Hello:

Thinking ahead a bit, but thought I'd ask now while I remember to do so.

Just bought a new Toro walk behind type of lawnmower.

Is it still a good idea to remove all (I guess there would always be a
little left in the carburetor)
of the gas from the mower by running it dry for the winter ?

Or, just leave what's in it, in it ?

Or, just leave what's in in, in it, but add some fuel stabilizer ?

Thanks,
Bob

Since it's a new mower, why not read the manual and see what the
manufacturer recommends. Don't you think they are a better source than
random internet opinions?

It's never OK to just leave the gas in it. It should be either
drained/run dry or else have stabilizer added. The pluses for those
that favor stabilizer is it's easier and reduces the chance that any
carb seals will shrink.

Robert11 wrote:
Hello:

Thinking ahead a bit, but thought I'd ask now while I remember to do
so.
Just bought a new Toro walk behind type of lawnmower.

Is it still a good idea to remove all (I guess there would always be a
little left in the carburetor)
of the gas from the mower by running it dry for the winter ?

Or, just leave what's in it, in it ?

Or, just leave what's in in, in it, but add some fuel stabilizer ?

Thanks,
Bob

Yes.

..

..

..

..

The gas available today seems to be more stable than the stuff back in
the 60's. Leaving gas for 6 months is not likely to cause any problem
(unless it has a chance to evaporate.). I would estimate about 18 months as
a safe period.

However I generally add a little stabilizer at the end of the season and
run it dry. It does not take more than a few minutes. I would not be
worried if I forgot one year and I would expect everything to be OK.

Now my cultivator that was run dry and has not been used for three or
more years is another thing. I expect I will have a real problem getting it
going next time I want it.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia's Muire duit

"Robert11" wrote in message
...
Hello:

Thinking ahead a bit, but thought I'd ask now while I remember to do so.

Just bought a new Toro walk behind type of lawnmower.

Is it still a good idea to remove all (I guess there would always be a
little left in the carburetor)
of the gas from the mower by running it dry for the winter ?

Or, just leave what's in it, in it ?

Or, just leave what's in in, in it, but add some fuel stabilizer ?

Thanks,
Bob

I prefer draining and running it dry. You don't want the gas that is still
in the carburator to gum up. It won't run very long if you do a good job of
draining the tank. I then pull the plug and squirt a little oil into the
cylinder, and then turn it over a couple times to coat the inside.

Same thing for my snow blower where I consider it even more important to get
all the gas out before a long hot summer.

I have runout my Toro for 13 years now, and it still starts on the first
pull; so it seems satisfactory.

I am waiting for it to die so I can buy an electric, but it just keeps
chugging.

wrote:

Since it's a new mower, why not read the manual and see what the
manufacturer recommends. Don't you think they are a better source than
random internet opinions?

It's never OK to just leave the gas in it. It should be either
drained/run dry or else have stabilizer added. The pluses for those
that favor stabilizer is it's easier and reduces the chance that any
carb seals will shrink.



Hi,
I Live in Calgary where the winter weather is severe. I never empty fuel
tank on my mower(John Deere), snow
blower(Toro), weed eater(Echo), chain saw(Stihl), etc. Never had
trouble starting in the spring, never experienced
other trouble. I keep them all in tool shed.
Tony

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:18:28 -0400, Robert11 wrote:

Is it still a good idea to remove all (I guess there would always be a
little left in the carburetor)
of the gas from the mower by running it dry for the winter ?

Or, just leave what's in it, in it ?

Or, just leave what's in in, in it, but add some fuel stabilizer ?

I have always added some stabilizer, and filled the tank up all the way.
A full tank doesn't allow condensation (water) in the tank, which will
happen if there is air space in there. Been doing this for years, on many
different mowers (and other gadgets/vehicles), and never had a single
gas-related problem.

--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:CTOae.1125159$Xk.666808@pd7tw3no...
wrote:

Since it's a new mower, why not read the manual and see what the
manufacturer recommends. Don't you think they are a better source than
random internet opinions?

It's never OK to just leave the gas in it. It should be either
drained/run dry or else have stabilizer added. The pluses for those
that favor stabilizer is it's easier and reduces the chance that any
carb seals will shrink.


Hi,
I Live in Calgary where the winter weather is severe. I never empty fuel
tank on my mower(John Deere), snow
blower(Toro), weed eater(Echo), chain saw(Stihl), etc. Never had trouble
starting in the spring, never experienced
other trouble. I keep them all in tool shed.
Tony

I know someone who left gas in their generator for two years and was unable
to get started when the next outage came.
Yeh, you might get lucky and have no problems, but it is hardly worth the
trouble.

trouble with running itout of gas for storage, you allways leave some
gas in there that gums up quik,, and you got the air in the tank to
condense droplets into the system all storage season.best way is to
treat gasand leave tank full.lucas

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 12:17:35 -0400, wrote:

trouble with running itout of gas for storage, you allways leave some
gas in there that gums up quik,, and you got the air in the tank to
condense droplets into the system all storage season.best way is to
treat gasand leave tank full.lucas

And rust can be a problem on a drained tank.

Robert11 wrote:
Hello:



Or, just leave what's in in, in it, but add some fuel stabilizer ?

Thanks,
Bob




That's what I do, also this same subject was discussed for 2 days last
week. Look for
" B&S Engine Off-season Storage: drain gas tank or stabilize?"

"Robert11" wrote in message
...
Hello:

Thinking ahead a bit, but thought I'd ask now while I remember to do so.

Just bought a new Toro walk behind type of lawnmower.

Is it still a good idea to remove all (I guess there would always be a
little left in the carburetor)
of the gas from the mower by running it dry for the winter ?

Or, just leave what's in it, in it ?

Or, just leave what's in in, in it, but add some fuel stabilizer ?

Thanks,
Bob


I took my Honda to the shop because it wouldn't run. I know about engines,
and couldn't make it run. The guy told me NOT to leave the gas in there for
any length of time, or it changes completely, and is not very combustible.

I now either empty it out, or let it run dry before stowing.

Steve

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:CTOae.1125159$Xk.666808@pd7tw3no...
wrote:

Since it's a new mower, why not read the manual and see what the
manufacturer recommends. Don't you think they are a better source than
random internet opinions?

It's never OK to just leave the gas in it. It should be either
drained/run dry or else have stabilizer added. The pluses for those
that favor stabilizer is it's easier and reduces the chance that any
carb seals will shrink.


Hi,
I Live in Calgary where the winter weather is severe. I never empty fuel
tank on my mower(John Deere), snow
blower(Toro), weed eater(Echo), chain saw(Stihl), etc. Never had trouble
starting in the spring, never experienced
other trouble. I keep them all in tool shed.
Tony

I live in Las Vegas where it's 120 in the shade. And probably 160 surface
temperature of a lawnmower in the sun.

One size does not fit all. Some people should never wear spandex. What
goes for Canada don't work in the middle of the Mojave desert.

HTH.

Steve

Joseph,

What do you hope to gain by putting gas with a stabilizer additive in your
mower and then running it dry? The stabilized gas which might have protected
some carb seals is gone. Wouldn't it be cheaper to just run it dry without
the added stabilizer?hat do you think the stabilizer is doing for you?

Dave M.

"toller" wrote in message
...

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:CTOae.1125159$Xk.666808@pd7tw3no...
wrote:

Since it's a new mower, why not read the manual and see what the
manufacturer recommends. Don't you think they are a better source than
random internet opinions?

It's never OK to just leave the gas in it. It should be either
drained/run dry or else have stabilizer added. The pluses for those
that favor stabilizer is it's easier and reduces the chance that any
carb seals will shrink.


Hi,
I Live in Calgary where the winter weather is severe. I never empty fuel
tank on my mower(John Deere), snow
blower(Toro), weed eater(Echo), chain saw(Stihl), etc. Never had
trouble
starting in the spring, never experienced
other trouble. I keep them all in tool shed.
Tony

I know someone who left gas in their generator for two years and was
unable
to get started when the next outage came.
Yeh, you might get lucky and have no problems, but it is hardly worth the
trouble.

Leaving it in for two summers is considerably different than one winder in
Calgary. Even in the Denver area I don't usually bother with the mower for
the winter. But, I would not even think of letting any engine sit for the
summer with gas in it. Even with stabilizer. I have a generator but always
store it empty.

David Martel wrote:
Joseph,

What do you hope to gain by putting gas with a stabilizer additive
in your mower and then running it dry? The stabilized gas which might
have protected some carb seals is gone. Wouldn't it be cheaper to
just run it dry without the added stabilizer?hat do you think the
stabilizer is doing for you?
Dave M.

Frankly almost nothing. It is just that some years I am a little slow
about that last lawn cut and I don't get around to running it empty. As for
cost I have a couple of containers of stabilizer so the cost is not an issue
so I guess I have just not thought of it.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia's duit

SteveB wrote:
"Robert11" wrote in message
...

I took my Honda to the shop because it wouldn't run. I know about
engines, and couldn't make it run. The guy told me NOT to leave the
gas in there for any length of time, or it changes completely, and is
not very combustible.
I now either empty it out, or let it run dry before stowing.

Steve

I don't think you will go wrong empting it out, but your Honda rep is
wrong, at least partly wrong. It takes considerable time for gas to go bad.
It is a standard chemical reaction that starts slow and builds speed using
free radicals in the process. Stabilizer just controls the free radicals.
However there is a different reaction that can cause gas to go bad in a
short time. If it is allowed to evaporate (and some older mowers did allow
a lot of this) then it would go bad quickly from the evaporation of the
liter components (stabilizer will not help this at all).

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia's duit

"Rich256" wrote in message
...

"toller" wrote in message
...

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:CTOae.1125159$Xk.666808@pd7tw3no...
wrote:

Since it's a new mower, why not read the manual and see what the
manufacturer recommends. Don't you think they are a better source
than
random internet opinions?

It's never OK to just leave the gas in it. It should be either
drained/run dry or else have stabilizer added. The pluses for those
that favor stabilizer is it's easier and reduces the chance that any
carb seals will shrink.


Hi,
I Live in Calgary where the winter weather is severe. I never empty
fuel
tank on my mower(John Deere), snow
blower(Toro), weed eater(Echo), chain saw(Stihl), etc. Never had
trouble
starting in the spring, never experienced
other trouble. I keep them all in tool shed.
Tony

I know someone who left gas in their generator for two years and was
unable
to get started when the next outage came.
Yeh, you might get lucky and have no problems, but it is hardly worth
the
trouble.

Leaving it in for two summers is considerably different than one winder in
Calgary. Even in the Denver area I don't usually bother with the mower
for
the winter. But, I would not even think of letting any engine sit for the
summer with gas in it. Even with stabilizer. I have a generator but
always
store it empty.

And I forgot to add stabilizer won't help much with the long term anyway.
The gas will evaporate after two years.

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:vsQae.64429$A31.44250@fed1read03...

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:CTOae.1125159$Xk.666808@pd7tw3no...
wrote:

Since it's a new mower, why not read the manual and see what the
manufacturer recommends. Don't you think they are a better source than
random internet opinions?

It's never OK to just leave the gas in it. It should be either
drained/run dry or else have stabilizer added. The pluses for those
that favor stabilizer is it's easier and reduces the chance that any
carb seals will shrink.


Hi,
I Live in Calgary where the winter weather is severe. I never empty fuel
tank on my mower(John Deere), snow
blower(Toro), weed eater(Echo), chain saw(Stihl), etc. Never had
trouble
starting in the spring, never experienced
other trouble. I keep them all in tool shed.
Tony

I live in Las Vegas where it's 120 in the shade. And probably 160 surface
temperature of a lawnmower in the sun.

One size does not fit all. Some people should never wear spandex. What
goes for Canada don't work in the middle of the Mojave desert.

HTH.

Steve

Shouldn't be trying to grow grass in Vegas anyhow :-)

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
"Robert11" wrote in message
..

I took my Honda to the shop because it wouldn't run. I know about
engines, and couldn't make it run. The guy told me NOT to leave the
gas in there for any length of time, or it changes completely, and is
not very combustible.
I now either empty it out, or let it run dry before stowing.

Steve

I don't think you will go wrong empting it out, but your Honda rep is
wrong, at least partly wrong. It takes considerable time for gas to go bad.
It is a standard chemical reaction that starts slow and builds speed using
free radicals in the process. Stabilizer just controls the free radicals.
However there is a different reaction that can cause gas to go bad in a short
time. If it is allowed to evaporate (and some older mowers did allow a lot of
this) then it would go bad quickly from the evaporation of the liter
components (stabilizer will not help this at all).

I have had my Troy-Bilt 30 inch walk-behind for about 9 years and have never
burned anything in it but Amoco (now BP) ultimate gasoline. For those
unfamiliar this gas is as clear as a glass of water. I never drain, I never
treat, and I never pull more than once (possibly twice the first time in the
spring). I figure this costs me an extra 5 or 6 bucks a year over regular
unleaded.

I acknowledge that this is purely anecdotal, but I figure that the stuff that
turns to gunk is the stuff that is not refined out of normal gas.

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:18:28 -0400, "Robert11"
wrote:

Hello:

Thinking ahead a bit, but thought I'd ask now while I remember to do so.

Just bought a new Toro walk behind type of lawnmower.

Is it still a good idea to remove all (I guess there would always be a
little left in the carburetor)
of the gas from the mower by running it dry for the winter ?

Or, just leave what's in it, in it ?

Or, just leave what's in in, in it, but add some fuel stabilizer ?

Thanks,
Bob


I use the stabilizer without any problems. But you could completely
drain it.

Rick Brandt wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
"Robert11" wrote in message
..

I took my Honda to the shop because it wouldn't run. I know about
engines, and couldn't make it run. The guy told me NOT to leave the
gas in there for any length of time, or it changes completely, and
is not very combustible.
I now either empty it out, or let it run dry before stowing.

Steve

I don't think you will go wrong empting it out, but your Honda
rep is wrong, at least partly wrong. It takes considerable time for
gas to go bad. It is a standard chemical reaction that starts slow
and builds speed using free radicals in the process. Stabilizer
just controls the free radicals. However there is a different
reaction that can cause gas to go bad in a short time. If it is
allowed to evaporate (and some older mowers did allow a lot of this)
then it would go bad quickly from the evaporation of the liter
components (stabilizer will not help this at all).

I have had my Troy-Bilt 30 inch walk-behind for about 9 years and
have never burned anything in it but Amoco (now BP) ultimate
gasoline. For those unfamiliar this gas is as clear as a glass of
water. I never drain, I never treat, and I never pull more than once
(possibly twice the first time in the spring). I figure this costs
me an extra 5 or 6 bucks a year over regular unleaded.

I acknowledge that this is purely anecdotal, but I figure that the
stuff that turns to gunk is the stuff that is not refined out of
normal gas.

The stuff that turns to gunk IS normal gas. :-)


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia's duit

According to Joseph Meehan :

I acknowledge that this is purely anecdotal, but I figure that the
stuff that turns to gunk is the stuff that is not refined out of
normal gas.

The stuff that turns to gunk IS normal gas. :-)

Indeed.

Gasoline isn't a "pure" chemical. It's a mixture of hydrocarbons of
various weights. Traces as light as propane or even methane, with
traces as heavy as asphalt. Refining is nothing more than forcing the
average to be roughly equivalent to somewhere around C7H16 or C8H18,
reducing the "tails" of the distribution to a "reasonable" level and
specified octane level, and having enough "lights" to give you enough
vapor pressure.

Evaporation acts almost as "fractional distillation". The light
parts evaporate preferentially, leaving the heavy/sticky parts behind.

Which means that "gumming up your carb" is not necessarily
(or even largely) a chemical process, but is in fact a physical
one.

With small engines (especially weed wackers and the like), running
the motor dry and then putting it away is the worst possible
thing you can do. The residue gas solidifies in place. If it's 2-stroke
mixed gas, it's worse because the mixed oil is going to congeal and
evaporate into a sticky obstructive mess.

Think of gasoline like corn or maple syrup. Sticky to begin with,
it gets vastly worse if the water is allowed to evaporate.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to Joseph Meehan :

I acknowledge that this is purely anecdotal, but I figure that the
stuff that turns to gunk is the stuff that is not refined out of
normal gas.

The stuff that turns to gunk IS normal gas. :-)

Indeed.

Gasoline isn't a "pure" chemical. It's a mixture of hydrocarbons of
various weights. Traces as light as propane or even methane, with
traces as heavy as asphalt. Refining is nothing more than forcing the
average to be roughly equivalent to somewhere around C7H16 or C8H18,
reducing the "tails" of the distribution to a "reasonable" level and
specified octane level, and having enough "lights" to give you enough
vapor pressure.

Evaporation acts almost as "fractional distillation". The light
parts evaporate preferentially, leaving the heavy/sticky parts behind.

Which means that "gumming up your carb" is not necessarily
(or even largely) a chemical process, but is in fact a physical
one.

With small engines (especially weed wackers and the like), running
the motor dry and then putting it away is the worst possible
thing you can do. The residue gas solidifies in place. If it's
2-stroke mixed gas, it's worse because the mixed oil is going to
congeal and evaporate into a sticky obstructive mess.

Think of gasoline like corn or maple syrup. Sticky to begin with,
it gets vastly worse if the water is allowed to evaporate.

Gasoline not only suffers from evaporation as you well explained, but it
also suffers from chemical reactions that can occur without any evaporation.
The various hydrocarbons can and do tend to react among themselves,
generally forming heaver - longer chains. This is the part of the process
that stabilizers can help slow down. This part of the process generally
takes a fairly long time.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

In article ,
Robert11 wrote:
Hello:

Thinking ahead a bit, but thought I'd ask now while I remember to do so.

Just bought a new Toro walk behind type of lawnmower.

Is it still a good idea to remove all (I guess there would always be a
little left in the carburetor)
of the gas from the mower by running it dry for the winter ?

Or, just leave what's in it, in it ?

Or, just leave what's in in, in it, but add some fuel stabilizer ?

Thanks,
Bob



Your new Toro mower probably came with a new owner's manual that will
recommend what to do.


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

I let my mower run dry and it has never been the same. Seems like all
the junk at the bottom of the tank clogged up the carberator inlet.

According to Joseph Meehan :
Gasoline not only suffers from evaporation as you well explained, but it
also suffers from chemical reactions that can occur without any evaporation.
The various hydrocarbons can and do tend to react among themselves,
generally forming heaver - longer chains. This is the part of the process
that stabilizers can help slow down. This part of the process generally
takes a fairly long time.

True enough, but with 2-cycle gas, it implies that even a stabilizer
won't help (much) if you encourage evaporation (ie: running the engine
dry). Stabilizer or not, the majority of the gasoline residue will
evaporate, leaving the heavy ends and 2-stroke oil behind. Gasoline
stabilizer cannot prevent that from turning into sticky/obstructive goo.

Particularly nasty in engines with small fuel lines and small fuel
passages in their carbs (ie: weed wackers).
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

but the theory is that if you let it run dry, there is only a small
amount of gas left in the carb, yes that will evaporate and leave a
small amount of residue...

the alternative is leave the tank full and you then have an unlimited
amount of gas to evaporate leaving a much larger amount of residue...

thats why I add Stabil then let it run dry. whatever small amount of
gas is left still prbobaly evaporates but if there should be a large
pool left somplace, the Stabil will slow down the degredation.

If the object of the game is to have the least amount of residue left,
my bet is to have the least amount of gas avaialbe (i.e let it run
drey) and have the gas that is left, stabilized. i.e. put stabil in
before I let it run dry.

Mark

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to Joseph Meehan :
Gasoline not only suffers from evaporation as you well
explained, but it also suffers from chemical reactions that can
occur without any evaporation. The various hydrocarbons can and do
tend to react among themselves, generally forming heaver - longer
chains. This is the part of the process that stabilizers can help
slow down. This part of the process generally takes a fairly long
time.

True enough, but with 2-cycle gas, it implies that even a stabilizer
won't help (much) if you encourage evaporation (ie: running the engine
dry). Stabilizer or not, the majority of the gasoline residue will
evaporate, leaving the heavy ends and 2-stroke oil behind. Gasoline
stabilizer cannot prevent that from turning into sticky/obstructive
goo.

Particularly nasty in engines with small fuel lines and small fuel
passages in their carbs (ie: weed wackers).

In general I agree. In part, as you infer, it does depend on the
specific engine. I have never had a problem, but others may. In most cases
if you do either, you should be OK, over winter is not all that long.
However on some engines, it could be a problem and that problem is more
likely related to evaporation than the chemical changes staibilization helps

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Mark" wrote in message
ups.com...
but the theory is that if you let it run dry, there is only a small
amount of gas left in the carb, yes that will evaporate and leave a
small amount of residue...

the alternative is leave the tank full and you then have an unlimited
amount of gas to evaporate leaving a much larger amount of residue...
thats why I add Stabil then let it run dry. whatever small amount of
gas is left still prbobaly evaporates but if there should be a large
pool left somplace, the Stabil will slow down the degredation.

If the object of the game is to have the least amount of residue left,
my bet is to have the least amount of gas avaialbe (i.e let it run
drey) and have the gas that is left, stabilized. i.e. put stabil in
before I let it run dry.

Mark

I think putting in the Stabil is a waste of time. If you drain the tank and
then run the engine until it dies there isn't enough left to leave any
residue. There is no place to leave a "pool" at that point.

As others have pointed out in cool climates I have found no problem. When I
lived in a warm climate I found reasons to start the mower occasionally so
it was still not a problem. In cold climates the snow blower is the most
likely to gum up if you don't drain the tank. I have been doing that for 30
years and that same engine still starts on the first pull each winter. I
also use Mobil 1 5W30 oil in it. Never have drained or added to my lawn
mower and it is on it's 25th year. Still starts on the first pull. But it
is stored in a rather cold area that rarely gets much above freezing. The
blower on the other hand experiences 90+ for months.

I guess the bottom line is to do whatever you feel safe with.

According to Mark :
but the theory is that if you let it run dry, there is only a small
amount of gas left in the carb, yes that will evaporate and leave a
small amount of residue...

Mixed 2-stroke gas is fairly viscous, and there'll be considerable
residual gas, of which anywhere up to 1/16th of it is goo-forming oil.

Then, with small bore lines and carbs (ie: weed wackers), you could have
gunkification within a few weeks. Especially on things like in-tank
fuel filters where the elements will be saturated with gas no matter
what you do in turns of running dry. Come spring, the elements are plugged.

the alternative is leave the tank full and you then have an unlimited
amount of gas to evaporate leaving a much larger amount of residue...

It takes a very long time even for a (sealed) weed wacker tank to appreciably
evaporate. Meanwhile, the volatiles are keeping the fuel from sludging
up (and stabil would prolong that).

thats why I add Stabil then let it run dry. whatever small amount of
gas is left still prbobaly evaporates but if there should be a large
pool left somplace, the Stabil will slow down the degredation.

Stabil will not slow down evaporation. Once it's evaporated leaving
two-stroke oil behind, stabil won't prevent it from becoming sticky muck.

On the last weedwacking day of the season, I simply stop my stihl and hang
it on the wall. Full of gas. Come spring, it starts in 2 pulls. Just
like it does in the summer when used every week.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.