"Steve Scott" wrote in message
...
Measure the temp of the air going into the return grilles and the
return air temp at the furnace. There's often a big difference there
too.

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 16:13:16 GMT, "FDR"
wrote:


"Steve Scott" wrote in message
. ..
California has estimated the average residential duct loss there to be
in the 30% range. Based on what we see in NY that seems reasonable to
me.

Sounds about right. In the winter in NY here the one side of the house
nearest the furnace blows out 120F while the other end of the house blows
out 90F.


--
Never mind the facts - I know what I know

The problem too is that the house is cold on one end and warm on the other
in the winter. The easiest thing seems to be adding a electric heater to
help a bit.

Snip the Bull****.

So What I think is your just another computor Geek wanting to be somebody.
Knock your self out.

So wrong.
Just ****ed off that your system isnt this fast or nice.
Did you ever figure out how hyperthreading works?


This is Turtle.

You say I'm ****ed off because my computor is not fast and nice. WOW, You got me
to thinking here and I will call my computor man and ask him if i'm fast enough.
He said I had a 1.1 Ghz ram , 120 Ghz memory, 256 hz game or sound card, and to
leave it alone for you good enough. So that solved that.

Well your question here , Did you ever figure out how hyperthreading works? No
, but Did you ever figure out yet that i don't give a Rates Ass what you think !
If you do , let me know.

TURTLE

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
...

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor, vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a 3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply removes
the
unit.

Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com )

This is Turtle.

Earth to Trailor house Paul. i see you did not know about Theif 101 on the
street. All you do to break in a place with window shackers is to take crow
bar and lift the window slide up about 1 or 2 inches and then let the window
unit fall out the window and hit the ground. Then watch the cord still being
plugged in but just stand on the window shacker to climb in the wide open
window where the window unit use to be.

So you are saying that those times you DO install a window unit, you dont
secure it properly??

Amazing..


This is Turtle.

i know your just tring to defend your Buddy Paul the Soft ware salesman , but
this does tell me that you have not worked on window units for you would know
better to defend him when he messes up like this.

how Many sheet metal screw can you put in a plastic case of the window shacker
to hold back a 4 foot craw bar to pop them out with one pry?

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ , Wrong again.

TURTLE

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
.. .

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor,
vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a
3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply
removes the
unit.

Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com )

This is Turtle.

Earth to Trailor house Paul. i see you did not know about Theif 101 on
the street. All you do to break in a place with window shackers is to
take crow bar and lift the window slide up about 1 or 2 inches and then
let the window unit fall out the window and hit the ground. Then watch
the cord still being plugged in but just stand on the window shacker to
climb in the wide open window where the window unit use to be.

So you are saying that those times you DO install a window unit, you dont
secure it properly??

Amazing..


This is Turtle.

i know your just tring to defend your Buddy Paul the Soft ware salesman ,
but this does tell me that you have not worked on window units for you
would know better to defend him when he messes up like this.

how Many sheet metal screw can you put in a plastic case of the window
shacker to hold back a 4 foot craw bar to pop them out with one pry?

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ , Wrong again.

TURTLE

BZZZT...wrong again Terry.

Remember the post a week ago about the cafe that could not have a central
air system installed due to the landlord?
They got two new window units, and I dare you to either get the window open,
OR just as you say....one pry and they are out.
Nope..not happening.
I suppose you dont install the support legs, or take the time to fil in the
casement, or anything that resembles anything other than throw it in, and
run, after of course, raping the customer.
Now..Im not even gonna tell you about how some of us, insure that the units
DONT come back out is someone with ill intentions wants in..

Plastic CASE?? What kind of **** are you installing in these cases TErry? I
mean for GOD SAKE, even the cheap Wally World units come with a nice metal
case.

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...
Snip the Bull****.

So What I think is your just another computor Geek wanting to be
somebody. Knock your self out.

So wrong.
Just ****ed off that your system isnt this fast or nice.
Did you ever figure out how hyperthreading works?


This is Turtle.

You say I'm ****ed off because my computor is not fast and nice. WOW, You
got me to thinking here and I will call my computor man and ask him if i'm
fast enough. He said I had a 1.1 Ghz ram , 120 Ghz memory, 256 hz game or
sound card, and to leave it alone for you good enough. So that solved
that.

For YOU, a 286 with 512k is good enough....


Well your question here , Did you ever figure out how hyperthreading
works? No , but Did you ever figure out yet that i don't give a Rates Ass
what you think ! If you do , let me know.

Godalmighty..it must..you stalk me around here like you love me.


TURTLE

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...
Snip the Bull****.

So What I think is your just another computor Geek wanting to be somebody.
Knock your self out.

So wrong.
Just ****ed off that your system isnt this fast or nice.
Did you ever figure out how hyperthreading works?


This is Turtle.

You say I'm ****ed off because my computor is not fast and nice. WOW, You got
me to thinking here and I will call my computor man and ask him if i'm fast
enough. He said I had a 1.1 Ghz ram , 120 Ghz memory, 256 hz game or sound
card, and to leave it alone for you good enough. So that solved that.

For YOU, a 286 with 512k is good enough....


Well your question here , Did you ever figure out how hyperthreading works?
No , but Did you ever figure out yet that i don't give a Rates Ass what you
think ! If you do , let me know.

Godalmighty..it must..you stalk me around here like you love me.


This is Turtle.

My first compooter was a [ i think ] was a 286 something / 1 Mgk memory / [ 33
hz or mhz. not sure. ] . Now that was a fast motor scooter ! I had bought this
one as they just come out with it at the Compooter place.

Stalking you . LOL LOL LOL , Son you ain't got a lick of sence if you think I'm
stalking you. I'm just following you around and when you have something hateful,
distasteful, or stupid things to say about me. i fire on your stupid ass. I have
told you all alone if you stop speaking disrespectful words at me. I will do the
same. No but you keep it up and expect me to not fire on you ever **** time you
speak.

Now all you do is say Lest stop it and you stop it and I will stop it. I will
say OK and it is all over with. Here is the deal but if you don't expect me to
be on your ass everytime you speak disrespectful with my name in your thoughts
or words. you are water headed to think so.

Take a choice but choose Wisely.

TURTLE

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
. ..

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor, vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a
3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply removes
the
unit.

Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com )

This is Turtle.

Earth to Trailor house Paul. i see you did not know about Theif 101 on the
street. All you do to break in a place with window shackers is to take crow
bar and lift the window slide up about 1 or 2 inches and then let the
window unit fall out the window and hit the ground. Then watch the cord
still being plugged in but just stand on the window shacker to climb in the
wide open window where the window unit use to be.

So you are saying that those times you DO install a window unit, you dont
secure it properly??

Amazing..


This is Turtle.

i know your just tring to defend your Buddy Paul the Soft ware salesman , but
this does tell me that you have not worked on window units for you would know
better to defend him when he messes up like this.

how Many sheet metal screw can you put in a plastic case of the window
shacker to hold back a 4 foot craw bar to pop them out with one pry?

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ , Wrong again.

TURTLE

BZZZT...wrong again Terry.

Remember the post a week ago about the cafe that could not have a central air
system installed due to the landlord?
They got two new window units, and I dare you to either get the window open,
OR just as you say....one pry and they are out.
Nope..not happening.
I suppose you dont install the support legs, or take the time to fil in the
casement, or anything that resembles anything other than throw it in, and run,
after of course, raping the customer.
Now..Im not even gonna tell you about how some of us, insure that the units
DONT come back out is someone with ill intentions wants in..

Plastic CASE?? What kind of **** are you installing in these cases TErry? I
mean for GOD SAKE, even the cheap Wally World units come with a nice metal
case.


This is Turtle.

WRONG !!!!!

You must have live a sheiltered life to think that a theif can't pop a window
unit out a window in just a second or two. A window unit can be pop out just
about as fast as a key slot on a steering collium on a car.

Here is another one for you. The thiefs now a days can remove a condenser unit
from a yard and be driving off in 16 seconds. They take a wide bladed ax and cut
the freon, 24 volt, and 220 volt line all in one hit and then throw the
condenser in the back of a bed of a truck and drive off. These same fellow can
take that window shacker out that window with a 4 foot craw bar faster than a
cat can lick his ass. Oh Yea, Your unit support legs on the bottom are caved in
with two hits one each to each support with the crow bar. Most will come out the
window by doing this alone.

Son you sure haven't been on the street have you. The Lock on something is only
to tell the honest people to say out and to the theifs it says where to go to
get something to steal. The average lock is nothing to a thief now a days but a
sign to tell them where there is something to steal.

TURTLE

"Steve Scott" wrote in message
...
Assuming the furnace is properly sized sealing and balancing the
system will do wonders.

Well, unfortunately, the previous owners sheetrocked the lower level ceiling
so there's no access to the duct flow controls for the upper level vents.


On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:05:57 GMT, "FDR"
wrote:


"Steve Scott" wrote in message
. ..
Measure the temp of the air going into the return grilles and the
return air temp at the furnace. There's often a big difference there
too.

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 16:13:16 GMT, "FDR"
wrote:


"Steve Scott" wrote in message
m...
California has estimated the average residential duct loss there to be
in the 30% range. Based on what we see in NY that seems reasonable to
me.

Sounds about right. In the winter in NY here the one side of the house
nearest the furnace blows out 120F while the other end of the house
blows
out 90F.


--
Never mind the facts - I know what I know

The problem too is that the house is cold on one end and warm on the other
in the winter. The easiest thing seems to be adding a electric heater to
help a bit.





--
Never mind the facts - I know what I know

Before I put an electric heater in, I would put an unvented natural/propane
gas heater in the coldest spot. (unless you have small rooms and closed
doors)
I have one in the kitchen/living room area and we use it when it is too warm
to start a fire in the woodstove.
Just make sure you put a Carbon monoxide detector in the room.
--
Joe

The problem too is that the house is cold on one end and warm on the other
in the winter. The easiest thing seems to be adding a electric heater to
help a bit.

Fire axe, and sawzall does wonders.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"FDR" wrote in message
...

"Steve Scott" wrote in message
...
Assuming the furnace is properly sized sealing and balancing the
system will do wonders.

Well, unfortunately, the previous owners sheetrocked the lower level ceiling
so there's no access to the duct flow controls for the upper level vents.

Well, unfortunately, the previous owners sheetrocked the lower level ceiling
so there's no access to the duct flow controls for the upper level vents.
************************************************** **********************************
You can accomplish the same thing by covering part of the outflow vents in
the hotest/coldest rooms.
Use tape to partially cover the vents while you are experimenting and when
you get the correct flow to the entire house, you can put a piece of tin
behind the vents, the same size as the tape.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)

"Joe" wrote in message
...
Before I put an electric heater in, I would put an unvented
natural/propane gas heater in the coldest spot. (unless you have small
rooms and closed doors)

Are you talking about those in-wall types?


I have one in the kitchen/living room area and we use it when it is too
warm to start a fire in the woodstove.
Just make sure you put a Carbon monoxide detector in the room.
--
Joe

The problem too is that the house is cold on one end and warm on the other
in the winter. The easiest thing seems to be adding a electric heater to
help a bit.

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
.. .

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean
labor, vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo),
a 3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply
removes the
unit.

Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com )

This is Turtle.

Earth to Trailor house Paul. i see you did not know about Theif 101 on
the street. All you do to break in a place with window shackers is to
take crow bar and lift the window slide up about 1 or 2 inches and
then let the window unit fall out the window and hit the ground. Then
watch the cord still being plugged in but just stand on the window
shacker to climb in the wide open window where the window unit use to
be.

So you are saying that those times you DO install a window unit, you
dont secure it properly??

Amazing..


This is Turtle.

i know your just tring to defend your Buddy Paul the Soft ware salesman
, but this does tell me that you have not worked on window units for you
would know better to defend him when he messes up like this.

how Many sheet metal screw can you put in a plastic case of the window
shacker to hold back a 4 foot craw bar to pop them out with one pry?

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ , Wrong again.

TURTLE

BZZZT...wrong again Terry.

Remember the post a week ago about the cafe that could not have a central
air system installed due to the landlord?
They got two new window units, and I dare you to either get the window
open, OR just as you say....one pry and they are out.
Nope..not happening.
I suppose you dont install the support legs, or take the time to fil in
the casement, or anything that resembles anything other than throw it in,
and run, after of course, raping the customer.
Now..Im not even gonna tell you about how some of us, insure that the
units DONT come back out is someone with ill intentions wants in..

Plastic CASE?? What kind of **** are you installing in these cases TErry?
I mean for GOD SAKE, even the cheap Wally World units come with a nice
metal case.


This is Turtle.

WRONG !!!!!

You must have live a sheiltered life to think that a theif can't pop a
window unit out a window in just a second or two. A window unit can be pop
out just about as fast as a key slot on a steering collium on a car.

Here is another one for you. The thiefs now a days can remove a condenser
unit from a yard and be driving off in 16 seconds. They take a wide bladed
ax and cut the freon, 24 volt, and 220 volt line all in one hit and then
throw the condenser in the back of a bed of a truck and drive off. These
same fellow can take that window shacker out that window with a 4 foot
craw bar faster than a cat can lick his ass. Oh Yea, Your unit support
legs on the bottom are caved in with two hits one each to each support
with the crow bar. Most will come out the window by doing this alone.

Son you sure haven't been on the street have you. The Lock on something is
only to tell the honest people to say out and to the theifs it says where
to go to get something to steal. The average lock is nothing to a thief
now a days but a sign to tell them where there is something to steal.

TURTLE

I fasten the A/C case to the window sill and casement with screws, and also
screw the top of the case to the bottom of the lower window. Then, for
extra security, I run a couple of drywall screws through the wood frame of
both windows above the air conditioner. Ain't no theif gonna get through my
setup.

Are you talking about those in-wall types?
************************************************** *************
I have a free standing one that looks like a glass doored woodstove.
It has ceramic logs inside, like a gas fireplace.
They also have ones that mount to the wall.
Type...........unvented gas heaters.........into Google and click "Images".

--
JerryD(upstateNY)

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
.. .

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean
labor, vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo),
a 3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply
removes the
unit.

Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com )

This is Turtle.

Earth to Trailor house Paul. i see you did not know about Theif 101 on
the street. All you do to break in a place with window shackers is to
take crow bar and lift the window slide up about 1 or 2 inches and
then let the window unit fall out the window and hit the ground. Then
watch the cord still being plugged in but just stand on the window
shacker to climb in the wide open window where the window unit use to
be.

So you are saying that those times you DO install a window unit, you
dont secure it properly??

Amazing..


This is Turtle.

i know your just tring to defend your Buddy Paul the Soft ware salesman
, but this does tell me that you have not worked on window units for you
would know better to defend him when he messes up like this.

how Many sheet metal screw can you put in a plastic case of the window
shacker to hold back a 4 foot craw bar to pop them out with one pry?

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ , Wrong again.

TURTLE

BZZZT...wrong again Terry.

Remember the post a week ago about the cafe that could not have a central
air system installed due to the landlord?
They got two new window units, and I dare you to either get the window
open, OR just as you say....one pry and they are out.
Nope..not happening.
I suppose you dont install the support legs, or take the time to fil in
the casement, or anything that resembles anything other than throw it in,
and run, after of course, raping the customer.
Now..Im not even gonna tell you about how some of us, insure that the
units DONT come back out is someone with ill intentions wants in..

Plastic CASE?? What kind of **** are you installing in these cases TErry?
I mean for GOD SAKE, even the cheap Wally World units come with a nice
metal case.


This is Turtle.

WRONG !!!!!


Bet me your business I cant install a window unit that your theif buddy cant
get out...period..on teh ground...
Bet me Terry, cause you will loose.

You must have live a sheiltered life to think that a theif can't pop a
window unit out a window in just a second or two. A window unit can be pop
out just about as fast as a key slot on a steering collium on a car.

Not after we install one....bet me Terry....
Hell, bet me half of what you ****ed the Judge out of.


Here is another one for you. The thiefs now a days can remove a condenser
unit from a yard and be driving off in 16 seconds. They take a wide bladed
ax and cut the freon, 24 volt, and 220 volt line all in one hit and then
throw the condenser in the back of a bed of a truck and drive off. These
same fellow can take that window shacker out that window with a 4 foot
craw bar faster than a cat can lick his ass. Oh Yea, Your unit support
legs on the bottom are caved in with two hits one each to each support
with the crow bar. Most will come out the window by doing this alone.

yawn..you just now figuring this out boy?
The guys in Los Angeles and the Inland Empire been doing that for years.


Son you sure haven't been on the street have you. The Lock on something is
only to tell the honest people to say out and to the theifs it says where
to go to get something to steal. The average lock is nothing to a thief
now a days but a sign to tell them where there is something to steal.

If you only had half a clue...
You might be funny..but damn, do I ever feel sad now for you.
Sigh...
Well..cant save the world...

TURTLE

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 09:57:21 -0500, "TURTLE"
wrote:

I will call my computor man and ask him if i'm fast enough.
He said I had a 1.1 Ghz ram , 120 Ghz memory, 256 hz game or sound
card, and to leave it alone for you good enough. So that solved
that.

Wow, this is a keeper!
I wish my memory was that fast!

Of course, you *probably* mean:
He said I had a 1.1 GB ram , 120 GB Hard Drive, 256 MB video card.
Or did he mean: 1.1Ghz CPU and 128 MB ram? Har, har...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 7.1

iQA/AwUBQvgvggIk7T39FC4ZEQJphwCfR4gw/HohcvtMn8bdYwcMnfyWR1oAoJXz
ZyHv5BtRYHdggGZ0PJSwZg2q
=YHKM
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 23:11:33 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 09:57:21 -0500, "TURTLE"
wrote:

I will call my computor man and ask him if i'm fast enough.
He said I had a 1.1 Ghz ram , 120 Ghz memory, 256 hz game or sound
card, and to leave it alone for you good enough. So that solved
that.

Wow, this is a keeper!
I wish my memory was that fast!

That one's actually scary :-)


Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in
message
...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"JTMcC" wrote in message
news

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...



Now a question? What do you think happens to an all
steel
ship, with frozen storage holds 6 decks deep, below the
water level, with only the outside of envelope of the
holds
insulated, not the steel plates between the
holds...those
welded solid of course across the hull.

Thats exciting.


Phil Scott



No it's not. What thrills you about modern steels used at
low temperatures? It's an everyday occurance. Don't be so
afraid.

You didnt answer the question. I do. I met the design
builder in Honolulu two months later.

So tell me what happened in this case. It was in alaska
approx 1981. Smart remarks dont count, just an outcome
and
what would cause that outcome. Many people I talk to in
this
business know instantly what will happen in a case like
that.


With a change of 100 deg F, thermal expansion / contraction
of mild steel is
appx 3/4in per 100 ft. of length.

In your case above it is concievable that the inner welds
could have failed
given it was a fairly large ship, and provided the
temperature change
occured rapidly enough that heat heat wasnt transferred
quickly enough so as
to equally soak all of the structural members.

In real life, this would be pretty damned difficult to
accomplish, at
best--100 deg is a fairly large delta.


As the refrigeration systems were started up, 3ea 600 ton
ammonia screw machines, the holds reached minus 20F... the
bankers and other other investors were gathered on deck
drinking champagne and eathing sushi... a noise some
described as a howitzer being fired occurred, and the ship
shook violently as the high rollers fled for the gang plank
and watched the ship break in half and sink in a matter of
minutes, all that was sticking out of the water was an antenna
mast


I met the guy who designed and built the refrigeration on the
ship in Honollulu about 6 months later. (getting ready be the
chief engineer on one of Haddon Salts lobster boats ..H Salt
Esquire fish and chips magnate... I met him in Honolulu as
well and refrigerated one of his boats, a 160' lobster
boat...a single stage R502 blast freeze system fit into one
of the boats holds.)




Phil Scott





--

SVL

Phil Scott wrote:

Now a question? What do you think happens to an all
steel ship, with frozen storage holds 6 decks deep, below the
water level, with only the outside of envelope of the
holds insulated, not the steel plates between the
holds...those welded solid of course across the hull...

I'm having trouble picturing this.

As the refrigeration systems were started up, 3ea 600 ton
ammonia screw machines, the holds reached minus 20F... the
bankers and other other investors were gathered on deck
drinking champagne and eating sushi... a noise some
described as a howitzer being fired occurred, and the ship
shook violently as the high rollers fled for the gang plank
and watched the ship break in half and sink...

Interesting... Would you describe what happened more exactly?

Odd they didn't try this before the bankers showed up... :-)

Nick

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
. ..

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor,
vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a
3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply
removes the
unit.

Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com )

This is Turtle.

Earth to Trailor house Paul. i see you did not know about Theif 101 on
the street. All you do to break in a place with window shackers is to
take crow bar and lift the window slide up about 1 or 2 inches and then
let the window unit fall out the window and hit the ground. Then watch
the cord still being plugged in but just stand on the window shacker to
climb in the wide open window where the window unit use to be.

So you are saying that those times you DO install a window unit, you dont
secure it properly??

Amazing..


This is Turtle.

i know your just tring to defend your Buddy Paul the Soft ware salesman ,
but this does tell me that you have not worked on window units for you
would know better to defend him when he messes up like this.

how Many sheet metal screw can you put in a plastic case of the window
shacker to hold back a 4 foot craw bar to pop them out with one pry?

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ , Wrong again.

TURTLE

BZZZT...wrong again Terry.

Remember the post a week ago about the cafe that could not have a central
air system installed due to the landlord?
They got two new window units, and I dare you to either get the window open,
OR just as you say....one pry and they are out.
Nope..not happening.
I suppose you dont install the support legs, or take the time to fil in the
casement, or anything that resembles anything other than throw it in, and
run, after of course, raping the customer.
Now..Im not even gonna tell you about how some of us, insure that the units
DONT come back out is someone with ill intentions wants in..

Plastic CASE?? What kind of **** are you installing in these cases TErry? I
mean for GOD SAKE, even the cheap Wally World units come with a nice metal
case.


This is Turtle.

WRONG !!!!!


Bet me your business I cant install a window unit that your theif buddy cant
get out...period..on teh ground...
Bet me Terry, cause you will loose.


This is Turtle

earth to Stevey the Window wonder !

We are not talking about the ones you install for a bet but let us drive down
the city street and just stop at the first window unit we see sticking out a
window and turn a pro theif loose on it to see if he can pop it out in just a
few second at most. In my years in the business i have seen a bunch of window
unit and very few even had a screw in them to hold it in and more than half had
no supports on the outside to hold it up.

So Stevey Window Wonder , we don't want to hear about you window shaker
installing ability but the hvac business as a whole.

TURTLE

"tm" wrote in message
...
"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote:
"TURTLE" wrote

WRONG !!!!!

Bet me your business I cant install a window unit that your theif buddy cant
get out...period..on teh ground...
Bet me Terry, cause you will loose.

'Lose'. 'Loose' means something else entirely.

You must have live a sheiltered life to think that a theif can't pop a
window unit out a window in just a second or two. A window unit can be pop
out just about as fast as a key slot on a steering collium on a car.

Not after we install one....bet me Terry....
Hell, bet me half of what you ****ed the Judge out of.

Always best not to end a sentence in a preposition, otherwise you look
like an illiterate hillbilly.

Now, you seem to be wildly betting that you can install a window ac
that no one can remove from outside. I'll take that bet. Throw your
money away, chump.
Name the place, I'll hitch up the howitzer.

This is Turtrle.

Take it easy on Stevey Window Wonder , for he was raised up by having a
sheiltered life and don't know about Poor people or poor people ways of life.

TURTLE

wrote in message
...
Phil Scott wrote:

Now a question? What do you think happens to an all
steel ship, with frozen storage holds 6 decks deep,
below the
water level, with only the outside of envelope of the
holds insulated, not the steel plates between the
holds...those welded solid of course across the
hull...

I'm having trouble picturing this.

As the refrigeration systems were started up, 3ea 600 ton
ammonia screw machines, the holds reached minus 20F... the
bankers and other other investors were gathered on deck
drinking champagne and eating sushi... a noise some
described as a howitzer being fired occurred, and the ship
shook violently as the high rollers fled for the gang plank
and watched the ship break in half and sink...

Interesting... Would you describe what happened more
exactly?

The steel bulkheads and decking shrank but the outer hull of
the ship didnt becauase it was of course immersed in 50
degree sea water not allowing it to cool along with the
bulkhead and deck plate. the shrink would have been in the
1" range, heavy steel plate, enough to crack the hull all the
way around and below the water line. The ship would have
been of course heavier on one side of the crack, that weight
and boyancy differential would have pulled it apart.

When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his name he was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he shed all of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills and see a
shrink.


Phil Scott



Odd they didn't try this before the bankers showed up... :-)

Nick

On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:07:56 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his name he was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he shed all of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills and see a
shrink.

So, basically, you met some guy in Honolulu, discussed his
lack of body hair with him, discussed the fact that he was higher than
a kite, then listened to his little story.

Hmmmm.......



Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

wrote in message
news
On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:07:56 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his name he
was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he shed all of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills and see
a
shrink.

So, basically, you met some guy in Honolulu, discussed his
lack of body hair with him, discussed the fact that he was
higher than
a kite, then listened to his little story.

Hmmmm.......

Not impressive trash boy... I meet all kinds of people, this
guy held an unlimited sea captains license. and was in
command of one of H Salts lobster processing ships... not a
flake, and yes I believed him... he had no reason to lie.

Your attitude is comon of people who deal with low level jerks
and operates at that range, a trasher boy mentality..not
impressive


Phil Scott




Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today
!!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the
restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 17:13:42 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:


wrote in message
news
On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:07:56 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his name he
was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he shed all of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills and see
a
shrink.

So, basically, you met some guy in Honolulu, discussed his
lack of body hair with him, discussed the fact that he was
higher than
a kite, then listened to his little story.

Hmmmm.......

Not impressive trash boy... I meet all kinds of people, this
guy held an unlimited sea captains license. and was in
command of one of H Salts lobster processing ships... not a
flake, and yes I believed him... he had no reason to lie.

Your attitude is comon of people who deal with low level jerks
and operates at that range, a trasher boy mentality..not
impressive


Phil Scott

**** off, asshole.







Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today
!!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the
restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/


Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 12:51:54 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article ,
says...

I dont' mind of you 'piggyback' off my post, this being USENET and all. But
it
does appear that I've made the statements you're responding to, but you and I
were both responding to "nickanspam"

Please try an avoid that.

Sorry. FWIW, Nick the space cadet is in my kill file, so I
don't have to see his absurdities.


Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com )

This is Turtle.

So if your going to kill file a person . Don't piggy back other peoples post and
answer them if you have them PLONKED. UNPLONK them and answer for yourself and
not piggy backing on others.

TURTLE

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"tm" wrote in message
...
"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote:
"TURTLE" wrote

WRONG !!!!!

Bet me your business I cant install a window unit that your theif buddy
cant
get out...period..on teh ground...
Bet me Terry, cause you will loose.

'Lose'. 'Loose' means something else entirely.

You must have live a sheiltered life to think that a theif can't pop a
window unit out a window in just a second or two. A window unit can be
pop
out just about as fast as a key slot on a steering collium on a car.

Not after we install one....bet me Terry....
Hell, bet me half of what you ****ed the Judge out of.

Always best not to end a sentence in a preposition, otherwise you look
like an illiterate hillbilly.

Now, you seem to be wildly betting that you can install a window ac
that no one can remove from outside. I'll take that bet. Throw your
money away, chump.
Name the place, I'll hitch up the howitzer.

This is Turtrle.

Take it easy on Stevey Window Wonder , for he was raised up by having a
sheiltered life and don't know about Poor people or poor people ways of
life.

And you dont know much about me...care to continue?
This could get fun...

Lemmie guess, when you stole that money from that Judge (hey, you admitted
to a felony, not me.) you did it so you could steal from the rich and give
to the poor right?


TURTLE

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
news
On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:07:56 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his name he was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he shed all of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills and see a
shrink.

So, basically, you met some guy in Honolulu, discussed his
lack of body hair with him, discussed the fact that he was higher than
a kite, then listened to his little story.

Hmmmm.......

Not impressive trash boy... I meet all kinds of people, this guy held an
unlimited sea captains license. and was in command of one of H Salts
lobster processing ships... not a flake, and yes I believed him... he had
no reason to lie.

Your attitude is comon of people who deal with low level jerks and
operates at that range, a trasher boy mentality..not impressive

God, and you have to be a liberal...no sense of humor whatsoever...
I found Pauls reply to you to be quite humorous. Look up sarcasm, and get
back to us.



Phil Scott




Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
news
On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:07:56 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his name he was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he shed all of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills and see a
shrink.

So, basically, you met some guy in Honolulu, discussed his
lack of body hair with him, discussed the fact that he was higher than
a kite, then listened to his little story.

Hmmmm.......

Not impressive trash boy... I meet all kinds of people, this guy held an
unlimited sea captains license. and was in command of one of H Salts lobster
processing ships... not a flake, and yes I believed him... he had no reason to
lie.

Your attitude is comon of people who deal with low level jerks and operates at
that range, a trasher boy mentality..not impressive


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Phil , I think you being selected to be drummed out of alt.hvac because your
ability to reason and figure stuff out better than Steve sea breezer and Paul
the cat lover. Look at all the past replys and you will see a team effort from
these two to remove you with words of dislike. Most people with a good education
will not see a game being plaied by trashy People in team effort.

Just Be Aware !

TURTLE

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
news
On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:07:56 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his name he
was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he shed all
of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills and
see a
shrink.

So, basically, you met some guy in Honolulu, discussed his
lack of body hair with him, discussed the fact that he was
higher than
a kite, then listened to his little story.

Hmmmm.......

Not impressive trash boy... I meet all kinds of people,
this guy held an unlimited sea captains license. and was
in command of one of H Salts lobster processing ships...
not a flake, and yes I believed him... he had no reason to
lie.

Your attitude is comon of people who deal with low level
jerks and operates at that range, a trasher boy
mentality..not impressive


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Phil , I think you being selected to be drummed out of
alt.hvac because your ability to reason and figure stuff out
better than Steve sea breezer and Paul the cat lover. Look
at all the past replys and you will see a team effort from
these two to remove you with words of dislike. Most people
with a good education will not see a game being plaied by
trashy People in team effort.

Just Be Aware !

Thanks,,,i had noticed that too. Mostly I kill file those
types after a short exchange. They sure arent doing the trade
anygood. its those types that drag the rates down also. You
dont see them out here on the west coast or even in Texas to
any extent. it seems to a south east coast but primarily
florida problem due to lax licensing and whatever.


Phil Scott




TURTLE

"FDR" wrote in message
...

"Steve Scott" wrote in message
...
Assuming the furnace is properly sized sealing and
balancing the
system will do wonders.

Well, unfortunately, the previous owners sheetrocked the
lower level ceiling so there's no access to the duct flow
controls for the upper level vents.


I saw a 300 room hotel built with water source heat pumps
above solid sheet rock ceilings,, no return air even.

Phil Scott


On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:05:57 GMT, "FDR"
wrote:


"Steve Scott" wrote in message
...
Measure the temp of the air going into the return grilles
and the
return air temp at the furnace. There's often a big
difference there
too.

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 16:13:16 GMT, "FDR"
wrote:


"Steve Scott" wrote in message
om...
California has estimated the average residential duct
loss there to be
in the 30% range. Based on what we see in NY that
seems reasonable to
me.

Sounds about right. In the winter in NY here the one
side of the house
nearest the furnace blows out 120F while the other end of
the house blows
out 90F.


--
Never mind the facts - I know what I know

The problem too is that the house is cold on one end and
warm on the other
in the winter. The easiest thing seems to be adding a
electric heater to
help a bit.





--
Never mind the facts - I know what I know

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
news On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:07:56 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his name he was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he shed all of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills and see a
shrink.

So, basically, you met some guy in Honolulu, discussed his
lack of body hair with him, discussed the fact that he was higher than
a kite, then listened to his little story.

Hmmmm.......

Not impressive trash boy... I meet all kinds of people, this guy held an
unlimited sea captains license. and was in command of one of H Salts
lobster processing ships... not a flake, and yes I believed him... he had no
reason to lie.

Your attitude is comon of people who deal with low level jerks and operates
at that range, a trasher boy mentality..not impressive


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Phil , I think you being selected to be drummed out of alt.hvac because your
ability to reason and figure stuff out better than Steve sea breezer and Paul
the cat lover. Look at all the past replys and you will see a team effort
from these two to remove you with words of dislike. Most people with a good
education will not see a game being plaied by trashy People in team effort.

Just Be Aware !

Thanks,,,i had noticed that too. Mostly I kill file those types after a short
exchange. They sure arent doing the trade anygood. its those types that drag
the rates down also. You dont see them out here on the west coast or even in
Texas to any extent. it seems to a south east coast but primarily florida
problem due to lax licensing and whatever.


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Louisiana and Florida are about the same with no licences or traning required.
All you need is a $200.00 operator permitt and a set of guages, drum of gas ,
EPA test card, and your a expert.

About the ''''' Control-A-troll ''''' around alt.hvac, there is a few want-a-bee
salesmen and small time scam artist that wants to control the alt.hvac, but they
are not smart enough to know you may get control for one day and then get shot
out of the saddle the next day by the next fellow you try to get out of the
group. i think sometimes that these Control-A-troll think that they can get
control of the group to have it like a advertisment place for Paul's HVAC
Software and Sea Breeze Steve's HVAC parts sold over the internet. Just some
thoughts here.

So , speak freely and just don't worry about the Contol-A-trolls .

TURTLE

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
news On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:07:56 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his name
he was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he shed
all of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills and
see a
shrink.

So, basically, you met some guy in Honolulu, discussed
his
lack of body hair with him, discussed the fact that he
was higher than
a kite, then listened to his little story.

Hmmmm.......

Not impressive trash boy... I meet all kinds of people,
this guy held an unlimited sea captains license. and was
in command of one of H Salts lobster processing ships...
not a flake, and yes I believed him... he had no reason
to lie.

Your attitude is comon of people who deal with low level
jerks and operates at that range, a trasher boy
mentality..not impressive


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Phil , I think you being selected to be drummed out of
alt.hvac because your ability to reason and figure stuff
out better than Steve sea breezer and Paul the cat lover.
Look at all the past replys and you will see a team effort
from these two to remove you with words of dislike. Most
people with a good education will not see a game being
plaied by trashy People in team effort.

Just Be Aware !

Thanks,,,i had noticed that too. Mostly I kill file those
types after a short exchange. They sure arent doing the
trade anygood. its those types that drag the rates down
also. You dont see them out here on the west coast or even
in Texas to any extent. it seems to a south east coast but
primarily florida problem due to lax licensing and
whatever.


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Louisiana and Florida are about the same with no licences or
traning required. All you need is a $200.00 operator permitt
and a set of guages, drum of gas , EPA test card, and your a
expert.

About the ''''' Control-A-troll ''''' around alt.hvac, there
is a few want-a-bee salesmen and small time scam artist that
wants to control the alt.hvac, but they are not smart enough
to know you may get control for one day and then get shot
out of the saddle the next day by the next fellow you try to
get out of the group. i think sometimes that these
Control-A-troll think that they can get control of the group
to have it like a advertisment place for Paul's HVAC
Software and Sea Breeze Steve's HVAC parts sold over the
internet. Just some thoughts here.

OK that explains the motive at least for idiots. They would
have been a lot smarter to have not run off the talented
posters... those are the ones most people arrive to read.

So now these folks have a tiny customer base of idiots...that
type never spends much money.



So , speak freely and just don't worry about the
Contol-A-trolls .

I only see alt.HVAC posts when someone cross posts to
alt.building.construction...otherwise these people were not
impressive.. appliance repairmen for the most part.. nothing
above the home owner level.

The real money in this business is in large commercial
installations and service, the larger hotels, chillers etc
over 100 tons, many in Florida over 500 tons. that work bills
out at over 90 dollars an hour. Here in calif 120 dollars an
hour...and parts profits can double that.

Same with the industrial market we have here in Silicon
valley.. semi conductor clean rooms also in Texas and the
north east. especially the DDC controls end of it.

I tried to tip these guys to that market but it was a no
go....that market takes both brains and a professional
demeanor..

the brains can be fixed up by understanding a few principles
of physics. Most of the applicance types seem to think
physics is over their head...but its actually not if these are
fortunate enough to have a good mentor.

alas... it was not to be. Now that I see who these guys are
Im not going to spend any time on it.


We working class folks, including engineers such as myself are
about to be screwed entirely to the wall here in the US as new
immigrants are doing most of this work cheap..and the high end
is being exported to india.

Its going to pay many of these guys to get some more high end
skills.. On the bottom end there will always be some
appliance work but at 10 bucks an hour, a tough way to make a
living.




Phil Scott


TURTLE

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
news On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:07:56 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his name he was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he shed all of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills and see a
shrink.

So, basically, you met some guy in Honolulu, discussed his
lack of body hair with him, discussed the fact that he was higher
than
a kite, then listened to his little story.

Hmmmm.......

Not impressive trash boy... I meet all kinds of people, this guy held
an unlimited sea captains license. and was in command of one of H
Salts lobster processing ships... not a flake, and yes I believed
him... he had no reason to lie.

Your attitude is comon of people who deal with low level jerks and
operates at that range, a trasher boy mentality..not impressive


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Phil , I think you being selected to be drummed out of alt.hvac because
your ability to reason and figure stuff out better than Steve sea
breezer and Paul the cat lover. Look at all the past replys and you
will see a team effort from these two to remove you with words of
dislike. Most people with a good education will not see a game being
plaied by trashy People in team effort.

Just Be Aware !

Thanks,,,i had noticed that too. Mostly I kill file those types after a
short exchange. They sure arent doing the trade anygood. its those
types that drag the rates down also. You dont see them out here on the
west coast or even in Texas to any extent. it seems to a south east
coast but primarily florida problem due to lax licensing and whatever.


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Louisiana and Florida are about the same with no licences or traning
required. All you need is a $200.00 operator permitt and a set of guages,
drum of gas , EPA test card, and your a expert.

About the ''''' Control-A-troll ''''' around alt.hvac, there is a few
want-a-bee salesmen and small time scam artist that wants to control the
alt.hvac, but they are not smart enough to know you may get control for
one day and then get shot out of the saddle the next day by the next
fellow you try to get out of the group. i think sometimes that these
Control-A-troll think that they can get control of the group to have it
like a advertisment place for Paul's HVAC Software and Sea Breeze Steve's
HVAC parts sold over the internet. Just some thoughts here.

OK that explains the motive at least for idiots. They would have been a
lot smarter to have not run off the talented posters... those are the ones
most people arrive to read.

The only idiot here is you fella..read on.


So now these folks have a tiny customer base of idiots...that type never
spends much money.


Just had one that dropped over 200K and its a large nationally known
commercial builder.
****ing gee..



So , speak freely and just don't worry about the Contol-A-trolls .

I only see alt.HVAC posts when someone cross posts to
alt.building.construction...otherwise these people were not impressive..
appliance repairmen for the most part.. nothing above the home owner
level.

Yup...reminds me of a few engineer wannabes..


The real money in this business is in large commercial installations and
service, the larger hotels, chillers etc over 100 tons, many in Florida
over 500 tons. that work bills out at over 90 dollars an hour. Here in
calif 120 dollars an hour...and parts profits can double that.

Got news for you..10 years ago when I was in CA, the labor rate was $120 per
hour resi....times they do change.


Same with the industrial market we have here in Silicon valley.. semi
conductor clean rooms also in Texas and the north east. especially the
DDC controls end of it.

I tried to tip these guys to that market but it was a no go....that market
takes both brains and a professional demeanor..

the brains can be fixed up by understanding a few principles of physics.
Most of the applicance types seem to think physics is over their
head...but its actually not if these are fortunate enough to have a good
mentor.

alas... it was not to be. Now that I see who these guys are Im not
going to spend any time on it.


We working class folks, including engineers such as myself are about to be
screwed entirely to the wall here in the US as new immigrants are doing
most of this work cheap..and the high end is being exported to india.

Its going to pay many of these guys to get some more high end skills..
On the bottom end there will always be some appliance work but at 10 bucks
an hour, a tough way to make a living.

You are right...but then, in Turtles neck of the world, beer can cold cuts
it.





Phil Scott


TURTLE

In article ,
"TURTLE" wrote:

This is Turtle.

Louisiana and Florida are about the same with no licences or traning
required.
Liar


control of the group to have it like a advertisment place for Paul's HVAC
Software and Sea Breeze Steve's HVAC parts sold over the internet. Just some
thoughts here.

Blow it out your ass weasel. You're just ****ed you aren't qualified to
carry most tech's toolbox's.
Your "old way" bull**** has been unmasked as the hack **** it is.
Motor oil in vacuum pumps, throwing parts at a unit till it runs,
overcharging systems, dangerous operation of equipment and practices
only the untrained or crooked use.

You are the one who has to post or reply to everything here. Usually
after the answer has been posted.

You're a braggart, a liar and a weasel.

--



Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
news On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:07:56 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his name he was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he shed all of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills and see a
shrink.

So, basically, you met some guy in Honolulu, discussed his
lack of body hair with him, discussed the fact that he was higher than
a kite, then listened to his little story.

Hmmmm.......

Not impressive trash boy... I meet all kinds of people, this guy held an
unlimited sea captains license. and was in command of one of H Salts
lobster processing ships... not a flake, and yes I believed him... he had
no reason to lie.

Your attitude is comon of people who deal with low level jerks and
operates at that range, a trasher boy mentality..not impressive


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Phil , I think you being selected to be drummed out of alt.hvac because
your ability to reason and figure stuff out better than Steve sea breezer
and Paul the cat lover. Look at all the past replys and you will see a team
effort from these two to remove you with words of dislike. Most people with
a good education will not see a game being plaied by trashy People in team
effort.

Just Be Aware !

Thanks,,,i had noticed that too. Mostly I kill file those types after a
short exchange. They sure arent doing the trade anygood. its those types
that drag the rates down also. You dont see them out here on the west coast
or even in Texas to any extent. it seems to a south east coast but
primarily florida problem due to lax licensing and whatever.


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Louisiana and Florida are about the same with no licences or traning
required. All you need is a $200.00 operator permitt and a set of guages,
drum of gas , EPA test card, and your a expert.

About the ''''' Control-A-troll ''''' around alt.hvac, there is a few
want-a-bee salesmen and small time scam artist that wants to control the
alt.hvac, but they are not smart enough to know you may get control for one
day and then get shot out of the saddle the next day by the next fellow you
try to get out of the group. i think sometimes that these Control-A-troll
think that they can get control of the group to have it like a advertisment
place for Paul's HVAC Software and Sea Breeze Steve's HVAC parts sold over
the internet. Just some thoughts here.

OK that explains the motive at least for idiots. They would have been a lot
smarter to have not run off the talented posters... those are the ones most
people arrive to read.

So now these folks have a tiny customer base of idiots...that type never
spends much money.



So , speak freely and just don't worry about the Contol-A-trolls .

I only see alt.HVAC posts when someone cross posts to
alt.building.construction...otherwise these people were not impressive..
appliance repairmen for the most part.. nothing above the home owner level.

The real money in this business is in large commercial installations and
service, the larger hotels, chillers etc over 100 tons, many in Florida over
500 tons. that work bills out at over 90 dollars an hour. Here in calif 120
dollars an hour...and parts profits can double that.

Same with the industrial market we have here in Silicon valley.. semi
conductor clean rooms also in Texas and the north east. especially the DDC
controls end of it.

I tried to tip these guys to that market but it was a no go....that market
takes both brains and a professional demeanor..

the brains can be fixed up by understanding a few principles of physics.
Most of the applicance types seem to think physics is over their head...but
its actually not if these are fortunate enough to have a good mentor.

alas... it was not to be. Now that I see who these guys are Im not going to
spend any time on it.


We working class folks, including engineers such as myself are about to be
screwed entirely to the wall here in the US as new immigrants are doing most
of this work cheap..and the high end is being exported to india.

Its going to pay many of these guys to get some more high end skills.. On
the bottom end there will always be some appliance work but at 10 bucks an
hour, a tough way to make a living.
Phil Scott


this is Turtle.

this group is not the caliber to talking to , to fill that set of boots. we are
techs, small business owners, Software salesmen, and a few want a bee King of
the Hill. I think the show King of the hill best describes the alt.hvac..

i knew of only three people who come through here that could be interested in
the offers you spoke of but they was run off by the stupid King of the Hill
Game.

TURTLE

TURTLE wrote:

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
.. .

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
newslshf1hh835tb45ul9aiu44uddpd0pvp0p@4ax. com...

On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:07:56 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:


When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his name he was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he shed all of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills and see a
shrink.

So, basically, you met some guy in Honolulu, discussed his
lack of body hair with him, discussed the fact that he was higher than
a kite, then listened to his little story.

Hmmmm.......

Not impressive trash boy... I meet all kinds of people, this guy held an
unlimited sea captains license. and was in command of one of H Salts
lobster processing ships... not a flake, and yes I believed him... he had
no reason to lie.

Your attitude is comon of people who deal with low level jerks and
operates at that range, a trasher boy mentality..not impressive


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Phil , I think you being selected to be drummed out of alt.hvac because
your ability to reason and figure stuff out better than Steve sea breezer
and Paul the cat lover. Look at all the past replys and you will see a team
effort from these two to remove you with words of dislike. Most people with
a good education will not see a game being plaied by trashy People in team
effort.

Just Be Aware !

Thanks,,,i had noticed that too. Mostly I kill file those types after a
short exchange. They sure arent doing the trade anygood. its those types
that drag the rates down also. You dont see them out here on the west coast
or even in Texas to any extent. it seems to a south east coast but
primarily florida problem due to lax licensing and whatever.


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Louisiana and Florida are about the same with no licences or traning
required. All you need is a $200.00 operator permitt and a set of guages,
drum of gas , EPA test card, and your a expert.

About the ''''' Control-A-troll ''''' around alt.hvac, there is a few
want-a-bee salesmen and small time scam artist that wants to control the
alt.hvac, but they are not smart enough to know you may get control for one
day and then get shot out of the saddle the next day by the next fellow you
try to get out of the group. i think sometimes that these Control-A-troll
think that they can get control of the group to have it like a advertisment
place for Paul's HVAC Software and Sea Breeze Steve's HVAC parts sold over
the internet. Just some thoughts here.

OK that explains the motive at least for idiots. They would have been a lot
smarter to have not run off the talented posters... those are the ones most
people arrive to read.

So now these folks have a tiny customer base of idiots...that type never
spends much money.



So , speak freely and just don't worry about the Contol-A-trolls .

I only see alt.HVAC posts when someone cross posts to
alt.building.construction...otherwise these people were not impressive..
appliance repairmen for the most part.. nothing above the home owner level.

The real money in this business is in large commercial installations and
service, the larger hotels, chillers etc over 100 tons, many in Florida over
500 tons. that work bills out at over 90 dollars an hour. Here in calif 120
dollars an hour...and parts profits can double that.

Same with the industrial market we have here in Silicon valley.. semi
conductor clean rooms also in Texas and the north east. especially the DDC
controls end of it.

I tried to tip these guys to that market but it was a no go....that market
takes both brains and a professional demeanor..

the brains can be fixed up by understanding a few principles of physics.
Most of the applicance types seem to think physics is over their head...but
its actually not if these are fortunate enough to have a good mentor.

alas... it was not to be. Now that I see who these guys are Im not going to
spend any time on it.


We working class folks, including engineers such as myself are about to be
screwed entirely to the wall here in the US as new immigrants are doing most
of this work cheap..and the high end is being exported to india.

Its going to pay many of these guys to get some more high end skills.. On
the bottom end there will always be some appliance work but at 10 bucks an
hour, a tough way to make a living.
Phil Scott



this is Turtle.

this group is not the caliber to talking to , to fill that set of boots. we are
techs, small business owners, Software salesmen, and a few want a bee King of
the Hill. I think the show King of the hill best describes the alt.hvac..

i knew of only three people who come through here that could be interested in
the offers you spoke of but they was run off by the stupid King of the Hill
Game.

If it even sounds like Air conditioning or Heating, then I work on it.
1/2ton to 700tons. I'm still here Turtle. As for Phil, he's an ass who
is full of himself, apparently. And Jake is apparently as much an
industrial/commercial guy as Phil, and more so than even I am.
Some of our customers, or as Jake calls them "clients":
Bitec, Dana, Laddish, Tyson Corp., Eskimo Pie, Entergy Corp. JW
Aluminum, Firestone...., and these are just a few.

Bugger off Phil, I didn't have a problem with you until you started
spouting ****.

hvacrmedic



hvacrmedic

"RP" wrote in message
...


TURTLE wrote:

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
. ..

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
t...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
newslshf1hh835tb45ul9aiu44uddpd0pvp0p@4ax .com...

On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:07:56 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:


When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his name he was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he shed all of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills and see a
shrink.

So, basically, you met some guy in Honolulu, discussed his
lack of body hair with him, discussed the fact that he was higher than
a kite, then listened to his little story.

Hmmmm.......

Not impressive trash boy... I meet all kinds of people, this guy held an
unlimited sea captains license. and was in command of one of H Salts
lobster processing ships... not a flake, and yes I believed him... he had
no reason to lie.

Your attitude is comon of people who deal with low level jerks and
operates at that range, a trasher boy mentality..not impressive


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Phil , I think you being selected to be drummed out of alt.hvac because
your ability to reason and figure stuff out better than Steve sea breezer
and Paul the cat lover. Look at all the past replys and you will see a
team effort from these two to remove you with words of dislike. Most
people with a good education will not see a game being plaied by trashy
People in team effort.

Just Be Aware !

Thanks,,,i had noticed that too. Mostly I kill file those types after a
short exchange. They sure arent doing the trade anygood. its those types
that drag the rates down also. You dont see them out here on the west
coast or even in Texas to any extent. it seems to a south east coast but
primarily florida problem due to lax licensing and whatever.


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Louisiana and Florida are about the same with no licences or traning
required. All you need is a $200.00 operator permitt and a set of guages,
drum of gas , EPA test card, and your a expert.

About the ''''' Control-A-troll ''''' around alt.hvac, there is a few
want-a-bee salesmen and small time scam artist that wants to control the
alt.hvac, but they are not smart enough to know you may get control for one
day and then get shot out of the saddle the next day by the next fellow you
try to get out of the group. i think sometimes that these Control-A-troll
think that they can get control of the group to have it like a advertisment
place for Paul's HVAC Software and Sea Breeze Steve's HVAC parts sold over
the internet. Just some thoughts here.

OK that explains the motive at least for idiots. They would have been a lot
smarter to have not run off the talented posters... those are the ones most
people arrive to read.

So now these folks have a tiny customer base of idiots...that type never
spends much money.



So , speak freely and just don't worry about the Contol-A-trolls .

I only see alt.HVAC posts when someone cross posts to
alt.building.construction...otherwise these people were not impressive..
appliance repairmen for the most part.. nothing above the home owner level.

The real money in this business is in large commercial installations and
service, the larger hotels, chillers etc over 100 tons, many in Florida over
500 tons. that work bills out at over 90 dollars an hour. Here in calif
120 dollars an hour...and parts profits can double that.

Same with the industrial market we have here in Silicon valley.. semi
conductor clean rooms also in Texas and the north east. especially the DDC
controls end of it.

I tried to tip these guys to that market but it was a no go....that market
takes both brains and a professional demeanor..

the brains can be fixed up by understanding a few principles of physics. Most
of the applicance types seem to think physics is over their head...but its
actually not if these are fortunate enough to have a good mentor.

alas... it was not to be. Now that I see who these guys are Im not going
to spend any time on it.


We working class folks, including engineers such as myself are about to be
screwed entirely to the wall here in the US as new immigrants are doing most
of this work cheap..and the high end is being exported to india.

Its going to pay many of these guys to get some more high end skills.. On
the bottom end there will always be some appliance work but at 10 bucks an
hour, a tough way to make a living.
Phil Scott



this is Turtle.

this group is not the caliber to talking to , to fill that set of boots. we
are techs, small business owners, Software salesmen, and a few want a bee
King of the Hill. I think the show King of the hill best describes the
alt.hvac..

i knew of only three people who come through here that could be interested in
the offers you spoke of but they was run off by the stupid King of the Hill
Game.

If it even sounds like Air conditioning or Heating, then I work on it. 1/2ton
to 700tons. I'm still here Turtle. As for Phil, he's an ass who is full of
himself, apparently. And Jake is apparently as much an industrial/commercial
guy as Phil, and more so than even I am.
Some of our customers, or as Jake calls them "clients":
Bitec, Dana, Laddish, Tyson Corp., Eskimo Pie, Entergy Corp. JW Aluminum,
Firestone...., and these are just a few.

Bugger off Phil, I didn't have a problem with you until you started spouting
****.

hvacrmedic


This is Turtle.

OK you have the ability to take on a 700 Ton chiller bid on jobs. Now who else
here has that ability around here to take it on. There is nobody here with any
respectiable words or company that could take on this type job. i ask sometime
back about a bid on a Casino job that would run into the Millions and i had a
line on it for being one of the good old boy indians. i ask here did anybody
want to take the job for i can hand it to them if they wanted it. Nobody want
any of it or even spoke of taking it. the job would be for Grand Casino corp. in
Kinder , Louisiana.

also i don't know Phil but he did touch on the problems we was having and what
or how stupid we have become on the newsgroup. Weither Phil is a Troll , No body
, or a King of the HVAC world makes no difference but what he saids was very
much true. Now I'm sorry for offending you with my Frankly spoken words but what
i think , I will speak. Now here is some more words and don't concider them
coming from anybody but ME.

We at alt.hvac have become a bunch of kids fighting over control of the group
and also there is for some reason we will run off anybody that wants to speak
professionally with no cussing or name calling. i see professional come in and
just a little while i see then say well see you, i can't handle this stupidity
going on here.

also we have become a place where a tech can't ask a question openly without
someone flaming on him for now knowing something about the question he ask. It's
call ask a question , we see what you don't know, and then let's make a ass out
of him for not knowing what he ask about in the question. You can see for your
self that no one ask open questions about the business for if they do they will
get put down for not knowing something some GOD or King of the HVAC world thinks
that person should know and I'm not talking about Stormy. I can ask a simple
question right now and if Jake is not around. No one will want to answer it for
you get fired on to answer simple questions which shows you are not a HVAC GOD
and should be run off.

Now here is the group's condition and if it offends you, Sorry about that. If it
don't offend you. You may want to look at what is going on here and try to do
something about it.

TURTLE

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"RP" wrote in message
...


TURTLE wrote:

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
et...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
newslshf1hh835tb45ul9aiu44uddpd0pvp0p@4a x.com...

On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:07:56 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:


When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his
name he was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on
his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he
shed all of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills
and see a
shrink.

So, basically, you met some guy in Honolulu,
discussed his
lack of body hair with him, discussed the fact that
he was higher than
a kite, then listened to his little story.

Hmmmm.......

Not impressive trash boy... I meet all kinds of
people, this guy held an unlimited sea captains
license. and was in command of one of H Salts lobster
processing ships... not a flake, and yes I believed
him... he had no reason to lie.

Your attitude is comon of people who deal with low
level jerks and operates at that range, a trasher boy
mentality..not impressive


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Phil , I think you being selected to be drummed out of
alt.hvac because your ability to reason and figure
stuff out better than Steve sea breezer and Paul the
cat lover. Look at all the past replys and you will see
a team effort from these two to remove you with words
of dislike. Most people with a good education will not
see a game being plaied by trashy People in team
effort.

Just Be Aware !

Thanks,,,i had noticed that too. Mostly I kill file
those types after a short exchange. They sure arent
doing the trade anygood. its those types that drag the
rates down also. You dont see them out here on the west
coast or even in Texas to any extent. it seems to a
south east coast but primarily florida problem due to
lax licensing and whatever.


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Louisiana and Florida are about the same with no licences
or traning required. All you need is a $200.00 operator
permitt and a set of guages, drum of gas , EPA test card,
and your a expert.

About the ''''' Control-A-troll ''''' around alt.hvac,
there is a few want-a-bee salesmen and small time scam
artist that wants to control the alt.hvac, but they are
not smart enough to know you may get control for one day
and then get shot out of the saddle the next day by the
next fellow you try to get out of the group. i think
sometimes that these Control-A-troll think that they can
get control of the group to have it like a advertisment
place for Paul's HVAC Software and Sea Breeze Steve's
HVAC parts sold over the internet. Just some thoughts
here.

OK that explains the motive at least for idiots. They
would have been a lot smarter to have not run off the
talented posters... those are the ones most people arrive
to read.

So now these folks have a tiny customer base of
idiots...that type never spends much money.



So , speak freely and just don't worry about the
Contol-A-trolls .

I only see alt.HVAC posts when someone cross posts to
alt.building.construction...otherwise these people were
not impressive.. appliance repairmen for the most part..
nothing above the home owner level.

The real money in this business is in large commercial
installations and service, the larger hotels, chillers etc
over 100 tons, many in Florida over 500 tons. that work
bills out at over 90 dollars an hour. Here in calif 120
dollars an hour...and parts profits can double that.

Same with the industrial market we have here in Silicon
valley.. semi conductor clean rooms also in Texas and the
north east. especially the DDC controls end of it.

I tried to tip these guys to that market but it was a no
go....that market takes both brains and a professional
demeanor..

the brains can be fixed up by understanding a few
principles of physics. Most of the applicance types seem
to think physics is over their head...but its actually not
if these are fortunate enough to have a good mentor.

alas... it was not to be. Now that I see who these guys
are Im not going to spend any time on it.


We working class folks, including engineers such as myself
are about to be screwed entirely to the wall here in the
US as new immigrants are doing most of this work
cheap..and the high end is being exported to india.

Its going to pay many of these guys to get some more high
end skills.. On the bottom end there will always be
some appliance work but at 10 bucks an hour, a tough way
to make a living.
Phil Scott



this is Turtle.

this group is not the caliber to talking to , to fill that
set of boots. we are techs, small business owners,
Software salesmen, and a few want a bee King of the Hill.
I think the show King of the hill best describes the
alt.hvac..

i knew of only three people who come through here that
could be interested in the offers you spoke of but they
was run off by the stupid King of the Hill Game.

If it even sounds like Air conditioning or Heating, then I
work on it. 1/2ton to 700tons. I'm still here Turtle. As
for Phil, he's an ass who is full of himself, apparently.
And Jake is apparently as much an industrial/commercial guy
as Phil, and more so than even I am.
Some of our customers, or as Jake calls them "clients":
Bitec, Dana, Laddish, Tyson Corp., Eskimo Pie, Entergy
Corp. JW Aluminum, Firestone...., and these are just a few.

Bugger off Phil, I didn't have a problem with you until you
started spouting ****.

hvacrmedic


This is Turtle.

OK you have the ability to take on a 700 Ton chiller bid on
jobs. Now who else here has that ability around here to take
it on. There is nobody here with any respectiable words or
company that could take on this type job. i ask sometime
back about a bid on a Casino job that would run into the
Millions and i had a line on it for being one of the good
old boy indians. i ask here did anybody want to take the job
for i can hand it to them if they wanted it. Nobody want any
of it or even spoke of taking it. the job would be for Grand
Casino corp. in Kinder , Louisiana.

also i don't know Phil but he did touch on the problems we
was having and what or how stupid we have become on the
newsgroup. Weither Phil is a Troll , No body , or a King of
the HVAC world makes no difference but what he saids was
very much true. Now I'm sorry for offending you with my
Frankly spoken words but what i think , I will speak. Now
here is some more words and don't concider them coming from
anybody but ME.

We at alt.hvac have become a bunch of kids fighting over
control of the group and also there is for some reason we
will run off anybody that wants to speak professionally with
no cussing or name calling. i see professional come in and
just a little while i see then say well see you, i can't
handle this stupidity going on here.

also we have become a place where a tech can't ask a
question openly without someone flaming on him for now
knowing something about the question he ask. It's call ask a
question , we see what you don't know, and then let's make a
ass out of him for not knowing what he ask about in the
question. You can see for your self that no one ask open
questions about the business for if they do they will get
put down for not knowing something some GOD or King of the
HVAC world thinks that person should know and I'm not
talking about Stormy. I can ask a simple question right now
and if Jake is not around. No one will want to answer it for
you get fired on to answer simple questions which shows you
are not a HVAC GOD and should be run off.

Now here is the group's condition and if it offends you,
Sorry about that. If it don't offend you. You may want to
look at what is going on here and try to do something about
it.

TURTLE


If these guys were doing major chiller jobs they wouldnt be
bragging about their 10 dollar hour wage, and discussing
residential systems, then failing to respond entirely with
technical insight on the high end industrial issues.

People who do industrial systems like to talk that tech...and
know the issues. When I was postng alt.HVAC only one guy was
able to discuss the business at that level.

the ability to discuss that level of technology is the proof
of the pudding, not listing the names of some fortune 500
companies and claiming one does work for them.


Phil Scott

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
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...

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...


TURTLE wrote:

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

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et...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
newslshf1hh835tb45ul9aiu44uddpd0pvp0p@4a x.com...

On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:07:56 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:


When I met the engineer. a greek guy I forgot his
name he was
in Honolulu atire, shorts, and boots..and no hair on
his
body...he told me the story.. he got so upset he
shed all of
his hair and had to take a range of calm down pills
and see a
shrink.

So, basically, you met some guy in Honolulu,
discussed his
lack of body hair with him, discussed the fact that
he was higher than
a kite, then listened to his little story.

Hmmmm.......

Not impressive trash boy... I meet all kinds of
people, this guy held an unlimited sea captains
license. and was in command of one of H Salts lobster
processing ships... not a flake, and yes I believed
him... he had no reason to lie.

Your attitude is comon of people who deal with low
level jerks and operates at that range, a trasher boy
mentality..not impressive


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Phil , I think you being selected to be drummed out of
alt.hvac because your ability to reason and figure
stuff out better than Steve sea breezer and Paul the
cat lover. Look at all the past replys and you will see
a team effort from these two to remove you with words
of dislike. Most people with a good education will not
see a game being plaied by trashy People in team
effort.

Just Be Aware !

Thanks,,,i had noticed that too. Mostly I kill file
those types after a short exchange. They sure arent
doing the trade anygood. its those types that drag the
rates down also. You dont see them out here on the west
coast or even in Texas to any extent. it seems to a
south east coast but primarily florida problem due to
lax licensing and whatever.


Phil Scott


This is Turtle.

Louisiana and Florida are about the same with no licences
or traning required. All you need is a $200.00 operator
permitt and a set of guages, drum of gas , EPA test card,
and your a expert.

About the ''''' Control-A-troll ''''' around alt.hvac,
there is a few want-a-bee salesmen and small time scam
artist that wants to control the alt.hvac, but they are
not smart enough to know you may get control for one day
and then get shot out of the saddle the next day by the
next fellow you try to get out of the group. i think
sometimes that these Control-A-troll think that they can
get control of the group to have it like a advertisment
place for Paul's HVAC Software and Sea Breeze Steve's
HVAC parts sold over the internet. Just some thoughts
here.

OK that explains the motive at least for idiots. They
would have been a lot smarter to have not run off the
talented posters... those are the ones most people arrive
to read.

So now these folks have a tiny customer base of
idiots...that type never spends much money.



So , speak freely and just don't worry about the
Contol-A-trolls .

I only see alt.HVAC posts when someone cross posts to
alt.building.construction...otherwise these people were
not impressive.. appliance repairmen for the most part..
nothing above the home owner level.

The real money in this business is in large commercial
installations and service, the larger hotels, chillers etc
over 100 tons, many in Florida over 500 tons. that work
bills out at over 90 dollars an hour. Here in calif 120
dollars an hour...and parts profits can double that.

Same with the industrial market we have here in Silicon
valley.. semi conductor clean rooms also in Texas and the
north east. especially the DDC controls end of it.

I tried to tip these guys to that market but it was a no
go....that market takes both brains and a professional
demeanor..

the brains can be fixed up by understanding a few
principles of physics. Most of the applicance types seem
to think physics is over their head...but its actually not
if these are fortunate enough to have a good mentor.

alas... it was not to be. Now that I see who these guys
are Im not going to spend any time on it.


We working class folks, including engineers such as myself
are about to be screwed entirely to the wall here in the
US as new immigrants are doing most of this work
cheap..and the high end is being exported to india.

Its going to pay many of these guys to get some more high
end skills.. On the bottom end there will always be
some appliance work but at 10 bucks an hour, a tough way
to make a living.
Phil Scott



this is Turtle.

this group is not the caliber to talking to , to fill that
set of boots. we are techs, small business owners,
Software salesmen, and a few want a bee King of the Hill.
I think the show King of the hill best describes the
alt.hvac..

i knew of only three people who come through here that
could be interested in the offers you spoke of but they
was run off by the stupid King of the Hill Game.

If it even sounds like Air conditioning or Heating, then I
work on it. 1/2ton to 700tons. I'm still here Turtle. As
for Phil, he's an ass who is full of himself, apparently.
And Jake is apparently as much an industrial/commercial guy
as Phil, and more so than even I am.
Some of our customers, or as Jake calls them "clients":
Bitec, Dana, Laddish, Tyson Corp., Eskimo Pie, Entergy
Corp. JW Aluminum, Firestone...., and these are just a few.

Bugger off Phil, I didn't have a problem with you until you
started spouting ****.

hvacrmedic


This is Turtle.

OK you have the ability to take on a 700 Ton chiller bid on
jobs. Now who else here has that ability around here to take
it on. There is nobody here with any respectiable words or
company that could take on this type job. i ask sometime
back about a bid on a Casino job that would run into the
Millions and i had a line on it for being one of the good
old boy indians. i ask here did anybody want to take the job
for i can hand it to them if they wanted it. Nobody want any
of it or even spoke of taking it. the job would be for Grand
Casino corp. in Kinder , Louisiana.

also i don't know Phil but he did touch on the problems we
was having and what or how stupid we have become on the
newsgroup. Weither Phil is a Troll , No body , or a King of
the HVAC world makes no difference but what he saids was
very much true. Now I'm sorry for offending you with my
Frankly spoken words but what i think , I will speak. Now
here is some more words and don't concider them coming from
anybody but ME.

We at alt.hvac have become a bunch of kids fighting over
control of the group and also there is for some reason we
will run off anybody that wants to speak professionally with
no cussing or name calling. i see professional come in and
just a little while i see then say well see you, i can't
handle this stupidity going on here.

also we have become a place where a tech can't ask a
question openly without someone flaming on him for now
knowing something about the question he ask. It's call ask a
question , we see what you don't know, and then let's make a
ass out of him for not knowing what he ask about in the
question. You can see for your self that no one ask open
questions about the business for if they do they will get
put down for not knowing something some GOD or King of the
HVAC world thinks that person should know and I'm not
talking about Stormy. I can ask a simple question right now
and if Jake is not around. No one will want to answer it for
you get fired on to answer simple questions which shows you
are not a HVAC GOD and should be run off.

Now here is the group's condition and if it offends you,
Sorry about that. If it don't offend you. You may want to
look at what is going on here and try to do something about
it.

TURTLE


If these guys were doing major chiller jobs they wouldnt be
bragging about their 10 dollar hour wage, and discussing
residential systems, then failing to respond entirely with
technical insight on the high end industrial issues.

People who do industrial systems like to talk that tech...and
know the issues. When I was postng alt.HVAC only one guy was
able to discuss the business at that level.

the ability to discuss that level of technology is the proof
of the pudding, not listing the names of some fortune 500
companies and claiming one does work for them.



Actually all Ive really seen from you so far besides a re-cap of commercial
refrigeration through time is some cockamamy story about a ship supposedly
popping apart...

And at this juncture the solution is fairly obvious= build a new
ship........

--

SVL