Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b207a3$0$47770$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:

There is a reason there isn't a separate stat for explosions - they are
the norm with gas leaks that find ignition sources.

It says "fires", not "explosions". The "4000+ explosions" is something you made up.

It's the reality of fires caused by gas leaks. Ask the NFPA if you don't
like it, but that doesn't change the facts.

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:39:27 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 23:24:59 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry W wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned
out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It
destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families
and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults
to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.
The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking
other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was
messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding
up with a gas leak. o_O

TDD

Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season, and even outside heating season they seem to be at least
monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, and is even
dangerous in industrial settings - recall the gas pipeline explosion in
CA, the gas explosion at the power plant under construction in CT, a gas
pipeline explosion under and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.

Far more people have been killed in fires caused by electrical wiring and
device defects than by gas explosions or gas asphyxiation. Perhaps
electricity simply isn't safe for residential use either.

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.

You're a liar.

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

Proving, once again, that you're a liar. Thanks.

Proving once again that you have no reading comprehension, nor science
comprehension.

Rich Phallus wrote:

On 12/18/2013 03:39 PM, Pete C. wrote:


http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf


Only 77 deaths? That's nothing!

Falling is the leading cause of home injury deaths; it claims nearly 6,000 lives per year.
Maybe we should all wear air bag suits...sort of like the Michelin man.

http://realestate.msn.com/article.as...entid=22436364

I didn't say it was a leading cause of deaths. It is a significant
hazard, and if you are one of the ~9 daily victims of a gas fueled
fire/explosion and loose your home, you'll consider it a significant
hazard as well.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:37:38 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry W wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote in
:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.


You can't find something that isn't there....

Try again:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

That NFPA site says the annual average for deaths due to combined natural
and LP gas accidents is 77, with an additional 287 injuries.
Contrast that with the Electrical Safety Foundation (just happened to
be the first credible site returned in a quick google search) which states
that home electrical distribution and lighting system fires are the
4th leading cause of home fires, causing about 50,900 each year,
averaging 490 deaths and 1,440 injuries.

http://www.esfi.org/index.cfm/page/F...tics/pid/12014

So maybe we really should ban electricity from homes since it is so
much more dangerous than gas...

Or perhaps we do something intelligent like mandate gas detectors just
like we mandate smoke detectors? It's pretty sad that gas detectors have
been standard in the RV industry for years while they still aren't
required for residences using explosive fuels.

Perhaps because there have been so damned few problems it's not
economically justified. Idiot.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:43:47 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b207a3$0$47770$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:

There is a reason there isn't a separate stat for explosions - they are
the norm with gas leaks that find ignition sources.

It says "fires", not "explosions". The "4000+ explosions" is something you made up.

It's the reality of fires caused by gas leaks. Ask the NFPA if you don't
like it, but that doesn't change the facts.

The reality of this NG is that you're a liar.

Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b207bf$0$47732$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


wrote:

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 23:24:59 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:
Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.

You're a liar.

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

Like the man said, Pete -- you're a liar. That talks about *fires*.

The stuff about explosions, you just made up.

Nope, you just don't like the facts so you call me names. The fact is
that an independent source confirms exactly what I said. Even a couple
seconds of delayed ignition in a gas furnace results in a (small)
explosion. A gas leak that has to travel any distance before it reaches
an ignition source will certainly produce an explosion of some varying
size. That one last year was so large it killed the neighbor's and left
only a crater where the subject house used to be.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:45:22 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:39:27 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 23:24:59 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry W wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned
out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It
destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families
and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults
to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.
The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking
other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was
messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding
up with a gas leak. o_O

TDD

Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season, and even outside heating season they seem to be at least
monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, and is even
dangerous in industrial settings - recall the gas pipeline explosion in
CA, the gas explosion at the power plant under construction in CT, a gas
pipeline explosion under and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.

Far more people have been killed in fires caused by electrical wiring and
device defects than by gas explosions or gas asphyxiation. Perhaps
electricity simply isn't safe for residential use either.

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.

You're a liar.

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

Proving, once again, that you're a liar. Thanks.

Proving once again that you have no reading comprehension, nor science
comprehension.

Proving once again that you're a lefty loon. Lying is your only mode.

Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b2089e$0$47959$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

(Cindy Hamilton) wrote in news:O4nsu.341$wZ.31
@newsreading01.news.tds.net:

Clearly, I don't believe that gas presents a statistically significant
danger. We've had this exact discussion before, and neither
of us was convinced of the other's position.

You won't ever convince Pete of your position, because he's an anti-gas kook whose
mind is
already made up.

And he won't ever convince you, or anyone else, of his position because he doesn't
know
what he's talking about. There simply are not 4000+ residential gas explosions per year
in the
U.S. That's something that Pete made up.

I've provided cites to the statistics, and further anyone can search
news sites to see how prevalent they are.

No, you have not. You've provided a cite to statistics about *fires*, but nothing at all about
*explosions*.

That's something that you made up, and it's complete bull****.

You flunked out of elementary school I see. **** off troll.

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:43:10 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:

(Cindy Hamilton) wrote in news:O4nsu.341$wZ.31
@newsreading01.news.tds.net:

Clearly, I don't believe that gas presents a statistically significant
danger. We've had this exact discussion before, and neither
of us was convinced of the other's position.

You won't ever convince Pete of your position, because he's an anti-gas kook whose mind is
already made up.

And he won't ever convince you, or anyone else, of his position because he doesn't know
what he's talking about. There simply are not 4000+ residential gas explosions per year in the
U.S. That's something that Pete made up.

I've provided cites to the statistics, and further anyone can search
news sites to see how prevalent they are.

You're lying again. You provided no such cites.

You have provided no cites, I have. Go back to your mother's basement
and jerk off troll.

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/18/2013 1:55 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
In article , Pete C.
wrote:

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In article , Pete C.
wrote:
Try a heat pump (air source or geothermal depending on your
region), solar, wood or oil for heat, none of which have any
propensity of leveling the neighborhood.

Bwah, hah, hah.

Michigan.

Not enough sun.

Not going to split wood or buy pellets.

Have a perfectly functioning gas furnace which I'm not going to
abandon for a much more expensive heat pump.

I'm not going to get rid of my gas stove, grill, or water
heater, either.

Cindy Hamilton --

Geothermal heat pumps work quite nicely in cold climates.

They cost too much. My husband can install a regular forced-air
furnace.

Even if I replaced my furnace with a heat pump, I'd still have the
stove and gas grill (and possibly the water heater).

Clearly, I don't believe that gas presents a statistically
significant danger. We've had this exact discussion before, and
neither of us was convinced of the other's position.

Cindy Hamilton


I'm cooking with gas and wouldn't want it any other way. We also have
gas heat and a gas water heater. There are several electric heaters
around for spot heating. The cost of electric resistance heat is very
expensive with gas heat being the least expensive. Many years ago we had
the things called "Total Electric Homes" that were touted as the future
of the modern living with electrical power being so cheap it wouldn't
even be metered. It was assumed back then that there would be nuclear
power plants everywhere. ^_^

I never suggested electric resistive heating was recommended. Heat
pumps, air or ground source, are around 4X the efficiency of resistive
heat.

On 12/18/2013 7:37 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Or perhaps we do something intelligent like mandate gas detectors just
like we mandate smoke detectors? It's pretty sad that gas detectors have
been standard in the RV industry for years while they still aren't
required for residences using explosive fuels.


Mandate? F that. I'd destroy the thing out of spite.

Irreverent Maximus wrote:

On 12/18/2013 10:45 AM, Pete C. wrote:

y a heat pump (air source or geothermal depending on your region),
solar, wood or oil for heat, none of which have any propensity of
leveling the neighborhood.


None of which has the propensity to economically replace NG. Heat
pumps are okay for cooling. Not much so for heating unless you
are very lucky. Still cost $$.

Geothermal heat pumps work very efficiently in nearly every climate. Air
source heat pumps are only for moderate climates, but are cheaper to
install than geothermal. You need to take another look for up to date
information.

Solar: Joke.

Hardly, it's very effective in moderate climates, and even in more
severe climates it's still effective at reducing the costs of heating
overall even if it can't provide 100%.

Wood: Really?

All throughout the northeast, northwest and various other areas. There
are many thousands who heat exclusively with wood.

Oil: Cost versus NG?

That varies of course. With the current NG glut oil is more per BTU, but
in the northeast where a large percentage of the population doesn't have
NG service available at all, the options are oil, LP, electric
(resistive or geothermal heat pump), or wood.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:52:56 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:43:10 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:

(Cindy Hamilton) wrote in news:O4nsu.341$wZ.31
@newsreading01.news.tds.net:

Clearly, I don't believe that gas presents a statistically significant
danger. We've had this exact discussion before, and neither
of us was convinced of the other's position.

You won't ever convince Pete of your position, because he's an anti-gas kook whose mind is
already made up.

And he won't ever convince you, or anyone else, of his position because he doesn't know
what he's talking about. There simply are not 4000+ residential gas explosions per year in the
U.S. That's something that Pete made up.

I've provided cites to the statistics, and further anyone can search
news sites to see how prevalent they are.

You're lying again. You provided no such cites.

You have provided no cites, I have.

Asshole, *YOU* are the one who is making absurd claims. It is *YOU*
who owes the world the evidence to back it up.

Go back to your mother's basement and jerk off troll.

Nah, that's the job of you lefty liars. My mother is dead, asshole.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:54:30 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/18/2013 1:55 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
In article , Pete C.
wrote:

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In article , Pete C.
wrote:
Try a heat pump (air source or geothermal depending on your
region), solar, wood or oil for heat, none of which have any
propensity of leveling the neighborhood.

Bwah, hah, hah.

Michigan.

Not enough sun.

Not going to split wood or buy pellets.

Have a perfectly functioning gas furnace which I'm not going to
abandon for a much more expensive heat pump.

I'm not going to get rid of my gas stove, grill, or water
heater, either.

Cindy Hamilton --

Geothermal heat pumps work quite nicely in cold climates.

They cost too much. My husband can install a regular forced-air
furnace.

Even if I replaced my furnace with a heat pump, I'd still have the
stove and gas grill (and possibly the water heater).

Clearly, I don't believe that gas presents a statistically
significant danger. We've had this exact discussion before, and
neither of us was convinced of the other's position.

Cindy Hamilton


I'm cooking with gas and wouldn't want it any other way. We also have
gas heat and a gas water heater. There are several electric heaters
around for spot heating. The cost of electric resistance heat is very
expensive with gas heat being the least expensive. Many years ago we had
the things called "Total Electric Homes" that were touted as the future
of the modern living with electrical power being so cheap it wouldn't
even be metered. It was assumed back then that there would be nuclear
power plants everywhere. ^_^

I never suggested electric resistive heating was recommended. Heat
pumps, air or ground source, are around 4X the efficiency of resistive
heat.

How many people die mining coal or in the electric industry, yearly,
moron? You really are a dumb**** lefty.

On 12/18/2013 8:00 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Irreverent Maximus wrote:

On 12/18/2013 10:45 AM, Pete C. wrote:

y a heat pump (air source or geothermal depending on your region),
solar, wood or oil for heat, none of which have any propensity of
leveling the neighborhood.


None of which has the propensity to economically replace NG. Heat
pumps are okay for cooling. Not much so for heating unless you
are very lucky. Still cost $$.

Geothermal heat pumps work very efficiently in nearly every climate. Air
source heat pumps are only for moderate climates, but are cheaper to
install than geothermal. You need to take another look for up to date
information.


Geothermal will not work where I live. A heat pump will not get my
house to a comfortable temperature. As I stated, cooling...maybe.
I also stated economical, not "if" possible.

Solar: Joke.

Hardly, it's very effective in moderate climates, and even in more
severe climates it's still effective at reducing the costs of heating
overall even if it can't provide 100%.

Solar works only when their is adequate sun light. Getting a range to
work off of solar, or geothermal, = impossible


Wood: Really?

All throughout the northeast, northwest and various other areas. There
are many thousands who heat exclusively with wood.

Yes. I *used* to be one of those types. Hell, I even lived 100% off
grid for awhile. Convenience is never underated by me.


Oil: Cost versus NG?

That varies of course. With the current NG glut oil is more per BTU, but
in the northeast where a large percentage of the population doesn't have
NG service available at all, the options are oil, LP, electric
(resistive or geothermal heat pump), or wood.

Oil, though functional, is something I let those in the Northeast worry
about. They get screwed every winter. I like that sometimes. Yanks
irk me at times. :-)

Oil still cost too much.

On 12/18/2013 1:04 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

Bwah, hah, hah.

Michigan.

Not enough sun.

Not going to split wood or buy pellets.

Have a perfectly functioning gas furnace which I'm not going to abandon
for a much more expensive heat pump.

I'm not going to get rid of my gas stove, grill, or water heater,
either.

Cindy Hamilton

Can't do that. Some one on Usenet said it would
blow up your house, like 4,000 others every year.

Other than one or two news paper reports from years
ago, I can't say as I've heard of one.




--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/18/2013 1:33 PM, Pete C. wrote:


Where does it say "explosions", Pete?

Nowhere.

It says "fires".

Clearly you lack the intelligence to understand the dynamics of gaseous
fueled fire incidents. Go back to high school science class.

You are rapidly losing credibility.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/18/2013 3:28 PM, Pete C. wrote:

4,000 per year = about 1per 80,000 population per year in the U.S. -- which would translate to
about 20 gas explosions per year in metropolitan Indianapolis where I live, or roughly one
every two and a half weeks.

That doesn't happen, Pete.

The NFPA says otherwise.


Wonder how that works out, for cities in NYS?
Albany, Syracuse, Binghamton, etc.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/18/2013 11:41 AM, Pete C. wrote:

There is nothing safe about gas:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf


Safer than electricity
http://esfi.org/index.cfm/page/Home-...ires/pid/12854

On 12/18/2013 11:45 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote in :

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.


You can't find something that isn't there....

Try again:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf


Did you read it Looks like four years to me, plus you math is wrong.
U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated annual average of 2,110
home* structure fires in which natural gas was the type of material
first ignited and 1,170 in which material ignited was LP-Gas in 2003-2007.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:00:06 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

All throughout the northeast, northwest and various other areas. There
are many thousands who heat exclusively with wood.


Not exactly true and a supposition on your part. Burning wood is
illegal in my town; unless your home was grand fathered in when the
ordnance was passed.

We use "gas", which is "safe"!

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:23:02 -0600, Irreverent Maximus
wrote:

Solar works only when their is adequate sun light. Getting a range to
work off of solar, or geothermal, = impossible

My stove top needs "gas".

Safe, efficient, and clean burring fuel

On 12/18/2013 9:13 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:00:06 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

All throughout the northeast, northwest and various other areas. There
are many thousands who heat exclusively with wood.


Not exactly true and a supposition on your part. Burning wood is
illegal in my town; unless your home was grand fathered in when the
ordnance was passed.

We use "gas", which is "safe"!


LOL! True enough. I did not even think of that angle. I hear that
there are places where they have, or are trying to, ban using barbeques.

On 12/18/2013 9:21 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:23:02 -0600, Irreverent Maximus
wrote:

Solar works only when their is adequate sun light. Getting a range to
work off of solar, or geothermal, = impossible

My stove top needs "gas".

Safe, efficient, and clean burring fuel


Isn't that clean anti-burring fuel? :-)

On 12/18/2013 9:23 PM, Irreverent Maximus wrote:

LOL! True enough. I did not even think of that angle. I hear that
there are places where they have, or are trying to, ban using barbeques.

More precisely, "Kingsford" type. Though, I imagine the will be after
propane, soon.

On 12/18/2013 08:46 PM, Pete C. wrote:
I didn't say it was a leading cause of deaths. It is a significant
hazard, and if you are one of the ~9 daily victims of a gas fueled
fire/explosion and loose your home, you'll consider it a significant
hazard as well.

If we lower the highway speed limits nationwide by 20 MPH, we'll save lives.

And if we lower the speed limits another 20 MPH, we'll save even more lives.

Heck, let's lower all speed limits to 15 MPH so virtually no one is ever injured in a car.

Think of the children, aren't their precious little lives worth it?

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/18/2013 11:45 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote in :

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.


You can't find something that isn't there....

Try again:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf


Did you read it Looks like four years to me, plus you math is wrong.
U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated annual average of 2,110
home* structure fires in which natural gas was the type of material first
ignited and 1,170 in which material ignited was LP-Gas in 2003-2007.

Note the words "average annual".

It's poorly written, but it looks like they mean that over the period from
2003-2007 the _average annual_ number of fires was 2110 + 1170.

wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:37:38 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry W wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote in
:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.


You can't find something that isn't there....

Try again:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

That NFPA site says the annual average for deaths due to combined natural
and LP gas accidents is 77, with an additional 287 injuries.
Contrast that with the Electrical Safety Foundation (just happened to
be the first credible site returned in a quick google search) which states
that home electrical distribution and lighting system fires are the
4th leading cause of home fires, causing about 50,900 each year,
averaging 490 deaths and 1,440 injuries.

http://www.esfi.org/index.cfm/page/F...tics/pid/12014

So maybe we really should ban electricity from homes since it is so
much more dangerous than gas...

Or perhaps we do something intelligent like mandate gas detectors just
like we mandate smoke detectors? It's pretty sad that gas detectors have
been standard in the RV industry for years while they still aren't
required for residences using explosive fuels.

Perhaps because there have been so damned few problems it's not
economically justified. Idiot.

And there it is folks...krw's version of the hat trick.

He finally got all three of his favorite words into the thread: liar, lefty
and idiot.

It was only a matter of time.

On 12/18/2013 9:54 PM, Gustavus wrote:
On 12/18/2013 08:46 PM, Pete C. wrote:
I didn't say it was a leading cause of deaths. It is a significant
hazard, and if you are one of the ~9 daily victims of a gas fueled
fire/explosion and loose your home, you'll consider it a significant
hazard as well.

If we lower the highway speed limits nationwide by 20 MPH, we'll save
lives.

And if we lower the speed limits another 20 MPH, we'll save even more
lives.

Heck, let's lower all speed limits to 15 MPH so virtually no one is ever
injured in a car.

Think of the children, aren't their precious little lives worth it?



That is not good enough. Cars must be banned. Heck, everything from
fire onward should be banned. It all is a hazard and is not eco-
friendly. Even stone implements! Clubs! Beer! Boobs! Fornication!

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:25:19 -0600, Irreverent Maximus
wrote:

My stove top needs "gas".

Safe, efficient, and clean burring fuel


Isn't that clean anti-burring fuel? :-)

....smart ass

On 12/18/2013 10:11 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:25:19 -0600, Irreverent Maximus
wrote:

My stove top needs "gas".

Safe, efficient, and clean burring fuel


Isn't that clean anti-burring fuel? :-)

....smart ass


Glad to be of service...

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:46:09 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/18/2013 1:33 PM, Pete C. wrote:


Where does it say "explosions", Pete?

Nowhere.

It says "fires".

Clearly you lack the intelligence to understand the dynamics of gaseous
fueled fire incidents. Go back to high school science class.

You are rapidly losing credibility.

Clarify and define "rapidly".

On 12/18/2013 7:19 PM, YouraPeon And A Sock Of Killer Loon wrote:
On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 12:18:57 PM UTC-5, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 12/17/2013 8:52 AM, dpb wrote:

On 12/17/2013 8:41 AM, Pete C. wrote: ...

... Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, ...

Nonsense. It does require a certain level of care, however, but
so does electricity and any other energy source. Consider the
number of residences and miles of pipeline that _didn't_ "go
boom". All of the incidents you describe were the result of an
error of commission or omission -- lack of maintenance is
certainly a problem that needs addressing on older lines, that is
true.

5 children and 3 adults have been injured and are hospitalized. 1
woman was found dead in the rubble. I feel for the poor folks
especially the children. I don't like it when children are hurt.
o_O

TDD

Phony capitalist bag of **** hiding behind nurseries.


Killer Loon, you're not fooling anyone with your nymshifting. Your news
client gives you away every time you post as does your writing style. ^_^

TDD

On 12/18/2013 7:40 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:33:29 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/18/2013 7:38 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in
news:52b122a4$0$47940$862e30e2 @ngroups.net:


They used to market nat gas as "clean, safe, dependable", now it's
just "clean and dependable", do you think they dropped "safe" for
no reason?

More bull****. It's still marketed as safe:
http://www.citizensenergygroup.com/Energy.aspx

"safe and reliable ... clean-burning"


In Birmingham about 10 years ago a steam pipe from the steam plant
operated by Alabama Power ruptured and boiled a couple of people in
their parked car. The plant dates back to 1895 and Birmingham isn't
that old as most large cities go but there are very old pipes and wires
running under our streets that can fail at any time.

Basically, every source of energy we use is dangerous in some way or another

Some more so than others.

Certainly, and we've shown that gas is even safer than electricity.
It's cheaper, too. What's not to like?


You can't smell an electrical leak. ^_^

TDD

On 12/18/2013 7:37 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Larry W wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote in
:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.


You can't find something that isn't there....

Try again:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

That NFPA site says the annual average for deaths due to combined natural
and LP gas accidents is 77, with an additional 287 injuries.
Contrast that with the Electrical Safety Foundation (just happened to
be the first credible site returned in a quick google search) which states
that home electrical distribution and lighting system fires are the
4th leading cause of home fires, causing about 50,900 each year,
averaging 490 deaths and 1,440 injuries.

http://www.esfi.org/index.cfm/page/F...tics/pid/12014

So maybe we really should ban electricity from homes since it is so
much more dangerous than gas...

Or perhaps we do something intelligent like mandate gas detectors just
like we mandate smoke detectors? It's pretty sad that gas detectors have
been standard in the RV industry for years while they still aren't
required for residences using explosive fuels.


Most homes don't have wheels, well some of them do if the wheels aren't
removed when they're setup. RV's bounce up and down the road when they
travel so vibration and G forces affect the gas equipment them. That
doesn't happen with a fixed home unless you're in an earthquake belt
where the gas meters will automatically shut off if pipes are broken.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_Valve

TDD

On 12/18/2013 7:54 PM, Pete C. wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/18/2013 1:55 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
In article , Pete C.
wrote:

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In article , Pete C.
wrote:
Try a heat pump (air source or geothermal depending on your
region), solar, wood or oil for heat, none of which have any
propensity of leveling the neighborhood.

Bwah, hah, hah.

Michigan.

Not enough sun.

Not going to split wood or buy pellets.

Have a perfectly functioning gas furnace which I'm not going to
abandon for a much more expensive heat pump.

I'm not going to get rid of my gas stove, grill, or water
heater, either.

Cindy Hamilton --

Geothermal heat pumps work quite nicely in cold climates.

They cost too much. My husband can install a regular forced-air
furnace.

Even if I replaced my furnace with a heat pump, I'd still have the
stove and gas grill (and possibly the water heater).

Clearly, I don't believe that gas presents a statistically
significant danger. We've had this exact discussion before, and
neither of us was convinced of the other's position.

Cindy Hamilton


I'm cooking with gas and wouldn't want it any other way. We also have
gas heat and a gas water heater. There are several electric heaters
around for spot heating. The cost of electric resistance heat is very
expensive with gas heat being the least expensive. Many years ago we had
the things called "Total Electric Homes" that were touted as the future
of the modern living with electrical power being so cheap it wouldn't
even be metered. It was assumed back then that there would be nuclear
power plants everywhere. ^_^

I never suggested electric resistive heating was recommended. Heat
pumps, air or ground source, are around 4X the efficiency of resistive
heat.

My aunt's home back in the 50's was a modern "Total Electric Home" that
had built in electric wall heaters in every room. I still don't have my
own nuclear reactor under the house along with my flying car in the
driveway. ^_^

TDD

On 12/18/2013 7:19 PM, Irreverent Maximus wrote:
On 12/18/2013 10:45 AM, Pete C. wrote:

y a heat pump (air source or geothermal depending on your region),
solar, wood or oil for heat, none of which have any propensity of
leveling the neighborhood.


None of which has the propensity to economically replace NG. Heat
pumps are okay for cooling. Not much so for heating unless you
are very lucky. Still cost $$.

Solar: Joke.

Wood: Really?

Oil: Cost versus NG?

Alabama Gas sold and installed natural gas powered air conditioners here
in the state years ago and I knew a guy who still had one back in the
90's. ^_^

TDD

On 12/18/2013 9:25 PM, Irreverent Maximus wrote:
On 12/18/2013 9:21 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:23:02 -0600, Irreverent Maximus
wrote:

Solar works only when their is adequate sun light. Getting a range to
work off of solar, or geothermal, = impossible

My stove top needs "gas".

Safe, efficient, and clean burring fuel


Isn't that clean anti-burring fuel? :-)

I wonder if gas puts a burr under his saddle? ^_^

TDD

On 12/18/2013 5:14 PM, G. Morgan wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 12/18/2013 7:14 AM, G. Morgan wrote:
Daring Dufas : Hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare wrote:

X-Received: by 10.58.137.135 with SMTP id
qi7mr8875905veb.25.1387293912724; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:25:12 -0800
(PST) X-Received: by 10.182.204.9 with SMTP id
ku9mr158572obc.10.1387293912683; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:25:12 -0800
(PST)

Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com;
posting-host=75.108.241.151;
posting-account=1dF1SAoAAAA3WOMInGziQSECVpXz0Dfq NNTP-Posting-Host:
75.108.241.151 User-Agent: G2/1.0 Message-ID:
Subject:
KABOOB!! A Gas Explosion Close To Home From: "Daring Dufas :
Hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare"


We now know the freeloader hypocrite lives in a southern redneck,
racist ******** - that explains a lot.

75.108.241.151 Conroe, Texas, US

What was that about southern ********s?


Most folks have killfiled Killer Loon the nymshifting freak who is using
part of my nym. It's one of my fanboys who followed me here from another
group in an attempt to stir up trouble. I don't killfile anyone,
I just laugh at them as they get more and more desperate to draw
attention to themselves. ^_^

Your fan boi is too dumb to use a real newsreader... wow. They hardly
ever show that level of dumb.


Its news client gives it away as does its writing style. Now it's using
"YouraPeon" here and in other groups. P.L.L.C.F. are so goofy. ^_^

TDD

On 12/18/2013 11:06 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Killer Loon, you're not fooling anyone with your nymshifting. Your news
client gives you away every time you post as does your writing style. ^_^

TDD

He didn't change his email. My KF still works.