Can I get some quick trusty advice on a dripping gas 40 gallon hot-water
heater?

I noticed my hot-water heater leaking and my husband is out of town.
He says wait until he comes back (1 week) but I am afraid something bad
will happen. He also says maybe we should replace with an instant on
tankless heater but I want to get it done today!

Do you have quick advice on hot-water heaters?

1. If it's leaking cold water from the bottom but still working, is it not
repairable (I assume it's a throwaway item).

2. It's at least as new/old as when I moved into this house around 2000 and
it has an energy efficiency sticker so it's not that old. But, would you
replace it with a bigger (only two people in the small house as the kids
are gone) one or even go tankless?

3. Is it a home repair or, due to gas, is it only by a qualified pro?

4. Do most of you go to Home Depot or the like and just pick one and have
them install it or is there a "better" way?

5. I never did anything preventative but googling talks about a sacrificial
anode and draining; should I have done that (I'm guessing yes).

6. If we go tankless, are there "gotchas" we need to watch out for?

Sorry for so many questions!
But it would be nice to get your off-the-cuff advice again!

Donna

On Feb 10, 9:53*am, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
wrote:
Can I get some quick trusty advice on a dripping gas 40 gallon hot-water
heater?

I noticed my hot-water heater leaking and my husband is out of town.
He says wait until he comes back (1 week) but I am afraid something bad
will happen. He also says maybe we should replace with an instant on
tankless heater but I want to get it done today!

Do you have quick advice on hot-water heaters?

1. If it's leaking cold water from the bottom but still working, is it not
repairable (I assume it's a throwaway item).

2. It's at least as new/old as when I moved into this house around 2000 and
it has an energy efficiency sticker so it's not that old. But, would you
replace it with a bigger (only two people in the small house as the kids
are gone) one or even go tankless?

3. Is it a home repair or, due to gas, is it only by a qualified pro?

4. Do most of you go to Home Depot or the like and just pick one and have
them install it or is there a "better" way?

5. I never did anything preventative but googling talks about a sacrificial
anode and draining; should I have done that (I'm guessing yes).

6. If we go tankless, are there "gotchas" we need to watch out for?

Sorry for so many questions!
But it would be nice to get your off-the-cuff advice again!

Donna

Wait till he gets back

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:32:59 -0800 (PST), N8N wrote:

I wouldn't rush into replacing the water heater; there's real savings
to be had from carefully shopping and selecting one that is a) sized
right for your house and b) as efficient as possible.

I was scared that I had to replace it this instant!
But, I like to think a bit if I have the time to think.

I think I'm giving up on the tankless idea because of what you said.
This is what Consumer Reports has to say about tankless.
I think I'll replace my "40HMEV" with an equivalent one with a tank!

"Tankless water heaters claim to save money by heating water only when you
turn on the faucet. But smaller, cheaper units probably won't produce
enough hot water to serve a typical family. Larger, gas-fired units cost
$1,000 or more and are expensive to install because they often require
larger gas supply lines and special venting."

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:45:37 -0800 (PST), N8N wrote:

Most water heaters have a 6 year warranty; that means that anything
over 10 years or so without regular maintenance is borrowed time.

Hi Nate,
Thanks for the continued advice.
This "warranty" stuff always confused me.
On the one hand, Consumer Reports says never buy the extended warranties
for electronics and the like and on the other hand, for their hot-water
heaters, they say get the ones with the longest warrantee because they
"tend to be insulated better".

Since a warrantee is merely a marketing gimmick, I find the fact that there
is any correlation between warrantee and actual product quality suspicious.

I'm an old(er) woman and I've *never* made good on any warrantee for
anything sizeable ever. I remember muffler warrantees in the 80's where by
the time I needed a new muffler, I didn't even remember where I bought the
last one. Same with automotive batteries and brake pads. Sure, they're
warranted, but, when your tire blows, you need a new tire and you can't
shop around for the store that sold you the warrantee.

Since a warrantee is merely a marketing gimmick, how can there be *any*
correlation between warrantee and actual quality?

Donna

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 13:16:47 -0500, BETA-33 wrote:

To be safer, when you leave the house, you can turn off the main water valve
to the house, or if you know where the cold water feeds into the top of the
hot water heater, you could just turn that valve off.

It is definately not-hot water (i,e., cool) leaking at the bottom of the
tank. I'll snap a photo and show you. The top has the two pipes coming in,
one is cold; the other is hot. It's working.

It is a good idea to shut off the water coming in (that limits my risk to
40 gallons max); but you didn't state whether I should turn off the gas
also.

I suspect that I must - but can you confirm that the gas goes off with the
water inlet getting shut off?

Donna

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in
message
Do you have quick advice on hot-water heaters?

1. If it's leaking cold water from the bottom but still working, is it not
repairable (I assume it's a throwaway item).


Yes, toss it.


2. It's at least as new/old as when I moved into this house around 2000
and
it has an energy efficiency sticker so it's not that old. But, would you
replace it with a bigger (only two people in the small house as the kids
are gone) one or even go tankless?

If it works for you, size is OK. If yo ever runs short, go for bigger. For
gas, is is probably plenty good as it has faster recovery than electric.



3. Is it a home repair or, due to gas, is it only by a qualified pro?

Depends on your skill level. If you have to ask, get a pro.



4. Do most of you go to Home Depot or the like and just pick one and have
them install it or is there a "better" way?

I'd rather use a local plumber, but, some of the big stores do a next day
install.


5. I never did anything preventative but googling talks about a
sacrificial
anode and draining; should I have done that (I'm guessing yes).

I think that is more of an eectric thing than gas.



6. If we go tankless, are there "gotchas" we need to watch out for?

Yes, you need lots of power, venting etc. You may hot have allthe time
needed to plan an install. Many people are also unhappy with them too as
they are not as resposive as they'd like.


Chances of a catastrophic failure are slim, but I'd not wait very long. You
can close the feed valve to the heater and limit any leaks to the 40 gallons
inside of it.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

On Feb 10, 10:53*am, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
wrote:
Can I get some quick trusty advice on a dripping gas 40 gallon hot-water
heater?

I noticed my hot-water heater leaking and my husband is out of town.
He says wait until he comes back (1 week) but I am afraid something bad
will happen. He also says maybe we should replace with an instant on
tankless heater but I want to get it done today!

Do you have quick advice on hot-water heaters?

1. If it's leaking cold water from the bottom but still working, is it not
repairable (I assume it's a throwaway item).

by "bottom" if you mean "bottom of tank" then yes, it needs to be
replaced.


2. It's at least as new/old as when I moved into this house around 2000 and
it has an energy efficiency sticker so it's not that old. But, would you
replace it with a bigger (only two people in the small house as the kids
are gone) one or even go tankless?

Depends on your exact situation. There's resources online to help you
select the proper sized water heater. Do you have any issues with
your old one? (running out of hot water mid-shower, etc.?) If no, it
is probably at least as big as you need. I have no opinion on
tankless, but be aware that you may have to do some gas plumbing to
make it work, as well as your flue for the old WH may now be
undersized. Tankless WH's have a much higher BTU/hr rating than tank
style and therefore use gas at a much higher rate. You have to both
feed and exhaust it properly (kind of like hot-rodding a car.)


3. Is it a home repair or, due to gas, is it only by a qualified pro?


Depends on how handy you are. If you're just replacing a tank style
with another tank style you *may* be able to handle it yourself, but
I'm hesitant to say for sure without knowing your skill set. I'd
probably call a pro to convert to tankless.

4. Do most of you go to Home Depot or the like and just pick one and have
them install it or is there a "better" way?

I would avoid that orange colored circle of Hell like the plague and
call a real plumber.

5. I never did anything preventative but googling talks about a sacrificial
anode and draining; should I have done that (I'm guessing yes).

checking the anode and flushing the tank every hear is never a bad
idea.

6. If we go tankless, are there "gotchas" we need to watch out for?

Sorry for so many questions!
But it would be nice to get your off-the-cuff advice again!

Donna

Shut off the gas to the WH and shut off the water to your house before
you leave to go anywhere. If you don't know how to do all of this, or
relight the pilot (assuming you have one) post back. Does the room in
which the heater is located have a floor drain? Can you tell where
the water is leaking from? (is it coming from the T&P valve pipe? If
so you can fix this yourself without buying a new WH.)

I wouldn't rush into replacing the water heater; there's real savings
to be had from carefully shopping and selecting one that is a) sized
right for your house and b) as efficient as possible. Unfortunately
the typical water heater purchase sounds a lot like yours, so there's
typically some sense of urgency behind it and people don't make the
best decisions.

If it is well and truly failed, and you have to replace it, take a
look at waterheaterrescue.com (I think I got that right) I would
definitely install a ball valve in place of the factory plastic drain
valve on your new heater, and they also offer other helpful advice
there. If you have someone install it you probably won't have the
opportunity to install a curved dip tube as they recommend, but that
is really only important for high sediment areas. You don't need to
buy from WHR (although I did buy new anodes for my heaters from them
as I was unable to find any source locally that sold magnesium anodes)
just to do the ball valve thing; a threaded 3/4" ball valve, a
dielectric nipple, and a 3/4" NPT male to garden hose male adapter is
all you need (and pipe wrenches and dope, of course) pick up a brass
garden hose fitting cap while you're shopping in case someone kicks
the ball valve unintentionally. It is, however, WAY easier to do this
before the water is turned on to your new heater; it's a bit messier
if you have to retrofit an old heater due to a busted drain valve.
(ask me how I know this.)

good luck.

nate

In article , "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote:
Can I get some quick trusty advice on a dripping gas 40 gallon hot-water
heater?

I noticed my hot-water heater leaking and my husband is out of town.
He says wait until he comes back (1 week) but I am afraid something bad
will happen. He also says maybe we should replace with an instant on
tankless heater but I want to get it done today!

First, don't leave it long but spend a few days doing your
homework. Do it today and you'll likely get talked into
something you'll regret.

I prefer a tank to tankless. Get one with really good
insulation and it will be just as energy efficient.

I dislike Home Depot. A good local independent is a
better bet if you can find one with strong recommendations.
Ask your neighbors, co-workers etc. I'd go to Sears
rather then stick a pin in the Yellow Pages.

Check locally for permit issues. Some cities actually
require a permit to replace a water heater (just silly
IMO, but it's the law).



--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Feb 10, 10:53*am, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
wrote:
Can I get some quick trusty advice on a dripping gas 40 gallon hot-water
heater?

I noticed my hot-water heater leaking and my husband is out of town.
He says wait until he comes back (1 week) but I am afraid something bad
will happen. He also says maybe we should replace with an instant on
tankless heater but I want to get it done today!

Do you have quick advice on hot-water heaters?

1. If it's leaking cold water from the bottom but still working, is it not
repairable (I assume it's a throwaway item).

2. It's at least as new/old as when I moved into this house around 2000 and
it has an energy efficiency sticker so it's not that old. But, would you
replace it with a bigger (only two people in the small house as the kids
are gone) one or even go tankless?

Forgot to mention, that is no guarantee that it hasn't outlived its
design life.

Most water heaters have a 6 year warranty; that means that anything
over 10 years or so without regular maintenance is borrowed time. My
water heater was installed circa 1990 or so, judging from the data
sticker on it, and it still has one of those yellow "energyguide"
stickers on it. (yes, I'm still using it, although its T&P valve
failed and stuck slightly open while I was out of town and caused a
horrid mess in my basement. I caught it just as it was starting to
soak the carpet on the other side of the basement...)

I probably should have replaced it by now, but the anode looked OK so
I stuck a new anode, T&P valve, and ball valve drain assembly on it
and kept using it, because I'm a cheap b*****d. I figure if it does
fail I can save all the stuff I've replaced and at least get my
money's worth out of them in the future. The PO's of the house never
did any maintenance on the thing (as evidenced by a drain valve that
failed the first time I tried to flush it, and an anode that required
a 3/4" breaker bar and cheater pipe to bust loose) but it's still
kicking. just goes to show you that there is wide variation in the
life of a WH probably primarily due to local water conditions.

nate

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:32:38 -0500, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Yes, toss it.
I'm on Consumer Reports right now looking up how to buy a new one.

If it works for you, size is OK. If yo ever runs short, go for bigger. For
gas, is is probably plenty good as it has faster recovery than electric.

It's gas and it has always been fine with the water.
We have even fewer people in the house now than ever before.
The FHR (first hour rating) is 65 on the existing (leaking) water heater.
It's 34,000 BTUs.
I can't seem to find the EF (energy efficiency).
I can't make out the brand but on the label, I can see a model "40HMEV"
(whatever that is) that I'm looking up now.
It's barely dripping ... just a puddle on the floor ... so I wonder how
much time I have to research the right thing to do.

I guess I have a day or two?

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:32:59 -0800 (PST), N8N wrote:

by "bottom" if you mean "bottom of tank" then yes, it needs to be
replaced.

I read in Consumer Reports that sometimes the pressure-relief valve leaks
but that is on top and it's dry as a bone. The water is pooling in a slow
drip (I'd guess an ounce an hour or so) somewhere in the back of the bottom
of the unit. There is nothing dripping out the top where the two curly
pipes for the water seem to come in and out.

Depends on your exact situation. There's resources online to help you
select the proper sized water heater. Do you have any issues with
your old one?

The current model "40HMEV" ho****er heater was fine at 40 gallons, FHR of
65, 34,000 BTUs. I can't read the Energy Efficiency (EF) rating because
it's behind the earthquake straps.

Tankless WH's have a much higher BTU/hr rating than tank
tyle and therefore use gas at a much higher rate. You have to both
feed and exhaust it properly (kind of like hot-rodding a car.)

I think that's too complicated for me so I'm giving up quickly on the
tankless. I'll try to find a good price for a good tank installed today. I
see Home Depot is deprecated so I might have to go to Sears. I hope they do
same-day install.

Can I just throw the old one in the trash or does it have recycling toxics?

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:37:04 GMT, Malcolm Hoar wrote:

First, don't leave it long but spend a few days doing your
homework. Do it today and you'll likely get talked into
something you'll regret.

This is what I was most worried about!
I didn't know if was going to explode or anything.
The sticker says it has a 300 psi pressure valve or something like that.
I dont' know what 300 psi looks like plastered all over my garage, but I'll
bet it isn't pretty!

Donna

I am not sure why it would be leaking cold water if it is working and
therefore the water in the tank would be hot. Check above the hot water
heater to see if any cold water pipes or any valves are dripping a little,
and if the dripping water is then running down the outside to the bottom,
making it look like the tank is leaking when it isn't.

If it's definitely the tank that is leaking (but leaking "cold" water makes
me wonder about that), there is a risk that it will leak more in the next
few days and be a big mess. Depending on where the tank is located, that
could be a problem. If it's in a basement with a drain, and/or with nothing
around on the floor that could be damaged by water, a bigger leak may not be
a huge problem.

To be safer, when you leave the house, you can turn off the main water valve
to the house, or if you know where the cold water feeds into the top of the
hot water heater, you could just turn that valve off. Then, if there is a
big leak, mostly only the water in the tank will leak out rather than having
an unending flow of water running out of the bottom of the tank.

Skip the tankless water heater idea -- lot's of problems and not worth it.

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in
message ...
Can I get some quick trusty advice on a dripping gas 40 gallon hot-water
heater?

I noticed my hot-water heater leaking and my husband is out of town.
He says wait until he comes back (1 week) but I am afraid something bad
will happen. He also says maybe we should replace with an instant on
tankless heater but I want to get it done today!

Do you have quick advice on hot-water heaters?

1. If it's leaking cold water from the bottom but still working, is it not
repairable (I assume it's a throwaway item).

2. It's at least as new/old as when I moved into this house around 2000
and
it has an energy efficiency sticker so it's not that old. But, would you
replace it with a bigger (only two people in the small house as the kids
are gone) one or even go tankless?

3. Is it a home repair or, due to gas, is it only by a qualified pro?

4. Do most of you go to Home Depot or the like and just pick one and have
them install it or is there a "better" way?

5. I never did anything preventative but googling talks about a
sacrificial
anode and draining; should I have done that (I'm guessing yes).

6. If we go tankless, are there "gotchas" we need to watch out for?

Sorry for so many questions!
But it would be nice to get your off-the-cuff advice again!

Donna

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in
message

It is definately not-hot water (i,e., cool) leaking at the bottom of the
tank. I'll snap a photo and show you. The top has the two pipes coming in,
one is cold; the other is hot. It's working.

It is a good idea to shut off the water coming in (that limits my risk to
40 gallons max); but you didn't state whether I should turn off the gas
also.

I suspect that I must - but can you confirm that the gas goes off with the
water inlet getting shut off?

Donna

Be sue the water is not hot water that cooled on the trip to where you see
it.

If you shut the water off, you do not have to shut the gas off as long as
you keep water in the tank.

On Feb 10, 11:32 am, N8N wrote:
4. Do most of you go to Home Depot or the like and just pick one and have
them install it or is there a "better" way?

I would avoid that orange colored circle of Hell like the plague and
call a real plumber.

Well, I went to the HD and bought one and installed it myself. They
sell a nice self-install kit with steel-braided lines, adapters (if
you need them), etc. They have reasonably priced GE models, priced by
the level of insulation, efficiency and other reasonable criteria.

After hours of cursing and sweating to remove the old plumbing,
draining and lugging the old one out, installing and leak-testing the
new one, I thought the around $300 installation price they had wanted
wasn't unreasonable. IIRC, it was around $700 installed next day for
their top-of-the-line heater.

Beats leaving messages on answering services for so-called 24x7x365
plumbers, and the uncertainty. That said, I would shop Sears too, what
is a few phone calls here and there?

On Feb 10, 12:25*pm, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
wrote:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:45:37 -0800 (PST), N8N wrote:
Most water heaters have a 6 year warranty; that means that anything
over 10 years or so without regular maintenance is borrowed time. *

Hi Nate,
Thanks for the continued advice.
This "warranty" stuff always confused me.
On the one hand, Consumer Reports says never buy the extended warranties
for electronics and the like and on the other hand, for their hot-water
heaters, they say get the ones with the longest warrantee because they
"tend to be insulated better".

Since a warrantee is merely a marketing gimmick, I find the fact that there
is any correlation between warrantee and actual product quality suspicious..

I'm an old(er) woman and I've *never* made good on any warrantee for
anything sizeable ever. I remember muffler warrantees in the 80's where by
the time I needed a new muffler, I didn't even remember where I bought the
last one. Same with automotive batteries and brake pads. Sure, they're
warranted, but, when your tire blows, you need a new tire and you can't
shop around for the store that sold you the warrantee.

Since a warrantee is merely a marketing gimmick, how can there be *any*
correlation between warrantee and actual quality?

Donna

As far as water heaters go, the only difference I'm aware of is extra
anodes for the 10 or 12 year warranty models. If you're checking them
every year when you flush and replacing when necessary, it doesn't
matter. I'd pick 'em based on efficiency ratings, BTU/hr ratings, and
price.

nate

"N8N" wrote in message
...


kicking. just goes to show you that there is wide variation in the
life of a WH probably primarily due to local water conditions.

nate


My gas-fired tank is 30 years old & still working fine. Unlike yours
though, I think the previous owners did at least drain it occasionally, as
evidenced by the well-hacked-up edges of the plastic drain valve being
attacked by water pump pliers or whatever. But if it does ever leak, it's
going to the landfill. Since it's right over the floor drain, I don't worry
about it much.

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 13:53:59 -0500, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

If you shut the water off, you do not have to shut the gas off as long as
you keep water in the tank.

Hi Edwin,

Thank you for this home water heater gas line shut off tidbit as it's not
obvious to me the heater can have no water coming in but the gas can be
left running - but it makes it easier for me so I'm glad to know that.

Donna

more expensive longer life tanks tend to have better insulation, brass
rather than plastic drain valves and built in pilot igniters.

I prefer the higher 75K BTU larger tank, to avoid running out of hot
water....

Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator wrote:
Can I get some quick trusty advice on a dripping gas 40 gallon hot-water
heater?

I noticed my hot-water heater leaking and my husband is out of town.
He says wait until he comes back (1 week) but I am afraid something bad
will happen. He also says maybe we should replace with an instant on
tankless heater but I want to get it done today!

Do you have quick advice on hot-water heaters?

1. If it's leaking cold water from the bottom but still working, is it not
repairable (I assume it's a throwaway item).

2. It's at least as new/old as when I moved into this house around 2000 and
it has an energy efficiency sticker so it's not that old. But, would you
replace it with a bigger (only two people in the small house as the kids
are gone) one or even go tankless?

3. Is it a home repair or, due to gas, is it only by a qualified pro?

4. Do most of you go to Home Depot or the like and just pick one and have
them install it or is there a "better" way?

5. I never did anything preventative but googling talks about a sacrificial
anode and draining; should I have done that (I'm guessing yes).

6. If we go tankless, are there "gotchas" we need to watch out for?

Sorry for so many questions!
But it would be nice to get your off-the-cuff advice again!

Donna

I assume it's leaking from the body of the tank, not from a connection
or the pressure relief valve.

Chances are the heater is done. 5 year warranty?

If I's just a slow drip, and is controllable you could last a week,
but it could let go anytime.

Is it down the basement on a concrete floor with no possibility of
water damage? If not the damage bill may exceed the cost of replacing
10 heaters.

The safe bet is to call a plumber and replace the tank as soon as
possible. The labor to replace the tank with a similar unit will
likely be less than that of a tankless. Less modifications to the
water and gas lines.

Bite the bullet and take your lumps, the joys of being a home owner.

I built a new house and installed a conventional electric heater a
few years ago. At the time I couldn't justify the additional expense
of a tankless heater.

LdB

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:09:51 -0800 (PST), N8N wrote:

I'd pick 'em based on efficiency ratings, BTU/hr ratings, and
price.

Hi Nate,

Good advice,

I'm on the (1-800-HOME-DEP) line waiting to ask for the all-important FHR
and EF numbers for the dozen available hot water heaters.

- 1-800-466-3337
- Press 1 for installation services
- Ask for "water heater" assistance
- Give them your zip code
- They transfer you to the water heater department
- 1-800-79DEPOT
- Press 2 for water heaters
- Press 2 for water heaters (not tankless)
- Home Depot Home Services (exclusive suppliers of GE hot water heaters)
- The operator, a David Kershaw, didn't even know what FHR stood for!
- Not a good sign ... I'm gonna call their Water Heater Services at
- 877-467-0542

I'm still waiting on the phone to get someone who knows what it is they are
selling; but this is disconcerting they don't even know the first thing
about what it is they supposedly specialize in at that number.

Donna

Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator wrote:

Do you have quick advice on hot-water heaters?

1. If it's leaking cold water from the bottom but still working, is
it not repairable (I assume it's a throwaway item).

Correct. The heater may be okay but you have a leaking pipe. Improbable, but
possible.


2. It's at least as new/old as when I moved into this house around
2000 and it has an energy efficiency sticker so it's not that old.
But, would you replace it with a bigger (only two people in the small
house as the kids are gone) one or even go tankless?

Seven years can be about right for an economy model in harsh water
conditions. If the capacity has been adequate, replace it with the same. A
larger capacity model does not last longer and may introduce connection
issues (the pipes are in the wrong place).


3. Is it a home repair or, due to gas, is it only by a qualified pro?

For a traditional male with the right tools, it's a DIY. For wimps, metros,
the aged, the infirm, those too busy, or for those who know the names of
more than about six colors, it's a pro job.


4. Do most of you go to Home Depot or the like and just pick one and
have them install it or is there a "better" way?

Water heaters are commodity items. The same model is the same model.
Installation is non-tricky - it's hard to believe even the fools selected by
HD could screw it up. After removing the old heater, you set the new one in
place and connect three pipes. You're done.


5. I never did anything preventative but googling talks about a
sacrificial anode and draining; should I have done that (I'm guessing
yes).

Too late, now. How often to drain (if ever) depends on the quality of your
water. Study on this later.


6. If we go tankless, are there "gotchas" we need to watch out for?

Several. You'll need at least three (kitchen, bath, and laundry). This
usually means running new electrical service to hard-to-reach places.


Sorry for so many questions!
But it would be nice to get your off-the-cuff advice again!

If you can live without hot water until your husband returns:

Drain the hot water heater:

1. Turn off the water supply valve to the water heater. There are two pipes
attached to the top, close the valve that is found on one of the pipes.
2. Turn the heater's gas valve to OFF
3. Hook up a water hose to the outlet found near the bottom of the water
heater, put the other end of the garden hose outside.
4. Turn the valve that's built into to the place on the water heater where
you hooked up the hose.
5. Open any hot-water faucet (this allows air to enter the tank).

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message news:wyGrj.11858
5. I never did anything preventative but googling talks about a sacrificial
anode and draining; should I have done that (I'm guessing yes).

I think that is more of an eectric thing than gas.

It applies equally to electric and gas heaters.

O.P. Don't panic over a small leak. Chances are it will survive till he gets
back just fine.

Bob

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 15:58:35 -0600, L D'Bonnie wrote:

Is it down the basement on a concrete floor with no possibility of
water damage?

It's in a concrete-floored garage on a wooden pedestal so there's not much
by way of water damage that can occur if the leak were to exascerbate in
the next few days.

The safe bet is to call a plumber and replace the tank as soon as
possible. The labor to replace the tank with a similar unit will
likely be less than that of a tankless.
I've since given up on tankless for the retrofit costs. The labor at Home
Depot seems to be $309 to hook up the new hot water heater and haul away
the old one; plus $55 for earthquake straps; plus $50 for permits; plus
taxes of roughly 9% on the parts and service.

Bite the bullet and take your lumps, the joys of being a home owner.
Here are the comparisons I can generate so far, based on what Home Depot
says at their Bronx New York Water Heater Servicing Center.

The prices below are installed but sans earthquake straps, permits, &
taxes. Note that the Home Depot water heater servicing center had no
figures for the BTUs (they said they weren't important). They mostly pushed
warranty but I did my comparison by cost per First Hour Rating.

Home Depot Water Heater Servicing Center (877-467-0542)
by price (installed), SKU, FHR, EF, BTU, volume, and warranty:
$608 SG40T12AVH/182-755 72galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 6-yr(drain 2x/year)
$658 SG50T12AVH/183-717 80galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 6-yr(drain 2x/year)
$677 SG40T12AVH/182-786 72galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 9-yr(self cleaning)
$718 SG50T12AVH/184-076 80galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 9-yr(self cleaning)
$728 SG40T12AVH/182-953 68galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 12-yr(self cleaning)
$783 SG50T12AVH/185-191 83galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 12-yr(self cleaning)

Here are the best numbers I could find by going to the local Home Depot.
Notice the only way to get the all-important First Hour Rating was to open
each and every box which the floorperson balked at so I don't know that or
the Energy Factor.

Here is what was at the store by price, UPC, FHR, ER, BTU, volume, &
warranty:
$280, 514017, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 34K, 40gal, 3yr
$290, 509501, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 36K, 40gal, 6yr
$350, 519005, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 38K, 40gal, 9yr
$350, 431048, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 38K, 50gal, 6yr
$360, 494272, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 40K, 40gal, 6yr
$370, 551821, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 40K, 40gal, 9yr
$380, 569840, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 34K, 40gal, 6yr
$410, 431055, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 38K, 50gal, 9yr
$420, 518411, ??gal FHR, .59EF, 40K, 40gal, 12yr
$420, 494302, 68gal FHR, .??EF, 40K, 50gal, 6yr
$440, 518435, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 40K, 50gal, 12yr

Do any of these choices seem most reasonable to replace my existing 65
gallon First Hour Rating, ??EF, 40 gallon, 35,000 BTU 50" tall by 18"
diameter gas-fired shelf-mounted earthquake-strapped hot water heater?

Donna

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:19:50 -0800 (PST), Nexus7 wrote:

I went to the HD and bought one and installed it myself. They
sell a nice self-install kit with steel-braided lines, adapters (if
you need them), etc. They have reasonably priced GE models, priced by
the level of insulation, efficiency and other reasonable criteria.

Hi Nexus,
I took your lead and went to the Home Depot myself.
The guy there was very helpful; he said don't buy there.

He said write down the prices and the models and choose one.
Then, call the 800-HOME-DEPOT number to buy.

The installation is $309 & it changes the warranty period in strange ways.

BTW, according to Consumer Reports, the MOST IMPORTANT figure, the "First
Hour Rating" (FHR) was MISSING at Home Depot. So was the second most
important buying figure, the efficiency rating (EF).

This is disapointing. Home Depot talked about warranty and price and
gallonage but skipped the important criteria (according to my quick
ressearch today). So, I'm trying to put it together now so we can
comparison shop.

You had to open each and every box to get that information right off the
unit - and the orange-vested guy didn't want me to do that so may I ask
WHERE I'm supposed to get the critical numbers missing below in order to do
a proper home hot water heater installation comparison decision?

Here's what they had (price, UPC, FHR, EF, BTU, gal, Warranty):
$280, 514017, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 34K, 40gal, 3yr
$290, 509501, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 36K, 40gal, 6yr
$350, 519005, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 38K, 40gal, 9yr
$350, 431048, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 38K, 50gal, 6yr
$360, 494272, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 40K, 40gal, 6yr
$370, 551821, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 40K, 40gal, 9yr
$380, 569840, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 34K, 40gal, 6yr
$410, 431055, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 38K, 50gal, 9yr
$420, 518411, ??gal FHR, .59EF, 40K, 40gal, 12yr
$420, 494302, 68gal FHR, .??EF, 40K, 50gal, 6yr
$440, 518435, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 40K, 40gal, 12yr

Do you know where I can get the FHR and EF ratings for the Home Depot water
heaters currently on sale? (I'll call the 800 number after this message.)

Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator wrote:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:19:50 -0800 (PST), Nexus7 wrote:


I went to the HD and bought one and installed it myself. They
sell a nice self-install kit with steel-braided lines, adapters (if
you need them), etc. They have reasonably priced GE models, priced by
the level of insulation, efficiency and other reasonable criteria.


Hi Nexus,
I took your lead and went to the Home Depot myself.
The guy there was very helpful; he said don't buy there.

He said write down the prices and the models and choose one.
Then, call the 800-HOME-DEPOT number to buy.

The installation is $309 & it changes the warranty period in strange ways.

BTW, according to Consumer Reports, the MOST IMPORTANT figure, the "First
Hour Rating" (FHR) was MISSING at Home Depot. So was the second most
important buying figure, the efficiency rating (EF).

This is disapointing. Home Depot talked about warranty and price and
gallonage but skipped the important criteria (according to my quick
ressearch today). So, I'm trying to put it together now so we can
comparison shop.

You had to open each and every box to get that information right off the
unit - and the orange-vested guy didn't want me to do that so may I ask
WHERE I'm supposed to get the critical numbers missing below in order to do
a proper home hot water heater installation comparison decision?

Here's what they had (price, UPC, FHR, EF, BTU, gal, Warranty):
$280, 514017, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 34K, 40gal, 3yr
$290, 509501, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 36K, 40gal, 6yr
$350, 519005, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 38K, 40gal, 9yr
$350, 431048, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 38K, 50gal, 6yr
$360, 494272, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 40K, 40gal, 6yr
$370, 551821, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 40K, 40gal, 9yr
$380, 569840, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 34K, 40gal, 6yr
$410, 431055, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 38K, 50gal, 9yr
$420, 518411, ??gal FHR, .59EF, 40K, 40gal, 12yr
$420, 494302, 68gal FHR, .??EF, 40K, 50gal, 6yr
$440, 518435, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 40K, 40gal, 12yr

Do you know where I can get the FHR and EF ratings for the Home Depot water
heaters currently on sale? (I'll call the 800 number after this message.)

I think the ones HD sells are made by GE, try their web site.

Also since you have gas, make sure you buy a unit the same height or
shorter than your existing unit, unless you have a flue that you are
certain you can shorten safely (that is, maintaining a reasonable slope
where it runs horizontally if anywhere) don't want to install the new
heater and then find you have to rip it out because it's backdrafting!

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Do any of these choices seem most reasonable to replace my existing 65
gallon First Hour Rating, ??EF, 40 gallon, 35,000 BTU 50" tall by 18"
diameter gas-fired shelf-mounted earthquake-strapped hot water heater?

It would be nice if there were freeware to do all these calculations for
us! (I'll ask the wonderful folks on the freeware newsgroup if they have
any "special" cost-per-FHR calculators other than standard calculators).

Here is what the choices seem to be by cost per FHR (which seems like the
only reasonable comparison).

Home Depot Water Heater Servicing Center (877-467-0542)
by cost per FHR given the price (installed), price for the heater, SKU,
FHR, EF, BTU, volume, and warranty:

$4.15 $608 $299 182-755 72galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 6-yr(drain 2x/year)
$4.36 $658 $349 183-717 80galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 6-yr(drain 2x/year)
$5.11 $677 $368 182-786 72galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 9-yr(self cleaning)
$5.11 $718 $409 184-076 80galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 9-yr(self cleaning)
$6.16 $728 $419 182-953 68galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 12-yr(self cleaning)
$4.51 $783 $374 185-191 83galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 12-yr(self cleaning)

Given the cost per FHR for the Home Depot hot water heaters above, it seems
like the best bet, economically and maintenance wise, is the $5.11 per
first hour rating 72-gallon FHR 40-gallon $368 dollar ($677 + $55
earthquake straps + $50 permit fee + ~$50 local taxes) GE
SG40T12AVH/182-786 hot water heater.

Do you agree?
That is, does this cost per FHR comparison seem logical to you?

It would be nice if there were freeware to do these calculations for us so
I'm including the freeware team on this (they helped me years ago with a
freeware garage-door torsion-spring calculator which was utterly fantastic
- maybe they have similar freeware calculators for home water heater
replacement comparisons!).

Donna

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:40:55 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:
that gap is normal, and you say "vertical" making me think that you
could just cut some off and still be OK, yes?

Hi Nate,
Thanks for asking. I appreciate the help.
Since the hot water heater is in a garage, there is a foot and a half
"bench" it's sitting on, then the 50 inches of hot water heater, then at
least a few feet of vertical pipe to get near the cieling which is way up
there.

So, I would guess they can cut off 8 or 9 inches and the vertical
three-inch wide pipe would still be a few feet vertically.

I'm a bit more worried about the hot-water pipes as the S-shaped coiled
pipes are only about a foot long but if we take 9 inches out of that, it
leaves them only being about 3 inches long which doesn't seem like enough
for an "S" dont'cha think?

Donna

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:48:03 -0600, HeyBub wrote:

I thought the around $300 installation price they had wanted
wasn't unreasonable. IIRC, it was around $700 installed next day for
their top-of-the-line heater.

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the advice. I'm making progress in the past few hours,
learning more than I ever knew about my hot water heater!

A call to the Home Depot Water Heater Servicing Center in 'da Bronx
(877-467-0542) uncovered the following choices by price installed (sans
about $55 for earthquake straps & another $50 for a local permit, if
needed) by SKU, FHR, EF, Gal, BTUs, & warranty:

$608 SG40T12AVH/182-755 72galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 6-yr(drain 2x/year)
$658 SG50T12AVH/183-717 80galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 6-yr(drain 2x/year)
$677 SG40T12AVH/182-786 72galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 9-yr(self cleaning)
$718 SG50T12AVH/184-076 80galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 9-yr(self cleaning)
$728 SG40T12AVH/182-953 68galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 12-yr(self cleaning)
$783 SG50T12AVH/185-191 83galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 12-yr(self cleaning)

Keeping in mind my existing (leaking) 65 gallon First Hour Rated 40 gallon
35,000 BTU gas-fired hot water heater is roughly equivalent to the first
one (i.e., least expensive) on the list, it looks like I can't go too far
wrong with any of these.

Do my assumptions (focusing on the cost per FHR) make sense moving forward?

Donna

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:41:50 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:

Also since you have gas, make sure you buy a unit the same height or
shorter than your existing unit, unless you have a flue that you are
certain you can shorten safely (that is, maintaining a reasonable slope
where it runs horizontally if anywhere) don't want to install the new
heater and then find you have to rip it out because it's backdrafting!

Hi Nate,

I should note the new hot water heaters are taller (about 58 and 59 inches
versus 50 inches for the existing water heater) and wider (about 19.75 to
21.75 inches in diameter as opposed to about 18 inches for the existing hot
water heater).

The guy on the phone said it wouldn't be a problem. There is about an inch
of space between the top of the existing 50" tall water heater and the
3-inch or so wide vertical vent pipe with a hat on top to gather in the
fumes (I guess).

The hot water coiled pipes are about a foot long currently and bent like a
U shape.

Donna

Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator wrote:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:41:50 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:


Also since you have gas, make sure you buy a unit the same height or
shorter than your existing unit, unless you have a flue that you are
certain you can shorten safely (that is, maintaining a reasonable slope
where it runs horizontally if anywhere) don't want to install the new
heater and then find you have to rip it out because it's backdrafting!


Hi Nate,

I should note the new hot water heaters are taller (about 58 and 59 inches
versus 50 inches for the existing water heater) and wider (about 19.75 to
21.75 inches in diameter as opposed to about 18 inches for the existing hot
water heater).

as long as you have the space...


The guy on the phone said it wouldn't be a problem. There is about an inch
of space between the top of the existing 50" tall water heater and the
3-inch or so wide vertical vent pipe with a hat on top to gather in the
fumes (I guess).

that gap is normal, and you say "vertical" making me think that you
could just cut some off and still be OK, yes?


The hot water coiled pipes are about a foot long currently and bent like a
U shape.

you mean more like an "S" laying on its side? That's good. those bends
act like a heat trap, and most installers don't bother to put them in.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:12:41 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:

I wouldn't worry about that at all. you can just take it out of the
copper hard lines if you have to. (I'm assuming that you're referring
to corrugated flexible copper connectors above.)

Hi Nate,
Yes, I was referring to the corrugated flexible copper pipes connected to
the rigid galvanized steel pipes coming out of the wall near the garage
ceiling.

I guess they can cut the galvanized pipes because they are at least 18
inches or so vertical.

But I don't know if Home Depot includes cutting the galvanized pipes in the
cost. Should I call them back and order a shorter (50 inch vs 58 inch) hot
water heater so as to preserve the S coil without having to cut the
galvanized steel water pipes?

Donna

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:09:43 GMT, Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator
wrote:
A call to the Home Depot Water Heater Servicing Center in 'da Bronx
(877-467-0542) uncovered the following choices by price installed (sans
about $55 for earthquake straps & another $50 for a local permit, if
needed) by SKU, FHR, EF, Gal, BTUs, & warranty:

$608 SG40T12AVH/182-755 72galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 6-yr(drain 2x/year)
$658 SG50T12AVH/183-717 80galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 6-yr(drain 2x/year)
$677 SG40T12AVH/182-786 72galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 9-yr(self cleaning)
$718 SG50T12AVH/184-076 80galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 9-yr(self cleaning)
$728 SG40T12AVH/182-953 68galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 12-yr(self cleaning)
$783 SG50T12AVH/185-191 83galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 12-yr(self cleaning)

Does anyone know if these guys "bargain"?

That is, if I call the Sears Kenmore Water Heater Center 1-800-877-6420,
and give them the Home Depot price - would they modify their prices in the
call? Does that happen?

I'd try it but when I thought about it today, the Kenmore folks were
closed.

So, I figured I'd ask if it helps to "bargain" with the online folks?
Anyone know if they give "instant discounts"?

Donna

Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator wrote:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:40:55 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:

that gap is normal, and you say "vertical" making me think that you
could just cut some off and still be OK, yes?


Hi Nate,
Thanks for asking. I appreciate the help.
Since the hot water heater is in a garage, there is a foot and a half
"bench" it's sitting on, then the 50 inches of hot water heater, then at
least a few feet of vertical pipe to get near the cieling which is way up
there.

So, I would guess they can cut off 8 or 9 inches and the vertical
three-inch wide pipe would still be a few feet vertically.

that's fine, no worries there then.


I'm a bit more worried about the hot-water pipes as the S-shaped coiled
pipes are only about a foot long but if we take 9 inches out of that, it
leaves them only being about 3 inches long which doesn't seem like enough
for an "S" dont'cha think?

Donna

I wouldn't worry about that at all. you can just take it out of the
copper hard lines if you have to. (I'm assuming that you're referring
to corrugated flexible copper connectors above.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

In article , "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote:

Home Depot Water Heater Servicing Center (877-467-0542)
by cost per FHR given the price (installed), price for the heater, SKU,
FHR, EF, BTU, volume, and warranty:

$4.15 $608 $299 182-755 72galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 6-yr(drain 2x/year)
$4.36 $658 $349 183-717 80galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 6-yr(drain 2x/year)
$5.11 $677 $368 182-786 72galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 9-yr(self cleaning)
$5.11 $718 $409 184-076 80galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 9-yr(self cleaning)
$6.16 $728 $419 182-953 68galFHR 0.59EF ??KBTU 40gal 12-yr(self cleaning)
$4.51 $783 $374 185-191 83galFHR 0.58EF ??KBTU 50gal 12-yr(self cleaning)

Given the cost per FHR for the Home Depot hot water heaters above, it seems
like the best bet, economically and maintenance wise, is the $5.11 per
first hour rating 72-gallon FHR 40-gallon $368 dollar ($677 + $55
earthquake straps + $50 permit fee + ~$50 local taxes) GE
SG40T12AVH/182-786 hot water heater.

Do you agree?
That is, does this cost per FHR comparison seem logical to you?

It's a useful tool but not the whole story, especially in
what I gather will be a low usage situation. That would
steer me to a small capacity heater and one with the very
best insulation I could find. A longer warranty is good
provided you're not paying an unreasonable premium for it.

In a low usage situation I would try and establish the
R-values of the insulation in each product before making
a final decision.

Also take into account the "quality" of your local water.
If harsh, and you want a long life, consider a heater with
a stainless steel tank (although there's a significant
price premium).

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In article ,
Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator wrote:
[ ... ]
Here is what was at the store by price, UPC, FHR, ER, BTU, volume, &
warranty:
[ ... ]
$350, 519005, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 38K, 40gal, 9yr
[ ... ]
$370, 551821, ??gal FHR, .??EF, 40K, 40gal, 9yr
[ ... ]

Do any of these choices seem most reasonable to replace my existing 65
gallon First Hour Rating, ??EF, 40 gallon, 35,000 BTU 50" tall by 18"
diameter gas-fired shelf-mounted earthquake-strapped hot water heater?

The two above should equal or exceed the FHR of your existing heater.
That's mainly a function of BTUs, so the second of the two above will
be slightly better; of course, it'll burn a bit more gas. If that's a
concern, go with the first.


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

We live in amazing times, when one person can invent both the Internet
and global warming, then get awarded a "peace prize".

Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator wrote:

Do any of these choices seem most reasonable to replace my existing 65
gallon First Hour Rating, ??EF, 40 gallon, 35,000 BTU 50" tall by 18"
diameter gas-fired shelf-mounted earthquake-strapped hot water heater?

It would be nice if there were freeware to do all these calculations for
us! (I'll ask the wonderful folks on the freeware newsgroup if they have
any "special" cost-per-FHR calculators other than standard calculators).

Nope.

Susan

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 22:32:43 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:
Hi Nate and others,
I appreciate the help.
One thing that confuses me to no end is this EFFICIENCY thing.

If both a 50 gallon and 40 gallon water heater has the same 59 percent
efficiency factor ... do they cost the SAME to heat?

Or does the 50 gallon water heater actually cost more even if it's the same
efficiency?

The reason I ask is I assumed they cost the same to operate but someone
said the smaller water heater will cost less to operate even if the
efficiency factor is the same.

Can someone who understands this clarify if a larger heater truly costs
more to operate than a smaller volume heater even if the efficiency factor
is the same?

Donna

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 03:28:11 GMT, James Sweet wrote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 03:28:11 GMT, James Sweet wrote:
The only number that really matters to you is the capacity

Hi James,
I don't wish to argue and I certainly appreciate any help but I think
that's bad advice based on what I read.

For example, look he
http://www.candcheat.com/webapp/GetPage?pid=149

Where it says:
Although many consumers make water heater purchase decisions based only on
the size of the storage tank, the first-hour rating (FHR), provided on the
Energy Guide label, is actually more important. The FHR is a measure of how
much hot water the heater will deliver during a busy hour. The FHR is
required by law to appear on the unit's Energy Guide label. Therefore,
before you buy a water heater, estimate your household's peak-hour demand
and look for a unit with an FHR in that range. And beware that a larger
tank doesn't necessarily mean a higher FHR.

The point is that the volume of the water heater is, apparently,
meaningless from a standpoint of delivering enough hot water to meet our
needs. The volume is merely (apparently) a starting point - just like the
warranty is as meaningless as the volume.

So, it seems, based on my research, that to buy by volume and warranty are
exactly what the manufacturers want you to do to keep you as far away from
meaningful critera as possible.

What's really important, it seems, is the FHR and the EF. The only thing
I'm really confused about is whether two equal efficiency (to simplify the
argument) hot water heaters of two different sizes cost the same or
different amounts.

Do you know?

Donna

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:26:24 -0000, Gary Heston wrote:
That's mainly a function of BTUs, so the second of the two above will
be slightly better; of course, it'll burn a bit more gas. If that's a
concern, go with the first.

I'm still looking up ways to make a smart decision.
One thing I've noticed is that the efficiency factors I've been quoted from
Home Depot stink (basically 58 to 59 percent).

I called PG&E and they pointed me to a $30 rebate but only for residential
gas water heaters of an EF of 62% or greater.
http://www.pge.com/res/rebates/gas_electric_storage/

Does anyone know where to find a 40gallon or 50gallon hot water heater with
that efficiency rating at a major chain (sears or home depot or ???).
http://www.pge.com/res/rebates/

Donna