On Mar 9, 5:33 am, wrote:
If you know of employers who hire ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS of ANY
NATIONALITY....write your Mayor, your Governor, your local and State
Representatives, and Senators ...and turn that business in. It's easy
to write a simple letter about the matter, and easy to find the postal
and email addresses on the 'net.
There are Legal Americans able to work those jobs that are NOT getting
a chance to do so. And please, contract with LOCALLY BASED businesses
in your residential area to keep your money spent in YOUR COMMUNITY.

Consider the house-roofing "industry"....After the hurricanes in
Florida in 2004, I needed new roof-shingles. The home was 10 years
old, and I had lost many but luckily did not sustain any further
damage from wind/water. I contracted with a roofer who was working in
my area, meeting with his Caucasian 'sales representative' to make the
deal. (Actually, it wasn't any 'deal": $11,300 for re-shingling a 2600
sq. ft home, but paid for by State Farm Insurance).

On the day that the work started, 12 Hispanic workers showed up, and
only the 'group leader' spoke any English and limited at that. I
didn't see the Caucasian agent again until the work was completed,
inspected, and he came to get the check. I wasn't even THINKING about
illegal immigrants back then, but now I wonder how many of the workers
up on my roff those 2 days may have been ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and how
many of those positions could/should have been filled by local, or at
least LEGAL workers. I found out later that the roofing contractor
was really based in Oklahoma, had only come into the area to do storm-
damage work, and was long gone from the area within the following
year. In hindsight, I SHOULD have contracted with a LOCALLY BASED
roofing contractor to keep the money "at home", rather than having a
good portion of it (I'm sure) sent out of the country. Next time, I
will insist that all workers that show up on MY job-sight show PROOF
OF LEGAL CITIZENSHIP.

NOW I KNOW BETTER NOWand SO DO YOU.

FYI

greg

wrote:
On Mar 9, 5:33 am, wrote:
If you know of employers who hire ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS of ANY
NATIONALITY...
....
NOW I KNOW BETTER NOWand SO DO YOU.

FYI

greg

Why do you see so much hate and fear?

Why is our reaction always negative?

Why don't we remember that this country was founded on the principle of
immigrants being welcome Why can't we remember that nearly all of us here
have ancestors who were immigrants and who would have been illegal under the
current restrictive laws?

Why don't we welcome them and insist that our government eliminate the
hateful fearful barriers?

Why can't people realize that most immigrants are some of the best
people who are looking for a better life and are willing to work for it.

Why have we forgotten the words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty?

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe
free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless,
tempest tossed, to me"

What has happened to this country?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:21:06 -0500, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

wrote:
On Mar 9, 5:33 am, wrote:
If you know of employers who hire ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS of ANY
NATIONALITY...
...
NOW I KNOW BETTER NOWand SO DO YOU.

FYI

greg

Why do you see so much hate and fear?

Why is our reaction always negative?

Why don't we remember that this country was founded on the principle of
immigrants being welcome Why can't we remember that nearly all of us here
have ancestors who were immigrants and who would have been illegal under the
current restrictive laws?

Why don't we welcome them and insist that our government eliminate the
hateful fearful barriers?

Why can't people realize that most immigrants are some of the best
people who are looking for a better life and are willing to work for it.


Have you seen the TV show Cops lately?

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...


Why do you see so much hate and fear?

Why is our reaction always negative?

Why don't we remember that this country was founded on the principle of
immigrants being welcome Why can't we remember that nearly all of us here
have ancestors who were immigrants and who would have been illegal under
the current restrictive laws?

Why don't we welcome them and insist that our government eliminate the
hateful fearful barriers?

Why can't people realize that most immigrants are some of the best
people who are looking for a better life and are willing to work for it.

Why have we forgotten the words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty?

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe
free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless,
tempest tossed, to me"

What has happened to this country?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit



I welcome all legal immigrants. It's the illegals I resent and want
deported. The legals had to jump through hoops, prove their health is
satisfactory and prove that they have no criminal records. They also have to
prove that they won't be a burden on society. The illegals come in with no
such proof. They flood our medical system, education system and prison
system. Look at the prison populations in the western cities.

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
theodoric3@lyc


Joe
You should diversify your news sourcing. You are misinformed to a
spectacular extent.

On Mar 9, 9:40 am, "bill allemann"
wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message

Joe
You should diversify your news sourcing. You are misinformed to a
spectacular extent.

In your opinion.

R

On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:30:36 -0500, "jerryl"
wrote:


"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
.. .


Why do you see so much hate and fear?

Why is our reaction always negative?

Why don't we remember that this country was founded on the principle of
immigrants being welcome Why can't we remember that nearly all of us here
have ancestors who were immigrants and who would have been illegal under
the current restrictive laws?

Why don't we welcome them and insist that our government eliminate the
hateful fearful barriers?

Why can't people realize that most immigrants are some of the best
people who are looking for a better life and are willing to work for it.

Why have we forgotten the words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty?

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe
free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless,
tempest tossed, to me"

What has happened to this country?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit



I welcome all legal immigrants. It's the illegals I resent and want
deported. The legals had to jump through hoops, prove their health is
satisfactory and prove that they have no criminal records. They also have to
prove that they won't be a burden on society. The illegals come in with no
such proof. They flood our medical system, education system and prison
system. Look at the prison populations in the western cities.


That is the way it works at my house. You are welcome coming in the
front door. You get shot trying to come in the back door.

Joseph Meehan wrote:
wrote:
On Mar 9, 5:33 am, wrote:
If you know of employers who hire ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS of ANY
NATIONALITY...
...
NOW I KNOW BETTER NOWand SO DO YOU.
FYI

greg

Why do you see so much hate and fear?

You don't. That's just a smear made up by
pro-illegal-immigration activists who can't think of a
logical reply to those who are opposed to unrestricted
immigration.



Why is our reaction always negative?

Why are you opposed to Americans wanting to exercise
their *right* to control whom they allow into the country?



Why don't we remember that this country was founded on the principle of
immigrants being welcome

Legal immigrants, arriving in numbers Americans get to
control, still are welcome.


Why can't we remember that nearly all of us here
have ancestors who were immigrants and who would have been illegal under the
current restrictive laws?

Laws change. Perceptions change. What we did in the
19th century is not necessarily what we should do
today. Your argument is a logical fallacy: Argumentum
ad Antiquitam, or the appeal to antiquity.



Why don't we welcome them and insist that our government eliminate the
hateful fearful barriers?

See above about the welcome extended to legal
immigrants, whose numbers we lawfully and morally have
a right to control.


Why can't people realize that most immigrants are some of the best
people who are looking for a better life and are willing to work for it.

Irrelevant.



Why have we forgotten the words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty?

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe
free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless,
tempest tossed, to me"

What has happened to this country?

What has happened to it is, it is going down the
******** thanks to benighted moral relativists like you.

On Mar 9, 11:02 am, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:
wrote:
On Mar 9, 5:33 am, wrote:
If you know of employers who hire ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS of ANY
NATIONALITY...
...
NOW I KNOW BETTER NOWand SO DO YOU.
FYI

greg

Why do you see so much hate and fear?

You don't. That's just a smear made up by
pro-illegal-immigration activists who can't think of a
logical reply to those who are opposed to unrestricted
immigration.



Why is our reaction always negative?

Why are you opposed to Americans wanting to exercise
their *right* to control whom they allow into the country?



Why don't we remember that this country was founded on the principle of
immigrants being welcome

Legal immigrants, arriving in numbers Americans get to
control, still are welcome.

Why can't we remember that nearly all of us here
have ancestors who were immigrants and who would have been illegal under the
current restrictive laws?


Now that's a real stretch of the facts and imagination. This assumes
that our ancestors from a couple generations ago would have just come
on over here anyway, in defiance of the law and imigration quotas.
That's the only way they could have beein illegal aliens. For the
most part, that didn't happen. They respected the laws.

There is no question that there are a virtually unlimited number of
people who would come here from many parts of the world if we let
them. The only reason Mexicans are getting away with it is that
they have a convenient border. Following this twisted logic, we next
should start sending empty 747's to every corner of the third world,
because the Mexicans have an unfair advantage and the liberals want
everyone to have an equal opportunity.


There is absolutely nothing wrong or xenophobic about controlling our
borders and only allowing legal immigration. When finally some
terrorist uses the Mexican border to slip across, we'll see what the
liberals say about that. I already know what they'll say. It will
be all Bush's fault.



Laws change. Perceptions change. What we did in the
19th century is not necessarily what we should do
today. Your argument is a logical fallacy: Argumentum
ad Antiquitam, or the appeal to antiquity.



Why don't we welcome them and insist that our government eliminate the
hateful fearful barriers?

See above about the welcome extended to legal
immigrants, whose numbers we lawfully and morally have
a right to control.

Why can't people realize that most immigrants are some of the best
people who are looking for a better life and are willing to work for it.

Irrelevant.

We're talking about illegal immigrants, not "most immigrants"
Assuming that MOST illegal immigrants are OK, how does it follow that
we should just ignore the ones that aren't and let them in too?
Suppose you were a rapist or robber and the policia were looking for
you in Mexico? Knowing any fool can cross the border and disappear
into the US, why wouldn't you too?






Why have we forgotten the words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty?

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe
free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless,
tempest tossed, to me"

What has happened to this country?

What has happened to it is, it is going down the
******** thanks to benighted moral relativists like you.

"Rudy Canoza" wrote in message
nk.net...
Joseph Meehan wrote:
wrote:
On Mar 9, 5:33 am, wrote:
If you know of employers who hire ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS of ANY
NATIONALITY...
...
NOW I KNOW BETTER NOWand SO DO YOU.
FYI

greg

Why do you see so much hate and fear?

You don't. That's just a smear made up by pro-illegal-immigration
activists who can't think of a logical reply to those who are opposed to
unrestricted immigration.



Why is our reaction always negative?

Why are you opposed to Americans wanting to exercise their *right* to
control whom they allow into the country?



Why don't we remember that this country was founded on the principle
of immigrants being welcome

Legal immigrants, arriving in numbers Americans get to control, still are
welcome.


Why can't we remember that nearly all of us here have ancestors who were
immigrants and who would have been illegal under the current restrictive
laws?

Laws change. Perceptions change. What we did in the 19th century is not
necessarily what we should do today. Your argument is a logical fallacy:
Argumentum ad Antiquitam, or the appeal to antiquity.



Why don't we welcome them and insist that our government eliminate
the hateful fearful barriers?

See above about the welcome extended to legal immigrants, whose numbers we
lawfully and morally have a right to control.


Why can't people realize that most immigrants are some of the best
people who are looking for a better life and are willing to work for it.

Irrelevant.



Why have we forgotten the words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty?

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe
free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the
homeless, tempest tossed, to me"

What has happened to this country?

What has happened to it is, it is going down the ******** thanks to
benighted moral relativists like you.


"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here
in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be
treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to
discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or
origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an
American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance
here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an
American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have
room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we
have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American
people."

Theodore Roosevelt

The passages were culled from a letter he wrote to the president of the
American Defense Society on January 3, 1919, three days before Roosevelt
died.

wrote:
On Mar 9, 11:02 am, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:
wrote:
On Mar 9, 5:33 am, wrote:
If you know of employers who hire ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS of ANY
NATIONALITY...
...
NOW I KNOW BETTER NOWand SO DO YOU.
FYI
greg
Why do you see so much hate and fear?
You don't. That's just a smear made up by
pro-illegal-immigration activists who can't think of a
logical reply to those who are opposed to unrestricted
immigration.



Why is our reaction always negative?
Why are you opposed to Americans wanting to exercise
their *right* to control whom they allow into the country?



Why don't we remember that this country was founded on the principle of
immigrants being welcome
Legal immigrants, arriving in numbers Americans get to
control, still are welcome.

Why can't we remember that nearly all of us here
have ancestors who were immigrants and who would have been illegal under the
current restrictive laws?


Now that's a real stretch of the facts and imagination. This assumes
that our ancestors from a couple generations ago would have just come
on over here anyway, in defiance of the law and imigration quotas.
That's the only way they could have beein illegal aliens. For the
most part, that didn't happen. They respected the laws.

I think what the original poster meant is that waves of
immigrants in the past were able to come to the United
States because there were no laws restricting
immigration - at least, not laws they recognized as
legitimate.

Your point is correct: they were not "illegal
immigrants" because they weren't violating any law,
since such a law didn't exist. It's obviously
impossible to say what immigration patterns and numbers
would have been had there been such laws, since we
can't retroactively conduct experiments.



There is no question that there are a virtually unlimited number of
people who would come here from many parts of the world if we let
them. The only reason Mexicans are getting away with it is that
they have a convenient border. Following this twisted logic, we next
should start sending empty 747's to every corner of the third world,
because the Mexicans have an unfair advantage and the liberals want
everyone to have an equal opportunity.


There is absolutely nothing wrong or xenophobic about controlling our
borders and only allowing legal immigration.

Absolutely correct. In fact, it is an abdication of
sovereignty, and fundamentally UN-American and
undemocratic, not to do so.


When finally some
terrorist uses the Mexican border to slip across, we'll see what the
liberals say about that. I already know what they'll say. It will
be all Bush's fault.


Laws change. Perceptions change. What we did in the
19th century is not necessarily what we should do
today. Your argument is a logical fallacy: Argumentum
ad Antiquitam, or the appeal to antiquity.



Why don't we welcome them and insist that our government eliminate the
hateful fearful barriers?
See above about the welcome extended to legal
immigrants, whose numbers we lawfully and morally have
a right to control.

Why can't people realize that most immigrants are some of the best
people who are looking for a better life and are willing to work for it.
Irrelevant.

We're talking about illegal immigrants, not "most immigrants"
Assuming that MOST illegal immigrants are OK, how does it follow that
we should just ignore the ones that aren't and let them in too?
Suppose you were a rapist or robber and the policia were looking for
you in Mexico? Knowing any fool can cross the border and disappear
into the US, why wouldn't you too?





Why have we forgotten the words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe
free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless,
tempest tossed, to me"
What has happened to this country?
What has happened to it is, it is going down the
******** thanks to benighted moral relativists like you.

Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:02:27 GMT, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip


Canoza? That doesn't sound very "American" to me!

Nor does "Morgan" sound so to me. It sounds German,
maybe Welsh. Get out, now.

"Rudy Canoza" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:02:27 GMT, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip


Canoza? That doesn't sound very "American" to me!

Nor does "Morgan" sound so to me. It sounds German, maybe Welsh. Get
out, now.


The only real American names are similar to:
Running Wolf
Geronimo
and the like.

In article nk.net,
Rudy Canoza wrote:


I think what the original poster meant is that waves of
immigrants in the past were able to come to the United
States because there were no laws restricting
immigration - at least, not laws they recognized as
legitimate.

Your point is correct: they were not "illegal
immigrants" because they weren't violating any law,
since such a law didn't exist. It's obviously
impossible to say what immigration patterns and numbers
would have been had there been such laws, since we
can't retroactively conduct experiments.

Of course it did. There have been limits on immigration for most of
the history of the US and quotas since before the Big Migration from
Europe. The Immigration Act of 1891 established an Office of the
Superintendent of Immigration within the Treasury Department. By 1921
the quota system had been established. I mean, what else was Ellis
Island but to process those who came in.

In article ,
"jerryl" wrote:

"Rudy Canoza" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:02:27 GMT, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip


Canoza? That doesn't sound very "American" to me!

Nor does "Morgan" sound so to me. It sounds German, maybe Welsh. Get
out, now.


The only real American names are similar to:
Running Wolf
Geronimo
and the like.

And even they might have been interlopers, coming over the Bering
Straits land bridge and all..

"jerryl" wrote in message
...


"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here
in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall
be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage
to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or
origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet
an American, and nothing but an American...

Overweight, illiterate, addicted to sugar and cable television, unwilling to
harvest food by hand, clean hotel rooms, wash pots and pans in restaurants,
clean toilets in subway stations. That type of American?

I'll tell you what: When this country has a conscription system which
requires able bodied people to work in atrocious jobs for a certain length
of time, I'm all for throwing out all the illegals. But, that won't happen.
Not ever.

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:


Overweight, illiterate, addicted to sugar and cable television, unwilling to
harvest food by hand, clean hotel rooms, wash pots and pans in restaurants,
clean toilets in subway stations. That type of American?

Many of the roofing and carpentry jobs. Landscaping galore, etc.
Americans are not willing to work for those wages that are being
depressed by the influx. You have much extra supply and the demand stays
the same what happens to prices (ie wages).

I'll tell you what: When this country has a conscription system which
requires able bodied people to work in atrocious jobs for a certain length
of time, I'm all for throwing out all the illegals. But, that won't happen.
Not ever.
Hardly a reason to let them come in. If they were tossed out for
being illegal, then three things would happen. Some things wouldn't get
done because at "real" wages (w/o the extra illegals) they just aren't
profitable. In other instances, the wages and to a greater or larger
extent prices would go up. In still other instances alternative ways of
doing things (automation, for instance) would take root and provide jobs
for those making the stuff.
The idea is that we try to do things in an orderly manner
according to quotas or whatever means the Congress decides on.

jerryl wrote:
"Rudy Canoza" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:02:27 GMT, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

snip


Canoza? That doesn't sound very "American" to me!
Nor does "Morgan" sound so to me. It sounds German, maybe Welsh. Get
out, now.


The only real American names are similar to:
Running Wolf
Geronimo
and the like.

An Indian boy asked his father how they got their
names. The father replied, "When your older brother
Soaring Eagle was born, I looked up to the sky to thank
the Great Spirit for giving me a healthy son, and the
first thing I saw was a magnificent eagle soaring
across the sky. Then, when your sister Running Deer
was born, I heard a noise outside the wigwam, and when
I looked out, the first thing I saw was a graceful deer
running away."

"Why do you ask, Two Dogs Humping?"

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article nk.net,
Rudy Canoza wrote:


I think what the original poster meant is that waves of
immigrants in the past were able to come to the United
States because there were no laws restricting
immigration - at least, not laws they recognized as
legitimate.

Your point is correct: they were not "illegal
immigrants" because they weren't violating any law,
since such a law didn't exist. It's obviously
impossible to say what immigration patterns and numbers
would have been had there been such laws, since we
can't retroactively conduct experiments.

Of course it did. There have been limits on immigration for most of
the history of the US

False.

In article nk.net,
Rudy Canoza wrote:

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article nk.net,
Rudy Canoza wrote:


I think what the original poster meant is that waves of
immigrants in the past were able to come to the United
States because there were no laws restricting
immigration - at least, not laws they recognized as
legitimate.

Your point is correct: they were not "illegal
immigrants" because they weren't violating any law,
since such a law didn't exist. It's obviously
impossible to say what immigration patterns and numbers
would have been had there been such laws, since we
can't retroactively conduct experiments.

Of course it did. There have been limits on immigration for most of
the history of the US

False.

True. I put the reasons for my statement down in writing. You
wanna try to at least give me reason why I should change my mind. False
ain't gonna cut it.

On Mar 9, 12:16 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"jerryl" wrote in message

...

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here
in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall
be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage
to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or
origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet
an American, and nothing but an American...

Overweight, illiterate, addicted to sugar and cable television, unwilling to
harvest food by hand, clean hotel rooms, wash pots and pans in restaurants,
clean toilets in subway stations. That type of American?

I'll tell you what: When this country has a conscription system which
requires able bodied people to work in atrocious jobs for a certain length
of time, I'm all for throwing out all the illegals. But, that won't happen.
Not ever.

Now this is totally bizarre. Are you actually suggesting instituting
forced labor? And what in the world does that have to do with
illegal imigration? Bush proposed a guest worker program, to allow
aliens to come here to work for limited periods, four years ago.
That would help control illegal immigration and at the same time allow
workers to come here. Congress and especially the liberals, ****ed
all over it.

Reminds me of two whacko liberals I met in Fl on vacation about 4
winters ago. They were partners in a restaurant. They hated
everything about President Bush. They were bitching about how bad
the economy was and made the comment that the only good thing about it
was that now they could get English speaking help for the kitchen.
So, to see if there was anything about Bush they could find
acceptable, later on I asked what they thought of Bush's proposed
guest worker proposal. Their answer "That's exploitation!" I'm
like, WHAT? All he wants to do is make it a legal for aliens to
work here. You're the guys that are already employing them! If
there's any exploitation going on, you guys are the ones doing it.
What morons.

jerryl wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...

...

I welcome all legal immigrants. It's the illegals I resent and want
deported. The legals had to jump through hoops, prove their health is
satisfactory and prove that they have no criminal records. They also
have to prove that they won't be a burden on society. The illegals
come in with no such proof. They flood our medical system, education
system and prison system. Look at the prison populations in the
western cities.

I don't know about your ancestors, but I doubt if mine could have made
it though all those hopes today. In fact I doubt if I could if I did not
already have US citizenship. Not only hoops, but limits on the numbers are
used to keep them out.

As for flooding our medical, educational and prison systems, I assure
you that if you removed all non US borns from those institutions, there
would still be a flood.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Terry wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:30:36 -0500, "jerryl"
wrote:


"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...


Why do you see so much hate and fear?

Why is our reaction always negative?

Why don't we remember that this country was founded on the
principle of immigrants being welcome Why can't we remember that
nearly all of us here have ancestors who were immigrants and who
would have been illegal under the current restrictive laws?

Why don't we welcome them and insist that our government
eliminate the hateful fearful barriers?

Why can't people realize that most immigrants are some of the
best people who are looking for a better life and are willing to
work for it.

Why have we forgotten the words inscribed on the Statue of
Liberty?

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send
these, the homeless, tempest tossed, to me"

What has happened to this country?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit



I welcome all legal immigrants. It's the illegals I resent and want
deported. The legals had to jump through hoops, prove their health is
satisfactory and prove that they have no criminal records. They also
have to prove that they won't be a burden on society. The illegals
come in with no such proof. They flood our medical system, education
system and prison system. Look at the prison populations in the
western cities.


That is the way it works at my house. You are welcome coming in the
front door. You get shot trying to come in the back door.

But do you set arbitrary limits on the front door? Do you have a sign
posted on your lawn saying "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled
masses, yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest tossed, to me"


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

bill allemann wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
theodoric3@lyc


Joe
You should diversify your news sourcing. You are misinformed to a
spectacular extent.

Would you like to challenge any of the specific statements I made and
back that up with real information?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:


Overweight, illiterate, addicted to sugar and cable television, unwilling
to
harvest food by hand, clean hotel rooms, wash pots and pans in
restaurants,
clean toilets in subway stations. That type of American?

Many of the roofing and carpentry jobs. Landscaping galore, etc.
Americans are not willing to work for those wages that are being
depressed by the influx. You have much extra supply and the demand stays
the same what happens to prices (ie wages).

I'll tell you what: When this country has a conscription system which
requires able bodied people to work in atrocious jobs for a certain
length
of time, I'm all for throwing out all the illegals. But, that won't
happen.
Not ever.

Hardly a reason to let them come in. If they were tossed out for
being illegal, then three things would happen. Some things wouldn't get
done because at "real" wages (w/o the extra illegals) they just aren't
profitable.

Conscripted people will work for minimum wage. No need to see jobs vanish
and things not get done.


In other instances, the wages and to a greater or larger
extent prices would go up.

Not if legal replacement workers receive the same wages as illegals.


In still other instances alternative ways of
doing things (automation, for instance) would take root and provide jobs
for those making the stuff.

I've already been through this last part of the discussion, many time, even
to the point where my curiosity made me call 3 farm equipment manufacturers
a couple of years ago. Unanimous responses: "Believe me - if we could figure
out a way to harvest certain crops by machine, we'd build that machine in a
heartbeat".

For some crops, human hands are the only option for now.

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article nk.net,
Rudy Canoza wrote:

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article nk.net,
Rudy Canoza wrote:


I think what the original poster meant is that waves of
immigrants in the past were able to come to the United
States because there were no laws restricting
immigration - at least, not laws they recognized as
legitimate.

Your point is correct: they were not "illegal
immigrants" because they weren't violating any law,
since such a law didn't exist. It's obviously
impossible to say what immigration patterns and numbers
would have been had there been such laws, since we
can't retroactively conduct experiments.

Of course it did. There have been limits on immigration for most of
the history of the US
False.

True.

No, it's false.


I put the reasons for my statement

Your ahistorical bull****.

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 9, 12:16 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"jerryl" wrote in message

...

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes
here
in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he
shall
be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an
outrage
to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace,
or
origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every
facet
an American, and nothing but an American...

Overweight, illiterate, addicted to sugar and cable television, unwilling
to
harvest food by hand, clean hotel rooms, wash pots and pans in
restaurants,
clean toilets in subway stations. That type of American?

I'll tell you what: When this country has a conscription system which
requires able bodied people to work in atrocious jobs for a certain
length
of time, I'm all for throwing out all the illegals. But, that won't
happen.
Not ever.

Now this is totally bizarre. Are you actually suggesting instituting
forced labor? And what in the world does that have to do with
illegal imigration? Bush proposed a guest worker program, to allow
aliens to come here to work for limited periods, four years ago.
That would help control illegal immigration and at the same time allow
workers to come here. Congress and especially the liberals, ****ed
all over it.


Why bother with immigrant labor at all? Make this type of work a legal
requirement for young Americans, like the military service requirements in
some countries, and pay them the same as the illegals. What does a private
in the U.S. Army make in a month? If you pretend he/she has an 8 hour work
day (untrue, but pretend), does the pay fall short of minimum wage?

jerryl wrote:
....

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes
here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us,
he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it
is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed,
or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's
becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an
American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says
he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all.
We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for
but one language here, and that is the English language... and we
have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the
American people."
Theodore Roosevelt

The passages were culled from a letter he wrote to the president of
the American Defense Society on January 3, 1919, three days before
Roosevelt died.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we
are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and
servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

Theodore Roosevelt, 1918

I reserve my right to disagree.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Joseph Meehan wrote:
jerryl wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...

..
I welcome all legal immigrants. It's the illegals I resent and want
deported. The legals had to jump through hoops, prove their health is
satisfactory and prove that they have no criminal records. They also
have to prove that they won't be a burden on society. The illegals
come in with no such proof. They flood our medical system, education
system and prison system. Look at the prison populations in the
western cities.

I don't know about your ancestors, but I doubt if mine could have made
it though all those hopes today.

*What* "hoops"? The presence of some 20 million
illegally resident aliens demonstrates that the amount
of effort to come here, whether the legal residents and
citizens wish to allow it or not, is pretty small.


In fact I doubt if I could if I did not
already have US citizenship. Not only hoops, but limits on the numbers are
used to keep them out.

The limits are clearly not binding.


As for flooding our medical, educational and prison systems, I assure
you that if you removed all non US borns from those institutions, there
would still be a flood.

Not the point. That's no reason to make the flood worse.

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Terry wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:30:36 -0500, "jerryl"
wrote:

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...

Why do you see so much hate and fear?

Why is our reaction always negative?

Why don't we remember that this country was founded on the
principle of immigrants being welcome Why can't we remember that
nearly all of us here have ancestors who were immigrants and who
would have been illegal under the current restrictive laws?

Why don't we welcome them and insist that our government
eliminate the hateful fearful barriers?

Why can't people realize that most immigrants are some of the
best people who are looking for a better life and are willing to
work for it.

Why have we forgotten the words inscribed on the Statue of
Liberty?

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send
these, the homeless, tempest tossed, to me"

What has happened to this country?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit



I welcome all legal immigrants. It's the illegals I resent and want
deported. The legals had to jump through hoops, prove their health is
satisfactory and prove that they have no criminal records. They also
have to prove that they won't be a burden on society. The illegals
come in with no such proof. They flood our medical system, education
system and prison system. Look at the prison populations in the
western cities.

That is the way it works at my house. You are welcome coming in the
front door. You get shot trying to come in the back door.

But do you set arbitrary limits on the front door?

Of course! Who doesn't?


Do you have a sign
posted on your lawn saying "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled
masses, yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest tossed, to me"

No, and neither does the U.S. That's a nice, quaint
little poem, but it is not national immigration law -
nor should it be. We do not, and should not, simply
abolish immigration law.

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
jerryl wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...

..

I welcome all legal immigrants. It's the illegals I resent and want
deported. The legals had to jump through hoops, prove their health is
satisfactory and prove that they have no criminal records. They also
have to prove that they won't be a burden on society. The illegals
come in with no such proof. They flood our medical system, education
system and prison system. Look at the prison populations in the
western cities.

I don't know about your ancestors, but I doubt if mine could have made
it though all those hopes today. In fact I doubt if I could if I did not
already have US citizenship. Not only hoops, but limits on the numbers are
used to keep them out.

As for flooding our medical, educational and prison systems, I assure
you that if you removed all non US borns from those institutions, there
would still be a flood.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit




Well, my ancestors came over in the late 1800's and early 1900's and had to
jump through all of those hoops before they were allowed in. They had to
have someone here sponsor them. They had to have a place to live and a job,
BEFORE THEY WERE ALLOWED IN. They were not allowed to go on any welfare or
relief systems. If they couldn't support themselves then their sponsors had
to.
If my ancestors had to do it, along with all the millions of tired and poor
that were accepted to this country, then there's no reason for the illegals
to be allowed to remain here.
You are a contractor. Do you hire illegals to work for you?

Joseph Meehan wrote:
bill allemann wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
theodoric3@lyc

Joe
You should diversify your news sourcing. You are misinformed to a
spectacular extent.

Would you like to challenge any of the specific statements I made

What "specific statements"? You posed a set of
sophomoric and loaded questions that, taken together,
indicate you think there should be no limit on
immigration; no rules at all. Your sophomoric and
loaded questions indicate an astonishingly naive
misunderstanding.

"jerryl" wrote in message
news:MnhIh.5146$B7.3412@bigfe9...


Well, my ancestors came over in the late 1800's and early 1900's and had
to jump through all of those hoops before they were allowed in. They had
to have someone here sponsor them. They had to have a place to live and a
job, BEFORE THEY WERE ALLOWED IN. They were not allowed to go on any
welfare or relief systems. If they couldn't support themselves then their
sponsors had to.


Luckily, nothing about the U.S. or Mexico has changed at all since the late
1800s, so it should be simple to apply identical solutions.

Right?

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
But do you set arbitrary limits on the front door? Do you have a sign
posted on your lawn saying "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled
masses, yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming
shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest tossed, to me"


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit




Just because the sign is there doesn't mean they don't have to follow the
laws. Under your interpretation if I see a sign "Highway", I'd be allowed to
drive on it even if I didn't have a license. We are a nation of laws and if
you want to live here you have to obey those laws. We have immigration laws
and if immigrants bypass them, they are illegal.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we
are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and
servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

Theodore Roosevelt, 1918

I reserve my right to disagree.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit



Now just what does that have to do with illegal aliens?

"jerryl" wrote in message
news:uthIh.5149$B7.4784@bigfe9...


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we
are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic
and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

Theodore Roosevelt, 1918

I reserve my right to disagree.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit



Now just what does that have to do with illegal aliens?


Nothing. But, worth remembering next time some putz tells you that we can't
disagree with the president because we have soldiers in Iraq.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"jerryl" wrote in message
news:MnhIh.5146$B7.3412@bigfe9...

Well, my ancestors came over in the late 1800's and early 1900's and had
to jump through all of those hoops before they were allowed in. They had
to have someone here sponsor them. They had to have a place to live and a
job, BEFORE THEY WERE ALLOWED IN. They were not allowed to go on any
welfare or relief systems. If they couldn't support themselves then their
sponsors had to.


Luckily, nothing about the U.S. or Mexico has changed at all since the late
1800s, so it should be simple to apply identical solutions.

If anything, what has changed ought to make us *more*
restrictive than in the past, not less.

jerryl wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
But do you set arbitrary limits on the front door? Do you have a sign
posted on your lawn saying "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled
masses, yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming
shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest tossed, to me"


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit




Just because the sign is there doesn't mean they don't have to follow the
laws. Under your interpretation if I see a sign "Highway", I'd be allowed to
drive on it even if I didn't have a license.

....at any speed, in any direction, using any vehicle
you wished.


We are a nation of laws and if
you want to live here you have to obey those laws. We have immigration laws
and if immigrants bypass them, they are illegal.

The immigrants aren't illegal; their residency is.

"Rudy Canoza" wrote in message
nk.net...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"jerryl" wrote in message
news:MnhIh.5146$B7.3412@bigfe9...

Well, my ancestors came over in the late 1800's and early 1900's and had
to jump through all of those hoops before they were allowed in. They had
to have someone here sponsor them. They had to have a place to live and
a job, BEFORE THEY WERE ALLOWED IN. They were not allowed to go on any
welfare or relief systems. If they couldn't support themselves then
their sponsors had to.


Luckily, nothing about the U.S. or Mexico has changed at all since the
late 1800s, so it should be simple to apply identical solutions.

If anything, what has changed ought to make us *more* restrictive than in
the past, not less.


What about our population and the resulting demand for services? I'm not
justifying the situation, just suggesting reasons.

What about overpopulation and a twisted government in a neighboring country?

jerryl wrote:
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we
are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and
servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

Theodore Roosevelt, 1918

I reserve my right to disagree.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit



Now just what does that have to do with illegal aliens?

Nothing. It just gives joey a false sense of bravado
and virtue to pretend he's standing up to authority.