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  #1   Report Post  
Nehmo
 
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Default Central Air v. Window-unit Air?

If a house currently has multiple window air-conditioners, are these
significantly less efficient than central air, if the house were
retrofitted with it?

I realize the comparison is complicated, so assume all other factors
equal, and assume: the vents and their position for central air would be
adequate; about half the rooms are normally in use; nobody's concerned
about the window-view obstruction, etc.; Chicago climate; poorly
insulated house.

A companion question is, does the efficiency of air conditioners
increase significantly with size?

--
|||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev ||||||||||||||||

  #2   Report Post  
Joseph Meehan
 
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Default

Nehmo wrote:
If a house currently has multiple window air-conditioners, are these
significantly less efficient than central air, if the house were
retrofitted with it?

I realize the comparison is complicated, so assume all other factors
equal, and assume: the vents and their position for central air would
be adequate; about half the rooms are normally in use; nobody's
concerned about the window-view obstruction, etc.; Chicago climate;
poorly insulated house.

A companion question is, does the efficiency of air conditioners
increase significantly with size?

|||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev ||||||||||||||||


Generally whole house will be more efficient and more trouble free as
well as quieter.

Windows units can be more efficient as you can zone each room, so while
the individual unit may be less efficient, you may use less overall energy
because it is easier to turn them off in one room.

Frankly, I would go with central.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit


  #3   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
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Default


"Nehmo" wrote in message
...
If a house currently has multiple window air-conditioners, are these
significantly less efficient than central air, if the house were
retrofitted with it?

I realize the comparison is complicated, so assume all other factors
equal, and assume: the vents and their position for central air would be
adequate; about half the rooms are normally in use; nobody's concerned
about the window-view obstruction, etc.; Chicago climate; poorly
insulated house.


If Chicago is as warm as I think it is, I'd go with central if possible.
More efficient, quieter, more even temperatures in the house.

Where I live, it becomes marginal most years. Normal summer we need AC
maybe five to 8 days and maybe an additional 10 nights in just the bedroom.
That makes window units far more economical compared to running a big
system.

In warmer climates I'd never consider window units..


  #4   Report Post  
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
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On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 23:13:03 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Nehmo" wrote in message
...
If a house currently has multiple window air-conditioners, are these
significantly less efficient than central air, if the house were
retrofitted with it?

I realize the comparison is complicated, so assume all other factors
equal, and assume: the vents and their position for central air would be
adequate; about half the rooms are normally in use; nobody's concerned
about the window-view obstruction, etc.; Chicago climate; poorly
insulated house.


If Chicago is as warm as I think it is, I'd go with central if possible.


Yeh, Chicago is famous for being **HOT** :-(

More efficient, quieter, more even temperatures in the house.

Where I live, it becomes marginal most years. Normal summer we need AC
maybe five to 8 days and maybe an additional 10 nights in just the bedroom.
That makes window units far more economical compared to running a big
system.

In warmer climates I'd never consider window units..


Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
  #5   Report Post  
Stormin Mormon
 
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Default

Window shakers come in assortment of efficiency. But, overall, I believe
that central AC is more efficient.

Please ask your installer for:
* Rotary compressor
* TXV coil

Expect to pay a couple dollars more than a piston compressor and orifice
coil. But, will pay for itself in efficiency.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Nehmo" wrote in message
...
If a house currently has multiple window air-conditioners, are these
significantly less efficient than central air, if the house were
retrofitted with it?

I realize the comparison is complicated, so assume all other factors
equal, and assume: the vents and their position for central air would be
adequate; about half the rooms are normally in use; nobody's concerned
about the window-view obstruction, etc.; Chicago climate; poorly
insulated house.

A companion question is, does the efficiency of air conditioners
increase significantly with size?

--
|||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev ||||||||||||||||




  #6   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Installing central air costs a lot of money. Once it's installed, the
cost of running it is less than the cost of what you have now.
However, it would take more than 30 years to make up the cost. It
could even take more than 100 years. In other words, if it costs you
$1000 a year to run window units and $800 a year to run central air
that's a savings of $200. However, if central air costs $6,000 to
install, it will take 30 years times $200 a year for you to get your
money back.
So if you are comfortable now, don't change. If you are hot now,
consider the money.

  #7   Report Post  
Noon-Air
 
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Default

We can't *see* it from here. Call your local, *competent*, licensed,
insured, professionally trained, HVAC technician to do a complete assesment
of what your home requires so that it can be fitted with a complete comfort
system and what the cost vs payback is for you home.
In this neck of the woods, the payoff is pretty quick (roughly 5 years) for
a complete high efficiency comfort system.

"Nehmo" wrote in message
...
If a house currently has multiple window air-conditioners, are these
significantly less efficient than central air, if the house were
retrofitted with it?

I realize the comparison is complicated, so assume all other factors
equal, and assume: the vents and their position for central air would be
adequate; about half the rooms are normally in use; nobody's concerned
about the window-view obstruction, etc.; Chicago climate; poorly
insulated house.

A companion question is, does the efficiency of air conditioners
increase significantly with size?

--
|||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev ||||||||||||||||



  #8   Report Post  
RP
 
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Default



Stormin Mormon wrote:

Window shakers come in assortment of efficiency. But, overall, I believe
that central AC is more efficient.

Please ask your installer for:
* Rotary compressor


If you're shopping for a central AC unit, do not ask for a rotary
compressor. You'll get a curious look from the salesman.
Most geo units and most window units come with rotary compressors,
central units no.
Did you mean *scroll*?

* TXV coil


Yes to this. Demand a TXV coil.


Expect to pay a couple dollars more than a piston compressor and orifice
coil. But, will pay for itself in efficiency.


hvacrmedic

  #9   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Window shakers come in assortment of efficiency. But, overall, I believe
that central AC is more efficient.

Please ask your installer for:
* Rotary compressor
* TXV coil

Expect to pay a couple dollars more than a piston compressor and orifice
coil. But, will pay for itself in efficiency.

--

Christopher A. Young


This is Turtle.

Come On now Stormy Stop that asking for Rotory Compressors. You know it is a
scroll !

TURTLE


  #10   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote in message
ups.com...
Installing central air costs a lot of money. Once it's installed, the
cost of running it is less than the cost of what you have now.
However, it would take more than 30 years to make up the cost. It
could even take more than 100 years. In other words, if it costs you
$1000 a year to run window units and $800 a year to run central air
that's a savings of $200. However, if central air costs $6,000 to
install, it will take 30 years times $200 a year for you to get your
money back.
So if you are comfortable now, don't change. If you are hot now,
consider the money.


This is Turtle.

If you think a standard hvac system would cost about $6K. I need to move my
business to your area and open back up for I like the way you think.

TURTLE




  #11   Report Post  
RP
 
Posts: n/a
Default



TURTLE wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...

Installing central air costs a lot of money. Once it's installed, the
cost of running it is less than the cost of what you have now.
However, it would take more than 30 years to make up the cost. It
could even take more than 100 years. In other words, if it costs you
$1000 a year to run window units and $800 a year to run central air
that's a savings of $200. However, if central air costs $6,000 to
install, it will take 30 years times $200 a year for you to get your
money back.
So if you are comfortable now, don't change. If you are hot now,
consider the money.



This is Turtle.

If you think a standard hvac system would cost about $6K. I need to move my
business to your area and open back up for I like the way you think.


Are you still in the business Turtle? 6K is a normal median price. Some
are less, some more. You can't touch an Infinity system for 6K, nor even
just a 13SEER 410-A over 3.5 tons.

hvacrmedic





  #12   Report Post  
RP
 
Posts: n/a
Default



RP wrote:



TURTLE wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...

Installing central air costs a lot of money. Once it's installed, the
cost of running it is less than the cost of what you have now.
However, it would take more than 30 years to make up the cost. It
could even take more than 100 years. In other words, if it costs you
$1000 a year to run window units and $800 a year to run central air
that's a savings of $200. However, if central air costs $6,000 to
install, it will take 30 years times $200 a year for you to get your
money back.
So if you are comfortable now, don't change. If you are hot now,
consider the money.



This is Turtle.

If you think a standard hvac system would cost about $6K. I need to
move my business to your area and open back up for I like the way you
think.



Are you still in the business Turtle? 6K is a normal median price. Some
are less, some more. You can't touch an Infinity system for 6K, nor even
just a 13SEER 410-A over 3.5 tons.


BTW, given that the OP apparently needs ductwork too, well, Awwwwww

hvacrmedic



  #13   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"RP" wrote in message
...


RP wrote:



TURTLE wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...

Installing central air costs a lot of money. Once it's installed, the
cost of running it is less than the cost of what you have now.
However, it would take more than 30 years to make up the cost. It
could even take more than 100 years. In other words, if it costs you
$1000 a year to run window units and $800 a year to run central air
that's a savings of $200. However, if central air costs $6,000 to
install, it will take 30 years times $200 a year for you to get your
money back.
So if you are comfortable now, don't change. If you are hot now,
consider the money.



This is Turtle.

If you think a standard hvac system would cost about $6K. I need to move my
business to your area and open back up for I like the way you think.



Are you still in the business Turtle? 6K is a normal median price. Some are
less, some more. You can't touch an Infinity system for 6K, nor even just a
13SEER 410-A over 3.5 tons.


BTW, given that the OP apparently needs ductwork too, well, Awwwwww

hvacrmedic


This is Turtle.

I don't know of any single hvac system that cost $6K as of now or in history of
Oakdale.

There is 3 -- 410-A systems in oakdale and all 3 of them are not working. We had
a local install them and they don't work right. He has not got paid for them yet
and is being sued.

The highest bid i know of was $5,300.00 for a 5 ton 13 seer rheem heat pump for
a small Church and plenty of ductwork.

now if you get commercially the money goes up and $6K is nothing for a job. Now
all residentiually job are poor boy stuff and is low ball, city. We have one
hvac fellow who trys to get $250.00 off a complete system change out of 4 or 5
tons.

TURTLE


  #14   Report Post  
 
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"Are you still in the business Turtle? 6K is a normal median price.
Some
are less, some more. You can't touch an Infinity system for 6K, nor
even
just a 13SEER 410-A over 3.5 tons. "

And of course it all depends on where you're starting from. If the
house has a modern forced air heating system, it;s one thing. If it
has hot water heat, then it's a different story.

  #15   Report Post  
PrecisionMachinisT
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
ups.com...
"Are you still in the business Turtle? 6K is a normal median price.
Some
are less, some more. You can't touch an Infinity system for 6K, nor
even
just a 13SEER 410-A over 3.5 tons. "

And of course it all depends on where you're starting from. If the
house has a modern forced air heating system, it;s one thing. If it
has hot water heat, then it's a different story.


Yeah lotsa hot water heating systems in Louisiana is my bet.

--

SVL




  #16   Report Post  
Greg O
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Window shakers come in assortment of efficiency. But, overall, I believe
that central AC is more efficient.

Please ask your installer for:
* Rotary compressor
* TXV coil

Expect to pay a couple dollars more than a piston compressor and orifice
coil. But, will pay for itself in efficiency.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com



Rotary compressor in a central AC unit?? That I gotta see!
Window shaker or a mini split perhaps, but not on a typical central air.
Greg


  #17   Report Post  
Phil Scott
 
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Default


"Nehmo" wrote in message
...
If a house currently has multiple window air-conditioners,
are these
significantly less efficient than central air, if the house
were
retrofitted with it?


Window AC's typically 10 to 12 SEER (Seasonal Energy
Efficiency).. 12 is not bad... 10 is not so hot.

You can buy central AC's at 14 Seer thats hot.

However there are losses with duct work in a central AC that
you dont have in window AC. (depending on duct leaks etc etc.
in the 5 to 10% range...not so good actually)


Window AC's are dirt cheap to install compared to central AC's
and provide good 'zone control' so can be a lot less expensive
to operate than central AC

Home resale will be better with central AC of course.


I realize the comparison is complicated, so assume all other
factors
equal, and assume: the vents and their position for central
air would be
adequate; about half the rooms are normally in use; nobody's
concerned
about the window-view obstruction, etc.; Chicago climate;
poorly
insulated house.

A companion question is, does the efficiency of air
conditioners
increase significantly with size?


No..efficiency goes down with size because its running
partially loaded most of the time. The window AC's will be
most cost effective across the boards especially if you buy
the high efficiency models (and go to heat pump window
AC's)... zone control is a major advantage with multiple
window AC's

Phil Scott
HVAC contractor/ mech engr since 1905



--
|||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev ||||||||||||||||



  #18   Report Post  
PrecisionMachinisT
 
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"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

Phil Scott
HVAC contractor/ mech engr since 1905


So your 100 years old now ??

--

SVL


  #19   Report Post  
Phil Scott
 
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"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in
message ...

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

Phil Scott
HVAC contractor/ mech engr since 1905


So your 100 years old now ??



Satire. Willis Carrier didn't come up with refrigerated
AC until the 1905's or something like that.. Earlier we had
steam jet refrigeration (a high pressure steam venturi side
port, at approx 28" water column (vacuum) was connected to a
large evaporating tank, water evaporate and cooled to 40F or
so and that was pumped around to air coils... prior that that
goes back to BC egypt, importing ice from Mt Kilimanjaro, into
deep caves the cool air circulated through the palace.

The Montgomery Ward Store in Sacramento Calif though had an
ammonia chilled water system as late as 1967 that I am aware
of, it was still operating the last time I worked on it. It
dated from the turn of the century 1915 as a guess.. Two 50
ton baker 200 rpm reciprocating compressors driven by
synchronous DC motors..(multple coils around a rotor, looks
like an old radial airplane motor.)

The Budweiser micro breweries built in the 70's used similar
machines, approx 4,000 tons total of horizontal Baker
reciprocating compressors, 200 RPM DC sychronous motors..
ammonia.

Why you might ask? Ammonia is the most efficient refrigerant
bar none in those temp ranges. by a very wide margin. and
because... volumetric efficiency goes way up with the ultra
long stroke and proportionately reduced head space volume of
those huge slow long stroke compressors. The suction lines on
those plants were 24" main header... 10" to each of the Baker
recips.

Latest addition though were 1000 hp Frick screws (made in
Germany).

These are 3 stage cascade/ compound systems.. two compound
ammonia stages, the lowest stage ammonia evaporator acting as
the condenser for a CO2 system to
minus 110F...(200 hp of Vilter reciprocating compressors, 1750
rpm, 480volt conventional squirel cage motors... all built
nicely into one large machine building ( 300' square approx)
with natural gas fired boilers...so that if there is a
suitably sized ammonia leak, to the explosive limit ranges,
the boiler pilots lite off the vapor cloud and make for
interesting times in the vicinity..releasing about 8,000 lbs
of ammonia to the atmosphere.

The CO2 as liquified at -110F under pressure for use in
carbonating the beer..(not 100% naturally carbonated that
stuff)



With large scale ammonia systems there are issues of liquid
slugs in long suction lines, with pressure behind them and
suction pressures approaching zero psig ahead of them.. slug
velocity can reach over 700 mph. Such a 'slug' of liquid
hits an elbow or end cap and blows it off ... releasing the
entire charge of ammonia to the atmosphere. clearing the
sinuses of a few thousand people it doesnt kill and ****ing
off the local authorities entirely...most older systems were
not built with the super sonic slug scenario in mind.

Now a question? What do you think happens to an all steel
ship, with frozen storage holds 6 decks deep, below the water
level, with only the outside of envelope of the holds
insulated, not the steel plates between the holds...those
welded solid of course across the hull.

Thats exciting.


Phil Scott












Phil Scott


--

SVL




  #20   Report Post  
 
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Noon-Air wrote:

We can't *see* it from here. Call your local, *competent*, licensed,
insured, professionally trained, HVAC technician to do a complete assesment


Try to find one who can spell :-)

"Nehmo" wrote:

If a house currently has multiple window air-conditioners, are these
significantly less efficient than central air, if the house were
retrofitted with it?


Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor, vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a 3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep working.

...about half the rooms are normally in use;


So you might close the doors and only AC those rooms, effectively doubling
the SEER of the window units, compared to central air. An X10 system with
occupancy sensors might do this automatically.

A companion question is, does the efficiency of air conditioners
increase significantly with size?


Yes, by law :-)

Nick



  #21   Report Post  
 
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i used to run 3 6000btu window units and at the time the electric bill
was 125.00 in july. i put in cenral air and the electric bill was 75.00
in august . running the new larger scroll compressor was cheeper than
the 3 compressors in window units, better cooling,and less hassel.lucas

  #22   Report Post  
Noon-Air
 
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"RP" wrote in message
...


TURTLE wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...

Installing central air costs a lot of money. Once it's installed, the
cost of running it is less than the cost of what you have now.
However, it would take more than 30 years to make up the cost. It
could even take more than 100 years. In other words, if it costs you
$1000 a year to run window units and $800 a year to run central air
that's a savings of $200. However, if central air costs $6,000 to
install, it will take 30 years times $200 a year for you to get your
money back.
So if you are comfortable now, don't change. If you are hot now,
consider the money.



This is Turtle.

If you think a standard hvac system would cost about $6K. I need to move
my business to your area and open back up for I like the way you think.


Are you still in the business Turtle? 6K is a normal median price. Some
are less, some more. You can't touch an Infinity system for 6K, nor even
just a 13SEER 410-A over 3.5 tons.

hvacrmedic


Ductwork is extra


  #23   Report Post  
Noon-Air
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"RP" wrote in message
...


RP wrote:



TURTLE wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...

Installing central air costs a lot of money. Once it's installed, the
cost of running it is less than the cost of what you have now.
However, it would take more than 30 years to make up the cost. It
could even take more than 100 years. In other words, if it costs you
$1000 a year to run window units and $800 a year to run central air
that's a savings of $200. However, if central air costs $6,000 to
install, it will take 30 years times $200 a year for you to get your
money back.
So if you are comfortable now, don't change. If you are hot now,
consider the money.



This is Turtle.

If you think a standard hvac system would cost about $6K. I need to move
my business to your area and open back up for I like the way you think.



Are you still in the business Turtle? 6K is a normal median price. Some
are less, some more. You can't touch an Infinity system for 6K, nor even
just a 13SEER 410-A over 3.5 tons.


BTW, given that the OP apparently needs ductwork too, well, Awwwwww

hvacrmedic


Ductwork is extra


  #24   Report Post  
Stormin Mormon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Nevermind move the business, just send me some of your customers.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"TURTLE" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
ups.com...
However, if central air costs $6,000 to
install,


This is Turtle.

If you think a standard hvac system would cost about $6K. I need to move my
business to your area and open back up for I like the way you think.

TURTLE



  #25   Report Post  
Stormin Mormon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The way I figure it, rotary means that the armature and assembly goes
around, rather than recip back and forth. Scroll is one of the types of
rotating compressors.

Though, most guys in the trade would see it your way.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"RP" wrote in message
...


Stormin Mormon wrote:

Window shakers come in assortment of efficiency. But, overall, I believe
that central AC is more efficient.

Please ask your installer for:
* Rotary compressor


If you're shopping for a central AC unit, do not ask for a rotary
compressor. You'll get a curious look from the salesman.
Most geo units and most window units come with rotary compressors,
central units no.
Did you mean *scroll*?

* TXV coil


Yes to this. Demand a TXV coil.


Expect to pay a couple dollars more than a piston compressor and orifice
coil. But, will pay for itself in efficiency.


hvacrmedic




  #26   Report Post  
Noon-Air
 
Posts: n/a
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"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
The way I figure it, rotary means that the armature and assembly goes
around, rather than recip back and forth. Scroll is one of the types of
rotating compressors.

Though, most guys in the trade would see it your way.


If ignorance is bliss Stormy, you must be euphoric.


  #27   Report Post  
B-Hate-Me
 
Posts: n/a
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"Noon-Air" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
The way I figure it, rotary means that the armature and assembly goes
around, rather than recip back and forth. Scroll is one of the types of
rotating compressors.

Though, most guys in the trade would see it your way.


If ignorance is bliss Stormy, you must be euphoric.


If ignorance is baseball, Stormy is Babe Ruth.


  #28   Report Post  
B-Hate-Me
 
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"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Nevermind move the business, just send me some of your customers.


Ya....Send him the one's you hate.


  #29   Report Post  
B-Hate-Me
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
...

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor, vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a 3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply removes the
unit.

2) Noise...Why do you think they are called "window shakers"?

3) Convenience...Twice a year you'll be humpin' those suckers in and out.

4) Money...I don't make any money from window shakers.


  #30   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Window shakers come in assortment of efficiency. But, overall, I believe
that central AC is more efficient.

Please ask your installer for:
* Rotary compressor
* TXV coil

Expect to pay a couple dollars more than a piston compressor and orifice
coil. But, will pay for itself in efficiency.

--

Christopher A. Young



Rotary compressor in a central AC unit?? That I gotta see!
Window shaker or a mini split perhaps, but not on a typical central air.
Greg


This is Turtle.

hey , there was a company that started using rotory compressors in central units
back about 20+ years ago and their name was Fedders corp.. They started putting
the rotory compressors in their central units and due to the 100% failure rate,
they went belly up or bankrupt in 3 years after starting to put them in the
central units.

The problem was this as to the 100% failure rates . The Mass of the shell of the
compressors over 2 1/2 tons was too big to let all the heat out and not heat up
too much and burn it's self up. By Now a days they must have design it right to
do it by now.

TURTLE




  #31   Report Post  
FDR
 
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"Steve Scott" wrote in message
...
California has estimated the average residential duct loss there to be
in the 30% range. Based on what we see in NY that seems reasonable to
me.


Sounds about right. In the winter in NY here the one side of the house
nearest the furnace blows out 120F while the other end of the house blows
out 90F.



On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 00:39:38 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

However there are losses with duct work in a central AC that
you dont have in window AC. (depending on duct leaks etc etc.
in the 5 to 10% range...not so good actually)



--
Never mind the facts - I know what I know






  #32   Report Post  
Banty
 
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In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
...

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor, vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a 3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply removes the
unit.

2) Noise...Why do you think they are called "window shakers"?

3) Convenience...Twice a year you'll be humpin' those suckers in and out.

4) Money...I don't make any money from window shakers.



How about if they're mounted in the wall?

Banty

  #33   Report Post  
Stormin Mormon
 
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I thought they were supposed to cool partly account of the refrigerant going
through. Though, such a system might trap the heat in. I've seen compressor
blankets, now. I bet those totlaly depend on refrigerant flow for cooling.

Wonder if the failure rate you saw was the warmer southern climate, or mabye
someone before your time didn't do much coil cleaning?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"TURTLE" wrote in message
. ..


This is Turtle.

hey , there was a company that started using rotory compressors in central
units
back about 20+ years ago and their name was Fedders corp.. They started
putting
the rotory compressors in their central units and due to the 100% failure
rate,
they went belly up or bankrupt in 3 years after starting to put them in the
central units.

The problem was this as to the 100% failure rates . The Mass of the shell of
the
compressors over 2 1/2 tons was too big to let all the heat out and not heat
up
too much and burn it's self up. By Now a days they must have design it right
to
do it by now.

TURTLE



  #34   Report Post  
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
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On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
...

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor, vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a 3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply removes the
unit.


Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

2) Noise...Why do you think they are called "window shakers"?


Mere derogation. They can in fact be very VERY quiet.

3) Convenience...Twice a year you'll be humpin' those suckers in and out.


And on your birthday ? But seriously - no need for that at
all. A simple winter cover works just fine.


4) Money...I don't make any money from window shakers.


Oh well.




How about if they're mounted in the wall?

Banty


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  #35   Report Post  
udarrell
 
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Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
...


Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor, vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a 3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply removes the
unit.


You can put locks on the windows so they can't raise them. With locks,
it wouldn't be easy to get one out without making a lot of racket.

2) Noise...Why do you think they are called "window shakers"?


I bought a Whirlpool Quiet Partner Series; it is very quite. It is in
the window of the living room where I watch TV; the one I had there was
noisy and interfered with TV enjoyment!

3) Convenience...Twice a year you'll be humpin' those suckers in and out.


My two are each 6000-Btu/hr or less; easy to install; some leave the
bigger units in the window the year round.

4) Money...I don't make any money from window shakers.


I agree with you on the money point.
I also love to see and feel the performance of a central system that is
really delivering to its rated Btu/hr specs.

How about if they're mounted in the wall?
Banty

- udarrell

--
Factors in the Correct Sizing of Residential Air Conditioning Systems -
Recommended Procedures for Proper Duct Sizing of Residential Air Conditioning Systems
http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_b...syste ms.html


  #36   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
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"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
"Are you still in the business Turtle? 6K is a normal median price.
Some
are less, some more. You can't touch an Infinity system for 6K, nor
even
just a 13SEER 410-A over 3.5 tons. "

And of course it all depends on where you're starting from. If the
house has a modern forced air heating system, it;s one thing. If it
has hot water heat, then it's a different story.


Yeah lotsa hot water heating systems in Louisiana is my bet.

--

SVL


This is Turtle.

I see the ones here speaking has stars in their eyes of what they think the
Oakdale, La. 71463 HVAC service company makes money wise. There is 2 of the 5
service and installer companys in town that thinks changing out a 5 ton
condenser for a job at cost + $125.00 = the job done. $885.00 sales tax included
for a Evcon / Luxaire / York. I bid $1,500.00 in Rheem and $1,275.00 in Goodman.
The other bidder told the preacher that i was a ripping the church off by
wanting these high prices. The sad part here is the preacher believed him but
the other fellow would not come back to fix the job with a freezing up expanion
valve problem. They called me to come fix the mess up and i told the Preacher it
would be $200.00 to fix it. he said that seemed way to high to fix it. i said
then you know it could run $300.00 or so the more I think about it. I went a
head and did it for $225.00 but i will never get use to Idiots in the customer
base.

3 of the 5 service companys have other jobs and suppliment their income with
hvac work. There is only 2 companys that do this full time for a living, Myself
and one other. If you want to work residentiual jobs. You have to put up with a
fellows who thinks Cost + $125.00 for condenser units and Cost + $250.00 for
complete system change outs [ furnace , coil, and condenser ].

I thought about moving years ago but did not for some reason.

TURTLE


  #37   Report Post  
Noon-Air
 
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"B-Hate-Me" BHateMe@home wrote in message
...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
The way I figure it, rotary means that the armature and assembly goes
around, rather than recip back and forth. Scroll is one of the types of
rotating compressors.

Though, most guys in the trade would see it your way.


If ignorance is bliss Stormy, you must be euphoric.


If ignorance is baseball, Stormy is Babe Ruth.


Bad analogy....Babe Ruth also struck out more often than anybody else too.


  #38   Report Post  
udarrell
 
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Nehmo wrote:

If a house currently has multiple window air-conditioners, are these
significantly less efficient than central air, if the house were
retrofitted with it? (NO)

I realize the comparison is complicated, so assume all other factors
equal, and assume: the vents and their position for central air would be
adequate; "about half the rooms are normally in use;" nobody's concerned
about the window-view obstruction, etc.; Chicago climate; poorly
insulated house. (Just cool the rooms you use.)

A companion question is, does the efficiency of air conditioners
increase significantly with size? (NO!)


In your situation, I would improve the insulation situation and do
everything possible to the windows and doors to reduce the heatgain.
Also, do everything possible to reduce air infiltration.

Then I would go with the newer smaller 6000-Btu/hr quiet window units;
like the Whirpool Quiet Partner Series with electronic cordless controls.
Using a "Wind Machine 3300 | 20" fan," my little 6000 room A/C cools
920-sq. ft., three open rooms and part of the hall in 100-degree high
humidity 112 to 116-heat index weather, --to 78-F or under and 55 or
less percent relative humidity; very comfortable. Read my linked page
on how that works:

newhttp://www.udarrell.com/aircondition...harting.h tml


My July electric bill was $45.10; I have an electric hot water heater,
electric range, a refrigerator, two TVs and a PC.
I never use my old clothes dryer.

My upstairs unit is a Kenmore Cool 'N' Lite 5,950-btuh window A/C, by
using another 20" floor fan on low speed, it cools one bedroom, the
hallway, stairwell, and the bathroom.

I have central oil heat in a two-story home with a deep basement that
was built in May of 1937, 68 years ago. The duct system was installed
for a gravity airflow wood fired furnace. - udarrell - Darrell

--
Factors in the Correct Sizing of Residential Air Conditioning Systems -
Recommended Procedures for Proper Duct Sizing of Residential Air Conditioning Systems
http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_b...syste ms.html
  #39   Report Post  
udarrell
 
Posts: n/a
Default

TURTLE wrote:

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...


wrote in message
roups.com...


"Are you still in the business Turtle? 6K is a normal median price.
Some
are less, some more. You can't touch an Infinity system for 6K, nor
even
just a 13SEER 410-A over 3.5 tons. "

And of course it all depends on where you're starting from. If the
house has a modern forced air heating system, it;s one thing. If it
has hot water heat, then it's a different story.



Yeah lotsa hot water heating systems in Louisiana is my bet.

--

SVL




This is Turtle.

I see the ones here speaking has stars in their eyes of what they think the
Oakdale, La. 71463 HVAC service company makes money wise. There is 2 of the 5
service and installer companys in town that thinks changing out a 5 ton
condenser for a job at cost + $125.00 = the job done. $885.00 sales tax included
for a Evcon / Luxaire / York. I bid $1,500.00 in Rheem and $1,275.00 in Goodman.
The other bidder told the preacher that i was a ripping the church off by
wanting these high prices. The sad part here is the preacher believed him but
the other fellow would not come back to fix the job with a freezing up expanion
valve problem. They called me to come fix the mess up and i told the Preacher it
would be $200.00 to fix it. he said that seemed way to high to fix it. i said
then you know it could run $300.00 or so the more I think about it. I went a
head and did it for $225.00 but i will never get use to Idiots in the customer
base.

3 of the 5 service companys have other jobs and suppliment their income with
hvac work. There is only 2 companys that do this full time for a living, Myself
and one other. If you want to work residentiual jobs. You have to put up with a
fellows who thinks Cost + $125.00 for condenser units and Cost + $250.00 for
complete system change outs [ furnace , coil, and condenser ].

I thought about moving years ago but did not for some reason.
TURTLE


Turtle, I think you should have moved. You need to get paid for you hard
work and years of experience.

In hot (& humid) climates with long cooling seasons I wish every county
government, utilizing the power companies, would fund an Energy Audit
campaign to reduce the massive waste of energy in America. (That ought
to get some feathers ruffled.) - udarrell - Darrell

--
Factors in the Correct Sizing of Residential Air Conditioning Systems -
Recommended Procedures for Proper Duct Sizing of Residential Air Conditioning Systems
http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_b...syste ms.html

INTRODUCTION TO TOTAL COOLING PERFORMANCE;
how installing a 3-ton system can become a 1.5-ton system of actual
delivered cooling (SURPRISE!):

http://epb1.lbl.gov/residential/cool.html
  #40   Report Post  
TURTLE
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I thought they were supposed to cool partly account of the refrigerant going
through. Though, such a system might trap the heat in. I've seen compressor
blankets, now. I bet those totlaly depend on refrigerant flow for cooling.

Wonder if the failure rate you saw was the warmer southern climate, or mabye
someone before your time didn't do much coil cleaning?

--

Christopher A. Young


This is Turtle.

the Heat was generated in the shell of the compressor by the rotor and not as it
was leaving the compressor like Scroll or piston. No Stormy Poor Design.

No Stormy , you don't have a 100% failure rate caused by too hot of weather or
not cleaning the condenser. Most of the failures were the first time the system
had a run 12 hours straight without turning it off to cool off. i changed one
out under warranty for a chicken place here and in about a month later the
rotory compressor went out again. Fedders told use to have it fixed and send the
bill to a law firm in New York and see if they would get paid. The customer just
bought a new condenser and forgot about it for Fedders being in bankruptsy court
and all.

No i did not sell it to him for he work for a chicken fast food chain call
Fatsos Fried Chicken and had a deal cut to buy wholesale of all the hvac
equipment and get their installer to put it.

TURTLE


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