Robert wrote:

A plane that costs Canadians approx $350 (taxes in) delivered
from Lee Valley costs Americans well over a hundred bucks
CANADIAN less. There could be a nice profit to be made.

Eh?

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

Robert wrote:
A plane that costs Canadians approx $350 (taxes in) delivered from Lee Valley
costs Americans well over a hundred bucks CANADIAN less.
There could be a nice profit to be made.

Robert,

[1] This is a good opportunity for arbitrage on your part. If you are
really serious, do it! I know people who buy electronics, send the
merchandise to friends in the USA, and then pick them up. Now, these
people I know live close to the border...

[2] I don't recall any Americans complaining about how much cheaper it
would be to buy CAD at $1.50CAD/USD and buy their Lee Valley toys in
Canada at the time we had a 66-cent dollar. The exchange rate sword
cuts both ways.

[3] If you really wanted to save some money, you could do what I
recently did: I submitted an order to LV, got 7% off, and free shipping
as well. Of course, this deal that got last Saturday only works if you
were in the Toronto area this past weekend.

- Daniel

"Robert" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:00:21 -0500, Daniel H wrote:

[2] I don't recall any Americans complaining about how much cheaper it
would be to buy CAD at $1.50CAD/USD and buy their Lee Valley toys in
Canada at the time we had a 66-cent dollar. The exchange rate sword
cuts both ways.

Canadians still paid more.
There has never been a point in at least the last two years where
Canadians
didn't pay more than Americans.

I hate to feed a troll - but can't let inaccurate statements stand.... our
pricing policy overall sets US prices 2-3% higher than Canadian prices, for
the exchange rate we price with. This reflects our additional cost of
customs work, and absorbing any duty...

"Robert" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:09:54 -0500, "Robin Lee"
wrote:

Perhaps you could give us the date prices were finalized for the last
catalog so
I can check that. Because it certainly wasn't true the day I first
received it.

Frankly I believe you are lying.


You know Frank you certainly do not have to buy from LeeValley. The
information you are requesting is absolutely none of your business.

In article ,
"Robert" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:09:54 -0500, "Robin Lee" wrote:

I hate to feed a troll - but can't let inaccurate statements stand.... our
pricing policy overall sets US prices 2-3% higher than Canadian prices, for
the exchange rate we price with. This reflects our additional cost of
customs work, and absorbing any duty...

Perhaps you could give us the date prices were finalized for the last catalog
so
I can check that. Because it certainly wasn't true the day I first received
it.

Frankly I believe you are lying.


May I suggest you look at:
http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/m5?s=CAD&t=USD&a=1&c=2

You will note that any canadian who set their prices at anytime in the
last 2 years based on the current (at that time) exchange rate would
lose money on American sales quite rapidly; the CAD has steadily gained
(overall) on the USD for the last 2 years. If LV set the current batch
of prices in May/June as claimed, they got especially screwed if they
did not hedge.

The problem with your accusation is that you insist that Canadian
customers are getting screwed. There is another way to look at it:
American customers are getting a bargain at the expense of LV. Which is
the case? I can't say for sure, but your absolute insistence on viewing
it as "being screwed" tends to make me believe you are just the kind of
person who thinks everyone is out to screw you. I rather doubt you are
that desirable.

PK

Robert wrote:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:09:54 -0500, "Robin Lee"
wrote:


"Robert" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:00:21 -0500, Daniel H
wrote:

[2] I don't recall any Americans complaining about how much cheaper it
would be to buy CAD at $1.50CAD/USD and buy their Lee Valley toys in
Canada at the time we had a 66-cent dollar. The exchange rate sword
cuts both ways.

Canadians still paid more.
There has never been a point in at least the last two years where
Canadians
didn't pay more than Americans.

I hate to feed a troll - but can't let inaccurate statements stand.... our
pricing policy overall sets US prices 2-3% higher than Canadian prices,
for the exchange rate we price with. This reflects our additional cost of
customs work, and absorbing any duty...

Perhaps you could give us the date prices were finalized for the last
catalog so I can check that. Because it certainly wasn't true the day I
first received it.

Frankly I believe you are lying.

if you don't like his prices than don't support his establishment! I don't
buy from woodworkers supply, I don't even open the catalogs that they send
me, they screwed me on an order and seemed rather incompetent on fixing it,
I I don't care what there charging. if you don't like Mr Lee's prices than
go someware else no one makes you buy from him

"Paul Kierstead" wrote in message

I rather doubt you are that desirable.

Indeed ... you can safely remove all doubt.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:01:04 GMT, Robert wrote:

No, American customers are getting a bargain at the expense of Canadian
customers.
No big deal.

Think of it as the prescription drug thing, only in reverse.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:23:09 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Robert" wrote in message
.. .

Why do you guys keep responding to this retard?

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:27:16 -0500, Paul Kierstead
wrote:

Why do you guys keep responding to this retard?

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On 12 Nov 2004 17:04:29 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:01:04 GMT, Robert wrote:

Why do you guys keep responding to this retard?

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:30:52 -0700, Richard Clements
wrote:

Robert wrote:

Why do you guys keep responding to this retard?

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:30:52 -0700, Richard Clements
wrote:

Robert wrote:

Why do you guys keep responding to this retard?


Which begs the question, why post the same question so many times.

"Robert" wrote in message
...


Perhaps you could give us the date prices were finalized for the last
catalog so
I can check that. Because it certainly wasn't true the day I first
received it.

Frankly I believe you are lying.


Perhaps you can shove it. They are a reputable company that sells fine
products. If you have a problem with them take your huge amount of business
elsewhere. Lee Valley owes you no explanations.

Robert wrote:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:11:49 +0000, LRod
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:23:09 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Robert" wrote in message
...

Why do you guys keep responding to this retard?

Because that's what Rob Lee wanted.

In one of my first posts I praised Lee Valley customer service and felt it
was worth paying a bit more.

Rob Lee in his response snipped that part of my post out.
His response was basically marching orders to his groupies to flame me out
of the Wreck.

Didn't work as well as he likedg, so a few days later Rob responded with
a veiled threat.

That didn't work either. Just verified that he's an asshole.

I've already said that along with common sense, Lee Valley groupies lack
any semblance of self control.

I think someone needs a thicker tin foil hat

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:26:58 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"LRod" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:30:52 -0700, Richard Clements
wrote:

Robert wrote:

Why do you guys keep responding to this retard?


Which begs the question, why post the same question so many times.

Each of my posts was to a particular poster who had responded.

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

LRod did say:

Why do you guys keep responding to this retard?
Even retards deserve a response.
--
New project = new tool. Hard and fast rule.

LRod did say:

Why do you guys keep responding to this retard?

Even retards deserve a response.

--
New project = new tool. Hard and fast rule.

"Robert" wrote in message
...

Perhaps you could give us the date prices were finalized for the last
catalog so
I can check that. Because it certainly wasn't true the day I first
received it.


I have _zero_ knowledge of Lee Valley's actual operations.

I *do* have considerable experience with large catalog preparation,
publishing, and distribution. It is a _big_, *EXPENSIVE*, job.

You can safely assume that anything you see in the catalog was 'cast in stone'
at least 60 days before the _first_ mailings. That's the kind of time it
takes to do the printing and binding, addressing, and appropriate 'bundling'
for least-cost mail delivery.

On top of that, there is another 45 days, minimum, for the typesetting of the
changed pages, proofing, doing the color separations, etc. that are required
to have the material ready to 'go to press'.

If they're printing from a 'database', then 'applying' the 'decided upon'
currency conversion can be done for the entire catalog "shortly before" they
start the typesetting stage. If they use 'rounded' conversions -- so the
price comes out as 49.99, instead of 50.07, for example, somebody has to
review all the roundings, and possibly over-ride a round-up/round-down
decision. Pricing for every _new_ item (i.e. 'not previously published')
has to be manually reviewed, to ensure that there were no errors in the
database entry/extraction/conversion formulas for *that* item. This adds
a week or two to the time-line.

If there is any 'body copy' that makes indirect/imprecise reference to pricing,
then the pricing has to be set _before_ that body copy is written. This
shoves things back another couple of weeks, at least.

Thus, pricing ends up 'frozen' a good *FOUR*MONTHS* before the first catalogs
go in the mail.


Now, it is a _fact_ that the value of the Canadian Dollar, vs the American
Dollar was _falling_ from the first week in January, 2004, through the first
week of June, 2004. And the international futures markets show that the
_world_at_large_ expected (as late as Mid-May, 2004) that the Canadian Dollar
would remain in the US$0.71-0.75 range, *THROUGH* September of 2005. That's
right, the year TWO THOUSAND FIVE.

Starting in _mid-May, 2004_, the _further_out_ (i.e. Sept, 2005) projected
value of the CAN$ started to rise. It wasn't until the 1st week of June,
however, that the September, 2004 projected value started to rise.

It is an indisputable fact that the world-at-large did *NOT* see the run-up
in the value of the CAN$ coming. Early Spring 2004, expectations were that
the CAN$ was going to _loose_ another 1-2 cents by Summer/Fall 2005.

In article ,
Robert wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 06:58:44 +0000, (Robert Bonomi)
wrote:

"Robert" wrote in message
. ..

Perhaps you could give us the date prices were finalized for the last
catalog so
I can check that. Because it certainly wasn't true the day I first
received it.


I have _zero_ knowledge of Lee Valley's actual operations.

I *do* have considerable experience with large catalog preparation,
publishing, and distribution. It is a _big_, *EXPENSIVE*, job.

You can safely assume that anything you see in the catalog was 'cast in stone'
at least 60 days before the _first_ mailings. That's the kind of time it
takes to do the printing and binding, addressing, and appropriate 'bundling'
for least-cost mail delivery.

On top of that, there is another 45 days, minimum, for the typesetting of the
changed pages, proofing, doing the color separations, etc. that are required
to have the material ready to 'go to press'.

If they're printing from a 'database', then 'applying' the 'decided upon'
currency conversion can be done for the entire catalog "shortly before" they
start the typesetting stage. If they use 'rounded' conversions -- so the
price comes out as 49.99, instead of 50.07, for example, somebody has to
review all the roundings, and possibly over-ride a round-up/round-down
decision. Pricing for every _new_ item (i.e. 'not previously published')
has to be manually reviewed, to ensure that there were no errors in the
database entry/extraction/conversion formulas for *that* item. This adds
a week or two to the time-line.

If there is any 'body copy' that makes indirect/imprecise reference to pricing,
then the pricing has to be set _before_ that body copy is written. This
shoves things back another couple of weeks, at least.

Thus, pricing ends up 'frozen' a good *FOUR*MONTHS* before the first catalogs
go in the mail.

Silly person.
Maybe back in the stone age.

In fact, _two_years_ ago. For a U.S.-based company in the same line of
business as Lee Valley, as it happens.

I used to work for a catalog giant, Eatons, and have friends who work catalog
for Sears Canada.
They set sale cat pricing 20 days or LESS before the book hits the streets.

A 'sale catalog', by definition, is not a large catalog.
The production process is much different for a sale catalog. You get that
ability to set pricing much closer to mailing date at a significantly higher
production cost.

Funny thing, too. you can get much faster turn-around on a large number of
copies of a relatively small number of pages, than on a relatively small number
of copies of a large number of pages.

There is also the issue of the _number_ of people you're willing to throw at
the task. Which has to be amortized over the number of copies produced.

And whether the catalog production is the _only_ thing they do, or whether
they have to do 'something else' _most_ of the time.

A *BIG* company, like Sears, or Eatons, has a large advantage in all those
areas; a *much* bigger base -- at least two orders of magnitude -- to
amortize costs across, *Dedicated* departments/staff doing the work. and
and producing _many_ publications per year.

They spend considerably more on advertising, per dollar of revenue/profit,
and which is reflected in the amount of 'mark-up' they have to take.
On the other hand, because of the 'economies of scale', they get *more*
'value' per dollar spent on catalog production.

"Robert" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 08:35:33 +0000, (Robert
Bonomi)

Sears sale books in Canada are at least double the page size of Lee
Valleys MAIN
books.

You're really not too bright are you? Have you ever looked at pictures of
products from Sears between editions of catalogue? They're all the same
picture. You can go back a few years and aside from the addition of new
products, they're *all* the same picture.

Lee Valley issues new catalogues with a large proportion of new pictures.
That takes time and money.

Now top playing the ignorant whiner and screw off like a good little boy.
You may like being a troll, but there isn't anybody I know that appreciates
being disliked all the time. You contribute exactly nothing to this news
group. I've yet to see one supporter of your argument, so again, why don't
you leave? You're not wanted here. Only the basest idiot stays where they're
not appreciated. It's sheer lunacy to do otherwise.

"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message
ervers.com...
"Robert" wrote in message
...

....... Now, it is a _fact_ that the value of the Canadian Dollar, vs the
American
Dollar was _falling_ from the first week in January, 2004, through the
first
week of June, 2004. And the international futures markets show that the
_world_at_large_ expected (as late as Mid-May, 2004) that the Canadian
Dollar
would remain in the US$0.71-0.75 range, *THROUGH* September of 2005.
That's
right, the year TWO THOUSAND FIVE.

Starting in _mid-May, 2004_, the _further_out_ (i.e. Sept, 2005) projected
value of the CAN$ started to rise. It wasn't until the 1st week of June,
however, that the September, 2004 projected value started to rise.

It is an indisputable fact that the world-at-large did *NOT* see the
run-up
in the value of the CAN$ coming. Early Spring 2004, expectations were
that
the CAN$ was going to _loose_ another 1-2 cents by Summer/Fall 2005.


Isn't it the US dollar that is losing value not the CDN dollar rising?
So the prices for the US customers should be rising which won't benefit
Robert in any way. The CDN price won't change.
Anyway, I'm Canadian and I hope Robert isn't giving us a bad name down
south. It appears he is our village idiot.

BeerBoy writes:

Anyway, I'm Canadian and I hope Robert isn't giving us a bad name down
south. It appears he is our village idiot.


Jeez. Only one? We've got thousands. Or is his motto "So many villages, so
little travel time"?

Charlie Self
"It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of
common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever
ineligible for public office." H. L. Mencken

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 08:35:33 +0000,
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:

[boring stuff]

Couldn't you have laid one "false-to-fact" on him?

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:32:12 -0500, WoodMangler
calmly ranted:

LRod did say:

Why do you guys keep responding to this retard?

Even retards deserve a response.

Buhbye!


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If God approved of nudity, we all would have been born naked.
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
http://www.diversify.com Your Wild & Woody Website Wonk

"Robert" wrote in message

Why are you here? You give nothing to this news group. Nobody here supports
your argument and you contribute exactly nothing in the way of woodworking
content. I ask you again, why are you here?

Only a masochist would continue to stay where they're not wanted and not
appreciated. I ask you again, why are you here?

Answer the question. Why are you here?

"Robert" wrote in message
Several people have posted supporting my position.

I see. Prove it. What are their names?

For everyone brave enough to post there are probably 4 dozen lurkers who
also

So now you're a long distance mind reader? Is it good for you?

All you morons have done is post childish flames.

I'm a moron, but in this news group you have yet to post one woodworking
tip, instruction or helpful link to products.

I ask you again. Why are you here? Is the question too difficult to
understand? Does it need to be made simpler? Why are you here in this news
group? What do you contribute to the art of woodworking?

Answer the question. Why are you here?

"Robert" wrote in message
Several people have posted supporting my position.

I see. Prove it. What are their names?

So now everybody knows you're a liar. You can't give names of people who
have supported you.

For everyone brave enough to post there are probably 4 dozen lurkers who
also

So now you're a long distance mind reader? Is it good for you?

Stll waiting for those names liar.

I ask you again. Why are you here? Is the question too difficult to
understand? Does it need to be made simpler? Why are you here in this news
group? What do you contribute to the art of woodworking?

Answer the question. Why are you here?

Apparently, you're unable to answer this question. The only fallback you
have is to throw some more names at me. How pitiful you are, not being able
to contribute in any way, shape or form. That must be really depressing. I'd
offer my sympathies, but you're obviously unable to appreciate any type of
condolence.

Well I must admit, I supported him with the understanding about having to pay too much....

Hope I am not in trouble ( scurries off, tail between legs .... )

Alex

"AAvK" wrote in message
news:0_Cld.93817$bk1.70630@fed1read05...

Well I must admit, I supported him with the understanding about having to
pay too much....

Nobody wants to pay for something if they can find a way to pay less, but
that doesn't for one second excuse his attacks on Lee Valley. I think Lee
Valley tools are expensive too. I don't like having to pay for anything if I
can help it, but the idea of LV not existing at all is much less desirable
than what it costs me to buy from them.

On 13-Nov-2004, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:

When you're considering =relative= values in _two_ markets, the effect
of one currency rising in value is exactly identical to the other currency
falling in value.

Then compare both to the Euro and you'll see that his argument is essentially
correct. It isn't that Canadians are getting screwed - it's that the Yanks
are getting a lucky break. In other areas, of course, the falling US dollar
will hurt the US. Don't expect VI Robert to understand anything like that.

Mike

Nobody wants to pay for something if they can find a way to pay less, but
that doesn't for one second excuse his attacks on Lee Valley. I think Lee
Valley tools are expensive too. I don't like having to pay for anything if I
can help it, but the idea of LV not existing at all is much less desirable
than what it costs me to buy from them.


Oh I understand! Lee Valley is VERY desireable to have around, much better
that they DO exist than not, I've made one small order thus far, and I would
love to have the LA BP! I also think their prices are pretty fair as well, except
I think the hand planes are just a shot too high, I feel they should be at least
15% to 20 % less. And they could decide to distribute them like their one
major competitor does. If I opened my own tool store I would stock Veritas
tools, depending upon their purchase requirements.

Alex

Except the ones who want to keep jobs from being outsourced, of course.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

Nobody wants to pay for something if they can find a way to pay less, but
that doesn't for one second excuse his attacks on Lee Valley. I think Lee
Valley tools are expensive too. I don't like having to pay for anything if
I
can help it, but the idea of LV not existing at all is much less desirable
than what it costs me to buy from them.

Except in exports.

I know you understand that, you must have forgotten.

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...

In other areas, of course, the falling US dollar
will hurt the US. Don't expect VI Robert to understand anything like
that.

Mike

"AAvK" wrote in message

I would
love to have the LA BP! I also think their prices are pretty fair as well,
except
I think the hand planes are just a shot too high, I feel they should be at
least
15% to 20 % less.

What do you base this on?

Some of the other plane makers bought the tooling and amortized it 50 years
ago. Lee Valley is a relative newcomer and has a lot of tooling and
engineering costs to recoup. Planes don't sell in the volumes of
screwdrivers at Home Depot or Canadian Tire. LV is very competitive with
L-N from what I can see.
Ed

"Robert" wrote in message
Let me see. You and your fellow Lee Valley groups posts dozens of flames
and I
kick you pathetic asses so now you want to get 'reasonable'.

Why are you here? What do you contribute? What kind of mentality like yours
stays where they're not wanted?

"Robert" wrote in message

Perhaps I should ask you that.
I've been a member of this group much longer than you, or SFB Rob Lee.

Because I'm an active woodworker. You? All you've ever done is whine and
complain. I've offered tips for products, given suggestions for techniques
and presented URL's to products.

Your turn. Why are you here? What do you contribute to this news group?

Charlie Self did say:

I think the hand planes are just a shot too high, I feel they should be at
least
15% to 20 % less.

What do you base this on?

His ability to run someone else's business affairs from afar and without facts.

I think the boy may just have a future in politics!

--
New project = new tool. Hard and fast rule.

What do you base this on?

Actual cost? The amount of money that leaves the hand for a handplane...?

Some of the other plane makers bought the tooling and amortized it 50 years
ago. Lee Valley is a relative newcomer and has a lot of tooling and
engineering costs to recoup. Planes don't sell in the volumes of
screwdrivers at Home Depot or Canadian Tire. LV is very competitive with
L-N from what I can see.
Ed

I don't think LV is supremely competetive from what I can see of price and product,
and availability. They just do what they do, and have what they have. Both brands are
very different designs.

The 112's for example, the LN is $81 more than the Veritas, both made of ductile
iron. The Veritas is a great deal considering the quality and color of the Kunz 112 @
$89 (they need tuning from what I have read, and look goofy as hell). The St. James
Bay 112 is $250 finished. So, Veritas is there with the right price and top quality on
that.

But I'm not going to pay $175 for a LV #4, because I have paid $32 for a
Stanley #4 type 19 in mint-minus condition, cost worth the tuning. $7.99 for another
exact same plane as quite well used, still perfectly good after tuning it. I want to see
Veritas #4 planes in borg and tool stores for a nominal $79 off the shelf, as an extreme
contrast to my previous statement about online, LV-only prices.

My real point is common availability, regular prices that are easy to consider, and a
wide distributership to stores and borgs @ that fine Veritas level of quality and
prescision. Currently, of all things, OSH now stocks Footprint tools! Planes, chisels,
and other tools. Footprint got an awesome break, that's because they made the right
business descision. They are attempting to amortize at a much smaller size than LV-
Veritas. The #5 costs $49.95, reasonable for the tuning work.

If the Lee Valley corp. decides to go bigger with plane production, make some socket
chisels (wink) and "amortize" the entire function, they and all woodworkers would
be better off. Lie-Nielson is coming close because of their actual* distributorship, but
keeping costs pretty much the same, get rich time! Lee Valley is on the perfect verge /
edge of being able to replace Stanley as amortized production for distribution. They
can do it. So sorry to sound like such a block-head, I got me a cranium full of ADHD to
fight through here... no offence intended.

Alex

His ability to run someone else's business affairs from afar and without facts.


You REALLY need to try some gooooooood hot mazto-ball soup! Chucks of
chicken and vegetable, mmmmMMMMmmmm!

Alex