Sticking to the question and ignoring my personal opinions:
This would take an electrical engineer doing calculations to get an
accurate answer. There are many variables, the most important of which is
the size of the house in question. The answer would be different for an 1800
sq ft ranch than it would be for a 4000 sq ft, 2 story house.
A typical central air compressor runs on a 30 amp circuit, a typical window
unit on a 15 amp. The majority of the electricity used occurs when either
unit kicks on. So in either case if the units run longer and start up less
often the efficiencies rise. Poorly sized central units "short cycle" and
that condition greatly decreases the cost efficiency. Same is true of the
window units. A larger house would require two or more compressors.
In addition, central air systems require an air handler. Once again, the
answer will be different if the house already has hot air heat and the A/C
coil is just going to be added to it rather than a new, separate air handle
installed just for the A/C. Air handlers typically run on a 15 amp circuit.
Once again, one or two depending on the size of the house.
So every time the central unit kicks on you've got juice running the
compressors and the air handlers with the total draw being a complex
calculation of the total wattage required, the initial startup surge, and
the steady run-time usage.
The window units do the same, but the combined wattage would need to meet or
exceed the central unit to use the same amount of juice.
You buy central air for convenience, comfort, and prestige. Forget about the
payback. That comes when it's time to sell the house.

"Nehmo" wrote in message
...
If a house currently has multiple window air-conditioners, are these
significantly less efficient than central air, if the house were
retrofitted with it?

I realize the comparison is complicated, so assume all other factors
equal, and assume: the vents and their position for central air would be
adequate; about half the rooms are normally in use; nobody's concerned
about the window-view obstruction, etc.; Chicago climate; poorly
insulated house.

A companion question is, does the efficiency of air conditioners
increase significantly with size?

--
|||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev ||||||||||||||||

"TURTLE" wrote in message
. ..

"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote
in message ...
Window shakers come in assortment of efficiency. But,
overall, I believe
that central AC is more efficient.

Please ask your installer for:
* Rotary compressor
* TXV coil

Expect to pay a couple dollars more than a piston
compressor and orifice
coil. But, will pay for itself in efficiency.

--

Christopher A. Young


Rotary compressor in a central AC unit?? That I gotta see!

In 1960 GE made its first rotary (roller/vane type, I dont
think it was a rotary vane, but a roller thats why it is so
dependable, the vane moves in and out..thats it, it does not
scrape on on a rotating surface) compressor for split system
AC units in the under 2 ton range. Bullet proof. My RV has
one of those in its rooftop AC from the look of it.

the Daikin brand (japanese) split system heat pumps used a
roller type as well. Those went up to 5 tons ( and 4 or 5
indoor coils )

I think scroll compressors have problems in the smaller sizes
because of manufacturing tolerance issues...in larger
compressors the same tolerance limitations create less of a
loss of efficiency (pressure leaks past the scroll)... I
havent paid any attention to how small a scroll compressor is
made but it seems like 3 tons?


Phil Scott




Window shaker or a mini split perhaps, but not on a typical
central air.
Greg

This is Turtle.

hey , there was a company that started using rotory
compressors in central units back about 20+ years ago and
their name was Fedders corp.. They started putting the
rotory compressors in their central units and due to the
100% failure rate, they went belly up or bankrupt in 3 years
after starting to put them in the central units.

The problem was this as to the 100% failure rates . The Mass
of the shell of the compressors over 2 1/2 tons was too big
to let all the heat out and not heat up too much and burn
it's self up. By Now a days they must have design it right
to do it by now.

TURTLE

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty wrote:
4) Money...I don't make any money from window shakers.

Oh well.

Point #4 is my only gripe....The rest is just sales bull****.

"Steve Scott" wrote in message
...
California has estimated the average residential duct loss
there to be
in the 30% range. Based on what we see in NY that seems
reasonable to
me.

ASHRAE suggests one use 5- 10% for duct loss. and mentions
that due to *air leakage*. It is interesting that you dont
see thermal conductance loss through the air ducts thin
insulation mentioned more often...or for that matter through a
packaged units ultra thin evap coil/ blower cabinet
insulation. I think the ASHRAE 5 to 10% factor must include
that.


Phil Scott


On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 00:39:38 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

However there are losses with duct work in a central AC that
you dont have in window AC. (depending on duct leaks etc
etc.
in the 5 to 10% range...not so good actually)


--
Never mind the facts - I know what I know

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 14:56:59 -0400, "BP" wrote:

Sticking to the question and ignoring my personal opinions:
This would take an electrical engineer doing calculations to get an
accurate answer.

Sticking to people who actually know something about HVAC,
STFU.


Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

"udarrell" wrote in message
...
TURTLE wrote:

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
groups.com...

"Are you still in the business Turtle? 6K is a normal median price.
Some
are less, some more. You can't touch an Infinity system for 6K, nor
even
just a 13SEER 410-A over 3.5 tons. "

And of course it all depends on where you're starting from. If the
house has a modern forced air heating system, it;s one thing. If it
has hot water heat, then it's a different story.


Yeah lotsa hot water heating systems in Louisiana is my bet.

--

SVL



This is Turtle.

I see the ones here speaking has stars in their eyes of what they think the
Oakdale, La. 71463 HVAC service company makes money wise. There is 2 of the 5
service and installer companys in town that thinks changing out a 5 ton
condenser for a job at cost + $125.00 = the job done. $885.00 sales tax
included for a Evcon / Luxaire / York. I bid $1,500.00 in Rheem and $1,275.00
in Goodman. The other bidder told the preacher that i was a ripping the church
off by wanting these high prices. The sad part here is the preacher believed
him but the other fellow would not come back to fix the job with a freezing up
expanion valve problem. They called me to come fix the mess up and i told the
Preacher it would be $200.00 to fix it. he said that seemed way to high to fix
it. i said then you know it could run $300.00 or so the more I think about it.
I went a head and did it for $225.00 but i will never get use to Idiots in the
customer base.

3 of the 5 service companys have other jobs and suppliment their income with
hvac work. There is only 2 companys that do this full time for a living,
Myself and one other. If you want to work residentiual jobs. You have to put
up with a fellows who thinks Cost + $125.00 for condenser units and Cost +
$250.00 for complete system change outs [ furnace , coil, and condenser ].

I thought about moving years ago but did not for some reason.
TURTLE
Turtle, I think you should have moved. You need to get paid for you hard work
and years of experience.

In hot (& humid) climates with long cooling seasons I wish every county
government, utilizing the power companies, would fund an Energy Audit campaign
to reduce the massive waste of energy in America. (That ought to get some
feathers ruffled.) - udarrell - Darrell
--
Factors in the Correct Sizing of Residential Air Conditioning Systems -
Recommended Procedures for Proper Duct Sizing of Residential Air Conditioning
Systems
http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_b...syste ms.html

INTRODUCTION TO TOTAL COOLING PERFORMANCE; how installing a 3-ton system can
become a 1.5-ton system of actual
delivered cooling (SURPRISE!):

http://epb1.lbl.gov/residential/cool.html

This is Turtle.

The ideal of getting the hvac system to working right by a engery program would
be a good ideal for here laterly about 1 in 5 calls of hvac trouble is too much
freon in the system. They gas them up in cool weather and when it gets hot. They
will stop working for too much freon in them.

TURTLE

"B-Hate-Me" BHateMe@home wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Nevermind move the business, just send me some of your customers.

Ya....Send him the one's you hate.

Just send him some....Turtle deals with ****ers too stupid to care who works
on their ****, and Chris is perfect for ****ing them out of every damn
dollar they make..

Chris and Terry are the reasons that the general public looks down on the
HVAC biz as a whole....they dont know what they are doing, cant repair
anything, and when they do, they have to ask what kind of freaking CLEANER
to use, after making wild claims about being in the trade since they were
SIX.
Terrys dad should have been locked up due to child labor laws....or at
least, for making such a stupid ****er in the first place.

In article ,
says...

I dont' mind of you 'piggyback' off my post, this being USENET and all. But it
does appear that I've made the statements you're responding to, but you and I
were both responding to "nickanspam"

Please try an avoid that.

- B

On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
...

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor, vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a 3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply removes the
unit.

Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

2) Noise...Why do you think they are called "window shakers"?

Mere derogation. They can in fact be very VERY quiet.

3) Convenience...Twice a year you'll be humpin' those suckers in and out.

And on your birthday ? But seriously - no need for that at
all. A simple winter cover works just fine.


4) Money...I don't make any money from window shakers.

Oh well.




How about if they're mounted in the wall?

Banty

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On 6 Aug 2005 12:51:54 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article ,
says...

I dont' mind of you 'piggyback' off my post, this being USENET and all. But it
does appear that I've made the statements you're responding to, but you and I
were both responding to "nickanspam"

Please try an avoid that.

Sorry. FWIW, Nick the space cadet is in my kill file, so I
don't have to see his absurdities.


- B

On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
...

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor, vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a 3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply removes the
unit.

Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

2) Noise...Why do you think they are called "window shakers"?

Mere derogation. They can in fact be very VERY quiet.

3) Convenience...Twice a year you'll be humpin' those suckers in and out.

And on your birthday ? But seriously - no need for that at
all. A simple winter cover works just fine.


4) Money...I don't make any money from window shakers.

Oh well.




How about if they're mounted in the wall?

Banty

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

"BP" wrote in message
...
Sticking to the question and ignoring my personal opinions:
This would take an electrical engineer doing calculations to get an
accurate answer. There are many variables, the most important of which is
the size of the house in question. The answer would be different for an
1800
sq ft ranch than it would be for a 4000 sq ft, 2 story house.
A typical central air compressor runs on a 30 amp circuit, a typical
window
unit on a 15 amp. The majority of the electricity used occurs when either
unit kicks on. So in either case if the units run longer and start up less
often the efficiencies rise. Poorly sized central units "short cycle" and
that condition greatly decreases the cost efficiency. Same is true of the
window units. A larger house would require two or more compressors.
In addition, central air systems require an air handler. Once again, the
answer will be different if the house already has hot air heat and the A/C
coil is just going to be added to it rather than a new, separate air
handle
installed just for the A/C. Air handlers typically run on a 15 amp
circuit.
Once again, one or two depending on the size of the house.
So every time the central unit kicks on you've got juice running the
compressors and the air handlers with the total draw being a complex
calculation of the total wattage required, the initial startup surge, and
the steady run-time usage.
The window units do the same, but the combined wattage would need to meet
or exceed the central unit to use the same amount of juice.
You buy central air for convenience, comfort, and prestige. Forget about
the payback. That comes when it's time to sell the house.

"Nehmo" wrote in message
...
If a house currently has multiple window air-conditioners, are these
significantly less efficient than central air, if the house were
retrofitted with it?

I realize the comparison is complicated, so assume all other factors
equal, and assume: the vents and their position for central air would be
adequate; about half the rooms are normally in use; nobody's concerned
about the window-view obstruction, etc.; Chicago climate; poorly
insulated house.


NOW YOU TALKING MY LANGUAGE
Dido siad that


A companion question is, does the efficiency of air conditioners
increase significantly with size?

--
|||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev ||||||||||||||||

Yeah, *Cough* OK.
This is usenet, son. We have to put up with all sorts of dickheads here.


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 14:56:59 -0400, "BP" wrote:

Sticking to the question and ignoring my personal opinions:
This would take an electrical engineer doing calculations to get an
accurate answer.

Sticking to people who actually know something about HVAC,
STFU.


Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

BP wrote:

This would take an electrical engineer doing calculations to get an
accurate answer.

I'm an EE. You got my calcs.

Nick

On 6 Aug 2005 17:37:18 -0400, wrote:

BP wrote:

This would take an electrical engineer doing calculations to get an
accurate answer.

I'm an EE. You got my calcs.

Nick

And as soon as we stop laughing, we'll get back to you on that
......


Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"B-Hate-Me" BHateMe@home wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Nevermind move the business, just send me some of your customers.

Ya....Send him the one's you hate.

Just send him some....Turtle deals with ****ers too stupid to care who works
on their ****, and Chris is perfect for ****ing them out of every damn dollar
they make..

Chris and Terry are the reasons that the general public looks down on the HVAC
biz as a whole....they dont know what they are doing, cant repair anything,
and when they do, they have to ask what kind of freaking CLEANER to use, after
making wild claims about being in the trade since they were SIX.
Terrys dad should have been locked up due to child labor laws....or at least,
for making such a stupid ****er in the first place.


This is Turtle.

If it was a crime of being a Asshole and lier. You surely would be in jail.

i8've got a question for you. Where do you get al this hate from for i have not
seen anybody with better hatred than you is Paul. Now he has settled down , so I
guess your the biggest Hatred Fellow around. Give me some more of that hatred
for your good at it. Do you work for a living or just hate all day ?

TURTLE

"TURTLE" wrote in message
.. .

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"B-Hate-Me" BHateMe@home wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Nevermind move the business, just send me some of your customers.

Ya....Send him the one's you hate.

Just send him some....Turtle deals with ****ers too stupid to care who
works on their ****, and Chris is perfect for ****ing them out of every
damn dollar they make..

Chris and Terry are the reasons that the general public looks down on the
HVAC biz as a whole....they dont know what they are doing, cant repair
anything, and when they do, they have to ask what kind of freaking
CLEANER to use, after making wild claims about being in the trade since
they were SIX.
Terrys dad should have been locked up due to child labor laws....or at
least, for making such a stupid ****er in the first place.


This is Turtle.

If it was a crime of being a Asshole and lier. You surely would be in
jail.

Asshole, yes.
Liar? No.


i8've got a question for you. Where do you get al this hate from for i
have not seen anybody with better hatred than you is Paul. Now he has
settled down , so I guess your the biggest Hatred Fellow around. Give me
some more of that hatred for your good at it.

I dont hate you Terry..I feel real sorry that you are so ****ing stupid, and
that you have customers that dont know any better.


Do you work for a living or just hate all day ?

Umm....think about it guy...I work. Im a working owner, meaning if I want to
go to CA and play, I can..since I still own a home there.
I also can send first year techs out that have more credibility and
training than you do, and still make a living.


TURTLE

"TURTLE" wrote in message
.. .

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"B-Hate-Me" BHateMe@home wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Nevermind move the business, just send me some of your customers.

Ya....Send him the one's you hate.

Just send him some....Turtle deals with ****ers too stupid to care who
works
on their ****, and Chris is perfect for ****ing them out of every damn
dollar
they make..

Chris and Terry are the reasons that the general public looks down on
the HVAC
biz as a whole....they dont know what they are doing, cant repair
anything,
and when they do, they have to ask what kind of freaking CLEANER to use,
after
making wild claims about being in the trade since they were SIX.
Terrys dad should have been locked up due to child labor laws....or at
least,
for making such a stupid ****er in the first place.


This is Turtle.

If it was a crime of being a Asshole and lier. You surely would be in
jail.

i8've got a question for you. Where do you get al this hate from for i
have not
seen anybody with better hatred than you is Paul. Now he has settled down
, so I
guess your the biggest Hatred Fellow around. Give me some more of that
hatred
for your good at it. Do you work for a living or just hate all day ?

TURTLE

I know you've got issues with Paul and a couple of the minions (doh!),
but if you take up with Stormy who is a troll by way of being mentally
incompetent, you stand to lose a lot of respect from people in the group I
fear. You are judged by the company you keep Paul & others may be assholes
but they are not deviants although I can't prove it. I don't know why that
idiot bites my craw but he does and he is not contributing anything of value
to this newsgroup (my opinion). In fact I believe, he will see the gates of
hell long before Paul gets done telling Saint Peter to Blow Him...

Please don't encourage Stormy to post to this group. He needs to
listen and learn allot more about HVAC before opening his mouth to give
advice.

Again just my opinion, Joseph

Maybe there really is no Carolina Breeze company? Maybe it's just some
unhappy welfare guy posting on a computer, and piecing together a website
from images stolen off the net.

There was a scam going in the Texas prisons some years ago about smuggling
in postal money orders that they changed to make them read $700. BS some
poor outsider, and then they would mail the money order to the outsider, who
would cash it and put the money in the inmate's account. But the prisoner
had to BS the outsider how much money he had, and how much acres, and how
many employees. Maybe one of them got a computer? We supposed to be cashing
money orders for Sea Weed?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"TURTLE" wrote in message
.. .

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
Just send him some....Turtle deals with ****ers too stupid to care who
works
on their ****, and Chris is perfect for ****ing them out of every damn
dollar
they make..

Chris and Terry are the reasons that the general public looks down on the
HVAC
biz as a whole....they dont know what they are doing, cant repair
anything,
and when they do, they have to ask what kind of freaking CLEANER to use,
after
making wild claims about being in the trade since they were SIX.
Terrys dad should have been locked up due to child labor laws....or at
least,
for making such a stupid ****er in the first place.


This is Turtle.

If it was a crime of being a Asshole and lier. You surely would be in jail.

i8've got a question for you. Where do you get al this hate from for i have
not
seen anybody with better hatred than you is Paul. Now he has settled down ,
so I
guess your the biggest Hatred Fellow around. Give me some more of that
hatred
for your good at it. Do you work for a living or just hate all day ?

TURTLE

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 12:27:19 -0500, udarrell
wrote:

Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
...


Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor, vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a 3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply removes the
unit.


You can put locks on the windows so they can't raise them. With locks,
it wouldn't be easy to get one out without making a lot of racket.

2) Noise...Why do you think they are called "window shakers"?


I bought a Whirlpool Quiet Partner Series; it is very quite. It is in
the window of the living room where I watch TV; the one I had there was
noisy and interfered with TV enjoyment!

3) Convenience...Twice a year you'll be humpin' those suckers in and out.


My two are each 6000-Btu/hr or less; easy to install; some leave the
bigger units in the window the year round.

4) Money...I don't make any money from window shakers.


I agree with you on the money point.
I also love to see and feel the performance of a central system that is
really delivering to its rated Btu/hr specs.

How about if they're mounted in the wall?
Banty

- udarrell

I bought a very high efficiency 11 EER 6000 btu window unit to
supplement the central trane unit.

My summer time electric bill in Houston dropped from 410 to 247.

In Chicago, you would never cost justify a central unit over window
units, but I'd still get one just for the convenience and comfort.

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...


This is Turtle.

If it was a crime of being a Asshole and lier. You surely would be in jail.

Asshole, yes.
Liar? No.


i8've got a question for you. Where do you get al this hate from for i have
not seen anybody with better hatred than you is Paul. Now he has settled down
, so I guess your the biggest Hatred Fellow around. Give me some more of that
hatred for your good at it.

I dont hate you Terry..I feel real sorry that you are so ****ing stupid, and
that you have customers that dont know any better.


Do you work for a living or just hate all day ?

Umm....think about it guy...I work. Im a working owner, meaning if I want to
go to CA and play, I can..since I still own a home there.
I also can send first year techs out that have more credibility and training
than you do, and still make a living.


This is Turtle.

I am impressed with your abilitys that you state above and it must be nice
living on easy street as you say , BUT. I too am a small HVAC/R business
owner for the last 20 years and 20 years before that I worked in the hvac/r
field , which comes to over 40 years in the business. I'm now looking to retire
at 55 years of age and enjoy life some before I go. I have done good in the
HVAC/R business and it has treated me well. Now Education wise , I have a Voc
Tech Degree [ Louisiana State Owned School ] T. H. Harris Voc Tech School in [
Non-Destructiable testing ] X-Ray of Metal and ultrasonic testing of metal
flaws. Have 96 hours in Industrial management from Louisiana State University
which i need 127 hour to finish. I run out of money and federal government had
or was just getting started with loaning money to students and program had not
got started yet in my area. So My education was just mininal at best. So this
just about sume it up as to me.

Then a Rookie hvac Business owner comes along and call this person ****ing
Stupid !

Then this Rookie hvac business owner says he is a Asshole. In the HVAC business
if you get a Asshole working for you. You better get rid of him for he will
loose a bunch of customers with his mouth. OH yea, in this part of the country a
asshole and a low life are the same.

Then this Rookie hvac business owner expresses the most hatred that any man can
express to another person over the internet . Then in the same conversation he
says he feel sorry for this person ! In my part of the country this is called a
lie , but your area of business or part of the country you can lie like this and
not be called on it because it is commonly accepted to lie in your business.

Let me let you in on a little thing here. Steve your nothing more than a puffed
up Ego with a problem with being nobody in the business world. I know i'm a
nobody but you don't know your a nobody or will not accept you being a nobody.
You can bost all you want but no one gives a rates ass as to you being a
somebody.

So What I think is your just another computor Geek wanting to be somebody. Knock
your self out.

TURTLE

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Maybe there really is no Carolina Breeze company? Maybe it's just some
unhappy welfare guy posting on a computer, and piecing together a website
from images stolen off the net.

Maybe, you need to learn how to look it up...
State website....and there are others that you can look it up and find out
its real cocksucker.

Sorry...its amazing to think that you are that stupid. Particularly when
some of the customers I have , have actually posted in here before.
Have at it Chris....at least the TV spot we did on the local news wasnt us
running out and crying to mommy that we cut ourselves trying to **** up a
perfectly good refrig fan motor....hint hint....


There was a scam going in the Texas prisons some years ago about smuggling
in postal money orders that they changed to make them read $700. BS some
poor outsider, and then they would mail the money order to the outsider,
who
would cash it and put the money in the inmate's account. But the prisoner
had to BS the outsider how much money he had, and how much acres, and how
many employees. Maybe one of them got a computer? We supposed to be
cashing
money orders for Sea Weed?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"TURTLE" wrote in message
.. .

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
Just send him some....Turtle deals with ****ers too stupid to care who
works
on their ****, and Chris is perfect for ****ing them out of every damn
dollar
they make..

Chris and Terry are the reasons that the general public looks down on the
HVAC
biz as a whole....they dont know what they are doing, cant repair
anything,
and when they do, they have to ask what kind of freaking CLEANER to use,
after
making wild claims about being in the trade since they were SIX.
Terrys dad should have been locked up due to child labor laws....or at
least,
for making such a stupid ****er in the first place.


This is Turtle.

If it was a crime of being a Asshole and lier. You surely would be in
jail.

i8've got a question for you. Where do you get al this hate from for i
have
not
seen anybody with better hatred than you is Paul. Now he has settled down
,
so I
guess your the biggest Hatred Fellow around. Give me some more of that
hatred
for your good at it. Do you work for a living or just hate all day ?

TURTLE

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
...

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor, vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a 3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply removes the
unit.

Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com )

This is Turtle.

Earth to Trailor house Paul. i see you did not know about Theif 101 on the
street. All you do to break in a place with window shackers is to take crow bar
and lift the window slide up about 1 or 2 inches and then let the window unit
fall out the window and hit the ground. Then watch the cord still being plugged
in but just stand on the window shacker to climb in the wide open window where
the window unit use to be.

Yea, Kicking in Steel Doors with steel frames with Dead Bold Locks now a days
are real easy to kick in.

TURTLE

"Joseph" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
.. .

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"B-Hate-Me" BHateMe@home wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Nevermind move the business, just send me some of your customers.

Ya....Send him the one's you hate.

Just send him some....Turtle deals with ****ers too stupid to care who
works
on their ****, and Chris is perfect for ****ing them out of every damn
dollar
they make..

Chris and Terry are the reasons that the general public looks down on
the HVAC
biz as a whole....they dont know what they are doing, cant repair
anything,
and when they do, they have to ask what kind of freaking CLEANER to use,
after
making wild claims about being in the trade since they were SIX.
Terrys dad should have been locked up due to child labor laws....or at
least,
for making such a stupid ****er in the first place.


This is Turtle.

If it was a crime of being a Asshole and lier. You surely would be in
jail.

i8've got a question for you. Where do you get al this hate from for i
have not
seen anybody with better hatred than you is Paul. Now he has settled down
, so I
guess your the biggest Hatred Fellow around. Give me some more of that
hatred
for your good at it. Do you work for a living or just hate all day ?

TURTLE

I know you've got issues with Paul and a couple of the minions (doh!),
but if you take up with Stormy who is a troll by way of being mentally
incompetent, you stand to lose a lot of respect from people in the group I
fear. You are judged by the company you keep Paul & others may be assholes
but they are not deviants although I can't prove it. I don't know why that
idiot bites my craw but he does and he is not contributing anything of value
to this newsgroup (my opinion). In fact I believe, he will see the gates of
hell long before Paul gets done telling Saint Peter to Blow Him...

Please don't encourage Stormy to post to this group. He needs to
listen and learn allot more about HVAC before opening his mouth to give
advice.

Again just my opinion, Joseph


This is Turtle.

Joseph , E-mail me and I can speak openly. I don't think I have your address .
My addy on the group is good.

TURTLE

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...



Now a question? What do you think happens to an all steel ship, with
frozen storage holds 6 decks deep, below the water level, with only the
outside of envelope of the holds insulated, not the steel plates between
the holds...those welded solid of course across the hull.

Thats exciting.


Phil Scott



No it's not. What thrills you about modern steels used at low temperatures?
It's an everyday occurance. Don't be so afraid.

JTMcC.

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 17:37:18 -0400, wrote:

BP wrote:

This would take an electrical engineer doing calculations to get an
accurate answer.

I'm an EE. You got my calcs.

Nick

And as soon as we stop laughing, we'll get back to you on that
.....

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com )

This is Turtle.

First We ain't laughing , and second what is not true about the statement that
was made.

TURTLE

Wonder if he's really a HVAC guy? Might be a teenage bag boy at Krogers?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"TURTLE" wrote in message
...


So What I think is your just another computor Geek wanting to be somebody.
Knock
your self out.

TURTLE

"JTMcC" wrote in message
news

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...



Now a question? What do you think happens to an all steel ship, with
frozen storage holds 6 decks deep, below the water level, with only the
outside of envelope of the holds insulated, not the steel plates between
the holds...those welded solid of course across the hull.

Thats exciting.


Phil Scott



No it's not. What thrills you about modern steels used at low
temperatures? It's an everyday occurance. Don't be so afraid.

JTMcC.

Exciting is breaking 10 feet thick, multi-year ice with a steel ship hull in
the Arctic.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 02:02:27 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

(lots of other good stuff snipped)

slug
velocity can reach over 700 mph.


Hard to believe, but conceivable.

Kinda like water hammer on steroids. :-)

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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 01:17:40 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Expect to pay a couple dollars more than a piston compressor and
orifice coil. But, will pay for itself in efficiency.

I can't afford one with my ex-pension,
as I am confined to orifice work. I guess
I'll just have to settle for a ****ed-in unit.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 7.1

iQA/AwUBQvan2wIk7T39FC4ZEQLspQCgthhh8q9pDjqpBCRHyYvEXW +o+EwAn2VP
hgj9NGRCMgXi3u1fQYAw0uui
=PBJQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 20:08:41 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 02:02:27 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

(lots of other good stuff snipped)

slug
velocity can reach over 700 mph.


Hard to believe, but conceivable.

It doesn't Mach any difference.



Kinda like water hammer on steroids. :-)

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Version: PGP 7.1

iQA/AwUBQvakEwIk7T39FC4ZEQLaJACg/1ild3wmDxPF44nW95AuvKpNa3gAnA/0
8sziXWeY2RlsF6oXM8jmT+ai
=95hx
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

Maybe there really is no Carolina Breeze company? Maybe it's just some
unhappy welfare guy posting on a computer, and piecing together a website
from images stolen off the net.

....LOL...

Well, could be...I spose.....

But if it is, then man I GOTTA tell you he's REALLY got this 'fake hvac
business illusion' thing down pat !!!

I mean....I call the phone number.......and I give the nice lady a good part
number, some credit info and a shipping address....and then the part just
kinda MAGICALLY ARRIVES here within just a few days.........

--

SVL

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
...

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor,
vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a
3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply removes
the
unit.

Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com )

This is Turtle.

Earth to Trailor house Paul. i see you did not know about Theif 101 on the
street. All you do to break in a place with window shackers is to take
crow bar and lift the window slide up about 1 or 2 inches and then let the
window unit fall out the window and hit the ground. Then watch the cord
still being plugged in but just stand on the window shacker to climb in
the wide open window where the window unit use to be.

So you are saying that those times you DO install a window unit, you dont
secure it properly??

Amazing..


Yea, Kicking in Steel Doors with steel frames with Dead Bold Locks now a
days are real easy to kick in.

TURTLE

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...


This is Turtle.

If it was a crime of being a Asshole and lier. You surely would be in
jail.

Asshole, yes.
Liar? No.


i8've got a question for you. Where do you get al this hate from for i
have not seen anybody with better hatred than you is Paul. Now he has
settled down , so I guess your the biggest Hatred Fellow around. Give me
some more of that hatred for your good at it.

I dont hate you Terry..I feel real sorry that you are so ****ing stupid,
and that you have customers that dont know any better.


Do you work for a living or just hate all day ?

Umm....think about it guy...I work. Im a working owner, meaning if I want
to go to CA and play, I can..since I still own a home there.
I also can send first year techs out that have more credibility and
training than you do, and still make a living.


This is Turtle.

I am impressed with your abilitys that you state above and it must be nice
living on easy street as you say , BUT. I too am a small HVAC/R
business owner for the last 20 years and 20 years before that I worked in
the hvac/r field , which comes to over 40 years in the business. I'm now
looking to retire at 55 years of age and enjoy life some before I go. I
have done good in the HVAC/R business and it has treated me well. Now
Education wise , I have a Voc Tech Degree [ Louisiana State Owned School ]
T. H. Harris Voc Tech School in [ Non-Destructiable testing ] X-Ray of
Metal and ultrasonic testing of metal flaws. Have 96 hours in Industrial
management from Louisiana State University which i need 127 hour to
finish. I run out of money and federal government had or was just getting
started with loaning money to students and program had not got started yet
in my area. So My education was just mininal at best. So this just about
sume it up as to me.

Then a Rookie hvac Business owner comes along and call this person ****ing
Stupid !


Aint a rookie boy.


Then this Rookie hvac business owner says he is a Asshole. In the HVAC
business if you get a Asshole working for you. You better get rid of him
for he will loose a bunch of customers with his mouth. OH yea, in this
part of the country a asshole and a low life are the same.

So, what do you classify yourself as son? A crook, or a guy that ****ed the
system and got away with it? Hey man..your words..not mine.


Then this Rookie hvac business owner expresses the most hatred that any
man can express to another person over the internet . Then in the same
conversation he says he feel sorry for this person ! In my part of the
country this is called a lie , but your area of business or part of the
country you can lie like this and not be called on it because it is
commonly accepted to lie in your business.

Funny...if you had talked to your buddy Nooner, as you claim to have, he
would state that I DO feel sorry for you.
I just hate hacks..you sir..ARE a hack.
Period.
Your own admission proves it.


Let me let you in on a little thing here. Steve your nothing more than a
puffed up Ego with a problem with being nobody in the business world. I
know i'm a nobody but you don't know your a nobody or will not accept you
being a nobody. You can bost all you want but no one gives a rates ass as
to you being a somebody.

LOL..
If I can keep up like this..I will stay a nobody...
You wanna retire at 55...I aint hit 40 yet, and I could tomorrow....and not
from screwing over customers.
But hey....you keep putting in $200 Goodman units for $2500.


So What I think is your just another computor Geek wanting to be somebody.
Knock your self out.

So wrong.
Just ****ed off that your system isnt this fast or nice.
Did you ever figure out how hyperthreading works?


TURTLE

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
...

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean labor,
vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a
3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply
removes
the
unit.

Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com )

This is Turtle.

Earth to Trailor house Paul. i see you did not know about Theif 101 on
the
street. All you do to break in a place with window shackers is to take
crow bar and lift the window slide up about 1 or 2 inches and then let
the
window unit fall out the window and hit the ground. Then watch the cord
still being plugged in but just stand on the window shacker to climb in
the wide open window where the window unit use to be.

So you are saying that those times you DO install a window unit, you dont
secure it properly??

Amazing..


How to re-possess in the case of non payment......might just as well collect
a little 'interest' while your at it...

--

SVL

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
...

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean
labor,
vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo), a
3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply
removes
the
unit.

Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com )

This is Turtle.

Earth to Trailor house Paul. i see you did not know about Theif 101 on
the
street. All you do to break in a place with window shackers is to take
crow bar and lift the window slide up about 1 or 2 inches and then let
the
window unit fall out the window and hit the ground. Then watch the cord
still being plugged in but just stand on the window shacker to climb in
the wide open window where the window unit use to be.

So you are saying that those times you DO install a window unit, you dont
secure it properly??

Amazing..


How to re-possess in the case of non payment......might just as well
collect
a little 'interest' while your at it...

Gotta be...was he the one that told Chris Young, Stormin Moron, that if he
used a GE capacitor that he would have job security?
LOL
OF course, I encourage everyone to read STormins post in alt.hvac about how
he raped a comsumer in NY and I encourage everyone to check for used parts
in a case like this..a legit contractor would have had the part, or ,
assuming he was fresh out, been back short order with the right correct
part...and GOD I hope its under warranty and the customer knows it.
oh..the post header title?
GE Incapacitors.
STormy Moron is the author....amazing read, and why I stay on his hack ass.


--

SVL

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty
wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
...

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads
or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean
labor,
vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER (Daewoo),
a
3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest
keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply
removes
the
unit.

Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com )

This is Turtle.

Earth to Trailor house Paul. i see you did not know about Theif 101
on
the
street. All you do to break in a place with window shackers is to
take
crow bar and lift the window slide up about 1 or 2 inches and then
let
the
window unit fall out the window and hit the ground. Then watch the
cord
still being plugged in but just stand on the window shacker to climb
in
the wide open window where the window unit use to be.

So you are saying that those times you DO install a window unit, you
dont
secure it properly??

Amazing..


How to re-possess in the case of non payment......might just as well
collect
a little 'interest' while your at it...

Gotta be...was he the one that told Chris Young, Stormin Moron, that if he
used a GE capacitor that he would have job security?
LOL
OF course, I encourage everyone to read STormins post in alt.hvac about
how
he raped a comsumer in NY and I encourage everyone to check for used parts
in a case like this..a legit contractor would have had the part, or ,
assuming he was fresh out, been back short order with the right correct
part...and GOD I hope its under warranty and the customer knows it.
oh..the post header title?
GE Incapacitors.
STormy Moron is the author....amazing read, and why I stay on his hack
ass.


Aww ****....well...here goes then.

IF Turtle had been the one that first suggested the "job security" issue,
I'm thinking he was probly being facetious........all in all, I think he
trys within his best ability to be fair.

Stormin, on the other hand....I mean...****, he's already got another call
back to put in the proper size cause he didnt have the right one on
hand.......and then to even suggest using a brand that has well known
problems...well...it simply astounds me.....that's conciously ****ing the
customer with a definate purpose in mind..purpose being to keep open the
probability of ****ing him again in the future.

This is definately not a good situation for anyone except (perhaps)
stormin.

....LOL...what really takes the cake is that he is stupid enough to put allof
it online......

Curious.....has anyone got this jokers business telephone number or address
???

--

SVL

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 6 Aug 2005 09:30:04 -0700, Banty
wrote:

In article , B-Hate-Me says...


wrote in message
...

Maybe, but they cost a lot less, with no ducts or concrete pads
or
plumbing
or special electrical wiring, and low-cost Chinese and Korean
labor,
vs
local HVAC criminals. At $69 for 5340 Btu/h at 10.2 EER
(Daewoo),
a
3-ton
system is $69x36K/5340 = $465.17. And if one breaks, the rest
keep
working.


The downside to window shakers-

1) Security...Your home is easily accessed if the burglar simply
removes
the
unit.

Bull****. Pulling a unit FROM THE OUTSIDE is a LOT harder
than just breaking a window or kicking in a door.

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com )

This is Turtle.

Earth to Trailor house Paul. i see you did not know about Theif 101
on
the
street. All you do to break in a place with window shackers is to
take
crow bar and lift the window slide up about 1 or 2 inches and then
let
the
window unit fall out the window and hit the ground. Then watch the
cord
still being plugged in but just stand on the window shacker to climb
in
the wide open window where the window unit use to be.

So you are saying that those times you DO install a window unit, you
dont
secure it properly??

Amazing..


How to re-possess in the case of non payment......might just as well
collect
a little 'interest' while your at it...

Gotta be...was he the one that told Chris Young, Stormin Moron, that if
he
used a GE capacitor that he would have job security?
LOL
OF course, I encourage everyone to read STormins post in alt.hvac about
how
he raped a comsumer in NY and I encourage everyone to check for used
parts
in a case like this..a legit contractor would have had the part, or ,
assuming he was fresh out, been back short order with the right correct
part...and GOD I hope its under warranty and the customer knows it.
oh..the post header title?
GE Incapacitors.
STormy Moron is the author....amazing read, and why I stay on his hack
ass.


Aww ****....well...here goes then.

IF Turtle had been the one that first suggested the "job security" issue,
I'm thinking he was probly being facetious........all in all, I think he
trys within his best ability to be fair.

Stormin, on the other hand....I mean...****, he's already got another call
back to put in the proper size cause he didnt have the right one on
hand.......and then to even suggest using a brand that has well known
problems...well...it simply astounds me.....that's conciously ****ing the
customer with a definate purpose in mind..purpose being to keep open the
probability of ****ing him again in the future.

This is definately not a good situation for anyone except (perhaps)
stormin.

...LOL...what really takes the cake is that he is stupid enough to put
allof
it online......

Curious.....has anyone got this jokers business telephone number or
address
???


Yup


--

SVL

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote in message
...

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...

Curious.....has anyone got this jokers business telephone number or
address
???


Yup



Hmmm......

Email them to me then, I think I have an idea........

G

--

SVL

"JTMcC" wrote in message
news

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...



Now a question? What do you think happens to an all steel
ship, with frozen storage holds 6 decks deep, below the
water level, with only the outside of envelope of the holds
insulated, not the steel plates between the holds...those
welded solid of course across the hull.

Thats exciting.


Phil Scott



No it's not. What thrills you about modern steels used at
low temperatures? It's an everyday occurance. Don't be so
afraid.

You didnt answer the question. I do. I met the design
builder in Honolulu two months later.

So tell me what happened in this case. It was in alaska
approx 1981. Smart remarks dont count, just an outcome and
what would cause that outcome. Many people I talk to in this
business know instantly what will happen in a case like that.



Phil Scott


JTMcC.

"~^Johnny^~" wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 02:02:27 -0700, "Phil Scott"
wrote:

(lots of other good stuff snipped)

slug
velocity can reach over 700 mph.


Hard to believe, but conceivable.

Kinda like water hammer on steroids. :-)

yes thats the idea. especially in a system with a large
accumulator running in a decent vacuum downstream of the slug.

Phil Scott


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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...

"JTMcC" wrote in message
news

"Phil Scott" wrote in message
...



Now a question? What do you think happens to an all steel
ship, with frozen storage holds 6 decks deep, below the
water level, with only the outside of envelope of the holds
insulated, not the steel plates between the holds...those
welded solid of course across the hull.

Thats exciting.


Phil Scott



No it's not. What thrills you about modern steels used at
low temperatures? It's an everyday occurance. Don't be so
afraid.

You didnt answer the question. I do. I met the design
builder in Honolulu two months later.

So tell me what happened in this case. It was in alaska
approx 1981. Smart remarks dont count, just an outcome and
what would cause that outcome. Many people I talk to in this
business know instantly what will happen in a case like that.


With a change of 100 deg F, thermal expansion / contraction of mild steel is
appx 3/4in per 100 ft. of length.

In your case above it is concievable that the inner welds could have failed
given it was a fairly large ship, and provided the temperature change
occured rapidly enough that heat heat wasnt transferred quickly enough so as
to equally soak all of the structural members.

In real life, this would be pretty damned difficult to accomplish, at
best--100 deg is a fairly large delta.

--

SVL