On Sunday, October 13, 2013 3:41:55 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 14:21:12 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"

wrote:



On 10/13/13 08:09 am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:



Lucky you. College grads are having trouble find anything much better than

minimum wage jobs, if that.



Much of the problem is the College Grad themselves. Are they

Mechanical engineers? Biologists? No, many of them took 5th Century

Greek sculpture as a major and wonder why they can't find a job.



But not so many years ago employers were telling young people, "We don't

care what kind of degree you have: the mere fact that you have completed

college makes you a more desirable employee."



Perce



There is probably some truth to that, but it is not working.

Yeah, there is some truth to it. If you were looking to fill
certain positions and you had a choice between someone who
got a degree of any kind, ie English, political science, etc,
and someone who had no college, the college degree would be
worth something.

But it's been well known for decades that a degree in engineering,
science, etc has a lot more value than a degree in history.
And those graduates are still doing pretty much OK today. If
you got a degree in mechanical engineering and took a few
computer courses, you can probably find a job as a programmer,
web designer, etc. If you get a degree in political science
and don't take any computer courses, well good luck. But it's
always been like that.




If you

earned a college degree, you know how to learn, have some ambition,

and I can train you to do my job. I, OTOH, will not hire you for a

minimum wage low skill job if you have not finished high school. The

kids that drop out are also losers in the workplace. Poor attendance,

poor work habits, etc. (exceptions are those older than 40 or so)



Many good jobs do not require a degree but trade school. I know a guy

having a hard time finding a HVAC tech for $22 an hour.

And those jobs also offer the opportunity to start your
own business after you've got experience.




I have five

supervisors, only one with a degree. If I ranked them in order, he is

probably #4 of 5. The one ranked #1 has the least education, but the

most talent for what we do. And a $65k income.



I wonder if it is too easy to get a college degree these days and

aside from specialized skills, even needed. Engineers, doctors,

pharmacists all need a lot of education, but a degree does not make

you a better middle manager, warehouse supervisor, trucking terminal

manager, and the like.


I'd love to see some statistics on whether an MBA really makes
you a better manager and if so, by how much. Some of the best
and most successful managers, eg Andy Grove, had no business degree.
Neither did the Intel founders, Gordon Moore and Bob Noyce. Or
Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jack Welch, etc. Probably 95% of business
management is either common sense or thing that can't be learned
at a college.





My son has some schooling, but not a degree. He has some talent in the

medical field (where he makes his living) and was asked if he'd like

to be a doctor or surgeon. His reply, "I don't want to take a pay

cut"

Not to mention all the $$$$ for all the years of additional school
and the lost income. Which goes back to what you said about learning
a trade, like HVAC or plumbing. Look at what 4 years at a good college
costs today. With a lot less money, you could start that HVAC business or
some other small business. Or put the $200K into an investment
fund. Not saying college isn't worth it, but
if you're going to go, you better make sure you pick a degree where
the return is going to be worth it.