According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959
to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.

More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work
hours needed to buy given items.

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:15:48 -0500, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:


According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959
to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.

More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work
hours needed to buy given items.


Thanks for posting that. I've often used the "how many hours" in
discussions. Prices on many goods have come down and are of better
quality. Such as the color TV. I also recall paying $5 for a really
good white dress shirt (made in USA) in the early 1960's. Not as good
quality, but you can get shirts for $15 at discount stores (made in
some third world country) .

Dean Hoffman" wrote:
According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959
to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.

More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing
work hours needed to buy given items.

If only one could find a job. What did we export then? What do we export now?
Why don't we have decent jobs - because we exported all the manufacturing.

And how many hours did we have to work then and now to buy our current largest
manufactured export - gasoline and diesel fuel?

When nobody can get a middle class job, who benefits by low prices?

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:11:35 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Dean Hoffman" wrote:
According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959
to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.

More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing
work hours needed to buy given items.

If only one could find a job. What did we export then? What do we export now?
Why don't we have decent jobs - because we exported all the manufacturing.

And how many hours did we have to work then and now to buy our current largest
manufactured export - gasoline and diesel fuel?

When nobody can get a middle class job, who benefits by low prices?

Some, but not all of the unemployment is exporting manufacturing jobs
in favor of cheap labor. Many of our economic problems are still the
after effects of the housing bubble that was caused by banks and
sleazy mortgage brokers.

I've been trying to hire a person for a trainee type maintenance
position. I get two types of applicants. One is the 60+ year old guy
that was making $25 or more an hour. The other is the young guy that
did not finish high school and has a difficult time spelling the name
of the street he lives on. .

As for how much are we paying for oil products, not much. Gas was 22¢
a gallon in 1963. Gas is now 16x that but my wage is 21x what is was
then so I'm ahead.

On Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:15:48 PM UTC-7, Dean Hoffman wrote:
According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959

to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.



More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo



One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to

almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work

hours needed to buy given items.

Do you know any place where I can compare a pound of Russet potatoes or Ribeye steak or a gallon of milk or a visit to the doctor for a yearly check-up (without some bs insurance) or a semester of English 101 at Harvard (without tuition assistance) or a gallon of gasoline? Unlike appliances, all those things have not changed. For that matter, I remember paying $150.00 for a calculator in 1976 that I can buy today for $1.99 and I would prefer the old appliances that were built to last anyway. Technology is not a good comparison.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:11:35 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Dean Hoffman" wrote:
According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in
1959 to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in
2013.

More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing
work hours needed to buy given items.

If only one could find a job. What did we export then? What do we
export now? Why don't we have decent jobs - because we exported all
the manufacturing.

And how many hours did we have to work then and now to buy our
current largest manufactured export - gasoline and diesel fuel?

When nobody can get a middle class job, who benefits by low prices?

Some, but not all of the unemployment is exporting manufacturing jobs
in favor of cheap labor. Many of our economic problems are still the
after effects of the housing bubble that was caused by banks and
sleazy mortgage brokers.

I've been trying to hire a person for a trainee type maintenance
position. I get two types of applicants. One is the 60+ year old guy
that was making $25 or more an hour. The other is the young guy that
did not finish high school and has a difficult time spelling the name
of the street he lives on. .

As for how much are we paying for oil products, not much. Gas was 22¢
a gallon in 1963. Gas is now 16x that but my wage is 21x what is was
then so I'm ahead.

Lucky you. College grads are having trouble find anything much better than
minimum wage jobs, if that.

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 03:34:29 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:




Lucky you. College grads are having trouble find anything much better than
minimum wage jobs, if that.


Much of the problem is the College Grad themselves. Are they
Mechanical engineers? Biologists? No, many of them took 5th Century
Greek sculpture as a major and wonder why they can't find a job.

I advertised for a Maintenance type of job. One of my applicants took
culinary arts in high school and one year at Johnson & Wales. He
never had a wrench in his hand. He quit a coking job because he did
not like it.

On 10/13/13 12:11 AM, Bob F wrote:
Dean Hoffman" wrote:
According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959
to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.

More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing
work hours needed to buy given items.

If only one could find a job. What did we export then? What do we export now?
Why don't we have decent jobs - because we exported all the manufacturing.

And how many hours did we have to work then and now to buy our current largest
manufactured export - gasoline and diesel fuel?

When nobody can get a middle class job, who benefits by low prices?


Some information here
http://tinyurl.com/6xo3y6 for gas prices.
Gas was the equivalent of $3.87 in 1918, $3.51 in 2013. The lowest
equivalent price was $1.46 in 1998.

On 10/13/13 08:09 am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Lucky you. College grads are having trouble find anything much better than
minimum wage jobs, if that.

Much of the problem is the College Grad themselves. Are they
Mechanical engineers? Biologists? No, many of them took 5th Century
Greek sculpture as a major and wonder why they can't find a job.

But not so many years ago employers were telling young people, "We don't
care what kind of degree you have: the mere fact that you have completed
college makes you a more desirable employee."

Perce

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 23:46:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:15:48 -0500, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:


According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959
to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.

More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work
hours needed to buy given items.


Thanks for posting that. I've often used the "how many hours" in
discussions. Prices on many goods have come down and are of better
quality. Such as the color TV. I also recall paying $5 for a really
good white dress shirt (made in USA) in the early 1960's. Not as good
quality, but you can get shirts for $15 at discount stores (made in
some third world country) .
And the good quality, american dress shirt is about $60, more or
less.

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 03:34:29 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:11:35 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Dean Hoffman" wrote:
According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in
1959 to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in
2013.

More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing
work hours needed to buy given items.

If only one could find a job. What did we export then? What do we
export now? Why don't we have decent jobs - because we exported all
the manufacturing.

And how many hours did we have to work then and now to buy our
current largest manufactured export - gasoline and diesel fuel?

When nobody can get a middle class job, who benefits by low prices?

Some, but not all of the unemployment is exporting manufacturing jobs
in favor of cheap labor. Many of our economic problems are still the
after effects of the housing bubble that was caused by banks and
sleazy mortgage brokers.

I've been trying to hire a person for a trainee type maintenance
position. I get two types of applicants. One is the 60+ year old guy
that was making $25 or more an hour. The other is the young guy that
did not finish high school and has a difficult time spelling the name
of the street he lives on. .

As for how much are we paying for oil products, not much. Gas was 22¢
a gallon in 1963. Gas is now 16x that but my wage is 21x what is was
then so I'm ahead.

Lucky you. College grads are having trouble find anything much better than
minimum wage jobs, if that.

Actually, if they are willing to get their hands dirty, there ARE
jobs out there that pay a half decent wage. They will be tired at the
end of the day, too.
The jobs are not plentiful, but try to hire a mechanic today. And even
with the burst housing bubble, getting good building tradesmen is NOT
easy. Getting GOOD truck drivers is not easy either - but nor is
finding trucking companies willing to pay a decent premium for a good
driver --.

A college degree is not a pre-requisite for these jobs - but given
the choice between thenabove-mentioned applicant who can't spell their
street name and a college grad - the grad has the better chance.

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 09:06:03 -0700, "Tony944" wrote:

SNIPPED

And that website looks about as professional as something
I could put together with a package I can buy at Staples.

Looking and reading your post, 50% you are full of xxxx and other 50%
if you where dragging you bare ass on icy road I would not believe you.
when farmer find half bushel of ratting apples the whole bushel is consider
bad
I hope and people reading this understand what I meant

Would be easier to understand if you could spell and your grammer was
better.

On Sunday, October 13, 2013 2:31:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 23:46:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:



On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:15:48 -0500, Dean Hoffman

" wrote:





According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959

to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.



More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo



One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to

almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work

hours needed to buy given items.





Thanks for posting that. I've often used the "how many hours" in

discussions. Prices on many goods have come down and are of better

quality. Such as the color TV. I also recall paying $5 for a really

good white dress shirt (made in USA) in the early 1960's. Not as good

quality, but you can get shirts for $15 at discount stores (made in

some third world country) .

And the good quality, american dress shirt is about $60, more or

less.

What American dress shirts for $60? I haven't seen one in years.
The typical quality dress shirt made overseas retails for $45 - $60.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message


I've had Medicare for three years now. With a good
supplement, it is a good deal. For two of us, my
premiums are $683 a month.

Hmmm...I've had Medicare for 15 years. I have no supplement - don't need
one, have a Medicare Advantage plan - so my premiums are $0. Moreover, my
plan returns the Medicare part "B" premium that is deducted from one's
social security; that is about $200 for the two of us so I am better than
$10,000 a year up on you

My wife had surgery in April. Total billing so far is
over $100k and still going on. Premiums aside, my total
out of pocket is $0.

Fortunately, we have never had need of such, sorry you have. If we did, we
would be spending some; however, the cost to us would be around $4000 per
year.

We do have a $20 co-pay for specialists, $0 for the primary care physician.
I take a drug for cholesterol, two for high blood pressure and one to ward
off glaucoma; they cost us $0 or very close to it.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 14:21:12 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 10/13/13 08:09 am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Lucky you. College grads are having trouble find anything much better than
minimum wage jobs, if that.

Much of the problem is the College Grad themselves. Are they
Mechanical engineers? Biologists? No, many of them took 5th Century
Greek sculpture as a major and wonder why they can't find a job.

But not so many years ago employers were telling young people, "We don't
care what kind of degree you have: the mere fact that you have completed
college makes you a more desirable employee."

Perce

There is probably some truth to that, but it is not working. If you
earned a college degree, you know how to learn, have some ambition,
and I can train you to do my job. I, OTOH, will not hire you for a
minimum wage low skill job if you have not finished high school. The
kids that drop out are also losers in the workplace. Poor attendance,
poor work habits, etc. (exceptions are those older than 40 or so)

Many good jobs do not require a degree but trade school. I know a guy
having a hard time finding a HVAC tech for $22 an hour. I have five
supervisors, only one with a degree. If I ranked them in order, he is
probably #4 of 5. The one ranked #1 has the least education, but the
most talent for what we do. And a $65k income.

I wonder if it is too easy to get a college degree these days and
aside from specialized skills, even needed. Engineers, doctors,
pharmacists all need a lot of education, but a degree does not make
you a better middle manager, warehouse supervisor, trucking terminal
manager, and the like.

My son has some schooling, but not a degree. He has some talent in the
medical field (where he makes his living) and was asked if he'd like
to be a doctor or surgeon. His reply, "I don't want to take a pay
cut"

On 10/13/13 1:21 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

But not so many years ago employers were telling young people, "We don't
care what kind of degree you have: the mere fact that you have completed
college makes you a more desirable employee."

Perce

I remember a business instructor from many, many moons ago. He
applied for a job at a meatpacking plant. A test was part of the
application process. He did too well on the test and wasn't hired. The
meatpacking people said he would quickly get bored with the job and quit.

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:15:48 -0500, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work
hours needed to buy given items.

In '59, a bank would give you a toaster just for opening a banking
account

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 15:39:41 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message


I've had Medicare for three years now. With a good
supplement, it is a good deal. For two of us, my
premiums are $683 a month.

Hmmm...I've had Medicare for 15 years. I have no supplement - don't need
one, have a Medicare Advantage plan - so my premiums are $0. Moreover, my
plan returns the Medicare part "B" premium that is deducted from one's
social security; that is about $200 for the two of us so I am better than
$10,000 a year up on you

Advantage plans work for some people, but I don't think it is right
for us. Seems many doctors will no longer be accepted in some of the
plans too. Some of the treatment my wife is getting is either not
covered or marginally covered under those plans.

My company reimburses me so I technically have $0 out of pocket
anyway. So why not get the best?




Fortunately, we have never had need of such, sorry you have. If we did, we
would be spending some; however, the cost to us would be around $4000 per
year.

Still not bad if that is the true cash outlay for a major expense.

On 10/12/2013 11:15 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959
to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.

More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work
hours needed to buy given items.


These items are cheaper because of increased automation.

This is also why things like health care and education in part keep
going up because the same number of individuals are required in the process.

Threads talking about the price of shirts are mentioning an item that
has largely gone offshore because factories full of seamstresses are
still needed. Apparel like stockings are still made here as they are
completely machine made.

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 12:25:56 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, October 13, 2013 2:31:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 23:46:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:



On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:15:48 -0500, Dean Hoffman

" wrote:





According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959

to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.



More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo



One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to

almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work

hours needed to buy given items.





Thanks for posting that. I've often used the "how many hours" in

discussions. Prices on many goods have come down and are of better

quality. Such as the color TV. I also recall paying $5 for a really

good white dress shirt (made in USA) in the early 1960's. Not as good

quality, but you can get shirts for $15 at discount stores (made in

some third world country) .

And the good quality, american dress shirt is about $60, more or

less.

What American dress shirts for $60? I haven't seen one in years.
The typical quality dress shirt made overseas retails for $45 - $60.

I buy them for $15-$30, tops. Wait until they're on sale. In the
late Winter, it's pretty easy to find long-sleeved shirts (all I wear)
at a very good price. Last year I found a bunch of nice Oxfords for
about $20.

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 14:21:12 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 10/13/13 08:09 am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Lucky you. College grads are having trouble find anything much better than
minimum wage jobs, if that.

Much of the problem is the College Grad themselves. Are they
Mechanical engineers? Biologists? No, many of them took 5th Century
Greek sculpture as a major and wonder why they can't find a job.

But not so many years ago employers were telling young people, "We don't
care what kind of degree you have: the mere fact that you have completed
college makes you a more desirable employee."

They found that those with a degree in Women's Studies, Black Studies,
or similar, weren't worth more than a high school dropout but their
expectations were quite above their abilities.

Dean Hoffman " wrote:

He has ten other examples of decreasing work hours needed to buy given
items.

And concludes that everybody is getting richer, which is quite
unwarranted unless the time cost of little things like food, housing,
transportation, medical care, education, and taxes are also taken into
account. This kind of half-baked, disingenuous crap is about the only
thing AEI puts out any more. Like many of the other so-called
"conservative" or "free enterprise" organizations, it has largely become
a shill for big business.

Per Dean Hoffman ":
More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo

I wonder where they are getting their inflation multiplier.

When I run $2.09 through
http://www.calculator.net/inflation-calculator.html I get $16.31

http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm and
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ each give $16.80.

Both figures being a long way from American Enterprise Institute's
$19.30.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 10/13/13 5:44 PM, Neill Massello wrote:
Dean Hoffman " wrote:

He has ten other examples of decreasing work hours needed to buy given
items.

And concludes that everybody is getting richer, which is quite
unwarranted unless the time cost of little things like food, housing,
transportation, medical care, education, and taxes are also taken into
account. This kind of half-baked, disingenuous crap is about the only
thing AEI puts out any more. Like many of the other so-called
"conservative" or "free enterprise" organizations, it has largely become
a shill for big business.


Americans are spending less of their disposible income on food as
time goes by. I looked at the U.S. Department of Agriculture site. It
has that type of information but it is unavailable due to the "shutdown".
There is a chart he http://tinyurl.com/3yqoses
Americans spent about 23% of their disposable income in 1930. We were
spending about 9.5% of it by 2010. I wonder why the big spike in the
mid to late 1940s.
Wouldn't it be tough to compare medical costs over time? Doctors
have a bunch of new toys and techniques they didn't have in the past.

Per Ed Pawlowski:
I've been trying to hire a person for a trainee type maintenance
position. I get two types of applicants. One is the 60+ year old guy
that was making $25 or more an hour. The other is the young guy that
did not finish high school and has a difficult time spelling the name
of the street he lives on. .

My son-in-law recently had to hire somebody to help test financial
planning software. He decided that one litmus test was whether the
applicant could demonstrate an understanding of compound interest.

He had to interview twenty-seven *college graduates* before he found
somebody who could.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 19:25:44 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Ed Pawlowski:
I've been trying to hire a person for a trainee type maintenance
position. I get two types of applicants. One is the 60+ year old guy
that was making $25 or more an hour. The other is the young guy that
did not finish high school and has a difficult time spelling the name
of the street he lives on. .

My son-in-law recently had to hire somebody to help test financial
planning software. He decided that one litmus test was whether the
applicant could demonstrate an understanding of compound interest.

He had to interview twenty-seven *college graduates* before he found
somebody who could.

Perhaps now you understand why we elect the people we do.

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 16:44:19 -0600, (Neill
Massello) wrote:

Dean Hoffman " wrote:

He has ten other examples of decreasing work hours needed to buy given
items.

And concludes that everybody is getting richer, which is quite
unwarranted unless the time cost of little things like food, housing,
transportation, medical care, education, and taxes are also taken into
account. This kind of half-baked, disingenuous crap is about the only
thing AEI puts out any more. Like many of the other so-called
"conservative" or "free enterprise" organizations, it has largely become
a shill for big business.

The conclusion is an obvious one. Even the "poor" have cars, multiple
TVs, microwave ovens,...

On Sunday, October 13, 2013 4:25:44 PM UTC-7, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Ed Pawlowski:

I've been trying to hire a person for a trainee type maintenance

position. I get two types of applicants. One is the 60+ year old guy

that was making $25 or more an hour. The other is the young guy that

did not finish high school and has a difficult time spelling the name

of the street he lives on. .



My son-in-law recently had to hire somebody to help test financial

planning software. He decided that one litmus test was whether the

applicant could demonstrate an understanding of compound interest.



He had to interview twenty-seven *college graduates* before he found

somebody who could.

--

Pete Cresswell

I'm not an employer, so please excuse my .02. I agree with every word you said. Have you considered foreign imports? They are usually better educated, and in most cases, have far more work ethic than the semi-literate young-'uns you have been seeing.

Second thought: What is actually wrong with hiring a "60-year-old guy" as long as he can meet your requirements? The recession has wrecked the lives of many respectable, well-qualified workers who THOUGHT they could look forward to a decent retirement with their families. If the older workers can retrain to do what you want, I can guarantee you that they sure as hell know what compound interest is!

On Sunday, October 13, 2013 3:44:19 PM UTC-7, Neill Massello wrote:
Dean Hoffman " wrote:



He has ten other examples of decreasing work hours needed to buy given

items.



And concludes that everybody is getting richer, which is quite

unwarranted unless the time cost of little things like food, housing,

transportation, medical care, education, and taxes are also taken into

account. This kind of half-baked, disingenuous crap is about the only

thing AEI puts out any more. Like many of the other so-called

"conservative" or "free enterprise" organizations, it has largely become

a shill for big business.

Was it ever anything but?

HB

On Sunday, October 13, 2013 6:40:10 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 12:25:56 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:



On Sunday, October 13, 2013 2:31:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 23:46:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:







On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:15:48 -0500, Dean Hoffman



" wrote:











According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959



to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.







More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo







One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to



almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work



hours needed to buy given items.











Thanks for posting that. I've often used the "how many hours" in



discussions. Prices on many goods have come down and are of better



quality. Such as the color TV. I also recall paying $5 for a really



good white dress shirt (made in USA) in the early 1960's. Not as good



quality, but you can get shirts for $15 at discount stores (made in



some third world country) .



And the good quality, american dress shirt is about $60, more or



less.



What American dress shirts for $60? I haven't seen one in years.

The typical quality dress shirt made overseas retails for $45 - $60.



I buy them for $15-$30, tops. Wait until they're on sale. In the

late Winter, it's pretty easy to find long-sleeved shirts (all I wear)

at a very good price. Last year I found a bunch of nice Oxfords for

about $20.


Are these made in America or made overseas? Made overseas, I
agree you can find them at those prices on sale. But at the large
dept stores that typically have the big sales, I haven't seen a
made in America dress shirt in years. Not that I specifically
went looking for one, but I sure haven't noticed any. I would
think there are still some manufacturers left, but I bet they
are expensive.

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 17:33:14 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:

On Sunday, October 13, 2013 4:25:44 PM UTC-7, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Ed Pawlowski:

I've been trying to hire a person for a trainee type maintenance

position. I get two types of applicants. One is the 60+ year old guy

that was making $25 or more an hour. The other is the young guy that

did not finish high school and has a difficult time spelling the name

of the street he lives on. .



My son-in-law recently had to hire somebody to help test financial

planning software. He decided that one litmus test was whether the

applicant could demonstrate an understanding of compound interest.



He had to interview twenty-seven *college graduates* before he found

somebody who could.

--

Pete Cresswell

I'm not an employer, so please excuse my .02. I agree with every word you said. Have you considered foreign imports? They are usually better educated, and in most cases, have far more work ethic than the semi-literate young-'uns you have been seeing.

Second thought: What is actually wrong with hiring a "60-year-old guy" as long as he can meet your requirements? The recession has wrecked the lives of many respectable, well-qualified workers who THOUGHT they could look forward to a decent retirement with their families. If the older workers can retrain to do what you want, I can guarantee you that they sure as hell know what compound interest is!

My boss gives points to "60-year-old guys" when hiring. Finding a
graduate who knows which end of a soldering iron to pick up is nearly
impossible anymore. He did hire a kid (45) recently, though.

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 17:33:53 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:

On Sunday, October 13, 2013 3:44:19 PM UTC-7, Neill Massello wrote:
Dean Hoffman " wrote:



He has ten other examples of decreasing work hours needed to buy given

items.



And concludes that everybody is getting richer, which is quite

unwarranted unless the time cost of little things like food, housing,

transportation, medical care, education, and taxes are also taken into

account. This kind of half-baked, disingenuous crap is about the only

thing AEI puts out any more. Like many of the other so-called

"conservative" or "free enterprise" organizations, it has largely become

a shill for big business.

Was it ever anything but?

Big government? No, of course not.

On 10/13/2013 10:46 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/13/13 12:11 AM, Bob F wrote:
Dean Hoffman" wrote:
According to the Carpe Diem site one had to work 885 hours in 1959
to earn the same goods as one can earn working 170 hours in 2013.

More he http://tinyurl.com/lrq8suo

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing
work hours needed to buy given items.

If only one could find a job. What did we export then? What do we
export now?
Why don't we have decent jobs - because we exported all the
manufacturing.

And how many hours did we have to work then and now to buy our current
largest
manufactured export - gasoline and diesel fuel?

When nobody can get a middle class job, who benefits by low prices?


Some information here
http://tinyurl.com/6xo3y6 for gas prices.
Gas was the equivalent of $3.87 in 1918, $3.51 in 2013. The lowest
equivalent price was $1.46 in 1998.


Pound of salted peanuts $3.50 in Walgreens, today.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 20:50:42 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Pound of salted peanuts $3.50 in Walgreens, today.


How much for Walnuts?

On 10/13/13 5:44 PM, Neill Massello wrote:
Dean Hoffman " wrote:

He has ten other examples of decreasing work hours needed to buy given
items.

And concludes that everybody is getting richer, which is quite
unwarranted unless the time cost of little things like food, housing,
transportation, medical care, education, and taxes are also taken into
account. This kind of half-baked, disingenuous crap is about the only
thing AEI puts out any more. Like many of the other so-called
"conservative" or "free enterprise" organizations, it has largely become
a shill for big business.

A bit here about U.S. house sizes:
http://tinyurl.com/ldc2ms2

House sizes roughly doubled since the 1950s despite family size
decreasing. Houses have been getting a bit smaller lately. Maybe
people are regaining their sanity.

On Sunday, October 13, 2013 3:41:55 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 14:21:12 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"

wrote:



On 10/13/13 08:09 am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:



Lucky you. College grads are having trouble find anything much better than

minimum wage jobs, if that.



Much of the problem is the College Grad themselves. Are they

Mechanical engineers? Biologists? No, many of them took 5th Century

Greek sculpture as a major and wonder why they can't find a job.



But not so many years ago employers were telling young people, "We don't

care what kind of degree you have: the mere fact that you have completed

college makes you a more desirable employee."



Perce



There is probably some truth to that, but it is not working.

Yeah, there is some truth to it. If you were looking to fill
certain positions and you had a choice between someone who
got a degree of any kind, ie English, political science, etc,
and someone who had no college, the college degree would be
worth something.

But it's been well known for decades that a degree in engineering,
science, etc has a lot more value than a degree in history.
And those graduates are still doing pretty much OK today. If
you got a degree in mechanical engineering and took a few
computer courses, you can probably find a job as a programmer,
web designer, etc. If you get a degree in political science
and don't take any computer courses, well good luck. But it's
always been like that.




If you

earned a college degree, you know how to learn, have some ambition,

and I can train you to do my job. I, OTOH, will not hire you for a

minimum wage low skill job if you have not finished high school. The

kids that drop out are also losers in the workplace. Poor attendance,

poor work habits, etc. (exceptions are those older than 40 or so)



Many good jobs do not require a degree but trade school. I know a guy

having a hard time finding a HVAC tech for $22 an hour.

And those jobs also offer the opportunity to start your
own business after you've got experience.




I have five

supervisors, only one with a degree. If I ranked them in order, he is

probably #4 of 5. The one ranked #1 has the least education, but the

most talent for what we do. And a $65k income.



I wonder if it is too easy to get a college degree these days and

aside from specialized skills, even needed. Engineers, doctors,

pharmacists all need a lot of education, but a degree does not make

you a better middle manager, warehouse supervisor, trucking terminal

manager, and the like.


I'd love to see some statistics on whether an MBA really makes
you a better manager and if so, by how much. Some of the best
and most successful managers, eg Andy Grove, had no business degree.
Neither did the Intel founders, Gordon Moore and Bob Noyce. Or
Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jack Welch, etc. Probably 95% of business
management is either common sense or thing that can't be learned
at a college.





My son has some schooling, but not a degree. He has some talent in the

medical field (where he makes his living) and was asked if he'd like

to be a doctor or surgeon. His reply, "I don't want to take a pay

cut"

Not to mention all the $$$$ for all the years of additional school
and the lost income. Which goes back to what you said about learning
a trade, like HVAC or plumbing. Look at what 4 years at a good college
costs today. With a lot less money, you could start that HVAC business or
some other small business. Or put the $200K into an investment
fund. Not saying college isn't worth it, but
if you're going to go, you better make sure you pick a degree where
the return is going to be worth it.

On 10/13/2013 4:06 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:15:48 -0500, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work
hours needed to buy given items.

In '59, a bank would give you a toaster just for opening a banking
account

Now they give you a bank if you buy a toaster?


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 21:06:37 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 10/13/2013 4:06 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 22:15:48 -0500, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:

One would work about 28 hours to buy a gas stove in 2013 compared to
almost 91 hours in 1959. He has ten other examples of decreasing work
hours needed to buy given items.

In '59, a bank would give you a toaster just for opening a banking
account

Now they give you a bank if you buy a toaster?


No, no, no. Now they foreclose on the toaster?

On 10/13/2013 8:33 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

I'm not an employer, so please excuse my .02. I agree with every word you said. Have you considered foreign imports? They are usually better educated, and in most cases, have far more work ethic than the semi-literate young-'uns you have been seeing.


Yes, we have a couple of them.

Second thought: What is actually wrong with hiring a "60-year-old guy" as long as he can meet your requirements? The recession has wrecked the lives of many respectable, well-qualified workers who THOUGHT they could look forward to a decent retirement with their families. If the older workers can retrain to do what you want, I can guarantee you that they sure as hell know what compound interest is!


Nothing, but they are skilled and experienced people not interested in
doing menial work for low wages. They want and are worth double the
wages this entry level position pays. We have a lot of over 60 people
and in the past couple of years we had two retire at age 76 and 74. Half
our workforce is over 50,

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 09:06:03 -0700, "Tony944" wrote:

SNIPPED

And that website looks about as professional as something
I could put together with a package I can buy at Staples.

Looking and reading your post, 50% you are full of xxxx and other 50%
if you where dragging you bare ass on icy road I would not believe you.
when farmer find half bushel of ratting apples the whole bushel is
consider
bad
I hope and people reading this understand what I meant

Would be easier to understand if you could spell and your grammer was
better.

My Dear you are absolutely right I wish that I had more education.
However some time is not if you can spell but what you can do
and if you willing get little dirty. If you want to know more about me
check address below.
Remember not to judge book by it's cover

http://www.bubblews.com/account/34970-tony258/posts?p=3