On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 01:48:52 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

UPDATE:

After many hours of trying to get the settings just right, just now
I was able to tremendously extend the WiFi range of my laptop, as a test,
simply by connecting a Ubiquiti NanoBridge M2 feedhorn (sans dish antenna)
to the Ethernet port.

Here is my signal strength at the feedhorn, as seen through the laptop:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2869/1...ab5e1de1_o.png

Notice the noise is a tiny at -99dBm while the signal strength is huge
at -44dBm (with a SNR of -44 - -99 = 55, if I did the math right).

This gets me 130Mbps between my Linux laptop & the home broadband router.

Here are the network settings that were necessary to make this work:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2854/1...139418fd_o.png

And, here are the access-point specific wireless settings to make it
connect to my home broadband router's SSID:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3733/1...45bef4c0_o.png

With the dish antenna, that Nanobridge M2 has a gain of 41dB (i.e.,
23dBm transmit power + 18dBi antenna gain), which is far too powerful.

Since that calculates (if I did the math right?) to over 12 Watts, I
had to lower the gain by removing the dish ... which dropped the gain
down to 23dBm + 3dBi, or 26dB (which is a 0.4 Watts).

Even that was far too powerful for use in my house, so I dropped the
transmit power of the feedhorn radio down to 6dBm, so with the 3dBi
feedhorn-only gain, the screenshots above are at 6+3=9dB (0.008W) EIRP.

Even with the gain reduced as low as I could make it, I still got
a connection strength of -44dBm and a connect speed of 130Mbps, so,
it's at least a proof of concept that this is one way to extend the
WiFi range of your laptop.

My goal will be to try to connect to my home broadband router from a
mile or two down the road... so that's what I'll try next.

PS: Jeff Liebermann should be proud of me!

Here's the howto I wrote up ... (it can also be used at coffee shops!)
BEGIN: How to use a Nanobridge M2 as your laptop wireless NIC!

0. I reset the Nanobridge M2 radio to default settings as per this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-h48wELJtw

I connected the POE to the Nanobridge M2.
I reset the Nanobridge M2 back to factory defaults by holding the reset button down for 10sec (until all LEDs flashed)

1. I set the Nanobridge M2 to be the Linux laptop wireless NIC as per this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIRHEwDOD5g

2. I turned off the wireless NIC inside the laptop with the hardware switch.
Note: I could just as well have run this command on Ubuntu 13.10:
$ sudo ifconfig wlan0 down

3. I set the IP address of the laptop to be on the 192.168.1.XX subnet.
$ sudo ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.99
$ ifconfig (make sure eth0 is 192.168.1.something & that wlan0 is not up)

4. I physically connected the Nanobridge M2 to the eth0 port of the laptop.

5. I pinged the Nanobridge M2
$ ping 192.168.1.20
PING 192.168.1.20 (192.168.1.20) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 192.168.1.20: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.572 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.20: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.460 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.20: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.286 ms
etc. (control C to escape)

6. I logged into the Nanobridge M2
$ netscape 192.168.1.20 (ubnt, ubnt)

7. I set the "Network" tab as follows:
AirOS:Network
Router (default is Bridge)
WLAN Network Settings-DHCP (default is DHCP)
LAN Network Settings-IP Address-192.168.10.20 (default is 192.168.1.1)
[x]Enable NAT
[x]Enable DHCP Server
Range Start=192.168.10.100
Range End =192.168.10.200
Change-Apply

8. I rebooted the Ubuntu PC (with the wlan0 card still turned off)

9. I set eth0 to be on the same (new) subnet as the Nanobridge M2:
$ sudo ifconfig eth0 192.168.10.101

10. I pinged the radio:
$ ping 192.168.10.1
PING 192.168.10.1 (192.168.10.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 192.168.10.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=1.15 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.255 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.310 ms
etc. (control + C to escape)

$ ping 192.168.10.20
PING 192.168.10.20 (192.168.10.20) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=1.71 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.308 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.242 ms
etc. (control + C to escape)

11. I logged into the Nanobridge M2:
$ netscape http://192.168.10.20 (ubnt, ubnt)

12. I set up the "Wireless" tab to connect to the home broadband router SSID:
AirOS:Wireless
SSID-Select (I sorted the signals by signal strength & encryption)
I selected my WPA2-PSK encrypted network SSID.
I scrolled to the bottom & hit select.
Change-Apply

Note: I also had to set the DNS server by turning off DNS proxy
Primary DNS server = 8.8.8.8
Secondary DNS server = 4.4.4.2

Voila!

Once I set up DNS (which wasn't described in the video), I was able to
connect to the Internet, and, in fact, am using this connection to type
this up to help myself (in the future) and others.

END OF: How to use a Nanobridge M2 as your laptop wireless NIC!

On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 09:04:08 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

This gets me 130Mbps between my Linux laptop & the home broadband router.

Of course, that 130Mbps is only between the laptop and the router.

The actual Internet speeds from my rooftop antenna to the Internet,
about 20 miles away from a real wire, is almost ten times slower than
those speeds, at about 10ms ping, 19 Mbps down, & 18 Mbps up:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3743/1...187217bd_o.png

One mistake I made that I just corrected is that I hadn't enabled the
NTP time server on the Nanobridge M2, which I hadn't used for months,
so the time & date were off in the prior screenshots.

Here's the latest, with the power dialed down as low as I can possibly
make it, and even then, I get -39dBm signal strength from my laptop
to my home broadband router, across floors and walls in the house:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3746/1...a5354629_o.png

I can't wait until daylight to see how far I can go to connect my
laptop to my home broadband router.

ADVANTAGE: This method should extend the WiFi range of the laptop up
to a few miles (depends on the antenna & access point though).

DISADVANTAGE: 120V power is necessary to run the POE, so, I can't
do it on foot; but I can test it a mile or two away from the house
in my car with an inverter.

Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 01:48:52 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

UPDATE:

After many hours of trying to get the settings just right, just now
I was able to tremendously extend the WiFi range of my laptop, as a test,
simply by connecting a Ubiquiti NanoBridge M2 feedhorn (sans dish antenna)
to the Ethernet port.

Here is my signal strength at the feedhorn, as seen through the laptop:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2869/1...ab5e1de1_o.png

Notice the noise is a tiny at -99dBm while the signal strength is huge
at -44dBm (with a SNR of -44 - -99 = 55, if I did the math right).

This gets me 130Mbps between my Linux laptop & the home broadband router.

Here are the network settings that were necessary to make this work:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2854/1...139418fd_o.png

And, here are the access-point specific wireless settings to make it
connect to my home broadband router's SSID:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3733/1...45bef4c0_o.png

With the dish antenna, that Nanobridge M2 has a gain of 41dB (i.e.,
23dBm transmit power + 18dBi antenna gain), which is far too powerful.

Since that calculates (if I did the math right?) to over 12 Watts, I
had to lower the gain by removing the dish ... which dropped the gain
down to 23dBm + 3dBi, or 26dB (which is a 0.4 Watts).

Even that was far too powerful for use in my house, so I dropped the
transmit power of the feedhorn radio down to 6dBm, so with the 3dBi
feedhorn-only gain, the screenshots above are at 6+3=9dB (0.008W) EIRP.

Even with the gain reduced as low as I could make it, I still got
a connection strength of -44dBm and a connect speed of 130Mbps, so,
it's at least a proof of concept that this is one way to extend the
WiFi range of your laptop.

My goal will be to try to connect to my home broadband router from a
mile or two down the road... so that's what I'll try next.

PS: Jeff Liebermann should be proud of me!

Here's the howto I wrote up ... (it can also be used at coffee shops!)
BEGIN: How to use a Nanobridge M2 as your laptop wireless NIC!

0. I reset the Nanobridge M2 radio to default settings as per this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-h48wELJtw

I connected the POE to the Nanobridge M2.
I reset the Nanobridge M2 back to factory defaults by holding the reset button down for 10sec (until all LEDs flashed)

1. I set the Nanobridge M2 to be the Linux laptop wireless NIC as per this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIRHEwDOD5g

2. I turned off the wireless NIC inside the laptop with the hardware switch.
Note: I could just as well have run this command on Ubuntu 13.10:
$ sudo ifconfig wlan0 down

3. I set the IP address of the laptop to be on the 192.168.1.XX subnet.
$ sudo ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.99
$ ifconfig (make sure eth0 is 192.168.1.something & that wlan0 is not up)

4. I physically connected the Nanobridge M2 to the eth0 port of the laptop.

5. I pinged the Nanobridge M2
$ ping 192.168.1.20
PING 192.168.1.20 (192.168.1.20) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 192.168.1.20: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.572 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.20: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.460 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.20: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.286 ms
etc. (control C to escape)

6. I logged into the Nanobridge M2
$ netscape 192.168.1.20 (ubnt, ubnt)

7. I set the "Network" tab as follows:
AirOS:Network
Router (default is Bridge)
WLAN Network Settings-DHCP (default is DHCP)
LAN Network Settings-IP Address-192.168.10.20 (default is 192.168.1.1)
[x]Enable NAT
[x]Enable DHCP Server
Range Start=192.168.10.100
Range End =192.168.10.200
Change-Apply

8. I rebooted the Ubuntu PC (with the wlan0 card still turned off)

9. I set eth0 to be on the same (new) subnet as the Nanobridge M2:
$ sudo ifconfig eth0 192.168.10.101

10. I pinged the radio:
$ ping 192.168.10.1
PING 192.168.10.1 (192.168.10.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 192.168.10.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=1.15 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.255 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.310 ms
etc. (control + C to escape)

$ ping 192.168.10.20
PING 192.168.10.20 (192.168.10.20) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=1.71 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.308 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.242 ms
etc. (control + C to escape)

11. I logged into the Nanobridge M2:
$ netscape http://192.168.10.20 (ubnt, ubnt)

12. I set up the "Wireless" tab to connect to the home broadband router SSID:
AirOS:Wireless
SSID-Select (I sorted the signals by signal strength & encryption)
I selected my WPA2-PSK encrypted network SSID.
I scrolled to the bottom & hit select.
Change-Apply

Note: I also had to set the DNS server by turning off DNS proxy
Primary DNS server = 8.8.8.8
Secondary DNS server = 4.4.4.2

Voila!

Once I set up DNS (which wasn't described in the video), I was able to
connect to the Internet, and, in fact, am using this connection to type
this up to help myself (in the future) and others.

END OF: How to use a Nanobridge M2 as your laptop wireless NIC!

Hi,
Do you work fpor Ubiquiti? Nothing new you are doing there.

On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 06:53:35 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Do you work for Ubiquiti?
Nothing new you are doing there.

Hi Tony,

Two things I've always wanted to do:
1. Increase the range of my wifi signal *inside* the house
2. Connect to access points which are miles away

What I was documented is the first step, which is to increase the
range. The second step is to connect to an access point that is miles
away from that laptop.

I haven't done *that* yet, but, the potential now exists.

First, I had to be able to connect to an access point, period.
It took me a long time to figure out *how* to do that.

Now that I've done that, my *next* test is to see if I can connect
to my home broadband router from a couple of miles away.

It will be fun, to see if I can do that (but I need to find my inverter
because this particular solution requires 120volts).

I'll report back if/when I'm successful.

On 12/16/2013 07:12 AM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 06:53:35 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Do you work for Ubiquiti?
Nothing new you are doing there.

Hi Tony,

Two things I've always wanted to do:
1. Increase the range of my wifi signal *inside* the house
2. Connect to access points which are miles away

What I was documented is the first step, which is to increase the
range. The second step is to connect to an access point that is miles
away from that laptop.

I haven't done *that* yet, but, the potential now exists.

First, I had to be able to connect to an access point, period.
It took me a long time to figure out *how* to do that.

Now that I've done that, my *next* test is to see if I can connect
to my home broadband router from a couple of miles away.

It will be fun, to see if I can do that (but I need to find my inverter
because this particular solution requires 120volts).

I'll report back if/when I'm successful.


There's a store in Chicago that specializes in DX WiFi. They are called
3gstore.com They also have forums for wireless hacks. Very busy boards.

I am not accusing you of working for Ubiquiti but you cite laptop use which implies mobility: Can this setup actually be used ad hoc in some public space to extend range? Or does it depend on careful setting up, positioning stability (surely the antenna can't move?) and directionality when in use!! I have WiFI Analyser installed on my mobile phone but didn't think there was any app short of about $5000 which can tell you where to point the dish?

Is all you are doing analogous to using a larger ear (a whole dish) to hear more?

Can the same effect be achieved by turning the metal handle of a tea strainer inside the dish part and pointing that at the WiFi source (if you can figure out where it is)?

Put another way, if you are so dissatisfied with the performance of your laptop's aerial (and I am sure you are right, hence my comments about using a NIC inside a tea strainer) has anyone done any comparative reviews of different pieces of equipment like the Linksys WRE54G running DD-WRT?

In general, the more-expensive routers have higher output. You can also get
greater range by (obviously!) putting the router on the top of a bookshelf, or
Velcroing it to a non-conductive door.

I've never fully understood how a range extender can work properly. When
you're close to the computer, you'll be picking up a signal from both the
computer's radio and the extender.

On 12/18/2013 06:43 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
In general, the more-expensive routers have higher output. You can also
get greater range by (obviously!) putting the router on the top of a
bookshelf, or Velcroing it to a non-conductive door.

I've never fully understood how a range extender can work properly. When
you're close to the computer, you'll be picking up a signal from both
the computer's radio and the extender.

http://www.evdoforums.com/

It's an entire universe then...

On 12/18/2013 06:33 AM, Amanda Riphnykhazova wrote:
Put another way, if you are so dissatisfied with the performance of your laptop's aerial (and I am sure you are right, hence my comments about using a NIC inside a tea strainer) has anyone done any comparative reviews of different pieces of equipment like the Linksys WRE54G running DD-WRT?


http://www.evdoforums.com/

3gstore.com

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?251759-WiFi-DX

On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 06:53:35 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Do you work fpor Ubiquiti? Nothing new you are doing there.

Naah. I *wish* I worked for Ubiquiti though, as I really like that they
make equipment that is *powerful* and easy to use!

I'm really salivating now over the UniFy access point wifi extender:
http://www.rakuten.com/prod/microcom...ngId=263046258

A friend and I installed one at a neighbor's house today, and
the WiFi range was FANTASTIC! It went to every single room in the house!

We even turned off the SSID from the Netgear home broadband router, because
it was no longer needed, except to be used simply as a wired switch for the
access point and desktop computer.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 06:25:36 -0800, Amanda Riphnykhazova wrote:

I am not accusing you of working for Ubiquiti

Heh heh ... I *wish* I worked for Ubiquiti! But, if I did, I'd probably
know what I was doing!

you cite laptop use which implies mobility:
Can this setup actually be used ad hoc in some public space to extend range?

Yes. And no. Depends on what you mean by "mobility".

I've tried the classic USB WiFi range extenders, for example, and their advantage
is small size (some are dongles, which don't even need AC power while others are
small boxes about the size of a pack of playing cards which also need 120VAC).

The problem I had with these classic range extenders is that they were miserable
to set up on Linux. Absolutely horrid support for the Linux drivers. The reason
is that they're consumer equipment; and the consumer is on Windows or Mac, for
the most part.

So, *for you*, these $100 solutions (give or take $25) *should* work fine to
extend the range of your laptop for a few hundred feet.

On the other hand, the solution I tested out, costs the same (roughly), as
that consumer gear, but, the Nanobridge feed horn solution has far more gain
(both in the transmitter and in the antenna) than the puny consumer gear.

The beauty of the Ubiquiti equipment is that it costs the same as the
consumer gear (give or take a few). But, it's far more powerful.

Personally, I think we're all idiots for buying the consumer gear, mostly
because it's too expensive for too little gain, so everyone has to extend
the range with even more crappy consumer gear.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 06:25:36 -0800, Amanda Riphnykhazova wrote:

Or does it depend on careful setting up, positioning stability
(surely the antenna can't move?) and directionality when in use!!

Yes. You are correct. My results depend on reasonable aiming.

Here is a picture of my ubiquiti feed horn and wires:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3667/1...aa12eba3_o.jpg

That is a 23dBM radio with a 3dBi antenna, which, if you find that
kind of gain in consumer equipment at any price, I'll be amazed.

That's 26dBm of gain, which is 400 milliwatts of power (EIRP).

Now look at these four screenshots, taken during my testing:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2826/1...09969676_o.png
Notice the signal strength with the tail pointed toward the
router was a whopping -38dBm! (that's huge!)

When I tested it, at my house, connected to my laptop ethernet port,
I pointed the tail end of this Nanobridge M2 at the home broadband
router from one floor away, and got fantastic signal strength,
which you can also read on the unit itself by user-settable LEDs:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5527/1...e72406a8_o.jpg

When I pointed the tail *away* from my router, it still had
a connection strength of -61dBm, and, as I twisted the nanobridge
feedhorn around, I obtained values in between.

Now, let's compare that to the Lenovo laptop, which has a high
end Intel Centrino N-spec WiFi card:
$ lspci
SHOWS: Intel Corporation Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (rev 35)

$ iwconfig
SHOWS the NIC has 15dBm transmit power. At 2.4GHz, that gets me
a respectable -54dBm as shown by the results below:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7295/1...a89983fe_o.jpg

Let's summarize:

1. The business-class laptop has a 15dBm NIC with probably about
1/2 dBi to (at most) 1dBi integral antenna, for a gain of
about 16dBm; it garnered a signal strength of -54dBm.

2. Turning off that WiFi NIC, and attaching the 23dBM + 3dBi
Nanobridge M2 feedhorn to the laptop Ethernet port, I get
a signal strength of -38dBm when the antenna is aimed
correctly - which is a stupendous 16dBm more signal than
with the internal laptop card. Since every 3dB is a doubling
of power, that's 2x2x2x2x2=32 times more signal strength!

3. However, with the feedhorn tail purposefully pointed AWAY from
the router, I still get a respectable signal strength of -61dBM,
but, that signal strength is four times less than what I had at
the laptop without the feedhorn.

So, yes. You are correct. The signal strength *does* depend on
aiming; but, when it's aimed right, you can easily get thirty times
the signal strength than your (high end) laptop has alone.

And, best of all, there is absolutely no need for *any* drivers!
This is more important for folks like me who are on Linux, than it
is for Windows or Mac users - but - it's still nice to know that there
are absolutely no drivers needed - since the interface is via the
standard Ethernet port of your laptop and the web interface to the
radio.

YMMV

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 06:25:36 -0800, Amanda Riphnykhazova wrote:

I have WiFI Analyser installed on my mobile phone but
didn't think there was any app short of about $5000 which
can tell you where to point the dish?

Ah. Alignment, while problematic with consumer equipment,
is absolutely beautiful with this professional equipment!

Let me count the ways ...

Notice I'm *not* using the dish that comes with the Nanobridge M2
radio. I'm just using this feedhorn and the POE power supply and
an Ethernet cord connected to the laptop, so, my antenna is 3dBi
(which isn't all that directional) as opposed to 18dBi with the
dish (which is still not all that directional):
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3667/1...aa12eba3_o.jpg

Even so, notice that the feedhorn has a set of LEDs (which the user
can configure) which tell you instantly what the signal strength
is at any one moment:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5527/1...e72406a8_o.jpg

Also bear in mind, that antenna installers are often in precarious
situations on top of poles and trees and the like, so, there is,
in addition, a visual signal strength meter, as shown he
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2826/1...09969676_o.png

And, notice the unchecked box in that last screenshot:
"Alignment Beep"
which beeps like Sputnik telling you the signal strength even if
you had your eyes closed.

Lastly, notice that the main page of the web interface to the
radio also shows you the signal strength and quality metrics:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7448/1...0ac269e1_o.png

Point is, when you're connecting to an access point that you can
barely see with $3,000 Steiner binoculars, alignment is everything.

So, rest assured, you'll *know* exactly where the access point is
in any situation that you're in. So, it won't be hard to point the
feedhorn at the AP, although it might require holding it there to
keep it pointed.

I would think, at a distance of, oh, say, 300 to 500 feet from
a typical Starbucks-style access point, that you would just need
to be pointed generally in the same direction; but I would need
to test this on the road (with an inverter in my car) to be sure.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 06:25:36 -0800, Amanda Riphnykhazova wrote:

Is all you are doing analogous to using a larger ear
(a whole dish) to hear more?

We're getting ten times the gain here ... and, bear in mind,
we're *not* using the 18dBi dish that came with the Nanobridge M2.

I'm just using the 3dBi feedhorn alone, without that dish.
Why?
Because the dish would be too big to carry in my laptop bag!
Plus it would be too big to set up on a Starbucks coffee table!

Given that we're just using the feedhorn, let's compare the specs
of my Lenovo laptop against that of the Nanobridge M2 feedhorn.

Looking up the specs for the antenna gain on my Lenovo W510
laptop, I cant' find a spec on the antenna gain, but I see that
they list all their laptops at no more than 3dBi (I suspect it's
about 1/2 dBi to 1dBi, like most laptops - but I don't know):
http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub.../63y0530_4.pdf

The antenna gain on the Nanobridge M2 feedhorn isn't published either,
but the Nanobridge web server itself reports it as 3dBi:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3733/1...45bef4c0_o.png

The iwconfig command tells me that the laptop NIC is transmitting
at 15dBm of power:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7295/1...a89983fe_o.jpg

While, we know from the specs, that the Nanobridge feedhorn transmits
at 23dBm maximum power.

Given that, and assuming the antenna gain figures above, we are comparing:

LAPTOP = 15dBm + 1dBi = 16dBm (40 milliwatts)
FEEDHORN = 23dBm + 3dBi = 26dBm (400 milliwatts)

Notice the feedhorn is ten times more powerful than the laptop alone.
Now, let's compare that with my real-world test results:

LAPTOP gets -55dBm (0.003 microwatts)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7295/1...a89983fe_o.jpg

FEEDHORN gets -39dBm (0.1 microwatts)
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3746/1...a5354629_o.png

This is two orders of magnitude more power, in my real-world test!
For the same cost as consumer equipment, which isn't as powerful.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 06:25:36 -0800, Amanda Riphnykhazova wrote:

Can the same effect be achieved by turning the metal handle of
a tea strainer inside the dish part and pointing that at the
WiFi source (if you can figure out where it is)?

I'm not sure I understand.
I'm not using the 15dBi dish.
I'm just using the 23dBm feedhorn and it's integrated 3dBi antenna.

I connect just the feed horn to the laptop Ethernet port and turn
off the laptop's internal WiFi card.

The feedhorn has no problem pointing at the access point, as I
described in another post, because the feedhorn is designed,
from the start, to be easily aligned to an antenna that is
20 miles way.

So, aligning the feedhorn to an access point inside a coffee
shop that is only, say, a half mile away, is trivial.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 06:33:12 -0800, Amanda Riphnykhazova wrote:

Put another way, if you are so dissatisfied with the performance
of your laptop's aerial (and I am sure you are right, hence my
comments about using a NIC inside a tea strainer) has anyone done
any comparative reviews of different pieces of equipment like the
Linksys WRE54G running DD-WRT?

Hi Amanda,

It's not so much that I'm disappointed with the antenna on my
laptop (which probably has a gain of about 1/2 to 1dBi), that
I'm wanting to get my laptop to connect to an access point that
is as far as a mile or two away.

In that case, there's no hope that the laptop can connect.
It's just not designed to connect more than a few hundred feet.

However, the Nanobridge M2 is designed to connect to an access
point that is as far as ten to twenty miles away.

So, with just the feedhorn, it seems I should be able to extend
the laptop's range at least to a half mile, to maybe a mile.

I have to test this though - but it seems clear that the feedhorn
would easily allow the laptop range to be extended to a few hundred
feet (at the very least).

PS: I don't know how much you can change the power of the Linksys
WRE54G with DD-WRT. I suspect the router default is around 18dBm
(like most consumer routers) with a default antenna of something
like 5dBi - so the range would depend on how much DD-WRT allows
you to change the transmit power - and whether or not you replace
the default antenna with a more directional antenna.

QUESTION: Do you know the dBm & dBi specs for that router and what
DD-WRT can change with respect to the dBm and whether the
antenna is easily removed and replaced?

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 06:43:07 -0800, William Sommerwerck wrote:

In general, the more-expensive routers have higher output.

Hi Dave,

I disagree.

My contention is that the pro radios I'm using are just about the same
price as a high-end consumer router - yet - their power is tremendously higher
in the pro equipment (which is designed to be cheap & powerful).

To make matters worse, it's actually pretty hard to walk into Fryes to
pick out a home broadband router, and to find the antenna and transmitter
gain listed on the box. I've tried, It's damn near impossible.

You know why?

I don't; but, I suspect it's because they're all very weak (probably around
15 to 18dBm with something like 3 to 6 dBi antennas).

So, I agree with you that, to get higher-gain consumer routers, you're going
to pay through the nose, simply because it's really hard to shop intelligently.

Luckily, the gain figures are all published for the pro equipment, since
gain is almost everything when your access point is twenty miles away.

So, my key contention, which is not intuitive, is that the pro equipment
is actually just about the same price as the consumer equipment, but, it's
vastly more powerful.

Take, for example, this $70 MIMO 802.11n access point which you wire to your
modem (or to your router or to a switch):
http://www.wlanparts.com/product/UAP...FeZ7Qgod3k4Aew

It will knock the pants off anything I can find at Fryes at the same price.


Here's the datasheet:
http://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/unifi/UniFi-AP-DS.pdf

I challenge someone to find a more powerful consumer radio in the same price range!
Note: The UAP-LR is 27dBm + 3dBi = 30dBm (1 Watt)

PS: No, I don't work for Ubiquiti - although I wish I did.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 06:43:07 -0800, William Sommerwerck wrote:

You can also get greater range by (obviously!) putting the router
on the top of a bookshelf, or Velcroing it to a non-conductive door.

Hmmmm.... we're talking hundreds of feet greater range.

Just putting a router in a more advantageous spot within an office
isn't going to get you a few hundred feet greater range, in most cases.

It's not a bad idea, of course; but we're talking a goal of orders of
magnitude greater range here ...

I've never fully understood how a range extender can work properly. When
you're close to the computer, you'll be picking up a signal from both the
computer's radio and the extender.

If you're talking about the test I ran, which extended the range of
the laptop (as opposed to extending the range of the router), I had
turned off the laptop's internal radio with the hardware switch on
the side of the laptop.

So, in *my* tests, the only radio was the Nanobridge M2 feedhorn
which was tied to the laptop's Ethernet port.

So, from the laptop's perspective, there was no radio.
There was just a 'wired' ethernet connection.

On 12/21/2013 1:59 AM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 06:53:35 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Do you work fpor Ubiquiti? Nothing new you are doing there.

Naah. I *wish* I worked for Ubiquiti though, as I really like that they
make equipment that is *powerful* and easy to use!

I'm really salivating now over the UniFy access point wifi extender:
http://www.rakuten.com/prod/microcom...ngId=263046258

A friend and I installed one at a neighbor's house today, and
the WiFi range was FANTASTIC! It went to every single room in the house!

We even turned off the SSID from the Netgear home broadband router, because
it was no longer needed, except to be used simply as a wired switch for the
access point and desktop computer.


I bought these for a customer to connect two buildings because the labor
to run an outdoor aerial cable was more than installing the wireless
link. ^_^

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://preview.tinyurl.com/m22nu7u

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/21/2013 1:59 AM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 06:53:35 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Do you work fpor Ubiquiti? Nothing new you are doing there.

Naah. I *wish* I worked for Ubiquiti though, as I really like that they
make equipment that is *powerful* and easy to use!

I'm really salivating now over the UniFy access point wifi extender:

http://www.rakuten.com/prod/microcom...ngId=263046258


A friend and I installed one at a neighbor's house today, and
the WiFi range was FANTASTIC! It went to every single room in the house!

We even turned off the SSID from the Netgear home broadband router,
because
it was no longer needed, except to be used simply as a wired switch
for the
access point and desktop computer.

You mean you turned the radio off? SSID can be hidden or broadcast.
I never heard turning off SSID
Unify is pretty new models. Another DIY source is Mikrotek which may
cost less.

I bought these for a customer to connect two buildings because the labor
to run an outdoor aerial cable was more than installing the wireless
link. ^_^

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


http://preview.tinyurl.com/m22nu7u

TDD

On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 08:00:33 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:


You mean you turned the radio off? SSID can be hidden or broadcast.
I never heard turning off SSID
Unify is pretty new models. Another DIY source is Mikrotek which may
cost less.

We used the Unify $100 6 Watt (yes, 6 Watt!) access point (they call it
Long Range). It gave 5 bars to all the Apple equipment for the first time
ever, in that house, anywhere they wanted it.

Turned out, we moved it, so, now they changed the router setup to have
both the SSID from the router being the same as the SSID from the access
point.

That the access point overpowers the signal of the router (which is on
a different non-overlapping channel) doesn't seem to adversely affect
them.

Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 08:00:33 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:


You mean you turned the radio off? SSID can be hidden or broadcast.
I never heard turning off SSID
Unify is pretty new models. Another DIY source is Mikrotek which may
cost less.

We used the Unify $100 6 Watt (yes, 6 Watt!) access point (they call it
Long Range). It gave 5 bars to all the Apple equipment for the first time
ever, in that house, anywhere they wanted it.

Turned out, we moved it, soHow, now they changed the router setup to have
both the SSID from the router being the same as the SSID from the access
point.

That the access point overpowers the signal of the router (which is on
a different non-overlapping channel) doesn't seem to adversely affect
them.

Hi,
Do you use inSSIDer pro version or even free version? I think having
same SSID is not good. Won't it create confusion when connecting?

On 12/21/2013 09:37 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 08:00:33 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:


You mean you turned the radio off? SSID can be hidden or broadcast.
I never heard turning off SSID
Unify is pretty new models. Another DIY source is Mikrotek which may
cost less.

We used the Unify $100 6 Watt (yes, 6 Watt!) access point (they call it
Long Range). It gave 5 bars to all the Apple equipment for the first time
ever, in that house, anywhere they wanted it.

Turned out, we moved it, soHow, now they changed the router setup to have
both the SSID from the router being the same as the SSID from the access
point.

That the access point overpowers the signal of the router (which is on
a different non-overlapping channel) doesn't seem to adversely affect
them.

Hi,
Do you use inSSIDer pro version or even free version? I think having
same SSID is not good. Won't it create confusion when connecting?


Maybe we should broadcast something so people don't land on a used
channel. 6 Watts spread spectrum? Maybe. Unifi?

On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 22:37:03 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Do you use inSSIDer pro version or even free version? I think having
same SSID is not good. Won't it create confusion when connecting?

Hi Tony,

So far they haven't reported any problems.

The Unifi AP-LR was set up at a neighbor's home, so, I don't have
a scan for it (that scan above is from my home, because I was looking
for a distant WiFi channel 9 interference source that was showing up
in a spectrum analysis run from my rooftop radio):
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7310/1...e93b109b_o.jpg

What I like about the Ubiquiti equipment is sheer POWER! Those
access points are 6 Watts! Compare that to the puny 1/10th of a
Watt of your typical home broadband router.

And, these access points mount like a C02 detector, either on
the wall or on the ceiling, and, they don't need anything but
an Ethernet cable connected to them (as the power supply is
at the other end of the Ethernet cable).

So, for extending WiFi range at home, I am learning all I can about
these things, since they seem to be the right price and power and
they seem to kick consumer equipment's butt!

As for the Android tools to track WiFi access points and SSIDs,
I have InSSIDer freeware on my Android phone and on the laptop.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7364/1...a0cdf3b1_o.gif

On Android, I also use WiFi Analyzer, which, I like better than
InSSIDer. There's also "WiFi Signal Strength", which gives tabular
reports.

Unfortunately, I don't seem to have the technical expertise to get
WiFi Stumbler (aks Kismet, I think) & pcap capture working to tell
me useful information yet inside those packets grabbed over the air,
so, that's my next WiFi project when I get around to it.

On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 05:39:51 -0800, dave wrote:

Maybe we should broadcast something so people don't land on a used
channel. 6 Watts spread spectrum? Maybe. Unifi?

6 Watts only goes so far ...

The houses out here are on 40-acre zoning, so, if you have 79 acres,
you can only build one house. Even though it's Silicon Valley, it's
way up in the mountains above, so, the 6 Watts "shouldn't" be a problem
for this neighbor (who is on over 25 acres and her neighbors are similarly
far apart).

As for those 6 Watts ...

I know that *my* rooftop radio has a 28dBm transmit power plus a 24dBi
antenna gain, which gives me an EIRP of 52dBm, which is a whopping
158 Watts!

So, we're all radiating out here ...

In fact, most of my neighbors have the same equipment as I have, and,
even with all that power bouncing around, my spectrum analysis scans
show signals which all seem to be in the low 10% usage range...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7310/1...e93b109b_o.jpg

I'm not sure what that really means to someone who knows what they
are doing, but, I *think* it means that our bands are not crowded,
although it would be nice to see what other people get for % Usage.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 22:37:03 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

I think having same SSID is not good. Won't it create confusion when connecting?

There are pros and cons to both arguments: using the same SSID on multiple
AP's (on different channels, of course), versus using different SSID's.

When I set up systems for other people, I use the same SSID much more often
than not because it reduces confusion. Most of the people I deal with are
50-90 years old, so having a single SSID to remember is easier for them.
Mobility, as in roaming, is usually not a consideration because they tell me
they always use their laptop in THIS room and they always use their tablet
in THAT room, etc.

On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 13:44:52 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:

When I set up systems for other people, I use the same SSID much more often
than not because it reduces confusion.

Makes sense. These people are like that also. Apple users.

In the last episode of , Tony Hwang
said:

Do you use inSSIDer pro version or even free version? I think having
same SSID is not good. Won't it create confusion when connecting?

If the underlying networks are bridged, this is a supported
configuration and it allows client machines to move between the access
points seamlessly.

If the networks are not bridged, this will cause IP conflicts and other
problems.

--
I walked into a bar the other day and ordered a double.
The bartender brought out a guy who looked just like me.

On 12/23/2013 6:23 PM, DevilsPGD wrote:
In the last episode of , Tony Hwang
said:

Do you use inSSIDer pro version or even free version? I think having
same SSID is not good. Won't it create confusion when connecting?

If the underlying networks are bridged, this is a supported
configuration and it allows client machines to move between the access
points seamlessly.

If the networks are not bridged, this will cause IP conflicts and other
problems.


I call it dueling routers. ^_^

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:

I call it dueling routers. ^_^


As opposed to dualing routers? ;-)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:41:31 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


The Daring Dufas wrote:

I call it dueling routers. ^_^


As opposed to dualing routers? ;-)

I have five but they just make sawdust.

On 12/24/2013 11:41 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

I call it dueling routers. ^_^


As opposed to dualing routers? ;-)


Or the dualism of routers. ^_^

TDD

On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 10:04:13 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
wrote:

So, my key contention, which is not intuitive, is that the pro equipment
is actually just about the same price as the consumer equipment, but, it's
vastly more powerful.

Everyone seems to have different definitions of what constitutes
"carrier class" or "professional" wireless hardware. For me, it's
quite simple. Will it do SNMP and can it be monitored and managed
with 3rd party tools?
http://wiki.ubnt.com/SNMP_and_MRTG_Monitoring
I think you'll find that SNMP support will make a good dividing line
between consumer and pro. The average home user doesn't need SNMP
even if it's provided. I need it to keep a mess of access points and
routers alive and provide reports and pretty graphs to keep the
customer happy. ISP's need SNMP to allow a diverse collection of
dissimilar hardware to be monitored and managed with a single software
tool:
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-free-network-monitoring-tools/


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 10:11:28 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Everyone seems to have different definitions of what constitutes
"carrier class" or "professional" wireless hardware. For me, it's
quite simple. Will it do SNMP and can it be monitored and managed
with 3rd party tools?

Interesting. I've got SNMP on all the Ubiquit radios, and,
I've never used it.

Although, that was precisely your point!

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 10:27:49 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

There's nothing wrong with using the same SSID on multiple access
points. It's a good idea to have put each AP on a different RF
channel, so that they don't interfere with each other.

Hi Jeff,
That's what we did. We used ch 1 & 6 so as not to overlap.

I'm really starting to like these access points, although,
the "controller" software is a pain.

For example, we tried to set up a second access point at
another site, and the first access point setup kept getting
in the way.

Had we known, we would have just wiped out the controller
software on our PC, before starting.

If they just put a web server on these Unify access points,
it would make it easier for the consumer. But, other than
the lousy controller software setup (which, in effect, is
merely a login shell for the access point), these Ubiquiti
Unify long-range access points are nice for consumer use.

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 10:27:49 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

You have to manually disconnect from the first access
point, before the client radio will try to find a
better connection.

This is interesting.

I haven't set this up at my own home, so, I'm only
going off what the neighbors are saying, so, we'll
keep this caveat in mind.

However ... just guessing ... it would seem to me
that, if we use the same SSID, that the STRONGEST
should win, and, if one disconnects, it *should*
(logically anyway) switch seamlessly over to the
stronger signal as the person roams the home.

I'll need more data from the neighbors to confirm
or discount that theory though ...

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 20:51:35 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 10:27:49 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

You have to manually disconnect from the first access
point, before the client radio will try to find a
better connection.

This is interesting.

Everything I write is interesting. Sometimes, it's even accurate.

However ... just guessing ... it would seem to me
that, if we use the same SSID, that the STRONGEST
should win, and, if one disconnects, it *should*
(logically anyway) switch seamlessly over to the
stronger signal as the person roams the home.

http://www.intel.com/support/wireless/wlan/sb/cs-015906.htm
Fat chance. That's the way it should work. Instead, what happens is
that the client will remain connected to the initial access point, no
matter how weak or disgusting a signal it offers. Even if turn off
the client device, it will try to reconnect to the same initial access
point, even if there's a stronger/better signal with the same SSID
evailable. Even if you intentionally disconnect, the client will
retain the MAC address of the initial access point. When you try to
reconnect, it will try that MAC address first.

Intel seems to have gotten the clue and offers a setting as to how
"aggressive" the client will act in retaining a connection:
http://www.intel.com/support/wireless/wlan/sb/CS-030101.htm
It's not a total solution, but does work rather well on my various
laptops.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 19:43:15 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 10:11:28 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Everyone seems to have different definitions of what constitutes
"carrier class" or "professional" wireless hardware. For me, it's
quite simple. Will it do SNMP and can it be monitored and managed
with 3rd party tools?

Interesting. I've got SNMP on all the Ubiquit radios, and,
I've never used it.

Well, it's time you tried it. Something like this, for your link to
your WISP, is what you should eventually get:
http://community.ubnt.com/t5/airMax-General-Discussion/Signal-Noise-history/td-p/48143

Basic Ubiquiti instructions:
http://wiki.ubnt.com/SNMP_and_MRTG_Monitoring
Do the first step to enable SNMP. Also, download ALL the MIB files
listed at the bottom of the page. You'll need them later.

SNMP "Community" is a lousy name for password. Depending on your
product, there are usually two community names. One for read-only
access. The other for write access. Use the read-only for now.

There's also PRTG if you want graphs:
http://www.ireasoning.com/mibbrowser.shtml
http://www.paessler.com/prtg/screenshots
http://www.paessler.com/manuals/prtg/quick_start_guide.htm
There are also Android and iPhone versions of the software.

There are others, but I think PRTG is the easiest MIB browser to get
started.

Although, that was precisely your point!

Yep. The limiting factor is that to do SNMP properly, one needs a
dedicated "management workstation" also known as a server or data
dumpster. SNMP can potentially generate plenty of data and traffic.
Most home users don't want to deal with a dedicated data collector,
even though it can be done on a Raspberry Pi, a media server, or some
NAS boxes.
http://www.supagusti.tk/computer/raspberrypi/160-installing-mrtg-on-your-pi
http://n00blab.com/cacti-pi/
However, such servers are mandatory for running a WISP.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

wrote:

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:41:31 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


The Daring Dufas wrote:

I call it dueling routers. ^_^


As opposed to dualing routers? ;-)

I have five but they just make sawdust.


Stop using them on ultra liberal idiots, and let the termites finish
them off.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.