I just heard this on the radio today. Barak Obama has announced that his administration will be normalizing relations with Cuba, thereby ending trade sanctions against Cuba that have endured since 1959, or over 50 years.

In his announcement, Obama cited that no OTHER country in the world had partnered with the US in imposing trade sanctions against Cuba; the USA was the only one imposing their own trade sanctions on Cuba. And that the USA has had normal trade relations with China, another communist government, for well over 30 years now.

Apparantly, secret talks between American and Cuban officials have been going on for several months now, with many of those meetings taking place in Canada.

People should be advised that this change represents a tremendous potential windfall for Americans. Cuba can replace Mexico and China as a source for cheap labour in the manufacture of goods for the US market. Wages in Cuba are low, and they are located very much closer to the US mainland, and so US companies would not have to pay the higher shipping cost to ship finished products from China.

Also, in the 1940's and 1950's, Cuba was the American playground, just like Las Vegas is now. The beautiful beaches and climate that drew tourists to Cuba back then still exist today, and once hotels are built to cater to tourists, there's no reason to believe Americans (and Canadians and Europeans) won't be going back to Cuba as a vacation destination. Cuba's money is cheap, which means you can vacation like a king down there for less than the same vacation would cost you in Mexico or worse, Hawaii.

20 years from now, I expect Cuba will be a highly industrialized country whose factories produce inexpensive goods for the North American market, just like China does now, and who's climate attracts tourists from all over North America, just like Mexico does now.

Today might very well become an annual civic holiday in Cuba.

PS: Relations between US Presidents and Canadian Prime Ministers haven't always been smooth. One of our Canadian Prime Ministers, Pierre Elliiot Trudeau, got on Washington's "naughty list" when he personally befriended Fidel Castro and invited him to visit Canada. I don't know if Castro ever took Trudeau up on that offer or not, but Trudeau spoke very highly of Castro saying that he was using Cuba's economy to help the poor people of Cuba. And, in Cuba, pretty well everyone is poor, which is why Cuba can replace China as a manufacturing center.

On 12/17/2014 4:30 PM, wrote:


20 years from now, I expect Cuba will be a highly industrialized country
whose factories produce inexpensive goods for the North American market,
just like China does now, and who's climate attracts tourists from all
over North America, just like Mexico does now.



Dang!!!
Now we will have to share Cuba with all the Yanks again!!! We
Canadians have been enjoying Cuba's beaches and resorts for years.
They have some pretty nice hotels and resorts


I'd like to visit. Maybe bring back a '55 Chevy.

On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 17:00:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I'd like to visit. Maybe bring back a '55 Chevy.

Two door? What about a '53?

http://www.picturesandjokes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/illegal-immigrants.jpg

On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 17:00:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/17/2014 4:30 PM, wrote:


20 years from now, I expect Cuba will be a highly industrialized country
whose factories produce inexpensive goods for the North American market,
just like China does now, and who's climate attracts tourists from all
over North America, just like Mexico does now.



Dang!!!
Now we will have to share Cuba with all the Yanks again!!! We
Canadians have been enjoying Cuba's beaches and resorts for years.
They have some pretty nice hotels and resorts


I'd like to visit. Maybe bring back a '55 Chevy.
They are not allowed to export them. They are a "cultural icon" or
something like that. Normalizing relations will not necessarily mean
all of a sudden Cubans will be able to buy cheap cars. Only recently
they are actually allowed to buy and sell vehicles -at a price of 20
years or more wages for the average Cuban worker for a used Chinese or
Russian taxi cab.

On 12/17/2014 5:00 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/17/2014 4:30 PM, wrote:
Dang!!!
Now we will have to share Cuba with all the Yanks again!!! We
Canadians have been enjoying Cuba's beaches and resorts for years.
They have some pretty nice hotels and resorts


I'd like to visit. Maybe bring back a '55 Chevy.

Maybe go visit the hotel where Elian Gonzalez
works, since we sent him back?

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/17/2014 6:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
Did he actually say he was going to end trade restrictions? While he
has an absolute right under the constitution to normalize diplomatic
relations, the trade sanctions are all laws and (IIRC) very specific.

I don't know but I hope so. The entire thing was stupid, pointless and
accomplished nothing.


Allowed Castrol to rule over the populace with a
well lubricated iron fist, as the peasants were
starving and poor.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 18:27:55 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:


Maybe go visit the hotel where Elian Gonzalez
works, since we sent him back?

We? Got a mouse in your pocket

It was the you libs that took him at gun point and deported him, a
child at the time. (Clinton & Janet Reno)

On 12/17/2014 6:35 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 18:27:55 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:


Maybe go visit the hotel where Elian Gonzalez
works, since we sent him back?

We? Got a mouse in your pocket

It was the you libs that took him at gun point and deported him, a
child at the time. (Clinton & Janet Reno)


I vaguely remember a quote about "you might not
like him, but he's our president". Since we're
all getting along now, it's time to normalize
relations with the Tea Party, and resume living
within the US Constitution. We can normalize
relations with the NRA while we are being bold.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/17/2014 7:28 PM, philo wrote:

I swear that I was just talking about this with someone about two days
ago and said that since the US has normalized relations with China,
Russia , Vietnam....you name it...we might as well have them with Cuba
too. I honestly think it's a good thing. They will probably come off
very well selling all their vintage cars to US collectors.


Years ago, there were two books "How children
learn" and "how children fail". Author, I
think it was Bill Hull.

He quoted another elementary school teacher,
asking "what is your goal, and are you getting
there"? Fifty years of Cuba embargo. I'm not
sure what was the goal, or if we made any
progress. It's worth a look, I think.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Yeah, I expect the first big changes in America as a result of normalizing relations with Cuba will be a flood of 1957 Chevrolet Impalas and 1956 Ford Fairlanes in the used car lots and a drop in the price of pineapples.

On 12/17/2014 7:49 PM, nestork wrote:
Yeah, I expect the first big change in America as a result of
normalizing relations with Cuba will be a flood of 1957 Chevrolet
Impalas and 1956 Ford Fairlanes up for sale in Used Car Buyer's Guides.





My guess is a lot of reporters go to
Cuba, and Castrol locks them in prison.
To exchange for Cubans who were convicted
in the USA.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 01:49:46 +0100, nestork
wrote:


Yeah, I expect the first big change in America as a result of
normalizing relations with Cuba will be a flood of 1957 Chevrolet
Impalas and 1956 Ford Fairlanes up for sale in Used Car Buyer's Guides.
Not a chance - and believe me, even the best of them would take a lot
of work to get them back to original, or even in many cases,
acceptable shape. I've seen many and ridden in several of them.
1959 ford custom with straight axle, like a gasser, and a russian
tractor diesel engine with a pretty good 10 foot paint job in every
day taxi service with over 4 million miles on the clock. A 55 chevy
with a Mercedes 200 diesel and the bodywork perforated like a sand
sifter. Mileage unknown. And a couple nice 1940's chevy fleetbacks in
Havana. Some other pretty nice looking cars, but the vast majority are
not what they look like.
Cuban law will not allow their export, and the prices they were
changing hands at in Cuba would buy a fully restored or nice
pro-touring modified stateside,

On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 18:32:00 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/17/2014 6:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
Did he actually say he was going to end trade restrictions? While he
has an absolute right under the constitution to normalize diplomatic
relations, the trade sanctions are all laws and (IIRC) very specific.

I don't know but I hope so. The entire thing was stupid, pointless and
accomplished nothing.


Allowed Castrol to rule over the populace with a
well lubricated iron fist, as the peasants were
starving and poor.

-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Didn't see anyone starving - the bare necessities are provided -
along with totally free health care and education. The average Cuban
does not live well, but they do better than just survive.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

I vaguely remember a quote about "you might not
like him, but he's our president". Since we're
all getting along now, it's time to normalize
relations with the Tea Party, and resume living
within the US Constitution. We can normalize
relations with the NRA while we are being bold.

I think we should make Cruz and Rubio joint ambassadors to Cuba. They are
Cubans after all and it'll keep them out of trouble.

On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 21:58:50 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

I think we should make Cruz and Rubio joint ambassadors to Cuba. They are
Cubans after all and it'll keep them out of trouble.

Bull hocky. One or the other would be a good president in Havana.

I think the social experiment that was communism is officially dead. People now understand that sharing your nothing with everyone simply eliminates the incentive and desire we all have to get ahead of the rest of the pack.

We evolved from apes. Apes are territorial. The food on their territory is THEIR food and they'll kill you if you help yourself to it. And, that's pretty much the way we are. We're greedy. No other word cuts through to capture the true essence of evolution than "greed".

Perhaps if we evolved from ants or bees, we'd be different, but greed is essential to motivate every individual in the population to take a chance by striking out on their own in any venture they believe will pay off; whether that means starting a business or robbing a bank, it all arises from greed.

Communism stifles that incentive by making everyone equal. Only the party leaders are more equal than everyone else, and therefore enjoy a much better lifestyle than everyone else by using their position to steal as much as they can for themselves.

On Thursday, December 18, 2014 3:17:11 AM UTC-5, nestork wrote:
'Oren[_2_ Wrote:
;3322791']
Bull hocky. One or the other would be a good president in Havana.

I think the social experiment that was communism is officially dead.

It was dead in 1960, a failure even then, but the corpse lives on.
Try telling the Castros, that run the place that communism is dead.
The govt still owns virtually all the businesses and property.



People now understand that sharing your nothing with everyone simply
eliminates the incentive and desire we all have to get ahead of the rest
of the pack.


A lot of people undestood that in 1960 too, like all the folks who
had their wealth confiscated, their businesses taken away, their relatives
shot. A lot of people understood it in the half a century since, when
they fled here, risking their lives to escape. The problem is,
the Castros are still the dictators running the place and they don't
understand that and haven't changed much.



We evolved from apes. Apes are territorial. The food on their
territory is THEIR food and they'll kill you if you help yourself to it.
And, that's pretty much the way we are. We're greedy. No other word
cuts through to capture the true essence of evolution than "greed".

Perhaps if we evolved from ants or bees, we'd be different, but greed is
essential to motivate every individual in the population to take a
chance by striking out on their own in any venture they believe will pay
off; whether that means starting a business or robbing a bank, it all
arises from greed.

Communism stifles that incentive by making everyone equal. Only the
party leaders are more equal than everyone else, and therefore enjoy a
much better lifestyle than everyone else by using their position to
steal as much as they can for themselves.




--
nestork

You're preaching to the choir with that last part. Unfortunately the
apes running Cuba don't agree with you.

On 12/17/2014 11:08 PM, wrote:
Didn't see anyone starving - the bare necessities are provided -
along with totally free health care and education. The average Cuban
does not live well, but they do better than just survive.


http://www.csmonitor.com/1995/0612/12062.html


The Christian Science Monitor

June 12, 1995

HAVANA — LAURA FRAILE ROMERO holds open a tattered coin purse to reveal
a few small coins and a 10-peso bill.

"Do you think I can make it to the end of the month on that?" she asks.
"The truth is, I go to bed hungry at night."

The retired English teacher is waiting for the doors to open for lunch
at Comedor 75, a soup kitchen for retired workers in Old Havana. Today,
she will pay 50 centavos - about two pennies - for rice, beans, and
soup. It's a bargain, but on a state pension that equals a little over
$2 a month, every penny counts.
Recommended: Could you pass a US citizenship test?

Miss Fraile puts a face on a topic that remains controversial he the
existence - or not - of hunger in Cuba.

That hunger exists in Latin America, or even in the wealthy United
States, is never questioned. But in Communist Cuba, hunger is the kind
of problem that was not supposed to happen.

Even if little else remained, the pride of Fidel Castro Ruz's revolution
was still that children went to school, health care was free - and no
one went hungry.

Now even Cuban officials say the country's economic collapse, steep
declines in food production, a free fall in food imports since the loss
of fat Soviet subsidies in 1992, and the US trade embargo have caused
continuing problems in meeting Cubans' food needs. While they hesitate
to speak of "hunger," they readily refer to "unmet needs."

"Yes, there are needs that these days are not always filled," says Jose
Gonzalez, director of Comedor 75. He makes no effort to counter the
claims of those, like Fraile, who complain of hunger. He only says,
"Maybe the hungry ones don't come here again for dinner, they have that
right."

But other Cubans claim that hunger is in fact a growing problem. Even
Mr. Castro acknowledged that the "basic basket" of subsidized foods
guaranteed Cuban families does not meet basic needs - which is one
reason the farmers' markets were reintroduced last year.

One monthly ration of food is actually only enough to feed an individual
for 10 days, according to the National Association of Independent
Economists of Cuba, a group of dissident economists that support a rapid
transition to a market economy.

Milk is rationed and only available for children up to age 7. Families
with children between 7 and 13 can get two pounds of yoghurt a month.
The elderly are allowed some milk in powdered form. A family in Havana
is rationed seven eggs a month, a provincial family three. Rice,
cabbage, bananas, everything is carefully rationed.

"Children go to school hungry, and hungry children don't learn," says
Marta Beatriz Roque, an economist with the National Association of
Independent Economists of Cuba.

But with little open acknowledgment of the problem, Cubans are left to
anecdotal evidence that hunger exists.

A Mexican woman in Havana says she went to see her Cuban husband's
family on the eastern end of the island recently and found they had not
eaten for three days. "They had no food," she says.

A Cuban journalist whose work focuses on women says many people she
talks with report pinning skirt waists or cinching belts another notch
to keep their pants on. "A lot of people definitely aren't eating their
fill," she says.

Hunger here is starting to get some international attention. Oxfam
America, for example, sent its Caribbean program director to Cuba last
month and may be considering establishing an assistance program there
for the first time.

Still, a topic that strikes at the heart of the Cuban revolution remains
controversial here, even among ordinary Cubans. Back at Comedor 75,
Fraile no sooner speaks of her own experience with hunger than a man
beside her calls her a "liar."

"What she says is a false attack on the achievements of the revolution,"
says Porfirio Rodriguez, also waiting for lunch at Comedor 75. "There
may be needs, but in Cuba, there is no hunger."
Related Stories

"nestork" wrote in message
...

Wages in Cuba are low, and they are located very much closer to the US
mainland, and so US companies would not have to pay the higher shipping
cost to ship finished products from China.

This is an interesting test of the cost system of the
current manufacturing economy. So far as manufactures
are now (1) bar-coded and (2) delivered in bulk in standard
shipping containers, does distance cost anything any more?
We may discover that goods from (say) Malaysia are
cheaper than the same goods from Cuba (cf. the capital
cost of infrastructure for Cuba to assemble raw materials etc.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:09:03 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/17/2014 11:08 PM, wrote:
Didn't see anyone starving - the bare necessities are provided -
along with totally free health care and education. The average Cuban
does not live well, but they do better than just survive.


http://www.csmonitor.com/1995/0612/12062.html


The Christian Science Monitor

June 12, 1995

HAVANA — LAURA FRAILE ROMERO holds open a tattered coin purse to reveal
a few small coins and a 10-peso bill.

"Do you think I can make it to the end of the month on that?" she asks.
"The truth is, I go to bed hungry at night."

Amazing that with all that suffering, their health stats are
so much better than the USA's. They must be blessed by goD, or
something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate
(kicks ass)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy
(a draw)

Or maybe someone needs to grow a brain, and throw out all that
old McCarthy propaganda. It went moldy ages ago.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

On 12/18/2014 9:57 AM, Shadow wrote:
Amazing that with all that suffering, their health stats are
so much better than the USA's. They must be blessed by goD, or
something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate
(kicks ass)

Or maybe someone needs to grow a brain, and throw out all that
old McCarthy propaganda. It went moldy ages ago.
[]'s

Note that due to differences in reporting, these numbers may not be
comparable across countries; while the WHO recommendation is that all
children who show signs of life should be recorded as live births, in
many countries this standard is not followed, artificially lowering
their infant mortality rates relative to countries which follow those
standards.

If the McCarthy stuff is so wrong, why do Cubans
try to get to the US on boats, but we've not had
many US try to go to Cuba?

On Thursday, December 18, 2014 9:58:59 AM UTC-5, Shadow wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:09:03 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/17/2014 11:08 PM, wrote:
Didn't see anyone starving - the bare necessities are provided -
along with totally free health care and education. The average Cuban
does not live well, but they do better than just survive.


http://www.csmonitor.com/1995/0612/12062.html


The Christian Science Monitor

June 12, 1995

HAVANA -- LAURA FRAILE ROMERO holds open a tattered coin purse to reveal
a few small coins and a 10-peso bill.

"Do you think I can make it to the end of the month on that?" she asks.
"The truth is, I go to bed hungry at night."

Amazing that with all that suffering, their health stats are
so much better than the USA's. They must be blessed by goD, or
something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate
(kicks ass)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy
(a draw)

Or maybe someone needs to grow a brain, and throw out all that
old McCarthy propaganda. It went moldy ages ago.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

Their life expectancy, per your own source, isn't so much better than
the USA. It's actually a tad lower. Still it's a valid point, they
are about the same as the USA.

The infant mortality numbers, I think you have to look beyond the raw
numbers. All you have is the reported deaths per 1000 live births.
Given that the USA has some of the most advanced means available to
allow children to be born alive that would not have made it in many
other countries, that has to be factored in. Meaning that in Cuba,
if you have a pregnancy that goes wrong, it may very well end there,
with no live birth to record. In the USA it could result in a live birth,
of an infant with the resulting complications, with the infant dying
weeks later, increasing the USA infant mortality.

I also would not trust numbers from a dictatorship, run by commies,
where there is no freedom of press and where anyone that dares question
the govt winds up in jail or dead. All commies lie. Even alleged
ex-commies, like Putin, still have it in their blood.

On 12/18/2014 08:22 AM, trader_4 wrote:
X

snipped

Read it but there was nothing you said that ****ed me off enough to
comment on



Saudia Arabia is where Osama Bin Laden came from...those kind of friends
we don't need. Fifteen of the 19 hijackers were Saudis.
Like I said "**** em"

Following that logic, if some American terrorist winds up committing
a terrorist act in the UK, then the UK should tell us the same thing.


Funny but I don't seem to recall American terrorists attacking the UK

(shrug)



Yes, we should tell Saudia Arabia to go **** itself.


By us believing the HUGE lie that they are are friends we are screwing
ourselves big time. The worst enemies are those who have a big smile on
their face. At least the nazis had nice arm bands to identify themselves.


911 was the biggest attack on the US since Pearl Harbor.

The US should have addressed the problem immediately and in no uncertain
terms.

On 12/18/2014 11:05 AM, philo wrote:
Yes, we should tell Saudia Arabia to go **** itself.

By us believing the HUGE lie that they are are friends we are screwing
ourselves big time. The worst enemies are those who have a big smile on
their face. At least the nazis had nice arm bands to identify themselves.

911 was the biggest attack on the US since Pearl Harbor.

The US should have addressed the problem immediately and in no uncertain
terms.


Do I remember that 17 of the 19 were Saudis?

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

I believe that:

1. The US government and the US people all realize that trade sanctions against Cuba haven't worked to bring about a change in leadership, and probably never will.

2. The Cuban government and the Cuban people all realize that the communist system put in place by Castro hasn't created a better life for the Cuban people as it was intended to, and probably never will.

I expect that the communist system in Cuba will follow much the same path as that of China where the government remains officially communist, but the economy is purely capitalist and everyone is free to do as they please to fill their own rice bowl with as much rice as they can.

I can see a powerful economic partnership developing between the USA and Cuba. Cubans, getting paid $2 $US per month, can produce as high quality goods in US owned factories as Chinese workers getting paid $20 $US per month, and I can see that shaking up the economic interdependance that currently exists between the USA and China. I can easily see Cuba becoming the next world manufacturing center, competing with the likes of China and Malaysia. Only, Cuba has a much nicer climate and much nicer beaches than China or Malaysia.

On 12/18/2014 11:53 AM, trader_4 wrote:

X

snipped

read but again nothing ****ed me off enough to comment on



We did. We invaded Afghanistan, where most of Al Qaeda,


And we are still there!


It's never going to end.

I think the last time the US had a real leader was before I was born.

On 12/18/2014 11:56 AM, nestork wrote:
I believe that:

1. The US government and the US people all realize that trade sanctions
against Cuba haven't worked to bring about a change in leadership, and
probably never will.

2. The Cuban government and the Cuban people all realize that the
communist system put in place by Castro hasn't created a better life for
the Cuban people as it was intended to, and probably never will.

I expect that the communist system in Cuba will follow much the same
path as that of China where the government remains officially communist,
but the economy is purely capitalist and everyone is free to do as they
please to fill their own rice bowl with as much rice as they can.

I can see a powerful economic partnership developing between the USA and
Cuba. Cubans, getting paid $2 $US per month, can produce as high
quality goods in US owned factories as Chinese workers getting paid $20
$US per month, and I can see that shaking up the economic
interdependance that currently exists between the USA and China. I can
easily see Cuba becoming the next world manufacturing center, competing
with the likes of China and Malaysia. Only, Cuba has a much nicer
climate and much nicer beaches than China or Malaysia.







Yep, I agree.

Cuba is not a threat to us.


No one in the US has ever properly addressed North Korea
or anything in the Mid-East to any degree of satisfaction.


Two HUGE elephants in the room and now there are bound to be some
****ing and moaning about (the non-problem) Cuba.


BTW:


I've been to London a few times and got some Cuban cigars there.


I'm not a smoker but occasionally I enjoy a good cigar.

Just had to see what the big deal was. Personally I preferred Jamaican
cigars...but again...I am not a smoker so who am I to judge?

"trader_4" wrote in message


They also nationalized all the US assets,
basically an act of war, that has never been addressed.

Yeah, I understand that Meyer Lansky was livid.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 12/18/2014 03:00 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message

They also nationalized all the US assets,
basically an act of war, that has never been addressed.

Yeah, I understand that Meyer Lansky was livid.




+1

I don't smoke, and I can't tell the difference between a top rated Cuban cigar and the cheapest cigar in the whole tobacconist's shop.

It's the same with most stuff. I can't tell the diffeence between a mongrel mutt from an animal shelter and the Best in Show at the Westminister Kennel Club. I presume the dog from the Kennel Club would have fewer ticks and wouldn't smell as much when you give it a bath. I can't tell the difference between a really good bottle of Bordeaux Chateau Whatever and a bottle of cheap Chilean dinner wine. I'd probably like the sweeter one more. Since I use my computer very much like a glorified typewriter, I can't tell the difference between a 386SX processor and the fastest one out there now. All of this makes me wonder why we're always being sold stuff that's supposedly better if most of us can't tell the difference between good, better and best?

But I agree that the announcement yesterday about the normalization of relations with Cuba is not just political news. It's very much global economic news as manufacturers from all over the world will be looking to Cuba as an attractive alternative to China for a source of cheap labour.

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:00:26 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

"trader_4" wrote in message


They also nationalized all the US assets,
basically an act of war, that has never been addressed.

Yeah, I understand that Meyer Lansky was livid.

He and the mob controlled Cuba and all the girls there
(including the tiny underage ones). But it was a dictatorship back
then, and everyone was "owned" by Batista and his gang of thugs.
Cuba's main cash products were prostitution and gambling, NOT sugar,
rum and cigars.
Funny how these things are forgotten.
[]'s

--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 10:05:23 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/18/2014 9:57 AM, Shadow wrote:
Amazing that with all that suffering, their health stats are
so much better than the USA's. They must be blessed by goD, or
something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate
(kicks ass)

Or maybe someone needs to grow a brain, and throw out all that
old McCarthy propaganda. It went moldy ages ago.
[]'s

Note that due to differences in reporting, these numbers may not be
comparable across countries; while the WHO recommendation is that all
children who show signs of life should be recorded as live births, in
many countries this standard is not followed, artificially lowering
their infant mortality rates relative to countries which follow those
standards.

If the McCarthy stuff is so wrong, why do Cubans
try to get to the US on boats,

Same reason Brazilians used to save for years to go to the US,
then come back when they realized life is easier here. Propaganda. All
our main newspapers, radios and TVs are American owned. We were fed
the story that all Americans made millions of dollars a year, hardly
worked at all, and had amazing toys. Internet killed all that. Very
few people emigrate now, and if they do, it's to hide dirty money.
(See Jose Serra, Fernando Henrique Cardoso, Aecio Neves, Marina Silva,
Joaquim Barbosa, Gilmar Mendes, Daniel Dantas (the TrueCrypt guy) and
countless other criminals that have illegal accounts there).

but we've not had many US try to go to Cuba?

From what I heard, that's illegal. You will get shot by the
coastguard. The American defense system is quite efficient.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

Oren wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 21:58:50 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

I think we should make Cruz and Rubio joint ambassadors to Cuba. They are
Cubans after all and it'll keep them out of trouble.

Bull hocky. One or the other would be a good president in Havana.

Whatever as long as they aren't in DC.

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 20:55:51 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

Oren wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 21:58:50 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

I think we should make Cruz and Rubio joint ambassadors to Cuba. They are
Cubans after all and it'll keep them out of trouble.

Bull hocky. One or the other would be a good president in Havana.

Whatever as long as they aren't in DC.

They already are, haven't you noticed. I like them both.

Alphabetically, it would be a Cruz / Rubio 2016 bumper sticker.

"trader_4" wrote in message
news:5f04ceef-ecaa-44c5-85bf-On Thursday, December 18, 2014 11:05:46 AM
UTC-5, philo wrote:

Saudia Arabia is where Osama Bin Laden came from...those kind of
friends
we don't need. Fifteen of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. Like I said
"**** em"

Precisely. The Saudis funded and executed the 9/11 attack but they were
Bush's BFF's so he went after Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11. He
even flew the Saudis all out of the US on 9/12 when all other air travel was
banned right after the attack.

Jimmy Carter told the Shah of Iran essentially to F*** off, because of
"human rights". Seems the Shah had the crazy islamic nut jobs locked up
or exiled. How did that work out?

About as well as our deposing Saddam who had the nut jobs of Iraq locked up
tight. Much of ISIS is being run by Saddam's former military officers. The
Shah was doomed to fail with or without Carter. Not so Saddam. Cheney and
his cabal alleged that Saddam had WMDs that we needed to eliminate. WMDs
that no one could find in ten years of looking. Bush should have looked in
North Korea. He would have found WMD's there. He didn't because the Iraq
war was all about Bush's hard-on for Saddam and had little to do with
*really* eliminating WMDs in the hands of nut jobs. That was just the cover
story for the feeble-minded. Philo seems to understand that.

--
Bobby G.

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:

"

Precisely. The Saudis funded and executed the 9/11 attack but they were
Bush's BFF's so he went after Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11. He
even flew the Saudis all out of the US on 9/12 when all other air travel was
banned right after the attack.

Iraq was shown to have tried to kill Daddy Bush after he was out of
office. At the time, I noted that the run up seemed to be a Princess
Bride Moment: " I am George W. Bush. You tried to kill my father.
Prepare to die."
--
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.²
‹ Aaron Levenstein

On Thursday, December 18, 2014 5:54:43 PM UTC-5, Shadow wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 10:05:23 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/18/2014 9:57 AM, Shadow wrote:
Amazing that with all that suffering, their health stats are
so much better than the USA's. They must be blessed by goD, or
something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate
(kicks ass)

Or maybe someone needs to grow a brain, and throw out all that
old McCarthy propaganda. It went moldy ages ago.
[]'s

Note that due to differences in reporting, these numbers may not be
comparable across countries; while the WHO recommendation is that all
children who show signs of life should be recorded as live births, in
many countries this standard is not followed, artificially lowering
their infant mortality rates relative to countries which follow those
standards.

If the McCarthy stuff is so wrong, why do Cubans
try to get to the US on boats,

Same reason Brazilians used to save for years to go to the US,
then come back when they realized life is easier here. Propaganda.

I see, so you think life in Cuba is better than in the USA. That's
easily proven wrong by international media, not just the US media
and facts.


All
our main newspapers, radios and TVs are American owned.

I would love to see a cite for that. I say you're lying.




We were fed
the story that all Americans made millions of dollars a year, hardly
worked at all, and had amazing toys. Internet killed all that. Very
few people emigrate now, and if they do, it's to hide dirty money.
(See Jose Serra, Fernando Henrique Cardoso, Aecio Neves, Marina Silva,
Joaquim Barbosa, Gilmar Mendes, Daniel Dantas (the TrueCrypt guy) and
countless other criminals that have illegal accounts there).

emigration having assets invested in the USA

And what exactly would the purpose of this alleged USA propaganda
campaign be? To encourage Brazil to move here? Good grief.



but we've not had many US try to go to Cuba?

From what I heard, that's illegal. You will get shot by the
coastguard. The American defense system is quite efficient.
[]'s
--

Total nonsense. Americans are visiting Cuba regularly, illegally, and
no one is shooting them. And almost all of them get away with it, without
being prosecuted. You just travel to another country first, then to Cuba.
Cuba doesn't stamp US passports, it's very unlikely you'd get caught by
the USA. And that's people who actually return here. If you went to Cuba
permanently, you'd be beyond the reach of US law. Just ask Joanne Chesimard,
a cop killer, for one. So, if you want to flee the USA, go to Cuba for good,
nothing is stopping you. The reason why people don't is obvious to even a
blind squirrel. Are you smarter than a squirrel?

Perhaps you'd like to share some cites of the US Coast Guard gunning down
people on their way to Cuba, or anywhere else. I can give you examples of
Cuba killing Americans in international waters, executing political opponents,
throwing people in jail for long terms for their politics, etc.

On 12/18/2014 1:32 PM, philo wrote:

I'm not a smoker but occasionally I enjoy a good cigar.

Just had to see what the big deal was. Personally I preferred Jamaican
cigars...but again...I am not a smoker so who am I to judge?

I'm not an elephant, but occasionally
I swing my trunk, and make elephant
noises.

You really think we believe you're not
a smoker? You contradict yourself.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

I'm not a liar, but when my wife asked me if the new dress she wanted to buy made her look fat, I said "No". I'm not a liar, but when my neighbor's kid pressed me for an answer, I said "Yes, Jamie, there is a Santa Claus."

Stormin: some things arem't stictly black or white, but various shades of grey.

I photocopied my income tax return at work, and now the receptionist is telling everyone that I'm a thief.

There's a difference between a smoker, some kid who gets an adult to buy him cigarettes so he can supposedly impress his friends, someone who will have an occasional cigarette when offered one and someone who never smokes under any circumstances.

"Not a smoker" means someone who isn't hooked and doesn't normally smoke. It doesn't mean someone who never smokes under any circumstance. So, to say "I'm not a smoker, but I had a cigarette at last year's company Christmas Party" is not a contradiction.

I used to watch that bunk all the time on Sunday morning TV where some TV evangelist would say "If you ever sinned, you are by definition a "sinner"", and I thought "What bunk". If I pounded out something that didn't make sense on a piano, does that make me a "musician"?

On 12/19/2014 11:37 AM, nestork wrote:
Stormin: some things arem't stictly black or white, but various shades
of grey.

I photocopied my income tax return at work, and now the receptionist is
telling everyone that I'm a thief.

There's a difference between a smoker, some kid who gets an adult to buy
him cigarettes so he can supposedly impress his friends, someone who
will have an occasional cigarette when offered one and someone who never
smokes under any circumstances.

"Not a smoker" means someone who isn't hooked and doesn't normally
smoke. It doesn't mean someone who never smokes under any circumstance.
So, to say "I'm not a smoker, but I had a cigarette at last year's
company Christmas Party" is not a contradiction.

I used to watch that bunk all the time on Sunday morning TV where some
TV evangelist would say "If you ever sinned, you are by definition a
"sinner"", and I thought "What bunk". If I pounded out something that
didn't make sense on a piano, does that make me a "musician"?


There is an old joke I can't remember well enough
to quote. It goes some thing about "I give to the
poor, alms and work for the church. I help little
old ladies across the street. But.... just f-k
ONE GOAT!!!!!

Some things only require one.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..