JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Rudy Canoza" wrote in message
link.net...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:


Hardly a reason to let them come in. If they were tossed out for
being illegal, then three things would happen. Some things wouldn't
get
done because at "real" wages (w/o the extra illegals) they just aren't
profitable.
Conscripted people will work for minimum wage. No need to see jobs
vanish
and things not get done.

Can we at least pretend to stay within the confines of reality?
Which part of the ABOVE do you consider to be a departure from reality?
18 year olds already work **** jobs and they're happy to get them. They
rarely stick around for more than a year anyway.
They don't do it at the point of a gun.


In other instances, the wages and to a greater or larger
extent prices would go up.
Not if legal replacement workers receive the same wages as illegals.
But that is assuming a repeal of the laws of supply and demand.
Again try to keep it kinda sorta real.
We're discussing a hypothetical situation he All the meat heads who
want the illegals out - they get their wish and they're gone tomorrow,
just in time for planting season across much of America. How do you
replace them, and what do you pay them?
Farmers just have to pay higher wages, that's all.

Are you ready for $8.00 per pound lettuce & broccoli? How do you think that
would affect low income people?


Maybe some of those "low income people" could take jobs picking that
lettuce and broccoli.

Rudy Canoza wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Rudy Canoza" wrote in message
link.net...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:


Hardly a reason to let them come in. If they were tossed out
for
being illegal, then three things would happen. Some things
wouldn't get
done because at "real" wages (w/o the extra illegals) they just
aren't
profitable.
Conscripted people will work for minimum wage. No need to see jobs
vanish
and things not get done.

Can we at least pretend to stay within the confines of reality?
Which part of the ABOVE do you consider to be a departure from
reality? 18 year olds already work **** jobs and they're happy to
get them. They rarely stick around for more than a year anyway.
They don't do it at the point of a gun.


In other instances, the wages and to a greater or larger
extent prices would go up.
Not if legal replacement workers receive the same wages as illegals.
But that is assuming a repeal of the laws of supply and demand.
Again try to keep it kinda sorta real.
We're discussing a hypothetical situation he All the meat heads
who want the illegals out - they get their wish and they're gone
tomorrow, just in time for planting season across much of America.
How do you replace them, and what do you pay them?
Farmers just have to pay higher wages, that's all.

Are you ready for $8.00 per pound lettuce & broccoli?

I doubt it would go that high. I think those two crops, for one things,
are things that *do* lend themselves to more mechanization.


How do you think that would affect low income people?

Worse than it would affect higher income people. Most price increases
affect poor people more than rich people.

You're not suggesting that massive illegal immigration is countenanced
as a policy goal of providing cheap food for poor people, are you?

Massive illegal immigrant labor is for providing higher profits to the
large vegetable and fruit growers. Not to provide cheaper food to the
consumer.
If prices went up that much, many Americans would move to growing and
preserving a lot of their own vegetables as in the past.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Our ancestors came here LEGALLY. They assimilated by learning ENGLISH
and becoming Americans. These new immigrants just want to take and
epect us to cater to them. Put them in cargo containers and drop them
into the ocean!!!


When they arrived at Ellis Island, did they stay there until they achieved
citizenship? I honestly don't know, so I'm asking you.


A lot of them were sent back to their country of origin.

On Mar 9, 6:58 pm, "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

Our ancestors came here LEGALLY. They assimilated by learning ENGLISH
and becoming Americans. These new immigrants just want to take and
epect us to cater to them. Put them in cargo containers and drop them
into the ocean!!!

Are you somehow afraid of someone not speaking English?


Another lame attempt at obfuscation, trying to make it sound that the
notion of having a common language is based on fear. Having a common
language binds a country together and makes it easier for commerce,
industry, education, public safety, and govt to take place. Or are
you one of the liberals that thinks we need to put the words entrance
and exit in Spanish on doors, like Lowes recently did? That seems
racist to me, as it assumes hispanics are too stupid to figure out
where the entrance door is. And guess what, since that;s what Lowes
wants to do, I'm taking my business to HD instead.

Or should we make all the drivers tests in every language on Earth?
That's what's going on here in NJ. Next, I suppose we should make
all the highway and street signs multi-lingual too. And ballots
should be in every language too. I'm surprised that hasn't already
happened. After all, the poor folks that speak Swahili are being
discriminated against and not allowed to vote, right? And I suppose
you're a big fan of multilingual education all through school, instead
of just having students learn English first. How much does that cost
all of us? It's not fear, just practicality, good economics and
common sense.


Do they make
you feel inferior? Do you feel bad because many of them are doing better
than you do, because they are willing to work harder?

Again, you deliberately seek to smear by trying to make this an issue
about all immigration. No one here has said anything against LEGAL
immigration, which is how my ancestors came here. We do have a big
problem with uncontrolled ILLEGAL immigration. And as Rudy has
pointed out, you offer little in the way of specifics. Are you in
favor of uncontrolled immigration? Sure sounds that way. Should we
patrol and enforce this countries borders or just allow anyone to walk
across? How about some pro-illegal immigration group charters a 747
and takes it to a third world country, loads it up and lands it at
JFK. Should they be allowed to just walk right on in too? And if
not, isn't that discrimination? We let the Mexicans do it. And
what will you say when Al-Qaeda sends a team across the Mexican
border, mixing in with the million Mexicans, and they kill another
3000 Americans? Is that so far fetched? I think not, because right
now every year tens of thousands of illegals from countries other than
the Americas are coming across the Mexican border. Is that OK to
fear?








Note: After my current responses I will make one more set of responses
in about 48 hours. I am doing this because this really does not fit in this
newsgroup and I think it is time to come to an end. I will try to give
everyone a chance to ask for one more response and of course anyone is
welcome to respond after my last response.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

English is America's language. Speak English or Die!!! Yes some of
the less intelligent immigrant groups keep to themselves and cant
learn English. These are nests of crime and terrorism and must be
eradicated. All illegals need to be sent back or eliminated. Save
America

On Mar 9, 6:58 pm, "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

Our ancestors came here LEGALLY. They assimilated by learning ENGLISH
and becoming Americans. These new immigrants just want to take and
epect us to cater to them. Put them in cargo containers and drop them
into the ocean!!!

Are you somehow afraid of someone not speaking English? Do they make
you feel inferior? Do you feel bad because many of them are doing better
than you do, because they are willing to work harder?

Note: After my current responses I will make one more set of responses
in about 48 hours. I am doing this because this really does not fit in this
newsgroup and I think it is time to come to an end. I will try to give
everyone a chance to ask for one more response and of course anyone is
welcome to respond after my last response.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Two Asians walk into a bar. Next day, they own it.

That's it. The entire punch line.



wrote in message
ps.com...
English is America's language. Speak English or Die!!! Yes some of
the less intelligent immigrant groups keep to themselves and cant
learn English. These are nests of crime and terrorism and must be
eradicated. All illegals need to be sent back or eliminated. Save
America

On Mar 9, 6:58 pm, "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

Our ancestors came here LEGALLY. They assimilated by learning ENGLISH
and becoming Americans. These new immigrants just want to take and
epect us to cater to them. Put them in cargo containers and drop them
into the ocean!!!

Are you somehow afraid of someone not speaking English? Do they
make
you feel inferior? Do you feel bad because many of them are doing better
than you do, because they are willing to work harder?

Note: After my current responses I will make one more set of
responses
in about 48 hours. I am doing this because this really does not fit in
this
newsgroup and I think it is time to come to an end. I will try to give
everyone a chance to ask for one more response and of course anyone is
welcome to respond after my last response.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

And if they run out of money, they "go church, get more.".

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Two Asians walk into a bar. Next day, they own it.

That's it. The entire punch line.



wrote in message
ps.com...
English is America's language. Speak English or Die!!! Yes some of
the less intelligent immigrant groups keep to themselves and cant
learn English. These are nests of crime and terrorism and must be
eradicated. All illegals need to be sent back or eliminated. Save
America

On Mar 9, 6:58 pm, "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

Our ancestors came here LEGALLY. They assimilated by learning ENGLISH
and becoming Americans. These new immigrants just want to take and
epect us to cater to them. Put them in cargo containers and drop them
into the ocean!!!
Are you somehow afraid of someone not speaking English? Do they
make
you feel inferior? Do you feel bad because many of them are doing better
than you do, because they are willing to work harder?

Note: After my current responses I will make one more set of
responses
in about 48 hours. I am doing this because this really does not fit in
this
newsgroup and I think it is time to come to an end. I will try to give
everyone a chance to ask for one more response and of course anyone is
welcome to respond after my last response.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

wrote in message
ps.com...
English is America's language. Speak English or Die!!! Yes some of
the less intelligent immigrant groups keep to themselves and cant
learn English. These are nests of crime and terrorism and must be
eradicated. All illegals need to be sent back or eliminated. Save
America


I agree completely. However, there cannot be any exceptions, right? If you
disagree about exceptions, please tell us who you would make exceptions for.

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mar 9, 5:33 am, wrote:
If you know of employers who hire ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS of ANY
NATIONALITY...
...
NOW I KNOW BETTER NOWand SO DO YOU.

FYI

greg

Why do you see so much hate and fear?

Why do we have such disrespect for rule of law?

Why is our reaction always negative?

A natural reaction to disrespect for rule of law.

Why don't we remember that this country was founded on the principle of
immigrants being welcome Why can't we remember that nearly all of us here
have ancestors who were immigrants and who would have been illegal under
the current restrictive laws?

I think we all remember that. My grandmother and grandmother came here,
legally, from Ireland. My wife came here legally from the Philippines. But
they legal way they immigrated here is so out of fashion with you guys,
these little irritants like 'rule of law' really bother you. Are you ready
to accommodate an extra billion of the world's population who would live
here at the drop of a hat if we opened the doors?

What would it be like with all those people?

Take a visit to China and see. See the people as numerous as ants when you
step in a fireant hill. Take in a whiff at the polution. Find that you
cannot drink tap water anywhere in the country. See the crowded apartments.
Learn about the one child law that is a sorry but necessary solution to
theior overpopulation problem. And they have one of the highest standards of
living in Asia (I am not saying that overpopulation would necessarily end US
economic dominance but living here would not be so nice).

Why don't we welcome them and insist that our government eliminate the
hateful fearful barriers?

Now you are asking the right questions!

It appears that this solution would be along *legal* lines, respecting rule
of law.


Why can't people realize that most immigrants are some of the best
people who are looking for a better life and are willing to work for it.

Do you think the whole world is as stupid as you? Of course we realize that.
If you grew up in the sort of unsanitary condition, lack of medical care ND
poverty AS they did, you would be the same way. The US as it is today is a
virtual garden of eden to these people (though many of them call us
imperialists, the great satan whatever degrading term they can think of in
their deep envy of us, they would jump at the chance for a free green card
if offered).


Why have we forgotten the words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty?

Those words were insscibed by the French and did not come from the US
Constitution. It is not actually incorporated into our rule of law though
many people seem to think so. It was one of their better tricks in all of
the efforts of the French to screw us ;-))


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe
free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless,
tempest tossed, to me"

Send them ...To France...ooops, they have an immigration problem themselves.

What has happened to this country?

What has happened is that our values changed from relative to absolute.
Under relative values, 'rule of law' becomes a relative concept that is
subject to liberal interpretation (pun intended).

There are people on this group who are concerned about a Chinese invasion.
The Chinese do not wish to invade this country but Bush and his ilk inspire
the misplaced "fear" you talk about. Meanwhile, our neighbor to the south is
conducting a true, physical albiet "peaceful" invasion, overloading our
social services and truly impacting jobs right here in the "homeland" as the
Bush administration has coined the word for "domestic".

We will all be OK if we return to rule of law. If you want to increase our
population from Mexico, then change the law. The disrespect for rule of law
is what is destroying our Nation.

"Rudy Canoza" wrote
Don wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote
If the country needed soldiers badly enough, you'd be fine with
conscription.

People in favor of conscription should be the first to be conscripted.

That's true for a lot of things.

I'm in favor of one more law.
It should be that all politicians and their immediate families shall endure
the consequences of any new laws they write for a period of 10 years, even
when they are out of office, then at the end of the 10 year period they must
vote on whether said law(s) should be levied on the public at large.
I bet there'd be a whole lot less silly laws being written......

"Charlie Morgan" wrote
You obviously haven't studied my penal system proposal!

I think you would love it. I outline the underlying problem with the
entire
criminal justice system, and how to fix it. It would actually SAVE
taxpayer
money, and we would never be faced with prison overcrowding. It would add
to
national security. Wouldn't even need to endlessly argue over the death
penalty
any longer. It wouldn't be needed.

Here's mine, and its based on the true idea of *making the victim whole* as
indicated in Blacks Law Dictionary, which the current justice systems fails
at miserably.

1) All capital crimes shall be commensurated to a dollar value, ie., murder:
$1,000,000.00.
(don't even think about saying you can't place a dollar value on human life
for insurance companies do it all the time)

2) If a person has been proven to have committed murder he shall be required
to work in a secured environment for a length of time so that he will pay
restitution to the victims the amount of $1,000,000.00.

3) The convicted criminal shall also be required to pay for his upkeep
including supervision, shelter, meals, medical, clothing, etc.

4) If the convicted criminal refuses to work he will be refused food and
water.

5) The victim is faced with a choice to pay for the error of his ways or die
by his own hand, either way, the victims and the citizens will not be forced
to pay for his life on this planet.

This would not be considered forced labor for the criminal is paying the
same as every other citizen for his upkeep and maintenance.
The above would serve as a deterrent to even the most nefarious persons
considering committing a capital crime.
Currently if a person commits a capital crime and he earns himself a
permanent vacation at the expense of his victim(s) and the citizen body and
this is inherently wrong all the way around and it creates an enormous work
force for the state, ie., lawyers, police, guards, judges, adminstration
personnel, marble buildings, etc., etc.

"Rudy Canoza" wrote
Don wrote:
"Rudy Canoza" wrote
Why are you opposed to Americans wanting to exercise their *right* to
control whom they allow into the country?

YOU don't have the right to control that which you don't own.
YOU don't own a country.

The citizens of a country *do* "own" it in a manner of speaking. They
*DO* have the legal, moral and political right to control immigration.
Whether or not they have the practical ability to do so is another matter.

None of what you wrote is correct in theory or practice and you know it.
You can only control that which you own.
I started to go there over your comment in another post about *we* the
nation, but chose not to.
This country is now inhabited it seems but a whole bunch of people that have
lost their sense of identity and cling desperately and pathetically to some
silly notion of *we*.
We this, we that, like they haven't the first clue about being
grown-ups........

"Stefan Wolfe" wrote
Are you ready to accommodate an extra billion of the world's population
who would live here at the drop of a hat if we opened the doors?

Are YOU accomodating the 300million people that are already living in the
US?

Let me remind you that the *politicians* steal your money and then give it
to other people, some of which are these so called aliens.
Your ire shouldn't be directed at the people that receive the stolen funds
but rather the people that are doing the stealing.
If every illegal alien was shipped back to where he came from tomorrow the
politicians would still be stealing your money and giving it to other
people.

Hello?
Anybody home inside your head?

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Two Asians walk into a bar. Next day, they own it.

That's it. The entire punch line.

Load of crap, too. In the 1980s, Japanese seemed to be
buying up all of California (they already owned most of
Hawaii.) The big Japanese banks were rolling in cash.
Back then, the story making the rounds was that the
grounds of the Imperial Palace in Tokyo, if valued at
then-market prices, would have been worth more than all
commercial and residential real estate in the entire
state of California. I recall Japanese banks and
investors bought the Biltmore and the Bonaventure
hotels in downtown Los Angeles, and some other
prestigious properties in San Francisco.

So, what happened? Well, what happened is what usually
happens when rich but imprudent investors buy at the
top of the market. The Japanese banks came close to
insolvency, the properties went down in price, and the
hotels were sold for small fractions of what they had
cost.


wrote in message
ps.com...
English is America's language. Speak English or Die!!! Yes some of
the less intelligent immigrant groups keep to themselves and cant
learn English. These are nests of crime and terrorism and must be
eradicated. All illegals need to be sent back or eliminated. Save
America

On Mar 9, 6:58 pm, "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

Our ancestors came here LEGALLY. They assimilated by learning ENGLISH
and becoming Americans. These new immigrants just want to take and
epect us to cater to them. Put them in cargo containers and drop them
into the ocean!!!
Are you somehow afraid of someone not speaking English? Do they
make
you feel inferior? Do you feel bad because many of them are doing better
than you do, because they are willing to work harder?

Note: After my current responses I will make one more set of
responses
in about 48 hours. I am doing this because this really does not fit in
this
newsgroup and I think it is time to come to an end. I will try to give
everyone a chance to ask for one more response and of course anyone is
welcome to respond after my last response.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 22:22:30 GMT, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

Don wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote
If the country needed soldiers badly enough, you'd be fine with
conscription.

People in favor of conscription should be the first to be
conscripted.

That's true for a lot of things. One of my pet peeves
is law-and-order (that's pronounced as one word,
"lawnorder") suburbanites angrily voting for new
prisons and "get tough on crime" laws, then furiously
opposing the construction of prisons near them. New
prisons should always be built in the voting precincts
that voted the highest for the new prisons. If that
turns out to mean Beverly Hills or Hillsborough or
Pacific Heights, then so ****ing be it.

You obviously haven't studied my penal system proposal!

If it involves sending the criminals to Australia, count me in.

"Don" wrote in message
...
"Rudy Canoza" wrote
Don wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote
If the country needed soldiers badly enough, you'd be fine with
conscription.

People in favor of conscription should be the first to be conscripted.

That's true for a lot of things.

I'm in favor of one more law.
It should be that all politicians and their immediate families shall
endure the consequences of any new laws they write for a period of 10
years, even when they are out of office, then at the end of the 10 year
period they must vote on whether said law(s) should be levied on the
public at large.
I bet there'd be a whole lot less silly laws being written......


That should apply to wars, especially. George Bush's daughters should've
been the first soldiers to be put in the most dangerous jobs in Iraq, minus
the same safety equipment the government still cannot provide enough of for
our soldiers. Same for the children and grandchildren of every elected slob
who voted for this war. Into uniform, at gunpoint if necessary, and right
into the streets of Baghdad with all of them.

"Rudy Canoza" wrote in message
link.net...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Two Asians walk into a bar. Next day, they own it.

That's it. The entire punch line.

Load of crap, too.

Last time I visited NYC, I visited 3 bagel shops that I used to frequent
when I lived there. They're now owned by an Italian, an Asian family and the
third by an Iranian.

Load of crap? No. Foreigners come here with a purpose, and many of them seem
to achieve that purpose pretty quickly.

"Don" wrote in message
...
"Stefan Wolfe" wrote
Are you ready to accommodate an extra billion of the world's population
who would live here at the drop of a hat if we opened the doors?

Are YOU accomodating the 300million people that are already living in the
US?

This is a completely nonsensical statement. If I may ask, what are you
smoking?


Let me remind you that the *politicians* steal your money and then give it
to other people, some of which are these so called aliens.

However, unless they do it by rule of law they end up in prison, correct?
And we get to vote for politicians, correct? And if we don't like what they
do, we can at least vote them out, correct? What are you getting at anyway?
Are you saying that we must accept the illegal alien invasion because we
have corrupt politicans? Forgive me if I assert that this is a dumbass
position at best, insane at worst.

Your ire shouldn't be directed at the people that receive the stolen funds

First of all, I am not the one with ire...that appears to be your
speciality. Second, I am merely advocating the notion of rule of law being
applied to our immigration process. Stolen funds would be contrary to rule
of law.

but rather the people that are doing the stealing.
If every illegal alien was shipped back to where he came from tomorrow the
politicians would still be stealing your money and giving it to other
people.

Oh, I get it now: We should encourage illegal immigration so that corrupt
polititians no longer give the stolen money to Americans but to illegal
aliens.

Hello?
Anybody home inside your head?

I never understood how schizophrenics could really believe the reality they
thought they were in, while in the absence of logic, and while thinking
abnormal thoughts. Your comments have helped me get a better understanding
of your disorder and may I thank you for that.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Don" wrote in message
...
"Rudy Canoza" wrote
Don wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote
If the country needed soldiers badly enough, you'd be fine with
conscription.
People in favor of conscription should be the first to be conscripted.
That's true for a lot of things.
I'm in favor of one more law.
It should be that all politicians and their immediate families shall
endure the consequences of any new laws they write for a period of 10
years, even when they are out of office, then at the end of the 10 year
period they must vote on whether said law(s) should be levied on the
public at large.
I bet there'd be a whole lot less silly laws being written......


That should apply to wars, especially. George Bush's daughters should've
been the first soldiers to be put in the most dangerous jobs in Iraq, minus
the same safety equipment the government still cannot provide enough of for
our soldiers. Same for the children and grandchildren of every elected slob
who voted for this war. Into uniform, at gunpoint if necessary, and right
into the streets of Baghdad with all of them.

Another big load of crap. That's one of the things
that invalidates a lot of the whining about
"chickenhawks". There's always this sentiment that
those who voted for the war should "send" their
children to go fight it. That's bull****. We don't
have a draft in this country, and parents don't have
any right to "send" their children to do anything.

Having said that, the contrast between the two Bush
skanky whores, partying and living the sleazy Paris
Hilton / Britney Spears life, and the sense of duty
exhibited by Prince Charles's two sons, couldn't be
more stark. I don't necessarily expect the Bush skanky
whores to be in uniform in Baghdad, but I do think
there would be some more serious sense of purpose in
their lives that maybe would have them doing whatever
today's equivalent of the USO is.

"Rudy Canoza" wrote in message
thlink.net...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Don" wrote in message
...
"Rudy Canoza" wrote
Don wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote
If the country needed soldiers badly enough, you'd be fine with
conscription.
People in favor of conscription should be the first to be conscripted.
That's true for a lot of things.
I'm in favor of one more law.
It should be that all politicians and their immediate families shall
endure the consequences of any new laws they write for a period of 10
years, even when they are out of office, then at the end of the 10 year
period they must vote on whether said law(s) should be levied on the
public at large.
I bet there'd be a whole lot less silly laws being written......


That should apply to wars, especially. George Bush's daughters should've
been the first soldiers to be put in the most dangerous jobs in Iraq,
minus the same safety equipment the government still cannot provide
enough of for our soldiers. Same for the children and grandchildren of
every elected slob who voted for this war. Into uniform, at gunpoint if
necessary, and right into the streets of Baghdad with all of them.

Another big load of crap. That's one of the things that invalidates a lot
of the whining about "chickenhawks". There's always this sentiment that
those who voted for the war should "send" their children to go fight it.
That's bull****. We don't have a draft in this country, and parents don't
have any right to "send" their children to do anything.

Having said that, the contrast between the two Bush skanky whores,
partying and living the sleazy Paris Hilton / Britney Spears life, and the
sense of duty exhibited by Prince Charles's two sons, couldn't be more
stark. I don't necessarily expect the Bush skanky whores to be in uniform
in Baghdad, but I do think there would be some more serious sense of
purpose in their lives that maybe would have them doing whatever today's
equivalent of the USO is.

Excellent post. I will add (you may not agree) that women do no belong in
combat, especially in places like Iraq with the exception of those
performing nursing duties; USO work would be appropriate. If they ever do
institute a draft, including women would be carrying PC way too far
(therefore, it is likely they would call women to serve).

I wonder how many women served in Ceasar's armies, or for Hannibal or the
Visigoths?

Anyway, the Bush girls belong at home in the bars and discos just like all
the other role models. I can just imagine Paris Hilton drafted to perform
combat in Baghdad.
Ludicrous.

"Rudy Canoza" wrote in message
thlink.net...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Don" wrote in message
...
"Rudy Canoza" wrote
Don wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote
If the country needed soldiers badly enough, you'd be fine with
conscription.
People in favor of conscription should be the first to be conscripted.
That's true for a lot of things.
I'm in favor of one more law.
It should be that all politicians and their immediate families shall
endure the consequences of any new laws they write for a period of 10
years, even when they are out of office, then at the end of the 10 year
period they must vote on whether said law(s) should be levied on the
public at large.
I bet there'd be a whole lot less silly laws being written......


That should apply to wars, especially. George Bush's daughters should've
been the first soldiers to be put in the most dangerous jobs in Iraq,
minus the same safety equipment the government still cannot provide
enough of for our soldiers. Same for the children and grandchildren of
every elected slob who voted for this war. Into uniform, at gunpoint if
necessary, and right into the streets of Baghdad with all of them.

Another big load of crap. That's one of the things that invalidates a lot
of the whining about "chickenhawks". There's always this sentiment that
those who voted for the war should "send" their children to go fight it.
That's bull****. We don't have a draft in this country, and parents don't
have any right to "send" their children to do anything.


I wouldn't call it a draft. I'd call it "Put your money where you mouth is,
asshole". Nobody else gets "sent" - just the spawn of politicians. Most of
our representatives didn't think very long or hard about voting for this
train wreck. That needs to be fixed.

Joseph Meehan wrote:
"Rudy Canoza" wrote in message
link.net...
Joseph Meehan wrote:
Rudy Canoza wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:
bill allemann wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
theodoric3@lyc
Joe
You should diversify your news sourcing. You are misinformed to a
spectacular extent.
Would you like to challenge any of the specific statements I made
What "specific statements"? You posed a set of
sophomoric and loaded questions that, taken together,
indicate you think there should be no limit on
immigration; no rules at all. Your sophomoric and
loaded questions indicate an astonishingly naive
misunderstanding.
So does that mean you really don't know if any of my statements are
true or are false, only that you disagree with them or want them to be
false?
You didn't make any statements, joey. You posed a bunch of sophomoric and
loaded questions. Your questions can't be tested for truth or falsity
because they weren't statements. They were a bunch of value judgments
that you reworded into questions.

Why do you see so much hate and fear?

A invalid complex question; a loaded question, too.



[...]

Why is our reaction always negative?

Same again: invalid complex question.


[...]

Why don't we remember that this country was founded on the principle of
immigrants being welcome


Same again: invalid complex question.


Why can't we remember that nearly all of us here
have ancestors who were immigrants and who would have been illegal under the
current restrictive laws?

Same again: invalid complex question.


[...]

Why don't we welcome them and insist that our government eliminate the
hateful fearful barriers?

Same again: invalid complex question.


[snip remaining bull**** complex questions and tiresome ideology]

It's still the same crap. You ask a bunch of loaded
and invalid complex questions, as if the premises are
established as fact, when they are not - they are
merely your highly partisan and ideological values,
based on misstatements of fact about what this country
has done in the past.

You support entirely unrestricted immigration, for
unspecified reasons that I suspect, given your
approach, are really bad. The rest of the country
doesn't, and doesn't consider you to have any moral
standing to be wagging a finger in our faces.


Note: After my current responses I will make one more set of responses
in about 48 hours. I am doing this because this really does not fit in this
newsgroup and I think it is time to come to an end. I will try to give
everyone a chance to ask for one more response and of course anyone is
welcome to respond after my last response.

Rudy Canoza wrote:
CptDondo wrote:

Really? So was a black man free to immigrate here and 'assimilate'?
How about a Chinese coolie laborer? How about an Indian from South
America? Or perhaps a Mexican?

I don't know about the blacks. Up until the latter half of the 19th
century, the others didn't have a problem.


LOL. You "don't know abou the blacks?" Dude, study your American
history. And the others "didn't have a problem?" Yeesh.

CptDondo wrote:
Rudy Canoza wrote:
CptDondo wrote:

Really? So was a black man free to immigrate here and 'assimilate'?
How about a Chinese coolie laborer? How about an Indian from South
America? Or perhaps a Mexican?

I don't know about the blacks. Up until the latter half of the 19th
century, the others didn't have a problem.


LOL. You "don't know abou the blacks?" Dude, study your American
history.

I'm aware of the treatment of black slaves. I don't
know anything about the treatment of black foreigners
who came here. I think you don't know anything about
it, either.


And the others "didn't have a problem?"

Right. Up until the time when racial exclusion laws
began to be passed in the latter half of the 19th
century, they didn't have a problem immigrating here.

CptDondo wrote:
Rudy Canoza wrote:
CptDondo wrote:

Really? So was a black man free to immigrate here and 'assimilate'?
How about a Chinese coolie laborer? How about an Indian from South
America? Or perhaps a Mexican?

I don't know about the blacks. Up until the latter half of the 19th
century, the others didn't have a problem.


LOL. You "don't know abou the blacks?" Dude, study your American
history. And the others "didn't have a problem?" Yeesh.


Look at what them doo-goodin' libruls at that south poverty law sinter
done said 'bout them guest worker pograms that the Bushies are so
favorable about.

http://www.splcenter.org/legal/guestreport/index.jsp




--
"We have chosen in this decade to invest not in people but in things.
We have chosen to allocate our resources to undertakings which bring
short-run profits to individuals rather than to those which bring
long-run profits to the nation."
Arthur Schlesinger

jerryl wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...


Do you really believe that the same rules are applied today as
then? Are the hoops the same or have they changed?

I am not a contractor. To the best of my knowledge no one I every
hired was in the US illegally. The only non-citizen I ever hired was
Russian.

It's not the same. It's easier to get into the country legally today
than it was 100 years ago. If you were standing in line to get into a
movie for 45 minutes and someone just cut ahead of you without
waiting I'm sure you would be ****ed.


I think not. My grandparents were able to come into this country about
115 years ago with no problems and did not have to wait for a quota opening.
Today the quotas are full and some people from the same country must wait
for years to be allowed over.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

bill allemann wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
theodoric3@lyc


Joe
You should diversify your news sourcing. You are misinformed to a
spectacular extent.

Is that why you snipped them, failed to make any specific objections and
off no evidence to the contrary?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

bill allemann wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
theodoric3@lyc


Joe
You should diversify your news sourcing. You are misinformed to a
spectacular extent.

You seem to like that response. You also seem to consistently snip the
prior message. Do you do that to take the attention away from any facts?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

HeyBub wrote:
...

If it involves sending the criminals to Australia, count me in.

Does that mean you want a free one way trip to Australia? :-)

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

wrote:
On Mar 9, 6:58 pm, "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

Our ancestors came here LEGALLY. They assimilated by learning
ENGLISH and becoming Americans. These new immigrants just want to
take and epect us to cater to them. Put them in cargo containers
and drop them into the ocean!!!

Are you somehow afraid of someone not speaking English?


Another lame attempt at obfuscation, trying to make it sound that the
notion of having a common language is based on fear. Having a common
language binds a country together and makes it easier for commerce,
industry, education, public safety, and govt to take place.

Since I believe Chinese is the most spoken language in the world, let's
go one better and demand everyone in the world learn Chinese.

Or are
you one of the liberals that thinks we need to put the words entrance
and exit in Spanish on doors, like Lowes recently did? That seems
racist to me, as it assumes hispanics are too stupid to figure out
where the entrance door is. And guess what, since that;s what Lowes
wants to do, I'm taking my business to HD instead.

As I recall HD already has Spanish signs. BTW I believe Lowes and HD
(Penny's as well) have had Entrance and Exit on their doors for as long as I
have seen Lowes or HD. I guess that means they think English speakers are
that stupid?



Or should we make all the drivers tests in every language on Earth?
That's what's going on here in NJ. Next, I suppose we should make
all the highway and street signs multi-lingual too. And ballots
should be in every language too. I'm surprised that hasn't already
happened. After all, the poor folks that speak Swahili are being
discriminated against and not allowed to vote, right? And I suppose
you're a big fan of multilingual education all through school, instead
of just having students learn English first. How much does that cost
all of us? It's not fear, just practicality, good economics and
common sense.

So are you saying those are not good ideas? Why. If you are worried
about cost, then what about the school where most of the students speak a
foreign language. Why teach the majority to speak English when you could
just teach the English speakers to speak the foreign language?



Do they make
you feel inferior? Do you feel bad because many of them are doing
better than you do, because they are willing to work harder?

Again, you deliberately seek to smear by trying to make this an issue
about all immigration.

If the shoe fits.

I see it much like the thoughts prior to the end of WWII where most
people thought African Americans were too stupid to run heavy machinery. It
took a war to help change our minds.

No one here has said anything against LEGAL
immigration, which is how my ancestors came here. We do have a big
problem with uncontrolled ILLEGAL immigration.

I have no problem with the different in legal and illegal immigration,
but I do have a problem when the laws are written to use immigration law to
discriminate and limit who may enter the US based on things like what
country they are coming from or what language they speak or what special
skills they may or may not have.

You speak as if the test is the immigration law and somehow the
immigration law is without flaws and is capable of determining who should
and should not come in to this country. I suggest the law itself is far
more flawed than the "illegal" immigrants who are only illegal because of
our biased hateful laws.

It is those laws written by hateful fearfully citizens that should be
the subject of shame.

And as Rudy has
pointed out, you offer little in the way of specifics. Are you in
favor of uncontrolled immigration?

I would rather see uncontrolled immigration than what we have. We have
uncontrolled movement from state to state in the US. It works. We don't
check everyone who moves from one state to another. The EU has removed
nearly all restrictions on movement between their member states. While
there are some glitches, it is working well.

Again what exactly do you fear?

I have yet to hear any specific reason why we should be so restrictive.
It always seems to fall back on that silly "Illegal" argument. That can be
fixed by a simple change in the law and make them legal.

Sure sounds that way. Should we
patrol and enforce this countries borders or just allow anyone to walk
across?

Should we patrol the boarders of NY?

How about some pro-illegal immigration group charters a 747
and takes it to a third world country, loads it up and lands it at
JFK. Should they be allowed to just walk right on in too?

Why not?? Do you really have a reason that does not come back to your
fear and hate?

And if
not, isn't that discrimination? We let the Mexicans do it. And
what will you say when Al-Qaeda sends a team across the Mexican
border, mixing in with the million Mexicans, and they kill another
3000 Americans?

Back to the old fear game again. Some individuals kill 3,000 US
citizens. Then we go over and get far more than 3,000 of our citizens
killed trying to take over their country (or is that really their oil?) and
kill far more than 3,000 of their innocent citizens.

Is that so far fetched? I think not, because right
now every year tens of thousands of illegals from countries other than
the Americas are coming across the Mexican border. Is that OK to
fear?

I feel very sorry for someone like you who appears to live their life
in constant fear.




Note: After my current responses I will make one more set of
responses in about 48 hours. I am doing this because this really
does not fit in this newsgroup and I think it is time to come to an
end. I will try to give everyone a chance to ask for one more
response and of course anyone is welcome to respond after my last
response.


Note: This is one of my last messages as noted above.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

wrote:
English is America's language.

Exactly where does it say that?

Speak English or Die!!! Yes some of
the less intelligent immigrant groups keep to themselves and cant
learn English. These are nests of crime and terrorism and must be
eradicated. All illegals need to be sent back or eliminated. Save
America


I got a good idea. Lets send back all those who have come into this
county not knowing English and all their children and their children etc.
It is going to be lonely around here, but since my ancestors spoke two
languages I guess I get to stay, how about you?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Rudy Canoza" wrote in message
link.net...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Two Asians walk into a bar. Next day, they own it.

That's it. The entire punch line.

Load of crap, too.

Last time I visited NYC, I visited 3 bagel shops that I used to
frequent when I lived there. They're now owned by an Italian, an
Asian family and the third by an Iranian.

Load of crap? No. Foreigners come here with a purpose, and many of
them seem to achieve that purpose pretty quickly.

Yes. They come here to work hard and to prosper. For those who want to
work with the English speakers here, they learn English. Why do so many
people fear having hard working people come here. Do they think they might
make them look bad???


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Stefan Wolfe wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mar 9, 5:33 am, wrote:
If you know of employers who hire ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS of ANY
NATIONALITY...
...
NOW I KNOW BETTER NOWand SO DO YOU.

FYI

greg

Why do you see so much hate and fear?

Why do we have such disrespect for rule of law?

I don't disrespect the rule of law. I do disrespect may laws and among
them are the hateful fearful immigration laws we have the make people who
are doing what should be legal illegal.

How would you feel about a low that said anyone named Wolf could no
longer access the internet nor drive a car?


Why is our reaction always negative?

A natural reaction to disrespect for rule of law.

Sure, that's why we made such nice friendly laws. Right ....



Why don't we remember that this country was founded on the
principle of immigrants being welcome Why can't we remember that
nearly all of us here have ancestors who were immigrants and who
would have been illegal under the current restrictive laws?

I think we all remember that. My grandmother and grandmother came
here, legally, from Ireland.

So did mine, but today it is unlikely that your grandparents nor mine
could come here now. Many Irish without any criminal records etc on record
are denied the opportunity to come the the US because of the quota. Green
cards are only good for so long and then they become illegal.

My wife came here legally from the
Philippines. But they legal way they immigrated here is so out of
fashion with you guys, these little irritants like 'rule of law'
really bother you. Are you ready to accommodate an extra billion of
the world's population who would live here at the drop of a hat if we
opened the doors?
What would it be like with all those people?

I don't know, but it might be far better than it is now, and certainly
better than it might be.



Take a visit to China and see. See the people as numerous as ants
when you step in a fireant hill. Take in a whiff at the polution.
Find that you cannot drink tap water anywhere in the country. See the
crowded apartments. Learn about the one child law that is a sorry but
necessary solution to theior overpopulation problem. And they have
one of the highest standards of living in Asia (I am not saying that
overpopulation would necessarily end US economic dominance but living
here would not be so nice).

So I take it you think you have some God given right to more of the
earth's resources because ...... I guess because we have the most guns and
bombs???


Why don't we welcome them and insist that our government
eliminate the hateful fearful barriers?

Now you are asking the right questions!

It appears that this solution would be along *legal* lines,
respecting rule of law.


Why can't people realize that most immigrants are some of the best
people who are looking for a better life and are willing to work for
it.

Do you think the whole world is as stupid as you? Of course we
realize that. If you grew up in the sort of unsanitary condition,
lack of medical care ND poverty AS they did, you would be the same
way. The US as it is today is a virtual garden of eden to these
people (though many of them call us imperialists, the great satan
whatever degrading term they can think of in their deep envy of us,
they would jump at the chance for a free green card if offered).


Why have we forgotten the words inscribed on the Statue of
Liberty?

Those words were insscibed by the French and did not come from the US
Constitution. It is not actually incorporated into our rule of law
though many people seem to think so. It was one of their better
tricks in all of the efforts of the French to screw us ;-))


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these,
the homeless, tempest tossed, to me"

Send them ...To France...ooops, they have an immigration problem
themselves.

What has happened to this country?

What has happened is that our values changed from relative to
absolute. Under relative values, 'rule of law' becomes a relative
concept that is subject to liberal interpretation (pun intended).

There are people on this group who are concerned about a Chinese
invasion. The Chinese do not wish to invade this country but Bush and
his ilk inspire the misplaced "fear" you talk about. Meanwhile, our
neighbor to the south is conducting a true, physical albiet
"peaceful" invasion, overloading our social services and truly
impacting jobs right here in the "homeland" as the Bush
administration has coined the word for "domestic".
We will all be OK if we return to rule of law. If you want to
increase our population from Mexico, then change the law. The
disrespect for rule of law is what is destroying our Nation.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Please )

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Don" wrote in message
...
"Rudy Canoza" wrote
Don wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote
If the country needed soldiers badly enough, you'd be fine with
conscription.

People in favor of conscription should be the first to be conscripted.

That's true for a lot of things.

I'm in favor of one more law.
It should be that all politicians and their immediate families shall
endure the consequences of any new laws they write for a period of 10
years, even when they are out of office, then at the end of the 10 year
period they must vote on whether said law(s) should be levied on the
public at large.
I bet there'd be a whole lot less silly laws being written......


That should apply to wars, especially. George Bush's daughters should've
been the first soldiers to be put in the most dangerous jobs in Iraq,
minus the same safety equipment the government still cannot provide enough
of for our soldiers. Same for the children and grandchildren of every
elected slob who voted for this war. Into uniform, at gunpoint if
necessary, and right into the streets of Baghdad with all of them.

Agreed, with one caveat.
Bush & Cheney and their wives would stand in front of their children.

"Stefan Wolfe" wrote
Excellent post. I will add (you may not agree) that women do no belong in
combat,

When our new First Sargeant came on board in the Army the first thing he
said in formation is that he doesn't want any married soldiers in his ranks
and he's gonna do his best to put them out of the army.
There were 2 standards, one for the single soldiers on post and a second one
for the married guys that lived off post, and it was completely slanted in
the married guys favor.
This was in a combat arms unit in the 70's in Germany.

"Stefan Wolfe" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...
"Stefan Wolfe" wrote
Are you ready to accommodate an extra billion of the world's population
who would live here at the drop of a hat if we opened the doors?

Are YOU accomodating the 300million people that are already living in the
US?

This is a completely nonsensical statement. If I may ask, what are you
smoking?


Let me remind you that the *politicians* steal your money and then give
it to other people, some of which are these so called aliens.

However, unless they do it by rule of law they end up in prison, correct?
And we get to vote for politicians, correct? And if we don't like what
they do, we can at least vote them out, correct? What are you getting at
anyway? Are you saying that we must accept the illegal alien invasion
because we have corrupt politicans? Forgive me if I assert that this is a
dumbass position at best, insane at worst.

Your ire shouldn't be directed at the people that receive the stolen
funds

First of all, I am not the one with ire...that appears to be your
speciality. Second, I am merely advocating the notion of rule of law being
applied to our immigration process. Stolen funds would be contrary to rule
of law.

but rather the people that are doing the stealing.
If every illegal alien was shipped back to where he came from tomorrow
the politicians would still be stealing your money and giving it to other
people.

Oh, I get it now: We should encourage illegal immigration so that corrupt
polititians no longer give the stolen money to Americans but to illegal
aliens.

Hello?
Anybody home inside your head?

I never understood how schizophrenics could really believe the reality
they thought they were in, while in the absence of logic, and while
thinking abnormal thoughts. Your comments have helped me get a better
understanding of your disorder and may I thank you for that.

There's something wrong with this persons circuit board.
It thinks theft is OK.
Yes, the public education system, the mass media and the gov't are doing a
fine job and this chow is a perfect example.
Don't whine when you look at your checkstub this coming Friday. LOL

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Stefan Wolfe wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mar 9, 5:33 am, wrote:
If you know of employers who hire ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS of ANY
NATIONALITY...
...
NOW I KNOW BETTER NOWand SO DO YOU.

FYI

greg

Why do you see so much hate and fear?

Why do we have such disrespect for rule of law?

I don't disrespect the rule of law. I do disrespect may laws and among
them are the hateful fearful immigration laws we have the make people who
are doing what should be legal illegal.

Immigration laws are simply one more tool the politicians employ to keep the
herd members arguing and occupied, just as that Wolfe idiot is doing.
I mean, what do you say about someone that professes to be in favor of theft
on a grand scale?

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007, Stefan Wolfe wrote:


"Rudy Canoza" wrote in message
thlink.net...

....snip...


Excellent post. I will add (you may not agree) that women do no belong in
combat, especially in places like Iraq with the exception of those
performing nursing duties; USO work would be appropriate. If they ever do
institute a draft, including women would be carrying PC way too far
(therefore, it is likely they would call women to serve).

I wonder how many women served in Ceasar's armies, or for Hannibal or the
Visigoths?


Every army in the days of Ceasar and Hannibal was accompanied by many
women. The higher ranking officers would bring their wives in many cases.
But even the rank and file often had women along. The historians did not
make a big thing of it because women were not thought to be important.
Women marched the same routes, suffered the same hunger and thirst, risked
death (or worse) at the hands of the enemy.

Did the women fight in the front lines? Sometimes but rarely. Those who
fought were more likely to be archers or slingers and fought "informally."

Are women physically and mentally equipped to be soldiers in combat? No
they are not. But then neither are men. No one is physically or mentally
equipped for combat.

Larry Mason

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Stefan Wolfe wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mar 9, 5:33 am, wrote:
If you know of employers who hire ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS of ANY
NATIONALITY...
...
NOW I KNOW BETTER NOWand SO DO YOU.

FYI

greg

Why do you see so much hate and fear?

Why do we have such disrespect for rule of law?

I don't disrespect the rule of law. I do disrespect may laws and among
them are the hateful fearful immigration laws we have the make people who
are doing what should be legal illegal.

Do you agree that anyone in the world who so wishes should be able to crach
the border? Or should only Mexicans be able to crash the border. If 500, 000
Asians want to come here in one year, should we let them? Or do you onlu
afford that priviledge to Mexicans?


How would you feel about a low that said anyone named Wolf could no
longer access the internet nor drive a car?

Most people named Wolf cannot drive a car in China, Japan, India or anyplace
that does not accept a USA drivers license. I have no problem with that, do
you? I'm sort of lost on your comment about the internet.

Many people named Wolf live behind bars...in a zoo! Same with Mr. Bear :-)



Why is our reaction always negative?

A natural reaction to disrespect for rule of law.

Sure, that's why we made such nice friendly laws. Right ....

So, if you have a problem with the laws, work to change them, don't just
ignore them.



Why don't we remember that this country was founded on the
principle of immigrants being welcome Why can't we remember that
nearly all of us here have ancestors who were immigrants and who
would have been illegal under the current restrictive laws?

I think we all remember that. My grandmother and grandmother came
here, legally, from Ireland.

So did mine, but today it is unlikely that your grandparents nor mine
could come here now.

True: The quota's for white European immigrants are miniscule, vastly
overridden by quota's for hispanics who sneak in here anyway. Quotas are
much higher for Asians but that is sort of ra repayment for past
discrimination in favor of whites.
However, no racial group has a l;egal quota anywhere near equal to the
number of Mexicans who sneak in every years, along with their Tuberculosis
and hepatitis A, diseases once declared obsiolete in our society.

s ratherMany Irish without any criminal records etc on record
are denied the opportunity to come the the US because of the quota.

Very true. Irish are white. We are attempting to diversify. But I don't
mind, as long as we are doing it in accordance with rule of law.

Green
cards are only good for so long and then they become illegal.

Only if you fail to renew or commit a felony (maybe).


My wife came here legally from the
Philippines. But they legal way they immigrated here is so out of
fashion with you guys, these little irritants like 'rule of law'
really bother you. Are you ready to accommodate an extra billion of
the world's population who would live here at the drop of a hat if we
opened the doors?
What would it be like with all those people?

I don't know, but it might be far better than it is now, and certainly
better than it might be.

A matter of opinion over which many will disagree. Unless you would like to
have a diet that consists mostly of rice.



Take a visit to China and see. See the people as numerous as ants
when you step in a fireant hill. Take in a whiff at the polution.
Find that you cannot drink tap water anywhere in the country. See the
crowded apartments. Learn about the one child law that is a sorry but
necessary solution to theior overpopulation problem. And they have
one of the highest standards of living in Asia (I am not saying that
overpopulation would necessarily end US economic dominance but living
here would not be so nice).

So I take it you think you have some God given right to more of the
earth's resources because ...... I guess because we have the most guns
and bombs???

Maybe. Ever wonder why God gave us the most guns and the most boms? ;-)


Why don't we welcome them and insist that our government
eliminate the hateful fearful barriers?

Now you are asking the right questions!

It appears that this solution would be along *legal* lines,
respecting rule of law.

I will repeat, that WAS the right question. Don't stop now. I may not agree
with your proposal but at leat it involves rule of law and I could
participate in the vote.



Why can't people realize that most immigrants are some of the best
people who are looking for a better life and are willing to work for
it.

Do you think the whole world is as stupid as you? Of course we
realize that. If you grew up in the sort of unsanitary condition,
lack of medical care ND poverty AS they did, you would be the same
way. The US as it is today is a virtual garden of eden to these
people (though many of them call us imperialists, the great satan
whatever degrading term they can think of in their deep envy of us,
they would jump at the chance for a free green card if offered).


Why have we forgotten the words inscribed on the Statue of
Liberty?

Those words were insscibed by the French and did not come from the US
Constitution. It is not actually incorporated into our rule of law
though many people seem to think so. It was one of their better
tricks in all of the efforts of the French to screw us ;-))


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these,
the homeless, tempest tossed, to me"

Send them ...To France...ooops, they have an immigration problem
themselves.

What has happened to this country?

What has happened is that our values changed from relative to
absolute. Under relative values, 'rule of law' becomes a relative
concept that is subject to liberal interpretation (pun intended).

There are people on this group who are concerned about a Chinese
invasion. The Chinese do not wish to invade this country but Bush and
his ilk inspire the misplaced "fear" you talk about. Meanwhile, our
neighbor to the south is conducting a true, physical albiet
"peaceful" invasion, overloading our social services and truly
impacting jobs right here in the "homeland" as the Bush
administration has coined the word for "domestic".
We will all be OK if we return to rule of law. If you want to
increase our population from Mexico, then change the law. The
disrespect for rule of law is what is destroying our Nation.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit