.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5019152o2sensor10.jpg

I'm no expert on this particular situation, but perhaps a helicoil would
solve it easily.

[rbowman]

On 08/01/2018 09:31 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
What would you suggest?
- Tap the threads? (22mm hex nut)
- New exhaust manifold?

Back to your friendly Loctite dealer for the Form-A-Thread kit? Trip to
a junkyard for a new manifold if replacing it isn't too painful? Helicoils?

[Arlen Holder]

On 1 Aug 2018 21:25:57 GMT, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

IF it were my car and IF the manifold is steel, I would remove the manifold,
then remove the square nut, and weld or braze in a thin-ish nut of appropriate
thread size.
If no thin-ish nut is available then make one with the dremel.
The sensor needs to be in the flame and also have good thermal conductivity to
the manifold.

I had not thought of putting a new nut on.
I'll look in the morning to see if the nut is the only threads.
I'm sure the sensor has to be "in" the stream of hot vapors.

It seems to be cast iron. Aren't they all that way?
(It's rusty.)

[Arlen Holder]

On 1 Aug 2018 21:41:29 GMT, Bob F wrote:

I'm no expert on this particular situation, but perhaps a helicoil would
solve it easily.

I guess it can't hurt.
I can contact Denso to figure out the thread pitch for their O2 sensors.

I was thinking of cleaning up the threads, but they look really bad.
How on earth can ANYONE do that to a bunch of threads?

What did they do?
It's not even hard to get to ... it's right there ... in front.

[Arlen Holder]

On 1 Aug 2018 22:26:00 GMT, rbowman wrote:

Back to your friendly Loctite dealer for the Form-A-Thread kit? Trip to
a junkyard for a new manifold if replacing it isn't too painful? Helicoils?

Seems to me the choices are...
a. New or used manifold (if it's not too hard to replace)
b. Drill it out and helicoil it (nothing to lose really)
c. Clean it up with a tap (I don't have the tap, which won't be cheap)
d. Shove it in there with epoxy (I hate that idea so I don't want to)

[Arlen Holder]

On 2 Aug 2018 05:39:22 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

b. Drill it out and helicoil it (nothing to lose really)

Googling, I'm not yet sure a helicoil will work on a through hole.

I think all lambda sensors are 18x1.5 (I'm not sure, but people said that
on the net). Some say it's the same thread as for spark plugs.

If it's the same as for spark plugs, this might work, maybe?
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...2002/5014964-P

Napa seems to sell a thread chaser for spark plugs, if it's the same thread
as spark plugs...
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER730

This bung might be able to be welded on by a shop if the threads are right:
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...plug-kit-3735/

The manifold is almost five hundred bucks
https://www.carid.com/eastern-cataly...46&url=4700416

[Steve W.[_4_]]

Arlen Holder wrote:
On 2 Aug 2018 05:39:22 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

b. Drill it out and helicoil it (nothing to lose really)

Googling, I'm not yet sure a helicoil will work on a through hole.

I think all lambda sensors are 18x1.5 (I'm not sure, but people said that
on the net). Some say it's the same thread as for spark plugs.

If it's the same as for spark plugs, this might work, maybe?
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...2002/5014964-P

Napa seems to sell a thread chaser for spark plugs, if it's the same thread
as spark plugs...
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER730

This bung might be able to be welded on by a shop if the threads are right:
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...plug-kit-3735/

The manifold is almost five hundred bucks
https://www.carid.com/eastern-cataly...46&url=4700416

Same threads as a spark plug. The easy repair is a plug rethread kit. It
has an oversized insert with a self guiding fluted cutter/tap
combination. Then you trim the threads on an insert so they don't block
the sensor tip. Screw it into place and screw in the sensor. About the
third time you drive the car that insert will become a permanent part of
the manifold.

Very common repair, done all the time.

--
Steve W.

[Arlen Holder]

On 1 Aug 2018 23:30:57 GMT, Steve W. wrote:

Same threads as a spark plug. The easy repair is a plug rethread kit. It
has an oversized insert with a self guiding fluted cutter/tap
combination. Then you trim the threads on an insert so they don't block
the sensor tip. Screw it into place and screw in the sensor. About the
third time you drive the car that insert will become a permanent part of
the manifold.

Very common repair, done all the time.

Thanks for confirming it's the same threads as a spark plug, which, at the
moment, seem to be 18x1.5 for them.

Googling, it seems cast iron isn't easy to weld, and that the plug rethread
might work, but, the heat cycling has likely hardened the bung nut, such
that it's a LOT harder (some say) to deal with than a spark plug thread
which is typically in aluminum engine blocks (they say).

Searching for this "plug rethread kit", is this the $62 kit you speak of?
https://www.amazon.com/Thread-Kits-1.../dp/B0025PQITU

[Uncle Monster[_2_]]

On Wednesday, August 1, 2018 at 10:32:04 PM UTC-5, Arlen Holder wrote:
Car is just bought by a kid just learning to drive (he's 16).
2004 Mitsubishi Lancer ES

Neighbors asked me to teach him how to replace the oxygen sensor (due to
emissions code).

The threads were stripped and "filled" with some kind of hardened "metal
paste".

The new part is a Denso 234-4739 (marked 485000-4060, 07U05)
The old part is a Denso (marked 234000, 8643, 07E23)

What would you suggest?
- Tap the threads? (22mm hex nut)
- New exhaust manifold?

http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3234632o2sensor01.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8064061o2sensor02.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6399144o2sensor03.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1574232o2sensor04.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9418974o2sensor05.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4183674o2sensor06.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5856176o2sensor07.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3486734o2sensor08.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9694112o2sensor09.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5019152o2sensor10.jpg

Have you thought of obtaining an exhaust manifold from a junkyard? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster

[fozz89]

replying to Arlen Holder, fozz89 wrote:
You could try and tap. (cant see your pictures BTW) It depends on how much
material is missing from the original threads. I dont know my way around Jap
cars too well but usually with the right equipment you can just flash the PCM
and make emissions BS go away permanently (along with your catalytic
converter) More HPs, Better mileage, more crying liberals.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...m-1171791-.htm

[Bob F]

On 8/1/2018 11:44 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
On 1 Aug 2018 23:30:57 GMT, Steve W. wrote:

Same threads as a spark plug. The easy repair is a plug rethread kit. It
has an oversized insert with a self guiding fluted cutter/tap
combination. Then you trim the threads on an insert so they don't block
the sensor tip. Screw it into place and screw in the sensor. About the
third time you drive the car that insert will become a permanent part of
the manifold.

Very common repair, done all the time.

Thanks for confirming it's the same threads as a spark plug, which, at the
moment, seem to be 18x1.5 for them.

Googling, it seems cast iron isn't easy to weld, and that the plug rethread
might work, but, the heat cycling has likely hardened the bung nut, such
that it's a LOT harder (some say) to deal with than a spark plug thread
which is typically in aluminum engine blocks (they say).

Searching for this "plug rethread kit", is this the $62 kit you speak of?
https://www.amazon.com/Thread-Kits-1.../dp/B0025PQITU


That looks just like a helicoil set.

[rbowman]

On 08/01/2018 11:39 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
On 1 Aug 2018 22:26:00 GMT, rbowman wrote:

Back to your friendly Loctite dealer for the Form-A-Thread kit? Trip to
a junkyard for a new manifold if replacing it isn't too painful? Helicoils?

Seems to me the choices are...
a. New or used manifold (if it's not too hard to replace)
b. Drill it out and helicoil it (nothing to lose really)
c. Clean it up with a tap (I don't have the tap, which won't be cheap)
d. Shove it in there with epoxy (I hate that idea so I don't want to)


The helicoil route won't be cheap either. The epoxy route is redneck
engineering at its finest but this is a 14 year old beater, right?

As an aside, general purpose epoxy isn't a good idea for an exhaust
manifold.

https://www.jbweld.com/products/highheat-epoxy-putty

[trader_4]

On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 8:14:06 AM UTC-4, fozz89 wrote:
replying to Arlen Holder, fozz89 wrote:
You could try and tap. (cant see your pictures BTW) It depends on how much
material is missing from the original threads. I dont know my way around Jap
cars too well but usually with the right equipment you can just flash the PCM
and make emissions BS go away permanently (along with your catalytic
converter) More HPs, Better mileage, more crying liberals.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...m-1171791-.htm

I'm a conservative and I don't think it's a good idea to modify cars
so they pollute either. Amazing that someone could turn a simple
repair into that nonsense. Also, with the emissions BS going away
permanently, I wouldn't be surprised to see it have lower mileage too,
because the computer winds up running it open loop, guessing at what's
going on, instead of running it closed loop.

[rbowman]

On 08/02/2018 12:18 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Napa seems to sell a thread chaser for spark plugs, if it's the same thread
as spark plugs...
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER730

Might work if the threads just need to be cleaned up. There are quite a
few kits for stripped out oil drain plugs. The problem is the cheap ones
are just a slightly oversized tap with a selection of oversized plugs.
The kits that are more like helicoils are expensive.

This bung might be able to be welded on by a shop if the threads are right:
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...plug-kit-3735/

If the manifold is cast iron, welding can be tricky. Brazing may be
better. A good shop will know the best approach.

[Arlen Holder]

On 2 Aug 2018 06:59:23 GMT, trader_4 wrote:

I'm a conservative and I don't think it's a good idea to modify cars
so they pollute either. Amazing that someone could turn a simple
repair into that nonsense. Also, with the emissions BS going away
permanently, I wouldn't be surprised to see it have lower mileage too,
because the computer winds up running it open loop, guessing at what's
going on, instead of running it closed loop.

There's a reason I didn't respond to that suggestion of removing emissions.
There is absolutely zero chance we are going to mess with the emissions.
Zero.

It's going to be street legal smogable or we won't do it.

[Scott Dorsey]

Arlen Holder wrote:
On 1 Aug 2018 21:41:29 GMT, Bob F wrote:

I'm no expert on this particular situation, but perhaps a helicoil would
solve it easily.

I guess it can't hurt.
I can contact Denso to figure out the thread pitch for their O2 sensors.

You have it out, measure the pitch.
The helicoil is probably the easiest solution and I am generally a fan of
the things.

I was thinking of cleaning up the threads, but they look really bad.
How on earth can ANYONE do that to a bunch of threads?

What did they do?

They tried to remove a stuck oxygen sensor cold, maybe without even using
a proper penetrating oil, and they just put force on it until it deformed
and eventually tore itself out.

It's not even hard to get to ... it's right there ... in front.

Are you absolutely sure it's the problem also?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Arlen Holder]

On 2 Aug 2018 07:10:52 GMT, Scott Dorsey wrote:

You have it out, measure the pitch.
From research since yesterday, all oxygen sensors seem to be M18x1.5 so I'm
clear on that.

The helicoil is probably the easiest solution and I am generally a fan of
the things.

Thanks. I think my current plan is:
a. Pick up a thread chaser & try that
b. If that can'd be found, consider a junkyard exhaust manifold
c. If that fails, consider a new one
d. If that's too pricey, consider a helicoil kit (but they're pricey too)
e. Maybe even consider drilling and then inserting a threaded bung

They tried to remove a stuck oxygen sensor cold, maybe without even using
a proper penetrating oil, and they just put force on it until it deformed
and eventually tore itself out.

Jesus. Who would do that. I have never stripped a thread coming out!
(I've stripped threads going in, but never coming out.)

Are you absolutely sure it's the problem also?

It is now.

[Steve W.[_4_]]

Arlen Holder wrote:
On 1 Aug 2018 23:30:57 GMT, Steve W. wrote:

Same threads as a spark plug. The easy repair is a plug rethread kit. It
has an oversized insert with a self guiding fluted cutter/tap
combination. Then you trim the threads on an insert so they don't block
the sensor tip. Screw it into place and screw in the sensor. About the
third time you drive the car that insert will become a permanent part of
the manifold.

Very common repair, done all the time.

Thanks for confirming it's the same threads as a spark plug, which, at the
moment, seem to be 18x1.5 for them.

Googling, it seems cast iron isn't easy to weld, and that the plug rethread
might work, but, the heat cycling has likely hardened the bung nut, such
that it's a LOT harder (some say) to deal with than a spark plug thread
which is typically in aluminum engine blocks (they say).

Searching for this "plug rethread kit", is this the $62 kit you speak of?
https://www.amazon.com/Thread-Kits-1.../dp/B0025PQITU

Plug threads are M18 x 1.5 or M14 x 1.25 on most automobiles.
The M18 are the older plugs and O2 sensors and the M14 are the common
peanut plugs used these days.

Heat cycling will have made the iron harder to work with but the tools
used are designed to handle that.

That kit would work but I like using a solid insert myself, they hold up
better. I use timesert myself.

If you check with many of the chain parts stores they may have a thread
repair kit as a "loaner tool". You "rent" the tool use it, return it in
good shape and get your money back. You pay for the insert(s) you use.
A lot cheaper than buying the kit for a one time repair.



--
Steve W.

[trader_4]

On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 10:55:23 AM UTC-4, Arlen Holder wrote:
On 2 Aug 2018 07:10:52 GMT, Scott Dorsey wrote:

You have it out, measure the pitch.
From research since yesterday, all oxygen sensors seem to be M18x1.5 so I'm
clear on that.

The helicoil is probably the easiest solution and I am generally a fan of
the things.

Thanks. I think my current plan is:
a. Pick up a thread chaser & try that
b. If that can'd be found, consider a junkyard exhaust manifold

I would not be too keen on that. To swap it you have more nuts,
studs, bolts to screw around with and more potential for something
else to snap, strip, refuse to come off, etc.




c. If that fails, consider a new one
d. If that's too pricey, consider a helicoil kit (but they're pricey too)
e. Maybe even consider drilling and then inserting a threaded bung

They tried to remove a stuck oxygen sensor cold, maybe without even using
a proper penetrating oil, and they just put force on it until it deformed
and eventually tore itself out.

Jesus. Who would do that. I have never stripped a thread coming out!
(I've stripped threads going in, but never coming out.)

Are you absolutely sure it's the problem also?

It is now.

[Clare Snyder]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 03:31:58 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

Car is just bought by a kid just learning to drive (he's 16).
2004 Mitsubishi Lancer ES

Neighbors asked me to teach him how to replace the oxygen sensor (due to
emissions code).

The threads were stripped and "filled" with some kind of hardened "metal
paste".

The new part is a Denso 234-4739 (marked 485000-4060, 07U05)
The old part is a Denso (marked 234000, 8643, 07E23)

What would you suggest?
- Tap the threads? (22mm hex nut)
- New exhaust manifold?

http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3234632o2sensor01.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8064061o2sensor02.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6399144o2sensor03.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1574232o2sensor04.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9418974o2sensor05.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4183674o2sensor06.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5856176o2sensor07.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3486734o2sensor08.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9694112o2sensor09.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5019152o2sensor10.jpg


First of all, it does NOT appear the threads in the manifold are
stripped or damaged - but some ham-fist crossthreaded the sensor,
stripping the threads off of it, then tried to "glue" it back in.

Get a tap to fit the threads and chace all the crap out of the
threads. BE CAREFULL to get it in SQUARE and not to recut the threads
in the manifold. After chasing out the threads you should have, if
not a full thread, at least enough thread to hold the new sensor
firmly in place.

If, by some chance you find the thead IS too badly damaged, now is the
time to find out how heli-coils or Speed-serts work. These are thread
repair devices that involve retapping the hole to a larger size with a
specialized tap, then installing an insert into the hole to restore
the thread to the original size and form.

It's a handy process to learn. - but requires some rather pricey
tools that you may never need to use again - - - so would likely be
"smarter" to have an expert (read that as someone who has the required
tools and has done it before) do the job for you.

The tap required to chase out the thread will be metric - usually an
18mm spark plug tap. (or thread chaser)

[trader_4]

On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 4:34:33 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 03:31:58 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

Car is just bought by a kid just learning to drive (he's 16).
2004 Mitsubishi Lancer ES

Neighbors asked me to teach him how to replace the oxygen sensor (due to
emissions code).

The threads were stripped and "filled" with some kind of hardened "metal
paste".

The new part is a Denso 234-4739 (marked 485000-4060, 07U05)
The old part is a Denso (marked 234000, 8643, 07E23)

What would you suggest?
- Tap the threads? (22mm hex nut)
- New exhaust manifold?

http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3234632o2sensor01.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8064061o2sensor02.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6399144o2sensor03.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1574232o2sensor04.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9418974o2sensor05.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4183674o2sensor06.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5856176o2sensor07.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3486734o2sensor08.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9694112o2sensor09.jpg
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5019152o2sensor10.jpg


First of all, it does NOT appear the threads in the manifold are
stripped or damaged - but some ham-fist crossthreaded the sensor,
stripping the threads off of it, then tried to "glue" it back in.

Get a tap to fit the threads and chace all the crap out of the
threads. BE CAREFULL to get it in SQUARE and not to recut the threads
in the manifold. After chasing out the threads you should have, if
not a full thread, at least enough thread to hold the new sensor
firmly in place.

If, by some chance you find the thead IS too badly damaged, now is the
time to find out how heli-coils or Speed-serts work. These are thread
repair devices that involve retapping the hole to a larger size with a
specialized tap, then installing an insert into the hole to restore
the thread to the original size and form.

It's a handy process to learn. - but requires some rather pricey
tools that you may never need to use again - - - so would likely be
"smarter" to have an expert (read that as someone who has the required
tools and has done it before) do the job for you.

The tap required to chase out the thread will be metric - usually an
18mm spark plug tap. (or thread chaser)

I wonder if Advance Auto lends the tools out. They lend lots of tools, no charge. I think Auto Zone might too.

[Clare Snyder]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 14:55:20 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On 2 Aug 2018 07:10:52 GMT, Scott Dorsey wrote:

You have it out, measure the pitch.
From research since yesterday, all oxygen sensors seem to be M18x1.5 so I'm
clear on that.

The helicoil is probably the easiest solution and I am generally a fan of
the things.

Thanks. I think my current plan is:
a. Pick up a thread chaser & try that

Defionietly the first step - and extremely likely to work
b. If that can'd be found, consider a junkyard exhaust manifold

Likely lots of Mitso-****ty manifolds in ther scrap heap - but
possibly with the same problem -----
c. If that fails, consider a new one

Throwing cubic dollars at the problem???
d. If that's too pricey, consider a helicoil kit (but they're pricey too)

Not if you get someone who has the tools do the job for you. Less
than $50, almost guaranteed
e. Maybe even consider drilling and then inserting a threaded bung

Basically a "timesert" - More expensive tooling

They tried to remove a stuck oxygen sensor cold, maybe without even using
a proper penetrating oil, and they just put force on it until it deformed
and eventually tore itself out.

Jesus. Who would do that. I have never stripped a thread coming out!
(I've stripped threads going in, but never coming out.)


You haven't removed many O2 sensors - - -
Or Ford Triton spark plugs - - - - - - - - - -

Are you absolutely sure it's the problem also?

With no good ground through the repair paste, good chance the sensor
would not work - and at this point there is NO OPTION - the sensor is
FUBAR

It is now.

[Clare Snyder]

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 23:26:00 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 08/01/2018 09:31 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
What would you suggest?
- Tap the threads? (22mm hex nut)
- New exhaust manifold?

Back to your friendly Loctite dealer for the Form-A-Thread kit? Trip to
a junkyard for a new manifold if replacing it isn't too painful? Helicoils?
First step is clean out the existing threads - do NOT use a form-a
thread type product - needs to withstand high temperature AND be
electrically conductive. (some sensors don't need the ground, but many
do)

[Clare Snyder]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 05:39:22 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On 1 Aug 2018 22:26:00 GMT, rbowman wrote:

Back to your friendly Loctite dealer for the Form-A-Thread kit? Trip to
a junkyard for a new manifold if replacing it isn't too painful? Helicoils?

Seems to me the choices are...
a. New or used manifold (if it's not too hard to replace)
b. Drill it out and helicoil it (nothing to lose really)
c. Clean it up with a tap (I don't have the tap, which won't be cheap)

It's a spark plug thread. I bougrt a thread chaser that does 14 and
18mm threads for under $10 Canadian.

Better yet, pick up an 18mm X 1.5 tap from a local tool supplier -
Hanson (Irwin) 2459 is about $12.95 List -

About $36 from Fastenall

Even hOME dESPOT CAN GET IT FOR YOU - PART NUMBER dwtb18x1.5 - $21.14
d. Shove it in there with epoxy (I hate that idea so I don't want to)

Don't even THINK about it!!!

[Clare Snyder]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 06:18:36 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On 2 Aug 2018 05:39:22 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

b. Drill it out and helicoil it (nothing to lose really)

Googling, I'm not yet sure a helicoil will work on a through hole.

Why not? Use them all the time - spark plug holes are "through holes"
and THE most common use for Heli-Coils - bar none.

I think all lambda sensors are 18x1.5 (I'm not sure, but people said that
on the net). Some say it's the same thread as for spark plugs.


It is


If it's the same as for spark plugs, this might work, maybe?
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...2002/5014964-P

You need to get the manifold threaded to put the anti-fouler in - and
it takes the sensor out of the "dragon's breath" - not recommended

Napa seems to sell a thread chaser for spark plugs, if it's the same thread
as spark plugs...
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER730

The chaser MAY do the job, but a real tap will work better.

This bung might be able to be welded on by a shop if the threads are right:
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...plug-kit-3735/

Welding to cast is NOT a real simple weld job

The manifold is almost five hundred bucks
https://www.carid.com/eastern-cataly...46&url=4700416

Like I said before - throwing "cubic dollars" at the problem

[Terry Coombs[_2_]]

On 8/2/2018 1:44 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
On 1 Aug 2018 23:30:57 GMT, Steve W. wrote:

Same threads as a spark plug. The easy repair is a plug rethread kit. It
has an oversized insert with a self guiding fluted cutter/tap
combination. Then you trim the threads on an insert so they don't block
the sensor tip. Screw it into place and screw in the sensor. About the
third time you drive the car that insert will become a permanent part of
the manifold.

Very common repair, done all the time.
Thanks for confirming it's the same threads as a spark plug, which, at the
moment, seem to be 18x1.5 for them.

Googling, it seems cast iron isn't easy to weld, and that the plug rethread
might work, but, the heat cycling has likely hardened the bung nut, such
that it's a LOT harder (some say) to deal with than a spark plug thread
which is typically in aluminum engine blocks (they say).

Searching for this "plug rethread kit", is this the $62 kit you speak of?
https://www.amazon.com/Thread-Kits-1.../dp/B0025PQITU

Â**NO*!! That kit uses standard helicoil inserts , which are fine if
you're using spark plugs that use a crush washer to seal .Â* What you
want is similar to one I have and have used , mine is a NAPA auto parts
#770-3223 "Sav-A-Thread" kitÂ* - it's for 14 mm plugs but you need the
one for 18mm plugs . For the heat cycle hardened threaded bung you need
to heat it red hot with a torch and let it cool slowly - even if (and it
has) the steel has absorbed carbon from the exhaust gasses the slow cool
will anneal the metal (will help a great deal if the manifold is hot too
....) . If you can cut it with a file , this kit will work . One
suggestion - drill the hole out enough to clean up the old threads plus
a bit , it makes the ream/tap operation much easier . This kit includes
a punch that upsets the top edge of the insert (solid metal insert)
knurling into the threads to keep it from backing out . This kit is made
by helicoil , you may be able to find it at another retailer - I bought
another from O'Reilly Auto Parts because this one was "lost" in the move
when I left Memphis for rural Arkansas .Â* I've used these kits twice ,
in 2 different vehicles with excellent results . Both were "hemi" type
OHC motors with the spark plug straight down the center of the valve
covers . Both required machining guide bushings to be sure I got the
hole straight (I have a machine shop , it's a "hobby") and both have run
for many thousands of miles trouble-free . Good luck !

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety .
Get off my lawn !

[Terry Coombs[_2_]]

On 8/2/2018 9:06 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/02/2018 12:18 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Napa seems to sell a thread chaser for spark plugs, if it's the same
thread
as spark plugs...
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER730

Might work if the threads just need to be cleaned up. There are quite
a few kits for stripped out oil drain plugs. The problem is the cheap
ones are just a slightly oversized tap with a selection of oversized
plugs. The kits that are more like helicoils are expensive.

This bung might be able to be welded on by a shop if the threads are
right:
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...plug-kit-3735/


If the manifold is cast iron, welding can be tricky. Brazing may be
better. A good shop will know the best approach.

* If it's new enough to have O2 sensors , chances are pretty good the
manifold is steel tube .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety .
Get off my lawn !

[Clare Snyder]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 18:35:22 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 8/2/2018 9:06 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/02/2018 12:18 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Napa seems to sell a thread chaser for spark plugs, if it's the same
thread
as spark plugs...
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER730

Might work if the threads just need to be cleaned up. There are quite
a few kits for stripped out oil drain plugs. The problem is the cheap
ones are just a slightly oversized tap with a selection of oversized
plugs. The kits that are more like helicoils are expensive.

This bung might be able to be welded on by a shop if the threads are
right:
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...plug-kit-3735/


If the manifold is cast iron, welding can be tricky. Brazing may be
better. A good shop will know the best approach.

* If it's new enough to have O2 sensors , chances are pretty good the
manifold is steel tube .
It's not. Look at the pictures. It's high nickel cast.

[Terry Coombs[_2_]]

On 8/2/2018 7:57 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 18:35:22 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 8/2/2018 9:06 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/02/2018 12:18 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Napa seems to sell a thread chaser for spark plugs, if it's the same
thread
as spark plugs...
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER730
Might work if the threads just need to be cleaned up. There are quite
a few kits for stripped out oil drain plugs. The problem is the cheap
ones are just a slightly oversized tap with a selection of oversized
plugs. The kits that are more like helicoils are expensive.

This bung might be able to be welded on by a shop if the threads are
right:
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...plug-kit-3735/

If the manifold is cast iron, welding can be tricky. Brazing may be
better. A good shop will know the best approach.

Â* If it's new enough to have O2 sensors , chances are pretty good the
manifold is steel tube .
It's not. Look at the pictures. It's high nickel cast.

Â* Are you sure Clare ? In the second photo of his original post those
sure look like weld beads on the sides of the runner tubes . Maybe a
formed plate/sheet metal unit ? I hadn't looked at the photos ... I do
see that there is a crush washer to seal , so the helicoil kit he asked
about will work . I prefer the solid insert anyway .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety .
Get off my lawn !

[Arlen Holder]

On 2 Aug 2018 13:46:57 GMT, Clare Snyder wrote:

a. Pick up a thread chaser & try that

Defionietly the first step - and extremely likely to work

Hi Clare,
Your advice has always been spot on!

At O'Reillys (my closest auto parts store), they only had the 14mmx1.25
spark plug chaser which is too small.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6043628o2sensor11.jpg

But at Autozone and Napa, they had what appears to be the right-sized
chaser labeled as an "oxygen sensor" chaser at M18x1.5 threads:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8522268o2sensor12.jpg

So I will try that later on today when the neighbor is home from work and
when the kid is there as I insist that he work with me and not just use me
as a slave (I want him to learn to be able to do things on his own).

(I already made him change a tire and mount and balance it with me, where I
was shocked at how utterly EASY a 14-inch tire is to mount compared to the
SUV tires!).

b. If that can'd be found, consider a junkyard exhaust manifold

Likely lots of Mitso-****ty manifolds in ther scrap heap - but
possibly with the same problem -----

O'Reilly's quoted 800 and change for a new exhaust manifold where the
problem is that the catalytic converter is integral with it, so, I think a
junkyard is iffy since a junkyard cat may be problematic, don't you think?

c. If that fails, consider a new one

Throwing cubic dollars at the problem???

The kid has to pay for all the parts (I'm paying for the tools), where he
doesn't have that kind of money - but if the car is to be repaired, it's
one of the options.

d. If that's too pricey, consider a helicoil kit (but they're pricey too)

Not if you get someone who has the tools do the job for you. Less
than $50, almost guaranteed.

Luckily, a friend whose kid can weld said he's help if needed, so I can
remove the exhaust manifold, if necessary, and we'll try tack welding on a
bung.

e. Maybe even consider drilling and then inserting a threaded bung
Basically a "timesert" - More expensive tooling

I don't weld - but from what I read, you can't really "weld" cast iron
(which I assume the exhaust manifold to be) but it could be steel for all I
know (how can I tell? It's a 2004).

The bung itself is mild steel (apparently) which has been perhaps heat
treated by a billion cycles in the engine into being hardened steel.

So what I've read is maybe we can drill out the old heat-hardened steel and
then tack weld in a new mild-steal bung or put in the timeserts/helicoils.

One problem, some say, with helicoils is that an oxygen sensor tip has to
be in the flow, so the threads can't project post the metal of the
manifold.

You haven't removed many O2 sensors - - -
Or Ford Triton spark plugs - - - - - - - - - -

I am VERY CAREFUL where I just did my bimmer, which has two upstream Bosch
lambda sensors, the back one of which you can't get your hand on, and they
came out perfectly and threaded in perfectly even though I couldn't even
get close to the rear one.

This Mitsubishi Lancer ES has the thing right in our face!
It couldn't get easier.
And yet, someone screwed it up. Sigh.

With no good ground through the repair paste, good chance the sensor
would not work - and at this point there is NO OPTION - the sensor is
FUBAR

Yup. The threads on the sensor are all chewed up. The paste is perhaps
epoxy or JB weld, but you're right. The electrical connection likely
sucked. Who on earth would do that? I can't believe it given how EASY this
sensor is compared to all the rest I did.

For example, I recently did the neighbor's Toyota upstream lambda sensor
and it was a piece of cake - it wasn't even threaded.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=799..._sensor_01.jpg

All it had was two 12mm nuts holding it on and you just pull it out!
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=610..._sensor_02.jpg

This Mitsubishi "should" have been a piece of cake, but I'll learn by
following your advice of using the chaser first, if there are enough
threads left.

If the chaser fails, should I try to buy a M18x1.5 tap to be "more
aggressive", or should I move on to the inserts?

[Arlen Holder]

On 2 Aug 2018 08:02:40 GMT, Steve W. wrote:

If you check with many of the chain parts stores they may have a thread
repair kit as a "loaner tool". You "rent" the tool use it, return it in
good shape and get your money back. You pay for the insert(s) you use.
A lot cheaper than buying the kit for a one time repair.

I went to O'Reilly's and Autozone today, where the loaner tap and die kit
at O'Reilly doesn't come close to the M18x1.5 needed here but they do sell
the M14x1.25 thread chaser for those smaller spark plugs:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6043628o2sensor11.jpg

I bought from Autozone this M18x1.5 thread chaser and will get the kid to
work with me in a couple of hours before nightfall and report back.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8522268o2sensor12.jpg

[Arlen Holder]

On 2 Aug 2018 08:17:08 GMT, trader_4 wrote:

I would not be too keen on that. To swap it you have more nuts,
studs, bolts to screw around with and more potential for something
else to snap, strip, refuse to come off, etc.

I understand that a used exhaust manifold is problematic.

Worse, it appears that the catalytic converter is integral with the exhaust
manifold on this vehicle, so, getting a "used" cat is problematic to start
with.

[Arlen Holder]

On 2 Aug 2018 18:22:58 GMT, Terry Coombs wrote:

* Are you sure Clare ? In the second photo of his original post those
sure look like weld beads on the sides of the runner tubes . Maybe a
formed plate/sheet metal unit ? I hadn't looked at the photos ... I do
see that there is a crush washer to seal , so the helicoil kit he asked
about will work . I prefer the solid insert anyway .

What should I take a picture of to help you identify if it's steel or cast?
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9421150o2sensor13.jpg

Here is the part at Mitsubishi (where the cat is integral with it):
https://www.mitsubishipartswarehouse.com/auto-parts/2004/mitsubishi/lancer/es-trim/2-0l-l4-gas-engine/exhaust-system-cat/exhaust-manifold-scat

It's the 2004 Lancer ES 2.0L engine where Autozone has these brands:
Walker
https://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/exhaust-manifold/walker-exhaust-manifold/461307_452518_0
Dorman
https://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/exhaust-manifold/dorman-exhaust-manifold/108344_540298_0
MagnaFlow
https://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/exhaust-manifold/magnaflow-exhaust-manifold/513806_943921_25137
https://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/exhaust-manifold/magnaflow-exhaust-manifold/435623_943944_25137

Carid has "Eco Carb":
https://www.carid.com/2004-mitsubish...er=1&sub-model[Liter][]=2.0L

Can you tell from those what it's made out of?
If you need a better picture, I'd be glad to snap it for you.

[Clare Snyder]

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 01:28:56 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

On 2 Aug 2018 13:46:57 GMT, Clare Snyder wrote:

a. Pick up a thread chaser & try that

Defionietly the first step - and extremely likely to work

Hi Clare,
Your advice has always been spot on!

At O'Reillys (my closest auto parts store), they only had the 14mmx1.25
spark plug chaser which is too small.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6043628o2sensor11.jpg

But at Autozone and Napa, they had what appears to be the right-sized
chaser labeled as an "oxygen sensor" chaser at M18x1.5 threads:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8522268o2sensor12.jpg

So I will try that later on today when the neighbor is home from work and
when the kid is there as I insist that he work with me and not just use me
as a slave (I want him to learn to be able to do things on his own).

(I already made him change a tire and mount and balance it with me, where I
was shocked at how utterly EASY a 14-inch tire is to mount compared to the
SUV tires!).

b. If that can'd be found, consider a junkyard exhaust manifold

Likely lots of Mitso-****ty manifolds in ther scrap heap - but
possibly with the same problem -----

O'Reilly's quoted 800 and change for a new exhaust manifold where the
problem is that the catalytic converter is integral with it, so, I think a
junkyard is iffy since a junkyard cat may be problematic, don't you think?

They are not even allowed to sell you a used converter - at least not
here.

c. If that fails, consider a new one

Throwing cubic dollars at the problem???

The kid has to pay for all the parts (I'm paying for the tools), where he
doesn't have that kind of money - but if the car is to be repaired, it's
one of the options.

d. If that's too pricey, consider a helicoil kit (but they're pricey too)

Not if you get someone who has the tools do the job for you. Less
than $50, almost guaranteed.

Luckily, a friend whose kid can weld said he's help if needed, so I can
remove the exhaust manifold, if necessary, and we'll try tack welding on a
bung.

e. Maybe even consider drilling and then inserting a threaded bung
Basically a "timesert" - More expensive tooling

I don't weld - but from what I read, you can't really "weld" cast iron
(which I assume the exhaust manifold to be) but it could be steel for all I
know (how can I tell? It's a 2004).

The bung itself is mild steel (apparently) which has been perhaps heat
treated by a billion cycles in the engine into being hardened steel.

So what I've read is maybe we can drill out the old heat-hardened steel and
then tack weld in a new mild-steal bung or put in the timeserts/helicoils.

One problem, some say, with helicoils is that an oxygen sensor tip has to
be in the flow, so the threads can't project post the metal of the
manifold.

You haven't removed many O2 sensors - - -
Or Ford Triton spark plugs - - - - - - - - - -

I am VERY CAREFUL where I just did my bimmer, which has two upstream Bosch
lambda sensors, the back one of which you can't get your hand on, and they
came out perfectly and threaded in perfectly even though I couldn't even
get close to the rear one.

This Mitsubishi Lancer ES has the thing right in our face!
It couldn't get easier.
And yet, someone screwed it up. Sigh.

With no good ground through the repair paste, good chance the sensor
would not work - and at this point there is NO OPTION - the sensor is
FUBAR

Yup. The threads on the sensor are all chewed up. The paste is perhaps
epoxy or JB weld, but you're right. The electrical connection likely
sucked. Who on earth would do that? I can't believe it given how EASY this
sensor is compared to all the rest I did.

For example, I recently did the neighbor's Toyota upstream lambda sensor
and it was a piece of cake - it wasn't even threaded.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=799..._sensor_01.jpg

All it had was two 12mm nuts holding it on and you just pull it out!
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=610..._sensor_02.jpg

This Mitsubishi "should" have been a piece of cake, but I'll learn by
following your advice of using the chaser first, if there are enough
threads left.

If the chaser fails, should I try to buy a M18x1.5 tap to be "more
aggressive", or should I move on to the inserts?

[Clare Snyder]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 20:22:58 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 8/2/2018 7:57 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 18:35:22 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 8/2/2018 9:06 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/02/2018 12:18 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
Napa seems to sell a thread chaser for spark plugs, if it's the same
thread
as spark plugs...
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER730
Might work if the threads just need to be cleaned up. There are quite
a few kits for stripped out oil drain plugs. The problem is the cheap
ones are just a slightly oversized tap with a selection of oversized
plugs. The kits that are more like helicoils are expensive.

This bung might be able to be welded on by a shop if the threads are
right:
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...plug-kit-3735/

If the manifold is cast iron, welding can be tricky. Brazing may be
better. A good shop will know the best approach.

* If it's new enough to have O2 sensors , chances are pretty good the
manifold is steel tube .
It's not. Look at the pictures. It's high nickel cast.

* Are you sure Clare ? In the second photo of his original post those
sure look like weld beads on the sides of the runner tubes . Maybe a
formed plate/sheet metal unit ? I hadn't looked at the photos ... I do
see that there is a crush washer to seal , so the helicoil kit he asked
about will work . I prefer the solid insert anyway .


I can't get back to the pictures - but you might be right. I was
looking more at the hole and threads. Those integrated cat manifolds
are NASTY things. On the Civic VX they were cast with the converter
induction welded to the casting. On my 3 liter durateck it's all
fabricated.

[Paul in Houston TX[_2_]]

Arlen Holder wrote:
On 2 Aug 2018 18:22:58 GMT, Terry Coombs wrote:

Are you sure Clare ? In the second photo of his original post those
sure look like weld beads on the sides of the runner tubes . Maybe a
formed plate/sheet metal unit ? I hadn't looked at the photos ... I do
see that there is a crush washer to seal , so the helicoil kit he asked
about will work . I prefer the solid insert anyway .

What should I take a picture of to help you identify if it's steel or cast?
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9421150o2sensor13.jpg

Here is the part at Mitsubishi (where the cat is integral with it):
https://www.mitsubishipartswarehouse.com/auto-parts/2004/mitsubishi/lancer/es-trim/2-0l-l4-gas-engine/exhaust-system-cat/exhaust-manifold-scat

It's the 2004 Lancer ES 2.0L engine where Autozone has these brands:
Walker
https://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/exhaust-manifold/walker-exhaust-manifold/461307_452518_0
Dorman
https://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/exhaust-manifold/dorman-exhaust-manifold/108344_540298_0
MagnaFlow
https://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/exhaust-manifold/magnaflow-exhaust-manifold/513806_943921_25137
https://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/exhaust-manifold/magnaflow-exhaust-manifold/435623_943944_25137

Carid has "Eco Carb":
https://www.carid.com/2004-mitsubish...er=1&sub-model[Liter][]=2.0L

Can you tell from those what it's made out of?
If you need a better picture, I'd be glad to snap it for you.

Cast iron went away for most cars a long time ago due to weight savings
needed to comply with gov't mandated fuel mileage requirements.
Take a look at the top pic on the carid.com url. That manifold is cast iron.
Notice how there are no welds. The pipe and the flange is one molded piece.

[rbowman]

On 08/02/2018 07:43 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
What should I take a picture of to help you identify if it's steel or cast?
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9421150o2sensor13.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFf_x97vcQ0

Sorting out the different alloys of steel is tricky working from the
spark color and patterns but steel versus cast iron is relatively easy.

[Arlen Holder]

On 2 Aug 2018 16:33:44 GMT, Terry Coombs wrote:

I bought
another from O'Reilly Auto Parts because this one was "lost" in the move
when I left Memphis for rural Arkansas .*

Thanks for that advice based on your experience, since I have zero
experience with these things.

I saw that kit at O'Reilly's which I photographed on their counter.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6043628o2sensor11.jpg

The sort of good news is that the thread chaser bottomed out entirely by
hand, without any strength required whatsoever, but the sort of bad news is
that it didn't clean up much as a result:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3885168o2sensor19.jpg

Still, at least that "jb weld" or "epoxy" or whatever it was, seems to be
cleaned out.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6998492o2sensor20.jpg

The thread chaser really didn't clean up the threads as much as it pushed
out the jb-weld-expoxy-whatever stuff from the valleys.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6373378o2sensor21.jpg