Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters.

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Arch
 
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Default Musing about our importance

There is a current thread unravelling on this ng about plagiarism. IMO,
it is pertinent, timely and thought provoking; the type of thread that
makes rcw endure repetitious banality, spam, trolls, fools and the mean
of spirit. There is some good stuff for woodturners there.

There was a time when woodturners were few and far between. Membership
in guild-like organizations with rules of behaviour and a stamp of
quality similar to the good housekeeping or underwriter's "seal of
approval" might have protected turners and buyers alike then. Not now.
Turners and consumers are too diverse and widespread and the craft is
too easily taken up for ethics, or quality to be regulated or even
desired by the majority.

OTOH, we are and will remain minnows in a big pond. You think otherwise?
Ask at the next club meeting about rcw or any other forum and see the
blank stares. Ask at a museum or art show about AAW or GMC and see what
you get. Most all public places and upscale homes are devoid of our art
and our treen isn't used in their kitchens. You think our leading lights
are household names? Ask around. It's ... who?

Is there a point to my musing? Not really.
Although it's fine to cuss and discuss our pleasures and problems among
ourselves, there is a life outside. In the greater arena, I suspect
that, though important to us, claims of originality, legal protections
and ethical behaviours don't count for much. Patent claims and
copyrights, moral or otherwise are mostly hunting licenses in the small
business of woodturning.

So what!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

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Will
 
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Arch:

Importance? Hmmm.

Arch wrote:
There is a current thread unravelling on this ng about plagiarism. IMO,
it is pertinent, timely and thought provoking; the type of thread that
makes rcw endure repetitious banality, spam, trolls, fools and the mean
of spirit. There is some good stuff for woodturners there.


Hopefully woodworkers generally... I would never have thought too much
about this if the issues had not been raised. Now I carefully photograph
everything as I do it and track how I made it and where the ideas come
from. It actually makes things more enjoyable. I made a lot of stuff
previously and now -- gone. Only memories. At least now I have pictures. :-)


There was a time when woodturners were few and far between. Membership
in guild-like organizations with rules of behaviour and a stamp of
quality similar to the good housekeeping or underwriter's "seal of
approval" might have protected turners and buyers alike then. Not now.
Turners and consumers are too diverse and widespread and the craft is
too easily taken up for ethics, or quality to be regulated or even
desired by the majority.


Quite frankly I can do without guilds and pricing regimens. They have
their uses I am sure. Although when buying something it _is_ nice to
know that the craftsman "knew the basics" and that the work will not
fall apart due to ignorance on the part of the craftsman. That is why I
religiously read this forum.

At least I know enough to not make a "pithy" goblet now -- for example.
And all about sandpaper...


OTOH, we are and will remain minnows in a big pond.


or less... making little ripples in the ponds of time and all that. Just
keep the sharks away!

You think otherwise?
Ask at the next club meeting about rcw or any other forum and see the
blank stares. Ask at a museum or art show about AAW or GMC and see what
you get. Most all public places and upscale homes are devoid of our art
and our treen isn't used in their kitchens.


Well I know one of those, and one outta two ain't that bad. Right Arch?

You think our leading lights
are household names? Ask around. It's ... who?


Maybe in a couple of hundred years. The name of the craftsman is on a
lot of displays at the ROM. (I mentioned that display earlier.) Too bad
woodturners have to die to become (even close to) a "household name". :-(


Is there a point to my musing? Not really.


Except to tweak our noses and make us think? LOL

Although it's fine to cuss and discuss our pleasures and problems among
ourselves, there is a life outside.


Like what? Since when did selling a car or performing a surgical
procedure give the same thrill as caressing a finely turned piece of
wood? Get real! LOL!

In the greater arena, I suspect
that, though important to us, claims of originality, legal protections
and ethical behaviours don't count for much. Patent claims and
copyrights, moral or otherwise are mostly hunting licenses in the small
business of woodturning.


Actually theses are more important if you have employees or contractors
turning out work on your behalf. While I never mentioned it before, I
believe that copying and theft of ideas is a greater issue if you are in
business with employees.... And if you don't use employees or
contractors - all I can say is -- Wonderful -- keep it that way if you can!!

And if you do have employees establish the rules BEFORE you hire. If you
have employees discuss this at great length, move slowly and get verbal
agreements before papering any of this stuff. (It is too late now if you
are in that situation, so any agreement is better than nothing...)
Unless you _want_ them to quit. And having said that, you cannot prevent
a person from practicing their trade, so agreements have to be
reasonable. You can't claim "round" -- even though Kirk tried. LOL.
Turns out that the turners a few hundred years before us had discovered
it anyway...


So what!


Tomorrow is Monday and the start of another wonderful week. That's what!

There is a woodworking show at the CNE grounds, and I will be next door
at PDAC (Prospectors and Developers Convention at the Toronto Convention
Centre) - hopefully selling another gold mine or laying the seeds for
the years to come. Maybe I will get some time to do something useful --
maybe I can go to the wood show. That's good enough for me. :-)

There Arch -- more to think about. Does your head hurt yet? No? It
should! :-)




Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings


--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
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Bjarte Runderheim
 
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"Arch" skrev i melding
...
There is a current thread unravelling on this ng about plagiarism. IMO,
it is pertinent, timely and thought provoking; the type of thread that
makes rcw endure repetitious banality, spam, trolls, fools and the mean
of spirit. There is some good stuff for woodturners there.



Plagiarism is a nasty word, only fit for lawyers and commercial artists.

("commercial" - "artist" - something is not quite harmonious in the
nearness of those two words - - - am I thinking of designers, not artists?)

All great artists have been copied, and will be copied, and it should be so.

The problems only arise in two cases, in IMO, and that is when you
copy from others once and say you had the idea yourself, which you may have
had; and then when you copy from others and commercialize the product
in your own name.

In both cases, as far as woodturning is concerned, it would be silly
and counterproductive for the original artist or designer to make a fuss.

Who can seriously say about a bowl: "Mine is the very first and original
bowl".
"Noone ever made something like this before, and I want all legal rights for
myself".

Anyone trying this must really be in need of a new hobby.
(Or - should maybe set up shop as a lawyer?)

Bjarte






There was a time when woodturners were few and far between. Membership
in guild-like organizations with rules of behaviour and a stamp of
quality similar to the good housekeeping or underwriter's "seal of
approval" might have protected turners and buyers alike then. Not now.
Turners and consumers are too diverse and widespread and the craft is
too easily taken up for ethics, or quality to be regulated or even
desired by the majority.

OTOH, we are and will remain minnows in a big pond. You think otherwise?
Ask at the next club meeting about rcw or any other forum and see the
blank stares. Ask at a museum or art show about AAW or GMC and see what
you get. Most all public places and upscale homes are devoid of our art
and our treen isn't used in their kitchens. You think our leading lights
are household names? Ask around. It's ... who?

Is there a point to my musing? Not really.
Although it's fine to cuss and discuss our pleasures and problems among
ourselves, there is a life outside. In the greater arena, I suspect
that, though important to us, claims of originality, legal protections
and ethical behaviours don't count for much. Patent claims and
copyrights, moral or otherwise are mostly hunting licenses in the small
business of woodturning.

So what!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings



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Harry B. Pye
 
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Who can seriously say about a bowl: "Mine is the very first and original
bowl". "No one ever made something like this before, and I want all
legal rights for myself".


I cannot agree with this statement. Andi Wolfe turns and decorates beautiful
bowls. The general form of the bowl is not unique, but the finished product
is instantly recognizable as hers. She carves and colors leaves and vines on
both the inside and outside of her bowls. To the best of my knowledge she is
the first with this theme and deserves the recognition for developing it.
I'm sure the same can be said of a number of turners and their designs.


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Lobby Dosser
 
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"Harry B. Pye" wrote:

Who can seriously say about a bowl: "Mine is the very first and
original bowl". "No one ever made something like this before, and I
want all legal rights for myself".


I cannot agree with this statement. Andi Wolfe turns and decorates
beautiful bowls. The general form of the bowl is not unique, but the
finished product is instantly recognizable as hers. She carves and
colors leaves and vines on both the inside and outside of her bowls.
To the best of my knowledge she is the first with this theme and
deserves the recognition for developing it. I'm sure the same can be
said of a number of turners and their designs.


And most, if not all, of them have previously appeared in pottery and
glass.







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Ray Sandusky
 
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Arch

You are so right - we are plankton in the world of art - maybe even amoebas!
And we are not respected at all!

I get Architectural Digest - just to look at what people are putting on
their shelves and on their kitchen counters as decorative art. I can tell
you that it is a difficult task to find a turning in any issue! If you do
find one, it is obviously a mass produced hunk of non-descript wood that has
no character and no evidence that a man's hand touched it in the making
process!

Also, these art and architectural types put so much emphasis on ceramics and
stoneware and glass - it makes me want to spit! I can see glass having a
place of esteem as it is a difficult thing to work. But pottery - I am
sorry - even if the potter tries to make the piece interesting with their
glazes and other features, they still have a long way to go! Plus the
pieces are heavy, clunky looking and scratch or mar the surface of their
shelves and tables!

And the kitchenware - they have these big honkin ceramic bowls that look
like they weigh 10 pounds! To match the scale of some of the modern kitchens
the bowls have to be large! So why do they not have a beautiful wooden
salad bowl - probably because they can only find the glued-up junk that
Williams Sonoma or Pottery Barn had made from scraps of trash wood in
southeast Asia - that's why!

I think we should be held to a higher level of prominence than potters -
heck their large stuff sells for $55 a piece! If I sold something for $55
it would probably be a nut bowl or ornament (otherwise, my wife would be
very mad at me for wasting my time!). Plus, you can go to Wal-Mart and buy
any old bowl and it will be just as good as any run of the mill potter's
work. Try finding a wooden salad bowl that was cut from a single piece of
wood at Wal-Mart or Target or any other retail store. Very difficult
indeed.

It would be nice to be able to make 100 pieces a year and sell them all for
$1000, or 50 pieces and sell them for $2000 - but I am sure that even the
luminaries in our field have trouble doing that! It would be even nicer to
see us get the respect of the broad base art and architecture community for
the skill we exhibit and for the obviously beautiful work that we do!

I could rant all day on this topic! Thanks Arch!

Ray Sandusky
Brentwood, TN








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coffeechocofreak
 
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Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Harry B. Pye" wrote:

Who can seriously say about a bowl: "Mine is the very first and
original bowl". "No one ever made something like this before, and

I
want all legal rights for myself".


I cannot agree with this statement. Andi Wolfe turns and decorates
beautiful bowls. The general form of the bowl is not unique, but

the
finished product is instantly recognizable as hers. She carves and
colors leaves and vines on both the inside and outside of her

bowls.
To the best of my knowledge she is the first with this theme and
deserves the recognition for developing it. I'm sure the same can

be
said of a number of turners and their designs.


And most, if not all, of them have previously appeared in pottery and


glass.



Leaf motifs have, indeed, appeared in pottery and glass, but I wonder
if you've seen these particular bowls. They are unique in woodturning
and different from other media.

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