Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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The following might be of interest. More likely it will provoke a "Duh. I
knew that." response.

Since last July, I've had occasional problems with my cell phone's charger.
The plug sometimes refused to make stable contact. The other day it got so
bad I couldn't charge the phone.

I stopped by the nearest Sprint office, and was given the runaround by two
smiling b****es. They had no replacement chargers, nor could they order one.
But they would be perfectly happy to sell me a new phone. I told them this
was unacceptable -- and illegal -- but they wouldn't budge. Oh, and they
didn't have the adapter that would allow them to download the phone's
contents to a new phone. "We don't stock that." Naturally.

The charger's plug was dirty and appeared slightly bent. One of the Bs took
it to the tech, who cleaned it. The cleaning did no good. (I could see only
a minor reduction in the crud.) I left the store contemplating various forms
of legally permissible revenge. (I intend to visit the nearby police station
and get their views on such things.)

I decided to give the plug a proper cleaning with DeOxit. It removed almost
all the schmutz. I also put DeOxit on the cleaned plug and shoved it into
the jack for a while. (This helps remove junk you can't directly reach.)

Needless to say, the charger is now working much better. It's not perfect,
but it's reliable enough. (I've ordered a charger that connects to the
phone's 18-pin interface jack.)

The moral of this? I guess it's that because the bottle's label reads
"contact cleaner", doesn't mean it really cleans contacts.

--
"We already know the answers -- we just haven't asked the right
questions." -- Edwin Land


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"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
The following might be of interest. More likely it will provoke a "Duh. I
knew that." response.

Since last July, I've had occasional problems with my cell phone's
charger.
The plug sometimes refused to make stable contact. The other day it got so
bad I couldn't charge the phone.

I stopped by the nearest Sprint office, and was given the runaround by two
smiling b****es. They had no replacement chargers, nor could they order
one.
But they would be perfectly happy to sell me a new phone. I told them this
was unacceptable -- and illegal -- but they wouldn't budge. Oh, and they
didn't have the adapter that would allow them to download the phone's
contents to a new phone. "We don't stock that." Naturally.

The charger's plug was dirty and appeared slightly bent. One of the Bs
took
it to the tech, who cleaned it. The cleaning did no good. (I could see
only
a minor reduction in the crud.) I left the store contemplating various
forms
of legally permissible revenge. (I intend to visit the nearby police
station
and get their views on such things.)

I decided to give the plug a proper cleaning with DeOxit. It removed
almost
all the schmutz. I also put DeOxit on the cleaned plug and shoved it into
the jack for a while. (This helps remove junk you can't directly reach.)

Needless to say, the charger is now working much better. It's not perfect,
but it's reliable enough. (I've ordered a charger that connects to the
phone's 18-pin interface jack.)

The moral of this? I guess it's that because the bottle's label reads
"contact cleaner", doesn't mean it really cleans contacts.

--
"We already know the answers -- we just haven't asked the right
questions." -- Edwin Land





Er, does all this not actually point to the phone being the problem rather
than the charger?


Gareth.

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"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...

Er, does all this not actually point to the phone being the problem
rather than the charger?


Excellent question. The fact that properly cleaning plug resolved most --
though not all -- of the problem suggests that both and plug and jack have
problems.

The possibility that the jack is not in the best of shape is why I bought a
charger that works through the 18-pin interface.


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On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 10:41:38 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

The following might be of interest. More likely it will provoke a "Duh. I
knew that." response.

Since last July, I've had occasional problems with my cell phone's charger.
The plug sometimes refused to make stable contact. The other day it got so
bad I couldn't charge the phone.

I stopped by the nearest Sprint office, and was given the runaround by two
smiling b****es. They had no replacement chargers, nor could they order one.
But they would be perfectly happy to sell me a new phone. I told them this
was unacceptable -- and illegal -- but they wouldn't budge. Oh, and they
didn't have the adapter that would allow them to download the phone's
contents to a new phone. "We don't stock that." Naturally.

The charger's plug was dirty and appeared slightly bent. One of the Bs took
it to the tech, who cleaned it. The cleaning did no good. (I could see only
a minor reduction in the crud.) I left the store contemplating various forms
of legally permissible revenge. (I intend to visit the nearby police station
and get their views on such things.)

I decided to give the plug a proper cleaning with DeOxit. It removed almost
all the schmutz. I also put DeOxit on the cleaned plug and shoved it into
the jack for a while. (This helps remove junk you can't directly reach.)

Needless to say, the charger is now working much better. It's not perfect,
but it's reliable enough. (I've ordered a charger that connects to the
phone's 18-pin interface jack.)

The moral of this? I guess it's that because the bottle's label reads
"contact cleaner", doesn't mean it really cleans contacts.


There's a reason Motorola used gold on the charger and battery
contacts of their public service radios - no corrosion, no oxidation,
extremely low resistance contacts.
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"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...

Er, does all this not actually point to the phone being the problem
rather than the charger?


Excellent question. The fact that properly cleaning plug resolved most --
though not all -- of the problem suggests that both and plug and jack have
problems.

The possibility that the jack is not in the best of shape is why I bought
a
charger that works through the 18-pin interface.




It may also suggest that cleaning the plug also indirectly cleaned the jack,
which was the culprit all along.

Which may have been what the "smiling b****es" were trying to tell you, but
you wouldn't listen.



Gareth.



Gareth.



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It may also suggest that cleaning the plug also indirectly cleaned the
jack, which was the culprit all along.
Which may have been what the "smiling b****es" were trying to tell you,
but you wouldn't listen.


I'm supposed to pay attention to people who are trained /not/ to help the
customer? All /they/ told me was "We can't help you -- unless you want to
throw away this phone and buy a new one." I'm supposed to respect that?

Don't blame the victim.

I was fully aware /before/ I went in that the problem could have been with
the charger, the jack, or both. They were unable to provide a substitute
charger, which would have clarified where the problem lay. Whose fault was
that?


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"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
It may also suggest that cleaning the plug also indirectly cleaned the
jack, which was the culprit all along.
Which may have been what the "smiling b****es" were trying to tell you,
but you wouldn't listen.


I'm supposed to pay attention to people who are trained /not/ to help the
customer? All /they/ told me was "We can't help you -- unless you want to
throw away this phone and buy a new one." I'm supposed to respect that?

Don't blame the victim.

I was fully aware /before/ I went in that the problem could have been with
the charger, the jack, or both. They were unable to provide a substitute
charger, which would have clarified where the problem lay. Whose fault was
that?





But you might have paid attention to the fact that they know the product,
and quite probably know more about the problem than you do.
This is probably not the first time they have experienced this.

I kind of suspect you went in there with an attitude they did not
appreciate, suggesting you know more about this fault than they do, hence
them giving you "the runaround".


Can't say I blame them, if that is indeed the case.



Gareth.

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But you might have paid attention to the fact that they know the product,
and quite probably know more about the problem than you do.
This is probably not the first time they have experienced this.


These people /know nothing/.

How many years of experience does it take to know that /any/ jack/plug
interface is subject to wear, tear, and breakdown? You have to study
advanced engineering at MIT to learn that, don't you?

The problem is that they did not have replacement parts -- which is required
by law -- and they had nothing on hand to confirm or deny my diagnosis of
"bad charger". (I did tell them that it wasn't clear whether the charger,
the phone, or both, were at fault.) And if I'd bought a new phone, they
couldn't transfer the data on the old phone.

ALL THEY COULD OFFER was "Throw it away and buy a new one. We don't give a
damn about your having to trash a working phone, or that you'll lose
everything on the phone, and have to re-enter it by hand."

Dig?


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"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
But you might have paid attention to the fact that they know the product,
and quite probably know more about the problem than you do.
This is probably not the first time they have experienced this.


These people /know nothing/.

How many years of experience does it take to know that /any/ jack/plug
interface is subject to wear, tear, and breakdown? You have to study
advanced engineering at MIT to learn that, don't you?

The problem is that they did not have replacement parts -- which is
required
by law -- and they had nothing on hand to confirm or deny my diagnosis of
"bad charger". (I did tell them that it wasn't clear whether the charger,
the phone, or both, were at fault.) And if I'd bought a new phone, they
couldn't transfer the data on the old phone.



No, your problem is you do not know how to interact with people effectively.

You storm in, having "diagnosed" the problem already, but the people you are
trying to convince know you are wrong and clueless.
You then demand a replacement part, which they don't have, and are quite
sure you do not need, because they know far more about this problem than you
do.

I suspect you then belittle them with your apparent and incorrect "superior
knowledge", at which point they pretty much say (internally) "f**k you
as****e, come back when you have learnt to be a bit more civil, I'm not
helping you now, even though I can".


Your loss, I'm afraid.


Gareth.




















ALL THEY COULD OFFER was "Throw it away and buy a new one. We don't give a
damn about your having to trash a working phone, or that you'll lose
everything on the phone, and have to re-enter it by hand."

Dig?



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Gareth Magennis wrote:
No, your problem is you do not know how to interact with people
effectively.

You storm in, having "diagnosed" the problem already, but the people you
are trying to convince know you are wrong and clueless.
You then demand a replacement part, which they don't have, and are quite
sure you do not need, because they know far more about this problem than
you do.

I suspect you then belittle them with your apparent and incorrect
"superior knowledge", at which point they pretty much say (internally)
"f**k you as****e, come back when you have learnt to be a bit more
civil, I'm not helping you now, even though I can".

Your loss, I'm afraid.

Gareth.


It seems to me that you are the one who doesn't know how to interact with
other people effectively. Your attitude is totally unjustified, and you're
just being deliberately rude and antagonistic.

You clearly have nothing further to add, so.....


Martin


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No, your problem is you do not know how to interact with people
effectively.

You storm in, having "diagnosed" the problem already, but the people
you are trying to convince know you are wrong and clueless.
You then demand a replacement part, which they don't have, and are
quite sure you do not need, because they know far more about this
problem than you do.


I suspect you then belittle them with your apparent and incorrect

"superior
knowledge", at which point they pretty much say (internally) "f**k you
as****e, come back when you have learnt to be a bit more civil, I'm not
helping you now, even though I can".


Your loss, I'm afraid.


You weren't there. You don't know. You are arguing for the sake of arguing.

The next time you are treated as I was, by people who have no desire to
assist you, but to sell you something, I expect an apology from you.



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PS: I had an odd problem with my HP 4530s notebook. When I called over the
weekend for help, I was treated courteously by someone who listened to what
I had to say, and told me that other people had had the same problem. So
don't tell me I don't know how to treat people.

When I have a problem, I expect the people assisting me to pretty much bend
over backwards. I do not expect lame excuses, and if I get them, I tell the
people how I feel.


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On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 10:41:38 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

The following might be of interest. More likely it will provoke a "Duh. I
knew that." response.


I know everything.

A fair number of phones use an 18 pin connector:
http://pinouts.ru/pin_CellularPhones-A-N.shtml.

As a side biz, I resell used cell phones. The most common problem
with the big wide 18 pin connector is pocket lint, dirt, and general
crud in the telephone end of the connector. The telephone end has
gold wire contacts, which are easily buried under the crud. A blast
of air, and a stiff acid brush with some alcohol or 409 cleaner is
usually sufficient. The charger end also gets dirty, but since it's
less likely to be carried in the pocket or used to stir crud, it tends
to remain cleaner than the phone. Same fix as the phone. Use an acid
brush and some cleaner.

There is also the problem of the contact wires getting bent out of
line. These wires are held loosely in place by a plastic frame. The
problem is that walls of the frame are rather flimsy and can be
trashed by inserting the connector backwards, stepping on the charger
connector, or trying to fix the connector with a blunt instrument.
Once the wires are bent, it is rather difficult to return them to
their original position.

You can usually tell if it's clean enough with a big magnifying glass,
microscope, or USB closeup camera.

The moral of this? I guess it's that because the bottle's label reads
"contact cleaner", doesn't mean it really cleans contacts.


Rub and scrape please. Your clothes don't wash themselves by simple
immersion. I would not expect connectors to clean themselves by
simply applying some magic cleaner. You need to rub, scrape, and
agitate the cleaner over the connector. Your clothes also don't stay
clean if you forget to rinse afterwards. Try to blow out as much
cleaner as possible, and then add more to rinse out what's left. Most
cleaners just soften the goo, which must then be removed.

On the other foot, any phone that uses an 18 pin connect has to be at
least 10 years old. I can see why the Sprint people didn't want to
deal with it. The average lifetime of a cell phone is about 18 months
(30 months for a smartphone). You might want to consider an upgrade.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
#
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
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On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:37:36 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
put finger to keyboard and composed:

As a side biz, I resell used cell phones.


....

On the other foot, any phone that uses an 18 pin connect has to be at
least 10 years old. I can see why the Sprint people didn't want to
deal with it. The average lifetime of a cell phone is about 18 months
(30 months for a smartphone). You might want to consider an upgrade.


Some might see an inconsistency here. ;-)

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
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On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 10:41:38 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I decided to give the plug a proper cleaning with DeOxit.


I use Philips 390CCS contact cleaner. It fixes most of these kinds of
problems.

Otherwise, if the contacts are large enough and flat enough, I use a
cotton bud and Brasso metal polish.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.


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"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 10:41:38 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:


The following might be of interest. More likely it will provoke a "Duh. I
knew that." response.


I know everything.


A fair number of phones use an 18 pin connector:
http://pinouts.ru/pin_CellularPhones-A-N.shtml.


As a side biz, I resell used cell phones. The most common problem
with the big wide 18 pin connector is pocket lint, dirt, and general
crud in the telephone end of the connector. The telephone end has
gold wire contacts, which are easily buried under the crud. A blast
of air, and a stiff acid brush with some alcohol or 409 cleaner is
usually sufficient. The charger end also gets dirty, but since it's
less likely to be carried in the pocket or used to stir crud, it tends
to remain cleaner than the phone. Same fix as the phone. Use
an acid brush and some cleaner.


In my case, the opposite is true. The charger plug got shmutzik, the
connector remained clean.


There is also the problem of the contact wires getting bent out of
line. These wires are held loosely in place by a plastic frame. The
problem is that walls of the frame are rather flimsy and can be
trashed by inserting the connector backwards, stepping on the
charger connector, or trying to fix the connector with a blunt
instrument. Once the wires are bent, it is rather difficult to return
them to their original position.


You can usually tell if it's clean enough with a big magnifying glass,
microscope, or USB closeup camera.


That wasn't what I was talking about, but I appreciate your filling in the
details. Good to know


The moral of this? I guess it's that because the bottle's label reads
"contact cleaner", doesn't mean it really cleans contacts.


Rub and scrape please. Your clothes don't wash themselves by simple
immersion. I would not expect connectors to clean themselves by
simply applying some magic cleaner. You need to rub, scrape, and
agitate the cleaner over the connector. Your clothes also don't stay
clean if you forget to rinse afterwards. Try to blow out as much
cleaner as possible, and then add more to rinse out what's left.
Most cleaners just soften the goo, which must then be removed.


DeOxit comes pretty close to being a "magic" cleaner. It does most of the
work.


On the other foot, any phone that uses an 18 pin connect has to be
at least 10 years old. I can see why the Sprint people didn't want to
deal with it. The average lifetime of a cell phone is about 18 months
(30 months for a smartphone). You might want to consider an upgrade.


Well, this phone is slightly less than six years old. Sprint (or Samsung) is
legally obliged to deal with it. I have no desire for an upgrade.

My Palm T3 PDA was purchased at Christmas, 2003. Except for a new battery
(replaced in January, 2012), it's working perfectly. Why should I get a new
one (or a smartphone) if this one meets my needs?

Part of the issue is that huge pile of electronic trash generated when
products become "obsolete" so soon after their introduction.


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On 4/11/2012 1:41 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
The following might be of interest. More likely it will provoke a "Duh. I
knew that." response.

Since last July, I've had occasional problems with my cell phone's charger.
The plug sometimes refused to make stable contact. The other day it got so
bad I couldn't charge the phone.

I stopped by the nearest Sprint office, and was given the runaround by two
smiling b****es. They had no replacement chargers, nor could they order one.



smiling b****es?

Nope, don't get that one.............my crossword dictionary didn't help
either. bullies? baldies? blondes? not going to get mad at smiling
blondes eh?
JC
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On Apr 11, 5:08*pm, Archon wrote:
On 4/11/2012 1:41 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

The following might be of interest. More likely it will provoke a "Duh. I
knew that." response.


Since last July, I've had occasional problems with my cell phone's charger.
The plug sometimes refused to make stable contact. The other day it got so
bad I couldn't charge the phone.


I stopped by the nearest Sprint office, and was given the runaround by two
smiling b****es. They had no replacement chargers, nor could they order one.


smiling b****es?

Nope, don't get that one.............my crossword dictionary didn't help
either. bullies? baldies? blondes? not going to get mad at smiling
blondes eh?
JC


biddies, or perhaps budgies in a variation of a Monty Python sketch.
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"spamtrap1888" wrote in message
...
On Apr 11, 5:08 pm, Archon wrote:
On 4/11/2012 1:41 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:


smiling b****es?
Nope, don't get that one.............my crossword dictionary didn't help
either. bullies? baldies? blondes? not going to get mad at smiling
blondes eh?


Biddies, or perhaps budgies in a variation of a Monty Python sketch.


A budgie (budgerigar) is a kind of parrot. (Americans call them parakeets.)
They might as well have been dead parrots for all the help they provided.


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Franc Zabkar wrote:

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 10:41:38 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I decided to give the plug a proper cleaning with DeOxit.


I use Philips 390CCS contact cleaner. It fixes most of these kinds of
problems.

Otherwise, if the contacts are large enough and flat enough, I use a
cotton bud and Brasso metal polish.



I used to see drum type TV tuners that had been cleaned with Brasso.
They were nice shiny brass, after the silver plating was removed by the
Brasso. They worked great for about two weeks. Then they had to buy a
new tuner.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.


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Archon wrote:

smiling b****es?

Nope, don't get that one.............my crossword dictionary didn't help
either. bullies? baldies? blondes? not going to get mad at smiling
blondes eh?



Think of a female dog, in heat.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.
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I used to see drum type TV tuners that had been cleaned with Brasso.
They were nice shiny brass, after the silver plating was removed by the
Brasso. They worked great for about two weeks. Then they had to buy a
new tuner.


Reminds me of travelling "dentists" applying acid to people's teeth to
whiten them. Not long after, the teeth rotted away.


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On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:12:55 +1000, Franc Zabkar
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:37:36 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
put finger to keyboard and composed:

As a side biz, I resell used cell phones.


...

On the other foot, any phone that uses an 18 pin connect has to be at
least 10 years old. I can see why the Sprint people didn't want to
deal with it. The average lifetime of a cell phone is about 18 months
(30 months for a smartphone). You might want to consider an upgrade.


Some might see an inconsistency here. ;-)
- Franc Zabkar


Where? I don't see anything wrong. If you're wondering about the 18
month lifetime for commodity cell phones, please consider that it's an
average. Some people keep their phones literally forever. I know one
techy type that just loves his Qualcomm QCP-6035 phone because it uses
Palm OS. On the other foot, I have a few regular customers, that
regularly buy replacement phones from me (usually the same model).
Mostly, they loose the phone, but quite often sit on them while open,
break connectors, or possibly use it for a soup spoon. Smartphones
are more expense, and tend to be treated slightly better.

If you have a problem with me refurbishing old phones, while Sprint
refuses to do so, it might be because the typical cell phone outlet
has minimal technical talent and can't fix anything without sending
out to a 3rd part. They do that with warranty issues. The customer
gets a refurbished phone, in trade for their "defective" phone.
However, that applies only to fairly recent model phones, not to older
phones.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 16:23:26 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

In my case, the opposite is true. The charger plug got shmutzik, the
connector remained clean.


Very unusual. On the 18 pin connectors, I see mostly dirt in the
phone connector and breakage in the charger connector.

That wasn't what I was talking about, but I appreciate your filling in the
details. Good to know


Note that all that applies to the older 18 pin connectors and similar
mutations. The industry has gone to the micro-USB-B connector as the
standard power supply connector. Unfortunately, the receptacle end in
the phone is usually quite flimsy and easily broken. In addition, the
connector on the end of the charger end is easily contaminated with
dirt, but lacks any easy way to clean out the dirt. Immersion in some
insolvent often helps, but not always. With the new, standardized,
and allegedly improved micro-USB-B connector, I now see more
intermittents and "cannot charge" problems than with the older
connectors. The previous mini-USB-B connector was somewhat better.

DeOxit comes pretty close to being a "magic" cleaner. It does most of the
work.


There seem to be various mutations of DeOxit and Cramolin floating
around. The one that worries me is the original, which contains oleic
acid. That's great for removing oxides and corrosion, but not so good
as it's mildly corrosive to copper. I use it on exposed contacts, but
not inside cavities, where it can't be washed out.

Well, this phone is slightly less than six years old. Sprint (or Samsung) is
legally obliged to deal with it. I have no desire for an upgrade.


Memory fault. I as somewhat off on the age.

My Palm T3 PDA was purchased at Christmas, 2003. Except for a new battery
(replaced in January, 2012), it's working perfectly. Why should I get a new
one (or a smartphone) if this one meets my needs?


No reason as long as it's working. However, if it fails for some
reason, you might balance the cost or repair or replacement with
another used antique, against the purchase of a new PDA/Smartphone
with more features. Incidentally, I think I have a T3 in my pile
somewhere.

Part of the issue is that huge pile of electronic trash generated when
products become "obsolete" so soon after their introduction.


Yep. That's why I fix them and resell them. I'm not getting rich on
this, but I like doing it. Oh, if you're curious, it's now:
computah, network, appliance, cell phone, sewing machine, power tool,
TV, and 2-way radio repair. Indecision is the key to flexibility, or
was that the other way around?


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Immersion in some insolvent often helps...

So I shove the phone down the throat of a bankrupt person?




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On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 14:11:32 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

Immersion in some insolvent often helps...


So I shove the phone down the throat of a bankrupt person?


Oops. I just hate it when I have to double check my spelling chequer.

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# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
#
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Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Mostly, they loose the phone,



How loose? ;-)


--
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On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 10:56:42 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I used to see drum type TV tuners that had been cleaned with Brasso.
They were nice shiny brass, after the silver plating was removed by the
Brasso. They worked great for about two weeks. Then they had to buy a
new tuner.


Thanks for that.

I just checked the instructions on my Brasso can.

All it states is that it is "for polishing Brass, Copper, Steel, etc".

I also have a can of silver polish whose instructions warn that it
should not be used on silver or gold plated items.

- Franc Zabkar
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On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:11:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
put finger to keyboard and composed:

If you have a problem with me refurbishing old phones ...


Not at all. In fact I think it's admirable.

In fact I'm typing this on a 14-year-old Win98SE box. :-)

- Franc Zabkar
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Franc Zabkar wrote:

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 10:56:42 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I used to see drum type TV tuners that had been cleaned with Brasso.
They were nice shiny brass, after the silver plating was removed by the
Brasso. They worked great for about two weeks. Then they had to buy a
new tuner.


Thanks for that.

I just checked the instructions on my Brasso can.

All it states is that it is "for polishing Brass, Copper, Steel, etc".

I also have a can of silver polish whose instructions warn that it
should not be used on silver or gold plated items.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.



You can reduce the silver sulphide back to silver metal using a bit of
aluminum foil and some sodium carbonate solution. Works great on badly
tarnished silverware, and doesn't leave big copper splodges the way
polish does. (Polish contains abrasive.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net


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On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:26:12 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:



"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
It may also suggest that cleaning the plug also indirectly cleaned the
jack, which was the culprit all along.
Which may have been what the "smiling b****es" were trying to tell you,
but you wouldn't listen.


I'm supposed to pay attention to people who are trained /not/ to help the
customer? All /they/ told me was "We can't help you -- unless you want to
throw away this phone and buy a new one." I'm supposed to respect that?

Don't blame the victim.

I was fully aware /before/ I went in that the problem could have been with
the charger, the jack, or both. They were unable to provide a substitute
charger, which would have clarified where the problem lay. Whose fault was
that?





But you might have paid attention to the fact that they know the product,
and quite probably know more about the problem than you do.
This is probably not the first time they have experienced this.

I kind of suspect you went in there with an attitude they did not
appreciate, suggesting you know more about this fault than they do, hence
them giving you "the runaround".


Can't say I blame them, if that is indeed the case.

I suspect that you give the phone store salesbots way too much credit. I
have dealt with such several times, and anything faintly resembling some
sort of technical competence beyond showing how to use all the fancy smart
phone features is seriously frowned upon my management (it doesn't sell
phones). Think about the structure of the "market".


Gareth.

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On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 22:30:50 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:



"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
But you might have paid attention to the fact that they know the product,
and quite probably know more about the problem than you do.
This is probably not the first time they have experienced this.


These people /know nothing/.

How many years of experience does it take to know that /any/ jack/plug
interface is subject to wear, tear, and breakdown? You have to study
advanced engineering at MIT to learn that, don't you?

The problem is that they did not have replacement parts -- which is
required
by law -- and they had nothing on hand to confirm or deny my diagnosis of
"bad charger". (I did tell them that it wasn't clear whether the charger,
the phone, or both, were at fault.) And if I'd bought a new phone, they
couldn't transfer the data on the old phone.



No, your problem is you do not know how to interact with people effectively.

You storm in, having "diagnosed" the problem already, but the people you are
trying to convince know you are wrong and clueless.
You then demand a replacement part, which they don't have, and are quite
sure you do not need, because they know far more about this problem than you
do.

I suspect you then belittle them with your apparent and incorrect "superior
knowledge", at which point they pretty much say (internally) "f**k you
as****e, come back when you have learnt to be a bit more civil, I'm not
helping you now, even though I can".


Your loss, I'm afraid.


Gareth.

The store personnel were actively driving away a network customer. Do you
really think management would continuously tolerate such mulish behavior
in salesbots?


ALL THEY COULD OFFER was "Throw it away and buy a new one. We don't give a
damn about your having to trash a working phone, or that you'll lose
everything on the phone, and have to re-enter it by hand."

Dig?

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On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:31:47 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

PS: I had an odd problem with my HP 4530s notebook. When I called over the
weekend for help, I was treated courteously by someone who listened to what
I had to say, and told me that other people had had the same problem. So
don't tell me I don't know how to treat people.

When I have a problem, I expect the people assisting me to pretty much bend
over backwards. I do not expect lame excuses, and if I get them, I tell the
people how I feel.

Expecting them to bend over backwards is a 1950s and earlier approach. Nor
do i tolerate lame excuses. I do require civility and appropriate
responses as limited by the employer (who often has a specific interest in
non-servicability of the [already obsolete when you bought it] product).

?-)
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On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 21:24:17 -0400, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

Franc Zabkar wrote:

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 10:56:42 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I used to see drum type TV tuners that had been cleaned with Brasso.
They were nice shiny brass, after the silver plating was removed by the
Brasso. They worked great for about two weeks. Then they had to buy a
new tuner.


Thanks for that.

I just checked the instructions on my Brasso can.

All it states is that it is "for polishing Brass, Copper, Steel, etc".

I also have a can of silver polish whose instructions warn that it
should not be used on silver or gold plated items.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.



You can reduce the silver sulphide back to silver metal using a bit of
aluminum foil and some sodium carbonate solution. Works great on badly
tarnished silverware, and doesn't leave big copper splodges the way
polish does. (Polish contains abrasive.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


I'll remember that one.

?-)
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You can reduce the silver sulphide back to silver metal using
a bit of aluminum foil and some sodium carbonate solution.
Works great on badly tarnished silverware, and doesn't leave
big copper splodges the way polish does. (Polish contains abrasive.)


I'll remember that one.
?-)


The poster is correct. I have a kit with a large aluminum plate. You put it
and the silverware in a hot washing soda solution, and the tarnish goes
away.




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"klem kedidelhopper" wrote in message
...

You've been around long enough to know how this game is
played, (throw it out and buy a new one). So were you really
that surprised at the outcome of your visit?


Yes, I was. I expected Sprint to at least have a spare charger to check the
unit. I was also extremely displeased that Sprint couldn't be bothered to
hold onto the interface adapter needed to download the contents of my phone.
That's outrageous when they're trying to get you to buy a new one.

Personally I wouldn't have even bothered making the trip.


I combined it with another trip. I rarely go out for just one thing. I've
combined as many as seven or eight trips into one.


I don't know what kind of attitude if any you may have displayed
during the visit because I wasn't there, but in any case I do believe
that the guy in the earlier posting gave you a bad rap as he wasn't
there either.


I started courteously, then became "emphatic". I'm 65, and have reached the
point where I say (when appropriate) "I don't care what your company likes
or wants. All I care about is what I want." Businesses are not people, and
are not deserving of respect, per se. I suspect companies often hire very
courteous and "sweet" people to wait on customers, on the assumption that
most customers won't get angry with them. Well, I ain't "most customers".


I can tell you that I've experienced similar situations and I would
have been upset, as I'm sure you were. You sound very principled...


No, I'm cranky and demanding. I expect companies to value every customer's
business, and to make every /reasonable/ effort to make the customer happy.
The business exists to please the customers -- not just the stockholders.
(It used to be true -- and might still be -- that Costco stock doesn't have
the "high" value it should, because the company is perceived as being
more-interested in customer satisfaction than simply making money.)

...and very much like my brother who lives in a suburb of New York City.
He walks into a store and just expects people to treat him with courtesy
and respect his feelings. Sadly, more often than not he goes home
disappointed. I've tried to tell him that he's much too sensitive but he
keeps expecting everyone to appreciate how he feels. It's wonderful to
have an idyllic take on life. Just don't expect too much because the sad
reality is that plain and simple, some people just suck.


It's not the people so much as it is the company. The head office sets the
policy.


I should report my recent outstanding experience with Hewlett-Packard. After
successfully setting up a local network with my ProBook 4530s, the computer
suddenly stopped connecting. Running ipconfig revealed that all the 802
hardware was disconnected.

When I called HP's 24/7 service line, I was connected with someone in India
who, much to my surprise, proceeded to treat me courteously and
intelligently (for which he received effusive thanks). Even more to my
surprise, he admitted that HP was aware of this problem (!!!), and it might
hardware failure.

After some unsuccessful troubleshooting, he suggested I return the unit. HP
sent me a shipping box via FedEx, and I returned the computer yesterday via
FedEX Overnight, all at no cost to me. In other words, I received "full"
warranty service, even though HP specified only a limited warranty (IIRC).
(The FTC defines a full warranty as not costing the purchaser anything.)

This is the kind of service I expect from HP. I hope HP fixes the computer
properly, because it's one hell of a notebook at a giveaway price.


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On Apr 19, 1:22*pm, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
"klem kedidelhopper" wrote in message

...

You've been around long enough to know how this game is
played, (throw it out and buy a new one). So were you really
that surprised at the outcome of your visit?


Yes, I was. I expected Sprint to at least have a spare charger to check the
unit. I was also extremely displeased that Sprint couldn't be bothered to
hold onto the interface adapter needed to download the contents of my phone.
That's outrageous when they're trying to get you to buy a new one.

Personally I wouldn't have even bothered making the trip.


I combined it with another trip. I rarely go out for just one thing. I've
combined as many as seven or eight trips into one.

I don't know what kind of attitude if any you may have displayed
during the visit because I wasn't there, but in any case I do believe
that the guy in the earlier posting gave you a bad rap as he wasn't
there either.


I started courteously, then became "emphatic". I'm 65, and have reached the
point where I say (when appropriate) "I don't care what your company likes
or wants. All I care about is what I want." Businesses are not people, and
are not deserving of respect, per se. I suspect companies often hire very
courteous and "sweet" people to wait on customers, on the assumption that
most customers won't get angry with them. Well, I ain't "most customers".

I can tell you that I've experienced similar situations and I would
have been upset, as I'm sure you were. You sound very principled...


No, I'm cranky and demanding. I expect companies to value every customer's
business, and to make every /reasonable/ effort to make the customer happy.
The business exists to please the customers -- not just the stockholders.
(It used to be true -- and might still be -- that Costco stock doesn't have
the "high" value it should, because the company is perceived as being
more-interested in customer satisfaction than simply making money.)

...and very much like my brother who lives in a suburb of New York City..
He walks into a store and just expects people to treat him with courtesy
and respect his feelings. Sadly, more often than not he goes home
disappointed. I've tried to tell him that he's much too sensitive but he
keeps expecting everyone to appreciate how he feels. It's wonderful to
have an idyllic take on life. Just don't expect too much because the sad
reality is that plain and simple, some people just suck.


It's not the people so much as it is the company. The head office sets the
policy.

I should report my recent outstanding experience with Hewlett-Packard. After
successfully setting up a local network with my ProBook 4530s, the computer
suddenly stopped connecting. Running ipconfig revealed that all the 802
hardware was disconnected.

When I called HP's 24/7 service line, I was connected with someone in India
who, much to my surprise, proceeded to treat me courteously and
intelligently (for which he received effusive thanks). Even more to my
surprise, he admitted that HP was aware of this problem (!!!), and it might
hardware failure.

After some unsuccessful troubleshooting, he suggested I return the unit. HP
sent me a shipping box via FedEx, and I returned the computer yesterday via
"Customer Service" FedEX Overnight, all at no cost to me. In other words, I received "full"
warranty service, even though HP specified only a limited warranty (IIRC)..
(The FTC defines a full warranty as not costing the purchaser anything.)

This is the kind of service I expect from HP. I hope HP fixes the computer
properly, because it's one hell of a notebook at a giveaway price.


I actually had a service manager at a local large auto parts and
service store which is part of a chain here in the Northeast tell me
that he didn't care about one customer's satisfaction, (mine). He had
lots of customers, and didn't need any more. I was so ****ed off I
wrote a letter to the president of the company. I was reimbursed for a
79.00 wheel alignment I had to have done elsewhere, I received a
100.00 gift certificate in the mail, and the asshole was fired as
well. Sadly, these days for the most part "customer service" is merely
two words, one that follows the other. And both have been circling the
drain for some time now. But you can always write a letter.
Lenny
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I actually had a service manager at a local large auto parts and
service store which is part of a chain here in the Northeast tell me
that he didn't care about one customer's satisfaction, (mine). He had
lots of customers, and didn't need any more. I was so ****ed off I
wrote a letter to the president of the company. I was reimbursed for a
79.00 wheel alignment I had to have done elsewhere, I received a
100.00 gift certificate in the mail, and the asshole was fired as
well. Sadly, these days for the most part "customer service" is merely
two words, one that follows the other. And both have been circling the
drain for some time now. But you can always write a letter.
Lenny

I intend to call Sprint, eventually.

By the way, the HP 4530s came back at 11:30 this morning, less than two days
after I'd shipped it, with a note saying the radio was defective and had
been replaced. (I'm not sure it was defective.) Anyhow, it was in the same
condition I shipped it, and another hour on the phone with a courteous,
intelligent (that's not sarcasm) HP guy did not resolve the problem. I'm now
resetting the routing to factory settings, and reinstalling the system, to
see what happens.


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On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 13:22:28 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

I intend to call Sprint, eventually.


You might want to call Sprint fairly quickly:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/19/technology/sprint-tax-fraud-lawsuit/

--
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# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
#
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
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