[HeyBub[_3_]]

"With a single punch, Trayvon Martin [the deceased] decked the Neighborhood
Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then
Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman [the non-deceased] and slammed
his head into the sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law enforcement
authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

"That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been
corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been no reports that
a witness saw that initial punch Zimmerman told police about. "

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...l-rights-punch

Now contrast the story from the Orlando Sentinel (above) with one from the
Chicago Tribune (below). The latter seems more interested in the protests
over the shooting.

"Martin was killed one month ago today. That's one month of justice denied,
according to protesters who are expected to amass throughout the day to
continue their demand for Zimmerman's arrest in the Sanford, Fla. case."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,3121664.story

Once again, our president seems to have spoken before all the facts are in.

Maybe a beer summit can sort it all out.

[HeyBub[_3_]]

HeyBub wrote:

The little snowflake, Trayvon Martin, has some skeletons:

* He was on suspension from school for graffiti, after being found with a
bag of woman's jewelry and burglar tools
* Another suspension for possession of Marijuana
* Another suspension for tardiness and truancy

All of this is, of course, irrelevant to his fatal altercation in a
burglary-ridden sub-division.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...t-trayvon.html

[Stormin Mormon[_7_]]

Not relevant. According to the black race baiters, he was lilly white,
uptight, and outa sight.
(Sounds like a line from a joke?)

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
HeyBub wrote:

The little snowflake, Trayvon Martin, has some skeletons:

* He was on suspension from school for graffiti, after being found with a
bag of woman's jewelry and burglar tools
* Another suspension for possession of Marijuana
* Another suspension for tardiness and truancy

All of this is, of course, irrelevant to his fatal altercation in a
burglary-ridden sub-division.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...t-trayvon.html

[Doug[_14_]]

On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 16:36:27 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"With a single punch, Trayvon Martin [the deceased] decked the Neighborhood
Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then
Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman [the non-deceased] and slammed
his head into the sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law enforcement
authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

"That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been
corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been no reports that
a witness saw that initial punch Zimmerman told police about. "

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...l-rights-punch

Now contrast the story from the Orlando Sentinel (above) with one from the
Chicago Tribune (below). The latter seems more interested in the protests
over the shooting.

"Martin was killed one month ago today. That's one month of justice denied,
according to protesters who are expected to amass throughout the day to
continue their demand for Zimmerman's arrest in the Sanford, Fla. case."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,3121664.story

Once again, our president seems to have spoken before all the facts are in.

Maybe a beer summit can sort it all out.



Aside from all of this, I am surprised our president who is an
attorney from a top notch law school, speaks before knowing all the
facts. As you point out, this is not the first time he's done this.
I'm not much of a beer drinker but I'll be glad to buy if he invites
me to the next beer summit.

[Stormin Mormon[_7_]]

Myself, and at least a few others totally agree with you.

I have no doubt, there continues to be racial tension, and some hatred.
Along with a lot of hatred of the rich "who didn't pay their fair share".
Such hatred being promoted by the first post racial president.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Doug" wrote in message
...

I won't get into who's right or wrong but I will say I'm getting a bit
tired as I get older to hear that every time a black person is killed
or fired, it's a race issue. Everytime???? Really????
I won't deny they do face discrimination today but I do not believe
everytime things don't go their way, it's a race issue. When things
go right, I don't hear them bring up the race card then grin. I
just wish we could all get along but I guess that's not going to
happen in my life time .

[HeyBub[_3_]]

Molly Brown wrote:
On Mar 26, 2:36 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
"With a single punch, Trayvon Martin [the deceased] decked the
Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the
unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman
[the non-deceased] and slammed his head into the sidewalk, leaving
him bloody and battered, law enforcement authorities have revealed
to the Orlando Sentinel.

"That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been
corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been no
reports that a witness saw that initial punch Zimmerman told police
about. "

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...trayvon-martin...

Now contrast the story from the Orlando Sentinel (above) with one
from the Chicago Tribune (below). The latter seems more interested
in the protests over the shooting.

"Martin was killed one month ago today. That's one month of justice
denied, according to protesters who are expected to amass throughout
the day to continue their demand for Zimmerman's arrest in the
Sanford, Fla. case."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...tin-case-20120...

Once again, our president seems to have spoken before all the facts
are in.

Maybe a beer summit can sort it all out.

1. To defend yourself means when you’re not moving or going anywhere
and someone is coming after you, your loved one or your property.
2. Unless you’re a member of SWAT and on duty, a gun can only be used
as a defense.
3. When you go AFTER someone ( read # 1 above) then you are no longer
considered to be defending yourself.
Florida has a marvelous law of “stand your ground” that is extremely
useful. If people like you don’t stop trying to subvert it, we’re all
going to lose.

Like me?

In what way, large or small, did you perceive I'm trying to subvert the
"Stand Your Ground" law? I think you've confused me with Idi Amin or some
other miscreant.

Further, you are completely wrong in your #3 above. The SYG law specifically
permits lethal force to defend yourself, irrespective of where you are
located or your (lawful) reason for being there. Presuming you have a right
to walk down the sidewalk, without regard for your motive in so doing, you
are covered. Specifically, if I follow you, and you don't like it, you own
the problem, not me*.

In the case I just outlined, while my following you may rile your anger,
provocation is not an excuse for you to attack me. And if you DO attack me,
I will blow your ass away.

--------
* Of course there are always exceptions. One that comes to mind is
"stalking," but unwanted and obsessive attention, to be illegal, must occur
over a period of time.

[Oren[_2_]]

On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:25:33 -0500, "Doug"
wrote:


I won't get into who's right or wrong but I will say I'm getting a bit
tired as I get older to hear that every time a black person is killed
or fired, it's a race issue. Everytime???? Really????
I won't deny they do face discrimination today but I do not believe
everytime things don't go their way, it's a race issue. When things
go right, I don't hear them bring up the race card then grin. I
just wish we could all get along but I guess that's not going to
happen in my life time .

Welcome to reality :-|

I was young and impressionable once. Actually considered offender
rehabilitation to be possible. You can't rehabilitate a person that
has never been habilitated.

Then I learned some are not capable of walking amongst decent
civilized people. I know of one human that has no human contact for
most of his time, there are exceptions when under a ten-man escort
(legal / medical).

There are predators and monsters walking about... keep an eye open!

[Ron]

On Mar 26, 5:47*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

The little snowflake, Trayvon Martin, has some skeletons:

* He was on suspension from school for graffiti, after being found with a
bag of woman's jewelry and burglar tools
* Another suspension for possession of Marijuana
* Another suspension for tardiness and truancy

All of this is, of course, irrelevant to his fatal altercation in a
burglary-ridden sub-division.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...-expected-at-t...

So does Zimmerman.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/bq4c8qj

[Stormin Mormon[_7_]]

They tend to come out from under the wood work in case of power cuts,
hurricanes, TEOTWAWKI, or Jesse Jackson speeches. Same for Al Not So Sharp
ton.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Oren" wrote in message
...

Then I learned some are not capable of walking amongst decent
civilized people. I know of one human that has no human contact for
most of his time, there are exceptions when under a ten-man escort
(legal / medical).

There are predators and monsters walking about... keep an eye open!

[Attila.Iskander]

"Molly Brown" wrote in message
...
On Mar 26, 2:36 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
"With a single punch, Trayvon Martin [the deceased] decked the
Neighborhood
Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old,
then
Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman [the non-deceased] and slammed
his head into the sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law
enforcement
authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

"That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been
corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been no reports
that
a witness saw that initial punch Zimmerman told police about. "

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...trayvon-martin...

Now contrast the story from the Orlando Sentinel (above) with one from
the
Chicago Tribune (below). The latter seems more interested in the protests
over the shooting.

"Martin was killed one month ago today. That's one month of justice
denied,
according to protesters who are expected to amass throughout the day to
continue their demand for Zimmerman's arrest in the Sanford, Fla. case."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...tin-case-20120...

Once again, our president seems to have spoken before all the facts are
in.

Maybe a beer summit can sort it all out.

1. To defend yourself means when you’re not moving or going anywhere
and someone is coming after you, your loved one or your property.

WRONG !
To defend yourself means to defend yourself INDEPENDENT of your "motion" or
"location

2. Unless you’re a member of SWAT and on duty, a gun can only be used
as a defense.

WRONG AGAIN
But I'm not even going to bother addressing the many ways this one is wrong


3. When you go AFTER someone ( read # 1 above) then you are no longer
considered to be defending yourself.

WRONG AGAIN !
1) If you "go after someone", is ONLY an issue if you CONTINUED the
process unchanged
2) If you "go after someone" the stop and attempt to leave, condition 1)
is annulled and if attacked self-defense DOES apply to you
3) If 2) then if the other comes after you, condition 1) applies to the
other, and self-defense applies to you and NOT the other.


Florida has a marvelous law of “stand your ground” that is extremely
useful. If people like you don’t stop trying to subvert it, we’re all
going to lose.

Nobody has tried to subvert it.
You seem to have an incomplete understanding of the basic principles
that apply to self-defense INDEPENDENT of SYG.

[Attila.Iskander]

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Molly Brown wrote:
On Mar 26, 2:36 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
"With a single punch, Trayvon Martin [the deceased] decked the
Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the
unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman
[the non-deceased] and slammed his head into the sidewalk, leaving
him bloody and battered, law enforcement authorities have revealed
to the Orlando Sentinel.

"That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been
corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been no
reports that a witness saw that initial punch Zimmerman told police
about. "

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...trayvon-martin...

Now contrast the story from the Orlando Sentinel (above) with one
from the Chicago Tribune (below). The latter seems more interested
in the protests over the shooting.

"Martin was killed one month ago today. That's one month of justice
denied, according to protesters who are expected to amass throughout
the day to continue their demand for Zimmerman's arrest in the
Sanford, Fla. case."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...tin-case-20120...

Once again, our president seems to have spoken before all the facts
are in.

Maybe a beer summit can sort it all out.

1. To defend yourself means when you're not moving or going anywhere
and someone is coming after you, your loved one or your property.
2. Unless you're a member of SWAT and on duty, a gun can only be used
as a defense.
3. When you go AFTER someone ( read # 1 above) then you are no longer
considered to be defending yourself.
Florida has a marvelous law of "stand your ground" that is extremely
useful. If people like you don't stop trying to subvert it, we're all
going to lose.

Like me?

In what way, large or small, did you perceive I'm trying to subvert the
"Stand Your Ground" law? I think you've confused me with Idi Amin or some
other miscreant.

Further, you are completely wrong in your #3 above. The SYG law
specifically permits lethal force to defend yourself, irrespective of
where you are located or your (lawful) reason for being there. Presuming
you have a right to walk down the sidewalk, without regard for your motive
in so doing, you are covered. Specifically, if I follow you, and you don't
like it, you own the problem, not me*.

In the case I just outlined, while my following you may rile your anger,
provocation is not an excuse for you to attack me. And if you DO attack
me, I will blow your ass away.


There are 2 issues here
1) the rules that apply directly to self-defense
2) the rules that apply to SYG (Stand Your Ground)
Because they can overlap, people are confounding the 2..

[John Carter]

"HeyBub" wrote in
:

"With a single punch, Trayvon Martin [the deceased] decked the
Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the
unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George
Zimmerman [the non-deceased] and slammed his head into the
sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law enforcement
authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

"That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has
been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been
no reports that a witness saw that initial punch Zimmerman told
police about. "

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...s-trayvon-mart
in-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-civil-rights-punch

Now contrast the story from the Orlando Sentinel (above) with one
from the Chicago Tribune (below). The latter seems more interested
in the protests over the shooting.

"Martin was killed one month ago today. That's one month of
justice denied, according to protesters who are expected to amass
throughout the day to continue their demand for Zimmerman's arrest
in the Sanford, Fla. case."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...artin-case-201
20326,0,3121664.story

Once again, our president seems to have spoken before all the
facts are in.

Maybe a beer summit can sort it all out.


Don;t know who is telling the truth, but one thing
I know for sure - either Zimmerman wasn't properly
trained in the neighborhood waych program, or he was
ignoring what he waas told. I am a member of our
city neighborhood watch program, and I know for sure that
NO guns permitted. It's the neighborhood WAYCH proram, not
the neighborhood LAW ENFORCENENT program. The police want eyes
and ears out there, not an untrained civilian with sidearms
going after a suspicious character. We operate in pairs and
without weapons. We did disnss a member for bringing a gun to
a watch. Our watch program is now inits seventh year, and during
that time, we have been responsible for many leads leading to arrets.
Our local police department loves the work we do to help them.

[Bill Kniess]

Molly Brown wrote in
news:d1ea6d55-1e69-4c7a-a7a3-1355067c4427
@er9g2000vbb.googlegroups.co
m:

snip

1. To defend yourself means when you’re not moving or
going
anywhere and someone is coming after you, your loved one
or your
property. 2. Unless you’re a member of SWAT and on duty,
a gun can
only be used as a defense.
3. When you go AFTER someone ( read # 1 above) then you
are no
longer considered to be defending yourself.
Florida has a marvelous law of “stand your ground” that
is
extremely useful. If people like you don’t stop trying
to subvert
it, we’re all going to lose.


Who are you saying here is the defender?

Subverting ? Are you saying we were a lost bunch from the
beginning of the country up to the time this law was
passed?

Marvelous law ? I'm an NRA member, but I have to say that
there was
NO reason to have a law like this enacted. (It was
bankrolled by my
NRA, and for the life of me, cannot find out for what
purpose they
push such legislation). It is plain and simple nuts. Just
about as
bad as Ohio's law permitting concealed carry in bars.
What? Don't the lawmakers know how easy a fight breaks
out in a bar and someone
gets hit with a pool queue stick ora bottle? What's going
to happen
now with concealed guns? People will be carted out in body
bags rather than on ambulance gurneys.

If someone was packing, out and about the
town runing erands and whatnot, and someone
looks at them funny, and they think they are
threatened, they have the right under this law
to defend themselves from this looker, even to
the death. Now you think this is a stretch, but
this is real life and anything can and does happen.

Bill Kniess
US Army
NRA

[Moe Gasser]

On 3/29/2012 3:12 AM, Bill Kniess wrote:

bad as Ohio's law permitting concealed carry in bars.
What? Don't the lawmakers know how easy a fight breaks
out in a bar and someone
gets hit with a pool queue stick ora bottle? What's going
to happen
now with concealed guns? People will be carted out in body
bags rather than on ambulance gurneys.


Sounds like a bunch of Darwin Award winners to me.

[HeyBub[_3_]]

Bill Kniess wrote:

Who are you saying here is the defender?

Subverting ? Are you saying we were a lost bunch from the
beginning of the country up to the time this law was
passed?

Marvelous law ? I'm an NRA member, but I have to say that
there was
NO reason to have a law like this enacted. (It was
bankrolled by my
NRA, and for the life of me, cannot find out for what
purpose they
push such legislation).

Hmm. Thirty-one states have some form of Stand Your Ground (SYG) laws. Are
you saying that over 60% of the population passed a law with no reason
behind it? Or is it possible you simply do not understand what three out of
five do?

It is plain and simple nuts. Just
about as
bad as Ohio's law permitting concealed carry in bars.
What? Don't the lawmakers know how easy a fight breaks
out in a bar and someone
gets hit with a pool queue stick ora bottle? What's going
to happen
now with concealed guns? People will be carted out in body
bags rather than on ambulance gurneys.

In my state, we've had the ability to carry concealed where liquor is served
since 1995. There has not been ONE SINGLE case - that I can find - of a CHL
holder shooting another bar patron. You're worried about something that is
so remote as to be absurd. We can also carry concealed in churches,
hospitals, the state capitol, libraries, parks, and the governor's office!
Again, no untoward happenings recorded.

It may be that Texans are more mild-mannered than the folks in your state,
but I suspect the real difference is in your fears versus reality.

Further, if a fight DOES break out, with pool cues and chairs sailing around
like ducks on a bug, I certainly would want to be armed.


If someone was packing, out and about the
town runing erands and whatnot, and someone
looks at them funny, and they think they are
threatened, they have the right under this law
to defend themselves from this looker, even to
the death. Now you think this is a stretch, but
this is real life and anything can and does happen.

There's an old saying: "An armed society frowns on those who look funny."

[Jim Elbrecht]

"HeyBub" wrote:
-snip-

Hmm. Thirty-one states have some form of Stand Your Ground (SYG) laws.

Check your math-- or your source. This map only shows 18.
http://www.adn.com/2012/03/26/239250...spotlight.html

If you've got another map or chart, I'd love to see it.

Are
you saying that over 60% of the population passed a law with no reason
behind it? Or is it possible you simply do not understand what three out of
five do?

And just a WAG, I doubt those states represent 15% of the population.
[and how many of them are, like FL, second guessing themselves this
week]



Jim

[Norminn]

On 3/29/2012 2:37 AM, John Carter wrote:
wrote in
:

"With a single punch, Trayvon Martin [the deceased] decked the
Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the
unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George
Zimmerman [the non-deceased] and slammed his head into the
sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law enforcement
authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

"That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has
been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been
no reports that a witness saw that initial punch Zimmerman told
police about. "

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...s-trayvon-mart
in-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-civil-rights-punch

Now contrast the story from the Orlando Sentinel (above) with one
from the Chicago Tribune (below). The latter seems more interested
in the protests over the shooting.

"Martin was killed one month ago today. That's one month of
justice denied, according to protesters who are expected to amass
throughout the day to continue their demand for Zimmerman's arrest
in the Sanford, Fla. case."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...artin-case-201
20326,0,3121664.story

Once again, our president seems to have spoken before all the
facts are in.

Maybe a beer summit can sort it all out.


Don;t know who is telling the truth, but one thing
I know for sure - either Zimmerman wasn't properly
trained in the neighborhood waych program, or he was
ignoring what he waas told. I am a member of our
city neighborhood watch program, and I know for sure that
NO guns permitted. It's the neighborhood WAYCH proram, not
the neighborhood LAW ENFORCENENT program. The police want eyes
and ears out there, not an untrained civilian with sidearms
going after a suspicious character. We operate in pairs and
without weapons. We did disnss a member for bringing a gun to
a watch. Our watch program is now inits seventh year, and during
that time, we have been responsible for many leads leading to arrets.
Our local police department loves the work we do to help them.

The Orlando paper had a story about the Sanford neighborhood watch/PD
roles. Not only is NW NOT supposed to carry weapons, they are not
supposed to PATROL. There is an entirely separate group, trained by PD
and driving marked vehicles, who are supposed to patrol under their program.

[Oren[_2_]]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:54:30 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

Now, here is a link to police video of Z.
just after the shooting...where is all the blood from the busted nose
and cut on his head?????

He was treated (First Aid) on the scene by paramedics and wounds
cleaned of blood, etc..... That was one report, so it explains the
lack of blood in this video.

[Doug[_14_]]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:53:40 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:54:30 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

Now, here is a link to police video of Z.
just after the shooting...where is all the blood from the busted nose
and cut on his head?????

He was treated (First Aid) on the scene by paramedics and wounds
cleaned of blood, etc..... That was one report, so it explains the
lack of blood in this video.


Did they bring a change of clothes for him too?

[HeyBub[_3_]]

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote:
-snip-

Hmm. Thirty-one states have some form of Stand Your Ground (SYG)
laws.

Check your math-- or your source. This map only shows 18.
http://www.adn.com/2012/03/26/239250...spotlight.html

If you've got another map or chart, I'd love to see it.

I may have misspoked.
"As of 28 May 2010 (2010 -05-28, 31 states had some form of Castle Doctrine
or Stand Your Ground law."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law


Are
you saying that over 60% of the population passed a law with no
reason behind it? Or is it possible you simply do not understand
what three out of five do?

And just a WAG, I doubt those states represent 15% of the population.
[and how many of them are, like FL, second guessing themselves this
week]


The most and third-most populated states (California & New York) do not have
a SYG law. The second and forth and fifth (Texas, Florida, and Pennsylvania)
do. I suspect, without going to the trouble of totaling things up, that the
60% figure is close to correct.

[HeyBub[_3_]]

Doug wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:53:40 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:54:30 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

Now, here is a link to police video of Z.
just after the shooting...where is all the blood from the busted
nose and cut on his head?????

He was treated (First Aid) on the scene by paramedics and wounds
cleaned of blood, etc..... That was one report, so it explains the
lack of blood in this video.


Did they bring a change of clothes for him too?

I'm sure he got one at the cop shop. I doubt they'd send him home nekkid.

[gonjah[_2_]]

On 3/29/2012 11:18 AM, Doug wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:53:40 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:54:30 -0400,
wrote:

Now, here is a link to police video of Z.
just after the shooting...where is all the blood from the busted nose
and cut on his head?????
He was treated (First Aid) on the scene by paramedics and wounds
cleaned of blood, etc..... That was one report, so it explains the
lack of blood in this video.

Did they bring a change of clothes for him too?

The EMT's were first rate considering the guy was beat to within an inch
of his life. Even washed his clothes. Washed his moon walking jacket too.

[Attila.Iskander]

"gonjah" wrote in message
...


The EMT's were first rate considering the guy was beat to within an inch
of his life. Even washed his clothes. Washed his moon walking jacket too.

YAWN
How stupid !

[gonjah[_2_]]

On 3/29/2012 12:08 PM, Attila.Iskander wrote:

"gonjah" wrote in message
...


The EMT's were first rate considering the guy was beat to within an
inch of his life. Even washed his clothes. Washed his moon walking
jacket too.

YAWN
How stupid !

If you believe Geo. Z you're right.

[Kurt Ullman]

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:54:30 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

Now, here is a link to police video of Z.
just after the shooting...where is all the blood from the busted nose
and cut on his head?????

He was treated (First Aid) on the scene by paramedics and wounds
cleaned of blood, etc..... That was one report, so it explains the
lack of blood in this video.

Not on his close, though

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

[Oren[_2_]]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:53:40 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:54:30 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

Now, here is a link to police video of Z.
just after the shooting...where is all the blood from the busted nose
and cut on his head?????

He was treated (First Aid) on the scene by paramedics and wounds
cleaned of blood, etc..... That was one report, so it explains the
lack of blood in this video.

Every picture tells a story, don't it. -- Rod Stewart

Video:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1535007675001/new-questions-over-use-of-photos-in-trayvon-martin-case/?playlist_id=87651

[Attila.Iskander]

"gonjah" wrote in message
net...
On 3/29/2012 12:08 PM, Attila.Iskander wrote:

"gonjah" wrote in message
...


The EMT's were first rate considering the guy was beat to within an inch
of his life. Even washed his clothes. Washed his moon walking jacket
too.

YAWN
How stupid !

If you believe Geo. Z you're right.



I don't need to "believe" anyone.
I try to look at what DATA is available, and how the data fits the various
possible scenarios

1) The video image was Black & White, and of poor quality
NO way to really tell the extent of injuries
2) Contusions and lacerations to the back of the head do NOT always cause
profuse bleeding
3) Ditto for the face.
4) Ditto for the nose
5) It is quite easy to clean up someone who has stopped bleeding.
PARTICULARLY when the bleeding was minimal.

The video is at best non-indicative

But thank your for letting me demonstrate YOUR stupidity.

[gonjah]

On 3/29/2012 12:35 PM, Attila.Iskander wrote:

"gonjah" wrote in message
net...
On 3/29/2012 12:08 PM, Attila.Iskander wrote:

"gonjah" wrote in message
...


The EMT's were first rate considering the guy was beat to within an
inch of his life. Even washed his clothes. Washed his moon walking
jacket too.

YAWN
How stupid !

If you believe Geo. Z you're right.



I don't need to "believe" anyone.
I try to look at what DATA is available, and how the data fits the
various possible scenarios

1) The video image was Black & White, and of poor quality
NO way to really tell the extent of injuries
2) Contusions and lacerations to the back of the head do NOT always
cause profuse bleeding
3) Ditto for the face.
4) Ditto for the nose
5) It is quite easy to clean up someone who has stopped bleeding.
PARTICULARLY when the bleeding was minimal.

The video is at best non-indicative

But thank your for letting me demonstrate YOUR stupidity.



Listen! It's the sound of Attila.Iskander squirming.

[Stormin Mormon[_7_]]

Did they clean on his far?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...

He was treated (First Aid) on the scene by paramedics and wounds
cleaned of blood, etc..... That was one report, so it explains the
lack of blood in this video.

Not on his close, though

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

[Kurt Ullman]

In article ,
Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:54:30 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

Now, here is a link to police video of Z.
just after the shooting...where is all the blood from the busted nose
and cut on his head?????

He was treated (First Aid) on the scene by paramedics and wounds
cleaned of blood, etc..... That was one report, so it explains the
lack of blood in this video.

Not on his close, though

Not on his clothes.. I really shouldn't try to respond while on the
phone. (g)

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

[Doug[_14_]]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:35:01 -0500, "Attila.Iskander"
wrote:


"gonjah" wrote in message
tnet...
On 3/29/2012 12:08 PM, Attila.Iskander wrote:

"gonjah" wrote in message
...


The EMT's were first rate considering the guy was beat to within an inch
of his life. Even washed his clothes. Washed his moon walking jacket
too.

YAWN
How stupid !

If you believe Geo. Z you're right.



I don't need to "believe" anyone.
I try to look at what DATA is available, and how the data fits the various
possible scenarios

1) The video image was Black & White, and of poor quality
NO way to really tell the extent of injuries
2) Contusions and lacerations to the back of the head do NOT always cause
profuse bleeding
3) Ditto for the face.
4) Ditto for the nose
5) It is quite easy to clean up someone who has stopped bleeding.
PARTICULARLY when the bleeding was minimal.

The video is at best non-indicative

But thank your for letting me demonstrate YOUR stupidity.



Break a nose and no blood on the shirt????

[Jim Yanik]

Bill Kniess wrote in
:

Molly Brown wrote in
news:d1ea6d55-1e69-4c7a-a7a3-1355067c4427
@er9g2000vbb.googlegroups.co
m:

snip

1. To defend yourself means when you’re not moving or
going
anywhere and someone is coming after you, your loved one
or your
property. 2. Unless you’re a member of SWAT and on duty,
a gun can
only be used as a defense.
3. When you go AFTER someone ( read # 1 above) then you
are no
longer considered to be defending yourself.

but there's no law against following someone,even while armed.
Nor is it any "provocation".

Florida has a marvelous law of “stand your ground” that
is
extremely useful. If people like you don’t stop trying
to subvert
it, we’re all going to lose.


Who are you saying here is the defender?

Considering Zimmerman was on the ground on his back with Trayvon on top of
him,I'd say he was defending himself,lawfully.
They have a witness for that,and the evidence supports it.


Subverting ? Are you saying we were a lost bunch from the
beginning of the country up to the time this law was
passed?

Marvelous law ?

YES!.
it removes the presumption of guilt from the victim,and makes the police
have reasonable evidence that a crime was committed before arresting or
charging a person who had to defend themselves,and it removed the "duty to
retreat" that protects the ATTACKER and not the victim.
"duty to retreat" actually INCREASES the risk to the victim.

I'm an NRA member, but I have to say that
there was
NO reason to have a law like this enacted. (It was
bankrolled by my
NRA, and for the life of me, cannot find out for what
purpose they
push such legislation).

Try doing some reading. Wiki has a nice page on the Stand Your Ground law.

It is plain and simple nuts. Just
about as
bad as Ohio's law permitting concealed carry in bars.
What? Don't the lawmakers know how easy a fight breaks
out in a bar and someone
gets hit with a pool queue stick ora bottle? What's going
to happen
now with concealed guns? People will be carted out in body
bags rather than on ambulance gurneys.

this sounds like that old "Wild West" nonsense again.
except it never happened. states where concealed carry is allowed in
restaurants that serve alcohol do not have these incidents,nor do they
where carry in bars is permitted.

also,one CAN be attacked when leaving a bar or restaurant.

If someone was packing, out and about the
town runing erands and whatnot, and someone
looks at them funny, and they think they are
threatened, they have the right under this law
to defend themselves from this looker,

Nonsense. the standard is REASONABLE belief of imminent danger to your life
or that you might receive great bodily harm.

for a "NRA member",you sure don't don't know the law,or the issues.
but maybe you're not really a "NRA member".
there's certainly been plants that claim to be such,and were just Brady
Campaign folks. you have all the views of the Brady bunch.

Newsflash;the Second Amendment is NOT about hunting and sporting.

even to
the death. Now you think this is a stretch, but
this is real life and anything can and does happen.

Bill Kniess
US Army
NRA


Generally,the places where concealed carry is allowed in bars it's
predicated on the person NOT consuming any alcohol.
Not so for restaurants that serve alcohol.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

[Jim Yanik]

gonjah wrote in news:lt6dnWfVUoUcD-
tnet:

On 3/29/2012 11:18 AM, Doug wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:53:40 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:54:30 -0400,
wrote:

Now, here is a link to police video of Z.
just after the shooting...where is all the blood from the busted nose
and cut on his head?????
He was treated (First Aid) on the scene by paramedics and wounds
cleaned of blood, etc..... That was one report, so it explains the
lack of blood in this video.

Did they bring a change of clothes for him too?

The EMT's were first rate considering the guy was beat to within an inch
of his life. Even washed his clothes. Washed his moon walking jacket too.


yeah,ALL the police and EMTS all got together and lied on offical
reports...even the black ones. it's all a racist conspiracy...
Sheesh.

Plus,eyes don't blacken until long after the nose is broken,same for
bruising.
I also note that police kept Zimmerman's clothes as evidence.

I suspect the police have enough crime scene photos to prove all
this,except they don't release that stuff to the public until after an
investigation or trial is over.
Don't want to taint a potential jury pool.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

[gonjah]

On 3/29/2012 2:32 PM, Jim Yanik wrote:
wrote in news:lt6dnWfVUoUcD-
tnet:

On 3/29/2012 11:18 AM, Doug wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:53:40 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:54:30 -0400,
wrote:

Now, here is a link to police video of Z.
just after the shooting...where is all the blood from the busted nose
and cut on his head?????
He was treated (First Aid) on the scene by paramedics and wounds
cleaned of blood, etc..... That was one report, so it explains the
lack of blood in this video.
Did they bring a change of clothes for him too?
The EMT's were first rate considering the guy was beat to within an inch
of his life. Even washed his clothes. Washed his moon walking jacket too.

yeah,ALL the police and EMTS all got together and lied on offical
reports...even the black ones. it's all a racist conspiracy...
Sheesh.

Plus,eyes don't blacken until long after the nose is broken,same for
bruising.
I also note that police kept Zimmerman's clothes as evidence.

I suspect the police have enough crime scene photos to prove all
this,except they don't release that stuff to the public until after an
investigation or trial is over.
Don't want to taint a potential jury pool.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc4e-HdlhPY&feature=fvst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc4e-HdlhPY&feature=fvst

[Oren[_2_]]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:38:33 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Doug wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:53:40 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:54:30 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

Now, here is a link to police video of Z.
just after the shooting...where is all the blood from the busted
nose and cut on his head?????

He was treated (First Aid) on the scene by paramedics and wounds
cleaned of blood, etc..... That was one report, so it explains the
lack of blood in this video.


Did they bring a change of clothes for him too?

I'm sure he got one at the cop shop. I doubt they'd send him home nekkid.


Chuckle. A guy bonded out one day. He went home in his pajamas, the
exact clothes he was arrested in (feds).

[Oren[_2_]]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:30:59 -0500, "Doug"
wrote:

Break a nose and no blood on the shirt????

Sure. I've seen it happen. Even some young kid can box his friends in
the driveway.

You can get your nose twisted with a left hook. Watch out for that.

[Jim Elbrecht]

"HeyBub" wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote:
-snip-

Hmm. Thirty-one states have some form of Stand Your Ground (SYG)
laws.

Check your math-- or your source. This map only shows 18.
http://www.adn.com/2012/03/26/239250...spotlight.html

If you've got another map or chart, I'd love to see it.

I may have misspoked.
"As of 28 May 2010 (2010 -05-28, 31 states had some form of Castle Doctrine
or Stand Your Ground law."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

There is a world of difference between SYG & Castle Doctrine. I
don't know why they'd lump them together. Shame on wiki for that
one, even though they explain the difference in the text that nobody
reads.



Are
you saying that over 60% of the population passed a law with no
reason behind it? Or is it possible you simply do not understand
what three out of five do?

And just a WAG, I doubt those states represent 15% of the population.
[and how many of them are, like FL, second guessing themselves this
week]


The most and third-most populated states (California & New York) do not have
a SYG law. The second and forth and fifth (Texas, Florida, and Pennsylvania)
do. I suspect, without going to the trouble of totaling things up, that the
60% figure is close to correct.


*If* you want to lump all of the laws together, I suppose you could be
right. I don't, and stand by my WAG.

Jim

[gonjah]

On 3/29/2012 3:34 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:30:59 -0500,
wrote:

Break a nose and no blood on the shirt????
Sure. I've seen it happen. Even some young kid can box his friends in
the driveway.

You can get your nose twisted with a left hook. Watch out for that.

You guys may want to take a clue from Fox News on this one....

http://thinkprogress.org/media/2012/...cept-fox-news/

....and move on.

[ChairMan[_2_]]

"gonjah" gonjah.net wrote in message
...
On 3/29/2012 3:34 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:30:59 -0500,
wrote:

Break a nose and no blood on the shirt????
Sure. I've seen it happen. Even some young kid can box his friends in
the driveway.

You can get your nose twisted with a left hook. Watch out for that.

You guys may want to take a clue from Fox News on this one....

http://thinkprogress.org/media/2012/...cept-fox-news/

...and move on.


They are lying, I've seen it all over Fox, hell, it's even been covered on
Fox business channel.
You might want to find better sources for your news.

[G. Morgan[_9_]]

Norminn wrote:

Some cops lie...some are racist *******s...

aside

What ****es me off is that cops are allowed to lie and deceive the
suspect during questioning, but if the suspect lies he's guilty of
"obstruction of justice" (even if he had nothing to do with the
crime he's being questioned about).

Don't talk to cops...

Must watch if you have not seen this and live in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
--
I like refried beans. That's why I wanna try fried beans,
because maybe they're just as good and we're just wasting time.
You don't have to fry them again after all. -Mitch Hedberg