I hired a plumber to replace my kitchen sink and faucet. The plumber after
removing the old sink pointed out that the hole in my counter top was a little
bit big and there were two gaps but he would caulk over it.

Well it has not worked and now there is a gap and the counter has swollen from
getting wet where the gap is. a three inch section of the counter top is now
higher then the sink. The plumber claims that the only cure is for me to
replace my counter top!!

I spent a lot of money to fix up my house and have ended up with something worse
then what I had before! The plumber makes $80 per hour, I make $7.50 per hour.

Is there another option besides replacing the entire counter top? The old sink
had a horrid metal ring around it that crap would get under and that was part of
the reason I replaced it but the ring did keep the gaps from the two big hole in
my counter top showing.

In article ,
says...



I hired a plumber to replace my kitchen sink and faucet. The plumber after
removing the old sink pointed out that the hole in my counter top was a little
bit big and there were two gaps but he would caulk over it.

Well it has not worked and now there is a gap and the counter has swollen from
getting wet where the gap is. a three inch section of the counter top is now
higher then the sink. The plumber claims that the only cure is for me to
replace my counter top!!

I spent a lot of money to fix up my house and have ended up with something worse
then what I had before! The plumber makes $80 per hour, I make $7.50 per hour.

Is there another option besides replacing the entire counter top? The old sink
had a horrid metal ring around it that crap would get under and that was part of
the reason I replaced it but the ring did keep the gaps from the two big hole in
my counter top showing.

Which did you want the plumber to stretch to fit? The sink, or the countertop?

:-/

Banty

On 31 Oct 2005 12:25:14 -0800, in misc.consumers.house Banty
wrote:

In article ,
says...



I hired a plumber to replace my kitchen sink and faucet. The plumber after
removing the old sink pointed out that the hole in my counter top was a little
bit big and there were two gaps but he would caulk over it.

Well it has not worked and now there is a gap and the counter has swollen from
getting wet where the gap is. a three inch section of the counter top is now
higher then the sink. The plumber claims that the only cure is for me to
replace my counter top!!

I spent a lot of money to fix up my house and have ended up with something worse
then what I had before! The plumber makes $80 per hour, I make $7.50 per hour.

Is there another option besides replacing the entire counter top? The old sink
had a horrid metal ring around it that crap would get under and that was part of
the reason I replaced it but the ring did keep the gaps from the two big hole in
my counter top showing.

Which did you want the plumber to stretch to fit? The sink, or the countertop?

:-/

Banty


Neither one could stretch as much as your nasty mouth.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 13:16:49 -0800, wrote:

Is there another option besides replacing the entire counter top? The old sink
had a horrid metal ring around it that crap would get under and that was part of
the reason I replaced it but the ring did keep the gaps from the two big hole in
my counter top showing.

Which did you want the plumber to stretch to fit? The sink, or the countertop?

:-/

Banty


Neither one could stretch as much as your nasty mouth.

You're a little touchy after doing something stupid. Big hole, little sink
isn't exactly rocket science.

doubter wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 13:16:49 -0800, wrote:

Is there another option besides replacing the entire counter top? The old
sink had a horrid metal ring around it that crap would get under and that
was part of the reason I replaced it but the ring did keep the gaps from
the two big hole in my counter top showing.

Which did you want the plumber to stretch to fit? The sink, or the
countertop?

Neither one could stretch as much as your nasty mouth.

You're a little touchy after doing something stupid. Big hole, little sink
isn't exactly rocket science.



It may be to him. I wonder if he's from West Virginia?




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

In article , doubter says...

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 13:16:49 -0800, wrote:

Is there another option besides replacing the entire counter top? The old sink
had a horrid metal ring around it that crap would get under and that was part of
the reason I replaced it but the ring did keep the gaps from the two big hole in
my counter top showing.

Which did you want the plumber to stretch to fit? The sink, or the countertop?

:-/

Banty


Neither one could stretch as much as your nasty mouth.

You're a little touchy after doing something stupid. Big hole, little sink
isn't exactly rocket science.


I have a theory.

Folks that, um, unreasonable, get nasty quickly because, in their lives, Bad
Stuff seems to happen to them often, and they can't quite figure out why.

Banty

Banty wrote:
I have a theory.

Folks that, um, unreasonable, get nasty quickly because, in their lives, Bad
Stuff seems to happen to them often, and they can't quite figure out why.



I believe you have hit the nail right on the head. I had the same thought
toward the orignal poster. Too many recessive traits....




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

In article , Mortimer Schnerd, RN
says...

Banty wrote:
I have a theory.

Folks that, um, unreasonable, get nasty quickly because, in their lives, Bad
Stuff seems to happen to them often, and they can't quite figure out why.



I believe you have hit the nail right on the head. I had the same thought
toward the orignal poster. Too many recessive traits

Or, alternatively, just a entitlement-teaching upbringing.

There *is* a small real gripe to be had with the plumber because the plumber
should have simply refused the job. Else made it clear that any kludgy job that
can be done with this kind of setup was not going to be satisfactory to most
people.

Banty

The plumber should fix it free of charge because he caused it.

On 1 Nov 2005 10:37:56 -0800, in misc.consumers.house "
wrote:

The plumber should fix it free of charge because he caused it.


Do you have any idea what the fix would be? Perhaps an ugly metal rim like the
old sink had? The plumber is supposed to come out to today to try and caulk it
again but I really don't see how that will fix the problem, especially now that
the counter has swollen up. Also running the garbage disposal causes the sink
to vibrate quit a bit and I think would cause it to shift some.

I'm glad that this plumber has not tried to bill me yet. For $80 an hour (and
with his supposed 20 years experience) I expect him to know how to deal with a
situation like this.

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 10:48:25 -0800, someone wrote:

The plumber should fix it free of charge because he caused it.

Do you have any idea what the fix would be?

That's a JOKE, you idiot. (Even though it is what you so WANTED to
hear).

I'm glad that this plumber has not tried to bill me yet. For $80 an hour (and
with his supposed 20 years experience) I expect him to know how to deal with a
situation like this.

The best way to deal w2ith this, is to refuse to install the too-small
sink until you had replaced the counter. That is the mistake the
plumber made. He should have walked away.

I can see why you only make $7.50/hr. Around here, "fast food" (on
average) pays more than that.


Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 10:48:25 -0800, wrote:


I'm glad that this plumber has not tried to bill me yet. For $80 an hour (and
with his supposed 20 years experience) I expect him to know how to deal with a
situation like this.

Let's see, by your logic, a heart surgeon who makes several hundred dollars
an hour should do even better at fixing your sink.

You would be much better off if you would simply hire David Copperfield.

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 19:23:50 GMT, in misc.consumers.house
(v) wrote:

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 10:48:25 -0800, someone wrote:

The plumber should fix it free of charge because he caused it.

Do you have any idea what the fix would be?

That's a JOKE, you idiot. (Even though it is what you so WANTED to
hear).

I'm glad that this plumber has not tried to bill me yet. For $80 an hour (and
with his supposed 20 years experience) I expect him to know how to deal with a
situation like this.

The best way to deal w2ith this, is to refuse to install the too-small
sink until you had replaced the counter. That is the mistake the
plumber made. He should have walked away.

We are going to replace the counter top.. Yes he should have refused to put the
sink in. No one insisted that he put it in, it was his call. He has agreed to
refit the sink for free when we get a new counter top. So now we have to find
another contractor to put in a counter top and all the associated nightmares of
dealing with contractors. I wish my husband was handy but he is not.

I'm not handy and I have busy toddlers to look after.

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 20:09:07 GMT, in misc.consumers.house doubter
wrote:

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 10:48:25 -0800, wrote:


I'm glad that this plumber has not tried to bill me yet. For $80 an hour (and
with his supposed 20 years experience) I expect him to know how to deal with a
situation like this.

Let's see, by your logic, a heart surgeon who makes several hundred dollars
an hour should do even better at fixing your sink.

You would be much better off if you would simply hire David Copperfield.


I did not ask an heart surgeon to fit a new sink.

wrote...
On 1 Nov 2005 10:37:56 -0800, in misc.consumers.house
"
wrote:

The plumber should fix it free of charge because he caused it.


Do you have any idea what the fix would be?

The fix was (and still is) to get a new counter top.

Craig

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 20:39:02 GMT, in misc.consumers.house "Craig"
wrote:


wrote...
On 1 Nov 2005 10:37:56 -0800, in misc.consumers.house
"
wrote:

The plumber should fix it free of charge because he caused it.


Do you have any idea what the fix would be?

The fix was (and still is) to get a new counter top.

Craig



Like the subject line a nightmare.. the other fix is to have the old sink put
back in. The old sink fits because it has a metal flange that goes around it.

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 19:23:50 GMT, in misc.consumers.house
(v) wrote:

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 10:48:25 -0800, someone wrote:

The plumber should fix it free of charge because he caused it.

Do you have any idea what the fix would be?

That's a JOKE, you idiot. (Even though it is what you so WANTED to
hear).

I'm glad that this plumber has not tried to bill me yet. For $80 an hour (and
with his supposed 20 years experience) I expect him to know how to deal with a
situation like this.

The best way to deal w2ith this, is to refuse to install the too-small
sink until you had replaced the counter. That is the mistake the
plumber made. He should have walked away.

We are going to replace the counter top.. Yes he should have refused to put the
sink in. No one insisted that he put it in, it was his call. He has agreed to
refit the sink for free when we get a new counter top. So now we have to find
another contractor to put in a counter top and all the associated nightmares of
dealing with contractors. I wish my husband was handy but he is not.

I'm not handy and I have busy toddlers to look after.



I'm of the female 'persuasion' myself and don't mean this as coming from that
you're the wife - but, have you considered having your *husband* getting the
contractors? He may have a better outlook on how to be successful at it.

The plumber is being more than reasonable here.

Banty

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:48:22 GMT, in misc.consumers.house Andy Hill
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 20:39:02 GMT, in misc.consumers.house "Craig"
wrote:


wrote...
On 1 Nov 2005 10:37:56 -0800, in misc.consumers.house
"
wrote:

The plumber should fix it free of charge because he caused it.

Do you have any idea what the fix would be?

The fix was (and still is) to get a new counter top.


Like the subject line a nightmare.. the other fix is to have the old sink put
back in. The old sink fits because it has a metal flange that goes around it.

Sounds like the old countertop has been screwed up by the water leakage, so even
the old sink isn't going to fit right. Great fun.


No it's not that bad.

wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 20:39:02 GMT, in misc.consumers.house "Craig"
wrote:


wrote...
On 1 Nov 2005 10:37:56 -0800, in misc.consumers.house
"
wrote:

The plumber should fix it free of charge because he caused it.

Do you have any idea what the fix would be?

The fix was (and still is) to get a new counter top.


Like the subject line a nightmare.. the other fix is to have the old sink put
back in. The old sink fits because it has a metal flange that goes around it.

Sounds like the old countertop has been screwed up by the water leakage, so even
the old sink isn't going to fit right. Great fun.

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 00:08:30 GMT, in misc.consumers.house Andy Hill
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:48:22 GMT, in misc.consumers.house Andy Hill
wrote:

Sounds like the old countertop has been screwed up by the water leakage, so even
the old sink isn't going to fit right. Great fun.

No it's not that bad.

OK then. If you can live with countertop damage, then it's either reinstall the
old sink or track down a sink that will actually fit the hole. Heck, maybe you
can track down one that's a bit larger than the current hole, and you can chop
out the damaged countertop while enlarging the hole for the sink. Pick yer
poison.

I wouldn't try using caulk as a wide gap filler. That just ain't what it's
made for.

Thanks,

I'm going to go ahead and replace the counter top.. it's tired and old anyway.

I got the plumber to agree to take the sink out and put it back into the new
countertop (after I get it redone) for no extra charge.

I really hate the old sink.. it's really shallow, harvest gold colored enamel.
It had a flange going around it that crud could get under and seemed very
unsanitary. But it turns out the flange was hiding the fact that the hole in
the countertop was cut too big back in 1973.

The Plumber says sinks come in standard sizes and I would have to get one
custom made but that sounds more expensive then getting a new countertop.. I was
planning / hoping to replace it someday anyway...

The gap was tiny, only a few millimeters and I think that's why the plumber
thought he could get away with it. But now it looks much bigger because water
has swollen that section of the countertop but it shinks in size when it gets a
chance to dry out.

The plumber has re caulked the counter for now.


Now to find someone to install a new countertop. Hopefully it can be done
without a huge fiasco!

wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:48:22 GMT, in misc.consumers.house Andy Hill
wrote:

Sounds like the old countertop has been screwed up by the water leakage, so even
the old sink isn't going to fit right. Great fun.

No it's not that bad.

OK then. If you can live with countertop damage, then it's either reinstall the
old sink or track down a sink that will actually fit the hole. Heck, maybe you
can track down one that's a bit larger than the current hole, and you can chop
out the damaged countertop while enlarging the hole for the sink. Pick yer
poison.

I wouldn't try using caulk as a wide gap filler. That just ain't what it's
made for.

"OK then. If you can live with countertop damage, then it's either
reinstall the
old sink or track down a sink that will actually fit the hole. "

Yes, a different sink is a possible solution. While most go in std
size openings, there can be a difference in the outside dimensions,
meaning some will have a larger rim that might cover up your problem
area. However, since you say it's starting to buckle from water damage
at the edge, it may be too far gone. If you let it dry out for a few
days, and it goes back down, then it should be OK. If it won't then
definitely time for a new countertop.

You have to evaluate the cost/benefit of new counter vs a differenet
sink. If you can't return the existing one, you can sell it on Ebay
for local pickup.

On 2 Nov 2005 05:54:43 -0800, in misc.consumers.house
wrote:

Yes, a different sink is a possible solution. While most go in std
size openings, there can be a difference in the outside dimensions,
meaning some will have a larger rim that might cover up your problem
area.


That is what I was thinking but the plumber said it was impossible. The gap was
literally only 1-2 millimeters long and wide. I'm wondering if I could just
screw a small piece of wood to the underside of the countertop and then caulk
over it. This of course would depend on the counter top going back to it's
normal size after drying out.

Perhaps the real problem here was not the gap but the caulk coming off and
letting water into the 1-2mm gap that then allowed the countertop to expand.

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:21:09 -0800, someone wrote:

Perhaps the real problem here was not the gap but the caulk coming off and
letting water into the 1-2mm gap that then allowed the countertop to expand.

Why is the coutnertop swelling up; is it made of particle board, or an
even cheaper and crummier stuff that looks like pressed together
layers of cardboard? The low-end counter materials can indeed swell
up, unlike oft used (but more expensive) materials like granite,
"Corian" (or its competitors) or even "cultured marble".

If you didn't like the countertop anyway, now is the perfect time to
get it replaced. Just be sure the hole is the right size this time!

But one Q: Who supplied the sink? If Mr. Plumber supplied it, that
is an "aha" as to why he was motivated to go ahead and try to install
it, because HE didn't want to be stuck with the new sink, unused.


Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.

"That is what I was thinking but the plumber said it was impossible.
The gap was
literally only 1-2 millimeters long and wide. I'm wondering if I could
just
screw a small piece of wood to the underside of the countertop and then
caulk
over it. "

If you don't mind looking at a bit more caulk, there is no reason the
added piece of wood can't be used with the existing sink. A bead of
caulk can certainly cover 2mm. You can fasten a piece of wood
underneath and build it up to the same height as the countertop along
the edge that is too short, so that it supports that side of the sink.
The rim will then extend just a tiny bit past your added wood and go
over the existing countertop enough so that it's not visible.

I did a similar thing to support my new Kohler cast iron sink. The
existing opening was oversize. It wasn't so big that there would be a
visible gap, but it just barely extended over the countertop. Since
the new sink was very heavy, I decided to beef it up from underneath
for more support. So, in essence, I did pretty much what you're trying
to do, except I didn't need to use caulk to hide the tiny gap.

On 2 Nov 2005 17:26:43 -0800, in misc.consumers.house
wrote:

"That is what I was thinking but the plumber said it was impossible.
The gap was
literally only 1-2 millimeters long and wide. I'm wondering if I could
just
screw a small piece of wood to the underside of the countertop and then
caulk
over it. "

If you don't mind looking at a bit more caulk, there is no reason the
added piece of wood can't be used with the existing sink. A bead of
caulk can certainly cover 2mm. You can fasten a piece of wood
underneath and build it up to the same height as the countertop along
the edge that is too short, so that it supports that side of the sink.
The rim will then extend just a tiny bit past your added wood and go
over the existing countertop enough so that it's not visible.I went to Wally world

I did a similar thing to support my new Kohler cast iron sink. The
existing opening was oversize. It wasn't so big that there would be a
visible gap, but it just barely extended over the countertop. Since
the new sink was very heavy, I decided to beef it up from underneath
for more support. So, in essence, I did pretty much what you're trying
to do, except I didn't need to use caulk to hide the tiny gap.


Sounds cheaper and a lot less hassle then getting a new countertop..

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 18:21:08 -0800, someone wrote:

Sounds cheaper and a lot less hassle then getting a new countertop..

Unfortunately, you'd need somebody "handy" to do it, and given what
you said about yourself and your spouse, that still means you'll need
to hire somebody.

AND - if the countertop substrate (the stuff UNDER the smooth
waterproof surface layer) is the cheap stuff, you are still likely to
have problems.


Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.

wrote in message
oups.com...
The plumber should fix it free of charge because he caused it.


What makes you say the plumber is responsible -- depends on who purchased
the sink -- if the homeowner purchased the sink and it was too small well,
duh....no brainer

wrote in message
...
On 1 Nov 2005 10:37:56 -0800, in misc.consumers.house
"
wrote:

The plumber should fix it free of charge because he caused it.


Do you have any idea what the fix would be? Perhaps an ugly metal rim
like the
old sink had?

No --- perhaps the correct size sink for the area -- get a tape measure and
measure - obviously the new sink is not the same size as the old one.

The plumber is supposed to come out to today to try and caulk it
again but I really don't see how that will fix the problem, especially now
that
the counter has swollen up. Also running the garbage disposal causes the
sink
to vibrate quit a bit and I think would cause it to shift some.

I'm glad that this plumber has not tried to bill me yet. For $80 an hour
(and
with his supposed 20 years experience) I expect him to know how to deal
with a
situation like this.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 20:39:02 GMT, in misc.consumers.house "Craig"
wrote:


wrote...
On 1 Nov 2005 10:37:56 -0800, in misc.consumers.house
"
wrote:

The plumber should fix it free of charge because he caused it.


Do you have any idea what the fix would be?

The fix was (and still is) to get a new counter top.

Craig



Like the subject line a nightmare.. the other fix is to have the old sink
put
back in. The old sink fits because it has a metal flange that goes around
it.

Few questions here --- who picked out and purchased the sink? Who measured
the sink? When the plumber tried to install it - did he show you that it
did not fit properly and that there would be a gap? If so did you say "ok
go ahead and install and caulk it" or did you say "I don't want the wrong
size sink I'll get a differnet one?" Did the plumber supply the sink? If
so he should have taken it back and got the correct size. If he didn't and
you supplied it then you should have taken it back and got the correct size

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 00:25:12 GMT, in misc.consumers.house "Lady"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
The plumber should fix it free of charge because he caused it.


What makes you say the plumber is responsible -- depends on who purchased
the sink -- if the homeowner purchased the sink and it was too small well,
duh....no brainer



The plumber purchased the sink.

wrote in message
...

The plumber purchased the sink.

It took 3 dozen posts before the thread provided this
information. . . .
Since the plumber bought the sink to match the
countertop, and failed to fit it accurately, he may
be held responsible for either repair or replacement.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 14:47:09 -0500, in misc.consumers.house "Don Phillipson"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .

The plumber purchased the sink.

It took 3 dozen posts before the thread provided this
information. . . .
Since the plumber bought the sink to match the
countertop, and failed to fit it accurately, he may
be held responsible for either repair or replacement.


The way I see it the plumber destroyed my counter top.

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 14:47:09 -0500, in misc.consumers.house "Don Phillipson"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..

The plumber purchased the sink.

It took 3 dozen posts before the thread provided this
information. . . .
Since the plumber bought the sink to match the
countertop, and failed to fit it accurately, he may
be held responsible for either repair or replacement.


The way I see it the plumber destroyed my counter top.

OK, so now that after - what, how many days it was since you first posted? -
you've told us this ESSENTIAL detail, that the *plumber* chose the sink, and
someone now agrees with you, you're going to go all "wahh-wahhh-WAAhhh" on us?
You want to stick the cost of the counter on the plumber - right?

This probably figures into why the plumber did agree to repeat the work for
free.

But my question is - why are you going through so much churn and agita about
this?

Is there someone else in your household that can handle this sort of thing (not
the repair, procuring the labor and expertise for the repair.)? Who would have
a little more of a handle as to what decisions to make, and what the important
facts and factors are?

If I were you, I'd even consider choosing a sink of my own, getting a new and
possibly upgraded countertop (since you don't like the one you have anyway) and
the sink installed by someone else, and be done with it. And enjoy that
product, more liek what I really want. And let all this other stuff be water
under the bridge. But then, I'm not normally out to prove anything and don't
try to cheap out of things.

Banty

On 4 Nov 2005 13:51:00 -0800, Banty wrote:

But then, I'm not normally out to prove anything and don't
try to cheap out of things.

The point, Banty, that we all have learned here is that we truly get
what we pay for. If we want cheap, that's perfectly fine as long as
we don't bitch about the consequences. If we want well done and
fabulous, we either have to pay good $$ or educate ourselves fully in
order to get that result.

"The point, Banty, that we all have learned here is that we truly get
what we pay for. If we want cheap, that's perfectly fine as long as
we don't bitch about the consequences. If we want well done and
fabulous, we either have to pay good $$ or educate ourselves fully in
order to get that result. "

I don't see how cheap has anything to do with this situation. Price
didn't appear to be an issue when she chose the plumber to replace the
sink. I agree with the posters who now say it is the plumber's
responsibility to fix this correctly. He provided the sink. When he
removed the old one and determined that the new one had too small a rim
to cover the countertop properly, he should have stopped right there.
He could have taken the new sink back and very likely found other sinks
that have a slightly wider rim. Problem solved. Instead, he went
ahead and did a half assed job. And I think we've all seen people
charged all kinds of prices, both high and low for crap work.

If he hasn't damaged the sink, the best solution would appear to be for
him to return it and get the right one.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 14:47:09 -0500, in misc.consumers.house "Don
Phillipson"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..

The plumber purchased the sink.

It took 3 dozen posts before the thread provided this
information. . . .
Since the plumber bought the sink to match the
countertop, and failed to fit it accurately, he may
be held responsible for either repair or replacement.


The way I see it the plumber destroyed my counter top.

exactly --- UNLESS -- he told you it was too small and how he would "work
around it" and you signed something saying this was ok - then you are
responsible

In article . com,
says...

"The point, Banty, that we all have learned here is that we truly get
what we pay for. If we want cheap, that's perfectly fine as long as
we don't bitch about the consequences. If we want well done and
fabulous, we either have to pay good $$ or educate ourselves fully in
order to get that result. "

I don't see how cheap has anything to do with this situation. Price
didn't appear to be an issue when she chose the plumber to replace the
sink. I agree with the posters who now say it is the plumber's
responsibility to fix this correctly. He provided the sink. When he
removed the old one and determined that the new one had too small a rim
to cover the countertop properly, he should have stopped right there.
He could have taken the new sink back and very likely found other sinks
that have a slightly wider rim. Problem solved. Instead, he went
ahead and did a half assed job. And I think we've all seen people
charged all kinds of prices, both high and low for crap work.

If he hasn't damaged the sink, the best solution would appear to be for
him to return it and get the right one.


But sinks aren't standard, and counter tops are cut to fit the sink. It sounds
like she didn't get the sink, it came with the house. It's fairly unlikely that
the plumber could be expected to find a sink to fit right in. So he kludged it.
Maybe he wasn't quite on the up and up about the chances for success and what
kind of compromises may have needed to be made to try to just replace the sink.
But for several reasons I don't have full faith in the O.P's telling either.

Doing a cheap workaround sometimes isn't necessarily a *bad* thing. But you got
to accept that that's what it is.

I had a vinyl bathtub break (came with the house, only bathroom) and I knew I'd
want to upgrade the whole bathroom at some point, but couldnt' afford it at the
time. So I got the tub that I really wanted (cast iron) istalled, but had the
old surround tacked up around it. Real kludgy. Had to followup with duct tape
after about a year

But that's just IT - it's a *temporary fix*. No one got phreaky over needing to
patch it up a little more. About two and half years later when I could afford
it, the bathroom was fully remodeled with the bathtub there.

Maybe there should be a standard set of sink 'footprints'. To my knowledge,
there isnt'. Unless there is, without scads of luck, a replacement will be
non-ideal. And to do the job right means replacing everything that needs to
fit. A lot of things are like that.

If these things are more standard than I think, maybe I'm wrong. But in the
bathroom remod, and the kitchen remod coming up, the sink needs to be available
to get the counter cut.

Banty

"But sinks aren't standard, and counter tops are cut to fit the sink.
It sounds
like she didn't get the sink, it came with the house. It's fairly
unlikely that
the plumber could be expected to find a sink to fit right in. So he
kludged it"

There are many sinks that will fit in the same size opening,
particularly the low/moderate cost ones. I just took out an
inexpensive double bowl 16 year old American Std. stainless sink and
replaced it with a modern Kohler very deep double bowl cast iron sink
with no major problem. If that were not generally possible, it would
be a disaster. If you wanted a new sink, you'd have to change the
countertop. The problems start to occur when you have morons doing
the work. Like, in my case, the opening was almost too big for the new
sink to work. The reason? The opening was cut far bigger than needed
for the stainless steel sink.

There is no excuse for kludging it. When it was obvious the opening
was too big, a professional would have told her the problem and then
try to find other sinks that would fit correctly.

"Doing a cheap workaround sometimes isn't necessarily a *bad* thing.
But you got
to accept that that's what it is. "

If by cheap, you mean half-assed, which is what this guy did, then it
is in fact a bad thing.

"Maybe there should be a standard set of sink 'footprints'. To my
knowledge,
there isnt'. Unless there is, without scads of luck, a replacement
will be
non-ideal. And to do the job right means replacing everything that
needs to
fit. A lot of things are like that. "

There isn't an absolute standard. However, if you go look at the same
type sink, eg double bowl, from most manufacturers, you will find that
with a hole cut for most of them, you can easily just drop in the same
type sink, or even slightly different styles, from the other
manufacturers. The problem with all this is that the plumber, finding
the sink he picked, never had a discussion with the homeowner as to
possible solutions. He just put a sink that is too small into the
existing opening. And that is a half-assed plumber.

"But in the bathroom remod, and the kitchen remod coming up, the sink
needs to be available
to get the counter cut. "

Yes, because if you're doing new countertops, that's the correct way.
That's entirely different than doing a sink replacement, in which case
the most critical thing is making sure the new sink can be fitted in
the existing opening.

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 16:17:25 GMT, in misc.consumers.house "Lady"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 14:47:09 -0500, in misc.consumers.house "Don
Phillipson"
wrote:

wrote in message
...

The plumber purchased the sink.

It took 3 dozen posts before the thread provided this
information. . . .
Since the plumber bought the sink to match the
countertop, and failed to fit it accurately, he may
be held responsible for either repair or replacement.


The way I see it the plumber destroyed my counter top.

exactly --- UNLESS -- he told you it was too small and how he would "work
around it" and you signed something saying this was ok - then you are
responsible



He brought the sink took out the old sink showed me a 1mm gap and said he would
caulk it. He's a plumber who claims to have 30 years experience and he charges
$80 per hour. I was not even sure why he was showing it to me. He never
explained that it could be a problem. I'm not a plumber.

He should have know that it would not work. Instead he hoped he could get away
with it. Well I've not been billed yet. The estimate for the sink and some
repairs to the bathtub faucet was over $500.00.