This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.

What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
that.

I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.

Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???

Thx,
P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

Puddin' Man wrote:
This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from
06-17-12.

What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's,
Some Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more
difficult than that.

No, it is much easier. Or can be.
______________

I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and
reliable/durable.

Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple
mortise and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???

Yeah, I've built them that big. Flush doors. My methodology...

1. Rip 3/4" thick x 1 1/2 wide strips off a 2x4 or your choice of wood.

2. Lay them out on a flat surface butting and gluing the rails to the
stiles. Clamp in position after assuring they are square.

3. Drill through stiles from outside into top & bottom rails and glue in 2 -
1/4", 5/16" or 3/8" dowels at each corner. For a door of that size I'd
probably also use a wider - 2" to 3" - center stile butted to top & bottom
rails.

4. Glue and dowel in internal rails. At least two. Wider than the
perimeter pieces is a plus though not much of one. If you use a center
stile, offset the internal rails so you can drill into their ends through
all the stiles.

5. After the glue dries, you have a frame of the correct size. A rather
delicate frame but a flat one. Next step is to glue 1/4" plywood on both
sides to all rails and stiles; once that is done the door will be strong and
rigid. Try to get plywood that lies flat as possible. To glue to internal
rails/stile you will have to weight and/or nail.

For the perimeter rails and stiles, you can use clamps but you need a lot.
You can make a bunch inexpensively by getting 10' lengths of 2" or 2 1/2"
PVC, sawing it into rings about an inch in width and then making a saw kerf
through one side of the width. What you wind up with are a bunch of "C"
shaped spring clamps. They aren't very strong but are more than adequate
for gluing on the ply. Especially if you use them 3-4" apart. The greater
in diameter the original PVC pipe, the weaker the clamps; greater width of
the rings gives greater pressure.

The ply will have a tendency to slide so unless you have nailed it, take
care in getting one side even to but a bit wider than the stile; that
enables you to trim off excess ply without cutting into your stiles.

If you can use a thicker door, I would. The one above will be 1.25 (if the
ply is exact or if you have adjusted rail/stile thickness to compensate) but
there isn't very much wood for hinge screws. You can get more wood by using
thicker rails/stiles and thinner ply...HD/Lowes carry "door skins" that are
1/8". That is plenty thick enough as the only thing the ply is actually
doing is holding the frame together and square. With either 1/8 or 1/4 ply
you will wind up with a light weight door that is strong.

For glue, I would suggest Titebond ll. Titebond lll if you are anal

BTW, the same construction works well for cabinet doors and partitions. You
can make them pretty much any thickness from 3/4" up (using 1/2" thick
rails/stiles and 1/8 ply or hardboard).

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Jul 11, 7:58*am, Puddin' Man wrote:
This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.

What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
that.

I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.

Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???

Make it out of 5/8" MDO plywood and attach 1x trim or strips of MDO to
create the panel. Do not make it out of construction lumber unless
you like the look of warped with gaps.

R

On Jul 11, 7:58*am, Puddin' Man wrote:
This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.

What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
that.

I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.

Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???

* Thx,
* P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."


32 X 80 is a standard door size, so I assume you mean
you can't find just a door without the frame that will fit?
So, why not just buy a pre-hung and change the whole
thing? That's how it's usually done and would seem to
me to be a whole lot easier and require less tools, skills,
fitting, etc than building a door. Also, since this door is
sagging, it would seem to me that replacing the whole
thing is the correct route.

On 7/11/2012 8:17 AM, G. Morgan wrote:
Puddin' Man wrote:
....

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
....

A local door installer will have the connections to get a new wooden
section if that's all you need. ...

Don't mess with springs or a cable under load if you don't know what
you're doing - they can maim and kill you.
....

You clearly missed the earlier referred-to posting...

NB the size...this is a wooden entry door not the OH...

--

On 7/11/2012 7:58 AM, Puddin' Man wrote:

This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.

What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
that.

I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.

Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???

Thx,
P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."


Did you try a real supply house? Around here there are at least two I
know of that will happily get a door slab for you.

On Jul 11, 9:43*am, dpb wrote:
On 7/11/2012 8:17 AM, G. Morgan wrote: Puddin' Man wrote:

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

A local door installer will have the connections to get a new wooden
section if that's all you need. *...

Don't mess with springs or a cable under load if you don't know what
you're doing - they can maim and kill you.

You clearly missed the earlier referred-to posting...

NB the size...this is a wooden entry door not the OH...

I read it to be an odd-sized garage door panel, but it could be either
I suppose. If it's a door, it's not a not uncommon size and would be
cheap to buy.

R

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 06:58:26 -0500, Puddin' Man
wrote:


This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.

What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
that.

I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.

Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???

Thx,
P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

If you can't fix your door - and you were given instructions here -
why would you even think of making a door?
Doors are sold all over, cheap.
You want to make some windows and cabinets too?
Different story, different tools, and different discussion.
I've done some woodworking, with fairly expensive saws/routers/dadoes.
Wouldn't even think about making a garage entry door.
They're cheap as hell to buy.
And if I did want to make one, I'd study the "art" of door-making
first. Doubt you'll find many door-makers here.
But it's worth talking about. And that's my 2 cents.

--
Vic

On 7/11/2012 6:58 AM, Puddin' Man wrote:
....

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

That's hard to conceive there's nowhere in any place of any size at all
that doesn't have a "veritable plethora" of salvage building
materials...where are you located?

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
....

As far as slab construction others have mentioned it's not particularly
difficult (but then again, I don't see rebuilding what you have as
particularly difficult, either). If the problem perceived is one of the
opening being open while the weather's hot, as noted before a very
temporary piece of ply and a couple of tubafor's can close up the hole
while you're working on the door...

Actually, if you have "the right stuff" even panel doors aren't terribly
complex. Typically full-size doors use full-length or at least long
tenons instead of the "stub" tenons common on raised panel doors of
kitchen cabinets and the ilk. This means one needs an undercut pattern
bit to make the coping cut to match the stile cut. These cutter sets
are much harder to come by than the kitchen cabinet type. OTOH, it is
possible to either use loose tenons or just dowels...

But, there are a few manufacturers who have started recently--I like to
think my complaining has had some effect in this trend altho I don't
know it other than I did have several conversations w/ Lonnie Bird when
he was hawking for CMT about the lack and they introduced a set shortly
after. Other manufacturers have followed suit so apparently they're
selling enough of 'em to keep going...

Here's link to one of my favorite suppliers...Amana Tool--not cheap but
_very_ good. For a "one off" CMT, Whiteside or if you can find it in
some of the imports will last that long...

http://www.amanatool.com/routerbits/stubspindle-copecutterdoors.html

For your case you would use the 'screen door' set w/ slightly thicker
material.

What have you available to work with???

Also note as somebody else has the caveats about material--plain-sawn
construction tubaX material isn't going to be very stable in all
likelihood. If you can find and select material, Doug fir kiln dried
and selected to be near to quarter sawn would be a good choice. There's
almost no clear white pine on the retail market any longer; it all goes
directly to the window/door manufacturers straight from the mill or for
export--I tried to by some stock for new windows for the barn a couple
years ago and finally just gave it up as impossible for less than full
bundle quantities at higher than hardwood prices...

--

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 06:58:26 -0500, Puddin' Man
wrote:


This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.

What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
that.

I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.

Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???

Thx,
P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."
I've seen doors made quite simply with full lap joints at the
corners, glued and through dowelled. Cut the rabbets in the rails with
a table saw(dado) or router. Same with the lap joints. Much simpler
than Mortise and Tenon and almost as strong.

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 08:17:03 -0500, G. Morgan
wrote:

Puddin' Man wrote:


This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.

What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
that.

I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.

Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???

A local door installer will have the connections to get a new wooden
section if that's all you need. Post a pic, and I'll identify it and
source a replacement out of Houston. Local is better though, if you are
in Houston you're in luck - I know a great installer.

If you find where door companies drop their "dead doors" in the back,
you may find a old section in near perfect shape in the dumpster. They
won't mind if you take it, they have to pay to dispose of them.

Or ask one of the guys to save you a decent section from a job, and let
him install it for $75 or so. Chances are good he has some in his
backyard for that exact purpose.

Don't mess with springs or a cable under load if you don't know what
you're doing - they can maim and kill you.





I believe the discussion was for the "man door"

On Jul 11, 10:21*am, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 06:58:26 -0500, Puddin' Man





wrote:

This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.

What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
that.

I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable..

Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???

*Thx,
*P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

If you can't fix your door - and you were given instructions here -
why would you even think of making a door?
Doors are sold all over, cheap.
You want to make some windows and cabinets too?
Different story, different tools, and different discussion.
I've done some woodworking, with fairly expensive saws/routers/dadoes.
Wouldn't even think about making a garage entry door.
They're cheap as hell to buy.

+1 to that. And 32 x 80 is a standard size that's readily
availalbe. I think he's likely trying to fit just the door
itself into the existing frame, instead of just getting a pre-hung and
changing the whole thing. I would just change the whole thing, even
if there were no other issues. In his case, the door is sagging, so
to not change the frame would be a big mistake.

Probably time to call a pro.

On Jul 11, 11:28*am, "
wrote:
On Jul 11, 10:21*am, Vic Smith
wrote:





On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 06:58:26 -0500, Puddin' Man

wrote:

This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12..

What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
that.

I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.

Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???

*Thx,
*P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

If you can't fix your door - and you were given instructions here -
why would you even think of making a door?
Doors are sold all over, cheap.
You want to make some windows and cabinets too?
Different story, different tools, and different discussion.
I've done some woodworking, with fairly expensive saws/routers/dadoes.
Wouldn't even think about making a garage entry door.
They're cheap as hell to buy.

+1 to that. *And 32 x 80 is a standard size that's readily
availalbe. *I think he's likely trying to fit just the door
itself into the existing frame, instead of just getting a pre-hung and
changing the whole thing. * I would just change the whole thing, even
if there were no other issues. *In his case, the door is sagging, so
to not change the frame would be a big mistake.

Probably time to call a pro.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

+1 again.

I thought about repairing the side door into my garage, mainly because
the wooden threshold was looking pretty bad. The closer I looked at
what needed to be done, the more evident it was that replacing it all
with a pre-hung door was the best idea.

The short block wall on both sides of the original jamb was
deteriorating. In addition, trying to get the sill out and replace it
without removing the entire jamb anyway would have been very
difficult. It was much easier to just rip it out, repair the block,
add some more support in the threshold area and drop a pre-hung door
in the RO.

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 06:40:39 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

32 X 80 is a standard door size, so I assume you mean
you can't find just a door without the frame that will fit?

That's one potential problem. But the biggest is the
thickness. I foresee problems mounting a 1 3/4"
door in opening designed for 1 1/4".

So, why not just buy a pre-hung and change the whole
thing? That's how it's usually done and would seem to
me to be a whole lot easier and require less tools, skills,
fitting, etc than building a door. Also, since this door is
sagging, it would seem to me that replacing the whole
thing is the correct route.

Too much hassle and expense. Frame looks OK for the
application.

To a material extent, I'd *like* to make my own b/c
I can do it in my nice, cool bsmt. workshop whilst
the old door secures the gar. It's too damned hot
outside (and my health is failing).

P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

Many Thanks. I'll study on this for a bit.

P

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:34:08 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:

No, it is much easier. Or can be.
______________

I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and
reliable/durable.

Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple
mortise and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???

Yeah, I've built them that big. Flush doors. My methodology...

1. Rip 3/4" thick x 1 1/2 wide strips off a 2x4 or your choice of wood.

2. Lay them out on a flat surface butting and gluing the rails to the
stiles. Clamp in position after assuring they are square.

3. Drill through stiles from outside into top & bottom rails and glue in 2 -
1/4", 5/16" or 3/8" dowels at each corner. For a door of that size I'd
probably also use a wider - 2" to 3" - center stile butted to top & bottom
rails.

4. Glue and dowel in internal rails. At least two. Wider than the
perimeter pieces is a plus though not much of one. If you use a center
stile, offset the internal rails so you can drill into their ends through
all the stiles.

5. After the glue dries, you have a frame of the correct size. A rather
delicate frame but a flat one. Next step is to glue 1/4" plywood on both
sides to all rails and stiles; once that is done the door will be strong and
rigid. Try to get plywood that lies flat as possible. To glue to internal
rails/stile you will have to weight and/or nail.

For the perimeter rails and stiles, you can use clamps but you need a lot.
You can make a bunch inexpensively by getting 10' lengths of 2" or 2 1/2"
PVC, sawing it into rings about an inch in width and then making a saw kerf
through one side of the width. What you wind up with are a bunch of "C"
shaped spring clamps. They aren't very strong but are more than adequate
for gluing on the ply. Especially if you use them 3-4" apart. The greater
in diameter the original PVC pipe, the weaker the clamps; greater width of
the rings gives greater pressure.

The ply will have a tendency to slide so unless you have nailed it, take
care in getting one side even to but a bit wider than the stile; that
enables you to trim off excess ply without cutting into your stiles.

If you can use a thicker door, I would. The one above will be 1.25 (if the
ply is exact or if you have adjusted rail/stile thickness to compensate) but
there isn't very much wood for hinge screws. You can get more wood by using
thicker rails/stiles and thinner ply...HD/Lowes carry "door skins" that are
1/8". That is plenty thick enough as the only thing the ply is actually
doing is holding the frame together and square. With either 1/8 or 1/4 ply
you will wind up with a light weight door that is strong.

For glue, I would suggest Titebond ll. Titebond lll if you are anal

BTW, the same construction works well for cabinet doors and partitions. You
can make them pretty much any thickness from 3/4" up (using 1/2" thick
rails/stiles and 1/8 ply or hardboard).

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:27:11 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/11/2012 6:58 AM, Puddin' Man wrote:
...

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

That's hard to conceive there's nowhere in any place of any size at all
that doesn't have a "veritable plethora" of salvage building
materials...where are you located?

St. Louis, MO. They've all got "something": nothing fit all
that well.

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
...

As far as slab construction others have mentioned it's not particularly
difficult (but then again, I don't see rebuilding what you have as
particularly difficult, either). If the problem perceived is one of the
opening being open while the weather's hot, as noted before a very
temporary piece of ply and a couple of tubafor's can close up the hole
while you're working on the door...

Actually, if you have "the right stuff" even panel doors aren't terribly
complex. Typically full-size doors use full-length or at least long
tenons instead of the "stub" tenons common on raised panel doors of
kitchen cabinets and the ilk. This means one needs an undercut pattern
bit to make the coping cut to match the stile cut. These cutter sets
are much harder to come by than the kitchen cabinet type. OTOH, it is
possible to either use loose tenons or just dowels...

But, there are a few manufacturers who have started recently--I like to
think my complaining has had some effect in this trend altho I don't
know it other than I did have several conversations w/ Lonnie Bird when
he was hawking for CMT about the lack and they introduced a set shortly
after. Other manufacturers have followed suit so apparently they're
selling enough of 'em to keep going...

Here's link to one of my favorite suppliers...Amana Tool--not cheap but
_very_ good. For a "one off" CMT, Whiteside or if you can find it in
some of the imports will last that long...

http://www.amanatool.com/routerbits/stubspindle-copecutterdoors.html

For your case you would use the 'screen door' set w/ slightly thicker
material.

Neat.

What have you available to work with???

Not all that much, really. Bsmt workshop. Craftsman TS. Little 1/4" router, in
table. Drill press. Some pipe clamps, hand tools.

Also note as somebody else has the caveats about material--plain-sawn
construction tubaX material isn't going to be very stable in all
likelihood.

And I'm sorta taking that to heart. :-(

If you can find and select material, Doug fir kiln dried
and selected to be near to quarter sawn would be a good choice. There's
almost no clear white pine on the retail market any longer; it all goes
directly to the window/door manufacturers straight from the mill or for
export--I tried to by some stock for new windows for the barn a couple
years ago and finally just gave it up as impossible for less than full
bundle quantities at higher than hardwood prices...

Thanks,
P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

On Jul 11, 12:36*pm, Puddin' Man wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 06:40:39 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

32 X 80 is a standard door size, so I assume you mean
you can't find just a door without the frame that will fit?

That's one potential problem. But the biggest is the
thickness. I foresee problems mounting a 1 3/4"
door in opening designed for 1 1/4".

Why do you think that that will be an issue? If hinged correctly,
wouldn't the thicker door just extend past the narrower jamb? Scab a
piece of 3/4 x 1/2 wood around the jamb as an extension, fill the seam
with wood putty, paint and no one will ever know. You'll need to do a
little work on the lockset openings, but you could fill in that
section of the jamb with new wood and cut new holes.

I'm just tossing that out there...perhaps you know something that will
prevent you from doing that.

BTW...Have you looked at a home-parts store, the places that sell old
doors, windows, etc.? The places near me have hundreds of doors of all
styles, sizes and thicknesses. I just picked up a 6-panel pine door, a
jamb, 2 hinges and a lockset for under $30 total for my son's basement
apartment.



So, why not just buy a pre-hung and change the whole
thing? * That's how it's usually done and would seem to
me to be a whole lot easier and require less tools, skills,
fitting, etc than building a door. *Also, since this door is
sagging, it would seem to me that replacing the whole
thing is the correct route.

Too much hassle and expense. Frame looks OK for the
application.

Installing a pre-hung door is more hassle than building a new door
from scratch? Really? Nothing personal, but you came here asking "How
difficult is it to "build" a door?" If you don't already know how to
build a door, how do you know it's less hassle than installing a
prehung door?

If you can find a used one at a house parts place, I'll bet it will be
cheaper than the material to build a new one.


To a material extent, I'd *like* to make my own b/c
I can do it in my nice, cool bsmt. workshop whilst
the old door secures the gar.

Of course, there a lot to be said for "I built that!" No argument
there.

It's too damned hot outside (and my health is failing).

It will get cooler you know. ;-)

On Jul 11, 12:36*pm, Puddin' Man wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 06:40:39 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

32 X 80 is a standard door size, so I assume you mean
you can't find just a door without the frame that will fit?

That's one potential problem. But the biggest is the
thickness. I foresee problems mounting a 1 3/4"
door in opening designed for 1 1/4".

So, why not just buy a pre-hung and change the whole
thing? * That's how it's usually done and would seem to
me to be a whole lot easier and require less tools, skills,
fitting, etc than building a door. *Also, since this door is
sagging, it would seem to me that replacing the whole
thing is the correct route.

Too much hassle and expense. Frame looks OK for the
application.


You can get a basic pre-hung entry door for $100. What is
it going to cost to construct a door? As for
hassle, it's far simpler to put in a pre-hung door than it is
to build your own door. Much harder to screw up too.
That's why pros do it that way.

As for aggravation, wait until you've spent hours
building the door, many more hours of aggravation
because it won't fit, close, etc in the frame from the
previously sagging door, etc....




To a material extent, I'd *like* to make my own b/c
I can do it in my nice, cool bsmt. workshop whilst
the old door secures the gar. It's too damned hot
outside (and my health is failing).


Can you wait until Fall? Taking out an old
door, frame and all and replacing it should be a one
day job. At least to the point that it's secure again.
You could take off the trim day 1. Then pull the
old door and get the new one in day 2. If needed
just secure the door with a piece of wood instead
of a lock. Day 3 install lock, trim, etc.

On 7/11/2012 9:13 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Jul 11, 9:43 am, wrote:
....

NB the size...this is a wooden entry door not the OH...

I read it to be an odd-sized garage door panel, but it could be either
I suppose. If it's a door, it's not a not uncommon size and would be
cheap to buy.
....

It's the entry door; as he says he had another thread earlier in which
he posted link to picture(s)...

--

On Jul 11, 5:58*am, Puddin' Man wrote:
This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.

What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
that.

I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.

Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???

* Thx,
* P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

If the door opens inward, the extra thickness doesn't matter. If it
opens outward, the you need a thinner door. I would personally start
with a piece of 3/4 inch plywood the door size, and then add trim to
make up the edges to whatever thickness you want/need. We're talking a
couple of hours, plus glue drying times, and can be done in your
basement.

Your choice of saying garage door has caused confusion to some folks
who thought you meant an odd-sized overhead opening car garage door.
You should have said "garage side door"

On 7/11/2012 12:11 PM, Puddin' Man wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:27:11 -0500, wrote:

On 7/11/2012 6:58 AM, Puddin' Man wrote:
...

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

That's hard to conceive there's nowhere in any place of any size at all
that doesn't have a "veritable plethora" of salvage building
materials...where are you located?

St. Louis, MO. They've all got "something": nothing fit all
that well.

Perhat Lumber
314.481.9302
6023 S. Broadway, St. Louis, MO 63111
accepts and sell architectural salvage, used lumber, used doors,
used brick, asphalt kettles, and various building materials

Surprised I couldn't find much else online...there's _got_ to be
somewhere w/ a whole pile of used doors to go through...

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
...

....

Here's link to one of my favorite suppliers...Amana Tool--not cheap but
_very_ good. For a "one off" CMT, Whiteside or if you can find it in
some of the imports will last that long...

http://www.amanatool.com/routerbits/stubspindle-copecutterdoors.html

For your case you would use the 'screen door' set w/ slightly thicker
material.

Neat.

What have you available to work with???

Not all that much, really. Bsmt workshop. Craftsman TS. Little 1/4" router, in
table. Drill press. Some pipe clamps, hand tools.

....

Can't spin a set of these except in large table-mounted router,
unfortunately, sorry...but, you're perfect excuse to upgrade!

I'm still of the mind to suggest keep looking for more recycle places or
just keep checking the stock at places you've tried or just bite the
bullet and rebuild the one you have.

I really think you'll find it less daunting in practice than the
trepidation before beginning. And, just think, once you've started then
you _have_ to finish!

--

On Jul 11, 1:35*pm, dpb wrote:
On 7/11/2012 9:13 AM, RicodJour wrote: On Jul 11, 9:43 am, *wrote:

...

NB the size...this is a wooden entry door not the OH...

I read it to be an odd-sized garage door panel, but it could be either
I suppose. *If it's a door, it's not a not uncommon size and would be
cheap to buy.

...

It's the entry door; as he says he had another thread earlier in which
he posted link to picture(s)...

--

I wonder how many other posters are replying thinking
he's talking about a panel from an overhead garage door,
as opposed to the garage entry door. I just can't see
building one when it's a std size door where a pre-hung
can be had for $100. Even if I could buy a door minus
frame that might work, I would replace the whole thing,
especially given that the prior door was "sagging".
With a pre-hung it goes in and you don't have all the
alignment, fitting issues to deal with.

On Jul 11, 1:55*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Jul 11, 5:58*am, Puddin' Man wrote:





This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from 06-17-12.

What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

I look at the rail and stile construction and think "A Mess Of 2x8's, Some
Plywood (for panels) And A Table Saw". Of course, it's more difficult than
that.

I don't need anything particular fancy, just secure and reliable/durable.

Anybody built one? Can anybody help with little details? Simple mortise
and tenon? Which (exterior) glue? Fasteners???

* Thx,
* P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

If the door opens inward, the extra thickness doesn't matter. *If it
opens outward, the you need *a thinner door. *I would personally start
with a piece of 3/4 inch plywood the door size, and then add trim *to
make up the edges to whatever thickness you want/need. We're talking a
couple of hours, plus glue drying times, and can be done in your
basement.

Your choice of saying garage door has caused confusion to some folks
who thought you meant an odd-sized overhead opening car garage door.
You should have said "garage side door"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Until when he goes to install it, he has alignment problems
because the old door was sagging. And what do the hinge
screws wind up going into on a door made of plywood with
just trim pieces around the perimeter? Will he get the
hinge alignment done right? Plywood could also warp
and it doesn't take much on a door to foul everthing up.

All in all, I'm just not getting screwing around with all the
issues, re-inventing the wheel so to speak, versus just
putting in a $100 pre-hung door, probably metal,
that's ready to go. It's less work and far less potential
for screw ups and failure.

On Jul 11, 2:06*pm, dpb wrote:
On 7/11/2012 12:11 PM, Puddin' Man wrote: On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:27:11 -0500, *wrote:

On 7/11/2012 6:58 AM, Puddin' Man wrote:
...

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

That's hard to conceive there's nowhere in any place of any size at all
that doesn't have a "veritable plethora" of salvage building
materials...where are you located?

St. Louis, MO. They've all got "something": nothing fit all
that well.

Perhat Lumber
* * *314.481.9302
* * *6023 S. Broadway, St. Louis, MO 63111
* * *accepts and sell architectural salvage, used lumber, used doors,
used brick, asphalt kettles, and various building materials

Surprised I couldn't find much else online...there's _got_ to be
somewhere w/ a whole pile of used doors to go through...

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
...

...





Here's link to one of my favorite suppliers...Amana Tool--not cheap but
_very_ good. *For a "one off" CMT, Whiteside or if you can find it in
some of the imports will last that long...

http://www.amanatool.com/routerbits/stubspindle-copecutterdoors.html

For your case you would use the 'screen door' set w/ slightly thicker
material.

Neat.

What have you available to work with???

Not all that much, really. Bsmt workshop. Craftsman TS. Little 1/4" router, in
table. Drill press. Some pipe clamps, hand tools.

...

Can't spin a set of these except in large table-mounted router,
unfortunately, sorry...but, you're perfect excuse to upgrade! *

I'm still of the mind to suggest keep looking for more recycle places or
just keep checking the stock at places you've tried or just bite the
bullet and rebuild the one you have.

I really think you'll find it less daunting in practice than the
trepidation before beginning. *And, just think, once you've started then
you _have_ to finish! *

--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

80x32 is a standard size. Besides saying that he can't
find a "suitable" replacement he hasn't made clear what
the exact fitment issue is. I think it's that he's refusing
to use a pre-hung door because for some reason he
thinks replacing the door and the frame is a big deal,
expensive and harder than constructing a door.
So, I suspect he's trying to find a door, minus the frame
that will exactly fit what he has there now. And that
isn't likely to be solved by a trip to the salvage yard
or anyplace else. Even if he finds something, I
think he's underestimating what it takes to then
get it to work.

Also, the other point I've been trying to get across
is that he had a problem with the old door "sagging".
What are the chances that the existing frame is
perfectly square? Replace the whole thing with a
pre-hung door for $100 and it's a sure solution,
less work than making and hanging just a door,
and drama free.

On 7/11/2012 1:09 PM, wrote:
On Jul 11, 1:35 pm, wrote:
....

It's the entry door; as he says he had another thread earlier in which
he posted link to picture(s)...
....

I wonder how many other posters are replying thinking
he's talking about a panel from an overhead garage door,
as opposed to the garage entry door. I just can't see
building one when it's a std size door where a pre-hung
can be had for $100. Even if I could buy a door minus
frame that might work, I would replace the whole thing,
especially given that the prior door was "sagging".
With a pre-hung it goes in and you don't have all the
alignment, fitting issues to deal with.

OP is probably a lot like I am--he'll spend inordinate amount of time to
save something old just on the general principle of the thing...

I don't see building a whole new door as permanent solution here,
either; the door in the pictures posted didn't really look to be in
_that_ bad of shape; it's a little effort to refurbish one but nothing
of great complexity, just a little patience and care in dissasembling
w/o destroying...

As noted elsewhere, I've done any number of these over the years from
the garages and shops here on the farm to some gorgeous antebellum 40x96
entry doors in old restoration work in Lynchburg, VA. Those, of course,
and many of the other entry and general interior and exterior doors and
windows were well worth considerable effort given their age and general
architectural significance for the restorations underway.

Knox Rail Salvage in downtown Knoxville, TN, generally would have
several hundred doors from recent trashed rentals hollow-cores w/ knoced
thru holes in a face to salvaged exterior double entries from rework
mansions being retrofitted. Somewhere in there would always be half a
dozen or more of just what OP needs in good shape for probably $25 or
less...

I think I mentioned in the previous thread of picking up a pair of slab
walnut 7- or 8-ft office doors for a pittance because were intended for
a business remodel but one had received a large scratch on one face so
they tossed the both and ordered new for the job...I had intention of
desk and/or table tops but they're still in the barn...another oak slab
from the same clutch is the top for the office desk here, though.

--

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:25:37 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

You can get a basic pre-hung entry door for $100. What is
it going to cost to construct a door?

A good bit less than $100, the way I (mistakenly) conceptualized it.

As for
hassle, it's far simpler to put in a pre-hung door than it is
to build your own door. Much harder to screw up too.
That's why pros do it that way.

As for aggravation, wait until you've spent hours
building the door, many more hours of aggravation
because it won't fit, close, etc in the frame from the
previously sagging door, etc....

Try this: the garage was built in 1955. There is no
frame around this door, just double 2x4's. Shoddy
construction, I suppose, but that's how they
sometimes did it back then.

I had hoped for a simple fix. Doesn't now look that
way.

P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

On Jul 11, 3:22*pm, Puddin' Man wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:25:37 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

You can get a basic pre-hung entry door for $100. *What is
it going to cost to construct a door?

A good bit less than $100, the way I (mistakenly) conceptualized it.

As for
hassle, it's far simpler to put in a pre-hung door than it is
to build your own door. * Much harder to screw up too.
That's why pros do it that way.

As for aggravation, *wait until you've spent hours
building the door, many more hours of aggravation
because it won't fit, close, etc in the frame from the
previously sagging door, etc....

Try this: the garage was built in 1955. There is no
frame around this door, just double 2x4's. Shoddy
construction, I suppose, but that's how they
sometimes did it back then.

I had hoped for a simple fix. Doesn't now look that
way.

* P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

"There is no frame around this door..."

First, let's make sure we are using the correct terminology. It's call
a "jamb", not a "frame".

30" is a standard door width and a prehung 30" door should fit in your
rough opening since it fit a 32" door without a jamb. The jamb will be
about 1 1/2" wide total, so you"ll have room for shims to square it
all up. Yes, you will lose 2" of opening and only you can tell us if
that will be an issue.

One issue might be the height. Since you have no jamb, it's hard for
us to say whether an 80" pre-hung door with threshold and jamb will
fit. You may need to get a shorter door or one without a threshold or
adjust the header.

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 13:06:50 -0500, dpb wrote:


On 7/11/2012 12:11 PM, Puddin' Man wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:27:11 -0500, wrote:

On 7/11/2012 6:58 AM, Puddin' Man wrote:
...

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

That's hard to conceive there's nowhere in any place of any size at all
that doesn't have a "veritable plethora" of salvage building
materials...where are you located?

St. Louis, MO. They've all got "something": nothing fit all
that well.

Perhat Lumber
314.481.9302
6023 S. Broadway, St. Louis, MO 63111
accepts and sell architectural salvage, used lumber, used doors,
used brick, asphalt kettles, and various building materials

Surprised I couldn't find much else online...there's _got_ to be
somewhere w/ a whole pile of used doors to go through...

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
...


...
Perhat Lumber
314.481.9302
6023 S. Broadway, St. Louis, MO 63111
accepts and sell architectural salvage, used lumber, used doors,
used brick, asphalt kettles, and various building materials

I called. Evidently it's just a yard full of junk. I asked if
they *might* have an ext. door 1.25" in thickness. Poor gal
had noooooooo idea.

Surprised I couldn't find much else online...there's _got_ to be
somewhere w/ a whole pile of used doors to go through...

Habitat Restore. I've already done a walk-thru, but their stuff
is so disorganized I wouldn't be surprised if I walked right
by one. Will likely go back. Without AC it's brutal in there.

Can't spin a set of these except in large table-mounted router,
unfortunately, sorry...but, you're perfect excuse to upgrade!

Ah, lemme see ... whasis? $400 for the bits, $500 for a router
rig (but I'd need to stop and build the table?)?? :-)

I'm still of the mind to suggest keep looking for more recycle places or
just keep checking the stock at places you've tried or just bite the
bullet and rebuild the one you have.

Maybe if it drags into Sept. and I'm not in a strait-jacket.

I really think you'll find it less daunting in practice than the
trepidation before beginning. And, just think, once you've started then
you _have_ to finish!

Yes, yes, I've been in -that- situation ...

HD has got a Jeld-wen steel-skin 32 x 79 x 1.75" for $96. It's close, but
it'd be a headache.

Thanks,
P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

Puddin' Man wrote:
Many Thanks. I'll study on this for a bit.

P

If you can use a thicker door, I would. The one above will be 1.25
(if the ply is exact or if you have adjusted rail/stile thickness to
compensate) but there isn't very much wood for hinge screws. You
can get more wood by using thicker rails/stiles and thinner
ply...HD/Lowes carry "door skins" that are 1/8". That is plenty
thick enough as the only thing the ply is actually doing is holding
the frame together and square. With either 1/8 or 1/4 ply you will
wind up with a light weight door that is strong.

You can also get more wood for the screws by making the door undersize
length and width and gluing/screwing on wood strips over the frame AND ply.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

Puddin' Man wrote:

Also note as somebody else has the caveats about material--plain-sawn
construction tubaX material isn't going to be very stable in all
likelihood.

And I'm sorta taking that to heart. :-(

Naturally, I wouldn't worry about it. The last door I built as i described
was to enclose the water heater - not to worry, there are vents in the
door - in our laundry. This is in Florida and the laundry is the hottest
and most humid place in the house. Built it maybe 10 years ago, still flat
as a pancake.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

hr(bob) wrote:

If the door opens inward, the extra thickness doesn't matter. If it
opens outward, the you need a thinner door. I would personally start
with a piece of 3/4 inch plywood the door size, and then add trim to
make up the edges to whatever thickness you want/need.

Good luck in having that plywood stay flat. Or even START flat.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Jul 11, 3:39*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jul 11, 3:22*pm, Puddin' Man wrote:





On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:25:37 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

You can get a basic pre-hung entry door for $100. *What is
it going to cost to construct a door?

A good bit less than $100, the way I (mistakenly) conceptualized it.

As for
hassle, it's far simpler to put in a pre-hung door than it is
to build your own door. * Much harder to screw up too.
That's why pros do it that way.

As for aggravation, *wait until you've spent hours
building the door, many more hours of aggravation
because it won't fit, close, etc in the frame from the
previously sagging door, etc....

Try this: the garage was built in 1955. There is no
frame around this door, just double 2x4's. Shoddy
construction, I suppose, but that's how they
sometimes did it back then.

I had hoped for a simple fix. Doesn't now look that
way.

* P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

"There is no frame around this door..."

First, let's make sure we are using the correct terminology. It's call
a "jamb", not a "frame".

Agree. Normally you'd have framing consisting of 2x4's and then
a door jamb. But it sounds like he has no jamb? Which is weird
because then without a jamb on the sides you would have
exposed not only the 2 x 4's, but also the edge of the sheathing
on the outside, so how is that sealed against the rain? And on
the inside, where the 2 x4 ends, you'd be seeing the edge of
the drywall or whatever the interior material is. In other words,
you'd see what you usually see when you take off the jamb.
Can he tell us that is what he has?



30" is a standard door width and a prehung 30" door should fit in your
rough opening since it fit a 32" door without a jamb. The jamb will be
about 1 1/2" wide total, so you"ll have room for shims to square it
all up. Yes, you will lose 2" of opening and only you can tell us if
that will be an issue.

Agree. If I understand what he's saying, he has a 2x4 door frame
that is 32" wide. A 30" door should then fit between the existing
framing.




One issue might be the height. Since you have no jamb, it's hard for
us to say whether an 80" pre-hung door with threshold and jamb will
fit. You may need to get a shorter door or one without a threshold or
adjust the header.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's a good point. The height could be an issue. But it looks like
HD has one that is a 30X78:

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/doors-w...or-166458.html

If we had more info I think we might find a solution that's
a lot easier than building a new door.

On 7/11/2012 4:32 PM, Puddin' Man wrote:
....

HD has got a Jeld-wen steel-skin 32 x 79 x 1.75" for $96. It's close, but
it'd be a headache.
....

I found several six-panel wood or fiberglass at various Menard's over
the country from $25 to $75 from their returned/never picked/etc.

That kind of place is another possibility for cheap if that's the
ultimate goal...

--

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:43:50 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jul 11, 3:39*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jul 11, 3:22*pm, Puddin' Man wrote:



On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:25:37 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

You can get a basic pre-hung entry door for $100. *What is
it going to cost to construct a door?

A good bit less than $100, the way I (mistakenly) conceptualized it.

As for
hassle, it's far simpler to put in a pre-hung door than it is
to build your own door. * Much harder to screw up too.
That's why pros do it that way.

As for aggravation, *wait until you've spent hours
building the door, many more hours of aggravation
because it won't fit, close, etc in the frame from the
previously sagging door, etc....

Try this: the garage was built in 1955. There is no
frame around this door, just double 2x4's. Shoddy
construction, I suppose, but that's how they
sometimes did it back then.

I had hoped for a simple fix. Doesn't now look that
way.

* P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

"There is no frame around this door..."

First, let's make sure we are using the correct terminology. It's call
a "jamb", not a "frame".

Agree. Normally you'd have framing consisting of 2x4's and then
a door jamb. But it sounds like he has no jamb? Which is weird
because then without a jamb on the sides you would have
exposed not only the 2 x 4's, but also the edge of the sheathing
on the outside, so how is that sealed against the rain? And on
the inside, where the 2 x4 ends, you'd be seeing the edge of
the drywall or whatever the interior material is. In other words,
you'd see what you usually see when you take off the jamb.
Can he tell us that is what he has?

That is essentially what I have. There are some 1 x 2 strips nailed
to the 2x4 frames -outside-, against which the door closes. Otherwise
it's all 2x4's.

30" is a standard door width and a prehung 30" door should fit in your
rough opening since it fit a 32" door without a jamb. The jamb will be
about 1 1/2" wide total, so you"ll have room for shims to square it
all up. Yes, you will lose 2" of opening and only you can tell us if
that will be an issue.

It's undesirable. Best to restore what they did back in '55.

Agree. If I understand what he's saying, he has a 2x4 door frame
that is 32" wide. A 30" door should then fit between the existing
framing.

No!

One issue might be the height. Since you have no jamb, it's hard for
us to say whether an 80" pre-hung door with threshold and jamb will
fit. You may need to get a shorter door or one without a threshold or
adjust the header.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's a good point. The height could be an issue. But it looks like
HD has one that is a 30X78:

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/doors-w...or-166458.html

I just took measurements against one of these at the local HD this afternoon.
It's close but no cigar. And it's steel-skin.

If we had more info I think we might find a solution that's
a lot easier than building a new door.

I've just about given up on "build new". Was just an idea.

Thanks,
P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

On Jul 11, 8:13*pm, Puddin' Man wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:43:50 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


On Jul 11, 3:39*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jul 11, 3:22*pm, Puddin' Man wrote:



"There is no frame around this door..."

First, let's make sure we are using the correct terminology. It's call
a "jamb", not a "frame".

Agree. *Normally you'd have framing consisting of 2x4's and then
a door jamb. *But it sounds like he has no jamb? *Which is weird
because then without a jamb on the sides you would have
exposed not only the 2 x 4's, but also the edge of the sheathing
on the outside, so how is that sealed against the rain? * And on
the inside, where the 2 x4 ends, you'd be seeing the edge of
the drywall or whatever the interior material is. *In other words,
you'd see what you usually see when you take off the jamb.
Can he tell us that is what he has?

That is essentially what I have. There are some 1 x 2 strips nailed
to the 2x4 frames -outside-, against which the door closes. Otherwise
it's all 2x4's.

30" is a standard door width and a prehung 30" door should fit in your
rough opening since it fit a 32" door without a jamb. The jamb will be
about 1 1/2" wide total, so you"ll have room for shims to square it
all up. Yes, you will lose 2" of opening and only you can tell us if
that will be an issue.

It's undesirable. Best to restore what they did back in '55.


What they did back in '55 was wrong. They hung a door slab in a RO
with no jamb. Why would it be best to restore what they did in '55? Is
Better Homes and Gardens coming to put your house on some historic
homes list? Oh wait...1955? I don't think so.

So if you want to restore it back to what they did in '55, why can't
you just buy a 32" door and hang it the same way they did? This thread
has gotten so long that I don't recall if you ever told us why a 32" x
80" slab won't just fit into the opening. As far as I can tell, the
extra thickness of doors today should not be an issue since the door
opens in.

......
Agree. *If I understand what he's saying, he has a 2x4 door frame
that is 32" wide. *A 30" door should then fit between the existing
framing.

No!

"No" to what?

You said you have a 32" door. You said you have no jamb.

Therefore the width of your opening must be just a bit wider than 32"

A prehung 30" door requires a 32" rough opening to allow for the jamb
and some shims.

I ask again "No" to what?


One issue might be the height. Since you have no jamb, it's hard for
us to say whether an 80" pre-hung door with threshold and jamb will
fit. You may need to get a shorter door or one without a threshold or
adjust the header.

That's a good point. *The height could be an issue. *But it looks like
HD has one that is a 30X78:

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/doors-w...doors-front-do...

I just took measurements against one of these at the local HD this afternoon.
It's close but no cigar. And it's steel-skin.

How about telling us what "close but no cigar" means. Too big? Too
small? Too wide? To short? What exactly is the problem with a 30 x 78
prehung door.

BTW...they make 30 x 78 wooden doors too. And guess what? Wooden doors
can be trimmed down if they are too big. BTDT.

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 16:32:45 -0500, Puddin' Man
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 13:06:50 -0500, dpb wrote:


On 7/11/2012 12:11 PM, Puddin' Man wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:27:11 -0500, wrote:

On 7/11/2012 6:58 AM, Puddin' Man wrote:
...

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

That's hard to conceive there's nowhere in any place of any size at all
that doesn't have a "veritable plethora" of salvage building
materials...where are you located?

St. Louis, MO. They've all got "something": nothing fit all
that well.

Perhat Lumber
314.481.9302
6023 S. Broadway, St. Louis, MO 63111
accepts and sell architectural salvage, used lumber, used doors,
used brick, asphalt kettles, and various building materials

Surprised I couldn't find much else online...there's _got_ to be
somewhere w/ a whole pile of used doors to go through...

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?
...


...
Perhat Lumber
314.481.9302
6023 S. Broadway, St. Louis, MO 63111
accepts and sell architectural salvage, used lumber, used doors,
used brick, asphalt kettles, and various building materials

I called. Evidently it's just a yard full of junk. I asked if
they *might* have an ext. door 1.25" in thickness. Poor gal
had noooooooo idea.

Surprised I couldn't find much else online...there's _got_ to be
somewhere w/ a whole pile of used doors to go through...

Habitat Restore. I've already done a walk-thru, but their stuff
is so disorganized I wouldn't be surprised if I walked right
by one. Will likely go back. Without AC it's brutal in there.

Can't spin a set of these except in large table-mounted router,
unfortunately, sorry...but, you're perfect excuse to upgrade!

Ah, lemme see ... whasis? $400 for the bits, $500 for a router
rig (but I'd need to stop and build the table?)?? :-)

I'm still of the mind to suggest keep looking for more recycle places or
just keep checking the stock at places you've tried or just bite the
bullet and rebuild the one you have.

Maybe if it drags into Sept. and I'm not in a strait-jacket.

I really think you'll find it less daunting in practice than the
trepidation before beginning. And, just think, once you've started then
you _have_ to finish!

Yes, yes, I've been in -that- situation ...

HD has got a Jeld-wen steel-skin 32 x 79 x 1.75" for $96. It's close, but
it'd be a headache.

Only if you are over 79 inches tall or have a real spring in your step
- - - - -.

Thanks,
P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 18:51:20 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 7/11/2012 4:32 PM, Puddin' Man wrote:
...

HD has got a Jeld-wen steel-skin 32 x 79 x 1.75" for $96. It's close, but
it'd be a headache.
...

I found several six-panel wood or fiberglass at various Menard's over
the country from $25 to $75 from their returned/never picked/etc.

That kind of place is another possibility for cheap if that's the
ultimate goal...

It's part of it.

No Menards within 100+ mi.

P

"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."

On 7/11/2012 10:35 PM, Puddin' Man wrote:
....


No Menards within 100+ mi.
....

Didn't say it _had_ to be Menards...others must deal w/ same things...

--

On Jul 11, 8:50*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jul 11, 8:13*pm, Puddin' Man wrote:





On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:43:50 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jul 11, 3:39*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jul 11, 3:22*pm, Puddin' Man wrote:

"There is no frame around this door..."

First, let's make sure we are using the correct terminology. It's call
a "jamb", not a "frame".

Agree. *Normally you'd have framing consisting of 2x4's and then
a door jamb. *But it sounds like he has no jamb? *Which is weird
because then without a jamb on the sides you would have
exposed not only the 2 x 4's, but also the edge of the sheathing
on the outside, so how is that sealed against the rain? * And on
the inside, where the 2 x4 ends, you'd be seeing the edge of
the drywall or whatever the interior material is. *In other words,
you'd see what you usually see when you take off the jamb.
Can he tell us that is what he has?

That is essentially what I have. There are some 1 x 2 strips nailed
to the 2x4 frames -outside-, against which the door closes. Otherwise
it's all 2x4's.

Then what happens when those 2x4's meet the sheathing, siding, etc?
Same thing inside the garage? Normally those areas would be covered,
sealed against the weather by the door jamb and casement molding.
A couple of pics of this would be a great help in making suggestions.





30" is a standard door width and a prehung 30" door should fit in your
rough opening since it fit a 32" door without a jamb. The jamb will be
about 1 1/2" wide total, so you"ll have room for shims to square it
all up. Yes, you will lose 2" of opening and only you can tell us if
that will be an issue.

It's undesirable. Best to restore what they did back in '55.

What they did back in '55 was wrong. They hung a door slab in a RO
with no jamb. Why would it be best to restore what they did in '55? Is
Better Homes and Gardens coming to put your house on some historic
homes list? Oh wait...1955? I don't think so.

Agree. That door was installed incorrectly according
to not only the practices of 1955, but probably 100+
years before that. Sure, if it's something vintage that's
consistent with that period, then it's worth preserving,
but I'm not getting that here.

When I do repairs, if what was done before was
wrong, then if I have an opportunity to do it right, I will.
And in this case, from what I've heard so far, doing it
right not only sounds possible, but I suspect it's less
work than building a new door from scratch and will
produce a much better finished product.



So if you want to restore it back to what they did in '55, why can't
you just buy a 32" door and hang it the same way they did? This thread
has gotten so long that I don't recall if you ever told us why a 32" x
80" slab won't just fit into the opening. As far as I can tell, the
extra thickness of doors today should not be an issue since the door
opens in.

.....

I asked a few posts ago what the fitment issue was.
AFAIK, all we have to go on is this:

"What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.
Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.
How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

I didn't pay much attention to the first part. But re-reading
it, if climate is the big concern, why not just wait
until Sept and repair the existing door?
Or, alternatively, take off the door, fix it in the cool
basement where he's proposing to build a door, and
put up a sheet of plywood temporarily to secure the
opening. It's just a garage entry door, so securing it
in that fashion should be easy.




Agree. *If I understand what he's saying, he has a 2x4 door frame
that is 32" wide. *A 30" door should then fit between the existing
framing.

No!

"No" to what?

I think we have a failure to communicate here.....



You said you have a 32" door. You said you have no jamb.

Therefore the width of your opening must be just a bit wider than 32"

A prehung 30" door requires a 32" rough opening to allow for the jamb
and some shims.

I ask again "No" to what?



One issue might be the height. Since you have no jamb, it's hard for
us to say whether an 80" pre-hung door with threshold and jamb will
fit. You may need to get a shorter door or one without a threshold or
adjust the header.

That's a good point. *The height could be an issue. *But it looks like
HD has one that is a 30X78:

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/doors-w...doors-front-do....

I just took measurements against one of these at the local HD this afternoon.
It's close but no cigar. And it's steel-skin.

How about telling us what "close but no cigar" means. Too big? Too
small? Too wide? To short? What exactly is the problem with a 30 x 78
prehung door.

If I had to guess, it's because his existing door has no
door jamb, no TRIM MOLDING and he's unfamiliar with
how a door is normally installed. So, he's looking for
something that has to fit EXACTLY to what's there,
instead of fitting in loosely in a rough opeing, then being
SHIMMED, which is what you do with a pre-hung.

I'd suggest he find some videos of how doors are
supposed to be installed online. Putting in a new
pre-hung and cutting some moldings sounds a lot
easier and more within the skill grade of a typical home
project than building a door. And in this case, it would
make what is apparently an oddball, half-assed door
into a normal one.

Puddin' Man wrote:
This is a continuation of the "Sagging Garage Door" saga from
06-17-12.

What with the Big Heat, etc, it's not practical to repair the door.

Have been to Lowes, Restore, etc. Can't find suitable replacement.

How difficult is it to "build" a door? 32 x 80 x 1.25"?

I am surprised that you are having a problem finding a replacement door that
is that size. 32 x 80 is a standard size. I don't remember the standard
thickness, so I don't know if they are 1.25 inches thick. But a door that
is not exactly the same thickness can still be installed by either adjusting
the trim or having Building a new one seems like it would be a real project
and a pain to have to do.

For those who didn't see the original "Sagging Garage Door" post (I had to
look it up), here it is:

---------------
I have a detached garage (built in 1955) door made of wood segments joined
by
woodwork that looks something like tongue-in-groove flooring. Replacing the
door is probably impractical.

On the garage door, some of the grooves are working loose making one end
of the door sag. I had to plane the knob end of the door to keep it from
scraping the floor. Worked for a while, now it scrapes again.

You can see what is going on if you view the following Photobucket pix
1-at-a-time:

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/...06-2012002.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/...06-2012001.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/...06-2012002.jpg

In the last pic, the lower segment of the door is pulling away at top-of-
segment. If the joints are loose enough to allow the observed sagging, it
seems like it should be possible to reverse the sagging (i.e. by storing
the door upside down or somesuch) and then reinforce it to hold true. But I
havent figgered out how.

Does anybody know of any tricks/techniques for reinforcing/repairing such
wood doors?
-------------