Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1231f$0$47829$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

Gordon Shumway wrote in
:

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 09:41:03 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:
Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season,

Bull****.

Just search the reports. I posted the actual stats from NFPA or some
such some time ago and it was something like 4,000+ residential gas
explosions per year.

Bull****.

4,000 per year = about 1per 80,000 population per year in the U.S. -- which would translate to
about 20 gas explosions per year in metropolitan Indianapolis where I live, or roughly one
every two and a half weeks.

That doesn't happen, Pete.

The NFPA says otherwise.

Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1cffc$0$47853$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

Hmmm... that shows a total of 3380 fires in a five-year period. That's a long way from your
bull**** claim of 4000+ explosions per year.

3380 fires in 5 years = 676 per year. In a nation with a population of over 300 million.

Total of 77 fatalities = 15 per year, which makes gas safer than swimming or climbing ladders.

That figure is per year, 3,280 nat gas and L.P. fueled incidents per
year, every year during the noted period. Nearly 9 incidents every day
on average, though they will be weighted more towards the winter months
in much of the country.

DerbyDad03 wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

That doesn't explain why you said "That document doesn't say anything at
all about leaks." For both LP and nat gas it says the leading contributing
factor was leaks and breaks.

I didn't read it as carefully as I should have; I was mistaken about leaks.

But not about explosions vs. fires.

This is just a question...

When I light my stove, the gas comes from the burner head, a spark ignites
the flowing (and floating) gas, things go POOF! and the burner is lit.

Isn't that an explosion prior to the fire?

If there is a gas leak in my gas pipe and a sparks causes that gas to
ignite and my kitchen catches on fire, can we not equate the 3280 fires
with "explosions", or at least some of them? An explosion doesn't mean the
house has to be lifted off the foundation.

Seems to me that there are two ways to have fire with a gas leak as the
initial cause: a flame applied directly to the leak or a spark causing a
(minor) explosion POOF! and then a resulting fire. Seems like there would
be more POOFs before a fire caused by a gas leak than direct contact with a
flame.

The vast majority of those leaks are going to build a fair amount of
fuel/air mixture before they find an ignition source. The explosion may
range from just blowing out windows, to leveling the home and it's
neighbors, but you can quite reasonably surmise that most of the
incidents include some level of explosion. Fortunately in many of the
cases people recognized the leak and got out before the explosion and/or
fire. The count of course doesn't include the leaks that were contained
without ignition.

Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1ea57$0$47753$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d95c$0$47920$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d042$0$47758$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.

Here is one of their reports:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

And it doesn't show "4000+ residential gas explosions per year", does it?

3,280 give or take, nearly 9 per day on average. Close enough given the
last time I looked it up was in 2010.

Where does it say "explosions", Pete?

Nowhere.

It says "fires".

Clearly you lack the intelligence to understand the dynamics of gaseous
fueled fire incidents. Go back to high school science class.

Clearly you lack the intelligence to differentiate between your assumptions and actual facts.

And it actually is you who lacks the understanding of "gaseous fueled fire incidents", not
me. Nowhere nearly all such incidents are explosions; most are merely fires. You're clearly
unaware that for an explosion to occur, the fuel/air ratio must fall into a fairly narrow band.

If there were actually that many explosions, don't you imagine it would *say* explosions?

There's a *reason* the document talks about fires, not explosions.

There is a reason there isn't a separate stat for explosions - they are
the norm with gas leaks that find ignition sources.

wrote:

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 23:24:59 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry W wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned
out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It
destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families
and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults
to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.
The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking
other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was
messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding
up with a gas leak. o_O

TDD

Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season, and even outside heating season they seem to be at least
monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, and is even
dangerous in industrial settings - recall the gas pipeline explosion in
CA, the gas explosion at the power plant under construction in CT, a gas
pipeline explosion under and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.

Far more people have been killed in fires caused by electrical wiring and
device defects than by gas explosions or gas asphyxiation. Perhaps
electricity simply isn't safe for residential use either.

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.

You're a liar.

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

On 12/18/2013 7:38 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in
news:52b122a4$0$47940$862e30e2 @ngroups.net:


They used to market nat gas as "clean, safe, dependable", now it's
just "clean and dependable", do you think they dropped "safe" for
no reason?

More bull****. It's still marketed as safe:
http://www.citizensenergygroup.com/Energy.aspx

"safe and reliable ... clean-burning"


In Birmingham about 10 years ago a steam pipe from the steam plant
operated by Alabama Power ruptured and boiled a couple of people in
their parked car. The plant dates back to 1895 and Birmingham isn't
that old as most large cities go but there are very old pipes and wires
running under our streets that can fail at any time. Basically, every
source of energy we use is dangerous in some way or another but are we
to crawl in bed and pull the covers over our heads? o_O

TDD

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:
Try a heat pump (air source or geothermal depending on your region),
solar, wood or oil for heat, none of which have any propensity of
leveling the neighborhood.

Bwah, hah, hah.

Michigan.

Not enough sun.

Not going to split wood or buy pellets.

Have a perfectly functioning gas furnace which I'm not going to abandon
for a much more expensive heat pump.

I'm not going to get rid of my gas stove, grill, or water heater,
either.

Cindy Hamilton
--

Geothermal heat pumps work quite nicely in cold climates.

They cost too much. My husband can install a regular forced-air
furnace.

Even if I replaced my furnace with a heat pump, I'd still have the
stove and gas grill (and possibly the water heater).

Clearly, I don't believe that gas presents a statistically significant
danger. We've had this exact discussion before, and neither
of us was convinced of the other's position.

It's significant enough for the NFPA to be interested, and it's a hazard
that has reasonable alternatives. At the very least anyone with gas
appliances/heat should have one or more gas detectors in their house.
They are only $60 or so, and indeed all RVs have had gas detectors for
years, but somehow fixed homes haven't caught up.

Doug Miller wrote:

(Cindy Hamilton) wrote in news:O4nsu.341$wZ.31
@newsreading01.news.tds.net:

Clearly, I don't believe that gas presents a statistically significant
danger. We've had this exact discussion before, and neither
of us was convinced of the other's position.

You won't ever convince Pete of your position, because he's an anti-gas kook whose mind is
already made up.

And he won't ever convince you, or anyone else, of his position because he doesn't know
what he's talking about. There simply are not 4000+ residential gas explosions per year in the
U.S. That's something that Pete made up.

I've provided cites to the statistics, and further anyone can search
news sites to see how prevalent they are.

On 12/18/2013 7:14 AM, G. Morgan wrote:
Daring Dufas : Hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare wrote:

X-Received: by 10.58.137.135 with SMTP id
qi7mr8875905veb.25.1387293912724; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:25:12 -0800
(PST) X-Received: by 10.182.204.9 with SMTP id
ku9mr158572obc.10.1387293912683; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:25:12 -0800
(PST)

Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com;
posting-host=75.108.241.151;
posting-account=1dF1SAoAAAA3WOMInGziQSECVpXz0Dfq NNTP-Posting-Host:
75.108.241.151 User-Agent: G2/1.0 Message-ID:
Subject:
KABOOB!! A Gas Explosion Close To Home From: "Daring Dufas :
Hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare"


We now know the freeloader hypocrite lives in a southern redneck,
racist ******** - that explains a lot.

75.108.241.151 Conroe, Texas, US

What was that about southern ********s?


Most folks have killfiled Killer Loon the nymshifting freak who is using
part of my nym. It's one of my fanboys who followed me here from another
group in an attempt to stir up trouble. I don't killfile anyone,
I just laugh at them as they get more and more desperate to draw
attention to themselves. ^_^

TDD

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:39:00 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1ea57$0$47753$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d95c$0$47920$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d042$0$47758$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.

Here is one of their reports:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

And it doesn't show "4000+ residential gas explosions per year", does it?

3,280 give or take, nearly 9 per day on average. Close enough given the
last time I looked it up was in 2010.

Where does it say "explosions", Pete?

Nowhere.

It says "fires".

Clearly you lack the intelligence to understand the dynamics of gaseous
fueled fire incidents. Go back to high school science class.

Clearly you lack the intelligence to differentiate between your assumptions and actual facts.

And it actually is you who lacks the understanding of "gaseous fueled fire incidents", not
me. Nowhere nearly all such incidents are explosions; most are merely fires. You're clearly
unaware that for an explosion to occur, the fuel/air ratio must fall into a fairly narrow band.

If there were actually that many explosions, don't you imagine it would *say* explosions?

There's a *reason* the document talks about fires, not explosions.

There is a reason there isn't a separate stat for explosions - they are
the norm with gas leaks that find ignition sources.

You *must* be a lefty.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:39:27 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 23:24:59 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry W wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned
out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It
destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families
and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults
to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.
The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking
other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was
messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding
up with a gas leak. o_O

TDD

Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season, and even outside heating season they seem to be at least
monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, and is even
dangerous in industrial settings - recall the gas pipeline explosion in
CA, the gas explosion at the power plant under construction in CT, a gas
pipeline explosion under and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.

Far more people have been killed in fires caused by electrical wiring and
device defects than by gas explosions or gas asphyxiation. Perhaps
electricity simply isn't safe for residential use either.

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.

You're a liar.

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

Proving, once again, that you're a liar. Thanks.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:43:10 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:

(Cindy Hamilton) wrote in news:O4nsu.341$wZ.31
@newsreading01.news.tds.net:

Clearly, I don't believe that gas presents a statistically significant
danger. We've had this exact discussion before, and neither
of us was convinced of the other's position.

You won't ever convince Pete of your position, because he's an anti-gas kook whose mind is
already made up.

And he won't ever convince you, or anyone else, of his position because he doesn't know
what he's talking about. There simply are not 4000+ residential gas explosions per year in the
U.S. That's something that Pete made up.

I've provided cites to the statistics, and further anyone can search
news sites to see how prevalent they are.

You're lying again. You provided no such cites.

On 12/18/2013 3:20 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:39:00 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1ea57$0$47753$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d95c$0$47920$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d042$0$47758$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.

Here is one of their reports:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

And it doesn't show "4000+ residential gas explosions per year", does it?

3,280 give or take, nearly 9 per day on average. Close enough given the
last time I looked it up was in 2010.

Where does it say "explosions", Pete?

Nowhere.

It says "fires".

Clearly you lack the intelligence to understand the dynamics of gaseous
fueled fire incidents. Go back to high school science class.

Clearly you lack the intelligence to differentiate between your assumptions and actual facts.

And it actually is you who lacks the understanding of "gaseous fueled fire incidents", not
me. Nowhere nearly all such incidents are explosions; most are merely fires. You're clearly
unaware that for an explosion to occur, the fuel/air ratio must fall into a fairly narrow band.

If there were actually that many explosions, don't you imagine it would *say* explosions?

There's a *reason* the document talks about fires, not explosions.

There is a reason there isn't a separate stat for explosions - they are
the norm with gas leaks that find ignition sources.

You *must* be a lefty.


What does being left handed have to do with it? ^_^

TDD

On 12/18/2013 1:55 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
In article , Pete C.
wrote:

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In article , Pete C.
wrote:
Try a heat pump (air source or geothermal depending on your
region), solar, wood or oil for heat, none of which have any
propensity of leveling the neighborhood.

Bwah, hah, hah.

Michigan.

Not enough sun.

Not going to split wood or buy pellets.

Have a perfectly functioning gas furnace which I'm not going to
abandon for a much more expensive heat pump.

I'm not going to get rid of my gas stove, grill, or water
heater, either.

Cindy Hamilton --

Geothermal heat pumps work quite nicely in cold climates.

They cost too much. My husband can install a regular forced-air
furnace.

Even if I replaced my furnace with a heat pump, I'd still have the
stove and gas grill (and possibly the water heater).

Clearly, I don't believe that gas presents a statistically
significant danger. We've had this exact discussion before, and
neither of us was convinced of the other's position.

Cindy Hamilton


I'm cooking with gas and wouldn't want it any other way. We also have
gas heat and a gas water heater. There are several electric heaters
around for spot heating. The cost of electric resistance heat is very
expensive with gas heat being the least expensive. Many years ago we had
the things called "Total Electric Homes" that were touted as the future
of the modern living with electrical power being so cheap it wouldn't
even be metered. It was assumed back then that there would be nuclear
power plants everywhere. ^_^

TDD

On 12/17/2013 6:54 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned
out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It
destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families
and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults
to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.
The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking
other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was
messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding
up with a gas leak. o_O

TDD

Dang! I didn't know this would turn into the thread from hell but at
least it's got folks discussing the safety of natural gas in the home. ^_^

TDD

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote in
:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.


You can't find something that isn't there....

Try again:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

That NFPA site says the annual average for deaths due to combined natural
and LP gas accidents is 77, with an additional 287 injuries.
Contrast that with the Electrical Safety Foundation (just happened to
be the first credible site returned in a quick google search) which states
that home electrical distribution and lighting system fires are the
4th leading cause of home fires, causing about 50,900 each year,
averaging 490 deaths and 1,440 injuries.

http://www.esfi.org/index.cfm/page/F...tics/pid/12014

So maybe we really should ban electricity from homes since it is so
much more dangerous than gas...


--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/18/2013 7:14 AM, G. Morgan wrote:
Daring Dufas : Hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare wrote:

X-Received: by 10.58.137.135 with SMTP id
qi7mr8875905veb.25.1387293912724; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:25:12 -0800
(PST) X-Received: by 10.182.204.9 with SMTP id
ku9mr158572obc.10.1387293912683; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:25:12 -0800
(PST)

Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com;
posting-host=75.108.241.151;
posting-account=1dF1SAoAAAA3WOMInGziQSECVpXz0Dfq NNTP-Posting-Host:
75.108.241.151 User-Agent: G2/1.0 Message-ID:
Subject:
KABOOB!! A Gas Explosion Close To Home From: "Daring Dufas :
Hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare"


We now know the freeloader hypocrite lives in a southern redneck,
racist ******** - that explains a lot.

75.108.241.151 Conroe, Texas, US

What was that about southern ********s?


Most folks have killfiled Killer Loon the nymshifting freak who is using
part of my nym. It's one of my fanboys who followed me here from another
group in an attempt to stir up trouble. I don't killfile anyone,
I just laugh at them as they get more and more desperate to draw
attention to themselves. ^_^

Your fan boi is too dumb to use a real newsreader... wow. They hardly
ever show that level of dumb.

--

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Ben Franklin

On 12/18/2013 03:39 PM, Pete C. wrote:


http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf



Only 77 deaths? That's nothing!

Falling is the leading cause of home injury deaths; it claims nearly 6,000 lives per year.
Maybe we should all wear air bag suits...sort of like the Michelin man.

http://realestate.msn.com/article.as...entid=22436364

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:39:00 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

Snip


There's a *reason* the document talks about fires, not explosions.

There is a reason there isn't a separate stat for explosions - they are
the norm with gas leaks that find ignition sources.

Settle down guys. Here is a table of most common causes of death due
to injury in the United States from the year 2000. I deeply apologize
for not getting something more current... actually I didn't feel like
looking any more.

The table is derived from the National Safety Council's data on
accidents. There are enough numbers here for one of you to claim
victory. Maybe.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:20:21 -0500, wrote:

There's a *reason* the document talks about fires, not explosions.

There is a reason there isn't a separate stat for explosions - they are
the norm with gas leaks that find ignition sources.

You *must* be a lefty.

You didn't just come to that conclusion did you?

On 12/18/2013 06:32 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:39:00 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

Snip


There's a *reason* the document talks about fires, not explosions.

There is a reason there isn't a separate stat for explosions - they are
the norm with gas leaks that find ignition sources.

Settle down guys. Here is a table of most common causes of death due
to injury in the United States from the year 2000. I deeply apologize
for not getting something more current... actually I didn't feel like
looking any more.

The table is derived from the National Safety Council's data on
accidents. There are enough numbers here for one of you to claim
victory. Maybe.


WTF? What table?

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:06:02 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Dang! I didn't know this would turn into the thread from hell but at
least it's got folks discussing the safety of natural gas in the home. ^_^

TDD

Natural gas IS safe as is LP for home use.

I'd likely explode if I was limited to electricity as the only option,
after seeing a monthly bill :-|

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 17:34:10 -0600, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:20:21 -0500, wrote:

There's a *reason* the document talks about fires, not explosions.

There is a reason there isn't a separate stat for explosions - they are
the norm with gas leaks that find ignition sources.

You *must* be a lefty.

You didn't just come to that conclusion did you?

Figured it all out by myself, I did!

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:52:10 -0500, Fred fred@::1 wrote:

On 12/18/2013 06:32 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:39:00 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

Snip


There's a *reason* the document talks about fires, not explosions.

There is a reason there isn't a separate stat for explosions - they are
the norm with gas leaks that find ignition sources.

Settle down guys. Here is a table of most common causes of death due
to injury in the United States from the year 2000. I deeply apologize
for not getting something more current... actually I didn't feel like
looking any more.

The table is derived from the National Safety Council's data on
accidents. There are enough numbers here for one of you to claim
victory. Maybe.


WTF? What table?

Hold yer horses there, Fred. There's a logical explanation.

Umm, I fergot to add the link.

I hope this helps.

http://danger.mongabay.com/injury_death.htm

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b2052b$0$47752$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1231f$0$47829$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

Gordon Shumway wrote in
:

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 09:41:03 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:
Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season,

Bull****.

Just search the reports. I posted the actual stats from NFPA or some
such some time ago and it was something like 4,000+ residential gas
explosions per year.

Bull****.

4,000 per year = about 1per 80,000 population per year in the U.S. -- which would
translate to
about 20 gas explosions per year in metropolitan Indianapolis where I live, or roughly
one
every two and a half weeks.

That doesn't happen, Pete.

The NFPA says otherwise.

No they don't.

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b205c7$0$47741$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1cffc$0$47853$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

Hmmm... that shows a total of 3380 fires in a five-year period. That's a long way from your
bull**** claim of 4000+ explosions per year.

3380 fires in 5 years = 676 per year. In a nation with a population of over 300 million.

Total of 77 fatalities = 15 per year, which makes gas safer than swimming or climbing
ladders.

That figure is per year, 3,280 nat gas and L.P. fueled incidents per
year, every year during the noted period. Nearly 9 incidents every day
on average, though they will be weighted more towards the winter months
in much of the country.

Fires, not explosions.

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b206d5$0$47793$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


DerbyDad03 wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

That doesn't explain why you said "That document doesn't say anything at
all about leaks." For both LP and nat gas it says the leading contributing
factor was leaks and breaks.

I didn't read it as carefully as I should have; I was mistaken about leaks.

But not about explosions vs. fires.

This is just a question...

When I light my stove, the gas comes from the burner head, a spark ignites
the flowing (and floating) gas, things go POOF! and the burner is lit.

Isn't that an explosion prior to the fire?

If there is a gas leak in my gas pipe and a sparks causes that gas to
ignite and my kitchen catches on fire, can we not equate the 3280 fires
with "explosions", or at least some of them? An explosion doesn't mean the
house has to be lifted off the foundation.

Seems to me that there are two ways to have fire with a gas leak as the
initial cause: a flame applied directly to the leak or a spark causing a
(minor) explosion POOF! and then a resulting fire. Seems like there would
be more POOFs before a fire caused by a gas leak than direct contact with a
flame.

The vast majority of those leaks are going to build a fair amount of
fuel/air mixture before they find an ignition source. The explosion may
range from just blowing out windows, to leveling the home and it's
neighbors, but you can quite reasonably surmise that most of the
incidents include some level of explosion. Fortunately in many of the
cases people recognized the leak and got out before the explosion and/or
fire. The count of course doesn't include the leaks that were contained
without ignition.

Surmise. assume, presume -- but you still don't have any actual evidence, do you?

You made it up, Pete.

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b207a3$0$47770$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:

There is a reason there isn't a separate stat for explosions - they are
the norm with gas leaks that find ignition sources.

It says "fires", not "explosions". The "4000+ explosions" is something you made up.

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b2089e$0$47959$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

(Cindy Hamilton) wrote in news:O4nsu.341$wZ.31
@newsreading01.news.tds.net:

Clearly, I don't believe that gas presents a statistically significant
danger. We've had this exact discussion before, and neither
of us was convinced of the other's position.

You won't ever convince Pete of your position, because he's an anti-gas kook whose
mind is
already made up.

And he won't ever convince you, or anyone else, of his position because he doesn't
know
what he's talking about. There simply are not 4000+ residential gas explosions per year
in the
U.S. That's something that Pete made up.

I've provided cites to the statistics, and further anyone can search
news sites to see how prevalent they are.

No, you have not. You've provided a cite to statistics about *fires*, but nothing at all about
*explosions*.

That's something that you made up, and it's complete bull****.

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b207bf$0$47732$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


wrote:

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 23:24:59 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:
Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.

You're a liar.

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

Like the man said, Pete -- you're a liar. That talks about *fires*.

The stuff about explosions, you just made up.

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:54:55 AM UTC-5, The Daring Dufas wrote:
At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned

out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It

destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families

and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults

to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.

The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking

other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was

messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding

up with a gas leak. o_O



TDD

Hope it was a goddamned courthouse.

Violently overthrow the US Government

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:16:52 AM UTC-5, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 09:41:03 -0500, "Pete C."

wrote:





The Daring Dufas wrote:



At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned

out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It

destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families

and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults

to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.

The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking

other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was

messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding

up with a gas leak. o_O



TDD



Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during

heating season, and even outside heating season they seem to be at least

monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, and is even

dangerous in industrial settings - recall the gas pipeline explosion in

CA, the gas explosion at the power plant under construction in CT, a gas

pipeline explosion under and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.



Do some research before you blurt out statements like "Gas simply

isn't safe for residential use, and is even dangerous in industrial

settings." Give us some facts, not opinions. Nothing is 100% safe.

I think more government buildings should be using gas.

Violently overthrow the US government

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 12:07:23 PM UTC-5, Answer Man wrote:
On 12/17/2013 09:41 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during

heating season, and even outside heating season they seem to be at least

monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, and is even

dangerous in industrial settings - recall the gas pipeline explosion in

CA, the gas explosion at the power plant under construction in CT, a gas

pipeline explosion under and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.



Millions more people die from strokes, cancer, liver disease, dementia,

heart disease and diabetes yet that doesn't stop the McJunkFood chain

from selling slabs of fat, salt and sugar disguised as food.



Got any of those diseases yet? Have some more fast food, you will!

Millions of innocent Americans are sitting in prison so a few plutocratic bags of **** can play golf.

We want a violent overthrow of the US government

On 12/18/2013 10:45 AM, Pete C. wrote:

y a heat pump (air source or geothermal depending on your region),
solar, wood or oil for heat, none of which have any propensity of
leveling the neighborhood.


None of which has the propensity to economically replace NG. Heat
pumps are okay for cooling. Not much so for heating unless you
are very lucky. Still cost $$.

Solar: Joke.

Wood: Really?

Oil: Cost versus NG?

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 12:18:57 PM UTC-5, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/17/2013 8:52 AM, dpb wrote:

On 12/17/2013 8:41 AM, Pete C. wrote: ...



... Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, ...



Nonsense. It does require a certain level of care, however, but so

does electricity and any other energy source. Consider the number of

residences and miles of pipeline that _didn't_ "go boom".



All of the incidents you describe were the result of an error of

commission or omission -- lack of maintenance is certainly a problem

that needs addressing on older lines, that is true.





5 children and 3 adults have been injured and are hospitalized. 1 woman

was found dead in the rubble. I feel for the poor folks especially the

children. I don't like it when children are hurt. o_O



TDD

Phony capitalist bag of **** hiding behind nurseries.

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/18/2013 7:38 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in
news:52b122a4$0$47940$862e30e2 @ngroups.net:


They used to market nat gas as "clean, safe, dependable", now it's
just "clean and dependable", do you think they dropped "safe" for
no reason?

More bull****. It's still marketed as safe:
http://www.citizensenergygroup.com/Energy.aspx

"safe and reliable ... clean-burning"


In Birmingham about 10 years ago a steam pipe from the steam plant
operated by Alabama Power ruptured and boiled a couple of people in
their parked car. The plant dates back to 1895 and Birmingham isn't
that old as most large cities go but there are very old pipes and wires
running under our streets that can fail at any time.

Basically, every source of energy we use is dangerous in some way or another

Some more so than others.

but are we
to crawl in bed and pull the covers over our heads? o_O

TDD

Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b206d5$0$47793$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


DerbyDad03 wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

That doesn't explain why you said "That document doesn't say anything at
all about leaks." For both LP and nat gas it says the leading contributing
factor was leaks and breaks.

I didn't read it as carefully as I should have; I was mistaken about leaks.

But not about explosions vs. fires.

This is just a question...

When I light my stove, the gas comes from the burner head, a spark ignites
the flowing (and floating) gas, things go POOF! and the burner is lit.

Isn't that an explosion prior to the fire?

If there is a gas leak in my gas pipe and a sparks causes that gas to
ignite and my kitchen catches on fire, can we not equate the 3280 fires
with "explosions", or at least some of them? An explosion doesn't mean the
house has to be lifted off the foundation.

Seems to me that there are two ways to have fire with a gas leak as the
initial cause: a flame applied directly to the leak or a spark causing a
(minor) explosion POOF! and then a resulting fire. Seems like there would
be more POOFs before a fire caused by a gas leak than direct contact with a
flame.

The vast majority of those leaks are going to build a fair amount of
fuel/air mixture before they find an ignition source. The explosion may
range from just blowing out windows, to leveling the home and it's
neighbors, but you can quite reasonably surmise that most of the
incidents include some level of explosion. Fortunately in many of the
cases people recognized the leak and got out before the explosion and/or
fire. The count of course doesn't include the leaks that were contained
without ignition.

Surmise. assume, presume -- but you still don't have any actual evidence, do you?

You made it up, Pete.

Call NFPA and ask them if you don't think it's true.

Larry W wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote in
:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.


You can't find something that isn't there....

Try again:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

That NFPA site says the annual average for deaths due to combined natural
and LP gas accidents is 77, with an additional 287 injuries.
Contrast that with the Electrical Safety Foundation (just happened to
be the first credible site returned in a quick google search) which states
that home electrical distribution and lighting system fires are the
4th leading cause of home fires, causing about 50,900 each year,
averaging 490 deaths and 1,440 injuries.

http://www.esfi.org/index.cfm/page/F...tics/pid/12014

So maybe we really should ban electricity from homes since it is so
much more dangerous than gas...

Or perhaps we do something intelligent like mandate gas detectors just
like we mandate smoke detectors? It's pretty sad that gas detectors have
been standard in the RV industry for years while they still aren't
required for residences using explosive fuels.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:33:29 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/18/2013 7:38 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in
news:52b122a4$0$47940$862e30e2 @ngroups.net:


They used to market nat gas as "clean, safe, dependable", now it's
just "clean and dependable", do you think they dropped "safe" for
no reason?

More bull****. It's still marketed as safe:
http://www.citizensenergygroup.com/Energy.aspx

"safe and reliable ... clean-burning"


In Birmingham about 10 years ago a steam pipe from the steam plant
operated by Alabama Power ruptured and boiled a couple of people in
their parked car. The plant dates back to 1895 and Birmingham isn't
that old as most large cities go but there are very old pipes and wires
running under our streets that can fail at any time.

Basically, every source of energy we use is dangerous in some way or another

Some more so than others.

Certainly, and we've shown that gas is even safer than electricity.
It's cheaper, too. What's not to like?

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:34:47 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b206d5$0$47793$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


DerbyDad03 wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

That doesn't explain why you said "That document doesn't say anything at
all about leaks." For both LP and nat gas it says the leading contributing
factor was leaks and breaks.

I didn't read it as carefully as I should have; I was mistaken about leaks.

But not about explosions vs. fires.

This is just a question...

When I light my stove, the gas comes from the burner head, a spark ignites
the flowing (and floating) gas, things go POOF! and the burner is lit.

Isn't that an explosion prior to the fire?

If there is a gas leak in my gas pipe and a sparks causes that gas to
ignite and my kitchen catches on fire, can we not equate the 3280 fires
with "explosions", or at least some of them? An explosion doesn't mean the
house has to be lifted off the foundation.

Seems to me that there are two ways to have fire with a gas leak as the
initial cause: a flame applied directly to the leak or a spark causing a
(minor) explosion POOF! and then a resulting fire. Seems like there would
be more POOFs before a fire caused by a gas leak than direct contact with a
flame.

The vast majority of those leaks are going to build a fair amount of
fuel/air mixture before they find an ignition source. The explosion may
range from just blowing out windows, to leveling the home and it's
neighbors, but you can quite reasonably surmise that most of the
incidents include some level of explosion. Fortunately in many of the
cases people recognized the leak and got out before the explosion and/or
fire. The count of course doesn't include the leaks that were contained
without ignition.

Surmise. assume, presume -- but you still don't have any actual evidence, do you?

You made it up, Pete.

Call NFPA and ask them if you don't think it's true.

You're lying, again. Only a lefty can lie so consistently.