On 10/13/2013 8:29 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 21:06:37 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 10/13/2013 4:06 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:15:48 -0500, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work
hours needed to buy given items.

In '59, a bank would give you a toaster just for opening a banking
account

Now they give you a bank if you buy a toaster?


No, no, no. Now they foreclose on the toaster?


Does this foreclosed home come with a toaster? ^_^

TDD

On 10/13/2013 4:32 PM, Frank wrote:
On 10/12/2013 11:15 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959
to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.

More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work
hours needed to buy given items.


These items are cheaper because of increased automation.

This is also why things like health care and education in part keep
going up because the same number of individuals are required in the
process.

Threads talking about the price of shirts are mentioning an item that
has largely gone offshore because factories full of seamstresses are
still needed. Apparel like stockings are still made here as they are
completely machine made.

I've noticed that the cost of anything the government tampers with or
interferes with, goes up. o_O

TDD

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:23:12 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/13/2013 8:29 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 21:06:37 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 10/13/2013 4:06 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:15:48 -0500, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work
hours needed to buy given items.

In '59, a bank would give you a toaster just for opening a banking
account

Now they give you a bank if you buy a toaster?


No, no, no. Now they foreclose on the toaster?


Does this foreclosed home come with a toaster? ^_^

TDD

Not is you pay off the Note on the toaster.

On 10/14/13 5:23 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Dean Hoffman" " wrote in
message

Americans are spending less of their disposible income
on food as time goes by. I looked at the U.S. Department
of Agriculture site. It has that type of information but
it is unavailable due to the "shutdown". There is a
chart he http://tinyurl.com/3yqoses Americans spent
about 23% of their disposable income in 1930. We were
spending about 9.5% of it by 2010.


Of course, that is "at home"expenditure, not total.

The first paragraph of the article breaks the expense down to about
5.5% at home and about 4% away from home for 2009. I didn't see
anything more at a quick glance.

When I was a kid, eating out was maybe a once or twice a year thing and
there was no such thing as "fast food". Now, restaurants of all kinds have
proliferated and people eat out frequently; they patronize fast food places
even more frequently.

Eating in town was a big deal especially for farm kids. I still
remember a McDonalds in Lincoln, NE. It had the golden arches but no
place to sit if I recall correctly.
Small towns typically had bars/restaurants. Most of those would
have a noon special. One could probably get a burger or pizza if the
bartender was in a good mood in the evenings.
I guess I did eat "in town" five days a week during the school year.
That was mandatory.

On Monday, October 14, 2013 2:56:59 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in message

...

"Dean Hoffman" " wrote in

message



Americans are spending less of their disposible income

on food as time goes by. I looked at the U.S. Department

of Agriculture site. It has that type of information but

it is unavailable due to the "shutdown". There is a

chart he http://tinyurl.com/3yqoses Americans spent

about 23% of their disposable income in 1930. We were

spending about 9.5% of it by 2010.





Of course, that is "at home"expenditure, not total.



When I was a kid, eating out was maybe a once or twice a year thing and

there was no such thing as "fast food". Now, restaurants of all kinds

have proliferated and people eat out frequently; they patronize fast food

places even more frequently.



dadiOH

____________________________



Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?

Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?

Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

You are right about eating out in my area it is cheaper eating out then cook

at home

the only thing is when you eat at home you know what are you eating!!!!


Which universe is it that you're living in where it's
cheaper to eat out than cook at home?

On Monday, October 14, 2013 1:16:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:


I buy them for $15-$30, tops. Wait until they're on sale. In the



late Winter, it's pretty easy to find long-sleeved shirts (all I wear)



at a very good price. Last year I found a bunch of nice Oxfords for



about $20.





Are these made in America or made overseas? Made overseas, I

agree you can find them at those prices on sale. But at the large

dept stores that typically have the big sales,



Yes, overseas. They're $60 normally.



I haven't seen a made in America dress shirt in years. Not that I specifically

went looking for one, but I sure haven't noticed any. I would

think there are still some manufacturers left, but I bet they

are expensive.



Only custom made, AFAIK. You aren't getting one for $60, either. I

knew a woman who had to have her shirts custom made because of her

sleeve length and collar size (*long* and small). She wore men's

custom-made shirts because it would have cost a bloody fortune to have

them made for a woman (costs a bunch to have the buttons sewn on the

other side, ya' know). They were still well over $100 each. That was

over 20 years ago.


We're on the same page. I believed someone else here claimed
you could get a USA made dress shirt for $60. I think they do still
make some small amount of shirts here, but $60 is more typical
of the everyday retail price of an import shirt.

On 10/14/2013 1:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 13:37:52 -0400, wrote:


I see no evidence that they're getting smaller. There are a dozen or
so going up in my neighborhood, all of which are in the 3000-4000ft^2
range. All five and six bedroom.

You have to measure them. Hard to see the changes on a daily basis,
but if you measure them once a month you can see the shrinkage.

If wool shrinks when wet, why don't sheep
shrink in the rain?

Six thick sheep, twixt six thick thumbs.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 10/14/2013 2:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 13:51:59 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:


That shows just how much more money people have, after the basics.


Or, the lack of education and parents in the home.
No one knows how to cook, these days.

How hard is it to throw a pizza into the microwave?

That takes a MPz degree. Masters in Pizza.

I'm remembering some thing "from another list".
The old woman is at the store, during extended power ct. She is buying
microwave popcorn. Other shopper, much younger. "Lucky you, have
electricity..." No, the old woman says. Power still out. We're going to
take scissors, cut the bags open. Scrape out the oil and pop corn. Cook
it up in covered pot on the range top. Which we'll light with a match.
The younger woman got excited, and ran to tell her shopping companion,
now they can have popcorn.

Some people don't have the recipe to boil water.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 10/14/2013 3:44 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
I gave up on corporate America in the early 1980's due to Affirmative
Action where women and minorities were promoted all around me and they
couldn't do the job but I could. They didn't want to pay for my skills
so I went out on my own and they had to call me when the morons couldn't
make anything work. I did take an overseas job for The SDI program but
that wasn't permanent. I do a lot of contract labor when I can but I
don't have to tolerate ANY male bovine droppings. I can fire customers
and have done so when they become troublesome and start to believe I'm
their employee. Me and JH will often be the last people called in to fix
a problem and when we ask, "Why didn't you call us first?" the answer is
often, "You charge too much." I suppose the lack of math comprehension
is due to government school education where management will pay three
different companies $65/hr for a service call who can't fix it right
rather than call us for $85/hr to fix it right the first trip. I know a
guy who spent $100.00, $10.00 at a time trying to get an inkjet
cartridge refilled rather than pay $30.00 for a remanufactured
cartridge. The lack of understanding of simple math among the citizenry
drives me nuts. o_O

TDD

I'm on that list, sadly. I wanted a pressure washer. Electric plug in,
for cleaning stuff at work. Bought one from Ebay, $50, which arrived and
find out it was missing tips. The Sears guys didn't even admit there was
a Craftsman electric pressure washer. Bought a wand and tips at Lowe's
for about $65. Came with hose. Find out the pressure switch on unit 1
was defective. Red Sears, Craftsman. So, I bought a blue Campbell
Hausfield. That was maybe $60 or so. The high pressure housing cracked
after a couple jobs. Plastic!

Went to shop around. Home Depot had one with metal housing, and I've
been using it since. $98 plus tax. So now, I've got about $400 invested
in a $98 pressure washer.

Idiot, reporting, sir!

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 10/14/2013 4:06 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:


Back in the 1970's me and a several guys I knew decided to take a
refresher course so we could obtain our First Class FCC license required
for a job as a broadcast engineer. We already knew our electronics and
had experience in the field but needed a little
help to guarantee we passed our test. There was one gal in the class.
She was nice and we all liked her but she didn't know one end of a
soldering iron from the other but did know a screwdriver was for
screwing. Everyone in the class passed the test and obtained our First
Class FCC license. Guess who was immediately hired by a radio station?
That was my first real brush with Affirmative Action. o_O

TDD
Anita Hill: It doesn't matter the manner of the evidence, it's the
seriousness of the charge.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Monday, October 14, 2013 7:22:08 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 10/14/2013 3:44 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I gave up on corporate America in the early 1980's due to Affirmative

Action where women and minorities were promoted all around me and they

couldn't do the job but I could. They didn't want to pay for my skills

so I went out on my own and they had to call me when the morons couldn't

make anything work. I did take an overseas job for The SDI program but

that wasn't permanent. I do a lot of contract labor when I can but I

don't have to tolerate ANY male bovine droppings. I can fire customers

and have done so when they become troublesome and start to believe I'm

their employee. Me and JH will often be the last people called in to fix

a problem and when we ask, "Why didn't you call us first?" the answer is

often, "You charge too much." I suppose the lack of math comprehension

is due to government school education where management will pay three

different companies $65/hr for a service call who can't fix it right

rather than call us for $85/hr to fix it right the first trip. I know a

guy who spent $100.00, $10.00 at a time trying to get an inkjet

cartridge refilled rather than pay $30.00 for a remanufactured

cartridge. The lack of understanding of simple math among the citizenry

drives me nuts. o_O



TDD



I'm on that list, sadly. I wanted a pressure washer. Electric plug in,

for cleaning stuff at work. Bought one from Ebay, $50, which arrived and

find out it was missing tips. The Sears guys didn't even admit there was

a Craftsman electric pressure washer. Bought a wand and tips at Lowe's

for about $65. Came with hose. Find out the pressure switch on unit 1

was defective. Red Sears, Craftsman. So, I bought a blue Campbell

Hausfield. That was maybe $60 or so. The high pressure housing cracked

after a couple jobs. Plastic!



Went to shop around. Home Depot had one with metal housing, and I've

been using it since. $98 plus tax. So now, I've got about $400 invested

in a $98 pressure washer.



Idiot, reporting, sir!



Another silly thing some people do is find that a
store someplace is selling the same product for $5 less.
Or the fast food place has a coupon there good
for $5 off. So they drive 10 miles farther each way to
get it. So they just used $3.50 in gas, plus
other per mile expense attributable to a car. Then
factor in the time and what have you really saved?

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 15:06:28 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/13/2013 7:48 PM, wrote:

********************Trim Da Phat********************


My boss gives points to "60-year-old guys" when hiring. Finding a
graduate who knows which end of a soldering iron to pick up is
nearly impossible anymore. He did hire a kid (45) recently, though.


Back in the 1970's me and a several guys I knew decided to take a
refresher course so we could obtain our First Class FCC license required
for a job as a broadcast engineer. We already knew our electronics and
had experience in the field but needed a little
help to guarantee we passed our test. There was one gal in the class.
She was nice and we all liked her but she didn't know one end of a
soldering iron from the other but did know a screwdriver was for
screwing. Everyone in the class passed the test and obtained our First
Class FCC license. Guess who was immediately hired by a radio station?
That was my first real brush with Affirmative Action. o_O

She had the tools the station was looking for.

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 14:47:29 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/13/2013 6:25 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Ed Pawlowski:
I've been trying to hire a person for a trainee type maintenance
position. I get two types of applicants. One is the 60+ year old
guy that was making $25 or more an hour. The other is the young
guy that did not finish high school and has a difficult time
spelling the name of the street he lives on. .

My son-in-law recently had to hire somebody to help test financial
planning software. He decided that one litmus test was whether the
applicant could demonstrate an understanding of compound interest.

He had to interview twenty-seven *college graduates* before he found
somebody who could.


But pre-employment tests are racist. o_O

That's why a smart interviewer doesn't give tests. Just ask them what
they've accomplished.

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 20:50:42 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 10/13/2013 10:46 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/13/13 12:11 AM, Bob F wrote:
Dean Hoffman" wrote:
According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959
to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.

More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing
work hours needed to buy given items.

If only one could find a job. What did we export then? What do we
export now?
Why don't we have decent jobs - because we exported all the
manufacturing.

And how many hours did we have to work then and now to buy our current
largest
manufactured export - gasoline and diesel fuel?

When nobody can get a middle class job, who benefits by low prices?


Some information here
http://tinyurl.com/6xo3y6 for gas prices.
Gas was the equivalent of $3.87 in 1918, $3.51 in 2013. The lowest
equivalent price was $1.46 in 1998.


Pound of salted peanuts $3.50 in Walgreens, today.

Pound of salted honey-roasted peanuts $2.58 at Kroger. Been the same
price for a couple of years.

On Saturday, October 12, 2013 11:15:48 PM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959

to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.



More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo



One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to

almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work

hours needed to buy given items.

But, to use that example... how long will the 2013 gas stove be usefully serviceable relative to the 1958 gas stove? Gotta consider the whole life cycle. I really would like to know if this is just a mistaken impression or able to be supported by statistics, but it seems that a lot of new products are made simply cheaper, not necessarily less expensively. I hope I'm wrong.

nate

On Sunday, October 13, 2013 2:31:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 23:46:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:



On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:15:48 -0500, Dean Hoffman

" wrote:





According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959

to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.



More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo



One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to

almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work

hours needed to buy given items.





Thanks for posting that. I've often used the "how many hours" in

discussions. Prices on many goods have come down and are of better

quality. Such as the color TV. I also recall paying $5 for a really

good white dress shirt (made in USA) in the early 1960's. Not as good

quality, but you can get shirts for $15 at discount stores (made in

some third world country) .

And the good quality, american dress shirt is about $60, more or

less.

Now there's something with which I'm familiar, since I can never find my size at a "discount" store anyway. Apparently clothing manufacturers think that anyone ~6' tall must weigh at least 300 lbs, or else having lots of material blousing out around your belt is fashionable.

I finally just gave up and started shopping at more upscale stores, but finding a "slim fit" cut dress shirt is still challenging sometimes.

nate

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:00:59 -0500, CRNG
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:47:50 GMT, (Cindy Hamilton)
wrote in Re Household
goods affordability:

Definitely not Keeping Up With the Joneses.

That is to be commended and admired IMO.

Spoken like a true lefty.

On Sunday, October 13, 2013 2:38:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 03:34:29 -0700, "Bob F"

wrote:



Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:11:35 -0700, "Bob F"

wrote:



Dean Hoffman" wrote:

According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in

1959 to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in

2013.



More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo



One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to

almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing

work hours needed to buy given items.



If only one could find a job. What did we export then? What do we

export now? Why don't we have decent jobs - because we exported all

the manufacturing.



And how many hours did we have to work then and now to buy our

current largest manufactured export - gasoline and diesel fuel?



When nobody can get a middle class job, who benefits by low prices?



Some, but not all of the unemployment is exporting manufacturing jobs

in favor of cheap labor. Many of our economic problems are still the

after effects of the housing bubble that was caused by banks and

sleazy mortgage brokers.



I've been trying to hire a person for a trainee type maintenance

position. I get two types of applicants. One is the 60+ year old guy

that was making $25 or more an hour. The other is the young guy that

did not finish high school and has a difficult time spelling the name

of the street he lives on. .



As for how much are we paying for oil products, not much. Gas was 22¢

a gallon in 1963. Gas is now 16x that but my wage is 21x what is was

then so I'm ahead.



Lucky you. College grads are having trouble find anything much better than

minimum wage jobs, if that.



Actually, if they are willing to get their hands dirty, there ARE

jobs out there that pay a half decent wage. They will be tired at the

end of the day, too.

The jobs are not plentiful, but try to hire a mechanic today. And even

with the burst housing bubble, getting good building tradesmen is NOT

easy. Getting GOOD truck drivers is not easy either - but nor is

finding trucking companies willing to pay a decent premium for a good

driver --.



A college degree is not a pre-requisite for these jobs - but given

the choice between thenabove-mentioned applicant who can't spell their

street name and a college grad - the grad has the better chance.

I'm probably better qualified to be a mechanic than most college grads, but I wouldn't presume to be legitimately good at it without some more training. There's lots of specialized stuff in today's cars that requires tools and knowledge that I just don't have even though I've done extensive amounts of work on older cars.

That said, it is looking like a possible future career as I'm completely burned out on working for big companies.

nate

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:27:27 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 14:00:11 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 13:51:59 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 10/14/2013 1:33 PM, wrote:

When I was a kid, eating out was maybe a once or twice a year thing and
there was no such thing as "fast food". Now, restaurants of all kinds have
proliferated and people eat out frequently; they patronize fast food places
even more frequently.

That shows just how much more money people have, after the basics.


Or, the lack of education and parents in the home.
No one knows how to cook, these days.

How hard is it to throw a pizza into the microwave?

My wife and I have a mandatory understanding. I'm a better cook!

I'm sure not. She is a great cook and baker and candy-maker. ;-) She
got my mother's recipe book and is in the process of putting it
together for publication (for the rest of the extended family).

OTOH, I have trouble getting the frozen pizza into the microwave. I
was hurtin' a year ago when we were living apart during the week. I
hate going to a restaurant alone, too.

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:41:47 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 10/14/13 01:33 pm, wrote:

Americans are spending less of their disposible income
on food as time goes by. I looked at the U.S. Department
of Agriculture site. It has that type of information but
it is unavailable due to the "shutdown". There is a
chart he http://tinyurl.com/3yqoses Americans spent
about 23% of their disposable income in 1930. We were
spending about 9.5% of it by 2010.


Of course, that is "at home"expenditure, not total.

When I was a kid, eating out was maybe a once or twice a year thing and
there was no such thing as "fast food". Now, restaurants of all kinds have
proliferated and people eat out frequently; they patronize fast food places
even more frequently.

That shows just how much more money people have, after the basics.

About 30 years ago friends in California told me that they had been
asked, "How can you afford to eat at home? Everything is so expensive."

For two, they're probably not that far from reality. I prefer home
cooked meals, though. Restaurants are nice but not every day!

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 15:24:31 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, October 14, 2013 2:56:59 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in message

...

"Dean Hoffman" " wrote in

message



Americans are spending less of their disposible income

on food as time goes by. I looked at the U.S. Department

of Agriculture site. It has that type of information but

it is unavailable due to the "shutdown". There is a

chart he http://tinyurl.com/3yqoses Americans spent

about 23% of their disposable income in 1930. We were

spending about 9.5% of it by 2010.





Of course, that is "at home"expenditure, not total.



When I was a kid, eating out was maybe a once or twice a year thing and

there was no such thing as "fast food". Now, restaurants of all kinds

have proliferated and people eat out frequently; they patronize fast food

places even more frequently.



dadiOH

____________________________



Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?

Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?

Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

You are right about eating out in my area it is cheaper eating out then cook

at home

the only thing is when you eat at home you know what are you eating!!!!


Which universe is it that you're living in where it's
cheaper to eat out than cook at home?

It's probably not that far off. We can eat out for $20ish, plus tip.
We spend a *lot* more than $100/wk at the grocery store and that
doesn't include the monthly (six weeks?) trips to Sams to fill the
freezer.

On Monday, October 14, 2013 7:56:37 PM UTC-4, N8N wrote:
On Saturday, October 12, 2013 11:15:48 PM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:

According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959



to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.







More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo







One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to



almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work



hours needed to buy given items.



But, to use that example... how long will the 2013 gas stove be usefully serviceable relative to the 1958 gas stove? Gotta consider the whole life cycle. I really would like to know if this is just a mistaken impression or able to be supported by statistics, but it seems that a lot of new products are made simply cheaper, not necessarily less expensively. I hope I'm wrong.



nate

Valid points. I think you're right, that many things don't last
as long as they used to. But it's even more complicated than just
making them cheaper so they don't last. In the case of a stove,
how long would most customers want a stove to last? The 1950
stove might have lasted 30 or 40 years. But today appliance styles,
features, colors, etc change. So I don't think many people would
want a stove to last that long, nor would they be willing to pay
extra to have it last that long, especially on a lower end one
that costs $400. Even if it lasts 10 years, it's just $40 a
year and then you have a brand new looking new stove again.
Even if the super stove lasted 30 years, it's gonna look like
hell by then.

On the other hand, it seems a common complaint here that furnaces
for example, HVAC stuff instead of lasting 25 to 30 years, only
lasts 15 now. But maybe that isn't entirely bad either. If you shelled
out extra money in 1985 for an HVAC that would last 30 years
was that such a good thing? That furnace was less than 80% efficient
and now you have furnaces that are 95%, two stage, etc.
AC was less than 10 SEER, now you have 14. So, it's really a more
complex problem.

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:15:51 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 10/14/2013 2:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 13:51:59 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:


That shows just how much more money people have, after the basics.


Or, the lack of education and parents in the home.
No one knows how to cook, these days.

How hard is it to throw a pizza into the microwave?

That takes a MPz degree. Masters in Pizza.

I'm remembering some thing "from another list".
The old woman is at the store, during extended power ct. She is buying
microwave popcorn. Other shopper, much younger. "Lucky you, have
electricity..." No, the old woman says. Power still out. We're going to
take scissors, cut the bags open. Scrape out the oil and pop corn. Cook
it up in covered pot on the range top. Which we'll light with a match.
The younger woman got excited, and ran to tell her shopping companion,
now they can have popcorn.

Why didn't they just buy popcorn and some oil?

Some people don't have the recipe to boil water.

Seems more than one expects.

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:56:37 -0700 (PDT), N8N
wrote:

On Saturday, October 12, 2013 11:15:48 PM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959

to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.



More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo



One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to

almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work

hours needed to buy given items.

But, to use that example... how long will the 2013 gas stove be usefully serviceable relative to the 1958 gas stove? Gotta consider the whole life cycle. I really would like to know if this is just a mistaken impression or able to be supported by statistics, but it seems that a lot of new products are made simply cheaper, not necessarily less expensively. I hope I'm wrong.

Who cares? It'll last long enough.

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:00:55 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:47:50 GMT, (Cindy Hamilton)
wrote:


For some time I have not seen Cindy's postings. It puzzles me. No
filters - I just do not see them - even this one.

I know my reader, but this has got me wondering what the heck is
wrong.

I use to see her comments, though.

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:40:03 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Another silly thing some people do is find that a
store someplace is selling the same product for $5 less.
Or the fast food place has a coupon there good
for $5 off. So they drive 10 miles farther each way to
get it. So they just used $3.50 in gas, plus
other per mile expense attributable to a car. Then
factor in the time and what have you really saved?

Housewives may drive across town to save 25 cents on a pound of
butter. I'll never, ever, figure that one out

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:04:55 -0400, wrote:

How hard is it to throw a pizza into the microwave?

My wife and I have a mandatory understanding. I'm a better cook!

I'm sure not. She is a great cook and baker and candy-maker. ;-) She
got my mother's recipe book and is in the process of putting it
together for publication (for the rest of the extended family).

OTOH, I have trouble getting the frozen pizza into the microwave. I
was hurtin' a year ago when we were living apart during the week. I
hate going to a restaurant alone, too.

You married a Southern girl. I married a Yankee girl

The boss, in a meeting one day asked me how the biscuits were coming
along. "Boss, the biscuits are like trying to eat a hockey puck..."

Finally, she has found an improvement. If she sticks with it.

On 10/14/2013 6:40 PM, wrote:
On Monday, October 14, 2013 7:22:08 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 10/14/2013 3:44 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I gave up on corporate America in the early 1980's due to Affirmative

Action where women and minorities were promoted all around me and they

couldn't do the job but I could. They didn't want to pay for my skills

so I went out on my own and they had to call me when the morons couldn't

make anything work. I did take an overseas job for The SDI program but

that wasn't permanent. I do a lot of contract labor when I can but I

don't have to tolerate ANY male bovine droppings. I can fire customers

and have done so when they become troublesome and start to believe I'm

their employee. Me and JH will often be the last people called in to fix

a problem and when we ask, "Why didn't you call us first?" the answer is

often, "You charge too much." I suppose the lack of math comprehension

is due to government school education where management will pay three

different companies $65/hr for a service call who can't fix it right

rather than call us for $85/hr to fix it right the first trip. I know a

guy who spent $100.00, $10.00 at a time trying to get an inkjet

cartridge refilled rather than pay $30.00 for a remanufactured

cartridge. The lack of understanding of simple math among the citizenry

drives me nuts. o_O



TDD



I'm on that list, sadly. I wanted a pressure washer. Electric plug in,

for cleaning stuff at work. Bought one from Ebay, $50, which arrived and

find out it was missing tips. The Sears guys didn't even admit there was

a Craftsman electric pressure washer. Bought a wand and tips at Lowe's

for about $65. Came with hose. Find out the pressure switch on unit 1

was defective. Red Sears, Craftsman. So, I bought a blue Campbell

Hausfield. That was maybe $60 or so. The high pressure housing cracked

after a couple jobs. Plastic!



Went to shop around. Home Depot had one with metal housing, and I've

been using it since. $98 plus tax. So now, I've got about $400 invested

in a $98 pressure washer.



Idiot, reporting, sir!



Another silly thing some people do is find that a
store someplace is selling the same product for $5 less.
Or the fast food place has a coupon there good
for $5 off. So they drive 10 miles farther each way to
get it. So they just used $3.50 in gas, plus
other per mile expense attributable to a car. Then
factor in the time and what have you really saved?


My roommate will drive 10 miles each way to save 10 cents a gallon on
gas. I can't get through to him. o_O

TDD

On 10/14/2013 6:41 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 15:06:28 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/13/2013 7:48 PM, wrote:

********************Trim Da Phat********************


My boss gives points to "60-year-old guys" when hiring. Finding a
graduate who knows which end of a soldering iron to pick up is
nearly impossible anymore. He did hire a kid (45) recently, though.


Back in the 1970's me and a several guys I knew decided to take a
refresher course so we could obtain our First Class FCC license required
for a job as a broadcast engineer. We already knew our electronics and
had experience in the field but needed a little
help to guarantee we passed our test. There was one gal in the class.
She was nice and we all liked her but she didn't know one end of a
soldering iron from the other but did know a screwdriver was for
screwing. Everyone in the class passed the test and obtained our First
Class FCC license. Guess who was immediately hired by a radio station?
That was my first real brush with Affirmative Action. o_O

She had the tools the station was looking for.


Two pointy ones. o_O

TDD

Per Oren:
Is one party "worse" than the other? I doubt it as both are mostly
representing special interests in order to get the money they need for
television commercials at election time.

Because they have this mind set that they were elected to "govern";
instead of being sent to congress to "represent" the people.

I'd say just the opposite. First and foremost they represent the
corporate interests whose money they need to finance their campaigns.

After that, they "represent" the populace by pandering to the populace's
ignorance.

I can't blame them. After all, they're politicians, and politicians
live to get elected. Some guy stands up and says it the way it is, and
the first thing that will happen is that his corporate donations will
dry up. Second thing will be that some other guy will crucify him in
the media - and run him out of office next election.

Politicians are what they are.... the root cause is the populace and
there is no short term cure for that.

I hope I'm wrong.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 10/14/2013 7:55 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:04:55 -0400, wrote:

How hard is it to throw a pizza into the microwave?

My wife and I have a mandatory understanding. I'm a better cook!

I'm sure not. She is a great cook and baker and candy-maker. ;-) She
got my mother's recipe book and is in the process of putting it
together for publication (for the rest of the extended family).

OTOH, I have trouble getting the frozen pizza into the microwave. I
was hurtin' a year ago when we were living apart during the week. I
hate going to a restaurant alone, too.

You married a Southern girl. I married a Yankee girl

The boss, in a meeting one day asked me how the biscuits were coming
along. "Boss, the biscuits are like trying to eat a hockey puck..."

Finally, she has found an improvement. If she sticks with it.


My mother was a naturalized Southerner from Brooklyn, New York and my
Southern grandmother "Granny" and my Southern aunts taught Mom how to
cook Southern. Northern grandmother, "Nana" sent care packages filled
with bagels, Bialystok rolls and various other foodstuffs which were
very mysterious to Southerners. ^_^

TDD

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:42:22 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:40:03 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Another silly thing some people do is find that a
store someplace is selling the same product for $5 less.
Or the fast food place has a coupon there good
for $5 off. So they drive 10 miles farther each way to
get it. So they just used $3.50 in gas, plus
other per mile expense attributable to a car. Then
factor in the time and what have you really saved?

Housewives may drive across town to save 25 cents on a pound of
butter. I'll never, ever, figure that one out

I will occasionally drive out of my way for cheaper gas (if it's a
normal place I buy). I want to reward those who keep the prices down.

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:36:32 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:00:55 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:47:50 GMT, (Cindy Hamilton)
wrote:


For some time I have not seen Cindy's postings. It puzzles me. No
filters - I just do not see them - even this one.

I know my reader, but this has got me wondering what the heck is
wrong.

I use to see her comments, though.

Maybe your news server isn't connected to hers and it takes time for
everything to sync up. She uses tds.net which doesn't ring a bell as
one that should be shunned.

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:55:41 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:04:55 -0400, wrote:

How hard is it to throw a pizza into the microwave?

My wife and I have a mandatory understanding. I'm a better cook!

I'm sure not. She is a great cook and baker and candy-maker. ;-) She
got my mother's recipe book and is in the process of putting it
together for publication (for the rest of the extended family).

OTOH, I have trouble getting the frozen pizza into the microwave. I
was hurtin' a year ago when we were living apart during the week. I
hate going to a restaurant alone, too.

You married a Southern girl. I married a Yankee girl

Well, I did, but dad didn't. Mom was from Minnesota. ;-)

The boss, in a meeting one day asked me how the biscuits were coming
along. "Boss, the biscuits are like trying to eat a hockey puck..."

Finally, she has found an improvement. If she sticks with it.

;-)

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:50:22 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/14/2013 6:40 PM, wrote:
On Monday, October 14, 2013 7:22:08 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 10/14/2013 3:44 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I gave up on corporate America in the early 1980's due to Affirmative

Action where women and minorities were promoted all around me and they

couldn't do the job but I could. They didn't want to pay for my skills

so I went out on my own and they had to call me when the morons couldn't

make anything work. I did take an overseas job for The SDI program but

that wasn't permanent. I do a lot of contract labor when I can but I

don't have to tolerate ANY male bovine droppings. I can fire customers

and have done so when they become troublesome and start to believe I'm

their employee. Me and JH will often be the last people called in to fix

a problem and when we ask, "Why didn't you call us first?" the answer is

often, "You charge too much." I suppose the lack of math comprehension

is due to government school education where management will pay three

different companies $65/hr for a service call who can't fix it right

rather than call us for $85/hr to fix it right the first trip. I know a

guy who spent $100.00, $10.00 at a time trying to get an inkjet

cartridge refilled rather than pay $30.00 for a remanufactured

cartridge. The lack of understanding of simple math among the citizenry

drives me nuts. o_O



TDD



I'm on that list, sadly. I wanted a pressure washer. Electric plug in,

for cleaning stuff at work. Bought one from Ebay, $50, which arrived and

find out it was missing tips. The Sears guys didn't even admit there was

a Craftsman electric pressure washer. Bought a wand and tips at Lowe's

for about $65. Came with hose. Find out the pressure switch on unit 1

was defective. Red Sears, Craftsman. So, I bought a blue Campbell

Hausfield. That was maybe $60 or so. The high pressure housing cracked

after a couple jobs. Plastic!



Went to shop around. Home Depot had one with metal housing, and I've

been using it since. $98 plus tax. So now, I've got about $400 invested

in a $98 pressure washer.



Idiot, reporting, sir!



Another silly thing some people do is find that a
store someplace is selling the same product for $5 less.
Or the fast food place has a coupon there good
for $5 off. So they drive 10 miles farther each way to
get it. So they just used $3.50 in gas, plus
other per mile expense attributable to a car. Then
factor in the time and what have you really saved?


My roommate will drive 10 miles each way to save 10 cents a gallon on
gas. I can't get through to him. o_O

TDD
Might make sense if the tank is big enough and the vehicle gets good
enough mileage.

On 10/14/2013 10:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:50:22 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/14/2013 6:40 PM, wrote:
On Monday, October 14, 2013 7:22:08 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 10/14/2013 3:44 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I gave up on corporate America in the early 1980's due to Affirmative

Action where women and minorities were promoted all around me and they

couldn't do the job but I could. They didn't want to pay for my skills

so I went out on my own and they had to call me when the morons couldn't

make anything work. I did take an overseas job for The SDI program but

that wasn't permanent. I do a lot of contract labor when I can but I

don't have to tolerate ANY male bovine droppings. I can fire customers

and have done so when they become troublesome and start to believe I'm

their employee. Me and JH will often be the last people called in to fix

a problem and when we ask, "Why didn't you call us first?" the answer is

often, "You charge too much." I suppose the lack of math comprehension

is due to government school education where management will pay three

different companies $65/hr for a service call who can't fix it right

rather than call us for $85/hr to fix it right the first trip. I know a

guy who spent $100.00, $10.00 at a time trying to get an inkjet

cartridge refilled rather than pay $30.00 for a remanufactured

cartridge. The lack of understanding of simple math among the citizenry

drives me nuts. o_O



TDD



I'm on that list, sadly. I wanted a pressure washer. Electric plug in,

for cleaning stuff at work. Bought one from Ebay, $50, which arrived and

find out it was missing tips. The Sears guys didn't even admit there was

a Craftsman electric pressure washer. Bought a wand and tips at Lowe's

for about $65. Came with hose. Find out the pressure switch on unit 1

was defective. Red Sears, Craftsman. So, I bought a blue Campbell

Hausfield. That was maybe $60 or so. The high pressure housing cracked

after a couple jobs. Plastic!



Went to shop around. Home Depot had one with metal housing, and I've

been using it since. $98 plus tax. So now, I've got about $400 invested

in a $98 pressure washer.



Idiot, reporting, sir!



Another silly thing some people do is find that a
store someplace is selling the same product for $5 less.
Or the fast food place has a coupon there good
for $5 off. So they drive 10 miles farther each way to
get it. So they just used $3.50 in gas, plus
other per mile expense attributable to a car. Then
factor in the time and what have you really saved?


My roommate will drive 10 miles each way to save 10 cents a gallon on
gas. I can't get through to him. o_O

TDD
Might make sense if the tank is big enough and the vehicle gets good
enough mileage.


He's the type who will only put a maximum of $20 at a time in the tank. ^_^

TDD

When threads go totally off track like this one has, it's fertile ground for an argument to pop into existance, like energy in a vaccuum.

I think you really can't compare the buying power of an hour's worth of wages today to that of 50 years ago because so many things have changed in 50 years.

If you did that comparison on food, you'd probably find food to be cheaper, but that fresh fruits and vegetables are now available all year long, and that adds value.

If you did that comparison on energy, you'd probably find the energy more expensive, but that it was being used much more efficiently, and that adds value too.

And, your comparisons couldn't take into account the most obvious difference; change in technology. 50 years ago, the check out girl at a supermarket would be paid handsomely because she'd know the price per pound of every type of produce in the store. Now, that same person merely needs to know how to access the right menu on a touch sensitive computer screen, and so the store can hire anyone off the street to do that same work. In that case, wages have gone down since the 1960's for that kind of work.
But, the result is quicker check outs through fewer mistakes, and that adds value too.

So, about the only thing you can compare between the 1960's and today is the Maytag washing machine. Everything else has changed.

On 10/15/2013 12:20 AM, nestork wrote:

When threads go totally off track like this one has, it's fertile ground
for an argument to pop into existance, like energy in a vaccuum.


So, about the only thing you can compare between the 1960's and today is
the Maytag washing machine. Everything else has changed.

I'm told that Bell and Gossett still uses the same
molds for their watee circulator pumps, for hot
water heat systems. You can interchange parts from
the first models.

You're right, there has been a heck of a lot of thread
drift, and some flames, because I'm an idiot.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 10/14/2013 11:25 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 10/14/2013 10:14 PM, wrote:


My roommate will drive 10 miles each way to save 10 cents a gallon on
gas. I can't get through to him. o_O

TDD
Might make sense if the tank is big enough and the vehicle gets good
enough mileage.


He's the type who will only put a maximum of $20 at a time in the tank. ^_^

TDD

I heard some where, a quote "The increasing price of gas
doesn't affect me. I just buy twenty dollars worth each
time I fill up." Now, THAT is clueless.

Yes, it's amazing. The people who have no concept of
money. The problem is, when I try to explain how it works,
I get explanations back, of why they do it that way.

Reminds me of the time I was trying to talk with a family's
young son (bout 7 or 8) on FRS walkie talkies. I could not
hear the boy, even with my radio volume on max. I swapped
walkies with him, and TX on his. Found the microphone. Told
him to talk "into right here". He says no, "I do it this
way...." and talks into the speaker. That was the closest
I've come to whacking a kid in the head.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 10/14/2013 11:25 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 10/14/2013 10:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:50:22 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/14/2013 6:40 PM, wrote:
On Monday, October 14, 2013 7:22:08 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 10/14/2013 3:44 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I gave up on corporate America in the early 1980's due to Affirmative

Action where women and minorities were promoted all around me and
they

couldn't do the job but I could. They didn't want to pay for my
skills

so I went out on my own and they had to call me when the morons
couldn't

make anything work. I did take an overseas job for The SDI program
but



On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:26:12 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:10:38 -0400, wrote:

I am not sure the boric acid actually kills all the ants but it
certainly changes what they eat.

Around here I pretty much have the ants trained to only eat dead bugs.
That is the truce we have worked out.
I have no illusion that I can eliminate them.

My wife fondly says; as long as they live outside we can get along.
Our ants are the tiny Argentine Ants around here. The critters can
come from the outside, under the inside baseboards with a line to the
pet's feed bowls. Only place we see them inside at certain times of
the year.

The bug guy is called one a year or so. Same for roaches that seem to
be "wood roaches"? They mostly stay outside too.

Nothing like in humid climates.

Bait them with the dog food. They will stop eating it and that
particular gang of ants will go away.

"Wood roach" sounds like the American cockroach, palmetto bug or
whatever chamber of commerce name they come up with.
They are not as tough to control as the Asians and Germans

that wasn't permanent. I do a lot of contract labor when I can but I

don't have to tolerate ANY male bovine droppings. I can fire
customers

and have done so when they become troublesome and start to believe
I'm

their employee. Me and JH will often be the last people called in
to fix

a problem and when we ask, "Why didn't you call us first?" the
answer is

often, "You charge too much." I suppose the lack of math
comprehension

is due to government school education where management will pay three

different companies $65/hr for a service call who can't fix it right

rather than call us for $85/hr to fix it right the first trip. I
know a

guy who spent $100.00, $10.00 at a time trying to get an inkjet



On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:26:12 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:10:38 -0400, wrote:

I am not sure the boric acid actually kills all the ants but it
certainly changes what they eat.

Around here I pretty much have the ants trained to only eat dead bugs.
That is the truce we have worked out.
I have no illusion that I can eliminate them.

My wife fondly says; as long as they live outside we can get along.
Our ants are the tiny Argentine Ants around here. The critters can
come from the outside, under the inside baseboards with a line to the
pet's feed bowls. Only place we see them inside at certain times of
the year.

The bug guy is called one a year or so. Same for roaches that seem to
be "wood roaches"? They mostly stay outside too.

Nothing like in humid climates.

Bait them with the dog food. They will stop eating it and that
particular gang of ants will go away.

"Wood roach" sounds like the American cockroach, palmetto bug or
whatever chamber of commerce name they come up with.
They are not as tough to control as the Asians and Germans

cartridge refilled rather than pay $30.00 for a remanufactured

cartridge. The lack of understanding of simple math among the
citizenry

drives me nuts. o_O



TDD



I'm on that list, sadly. I wanted a pressure washer. Electric plug in,

for cleaning stuff at work. Bought one from Ebay, $50, which
arrived and

find out it was missing tips. The Sears guys didn't even admit
there was

a Craftsman electric pressure washer. Bought a wand and tips at Lowe's

for about $65. Came with hose. Find out the pressure switch on unit 1

was defective. Red Sears, Craftsman. So, I bought a blue Campbell

Hausfield. That was maybe $60 or so. The high pressure housing cracked

after a couple jobs. Plastic!



Went to shop around. Home Depot had one with metal housing, and I've

been using it since. $98 plus tax. So now, I've got about $400
invested

in a $98 pressure washer.



Idiot, reporting, sir!



On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:26:12 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:10:38 -0400, wrote:

I am not sure the boric acid actually kills all the ants but it
certainly changes what they eat.

Around here I pretty much have the ants trained to only eat dead bugs.
That is the truce we have worked out.
I have no illusion that I can eliminate them.

My wife fondly says; as long as they live outside we can get along.
Our ants are the tiny Argentine Ants around here. The critters can
come from the outside, under the inside baseboards with a line to the
pet's feed bowls. Only place we see them inside at certain times of
the year.

The bug guy is called one a year or so. Same for roaches that seem to
be "wood roaches"? They mostly stay outside too.

Nothing like in humid climates.

Bait them with the dog food. They will stop eating it and that
particular gang of ants will go away.

"Wood roach" sounds like the American cockroach, palmetto bug or
whatever chamber of commerce name they come up with.
They are not as tough to control as the Asians and Germans




Another silly thing some people do is find that a
store someplace is selling the same product for $5 less.
Or the fast food place has a coupon there good
for $5 off. So they drive 10 miles farther each way to
get it. So they just used $3.50 in gas, plus
other per mile expense attributable to a car. Then
factor in the time and what have you really saved?


My roommate will drive 10 miles each way to save 10 cents a gallon on
gas. I can't get through to him. o_O

TDD
Might make sense if the tank is big enough and the vehicle gets good
enough mileage.


He's the type who will only put a maximum of $20 at a time in the tank. ^_^

TDD

On the "explaining things to people" note. It makes it easier for
others, if you trim and delete some of the excess text.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..