"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1231f$0$47829$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

Gordon Shumway wrote in
:

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 09:41:03 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:
Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season,

Bull****.

Just search the reports. I posted the actual stats from NFPA or some
such some time ago and it was something like 4,000+ residential gas
explosions per year.

Bull****.

4,000 per year = about 1per 80,000 population per year in the U.S. -- which would translate to
about 20 gas explosions per year in metropolitan Indianapolis where I live, or roughly one
every two and a half weeks.

That doesn't happen, Pete.

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b12368$0$48008$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Larry W wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned
out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It
destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families
and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults
to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.
The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking
other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was
messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding
up with a gas leak. o_O

TDD

Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season, and even outside heating season they seem to be at least
monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, and is even
dangerous in industrial settings - recall the gas pipeline explosion in
CA, the gas explosion at the power plant under construction in CT, a gas
pipeline explosion under and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.

Far more people have been killed in fires caused by electrical wiring and
device defects than by gas explosions or gas asphyxiation. Perhaps
electricity simply isn't safe for residential use either.

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.

Cite?

Stormin Mormon wrote in :

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.


You can't find something that isn't there....

In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:

4,000 per year = about 1per 80,000 population per year in the U.S. -- which
would translate to
about 20 gas explosions per year in metropolitan Indianapolis where I live,
or roughly one
every two and a half weeks.

That doesn't happen, Pete.

Great conspiracy that covers this up....
--
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.²
‹ Aaron Levenstein

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b122a4$0$47940$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


They used to market nat gas as "clean, safe, dependable", now it's just
"clean and dependable", do you think they dropped "safe" for no reason?

More bull****. It's still marketed as safe: http://www.citizensenergygroup.com/Energy.aspx

"safe and reliable ... clean-burning"

On 12/17/2013 11:27 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
On 12-17-2013, 16:04, dpb wrote:
While unfortunate, do we now not do any more tonsillectomies?

We do far fewer than we used to. Not because they are dangerous, but
because they are usually unnecessary.


Now more people get tonsil stones. ^_^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonsillolith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLStX-t4tqI

TDD

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned
out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It
destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families
and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults
to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.
The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking
other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was
messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding
up with a gas leak. o_O

TDD

Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season, and even outside heating season they seem to be at least
monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, and is even
dangerous in industrial settings - recall the gas pipeline explosion in
CA, the gas explosion at the power plant under construction in CT, a gas
pipeline explosion under and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.

I'll be damned if I'll pay for electricity to heat my house. Bring
on the explosions!

Cindy Hamilton
--

On 12/17/2013 8:54 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
"Larry W" wrote in message
...
In article , Pete C.
wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and
it turned out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a
mile from me. It destroyed a two story brick apartment building
containing two families and several children were sent to
Childrens Hospital and several adults to another hospital. The
report is that two adults are unaccounted for. The explosion
leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking other
buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was
messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working
then winding up with a gas leak. o_O

TDD

Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US
during heating season, and even outside heating season they seem
to be at least monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential
use, and is even dangerous in industrial settings - recall the
gas pipeline explosion in CA, the gas explosion at the power
plant under construction in CT, a gas pipeline explosion under
and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.

Far more people have been killed in fires caused by electrical
wiring and device defects than by gas explosions or gas
asphyxiation. Perhaps electricity simply isn't safe for residential
use either.

This reminds me of the gas company vs electric company battles in the
late 19th century when they were both fighting for control of the
lighting market.


If you've ever wondered why rigid electrical conduit is so much like the
pipe used for plumbing, think about what happened many years ago when
folks switched from gas lighting to electric lights. The wire was
probably pulled in through the gas pipes to the converted gas light
fixtures. ^_^

TDD

There is nothing safe about gas:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.

Here is one of their reports:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

They reorganized their site and it's a bit difficult to find things now.
There should be a gashomefactsheet.pdf and a gasnonhomefactsheet.pdf out
there as well.

Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b12368$0$48008$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Larry W wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned
out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It
destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families
and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults
to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.
The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking
other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was
messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding
up with a gas leak. o_O

TDD

Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season, and even outside heating season they seem to be at least
monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, and is even
dangerous in industrial settings - recall the gas pipeline explosion in
CA, the gas explosion at the power plant under construction in CT, a gas
pipeline explosion under and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.

Far more people have been killed in fires caused by electrical wiring and
device defects than by gas explosions or gas asphyxiation. Perhaps
electricity simply isn't safe for residential use either.

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.

Cite?

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

They reorganized their site and their search engine sucks. There should
also be gashomefactsheet.pdf and gasnonhomefactsheet.pdf out there as
well.

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned
out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It
destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families
and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults
to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.
The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking
other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was
messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding
up with a gas leak. o_O

TDD

Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season, and even outside heating season they seem to be at least
monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, and is even
dangerous in industrial settings - recall the gas pipeline explosion in
CA, the gas explosion at the power plant under construction in CT, a gas
pipeline explosion under and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.

I'll be damned if I'll pay for electricity to heat my house. Bring
on the explosions!

Try a heat pump (air source or geothermal depending on your region),
solar, wood or oil for heat, none of which have any propensity of
leveling the neighborhood.

Doug Miller wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote in :

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.


You can't find something that isn't there....

Try again:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1cffc$0$47853$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

Hmmm... that shows a total of 3380 fires in a five-year period. That's a long way from your
bull**** claim of 4000+ explosions per year.

3380 fires in 5 years = 676 per year. In a nation with a population of over 300 million.

Total of 77 fatalities = 15 per year, which makes gas safer than swimming or climbing ladders.

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d042$0$47758$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.

Here is one of their reports:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

And it doesn't show "4000+ residential gas explosions per year", does it?

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d0a7$0$47758$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b12368$0$48008$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Larry W wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned
out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It
destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families
and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults
to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.
The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking
other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was
messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding
up with a gas leak. o_O

TDD

Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season, and even outside heating season they seem to be at least
monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, and is even
dangerous in industrial settings - recall the gas pipeline explosion in
CA, the gas explosion at the power plant under construction in CT, a gas
pipeline explosion under and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.

Far more people have been killed in fires caused by electrical wiring and
device defects than by gas explosions or gas asphyxiation. Perhaps
electricity simply isn't safe for residential use either.

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.

Cite?

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

They reorganized their site and their search engine sucks. There should
also be gashomefactsheet.pdf and gasnonhomefactsheet.pdf out there as
well.


That doesn't support your bull**** claim of "4000+ residential gas explosions per year".

"Pete C." wrote in
:


Doug Miller wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote in
:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some
good ones showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per
year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.


You can't find something that isn't there....

Try again:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...heets/gasfacts
heet.pdf

*You* try again.

Where does that say "4000+ residential gas explosions per year",
Pete? Nowhere.

Because that claim is bull****. That document shows 3380 *fires*
(not explosions) in a *five year* period. Not 4000 explosions. Not
per year.

Like I said: you can't something that isn't there.

Are you a personal injury lawyer, by any chance?

Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d0a7$0$47758$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b12368$0$48008$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Larry W wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned
out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It
destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families
and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults
to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.
The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking
other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was
messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding
up with a gas leak. o_O

TDD

Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season, and even outside heating season they seem to be at least
monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, and is even
dangerous in industrial settings - recall the gas pipeline explosion in
CA, the gas explosion at the power plant under construction in CT, a gas
pipeline explosion under and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.

Far more people have been killed in fires caused by electrical wiring and
device defects than by gas explosions or gas asphyxiation. Perhaps
electricity simply isn't safe for residential use either.

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.

Cite?

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

They reorganized their site and their search engine sucks. There should
also be gashomefactsheet.pdf and gasnonhomefactsheet.pdf out there as
well.


That doesn't support your bull**** claim of "4000+ residential gas explosions per year".

3,280 my recollection was close enough since the last time I looked it
up was in 2010.

Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d042$0$47758$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.

Here is one of their reports:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

And it doesn't show "4000+ residential gas explosions per year", does it?

3,280 give or take, nearly 9 per day on average. Close enough given the
last time I looked it up was in 2010.

Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in
:


Doug Miller wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote in
:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some
good ones showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per
year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.


You can't find something that isn't there....

Try again:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...heets/gasfacts
heet.pdf

*You* try again.

Where does that say "4000+ residential gas explosions per year",
Pete? Nowhere.

Because that claim is bull****. That document shows 3380 *fires*
(not explosions) in a *five year* period. Not 4000 explosions. Not
per year.

Like I said: you can't something that isn't there.

Are you a personal injury lawyer, by any chance?

They don't differentiate fires with or without explosions. As well all
know, most gas incidents start with a leak and it takes some time before
the gas finds an ignition source, so it is quite reasonable to presume
that most of those incidents included an explosion of some size.

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d911$0$13735$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d0a7$0$47758$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b12368$0$48008$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Larry W wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned
out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It
destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families
and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults
to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.
The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking
other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was
messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding
up with a gas leak. o_O

TDD

Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season, and even outside heating season they seem to be at least
monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, and is even
dangerous in industrial settings - recall the gas pipeline explosion in
CA, the gas explosion at the power plant under construction in CT, a gas
pipeline explosion under and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.

Far more people have been killed in fires caused by electrical wiring and
device defects than by gas explosions or gas asphyxiation. Perhaps
electricity simply isn't safe for residential use either.

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.

Cite?

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

They reorganized their site and their search engine sucks. There should
also be gashomefactsheet.pdf and gasnonhomefactsheet.pdf out there as
well.


That doesn't support your bull**** claim of "4000+ residential gas explosions per year".

3,280 my recollection was close enough since the last time I looked it
up was in 2010.

Where does it say "explosions", Pete?

Nowhere.

It says "fires".

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d95c$0$47920$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d042$0$47758$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.

Here is one of their reports:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

And it doesn't show "4000+ residential gas explosions per year", does it?

3,280 give or take, nearly 9 per day on average. Close enough given the
last time I looked it up was in 2010.

Where does it say "explosions", Pete?

Nowhere.

It says "fires".

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:50:03 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1cffc$0$47853$862e30e2
:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

Hmmm... that shows a total of 3380 fires in a five-year period. That's a long way from your
bull**** claim of 4000+ explosions per year.

3380 fires in 5 years = 676 per year. In a nation with a population of over 300 million.

Total of 77 fatalities = 15 per year, which makes gas safer than swimming or climbing ladders.

Swimming pools, hell, that makes gas heat safer than 5-gallon buckets
(somewhere between 10 and 40 drown in 5-gallon buckets each year).

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 06:08:05 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/17/2013 9:54 PM, Guv Bob wrote:

Far more people have been killed in fires caused by electrical wiring and
device defects than by gas explosions or gas asphyxiation. Perhaps
electricity simply isn't safe for residential use either.

This reminds me of the gas company vs electric
company battles in the late 19th century when they
? were both fighting for control of the lighting market.


Do you also remember all the safety concerns about
motor cars, and how they needed someone on foot with
a red flag, ahead. To not scare the horses.

No, I don't remember those days, Stormin'.

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 23:24:59 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry W wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

At 2:30am the house shook like it would from a sonic boom and it turned
out to be a gas explosion in a neighborhood within a mile from me. It
destroyed a two story brick apartment building containing two families
and several children were sent to Childrens Hospital and several adults
to another hospital. The report is that two adults are unaccounted for.
The explosion leveled the building sending bricks into the air striking
other buildings and breaking a lot of windows. I think somebody was
messing with a gas line, trying to get a gas heater working then winding
up with a gas leak. o_O

TDD

Hardly a day goes by without a gas explosion somewhere in the US during
heating season, and even outside heating season they seem to be at least
monthly. Gas simply isn't safe for residential use, and is even
dangerous in industrial settings - recall the gas pipeline explosion in
CA, the gas explosion at the power plant under construction in CT, a gas
pipeline explosion under and apt building in NJ I think it was, etc.

Far more people have been killed in fires caused by electrical wiring and
device defects than by gas explosions or gas asphyxiation. Perhaps
electricity simply isn't safe for residential use either.

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.

You're a liar.

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d9be$0$47869$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in
:


Doug Miller wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote in
:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some
good ones showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per
year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.


You can't find something that isn't there....

Try again:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...heets/gasfacts
heet.pdf

*You* try again.

Where does that say "4000+ residential gas explosions per year",
Pete? Nowhere.

Because that claim is bull****. That document shows 3380 *fires*
(not explosions) in a *five year* period. Not 4000 explosions. Not
per year.

Like I said: you can't something that isn't there.

Are you a personal injury lawyer, by any chance?

They don't differentiate fires with or without explosions.

And so you assume that *all* of those fires were "explosions".

Bull****.

Look at the details, specifically:
-- "... in which natural gas was the type of material first ignited", a category which clearly
includes fires that occur while cooking on a gas stove
-- "Leading equipment involved: Stove"
-- "Leading area of origin: Kitchen"

All of which leads to the obvious conclusion that the problem is careless cooking, not the
fuel used for doing so.

Obvious, that is, to anyone who doesn't have an a priori bias and an axe to grind.

As well all
know, most gas incidents start with a leak

Bull**** again. As CLEARLY indicated in the document that YOU cited, most residential gas-
related fires started as cooking fires, not leaks. That document doesn't say anything at all
about leaks.

Or explosions.

and it takes some time before
the gas finds an ignition source,

You mean like the cook turning on the burner? That's included in the category of "natural
gas [is] the material first ignited."

so it is quite reasonable to presume
that most of those incidents included an explosion of some size.

No, it is not at all reasonable to assume that, for the reason I just explained above. And
that's all it is: an assumption on your part, completely unsupported. That document says
NOTHING about explosions, Pete. Nothing at all. It's talking about *fires*.

Your claim of 4000+ residential gas explosions per year is complete bull****, totally without
foundation. As I noted in an earlier post, if the rate were that high, we'd be seeing one about
every 2.5 weeks here in the Indianapolis area. The last gas *explosion* I remember
hearing about was about a year ago -- a deliberately set insurance fraud. If there really
were over 4000 explosions per year in the U.S., we'd have had at least twenty more since
then.

That. Just. Doesn't. Happen.

Doug Miller wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in
:


Doug Miller wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote in
:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some
good ones showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per
year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.


You can't find something that isn't there....

Try again:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...heets/gasfacts
heet.pdf

*You* try again.

As long as everyone is trying so hard, I'll give it a try. ;-)


Where does that say "4000+ residential gas explosions per year",
Pete? Nowhere.

Because that claim is bull****. That document shows 3380 *fires*

2110 gas + 1170 LP = 3280. A very minor nit.

(not explosions) in a *five year* period. Not 4000 explosions. Not
per year.

Actually, that PDF says "estimated annual average" of 3280 in 2003-2007.

True, it's not 4000, and it's not explosions, but is "per year", at least
the way I understand "annual average".


Like I said: you can't something that isn't there.

Are you a personal injury lawyer, by any chance?

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

Actually, that PDF says "estimated annual average" of 3280 in 2003-2007.

True, it's not 4000, and it's not explosions, but is "per year", at least
the way I understand "annual average".

You're right, I missed that phrase.

OK, it's per year. But it still says fires, not explosions.

The claim of 4000+ residential gas explosions per year is complete bull****.

Doug Miller wrote:

....snip...


Look at the details, specifically:
-- "... in which natural gas was the type of material first ignited", a
category which clearly
includes fires that occur while cooking on a gas stove
-- "Leading equipment involved: Stove"
-- "Leading area of origin: Kitchen"

Why did you leave off the last line?

-- leading factor contributing to ignition: Leak or Break



All of which leads to the obvious conclusion that the problem is careless cooking, not the
fuel used for doing so.

Obvious, that is, to anyone who doesn't have an a priori bias and an axe to grind.

As well all
know, most gas incidents start with a leak

Bull**** again. As CLEARLY indicated in the document that YOU cited, most residential gas-
related fires started as cooking fires, not leaks. That document doesn't
say anything at all
about leaks.

Which document are you reading? The one I am looking at specifically says
"Leading factor contributing to ignition: leak or break"

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

....snip...

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

Doug Miller wrote:

...snip...


Look at the details, specifically:
-- "... in which natural gas was the type of material first ignited", a
category which clearly
includes fires that occur while cooking on a gas stove
-- "Leading equipment involved: Stove"
-- "Leading area of origin: Kitchen"

Why did you leave off the last line?

-- leading factor contributing to ignition: Leak or Break

Leak includes a burner that's not burning.



All of which leads to the obvious conclusion that the problem is careless cooking, not the
fuel used for doing so.

Obvious, that is, to anyone who doesn't have an a priori bias and an axe to grind.

As well all
know, most gas incidents start with a leak

Bull**** again. As CLEARLY indicated in the document that YOU cited, most residential
gas-
related fires started as cooking fires, not leaks. That document doesn't
say anything at all
about leaks.

Which document are you reading? The one I am looking at specifically says
"Leading factor contributing to ignition: leak or break"

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

...snip...

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:
Try a heat pump (air source or geothermal depending on your region),
solar, wood or oil for heat, none of which have any propensity of
leveling the neighborhood.

Bwah, hah, hah.

Michigan.

Not enough sun.

Not going to split wood or buy pellets.

Have a perfectly functioning gas furnace which I'm not going to abandon
for a much more expensive heat pump.

I'm not going to get rid of my gas stove, grill, or water heater,
either.

Cindy Hamilton
--

Doug Miller wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

Doug Miller wrote:

...snip...


Look at the details, specifically:
-- "... in which natural gas was the type of material first ignited", a
category which clearly
includes fires that occur while cooking on a gas stove
-- "Leading equipment involved: Stove"
-- "Leading area of origin: Kitchen"

Why did you leave off the last line?

-- leading factor contributing to ignition: Leak or Break

Leak includes a burner that's not burning.



All of which leads to the obvious conclusion that the problem is
careless cooking, not the
fuel used for doing so.

Obvious, that is, to anyone who doesn't have an a priori bias and an axe to grind.

As well all
know, most gas incidents start with a leak

Bull**** again. As CLEARLY indicated in the document that YOU cited, most residential
gas-
related fires started as cooking fires, not leaks. That document doesn't
say anything at all
about leaks.

Which document are you reading? The one I am looking at specifically says
"Leading factor contributing to ignition: leak or break"

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

...snip...


That doesn't explain why you said "That document doesn't say anything at
all about leaks." For both LP and nat gas it says the leading contributing
factor was leaks and breaks.

I'm not pushing back (or forth) on the safety of gas, I'm simply trying to
determine if we are looking at the same document because I'm seeing
statements in the doc that I'm reading that don't coincide with what you
are saying.

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:
Try a heat pump (air source or geothermal depending on your region),
solar, wood or oil for heat, none of which have any propensity of
leveling the neighborhood.

Bwah, hah, hah.

Michigan.

Not enough sun.

Not going to split wood or buy pellets.

Have a perfectly functioning gas furnace which I'm not going to abandon
for a much more expensive heat pump.

I'm not going to get rid of my gas stove, grill, or water heater,
either.

Cindy Hamilton
--

Geothermal heat pumps work quite nicely in cold climates.

Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d95c$0$47920$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d042$0$47758$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.

Here is one of their reports:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

And it doesn't show "4000+ residential gas explosions per year", does it?

3,280 give or take, nearly 9 per day on average. Close enough given the
last time I looked it up was in 2010.

Where does it say "explosions", Pete?

Nowhere.

It says "fires".

Clearly you lack the intelligence to understand the dynamics of gaseous
fueled fire incidents. Go back to high school science class.

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1ea57$0$47753$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d95c$0$47920$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Doug Miller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in news:52b1d042$0$47758$862e30e2
@ngroups.net:


Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 12/17/2013 11:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Have you looked at the actual stats? I believe NFPA has some good ones
showing 4,000+ residential gas explosions per year.


I'd sure like to see a URL. I did a search, including NFPA
web site, and can't find that stat.

Here is one of their reports:

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/re...sfactsheet.pdf

And it doesn't show "4000+ residential gas explosions per year", does it?

3,280 give or take, nearly 9 per day on average. Close enough given the
last time I looked it up was in 2010.

Where does it say "explosions", Pete?

Nowhere.

It says "fires".

Clearly you lack the intelligence to understand the dynamics of gaseous
fueled fire incidents. Go back to high school science class.

Clearly you lack the intelligence to differentiate between your assumptions and actual facts.

And it actually is you who lacks the understanding of "gaseous fueled fire incidents", not
me. Nowhere nearly all such incidents are explosions; most are merely fires. You're clearly
unaware that for an explosion to occur, the fuel/air ratio must fall into a fairly narrow band.

If there were actually that many explosions, don't you imagine it would *say* explosions?

There's a *reason* the document talks about fires, not explosions.

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

That doesn't explain why you said "That document doesn't say anything at
all about leaks." For both LP and nat gas it says the leading contributing
factor was leaks and breaks.

I didn't read it as carefully as I should have; I was mistaken about leaks.

But not about explosions vs. fires.

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In article ,
Pete C. wrote:
Try a heat pump (air source or geothermal depending on your region),
solar, wood or oil for heat, none of which have any propensity of
leveling the neighborhood.

Bwah, hah, hah.

Michigan.

Not enough sun.

Not going to split wood or buy pellets.

Have a perfectly functioning gas furnace which I'm not going to abandon
for a much more expensive heat pump.

I'm not going to get rid of my gas stove, grill, or water heater,
either.

Cindy Hamilton
--

Geothermal heat pumps work quite nicely in cold climates.

They cost too much. My husband can install a regular forced-air
furnace.

Even if I replaced my furnace with a heat pump, I'd still have the
stove and gas grill (and possibly the water heater).

Clearly, I don't believe that gas presents a statistically significant
danger. We've had this exact discussion before, and neither
of us was convinced of the other's position.

Cindy Hamilton
--

Doug Miller wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

That doesn't explain why you said "That document doesn't say anything at
all about leaks." For both LP and nat gas it says the leading contributing
factor was leaks and breaks.

I didn't read it as carefully as I should have; I was mistaken about leaks.

But not about explosions vs. fires.

This is just a question...

When I light my stove, the gas comes from the burner head, a spark ignites
the flowing (and floating) gas, things go POOF! and the burner is lit.

Isn't that an explosion prior to the fire?

If there is a gas leak in my gas pipe and a sparks causes that gas to
ignite and my kitchen catches on fire, can we not equate the 3280 fires
with "explosions", or at least some of them? An explosion doesn't mean the
house has to be lifted off the foundation.

Seems to me that there are two ways to have fire with a gas leak as the
initial cause: a flame applied directly to the leak or a spark causing a
(minor) explosion POOF! and then a resulting fire. Seems like there would
be more POOFs before a fire caused by a gas leak than direct contact with a
flame.

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

Doug Miller wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

That doesn't explain why you said "That document doesn't say anything at
all about leaks." For both LP and nat gas it says the leading contributing
factor was leaks and breaks.

I didn't read it as carefully as I should have; I was mistaken about leaks.

But not about explosions vs. fires.

This is just a question...

When I light my stove, the gas comes from the burner head, a spark ignites
the flowing (and floating) gas, things go POOF! and the burner is lit.

Isn't that an explosion prior to the fire?

Not really, no.

If there is a gas leak in my gas pipe and a sparks causes that gas to
ignite and my kitchen catches on fire, can we not equate the 3280 fires
with "explosions", or at least some of them? An explosion doesn't mean the
house has to be lifted off the foundation.

Some of them, probably. All of them? Or even nearly all? Then the document would be
talking about explosions, not fires. Explosions can occur only in a fairly narrow range of
fuel/air mixtures; either little fuel or too little oxygen, and combustion will not be sufficiently
rapid to produce an explosion.

(Cindy Hamilton) wrote in news:O4nsu.341$wZ.31
@newsreading01.news.tds.net:

Clearly, I don't believe that gas presents a statistically significant
danger. We've had this exact discussion before, and neither
of us was convinced of the other's position.

You won't ever convince Pete of your position, because he's an anti-gas kook whose mind is
already made up.

And he won't ever convince you, or anyone else, of his position because he doesn't know
what he's talking about. There simply are not 4000+ residential gas explosions per year in the
U.S. That's something that Pete made up.