On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:18:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:
I just installed a couple dishwashers, one for us and one for a
friend, and one for a friend, no screen washers,,,,,,,,,

Hi Hallerb,
I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier. I'm so confused with this discussion
as to where to post.

I hope others can keep up as I read *everything* everyone says and try to
answser the questions so I can help myself and others can follow after
we're done so the advice is never wasted.

I took a bunch of pics of the dishwasher today and put them he
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaoh...7603947125744/

(Flicker apparently allows only 3 sets so I have to mix the dishwasher clog
with the tub clog which is, in a way, the same problem as it happened after
the water heater replacement).

I did do research on clogged dishwashers but it's hard to find anything
specific to the GE Nautilus.

This article says "unscrew the water inlet hose" to remove sediment:
http://www.rusticgirls.com/appliance...t-filling.html

This one says "debris" could be caught in the "spray arm":
http://www.mrappliance.com/expert/ma...shwashers.aspx

This one again points to the "filter" and "solonoid":
http://www.home-appliance-kitchen-ai...shwashers.html

This one suggests it might be the "float" that's clogged:
http://www.applianceandair.com/Dishw...er.html#nofill

I think what I'll do later today (I have the grandkids again) is take apart
the inlet line and the solonoid line if I can.

If I see sand in there, I'll know it's the problem!
Any other suggestions?

Donna

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:48:20 GMT, James Sweet wrote:
Hey that looks identical to the one I just yanked out of my place
When you remove the kick plate, you'll find adjustable screw feet
The solenoid valve will be right up front on the left side, mine is blue.

Hi James,

You gave me the courage to tackle this maybe-clogged dishwasher:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaoh...7603947125744/

Here's a pic, taken just now, with the "kick plate" removed:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2279869546/

Are you suggesting I can remove that blue "solonoid" on the left side with
the brass pipe in it and that might be what's probably clogged?

Donna

In article , "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:48:20 GMT, James Sweet wrote:
Hey that looks identical to the one I just yanked out of my place
When you remove the kick plate, you'll find adjustable screw feet
The solenoid valve will be right up front on the left side, mine is blue.

Hi James,

You gave me the courage to tackle this maybe-clogged dishwasher:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaoh...7603947125744/

Here's a pic, taken just now, with the "kick plate" removed:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2279869546/

Are you suggesting I can remove that blue "solonoid" on the left side with
the brass pipe in it and that might be what's probably clogged?

Donna


I might first think about using a good shop vac and start sucking at the feed
from the water heater or main entrance. open all taps, and of course close
main valve. I think the line would have to reseparated at the tank. The
dishwasher fill would have to be activated to open valve.

??

greg

In article , (GregS) wrote:
In article , "Donna Ohl, Grady
Volunteer Coordinator" wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:48:20 GMT, James Sweet wrote:
Hey that looks identical to the one I just yanked out of my place
When you remove the kick plate, you'll find adjustable screw feet
The solenoid valve will be right up front on the left side, mine is blue.

Hi James,

You gave me the courage to tackle this maybe-clogged dishwasher:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaoh...7603947125744/

Here's a pic, taken just now, with the "kick plate" removed:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2279869546/

Are you suggesting I can remove that blue "solonoid" on the left side with
the brass pipe in it and that might be what's probably clogged?

Donna


I might first think about using a good shop vac and start sucking at the feed
from the water heater or main entrance. open all taps, and of course close
main valve. I think the line would have to reseparated at the tank. The
dishwasher fill would have to be activated to open valve.

??

greg

Do one tap at a time, or valve.

greg

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:51:51 GMT, GregS wrote:
I might first think about using a good shop vac and start sucking at the feed
from the water heater or main entrance.

Hi GregS,
Unfortunately, we do not have a "shop vac". My vacuum cleaner isn't likely
to do the job either ...

I will try tonight to remove the inlet water line if I can find where it
goes and to remove the solonoid to see if either have a screen.

If it's not that, then I'll look at the "float" and the "nozzle" wherever
they are, but first I'll try to see if it's the blue solonoid or the hidden
inlet screen if there is any.

Donna

If it's anything like the little filter screens on the hot water and
cold water inlet pipes to clothes washers machines, those little filter
screens should occasionally be cleaned.
cuhulin

On Feb 20, 12:05�pm, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:51:51 GMT, GregS wrote:
I might first think about using a good shop vac and start sucking at the feed
from the water heater or main entrance.

Hi GregS,
Unfortunately, we do not have a "shop vac". My vacuum cleaner isn't likely
to do the job either ...

I will try tonight to remove the inlet water line if I can find where it
goes and to remove the solonoid to see if either have a screen.

If it's not that, then I'll look at the "float" and the "nozzle" wherever
they are, but first I'll try to see if it's the blue solonoid or the hidden
inlet screen if there is any.

Donna

clog can be anywhere and is likely multiple locations.......

good luck and replace you galvanized ASAP the rough interior surface
of galvanized pipe leads to gunk accumulating and breaking lose
causing clogs of all types.

soleanoid valves are easy to replace but expensive

soleanoid valves are easy to replace but expensive


In the unlikely event that it needs it, she can have the solenoid from my
junk dishwasher, I haven't had a chance to haul it to the dump yet. I see
free dishwashers on craigslist all the time, most are made by just a few
different brands and have many parts in common.

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:31:43 -0600, jakdedert wrote:
This could turn into a whole new thread of major f*ckups that we learned
from....

So far, on my side of the story, the water heater, full of tepid water,
fell over, and the drain valve popped off spewing water about. I won't
soon
forget that! The garage still stinks of smelly carpet!

The replacement of the water heater seems to have clogged all the faucets
(easy to clean), showerheads (even easier to clean), tub (still clogged),
and maybe even the dishwasher (work in progress).

I'm not sure *where* the sand came from but it's clearly in all the
faucets
so I guess we kicked it loose somehow in the water heater removal and
replacement process.

Anyway, now it's time to "remove" the dishwasher, if I can.
Does it look like it can be removed from these pictures taken today?

Counter Top:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaoh...7603947125744/

Latch:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaoh...7603947125744/

Bottom Right:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaoh...7603947125744/

Bottom Left:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaoh...7603947125744/

Do you think this dishwasher can be removed without breaking the counter
tile?

Donna

You can only try to get it out but to avoid problems try clearing the hose
first then worry about pulling the dishwasher out from its location. It
always annoyed me when I had to remove them from the benches for servicing
when I did it for a living as kitchen builders seem to always work to very
close fitting making it nearly impossible to remove and that is when it is
all built as a full unit. They never allow for variations including putting
down a new floor or replacing the unit whereas the new unit is usually a
different size, cupboards can easily be built up or facias placed in but
removing tops and cupboards is more difficult and expensive. At least it
looks easier for you as you have a level tile floor which will be easy to
slide it on and not damaged as easily.
Good luck and waiting for the result.
Just.

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote:

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:31:43 -0600, jakdedert wrote:
This could turn into a whole new thread of major f*ckups that we learned
from....

So far, on my side of the story, the water heater, full of tepid water,
fell over, and the drain valve popped off spewing water about. I won't soon
forget that! The garage still stinks of smelly carpet!

The replacement of the water heater seems to have clogged all the faucets
(easy to clean), showerheads (even easier to clean), tub (still clogged),
and maybe even the dishwasher (work in progress).

I'm not sure *where* the sand came from but it's clearly in all the faucets
so I guess we kicked it loose somehow in the water heater removal and
replacement process.

Anyway, now it's time to "remove" the dishwasher, if I can.
Does it look like it can be removed from these pictures taken today?

Counter Top:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaoh...7603947125744/

Latch:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaoh...7603947125744/

Bottom Right:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaoh...7603947125744/

Bottom Left:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaoh...7603947125744/

Do you think this dishwasher can be removed without breaking the counter
tile?

Donna


I always open an outside faucet wide open for about five minutes any
time the water is turned off to blow as much crap out of the lines
before using anything inside the house.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:41:13 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I always open an outside faucet wide open for about five minutes any
time the water is turned off to blow as much crap out of the lines
before using anything inside the house.

Hi Michael,
This is a GREAT idea! (if it works).

What I don't get is WHY there was all that sandy stuff after I replaced my
wagter heater. If anything, there should be LESS sediment in the lines, not
more (way more).

Where did all that sandy sediment that clogged every single faucet in our
tiny house come from?

Is this common that sediment blocks everything in one quick pass after
replacing a water heater?

If so, why did NONE of the tutorials I read mention that simple hint you
just gave us?

Donna

On Feb 21, 2:20�am, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
wrote:
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:41:13 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
� �I always open an outside faucet wide open for about five minutes any
time the water is turned off to blow as much crap out of the lines
before using anything inside the house.

Hi Michael,
This is a GREAT idea! (if it works).

What I don't get is WHY there was all that sandy stuff after I replaced my
wagter heater. If anything, there should be LESS sediment in the lines, not
more (way more).

Where did all that sandy sediment that clogged every single faucet in our
tiny house come from?

Is this common that sediment blocks everything in one quick pass after
replacing a water heater?

If so, why did NONE of the tutorials I read mention that simple hint you
just gave us?

Donna

ahh when you turn off the water, drain the lines, and turn the water
back on. did you note the shuddering the first time you used water?
thats normal but you have galvanized lines full of crud which broke
loose and clogged stuff.

PEX and copper have smooth insides which dont collect crud.

sorry donna you need all your water lines replaced.

incidently water companies have the same trouble, and this is whu they
flush fire hydrants a couple times a year. confirms the hydrant works
and moves along dirt in lines.

thats why flushing sometimes causes brown or cruddy water

On Feb 21, 7:15Â*am, " wrote:
On Feb 21, 2:20�am, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"





wrote:
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:41:13 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
� �I always open an outside faucet wide open for about five minutes any
time the water is turned off to blow as much crap out of the lines
before using anything inside the house.

Hi Michael,
This is a GREAT idea! (if it works).

What I don't get is WHY there was all that sandy stuff after I replaced my
wagter heater. If anything, there should be LESS sediment in the lines, not
more (way more).

Where did all that sandy sediment that clogged every single faucet in our
tiny house come from?

Is this common that sediment blocks everything in one quick pass after
replacing a water heater?

If so, why did NONE of the tutorials I read mention that simple hint you
just gave us?

Donna

ahh when you turn off the water, drain the lines, and turn the water
back on. did you note the shuddering the first time you used water?
thats normal but you have galvanized lines full of crud which broke
loose and clogged stuff.

PEX and copper have smooth insides which dont collect crud.

sorry donna you need all your water lines replaced.

incidently water companies have the same trouble, and this is whu they
flush fire hydrants a couple times a year. confirms the hydrant works
and moves along dirt in lines.

thats why flushing sometimes causes brown or cruddy water- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

with copper of plastic lines its a non issue, and few today have
galvanized.

my neighbor got severly burnt at work after a water outage. when it
was turned back on the hot tea machine sprayed scalding water all over
her hand. she has permanent nerve damage

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:15:10 -0800 (PST), wrote:
thats why flushing sometimes causes brown or cruddy wate

Hi Hallerb,

Ah. Yes. When the water was turned back on, there was a lot of sputtering
and shuddering going on, mostly sputtering. I thought it had to do with the
new burner.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2276890136/

But, this shaking & flushing of the pipes must have shaken loose sandy
grainy "crud" as every galvanized pipe I replaced was almost clogged
completely with what you called "scale".
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273250265/

The water *was* brownish for a long while (you can see that in this photo
even after cleaning out the showerheads, so the crud was *still* coming
through the lines even ten minutes after initially turning the water back
on!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2279233720/

I guess all that brownish was sandy grainy stuff that caught in the filters
of *all* my faucets, showerheads, and dishwashers!

Nobody warned me about that so I'm *adding* it to the how to that I wrote
up!

Hi Hallerb,

Ah. Yes. When the water was turned back on, there was a lot of sputtering
and shuddering going on, mostly sputtering. I thought it had to do with
the
new burner.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2276890136/

But, this shaking & flushing of the pipes must have shaken loose sandy
grainy "crud" as every galvanized pipe I replaced was almost clogged
completely with what you called "scale".
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273250265/

The water *was* brownish for a long while (you can see that in this photo
even after cleaning out the showerheads, so the crud was *still* coming
through the lines even ten minutes after initially turning the water back
on!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2279233720/

I guess all that brownish was sandy grainy stuff that caught in the
filters
of *all* my faucets, showerheads, and dishwashers!

Nobody warned me about that so I'm *adding* it to the how to that I wrote
up!


The sputtering is due to air in the lines, it gets trapped in all sorts of
places and sputters and spurts out when a tap is opened.

I've only ever seen a couple houses that had galvanized pipes, and in one
case they were all being replaced. The sediment problem is something mostly
specific to galvanized, so it's not on the radar for most people.

James Sweet wrote:

snip

I've only ever seen a couple houses that had galvanized pipes, and in one
case they were all being replaced. The sediment problem is something mostly
specific to galvanized, so it's not on the radar for most people.

Huh? Look most anywhere in the 'rust belt' or in areas where the housing
stock is largely greater than 80 years old ;-) Too bad that 'tutorials'
aren't directed at those situations to which they are most needed.

Michael

Huh? Look most anywhere in the 'rust belt' or in areas where the housing
stock is largely greater than 80 years old ;-) Too bad that 'tutorials'
aren't directed at those situations to which they are most needed.



I'm not anywhere near the rust belt.

I know several people with old houses that originally had galvanized, but
they're all copper now.

Awww, come on,,,, buying and installing a new water heater is hardly any
different than buying and and installing any other kind of a home
apppliance.There is nothing to it but to do it.A city permit? Forget it!
cuhulin

" wrote:

with copper of plastic lines its a non issue, and few today have
galvanized.

my neighbor got severly burnt at work after a water outage. when it
was turned back on the hot tea machine sprayed scalding water all over
her hand. she has permanent nerve damage


All my plumbing is PVC, except the well casing. The people I bought
the place from waited till the old well was totally useless, and there
is 1/8" of rust on the walls of the PVC. Every time the system, is
deperssurized, I get VERY rusty water, unless I flush it, as described.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote:

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:41:13 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I always open an outside faucet wide open for about five minutes any
time the water is turned off to blow as much crap out of the lines
before using anything inside the house.

Hi Michael,
This is a GREAT idea! (if it works).

What I don't get is WHY there was all that sandy stuff after I replaced my
wagter heater. If anything, there should be LESS sediment in the lines, not
more (way more).

Where did all that sandy sediment that clogged every single faucet in our
tiny house come from?

Is this common that sediment blocks everything in one quick pass after
replacing a water heater?

If so, why did NONE of the tutorials I read mention that simple hint you
just gave us?


Who knows? They probably overlook it, thinking that everyone already
knows about it. People who are too close ot any subject tend to mitt
important details, because they think everyone knows THAT about the
job. I rewrote a lot of test procedures where I worked, because of the
engineering department doing the same thing. You had to train each tech
on each job, because so much stuff was left out, or just plain wrong.
Eventually, the system was changed to peer review the documents on the
test floor before changes were approved.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On Mon 18 Feb 2008 15:16:55, Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:29:11 -0800 (PST), N8N wrote:
I just replaced the anodes ... on two ancient (80's) water heaters
it turns out that they were both still in good shape

Hi Nate,

That brings up the first (of many) questions that arose when we
replaced our hot water heater (with your help) yesterday ...

1. I agree, while replacing the altruistic anode is a "good thing"
...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2086/...124_f60ec145cf.
jpg?v=0

The problem I found is ...

2. Even Superman couldn't would have a tough time removing mine ...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2033/...52c3b7d618.jpg
?v=0

Given it took a pipe wrench plus a huge cheater bar to remove the
anode with the water heater removed and blocked on the ground ...
and given that any in-place plumbing and vent ducts would have
severely hampered access ... and given that a water heater isn't
rigidly "mounted" ... I wonder ...

Can anyone really expect to remove the anode when it needs
inspection? Why don't they provide TWO HOLES so you can add a
second anode when needed?

Donna
http://www.flickr.com/donnaohl


Hello Donna, you seem to have learnt quite a surprsing amount for
someone who has was a novice just a few weeks ago and who does not
have a background in mechanical engineering.

I'm impressed.

Or i would be impressed if I could believe it but I am afrain I can't
beleieve it.

What did you say was your line of work?

If you have time when you're not posting extended posts to a "quick
and basic" question?

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:54:18 GMT, John wrote:
Hello Donna, you seem to have learnt quite a surprsing amount.

Hello John,
I wonder why intelligence bothers you so very much.

Donna Ohl wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:54:18 GMT, John wrote:
Hello Donna, you seem to have learnt quite a surprsing amount.

Hello John,
I wonder why intelligence bothers you so very much.


Donna, some people would bitch if you hung them with a new rope.


--
aioe.org is home to cowards and terrorists

Add this line to your news proxy nfilter.dat file
* drop Path:*aioe.org!not-for-mail to drop all aioe.org traffic.

http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 04:13:01 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Donna, some people would bitch if you hung them with a new rope.

Thanks for the kind words Michael.
I think it bothers them that anyone could learn as much as I did from you
guys and that we could solve the problem together, even though it took a
while.

Here, for example, is my picture today where I finally got the courage to
take the blue dishwasher solonoid apart and you guys were right! The filter
was completely clogged with sand!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2269/...55ae468a_m.jpg

Without your advice, I would never have been able to know what to take
apart to find the problem!

I hope, by posting the pictures and describing what we've learned together,
that the next person reading this who has a clogged dishwasher after doing
a water heater repair, will know exactly what to do!

Donna