On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 5:46:38 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 10:02 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Going undiscovered for days is the most peculiar aspect to his death.
The writeup implies a connection between the cops looking into his
vehicle and the store employee checking their cctv. That may not be the
case, but I wonder how much longer is may have been if the cops hadn't
inquired.


Which is why I questioned the store's security/visitor policies earlier in this thread (or maybe
It was the other thread about Stromy's passing).

How come no one knew he was still on the roof when they closed? Someone gave him access
to the roof yet they didn't have his name even after his body was found?

Look at the staff of your typical retail store and you have the answer.
No one knows anything or cares.

Yeah, I don't see some big, unusual issue here. Similar probably happens
all the time, especially if it's a regular maintenance guy they are used
to showing up and servicing them.

I remember on one of those TV shows where they help stores prevent crime,
they sent a guy into a liquor store dressed as a service guy and he
rolled a whole refrigerated display case full of booze right out the
front door. He just told one of the employees he was there to fix a
bad unit.

On 8/25/2016 10:13 AM, bob_villa wrote:


If access to the roof was considered a "confined space", Mormy should have reported to a manager. That manager is responsible to check on him "regularly" according to OSHA regs.


A roof with only the sky above is not a confined space though. One of
the reasons it is covered by regulation is lack of oxygen from chemicals
in the confined space. Not much chance of it happening on a roof.

I've had roof acess in places I worked and there was no regulation, no
checking with anyone. Up the stairs and open the door.

Roofers have other regulations but they would probably not apply, not
that would they help since he did not fall off.

On 8/25/2016 10:48 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Confined or not, someone in management should have been involved. I doubt that the non-
management staff has the authority to grant access to non-public spaces in and around the
store. They may have the *ability* to give someone access I doubt that they have the
*authority*.

One of the early articles said he was "granted access to the roof".


Yeah, sure. I think you work for a largish corporation that may have
rules like that. Local stores not so much. IIRC, someone said Chris
has worked for this place in the past so he may have been known and thus
had full access.

He may have been working for the building owner, not the store itself.
That would exempt him from some store rules as he was not working for
them, just passing through. Store manager, the 18 yo high school part
timer has no policy to cover the situation and certainly has not had
training (or common sense and experience) to cover the situation. Chris
went up a back stair, the kid went out to wait on a customer and never
sees or cares what happened after that moment. Then the kid leaves at 5
and the next clerk locks up at the end of the night never knowing anyone
ever came there.

On 8/25/2016 11:22 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:


Reviewing my two browsers' history to URLs and following links therein
turns up nothing except what you have noted. I remember seeing that
'self-access' (a bad idea) and wondering to myself if that was even
legal, let alone something an insurance policy would allow.

Why not? Who was he working for? The store of the landlord?

Couple of years ago my grandson and a few of his friends worked on the
roof of a major chain store in town. They were doing snow removal and
were hired by the building owner, not the store. No regulations, no
insurance prohibitions.

On 8/25/2016 12:44 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 08:11:26 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Again, this is all just speculation on my part based on the limited
information that we have available. But, I suspect that his passing was
sudden and that he did not suffer in any way.

All of this is similar to closing the store with someone still in the restroom.

Regardless of whether they could have saved him or not, someone should have
been aware that a non-employee was still on the premises before closing the
store and leaving.

+1 Manager or Asst. Mgr. didn't do a walk-around before leaving.

How many Walgreen employees know how to operate a fire extinguisher?


-1 May have done a walk around. How many store closings include
walking the roof?

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 17:46:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 8/25/2016 10:02 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Going undiscovered for days is the most peculiar aspect to his death.
The writeup implies a connection between the cops looking into his
vehicle and the store employee checking their cctv. That may not be the
case, but I wonder how much longer is may have been if the cops hadn't
inquired.


Which is why I questioned the store's security/visitor policies earlier in this thread (or maybe
It was the other thread about Stromy's passing).

How come no one knew he was still on the roof when they closed? Someone gave him access
to the roof yet they didn't have his name even after his body was found?

Look at the staff of your typical retail store and you have the answer.
No one knows anything or cares.
The security is pretty lax if they didn't notice the roof hatch was
still open. You can only close and lock it from the inside. Generally
they are connected to the building alarm system as well, so whoever
closed down for the night should have realized something was wrong -
or is Wallgreens a 24 hour opperation now?? (which could explain a
lot)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 19:39:35 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 8/25/2016 12:44 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 08:11:26 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Again, this is all just speculation on my part based on the limited
information that we have available. But, I suspect that his passing was
sudden and that he did not suffer in any way.

All of this is similar to closing the store with someone still in the restroom.

Regardless of whether they could have saved him or not, someone should have
been aware that a non-employee was still on the premises before closing the
store and leaving.

+1 Manager or Asst. Mgr. didn't do a walk-around before leaving.

How many Walgreen employees know how to operate a fire extinguisher?


-1 May have done a walk around. How many store closings include
walking the roof?
Would be interesting to see the building. Virtually all dlat roof
buildings here use a "hatch" that can only be closed from inside to
prevent locking someone on the roof.

With the hatch unlocked anyone can get in by climbing onto the roof..
SOMEONE had to close the hatch.

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 6:09:01 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 10:13 AM, bob_villa wrote:


If access to the roof was considered a "confined space", Mormy should have reported to a manager. That manager is responsible to check on him "regularly" according to OSHA regs.


A roof with only the sky above is not a confined space though. One of
the reasons it is covered by regulation is lack of oxygen from chemicals
in the confined space. Not much chance of it happening on a roof.

I've had roof acess in places I worked and there was no regulation, no
checking with anyone. Up the stairs and open the door.

Roofers have other regulations but they would probably not apply, not
that would they help since he did not fall off.

It does meet criteria: "A confined space is a space large enough for a worker to enter, is not designed for "continuous employee occupancy," and has limited means for entry and exit".

https://ohsonline.com/Articles/2015/...-Standard.aspx

On 8/25/2016 8:41 PM, wrote:

The security is pretty lax if they didn't notice the roof hatch was
still open. You can only close and lock it from the inside. Generally
they are connected to the building alarm system as well, so whoever
closed down for the night should have realized something was wrong -
or is Wallgreens a 24 hour opperation now?? (which could explain a
lot)


Good point. Many Walgreens are 24 hours so no one would be setting
alarms.

On 8/25/2016 10:00 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 6:09:01 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 10:13 AM, bob_villa wrote:


If access to the roof was considered a "confined space", Mormy should have reported to a manager. That manager is responsible to check on him "regularly" according to OSHA regs.


A roof with only the sky above is not a confined space though. One of
the reasons it is covered by regulation is lack of oxygen from chemicals
in the confined space. Not much chance of it happening on a roof.

I've had roof acess in places I worked and there was no regulation, no
checking with anyone. Up the stairs and open the door.

Roofers have other regulations but they would probably not apply, not
that would they help since he did not fall off.

It does meet criteria: "A confined space is a space large enough for a worker to enter, is not designed for "continuous employee occupancy," and has limited means for entry and exit".

https://ohsonline.com/Articles/2015/...-Standard.aspx


No, you left out this part:
A permit-required confined space (PRCS) is a confined space with one or
more of the following characteristics:

Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere
Contains a material that has the potential for engulfing an entering
employee
Has an internal configuration such that an employee could be trapped or
asphyxiated by inwardly converging walls or by a downward-sloping floor
Contains any other recognized serious safety or health hazard5

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 20:48:10 -0400, wrote:

Would be interesting to see the building. Virtually all dlat roof
buildings here use a "hatch" that can only be closed from inside to
prevent locking someone on the roof.

With the hatch unlocked anyone can get in by climbing onto the roof..
SOMEONE had to close the hatch.

Here is the building:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Li...561319!6m1!1e1

I would think getting to the roof would be through the tower in front.
Though smack above the entrance is not a good location for a stairs.

Here is the roof:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Li...!4d-77.0561319

The rectangle next to the tower is wrongly placed to be a hatch. The square
in the lower right could be a hatch.

There are many packaged a/c on the roof. Workmen are going to need access
with tools. Ceilings are high in a large store like this. I just don't see
the architect expecting all workmen to climb a ladder and go through a
hatch.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 12:35:07 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 8:41 PM, wrote:

The security is pretty lax if they didn't notice the roof hatch was
still open. You can only close and lock it from the inside. Generally
they are connected to the building alarm system as well, so whoever
closed down for the night should have realized something was wrong -
or is Wallgreens a 24 hour opperation now?? (which could explain a
lot)


Good point. Many Walgreens are 24 hours so no one would be setting
alarms.

It's not a good point based on the simple fact that verifying the hours of operation
for this specific property is so easily done.

Hint: My statements related to "They should have checked for non-employees
before they left" are valid.

On 8/25/2016 2:57 PM, Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 13:04:48 -0700, "Colonel Edmund J. Burke" wrote:
On 8/6/2016 4:32 PM, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:
It's a desperate attempt for attention and he hopes to start a
fight. The groups I see him blabbering on NO ONE pays him one
ounce of attention.

Folks, looks like we gots another "shrink" in the froup.
LOL


Speaking of death in the group, did Homeless Lisa
finally die of hypochondria?




Dunno wot happend to her, but I'm sure it's not good.

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 11:41:41 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 10:00 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 6:09:01 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 10:13 AM, bob_villa wrote:


If access to the roof was considered a "confined space", Mormy should have reported to a manager. That manager is responsible to check on him "regularly" according to OSHA regs.


A roof with only the sky above is not a confined space though. One of
the reasons it is covered by regulation is lack of oxygen from chemicals
in the confined space. Not much chance of it happening on a roof.

I've had roof acess in places I worked and there was no regulation, no
checking with anyone. Up the stairs and open the door.

Roofers have other regulations but they would probably not apply, not
that would they help since he did not fall off.

It does meet criteria: "A confined space is a space large enough for a worker to enter, is not designed for "continuous employee occupancy," and has limited means for entry and exit".

https://ohsonline.com/Articles/2015/...-Standard.aspx


No, you left out this part:
A permit-required confined space (PRCS) is a confined space with one or
more of the following characteristics:

Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere
Contains a material that has the potential for engulfing an entering
employee
Has an internal configuration such that an employee could be trapped or
asphyxiated by inwardly converging walls or by a downward-sloping floor
Contains any other recognized serious safety or health hazard5

I gave the broad definition...sorry you don't like it. NNTR

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 20:41:33 -0400, wrote:

The security is pretty lax if they didn't notice the roof hatch was
still open. You can only close and lock it from the inside. Generally
they are connected to the building alarm system as well, so whoever
closed down for the night should have realized something was wrong -
or is Wallgreens a 24 hour opperation now?? (which could explain a
lot)

This one is not. It is 8AM - 10PM seven days a week.

But as I argue elsewhere, I doubt there is a hatch, but a stairs leading to
the tower that is in the front corner of the store. This means there is a
door to a small room with the stairs near the front entrance.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

In article ,
says...



On 8/25/2016 2:57 PM, Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 13:04:48 -0700, "Colonel Edmund J. Burke" wrote:
On 8/6/2016 4:32 PM, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:
It's a desperate attempt for attention and he hopes to start a
fight. The groups I see him blabbering on NO ONE pays him one
ounce of attention.

Folks, looks like we gots another "shrink" in the froup.
LOL


Speaking of death in the group, did Homeless Lisa
finally die of hypochondria?




Dunno wot happend to her, but I'm sure it's not good.

Your empathy is overwhelming.

--

Checkmate, Royal Order of the DoW #1, and Official Ko0K Wrangler
AUK Hammer of Thor award, Feb. 2012 (Pre-Burnore)
Destroyer of the AUK Ko0k Vote (Post-Burnore)
Originator of the "Dance for me" (tm) lame
Copyright © 2016
all rights reserved

On 8/26/2016 8:08 AM, Checkmate, DoW #1 wrote:
In article ,
says...



On 8/25/2016 2:57 PM, Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 13:04:48 -0700, "Colonel Edmund J. Burke" wrote:
On 8/6/2016 4:32 PM, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:
It's a desperate attempt for attention and he hopes to start a
fight. The groups I see him blabbering on NO ONE pays him one
ounce of attention.

Folks, looks like we gots another "shrink" in the froup.
LOL


Speaking of death in the group, did Homeless Lisa
finally die of hypochondria?




Dunno wot happend to her, but I'm sure it's not good.

Your empathy is overwhelming.


Are you being smartassed with me again?

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 19:00:23 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote:

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 6:09:01 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 10:13 AM, bob_villa wrote:


If access to the roof was considered a "confined space", Mormy should have reported to a manager. That manager is responsible to check on him "regularly" according to OSHA regs.


A roof with only the sky above is not a confined space though. One of
the reasons it is covered by regulation is lack of oxygen from chemicals
in the confined space. Not much chance of it happening on a roof.

I've had roof acess in places I worked and there was no regulation, no
checking with anyone. Up the stairs and open the door.

Roofers have other regulations but they would probably not apply, not
that would they help since he did not fall off.

It does meet criteria: "A confined space is a space large enough for a worker to enter, is not designed for "continuous employee occupancy," and has limited means for entry and exit".

https://ohsonline.com/Articles/2015/...-Standard.aspx
The access location MAY meet the definition of confined space, but I
doubt a several thousand square foot open rooftop would.

From your own cite :

A permit-required confined space (PRCS) is a confined space with one
or more of the following characteristics:
Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere
Contains a material that has the potential for engulfing an entering
employee
Has an internal configuration such that an employee could be trapped
or asphyxiated by inwardly converging walls or by a downward-sloping
floor
Contains any other recognized serious safety or health hazard5
Which of the above 4 conditions does an open roof comply with???

On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 02:11:44 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 20:48:10 -0400, wrote:

Would be interesting to see the building. Virtually all dlat roof
buildings here use a "hatch" that can only be closed from inside to
prevent locking someone on the roof.

With the hatch unlocked anyone can get in by climbing onto the roof..
SOMEONE had to close the hatch.

Here is the building:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Li...561319!6m1!1e1

I would think getting to the roof would be through the tower in front.
Though smack above the entrance is not a good location for a stairs.

Here is the roof:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Li...!4d-77.0561319

The rectangle next to the tower is wrongly placed to be a hatch. The square
in the lower right could be a hatch.

There are many packaged a/c on the roof. Workmen are going to need access
with tools. Ceilings are high in a large store like this. I just don't see
the architect expecting all workmen to climb a ladder and go through a
hatch.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
Take a look at it from the top. The "tower" is just a facade, and
the roof access port is clearly visible in the south east corner of
the roof (opposite corner from the tower, along the eastt wall, about
15 feet? from the south east corner, just south of the green tree.

It is consistent with the view of other buildings I AM familiar with.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 04:55:58 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 12:35:07 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 8:41 PM, wrote:

The security is pretty lax if they didn't notice the roof hatch was
still open. You can only close and lock it from the inside. Generally
they are connected to the building alarm system as well, so whoever
closed down for the night should have realized something was wrong -
or is Wallgreens a 24 hour opperation now?? (which could explain a
lot)


Good point. Many Walgreens are 24 hours so no one would be setting
alarms.

It's not a good point based on the simple fact that verifying the hours of operation
for this specific property is so easily done.

Hint: My statements related to "They should have checked for non-employees
before they left" are valid.
The hours listed are 8am to 10pm - so the alarm would have to have
been set. Someone likely just hollered "anyone up there" and pulled
the hatch down and locked it - Ass-U-ming whoever was up there just
forgot to latch it when he left......

On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 06:35:42 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote:

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 11:41:41 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 10:00 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 6:09:01 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 10:13 AM, bob_villa wrote:


If access to the roof was considered a "confined space", Mormy should have reported to a manager. That manager is responsible to check on him "regularly" according to OSHA regs.


A roof with only the sky above is not a confined space though. One of
the reasons it is covered by regulation is lack of oxygen from chemicals
in the confined space. Not much chance of it happening on a roof.

I've had roof acess in places I worked and there was no regulation, no
checking with anyone. Up the stairs and open the door.

Roofers have other regulations but they would probably not apply, not
that would they help since he did not fall off.

It does meet criteria: "A confined space is a space large enough for a worker to enter, is not designed for "continuous employee occupancy," and has limited means for entry and exit".

https://ohsonline.com/Articles/2015/...-Standard.aspx


No, you left out this part:
A permit-required confined space (PRCS) is a confined space with one or
more of the following characteristics:

Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere
Contains a material that has the potential for engulfing an entering
employee
Has an internal configuration such that an employee could be trapped or
asphyxiated by inwardly converging walls or by a downward-sloping floor
Contains any other recognized serious safety or health hazard5

I gave the broad definition...sorry you don't like it. NNTR
Doesn't fit the requirements - sorry YOU don't like it - - -

On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 02:11:44 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 20:48:10 -0400, wrote:

Would be interesting to see the building. Virtually all dlat roof
buildings here use a "hatch" that can only be closed from inside to
prevent locking someone on the roof.

With the hatch unlocked anyone can get in by climbing onto the roof..
SOMEONE had to close the hatch.

Here is the building:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Li...561319!6m1!1e1

I would think getting to the roof would be through the tower in front.
Though smack above the entrance is not a good location for a stairs.

Here is the roof:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Li...!4d-77.0561319

The rectangle next to the tower is wrongly placed to be a hatch. The square
in the lower right could be a hatch.

There are many packaged a/c on the roof. Workmen are going to need access
with tools. Ceilings are high in a large store like this. I just don't see
the architect expecting all workmen to climb a ladder and go through a
hatch.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
Sorry guys, a I was looking at the Rite Aid buiking across the
corner. Still the south east corner of the building - about 4 feet
from the south wall, and 12 feet from the east - about a 3 foot square
white hatch., about centered between 2 rooftop AC units but to the
south about 6 feet.

formulated on Friday :
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 19:00:23 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote:

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 6:09:01 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 10:13 AM, bob_villa wrote:


If access to the roof was considered a "confined space", Mormy should have
reported to a manager. That manager is responsible to check on him
"regularly" according to OSHA regs.


A roof with only the sky above is not a confined space though. One of
the reasons it is covered by regulation is lack of oxygen from chemicals
in the confined space. Not much chance of it happening on a roof.

I've had roof acess in places I worked and there was no regulation, no
checking with anyone. Up the stairs and open the door.

Roofers have other regulations but they would probably not apply, not
that would they help since he did not fall off.

It does meet criteria: "A confined space is a space large enough for a
worker to enter, is not designed for "continuous employee occupancy," and
has limited means for entry and exit".

https://ohsonline.com/Articles/2015/...-Standard.aspx
The access location MAY meet the definition of confined space, but I
doubt a several thousand square foot open rooftop would.

From your own cite :

A permit-required confined space (PRCS) is a confined space with one
or more of the following characteristics:
Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere
Contains a material that has the potential for engulfing an entering
employee
Has an internal configuration such that an employee could be trapped
or asphyxiated by inwardly converging walls or by a downward-sloping
floor
Contains any other recognized serious safety or health hazard5
Which of the above 4 conditions does an open roof comply with???

Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere.

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 1:22:46 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
formulated on Friday :
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 19:00:23 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote:

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 6:09:01 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 10:13 AM, bob_villa wrote:


If access to the roof was considered a "confined space", Mormy should have
reported to a manager. That manager is responsible to check on him
"regularly" according to OSHA regs.


A roof with only the sky above is not a confined space though. One of
the reasons it is covered by regulation is lack of oxygen from chemicals
in the confined space. Not much chance of it happening on a roof.

I've had roof acess in places I worked and there was no regulation, no
checking with anyone. Up the stairs and open the door.

Roofers have other regulations but they would probably not apply, not
that would they help since he did not fall off.

It does meet criteria: "A confined space is a space large enough for a
worker to enter, is not designed for "continuous employee occupancy," and
has limited means for entry and exit".

https://ohsonline.com/Articles/2015/...-Standard.aspx
The access location MAY meet the definition of confined space, but I
doubt a several thousand square foot open rooftop would.

From your own cite :

A permit-required confined space (PRCS) is a confined space with one
or more of the following characteristics:
Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere
Contains a material that has the potential for engulfing an entering
employee
Has an internal configuration such that an employee could be trapped
or asphyxiated by inwardly converging walls or by a downward-sloping
floor
Contains any other recognized serious safety or health hazard5
Which of the above 4 conditions does an open roof comply with???

Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere.

If an "open roof" can *contain* a hazardous atmosphere, then the entire
planet is pretty much a confined space.

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 12:47:59 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 1:22:46 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
formulated on Friday :
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 19:00:23 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote:

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 6:09:01 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 10:13 AM, bob_villa wrote:


If access to the roof was considered a "confined space", Mormy should have
reported to a manager. That manager is responsible to check on him
"regularly" according to OSHA regs.


A roof with only the sky above is not a confined space though. One of
the reasons it is covered by regulation is lack of oxygen from chemicals
in the confined space. Not much chance of it happening on a roof.

I've had roof acess in places I worked and there was no regulation, no
checking with anyone. Up the stairs and open the door.

Roofers have other regulations but they would probably not apply, not
that would they help since he did not fall off.

It does meet criteria: "A confined space is a space large enough for a
worker to enter, is not designed for "continuous employee occupancy," and
has limited means for entry and exit".

https://ohsonline.com/Articles/2015/...-Standard.aspx
The access location MAY meet the definition of confined space, but I
doubt a several thousand square foot open rooftop would.

From your own cite :

A permit-required confined space (PRCS) is a confined space with one
or more of the following characteristics:
Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere
Contains a material that has the potential for engulfing an entering
employee
Has an internal configuration such that an employee could be trapped
or asphyxiated by inwardly converging walls or by a downward-sloping
floor
Contains any other recognized serious safety or health hazard5
Which of the above 4 conditions does an open roof comply with???

Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere.

If an "open roof" can *contain* a hazardous atmosphere, then the entire
planet is pretty much a confined space.

If trapped on the roof during a storm? Give it up...it "could" have that classification! Not that it did! An "on the job death over that period on time was no doubt, investigated. Whether OHSA or the sheriff's office.

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 1:55:59 PM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 12:47:59 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 1:22:46 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
formulated on Friday :
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 19:00:23 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote:

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 6:09:01 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 10:13 AM, bob_villa wrote:


If access to the roof was considered a "confined space", Mormy should have
reported to a manager. That manager is responsible to check on him
"regularly" according to OSHA regs.


A roof with only the sky above is not a confined space though. One of
the reasons it is covered by regulation is lack of oxygen from chemicals
in the confined space. Not much chance of it happening on a roof.

I've had roof acess in places I worked and there was no regulation, no
checking with anyone. Up the stairs and open the door.

Roofers have other regulations but they would probably not apply, not
that would they help since he did not fall off.

It does meet criteria: "A confined space is a space large enough for a
worker to enter, is not designed for "continuous employee occupancy," and
has limited means for entry and exit".

https://ohsonline.com/Articles/2015/...-Standard.aspx
The access location MAY meet the definition of confined space, but I
doubt a several thousand square foot open rooftop would.

From your own cite :

A permit-required confined space (PRCS) is a confined space with one
or more of the following characteristics:
Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere
Contains a material that has the potential for engulfing an entering
employee
Has an internal configuration such that an employee could be trapped
or asphyxiated by inwardly converging walls or by a downward-sloping
floor
Contains any other recognized serious safety or health hazard5
Which of the above 4 conditions does an open roof comply with???

Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere.

If an "open roof" can *contain* a hazardous atmosphere, then the entire
planet is pretty much a confined space.

If trapped on the roof during a storm? Give it up...it "could" have that classification! Not that it did! An "on the job death over that period on time was no doubt, investigated. Whether OHSA or the sheriff's office.

Is there a complete, intelligible sentence anywhere in that response?

In article ,
says...



On 8/26/2016 8:08 AM, Checkmate, DoW #1 wrote:
In article ,
says...



On 8/25/2016 2:57 PM, Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 13:04:48 -0700, "Colonel Edmund J. Burke" wrote:
On 8/6/2016 4:32 PM, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:
It's a desperate attempt for attention and he hopes to start a
fight. The groups I see him blabbering on NO ONE pays him one
ounce of attention.

Folks, looks like we gots another "shrink" in the froup.
LOL


Speaking of death in the group, did Homeless Lisa
finally die of hypochondria?




Dunno wot happend to her, but I'm sure it's not good.

Your empathy is overwhelming.


Are you being smartassed with me again?

If you have to ask...

--

Checkmate, Royal Order of the DoW #1, and Official Ko0K Wrangler
AUK Hammer of Thor award, Feb. 2012 (Pre-Burnore)
Destroyer of the AUK Ko0k Vote (Post-Burnore)
Originator of the "Dance for me" (tm) lame
Copyright © 2016
all rights reserved

My hypothesis:

A horny store clerk swiped some Viagra from the pharmacy and joined Stormy on the roof.
The two became amorous. The Viagra outlasted Stormy.

Rest in peace, Stormy. You da man!

On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 12:37:57 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 02:11:44 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

Here is the roof:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Li...!4d-77.0561319

Take a look at it from the top. The "tower" is just a facade,

I see a peaked rook on the tower. It sure looks like a tower to me and not
a facade. And it would also be a bulkhead.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 1:16:57 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 1:55:59 PM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 12:47:59 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 1:22:46 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
formulated on Friday :
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 19:00:23 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote:

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 6:09:01 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 10:13 AM, bob_villa wrote:


If access to the roof was considered a "confined space", Mormy should have
reported to a manager. That manager is responsible to check on him
"regularly" according to OSHA regs.


A roof with only the sky above is not a confined space though. One of
the reasons it is covered by regulation is lack of oxygen from chemicals
in the confined space. Not much chance of it happening on a roof.

I've had roof acess in places I worked and there was no regulation, no
checking with anyone. Up the stairs and open the door.

Roofers have other regulations but they would probably not apply, not
that would they help since he did not fall off.

It does meet criteria: "A confined space is a space large enough for a
worker to enter, is not designed for "continuous employee occupancy," and
has limited means for entry and exit".

https://ohsonline.com/Articles/2015/...-Standard.aspx
The access location MAY meet the definition of confined space, but I
doubt a several thousand square foot open rooftop would.

From your own cite :

A permit-required confined space (PRCS) is a confined space with one
or more of the following characteristics:
Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere
Contains a material that has the potential for engulfing an entering
employee
Has an internal configuration such that an employee could be trapped
or asphyxiated by inwardly converging walls or by a downward-sloping
floor
Contains any other recognized serious safety or health hazard5
Which of the above 4 conditions does an open roof comply with???

Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere.

If an "open roof" can *contain* a hazardous atmosphere, then the entire
planet is pretty much a confined space.

If trapped on the roof during a storm? Give it up...it "could" have that classification! Not that it did! An "on the job death over that period on time was no doubt, investigated. Whether OHSA or the sheriff's office.

Is there a complete, intelligible sentence anywhere in that response?

Sorry you can't handle the thought process. Best to you in your recovery...

On 8/26/2016 7:55 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 12:35:07 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 8:41 PM, wrote:

The security is pretty lax if they didn't notice the roof hatch was
still open. You can only close and lock it from the inside. Generally
they are connected to the building alarm system as well, so whoever
closed down for the night should have realized something was wrong -
or is Wallgreens a 24 hour opperation now?? (which could explain a
lot)


Good point. Many Walgreens are 24 hours so no one would be setting
alarms.

It's not a good point based on the simple fact that verifying the hours of operation
for this specific property is so easily done.

Hint: My statements related to "They should have checked for non-employees
before they left" are valid.


OK, they checked he back room and rest room. Before you leave your
house do you go up on the roof? At 10 PM? I doubt walking the roof is SOP.

This is an unusual happening. People on the roof is probably a one or
two day a year event that never happens on the late shift. I worked in
two places with interior access to the roof and no one ever checked when
we locked up.

On 8/26/2016 1:55 PM, bob_villa wrote:


An "on the job death over that period on time was no doubt, investigated. Whether OHSA or the sheriff's office.


Yes, and Stormy's employer will be fined. Hope he left his checkbook.

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 5:36:32 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/26/2016 7:55 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 12:35:07 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 8:41 PM, wrote:

The security is pretty lax if they didn't notice the roof hatch was
still open. You can only close and lock it from the inside. Generally
they are connected to the building alarm system as well, so whoever
closed down for the night should have realized something was wrong -
or is Wallgreens a 24 hour opperation now?? (which could explain a
lot)


Good point. Many Walgreens are 24 hours so no one would be setting
alarms.

It's not a good point based on the simple fact that verifying the hours of operation
for this specific property is so easily done.

Hint: My statements related to "They should have checked for non-employees
before they left" are valid.


OK, they checked he back room and rest room. Before you leave your
house do you go up on the roof? At 10 PM? I doubt walking the roof is SOP.

The only thing I was responding to was the "24 hour operation" comment. This
was not a 24 hour store. They key point of my "hint" was that they *left*.
It was a hint to indicate that all it would have taken was a quick internet
check to realize that the store closed at 10.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 10:47:54 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:

If an "open roof" can *contain* a hazardous atmosphere, then the entire
planet is pretty much a confined space.

It can get really hot. Hotter than OSHA rules allow.

Mike Duffy used his keyboard to write :
On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 10:47:54 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:

If an "open roof" can *contain* a hazardous atmosphere, then the entire
planet is pretty much a confined space.

It can get really hot. Hotter than OSHA rules allow.

If Beijing can have a "potentially" hazardous atmosphere enough for
many people to wear masks, and OSHA can call a pit with four foot tall
sides a "confined space" why can't a hot rooftop fit in that category.

Anyway, my first thought about the circumstances which possibly claimed
the life of Stormy have not been changed, definitely not a safe working
situation IMO. He possibly could have died under ideal working
conditions, heart attacks are like that, but to be left up there for
that long sure looks like some rules weren't being followed.

On 8/26/2016 7:48 PM, FromTheRafters wrote:

Anyway, my first thought about the circumstances which possibly claimed
the life of Stormy have not been changed, definitely not a safe working
situation IMO. He possibly could have died under ideal working
conditions, heart attacks are like that, but to be left up there for
that long sure looks like some rules weren't being followed.

What would those rules be? Who made the rules? Never be alone?

On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 17:36:23 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 8/26/2016 7:55 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 12:35:07 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/25/2016 8:41 PM, wrote:

The security is pretty lax if they didn't notice the roof hatch was
still open. You can only close and lock it from the inside. Generally
they are connected to the building alarm system as well, so whoever
closed down for the night should have realized something was wrong -
or is Wallgreens a 24 hour opperation now?? (which could explain a
lot)


Good point. Many Walgreens are 24 hours so no one would be setting
alarms.

It's not a good point based on the simple fact that verifying the hours of operation
for this specific property is so easily done.

Hint: My statements related to "They should have checked for non-employees
before they left" are valid.


OK, they checked he back room and rest room. Before you leave your
house do you go up on the roof? At 10 PM? I doubt walking the roof is SOP.

This is an unusual happening. People on the roof is probably a one or
two day a year event that never happens on the late shift. I worked in
two places with interior access to the roof and no one ever checked when
we locked up.
In every building I have worked in with rooftop access the alerm
would not set without the roof access being closed and latched from
the inside. About half a dozen different buildings. None could easily
be latched from outside.

On 8/26/2016 9:42 PM, wrote:


Hint: My statements related to "They should have checked for non-employees
before they left" are valid.


OK, they checked he back room and rest room. Before you leave your
house do you go up on the roof? At 10 PM? I doubt walking the roof is SOP.

This is an unusual happening. People on the roof is probably a one or
two day a year event that never happens on the late shift. I worked in
two places with interior access to the roof and no one ever checked when
we locked up.
In every building I have worked in with rooftop access the alerm
would not set without the roof access being closed and latched from
the inside. About half a dozen different buildings. None could easily
be latched from outside.


Your experience is different than mine. No alarm on them.

OTOH, even if it was, somebody could have closed it. Looked, saw nothing
at night, locked it up. Until we see a report, anything we say is just
speculation.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 22:08:47 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Until we see a report, anything we say is just
speculation.

Or someone tracks down his sister and calls her. For one, to let her know
that there are many here in this newsgroup that are sad to see him go, and
have been discussing about him for three weeks!

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 10:07:44 PM UTC-5, Don Wiss wrote:
On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 22:08:47 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Until we see a report, anything we say is just
speculation.

Or someone tracks down his sister and calls her. For one, to let her know
that there are many here in this newsgroup that are sad to see him go, and
have been discussing about him for three weeks!

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

The funeral home did not respond to my email. Just asking if there was any addition information they could give.