In article ,
"S. Barker" wrote:

Hint#4. there enough in alaska to supply the us. NOW if you could get the
twiddly toed pink wearing ****in queer tree huggers off the case, we could
use it.

s

Like I said last week:

According to Environmental Attorney Robert F. Kennedy, Jr, senior
counsel for the National Resources Defense Fund:

* If we raise fuel efficiency standards in American cars by one mile
per gallon, in one year, we would save twice the amount of oil that
could be obtained from the arctic national wildlife refuge.

---------

I suppose if one enjoys hunting, fishing, camping, and generally
enjoying the great outdoors, one is a "queer tree hugger." That should
come as news to all the ignorant gun-loving rednecks who think
environmentalism is gay.

In article ,
Paul M. Eldridge wrote:

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:21:33 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

The price of gas, like all things, is being manipulated by the puppet
masters of the world. According to the Wall Street Journal, if based on
supply and demand, it would be about $1.50. In California there are two
refineries, and they take turns shutting down for one phony reason or
another, to artificially exacerbate the "shortage."

There are only *TWO* oil refineries in California? Then perhaps you
would be so kind as to select which two from the following list:

BP West Coast Products LLC, Carson
Chevron U.S.A. Inc., El Segundo
Chevron U.S.A. Inc., Richmond
Tesoro Refining & Marketing Company, Golden Eagle
Shell Oil Products US, Martinez
ExxonMobil Refining & Supply Company, Torrance
Valero Benicia
ConocoPhillips, Wilmington
Shell Oil Products US, Wilmington
Valero (Ultramar) Wilmington
ConocoPhillips, Rodeo San Francisco
Big West of California LLC, Bakersfield
Paramount Petroleum Corporation, Paramount
ConocoPhillips, Santa Maria
Edgington Oil Company, Long Beach
Kern Oil & Refining Company, Bakersfield
San Joaquin Refining Company Inc., Bakersfield
Greka Energy, Santa Maria
Lunday Thagard, South Gate
Valero Wilmington Asphalt
Tenby Inc., Oxnard

And when you've finished that assignment, get yourself acquainted with
the REAL facts about supply and demand. Hint #1: world demand has now
reached 87 million barrel a day or some 1,000 barrels a SECOND. Hint
#2: oil production in 33 out of the 48 major oil producing countries
is now in decline due to field exhaustion, and this includes Kuwait,
Mexico, Britain's North Sea and, most recently, Russia. Hint #3: oil
producing countries are exporting less crude because of rapidly rising
domestic demand.

Cheers,
Paul

I stand corrected on the refineries. I was having a conversation with
the owner of a local gas station the other day, and clearly
misunderstood him. As to the real facts of supply and demand, I was
only quoting the WSJ, so perhaps you can straighten them out if you
believe they're confused.

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:20:45 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
Paul M. Eldridge wrote:

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:21:33 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

The price of gas, like all things, is being manipulated by the puppet
masters of the world. According to the Wall Street Journal, if based on
supply and demand, it would be about $1.50. In California there are two
refineries, and they take turns shutting down for one phony reason or
another, to artificially exacerbate the "shortage."

There are only *TWO* oil refineries in California? Then perhaps you
would be so kind as to select which two from the following list:

BP West Coast Products LLC, Carson
Chevron U.S.A. Inc., El Segundo
Chevron U.S.A. Inc., Richmond
Tesoro Refining & Marketing Company, Golden Eagle
Shell Oil Products US, Martinez
ExxonMobil Refining & Supply Company, Torrance
Valero Benicia
ConocoPhillips, Wilmington
Shell Oil Products US, Wilmington
Valero (Ultramar) Wilmington
ConocoPhillips, Rodeo San Francisco
Big West of California LLC, Bakersfield
Paramount Petroleum Corporation, Paramount
ConocoPhillips, Santa Maria
Edgington Oil Company, Long Beach
Kern Oil & Refining Company, Bakersfield
San Joaquin Refining Company Inc., Bakersfield
Greka Energy, Santa Maria
Lunday Thagard, South Gate
Valero Wilmington Asphalt
Tenby Inc., Oxnard

And when you've finished that assignment, get yourself acquainted with
the REAL facts about supply and demand. Hint #1: world demand has now
reached 87 million barrel a day or some 1,000 barrels a SECOND. Hint
#2: oil production in 33 out of the 48 major oil producing countries
is now in decline due to field exhaustion, and this includes Kuwait,
Mexico, Britain's North Sea and, most recently, Russia. Hint #3: oil
producing countries are exporting less crude because of rapidly rising
domestic demand.

Cheers,
Paul

I stand corrected on the refineries. I was having a conversation with
the owner of a local gas station the other day, and clearly
misunderstood him. As to the real facts of supply and demand, I was
only quoting the WSJ, so perhaps you can straighten them out if you
believe they're confused.

And my apologies for being so snippy. The WSJ and the NYT, like much
of the main stream media, doesn't have a good grasp on this industry,
although there are occasional signs that they may be slowly catching
on. The target forecast of one media darling, Daniel Yergin, a CERA
energy analyst, has oil selling at $38.00 a barrel; today, it's
trading at over three times that.

Cheers,
Paul

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Matt W. Barrow" wrote:

"Walter R." wrote in message
...
$ 3.09? You must be living in a time warp. Look at our prices in San
Diego.
At 3.87, and climbing every day.

Mostly because of Mr. Greenspan and his insane "monetary
accommodation".
The dollar has lost 30% of its value and, naturally, we have to pay
more
dollars for the same amount of oil.

But just 16 months ago, many of us were paying just over $2.00 a gallon
in
many areas.

Greenspan's "monetary accomodation" began in the late 90's and continues
today. So why the CURRENT price surge, and why did it take so long to hit
home?

The price of gas, like all things, is being manipulated by the puppet
masters of the world. According to the Wall Street Journal, if based on
supply and demand, it would be about $1.50.

OPEC.

In California there are two
refineries, and they take turns shutting down for one phony reason or
another, to artificially exacerbate the "shortage."

Wow! Right out of the late 1970's.

In article ,
"Walter R." wrote:

Where in the WSJ did you find this little gem? I subscribe to the WSJ,
including the on-line, but I cannot find a reference to your quote anywhere
in the WSJ or its archives.

It is intellectually dishonest to try to prove an alleged fact just by a
vague reference to a newspaper.

--
Walter
www.rationality.net
-

In that case, I retract my statement, with apologies to you and the rest
of the group. Thanks for setting me straight. And a reminder to myself
not to pass along hearsay information as gospel, regardless of the
credibility of the source.

Smitty

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:40:58 -0300, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

With regards to natural gas, the Nymex Henry Hub price is up 6 per
cent this week, trading at $10.59 per MM BTU -- this price has
*doubled* in the past eight months alone. With further expected
declines in conventional and LNG imports, and as we start to move into
the hot summer months when utilities run their gas generators flat out
to meet increased air conditioning loads, we can expect even greater
upward pressure on price.

This Bloomberg news item just came over the wire. It tells us Goldman
Sachs has revised its forecast for natural gas prices this coming
winter to $13.00 per MM BTU, up from $10.50 -- a 24 per cent increase
over their previous estimate. Don't be surprised if this projection
gets ratcheted-up further if we have another hot summer and storage
levels remain below their five-year historical averages.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...M&refer=energy

If you haven't already taken steps to reduce your home's energy
demands, I wouldn't advise putting it off much longer.

Cheers,
Paul

On Apr 18, 12:24*pm, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:40:58 -0300, Paul M. Eldridge

wrote:
With regards to natural gas, the Nymex Henry Hub price is up 6 per
cent this week, trading at $10.59 per MM BTU -- this price has
*doubled* in the past eight months alone. * With further expected
declines in conventional and LNG imports, and as we start to move into
the hot summer months when utilities run their gas generators flat out
to meet increased air conditioning loads, we can expect even greater
upward pressure on price.

This Bloomberg news item just came over the wire. *It tells us Goldman
Sachs has revised its forecast for natural gas prices this coming
winter to $13.00 per MM BTU, up from $10.50 -- a 24 per cent increase
over their previous estimate. *Don't be surprised if this projection
gets ratcheted-up further if we have another hot summer and storage
levels remain below their five-year historical averages.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...ZwO3prglM&refe....

If you haven't already taken steps to reduce your home's energy
demands, I wouldn't advise putting it off much longer.

Cheers,
Paul

Great information, not sure it belongs in this discussion.

My house produces more electricity than I consume and my higest gas
bill last winter was $80.00

Think and do Whole House Performance, if your contractor is not ask
him/her why not, then show your support by hiring their competition
that does.

Andy

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:07:53 -0700 (PDT), Andy Energy
wrote:

Great information, not sure it belongs in this discussion.

My house produces more electricity than I consume and my higest gas
bill last winter was $80.00

Think and do Whole House Performance, if your contractor is not ask
him/her why not, then show your support by hiring their competition
that does.

Andy

Hi Andy,

I've taken this conversation way off-course, but the key point to take
away is that the era of cheap energy is rapidly coming to a close and
that most of us are ill-prepared to make the transition. And it's not
just a matter of cost -- we need to prepare ourselves for a supply
situation that could be far more chaotic than in the past and that
could potentially affect our lives in ways most of us can't even begin
to imagine. We're already starting to see evidence of this elsewhere
in the world and it would be naive and, indeed, arrogant to believe
we're somehow immune from all this given that, for the most part,
we're at the tail-end of the supply chain. Keep a close eye on the
natural gas market -- the next couple of years are going to be rather
interesting.

Cheers,
Paul

ransley said something like:
On Apr 14, 10:19 am, "S. Barker" wrote:

....[snip]...

NO tankless will give 140 - 160 degree water at full flow. And
especially when the incoming water is 36-38 degrees. So Stick your
tankless.

s

Your stupidity is still enlivening us here, mr S. Barker, Go check
Takagi for 180f units, but the only person needing 140+ is someone
using it for home heating, and its done, and they are made to do 180f.
My savings and paybak are long up your ass Barker, you bark, but its
bs.You really dont know **** about tankless- do you barkass.

How on earth did I ignite such a thread? Sorry to all involved....had no
idea...

How on earth did I ignite such a thread? �Sorry to all involved.....had no
idea... �

dont feel bad its happened before and will again, and is far better
than the spam currently flooding here...........

tankless is a hot button here............

said something like:
How on earth did I ignite such a thread? ?Sorry to all
involved....had no idea... ?

dont feel bad its happened before and will again, and is far better
than the spam currently flooding here...........

tankless is a hot button here............

Well, I've been in usenet since 1995, so I've accidentally stumbled into my
share of fire hazzards, but it still warranted a comment I thought.

So which is better, tanked or tankless?

(j/k, author runs for cover.... )

On Apr 15, 12:02 pm, "S. Barker" wrote:
Well mr. RANSLEYASS, it's still 3.09 here in kc. I don't see it hitting $4
here THIS summer. Watch us at www.kcgasprices.com so i don't have to keep
telling you.

Still hanging on to that belief? Based on your link it's gone up
sixty or seventy cents per gallon in less than two months. Your
powers of prognostication are wanting.

R

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:22:20 -0300, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

"Paul M. Eldridge" wrote in message
. ..

I'm also predicting gasoline will hit $2.00 a gallon... umm, on second
thought, make that $3.00 a gallon... no, wait!... $4.00 a gallon.

Cheers,
Paul

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:31:00 -0500, "S. Barker"
wrote:

Ya, really. I get a great big laugh everytime i hear someone say "gas will
be $4 a gallon by the end of summer". YA YA, you been telling me that for
7 years now. Some day they will be right... LMMFAO!!

Paging Mr. S Barker. Mr. Barker to the courtesy phones.

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/

Cheers,
Paul

On Jun 8, 11:52*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Apr 15, 12:02 pm, "S. Barker" wrote:

Well mr. RANSLEYASS, it's still 3.09 here in kc. *I don't see it hitting $4
here THIS summer. * Watch us atwww.kcgasprices.comso i don't have to keep
telling you.

Still hanging on to that belief? *Based on your link it's gone up
sixty or seventy cents per gallon in less than two months. *Your
powers of prognostication are wanting.

R

And now how much higher is it going?

On Jun 8, 1:27 pm, ransley wrote:
On Jun 8, 11:52 am, RicodJour wrote:
On Apr 15, 12:02 pm, "S. Barker" wrote:

Well mr. RANSLEYASS, it's still 3.09 here in kc. I don't see it hitting $4
here THIS summer. Watch us atwww.kcgasprices.comsoi don't have to keep
telling you.

Still hanging on to that belief? Based on your link it's gone up
sixty or seventy cents per gallon in less than two months. Your
powers of prognostication are wanting.

And now how much higher is it going?

It's easier to point out the want of prognostication powers in others
than to have the power yourself.

R

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 10:27:02 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:

On Jun 8, 11:52*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Apr 15, 12:02 pm, "S. Barker" wrote:

Well mr. RANSLEYASS, it's still 3.09 here in kc. *I don't see it hitting $4
here THIS summer. * Watch us atwww.kcgasprices.comso i don't have to keep
telling you.

Still hanging on to that belief? *Based on your link it's gone up
sixty or seventy cents per gallon in less than two months. *Your
powers of prognostication are wanting.

R

And now how much higher is it going?

I don't think anyone can give you a good answer. However, one thing
to note is that the crack spread as shown below has all but
disappeared, so if refinery margins eventually return to normal levels
(and if that doesn't happen soon, many refiners will go out of
business), gas will be selling between $4.30 and $4.50 a gallon. In
California, regular unleaded is already in the range of $4.45 to $4.50
and it's likely just a matter of time before the rest of the country
follows suit.

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/

Crude oil jumped almost eleven dollars a barrel on Friday and that
came on the heels of some five and a half dollars the day before.
Many in the industry believe $150.00 a barrel is just weeks away, so
in the absense of a world-wide recession, expect continued upward
pressure.

Cheers,
Paul

Still quite a ways from $4. $3.65 friday nite. hollar at me when we see
the $4.....

s


"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Apr 15, 12:02 pm, "S. Barker" wrote:
Well mr. RANSLEYASS, it's still 3.09 here in kc. I don't see it hitting
$4
here THIS summer. Watch us at www.kcgasprices.com so i don't have to
keep
telling you.

Still hanging on to that belief? Based on your link it's gone up
sixty or seventy cents per gallon in less than two months. Your
powers of prognostication are wanting.

R

Still here..... Still $3.65 a gallon.

s


"Paul M. Eldridge" wrote in message
...

Paging Mr. S Barker. Mr. Barker to the courtesy phones.
Cheers,
Paul

$3.58 Friday and Saturday until about noon. Hit $3.77 at the
cheap stations by Saturday afternoon. I've been afraid to go out
today.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"S. Barker" wrote in message
...
Still quite a ways from $4. $3.65 friday nite. hollar at me
when we see the $4.....

s


"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Apr 15, 12:02 pm, "S. Barker"
wrote:
Well mr. RANSLEYASS, it's still 3.09 here in kc. I don't see
it hitting $4
here THIS summer. Watch us at www.kcgasprices.com so i don't
have to keep
telling you.

Still hanging on to that belief? Based on your link it's gone
up
sixty or seventy cents per gallon in less than two months.
Your
powers of prognostication are wanting.

R

"Paul M. Eldridge" wrote in message
.. .

Paging Mr. S Barker. Mr. Barker to the courtesy phones.
Cheers,
Paul

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 14:08:59 -0500, "S. Barker"
wrote:

Still here..... Still $3.65 a gallon.

s

Or $4.19 if you happen to fill-up at the Sinclair station at 75th and
State Line. But that's hardly the point, given my comments were with
respect to the **national** average.

Cheers,
Paul

"S. Barker" wrote in message
...
Still quite a ways from $4. $3.65 friday nite. hollar at me when we see
the $4.....

s

In my town, gas is $4.33 and heating oil is $4.50

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote

Still quite a ways from $4. $3.65 friday nite. hollar at me when we see
the $4.....

In my town, gas is $4.33 and heating oil is $4.50

Depends on state taxes. Gas running (E10) 3.72$ most places. Used to be
almost everyone was same price but now we are getting 5-10cent shifts within
a mile of each other.

On Jun 8, 3:33*pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"S. Barker" wrote in message

...

Still quite a ways from $4. *$3.65 friday nite. *hollar at me when we see
the $4.....

s

In my town, gas is $4.33 and heating oil is $4.50

I pay 4.36, regular, I hope its not as some say, near 5 by 4th of
july, this is the making for a long big recession especialy to hurt
the lower class, I already see very bad effects.

Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 10:27:02 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:


On Jun 8, 11:52 am, RicodJour wrote:

On Apr 15, 12:02 pm, "S. Barker" wrote:


Well mr. RANSLEYASS, it's still 3.09 here in kc. I don't see it hitting $4
here THIS summer. Watch us atwww.kcgasprices.comso i don't have to keep
telling you.

Still hanging on to that belief? Based on your link it's gone up
sixty or seventy cents per gallon in less than two months. Your
powers of prognostication are wanting.

R

And now how much higher is it going?


I don't think anyone can give you a good answer. However, one thing
to note is that the crack spread as shown below has all but
disappeared, so if refinery margins eventually return to normal levels
(and if that doesn't happen soon, many refiners will go out of
business), gas will be selling between $4.30 and $4.50 a gallon. In
California, regular unleaded is already in the range of $4.45 to $4.50
and it's likely just a matter of time before the rest of the country
follows suit.

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/

Crude oil jumped almost eleven dollars a barrel on Friday and that
came on the heels of some five and a half dollars the day before.
Many in the industry believe $150.00 a barrel is just weeks away, so
in the absense of a world-wide recession, expect continued upward
pressure.

Cheers,
Paul

*will be?* it already is, here. just filled up, regular was $4.03;
premium was over $4.30.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 18:10:02 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 10:27:02 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:


On Jun 8, 11:52 am, RicodJour wrote:

On Apr 15, 12:02 pm, "S. Barker" wrote:


Well mr. RANSLEYASS, it's still 3.09 here in kc. I don't see it hitting $4
here THIS summer. Watch us atwww.kcgasprices.comso i don't have to keep
telling you.

Still hanging on to that belief? Based on your link it's gone up
sixty or seventy cents per gallon in less than two months. Your
powers of prognostication are wanting.

R

And now how much higher is it going?


I don't think anyone can give you a good answer. However, one thing
to note is that the crack spread as shown below has all but
disappeared, so if refinery margins eventually return to normal levels
(and if that doesn't happen soon, many refiners will go out of
business), gas will be selling between $4.30 and $4.50 a gallon. In
California, regular unleaded is already in the range of $4.45 to $4.50
and it's likely just a matter of time before the rest of the country
follows suit.

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/

Crude oil jumped almost eleven dollars a barrel on Friday and that
came on the heels of some five and a half dollars the day before.
Many in the industry believe $150.00 a barrel is just weeks away, so
in the absense of a world-wide recession, expect continued upward
pressure.

Cheers,
Paul

*will be?* it already is, here. just filled up, regular was $4.03;
premium was over $4.30.

nate

Hi Nate,

The national average is currently a hair over $4.00, with some areas
thirty or forty cents above or below. Again, as higher crude prices
make their way through the system and as refiners work to restore
margins, the national average should continue to move closer to $4.30
or $4.50 a gallon. Throw in a hurricane or two or war in the Middle
East and, well, all bets are off.

Cheers,
Paul

"ransley" wrote in message
I pay 4.36, regular, I hope its not as some say, near 5 by 4th of
july, this is the making for a long big recession especialy to hurt
the lower class, I already see very bad effects.

++++++++++++++++++++

Many of us have already cut back in other areas in anticipation of the next
season home heating. At today's prices, I'll be paying an extra $1700 over
the last year. That has to come from cutting back in other areas, like
eating out, vacation, wear those shoes a little longer. I'd cut back on
haircuts, but I eliminated them about three years ago.

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 18:47:49 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"ransley" wrote in message
I pay 4.36, regular, I hope its not as some say, near 5 by 4th of
july, this is the making for a long big recession especialy to hurt
the lower class, I already see very bad effects.

++++++++++++++++++++

Many of us have already cut back in other areas in anticipation of the next
season home heating. At today's prices, I'll be paying an extra $1700 over
the last year. That has to come from cutting back in other areas, like
eating out, vacation, wear those shoes a little longer. I'd cut back on
haircuts, but I eliminated them about three years ago.

Hi Edwin,

Few of us realize what lies ahead. It's not just higher gasoline
prices, but rising home heating and cooling costs and higher food
prices as well. Just about everything we purchase will be more
expensive due to increased energy and transportation costs.

In just the past two years, the price of gasoline, home heating oil
and diesel has doubled and by fall that will likely be true of natural
gas. Thermal coal prices in some parts of the country have just about
tripled in the past year which, in combination with natural gas, will
send electricity prices upward. There will be no escaping it, no
matter which way you turn.

Cheers,
Paul

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 18:47:49 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

Many of us have already cut back in other areas in anticipation of the next
season home heating. At today's prices, I'll be paying an extra $1700 over
the last year. That has to come from cutting back in other areas, like
eating out, vacation, wear those shoes a little longer. I'd cut back on
haircuts, but I eliminated them about three years ago.

Hi Edwin,

Here's a discussion of home heating oil in the great state of Maine:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j...VajugD911E7P80

I expect you'll hit the $5.00 a gallon mark sometime this fall and I'm
even hearing talk of $6.00, which in light of the recent run-up in
crude is probably not out of the question.

I'm currently paying $1.299 per litre/$4.92 a gallon, but that price
has been steadily creeping upward week after week; last year, I was
locked in at $0.889 a litre or $3.36 a gallon.

In '07-'08, I used a total of 702 litres/185 gallons of fuel oil for
space heating and domestic hot water purposes and now that my DHW is
pre-heated by a small electric tank, my consumption this coming year
should fall below 400 litres/105 gallons. At this point, heating oil
prices could double or triple again and the financial impact would be
minimal.

Cheers,
Paul

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 14:08:59 -0500, "S. Barker"
wrote:

Still here..... Still $3.65 a gallon.

Where is "here," honey? $3.99 is the best I can do in western New
York, and that's at my local buyer's club, BJ's.

And _MY_ original comment that was being referred to here was about _HERE_.


s


"Paul M. Eldridge" wrote in message
news

Or $4.19 if you happen to fill-up at the Sinclair station at 75th and
State Line. But that's hardly the point, given my comments were with
respect to the **national** average.

Cheers,
Paul

KC

s

"KLS" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 14:08:59 -0500, "S. Barker"
wrote:

Still here..... Still $3.65 a gallon.

Where is "here," honey? $3.99 is the best I can do in western New
York, and that's at my local buyer's club, BJ's.

Well now IF you wanna talk ethanol, then i can say i'm still paying $2.84
here (for E85) . And am using the explorer almost exclusively because of
it.

s


"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote

Still quite a ways from $4. $3.65 friday nite. hollar at me when we
see the $4.....

In my town, gas is $4.33 and heating oil is $4.50

Depends on state taxes. Gas running (E10) 3.72$ most places. Used to be
almost everyone was same price but now we are getting 5-10cent shifts
within a mile of each other.

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 14:36:34 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote Re 40 gal just not enough:
Replacing water heater for 2400 sq home.:

I pay 4.36, regular, I hope its not as some say, near 5 by 4th of
july, this is the making for a long big recession especialy to hurt
the lower class, I already see very bad effects.

Everything hurts the lower class, even prosperity (because the LC
doesn't benefit as much from it as everyone else).

On Jun 9, 12:02 am, "S. Barker" wrote:
And _MY_ original comment that was being referred to here was about _HERE_.

Your original comment:

From: "S. Barker"
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:59:17 -0500
Local: Tues, Apr 15 2008 11:59 am
Subject: 40 gal just not enough: Replacing water heater for 2400
sq home.
I usually go by the official national average. You could hardly call
CA or
HI a normal place.

Make up your mind - are you going by the national average or what the
absolute lowest price gas is in a 20 mile radius?

Actually, you don't have to - your opinion on where gas is going
doesn't mean anything. It's also a spurious argument to rely on the
lowest gas price listed on something like gasbuddy.com.

I'll check back with you in a month and see if you've learned to say,
"Oops, I was wrong."

R

On Jun 8, 11:04*pm, "S. Barker" wrote:
Well now IF you wanna talk ethanol, then i can say i'm still paying $2.84
here (for E85) . *And am using the explorer almost exclusively because of
it.

s

"cshenk" wrote in message

...



"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote

Still quite a ways from $4. *$3.65 friday nite. *hollar at me when we
see the $4.....

In my town, gas is $4.33 and heating oil is $4.50

Depends on state taxes. *Gas running (E10) 3.72$ most places. *Used to be
almost everyone was same price but now we are getting 5-10cent shifts
within a mile of each other.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What a Joke, an Explorer E85 is rated 14 MPG HIGHWAY, e85 is cheap
for a reason, and 14 mpg hwy is just dumb, what does it really get in
the winter in city driving, 8? The shoe fits.

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 20:27:18 -0300, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 18:47:49 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

Many of us have already cut back in other areas in anticipation of the next
season home heating. At today's prices, I'll be paying an extra $1700 over
the last year. That has to come from cutting back in other areas, like
eating out, vacation, wear those shoes a little longer. I'd cut back on
haircuts, but I eliminated them about three years ago.

Hi Edwin,

Few of us realize what lies ahead. It's not just higher gasoline
prices, but rising home heating and cooling costs and higher food
prices as well. Just about everything we purchase will be more
expensive due to increased energy and transportation costs.

In just the past two years, the price of gasoline, home heating oil
and diesel has doubled and by fall that will likely be true of natural
gas. Thermal coal prices in some parts of the country have just about
tripled in the past year which, in combination with natural gas, will
send electricity prices upward. There will be no escaping it, no
matter which way you turn.

Cheers,
Paul


Just to flesh this out a bit more...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a4kOXcpI3dQg

Note the following quote is a little out of date:

``At $4 per gallon gas, $125 per barrel oil and $10 per million Btu
natural gas, a lot of activity becomes uneconomical,'' says Mark
Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Economy.com..."

Crude oil is now trading between $135.00 and $140.00 a barrel and the
Henry Hub and NYC gate spot prices for natural gas are $12.71 and
$14.09 per MM BTU respectively.

Cheers,
Paul

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 20:27:18 -0300, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

Thermal coal prices in some parts of the country have just about
tripled in the past year which, in combination with natural gas, will
send electricity prices upward.


Don't power companies buy coal via long-term contracts--not on
the spot market?

--
Jonathan Grobe Books
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:
http://www.grobebooks.com

Jonathan Grobe wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 20:27:18 -0300, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

Thermal coal prices in some parts of the country have just about
tripled in the past year which, in combination with natural gas, will
send electricity prices upward.
....
Don't power companies buy coal via long-term contracts--not on
the spot market?

Yes, but contracts continually expire and new ones must be negotiated at
prevailing prices...

Fuel cost surcharges are standard in virtually all markets so if one
watches carefully the effects will undoubtedly start to become apparent
w/ time...

--

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 16:26:37 +0000 (UTC), Jonathan Grobe
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 20:27:18 -0300, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

Thermal coal prices in some parts of the country have just about
tripled in the past year which, in combination with natural gas, will
send electricity prices upward.


Don't power companies buy coal via long-term contracts--not on
the spot market?

Hi Jonathan,

As dpb pointed out, supply contracts allow utilities to purchase coal
at a fixed price -- or at a periodically reset price if they contain
escalator clauses -- but when they expire the new negotiated price
will reflect current market conditions; hedges or multiple contracts
that expire at different times will help soften the blow, but they
can't put off the inevitable. Higher transportation costs are another
contributing factor.

A year ago, my utility was purchasing thermal coal at $60 per metric
tonne; today, that has risen to $130 per tonne and the general
expectation is that it will be heading higher. They've applied for a
12.1 per cent increase and are negotiating with the PUC to establish a
separate fuel rider, which tends to suggests they expect greater
long-term price volatility.

Cheers,
Paul

On Jun 8, 3:07 pm, "S. Barker" wrote:
Still quite a ways from $4. $3.65 friday nite. hollar at me when we see
the $4.....

Yeah? That was Friday, what is it now?

R