 |
|
| Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
| Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
I'm still trying to learn things about my planer....
I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. |
|
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
... I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Snipe can occur at both ends. I would just take a sacrificial board (or two) about 4" longer than the pieces you need to plane down and place one on each side of the sacrificial board. Each would be about 2" from the ends of the sacrificial board. -- Bob S. |
|
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Friday, March 29, 2019 at 9:53:55 PM UTC-4, n/a wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message ... I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Snipe can occur at both ends. True. My example set up didn't show the trailing sacrificial board. Didn't have one available for the picture. I would just take a sacrificial board (or two) about 4" longer than the pieces you need to plane down and place one on each side of the sacrificial board. Each would be about 2" from the ends of the sacrificial board. Yes, that is an option, except that some of the boards are up to 5' long. I have boards that I can grove and send in cross grain, but I don't have any long boards to use as sacrificial boards. Can you use short sacrificial boards on the sides of the leading and trailing ends to accomplish the same goal or will something happen to the cutter head once the leading boards have gone past and then again when the trailing boards are engaged? (How I would physically accomplish that is a different question.) BTW?..one of the reasons for this post is to start a discussion about cross grain planing. Things have been slow in the wRec...just trying to liven things up. ;-) |
|
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. How are you proposing to keep the trailer in place? 90-degree cross grain is scary...but if you only take paper-thin passes and with poplar you've got at least a _reasonable_ chance you won't have an explosion. What _can_ happen is instead of a knife cutting cleanly, the piece of material simply fractures and throws chunks back at you (damhikt). My answer is 1) thickness sander 2) jointer 3) hand plane not necessarily in that order... -- |
|
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Saturday, March 30, 2019 at 10:22:54 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. How are you proposing to keep the trailer in place? 90-degree cross grain is scary...but if you only take paper-thin passes and with poplar you've got at least a _reasonable_ chance you won't have an explosion. What _can_ happen is instead of a knife cutting cleanly, the piece of material simply fractures and throws chunks back at you (damhikt). My answer is 1) thickness sander Don't have one, not going to buy one. 2) jointer Don't have one, not going to buy one. 3) hand plane Have old hand-me-downs which I don't plan to refurb and/or learn to use. not necessarily in that order... In that order ;-) |
|
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 3/30/2019 10:19 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, March 30, 2019 at 10:22:54 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. How are you proposing to keep the trailer in place? 90-degree cross grain is scary...but if you only take paper-thin passes and with poplar you've got at least a _reasonable_ chance you won't have an explosion. What _can_ happen is instead of a knife cutting cleanly, the piece of material simply fractures and throws chunks back at you (damhikt). My answer is 1) thickness sander Don't have one, not going to buy one. Find a local shop w/ one that will run 'em for you... 2) jointer Don't have one, not going to buy one. Can't do without... 3) hand plane Have old hand-me-downs which I don't plan to refurb and/or learn to use. Ditto squared... not necessarily in that order... In that order ;-) 4) Use sanding disk in the TS -- a (very) slightly a-kilter fence for lead in to the final thickness on trail side. A couple passes or three... 5) Resaw... 6) Just change your design... I'll never recommend 90-deg cross grain in a planer again--it was that scary (albeit it was a case where I "just wasn't thinking!" and did have it set at a cut but at least for me, it ain't something I'm doing again. I still don't follow how you would intent to solve the first Q? I posed, however... -- |
|
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Saturday, March 30, 2019 at 2:38:35 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 3/30/2019 10:19 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, March 30, 2019 at 10:22:54 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. How are you proposing to keep the trailer in place? 90-degree cross grain is scary...but if you only take paper-thin passes and with poplar you've got at least a _reasonable_ chance you won't have an explosion. What _can_ happen is instead of a knife cutting cleanly, the piece of material simply fractures and throws chunks back at you (damhikt). My answer is 1) thickness sander Don't have one, not going to buy one. Find a local shop w/ one that will run 'em for you... A possibility, although the final thickness of different boards may vary. Determining how much needs to be removed on a board by board basis is not known at this time. I'll explain why later. 2) jointer Don't have one, not going to buy one. Can't do without... Sorry, I gotta call BS on that one. Newsgroups, forums, youtube, magazines, etc. are filled with the line "If you don't have a jointer..." followed by a workaround. There are thousands of woodworkers that have built lots of stuff without a jointer. I've built beds, bookcases, base cabinets, a cribbage board or three, benches, night stands, a kitchen island, an entertainment center, etc, etc. all without a jointer. When you don't have room, you do it some other way or on very occasions, find someone to do it for you. You can certainly do without. Thousands of us do. 3) hand plane Have old hand-me-downs which I don't plan to refurb and/or learn to use. Ditto squared... Maybe someday, but not this day. not necessarily in that order... In that order ;-) 4) Use sanding disk in the TS -- a (very) slightly a-kilter fence for lead in to the final thickness on trail side. A couple passes or three... A possibility. 5) Resaw... A possibility. 6) Just change your design... A little late for that. About 5 years ago I cut all the rails and stiles for a couple of dozen Shaker style kitchen cabinet doors. 100+ boards. Many different lengths and widths. All of the boards have been grooved and most of the tenons were cut. Changing my design would mean starting over, throwing away a lot of wood and a lot of man-hours. Now that I'm back at it, I've discovered that some of the boards are thicker than others. A rookie mistake 5 years ago, but I didn't have a planer at the time anyway. Now I do, and I think I can fix the problem as I dry fit each door and determine how much, if any needs to be planed off. That's why sending them out will be troublesome. This is going to be long drawn out process, a door here and a door there, as time allows. Spring is coming. Vacations, graduations, outdoor projects, etc. I'll never recommend 90-deg cross grain in a planer again--it was that scary (albeit it was a case where I "just wasn't thinking!" and did have it set at a cut but at least for me, it ain't something I'm doing again. I won't be doing it. I still don't follow how you would intent to solve the first Q? I posed, however... I don't have to solve that issue, because I won't be planing cross grain. :-) I'll find another way to thin the boards without snipe. I tried a couple today and found that if I send them in at an angle, there is virtually no snipe. That will work as long as it's the rails that are thicker. We'll have to see about the longer stiles. At 2 1/2", maybe re-sawing (essentially shaving) them on the table saw will work. |
|
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 3/30/2019 6:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, March 30, 2019 at 2:38:35 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote: .... 2) jointer Don't have one, not going to buy one. Can't do without... Sorry, I gotta call BS on that one. Newsgroups, forums, youtube, magazines, etc. are filled with the line "If you don't have a jointer..." followed by a workaround. There are thousands of woodworkers that have built lots of stuff without a jointer. I've built beds, bookcases, base cabinets, a cribbage board or three, benches, night stands, a kitchen island, an entertainment center, etc, etc. all without a jointer. When you don't have room, you do it some other way or on very occasions, find someone to do it for you. You can certainly do without. Thousands of us do. You were from your POV, I was from mine...if it were me, I'd make the room...if you want to continue to struggle, so be it; your call. .... Now that I'm back at it, I've discovered that some of the boards are thicker than others. A rookie mistake 5 years ago, but I didn't have a planer at the time anyway. Now I do, and I think I can fix the problem as I dry fit each door and determine how much, if any needs to be planed off. .... If you at least cut the grooves/tenons from the same side, just go ahead and assemble and then take the finished doors to a pro to run them through the sander... -- |
|
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Sunday, March 31, 2019 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 3/30/2019 6:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, March 30, 2019 at 2:38:35 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote: ... 2) jointer Don't have one, not going to buy one. Can't do without... Sorry, I gotta call BS on that one. Newsgroups, forums, youtube, magazines, etc. are filled with the line "If you don't have a jointer..." followed by a workaround. There are thousands of woodworkers that have built lots of stuff without a jointer. I've built beds, bookcases, base cabinets, a cribbage board or three, benches, night stands, a kitchen island, an entertainment center, etc, etc. all without a jointer. When you don't have room, you do it some other way or on very occasions, find someone to do it for you. You can certainly do without. Thousands of us do. You were from your POV, I was from mine... Yes, POV certainly matters. So does actual physical limitations and the balance between working wood and the rest of day-to-day life. if it were me, I'd make the room... Marie Antoinette is famous for uttering the phrase "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", essentially "Let them eat cake." This is often attributed to the supposition that she had a poor understanding of the peasants' situation. From my POV, your "I'd make the room" comment sounds a lot like "Let them eat cake." You may have heard me mention that my shop is rather small. By small I mean less than 1.5 times the size of the average prison cell in the US. By small I mean that every inch of wall space is used up. By small I mean that ripping boards longer than 5' means rolling the table saw into middle of the shop and angling it so that I can start the cut from out in the back yard. By small I mean that my planer is out in the garage, up the stairs and on the opposite side of my house. It's on a rolling cart and other garage items need to be moved in order for it to be used. By small I mean that assembling anything larger than a drawer means setting up an assembly table in the main part the basement, much to the displeasure, but luckily also to the understanding, of SWMBO. By small I mean that my band saw is currently tucked behind the furnace because I didn't have room to build the bench for my daughter with it in the shop. By small I mean that I have already spread my jig and tool storage out into the main part of basement, again impacting SWMBO's use of the space. Let's try it this way: My neighbor's house is exactly the same as mine. He is a master woodworker compared to me. He shop was also in the same size space and he went through many of the same things that I go through until he decided to upgrade. He doubled the size of his shop by adding a $30K addition to his house. After that he had a permanent spot for his planer and jointer. (He has since moved so his jointer is not available for my use.) I'd love to do the same thing, but unfortunately my house it too close to lot line to add any size of an addition that would be cost effective. I guess I could move... So you see, it's not just as simple as "I'd make the room". When there is no room, there is no room. if you want to continue to struggle, so be it; your call. Translation: "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche" ... Now that I'm back at it, I've discovered that some of the boards are thicker than others. A rookie mistake 5 years ago, but I didn't have a planer at the time anyway. Now I do, and I think I can fix the problem as I dry fit each door and determine how much, if any needs to be planed off. ... If you at least cut the grooves/tenons from the same side, just go ahead and assemble and then take the finished doors to a pro to run them through the sander... I had that same idea last night. As I mentioned, it's been 5 years since this project was started. I need to pull out a few more frame parts, dry fit them and see if that is an option. |
|
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 3/31/2019 11:25 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
.... You were from your POV, I was from mine... Yes, POV certainly matters. So does actual physical limitations and the balance between working wood and the rest of day-to-day life. if it were me, I'd make the room... Marie Antoinette is famous for uttering the phrase "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", essentially "Let them eat cake." This is often attributed to the supposition that she had a poor understanding of the peasants' situation. From my POV, your "I'd make the room" comment sounds a lot like "Let them eat cake." .... Long diatribe elided for brevity... Nothing at all meant more than simply it is my particular POV and I'd put a shed in the back yard if needed or pick another hobby. We all have choices to make; it's your decision as to what you want more. -- |
|
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Sunday, March 31, 2019 at 3:17:35 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 3/31/2019 11:25 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ... You were from your POV, I was from mine... Yes, POV certainly matters. So does actual physical limitations and the balance between working wood and the rest of day-to-day life. if it were me, I'd make the room... Marie Antoinette is famous for uttering the phrase "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", essentially "Let them eat cake." This is often attributed to the supposition that she had a poor understanding of the peasants' situation. From my POV, your "I'd make the room" comment sounds a lot like "Let them eat cake." ... Long diatribe elided for brevity... Nothing at all meant more than simply it is my particular POV and I'd put a shed in the back yard if needed or pick another hobby. Really? How about just living without a jointer? We all have choices to make; it's your decision as to what you want more. |
|
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 14:26:15 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote: On Sunday, March 31, 2019 at 3:17:35 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote: On 3/31/2019 11:25 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ... You were from your POV, I was from mine... Yes, POV certainly matters. So does actual physical limitations and the balance between working wood and the rest of day-to-day life. if it were me, I'd make the room... Marie Antoinette is famous for uttering the phrase "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", essentially "Let them eat cake." This is often attributed to the supposition that she had a poor understanding of the peasants' situation. From my POV, your "I'd make the room" comment sounds a lot like "Let them eat cake." ... Long diatribe elided for brevity... Nothing at all meant more than simply it is my particular POV and I'd put a shed in the back yard if needed or pick another hobby. Really? How about just living without a jointer? We all have choices to make; it's your decision as to what you want more. I have a bench top one stashed away in the box since I got the Delta six inch. |
|
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 3/31/2019 4:26 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
.... Really? How about just living without a jointer? .... A) Ayup. B) Not if were going to do large-piece ww'ing, no. -- |
|
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Sunday, March 31, 2019 at 6:40:43 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 3/31/2019 4:26 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ... Really? How about just living without a jointer? ... A) Ayup. B) Not if were going to do large-piece ww'ing, no. Define large piece. Beds? Bookcases? Base cabinets? Benches? BTDT |
|
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 3/31/2019 5:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, March 31, 2019 at 6:40:43 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote: On 3/31/2019 4:26 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ... Really? How about just living without a jointer? ... A) Ayup. B) Not if were going to do large-piece ww'ing, no. Define large piece. Beds? Bookcases? Base cabinets? Benches? BTDT Happy for ya'.. -- |
|
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 3/31/2019 5:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, March 31, 2019 at 6:40:43 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote: On 3/31/2019 4:26 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ... Really? How about just living without a jointer? ... A) Ayup. B) Not if were going to do large-piece ww'ing, no. Define large piece. Beds? Bookcases? Base cabinets? Benches? BTDT Anything over what I want to do with hand tools. I use almost all roughsawn stock and reclaim a lot of old material as well. It may or more often will not start out with a surface in plane. I don't have the patience to mess with planing sleds and such gyrations as you went thru recently so I'll either have or make room or I'll do something different... I've really regretted leaving the 12" Crescent in TN and only bringing the 8" Rockwell/Delta back to KS. However, almost 50 yr ago I began w/ a little old Craftsman 6" though, that could have been made to work as a benchtop. -- |
|
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. |
|
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers. Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure. You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends. If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. |
|
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote:
On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers. Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure. You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends. If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. |
|
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote:
On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers. Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure. You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends. If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. |
|
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 4/6/2019 8:29 AM, Jack wrote:
On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer.Â* With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg Â*From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head.Â* Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planerÂ* and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers.Â* Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure.Â* You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. I am going to disagree to some extent. I can easily prevent it by slightly lifting the board as it enters and exits the planer. My snipe, when I do not do anything to prevent it, is always on two different planers and at the very end of the boards. Not in between the distance between the in feed/out feed rollers and the knives. My snipe is seldom, again on two different planers, more than 3/4". |
|
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 4/6/2019 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers. Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure. You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends. If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. FWIW I have never ever experienced snipe as badly or in the quantity/length as Jack indicated. If the cutter head pivots, and the cheaper the unit the worse the pivot, you get snipe. As the wood goes under the in feed roller the cutter head pivots higher in the front lower in the back, and NOT EVENLY. This results in the the cutter cutting deeper. I lift the work as it goes in to keep the end of the board low until the cutter begins to cut. Then on the opposite end I lift slightly again as the board is near the end of the cutting operation. Many manufacturers include a cutter head lock to help. So on my Delta 15" stationary planer I have rollers on the bed of the planer too. One on each side of the cut. The in feed pulls the work into the planer and then the work rides up on the roller. This essentially angles the work higher on the in feed end in relation to the other end of the board. Then the cutter cuts deeper, snipe, until the work travels far enough be pushed down on to the lower rollers and under the out feed roller. On the opposite end the reverse happens, but left alone through the whole process I only get/got snipe on the very ends of the boards and never over about 3/4" in length. What would help? A long in feed and out feed table that is higher on the outer ends than at the planer end. And just another observation, the lighter weight and shorter the material the less of a problem I have with snipe. On longer and or heavier boards the weight of the board has more leverage than the in feed rollers and or out feed rollers can over come. |
|
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 11:58:40 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 4/6/2019 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers. Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure. You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends. If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. FWIW I have never ever experienced snipe as badly or in the quantity/length as Jack indicated. If the cutter head pivots, and the cheaper the unit the worse the pivot, you get snipe. As the wood goes under the in feed roller the cutter head pivots higher in the front lower in the back, and NOT EVENLY. This results in the the cutter cutting deeper. I lift the work as it goes in to keep the end of the board low until the cutter begins to cut. Then on the opposite end I lift slightly again as the board is near the end of the cutting operation. Many manufacturers include a cutter head lock to help. So on my Delta 15" stationary planer I have rollers on the bed of the planer too. One on each side of the cut. The in feed pulls the work into the planer and then the work rides up on the roller. This essentially angles the work higher on the in feed end in relation to the other end of the board. Then the cutter cuts deeper, snipe, until the work travels far enough be pushed down on to the lower rollers and under the out feed roller. On the opposite end the reverse happens, but left alone through the whole process I only get/got snipe on the very ends of the boards and never over about 3/4" in length. What would help? A long in feed and out feed table that is higher on the outer ends than at the planer end. And just another observation, the lighter weight and shorter the material the less of a problem I have with snipe. On longer and or heavier boards the weight of the board has more leverage than the in feed rollers and or out feed rollers can over come. The snipe on my Wen bench top is closer to what Jack describes. Somewhere in the 2" range, both ends. Many (most?) youtube videos also use that 2" length when they discuss snipe. e.g. "If you are OK with wasting wood, plane boards that are about 4" longer than you need and cut off the snipe when you are done." I suspect that neither of your planers are the low-end planers that are often the culprits. They don't typically have rollers in the bed or heads that lock. Lucky you. ;-) |
|
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 4/6/2019 11:10 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 11:58:40 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote: On 4/6/2019 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers. Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure. You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends. If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. FWIW I have never ever experienced snipe as badly or in the quantity/length as Jack indicated. If the cutter head pivots, and the cheaper the unit the worse the pivot, you get snipe. As the wood goes under the in feed roller the cutter head pivots higher in the front lower in the back, and NOT EVENLY. This results in the the cutter cutting deeper. I lift the work as it goes in to keep the end of the board low until the cutter begins to cut. Then on the opposite end I lift slightly again as the board is near the end of the cutting operation. Many manufacturers include a cutter head lock to help. So on my Delta 15" stationary planer I have rollers on the bed of the planer too. One on each side of the cut. The in feed pulls the work into the planer and then the work rides up on the roller. This essentially angles the work higher on the in feed end in relation to the other end of the board. Then the cutter cuts deeper, snipe, until the work travels far enough be pushed down on to the lower rollers and under the out feed roller. On the opposite end the reverse happens, but left alone through the whole process I only get/got snipe on the very ends of the boards and never over about 3/4" in length. What would help? A long in feed and out feed table that is higher on the outer ends than at the planer end. And just another observation, the lighter weight and shorter the material the less of a problem I have with snipe. On longer and or heavier boards the weight of the board has more leverage than the in feed rollers and or out feed rollers can over come. The snipe on my Wen bench top is closer to what Jack describes. Somewhere in the 2" range, both ends. Many (most?) youtube videos also use that 2" length when they discuss snipe. e.g. "If you are OK with wasting wood, plane boards that are about 4" longer than you need and cut off the snipe when you are done." I suspect that neither of your planers are the low-end planers that are often the culprits. They don't typically have rollers in the bed or heads that lock. Lucky you. ;-) The first planer was a bench top. It was literally the first of its kind, a Ryobi AP-10. It was a well made bench top planer. Still both would or will snipe my boards unless I lift the opposite end from the planer when initial feeding or ending the cut. Then I pretty much see nothing. You do not have to lift much, just an inch or so. Enough to make the opposite end of the board higher than the cutter. And if making multiple passes, I mostly only do this on the last passes. |
|
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 4/6/2019 11:21 AM, Leon wrote:
On 4/6/2019 11:10 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 11:58:40 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote: On 4/6/2019 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer.Â* With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg Â*Â* From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planerÂ* and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers.Â* Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure.Â* You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends.Â* If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. FWIW I have never ever experienced snipe as badly or in the quantity/length as Jack indicated. If the cutter head pivots, and the cheaper the unit the worse the pivot, you get snipe.Â* As the wood goes under the in feed roller the cutter head pivots higher in the front lower in the back, and NOT EVENLY.Â* This results in the the cutter cutting deeper. I lift the work as it goes in to keep the end of the board low until the cutter begins to cut. Then on the opposite end I lift slightly again as the board is near the end of the cutting operation. Many manufacturers include a cutter head lock to help. So on my Delta 15" stationary planer I have rollers on the bed of the planer too.Â* One on each side of the cut. The in feed pulls the work into the planer and then the work rides up on the roller.Â* This essentially angles the work higher on the in feed end in relation to the other end of the board.Â* Then the cutter cuts deeper, snipe, until the work travels far enough be pushed down on to the lower rollers and under the out feed roller. On the opposite end the reverse happens, but left alone through the whole process I only get/got snipe on the very ends of the boards and never over about 3/4" in length. What would help?Â* A long in feed and out feed table that is higher on the outer ends than at the planer end. And just another observation, the lighter weight and shorter the material the less of a problem I have with snipe.Â* On longer and or heavier boards the weight of the board has more leverage than the in feed rollers and or out feed rollersÂ* can over come. The snipe on my Wen bench top is closer to what Jack describes. Somewhere in the 2" range, both ends. Many (most?) youtube videos also use that 2" length when they discuss snipe. e.g. "If you are OK with wasting wood, plane boards that are about 4" longer than you need and cut off the snipe when you are done." I suspect that neither of your planers are the low-end planers that are often the culprits. They don't typically have rollers in the bed or heads that lock. Lucky you. ;-) The first planer was a bench top.Â* It was literally the first of its kind, a Ryobi AP-10.Â* It was a well made bench top planer. Still both would or will snipe my boards unless I lift the opposite end from the planer when initial feeding or ending the cut.Â* Then I pretty much see nothing.Â* You do not have to lift much, just an inch or so. Enough to make the opposite end of the board higher than the cutter. And if making multiple passes, I mostly only do this on the last passes. And FWIW it is mostly a technique you learn over time. |
|
#26
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 12:21:25 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 4/6/2019 11:10 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 11:58:40 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote: On 4/6/2019 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers. Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure. You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends. If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. FWIW I have never ever experienced snipe as badly or in the quantity/length as Jack indicated. If the cutter head pivots, and the cheaper the unit the worse the pivot, you get snipe. As the wood goes under the in feed roller the cutter head pivots higher in the front lower in the back, and NOT EVENLY. This results in the the cutter cutting deeper. I lift the work as it goes in to keep the end of the board low until the cutter begins to cut. Then on the opposite end I lift slightly again as the board is near the end of the cutting operation. Many manufacturers include a cutter head lock to help. So on my Delta 15" stationary planer I have rollers on the bed of the planer too. One on each side of the cut. The in feed pulls the work into the planer and then the work rides up on the roller. This essentially angles the work higher on the in feed end in relation to the other end of the board. Then the cutter cuts deeper, snipe, until the work travels far enough be pushed down on to the lower rollers and under the out feed roller. On the opposite end the reverse happens, but left alone through the whole process I only get/got snipe on the very ends of the boards and never over about 3/4" in length. What would help? A long in feed and out feed table that is higher on the outer ends than at the planer end. And just another observation, the lighter weight and shorter the material the less of a problem I have with snipe. On longer and or heavier boards the weight of the board has more leverage than the in feed rollers and or out feed rollers can over come. The snipe on my Wen bench top is closer to what Jack describes. Somewhere in the 2" range, both ends. Many (most?) youtube videos also use that 2" length when they discuss snipe. e.g. "If you are OK with wasting wood, plane boards that are about 4" longer than you need and cut off the snipe when you are done." I suspect that neither of your planers are the low-end planers that are often the culprits. They don't typically have rollers in the bed or heads that lock. Lucky you. ;-) The first planer was a bench top. It was literally the first of its kind, a Ryobi AP-10. It was a well made bench top planer. Still both would or will snipe my boards unless I lift the opposite end from the planer when initial feeding or ending the cut. Then I pretty much see nothing. You do not have to lift much, just an inch or so. Enough to make the opposite end of the board higher than the cutter. An inch? Where are you measuring that inch? If I try to feed a board that is lifted an inch above the end of the infeed table, it wouldn't even go into the planer. And if making multiple passes, I mostly only do this on the last passes. |
|
#27
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 4/6/2019 1:47 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 12:21:25 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote: On 4/6/2019 11:10 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 11:58:40 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote: On 4/6/2019 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers. Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure. You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends. If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. FWIW I have never ever experienced snipe as badly or in the quantity/length as Jack indicated. If the cutter head pivots, and the cheaper the unit the worse the pivot, you get snipe. As the wood goes under the in feed roller the cutter head pivots higher in the front lower in the back, and NOT EVENLY. This results in the the cutter cutting deeper. I lift the work as it goes in to keep the end of the board low until the cutter begins to cut. Then on the opposite end I lift slightly again as the board is near the end of the cutting operation. Many manufacturers include a cutter head lock to help. So on my Delta 15" stationary planer I have rollers on the bed of the planer too. One on each side of the cut. The in feed pulls the work into the planer and then the work rides up on the roller. This essentially angles the work higher on the in feed end in relation to the other end of the board. Then the cutter cuts deeper, snipe, until the work travels far enough be pushed down on to the lower rollers and under the out feed roller. On the opposite end the reverse happens, but left alone through the whole process I only get/got snipe on the very ends of the boards and never over about 3/4" in length. What would help? A long in feed and out feed table that is higher on the outer ends than at the planer end. And just another observation, the lighter weight and shorter the material the less of a problem I have with snipe. On longer and or heavier boards the weight of the board has more leverage than the in feed rollers and or out feed rollers can over come. The snipe on my Wen bench top is closer to what Jack describes. Somewhere in the 2" range, both ends. Many (most?) youtube videos also use that 2" length when they discuss snipe. e.g. "If you are OK with wasting wood, plane boards that are about 4" longer than you need and cut off the snipe when you are done." I suspect that neither of your planers are the low-end planers that are often the culprits. They don't typically have rollers in the bed or heads that lock. Lucky you. ;-) The first planer was a bench top. It was literally the first of its kind, a Ryobi AP-10. It was a well made bench top planer. Still both would or will snipe my boards unless I lift the opposite end from the planer when initial feeding or ending the cut. Then I pretty much see nothing. You do not have to lift much, just an inch or so. Enough to make the opposite end of the board higher than the cutter. An inch? Where are you measuring that inch? If I try to feed a board that is lifted an inch above the end of the infeed table, it wouldn't even go into the planer. What? You lift the trailing end one inch higher than the forward end when starting the pass. As the work is about to be complete you lift the opposite end about an inch higher, or a little more, than the end still being cut. If the board is long and bows, you need to lift a little higher. If the end area, either end going in or coming out, of the board does not remain parallel to the planer bed, you get snipe. If the board bows at all, the ends are not likely to be parallel to the planer bed. And if making multiple passes, I mostly only do this on the last passes. |
|
#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 6:54:15 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 4/6/2019 1:47 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 12:21:25 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote: On 4/6/2019 11:10 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 11:58:40 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote: On 4/6/2019 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers. Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure. You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends. If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. FWIW I have never ever experienced snipe as badly or in the quantity/length as Jack indicated. If the cutter head pivots, and the cheaper the unit the worse the pivot, you get snipe. As the wood goes under the in feed roller the cutter head pivots higher in the front lower in the back, and NOT EVENLY. This results in the the cutter cutting deeper. I lift the work as it goes in to keep the end of the board low until the cutter begins to cut. Then on the opposite end I lift slightly again as the board is near the end of the cutting operation. Many manufacturers include a cutter head lock to help. So on my Delta 15" stationary planer I have rollers on the bed of the planer too. One on each side of the cut. The in feed pulls the work into the planer and then the work rides up on the roller. This essentially angles the work higher on the in feed end in relation to the other end of the board. Then the cutter cuts deeper, snipe, until the work travels far enough be pushed down on to the lower rollers and under the out feed roller. On the opposite end the reverse happens, but left alone through the whole process I only get/got snipe on the very ends of the boards and never over about 3/4" in length. What would help? A long in feed and out feed table that is higher on the outer ends than at the planer end. And just another observation, the lighter weight and shorter the material the less of a problem I have with snipe. On longer and or heavier boards the weight of the board has more leverage than the in feed rollers and or out feed rollers can over come. The snipe on my Wen bench top is closer to what Jack describes. Somewhere in the 2" range, both ends. Many (most?) youtube videos also use that 2" length when they discuss snipe. e.g. "If you are OK with wasting wood, plane boards that are about 4" longer than you need and cut off the snipe when you are done." I suspect that neither of your planers are the low-end planers that are often the culprits. They don't typically have rollers in the bed or heads that lock. Lucky you. ;-) The first planer was a bench top. It was literally the first of its kind, a Ryobi AP-10. It was a well made bench top planer. Still both would or will snipe my boards unless I lift the opposite end from the planer when initial feeding or ending the cut. Then I pretty much see nothing. You do not have to lift much, just an inch or so. Enough to make the opposite end of the board higher than the cutter. An inch? Where are you measuring that inch? If I try to feed a board that is lifted an inch above the end of the infeed table, it wouldn't even go into the planer. What? You lift the trailing end one inch higher than the forward end when starting the pass. As the work is about to be complete you lift the opposite end about an inch higher, or a little more, than the end still being cut. Got it. |
|
#29
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Sat, 6 Apr 2019 17:53:58 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 4/6/2019 1:47 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 12:21:25 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote: On 4/6/2019 11:10 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 11:58:40 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote: On 4/6/2019 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers. Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure. You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends. If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. FWIW I have never ever experienced snipe as badly or in the quantity/length as Jack indicated. If the cutter head pivots, and the cheaper the unit the worse the pivot, you get snipe. As the wood goes under the in feed roller the cutter head pivots higher in the front lower in the back, and NOT EVENLY. This results in the the cutter cutting deeper. I lift the work as it goes in to keep the end of the board low until the cutter begins to cut. Then on the opposite end I lift slightly again as the board is near the end of the cutting operation. Many manufacturers include a cutter head lock to help. So on my Delta 15" stationary planer I have rollers on the bed of the planer too. One on each side of the cut. The in feed pulls the work into the planer and then the work rides up on the roller. This essentially angles the work higher on the in feed end in relation to the other end of the board. Then the cutter cuts deeper, snipe, until the work travels far enough be pushed down on to the lower rollers and under the out feed roller. On the opposite end the reverse happens, but left alone through the whole process I only get/got snipe on the very ends of the boards and never over about 3/4" in length. What would help? A long in feed and out feed table that is higher on the outer ends than at the planer end. And just another observation, the lighter weight and shorter the material the less of a problem I have with snipe. On longer and or heavier boards the weight of the board has more leverage than the in feed rollers and or out feed rollers can over come. The snipe on my Wen bench top is closer to what Jack describes. Somewhere in the 2" range, both ends. Many (most?) youtube videos also use that 2" length when they discuss snipe. e.g. "If you are OK with wasting wood, plane boards that are about 4" longer than you need and cut off the snipe when you are done." I suspect that neither of your planers are the low-end planers that are often the culprits. They don't typically have rollers in the bed or heads that lock. Lucky you. ;-) The first planer was a bench top. It was literally the first of its kind, a Ryobi AP-10. It was a well made bench top planer. Still both would or will snipe my boards unless I lift the opposite end from the planer when initial feeding or ending the cut. Then I pretty much see nothing. You do not have to lift much, just an inch or so. Enough to make the opposite end of the board higher than the cutter. An inch? Where are you measuring that inch? If I try to feed a board that is lifted an inch above the end of the infeed table, it wouldn't even go into the planer. What? You lift the trailing end one inch higher than the forward end when starting the pass. As the work is about to be complete you lift the opposite end about an inch higher, or a little more, than the end still being cut. If the board is long and bows, you need to lift a little higher. If the end area, either end going in or coming out, of the board does not remain parallel to the planer bed, you get snipe. If the board bows at all, the ends are not likely to be parallel to the planer bed. And if making multiple passes, I mostly only do this on the last passes. The snipe on my Delta lunchbox is consistant, so board are rough cut accordingly. As far as the original post. I would use boards of the same thickness for a start and end point, overlapping the pieces to be finished. That is how I avoid snipe when waste in not available. No cross grain problems. |
|
#30
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 4/6/2019 10:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers. Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure. You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends. If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. **** you! I thought you stopped reading my posts? You just get dummer and dummer! I simply replied to Leon's post as to why snipe typically happens. Leon is one of the very few here that has a clue, and when I disagree with something he says, I usually post a response, so I can either learn something, or teach something. You on the other hand, are a moron. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. |
|
#31
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Sunday, April 7, 2019 at 9:57:36 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote:
On 4/6/2019 10:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers. Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure. You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends. If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. **** you! I thought you stopped reading my posts? You just get dummer and dummer! I simply replied to Leon's post as to why snipe typically happens. Leon is one of the very few here that has a clue, and when I disagree with something he says, I usually post a response, so I can either learn something, or teach something. You on the other hand, are a moron. A tad edgy this morning, eh? |
|
#32
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 4/6/2019 11:58 AM, Leon wrote:
On 4/6/2019 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers. Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure. You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends. If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. FWIW I have never ever experienced snipe as badly or in the quantity/length as Jack indicated. If the cutter head pivots, and the cheaper the unit the worse the pivot, you get snipe. As the wood goes under the in feed roller the cutter head pivots higher in the front lower in the back, and NOT EVENLY. This results in the the cutter cutting deeper. This is new to me. I didn't know the cutter head pivoted. To me, the cutter head should be rock solid, no pivot whatsoever? Otherwise, how do you get a level cut if the cutter is moving around on uneven surface? Not saying you're wrong, just that it is a new one to me. I lift the work as it goes in to keep the end of the board low until the cutter begins to cut. Then on the opposite end I lift slightly again as the board is near the end of the cutting operation. Yes, that is what everyone seems to do. Many manufacturers include a cutter head lock to help. So on my Delta 15" stationary planer I have rollers on the bed of the planer too. One on each side of the cut. The in feed pulls the work into the planer and then the work rides up on the roller. This essentially angles the work higher on the in feed end in relation to the other end of the board. Then the cutter cuts deeper, snipe, until the work travels far enough be pushed down on to the lower rollers and under the out feed roller. Yes that makes sense. Those rollers should be set to not lift the work up enough, if at all, to cause snipe, no? On the opposite end the reverse happens, but left alone through the whole process I only get/got snipe on the very ends of the boards and never over about 3/4" in length. 3/4" snipe would not bother me at all, unless I was planing a board already cut to length, which I try to avoid like the plague. I routinely cut off more than that w/o snipe, just to clean up the edge, square etc. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. |
|
#33
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 4/7/2019 9:31 AM, Jack wrote:
On 4/6/2019 11:58 AM, Leon wrote: On 4/6/2019 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer.Â* With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg Â* From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head.Â* Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planerÂ* and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers.Â* Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure.Â* You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends.Â* If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. FWIW I have never ever experienced snipe as badly or in the quantity/length as Jack indicated. If the cutter head pivots, and the cheaper the unit the worse the pivot, you get snipe.Â* As the wood goes under the in feed roller the cutter head pivots higher in the front lower in the back, and NOT EVENLY.Â* This results in the the cutter cutting deeper. This is new to me.Â* I didn't know the cutter head pivoted. To me, the cutter head should be rock solid, no pivot whatsoever?Â* Otherwise, how do you get a level cut if the cutter is moving around on uneven surface? Not saying you're wrong, just that it is a new one to me. I lift the work as it goes in to keep the end of the board low until the cutter begins to cut. Then on the opposite end I lift slightly again as the board is near the end of the cutting operation. Yes, that is what everyone seems to do. Many manufacturers include a cutter head lock to help. So on my Delta 15" stationary planer I have rollers on the bed of the planer too.Â* One on each side of the cut. The in feed pulls the work into the planer and then the work rides up on the roller.Â* This essentially angles the work higher on the in feed end in relation to the other end of the board.Â* Then the cutter cuts deeper, snipe, until the work travels far enough be pushed down on to the lower rollers and under the out feed roller. Yes that makes sense.Â* Those rollers should be set to not lift the work up enough, if at all, to cause snipe, no? I agree. I think it is a feature on some planers that are probably intended for lots of work with out much worry of snipe. Probably intended for a high production setting where a lot of heavy boards are being processed. On the opposite end the reverse happens, but left alone through the whole process I only get/got snipe on the very ends of the boards and never over about 3/4" in length. 3/4" snipe would not bother me at all, unless I was planing a board already cut to length, which I try to avoid like the plague. I routinely cut off more than that w/o snipe, just to clean up the edge, square etc. So yes! If I am going to plane a board I try to do it before squaring the ends. I don't have to pay attention to lifting the boards so closely. ;~) |
|
#34
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 4/7/2019 10:28 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, April 7, 2019 at 9:57:36 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/6/2019 10:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head. Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planer and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers. Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure. You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends. If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. **** you! I thought you stopped reading my posts? You just get dummer and dummer! I simply replied to Leon's post as to why snipe typically happens. Leon is one of the very few here that has a clue, and when I disagree with something he says, I usually post a response, so I can either learn something, or teach something. You on the other hand, are a moron. A tad edgy this morning, eh? I tend to get grouchier as I age... -- Jack I dont need anger management. I need people to stop ****ing me off! |
|
#35
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 3/29/2019 5:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer. With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. If you are getting bad snipe you might want to watch a couple youtube videos on just that subject. |
|
#36
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On Sunday, April 7, 2019 at 1:11:11 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 4/7/2019 9:31 AM, Jack wrote: On 4/6/2019 11:58 AM, Leon wrote: On 4/6/2019 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer.Â* With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. |
|
#37
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
DerbyDad03 writes:
On Sunday, April 7, 2019 at 1:11:11 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote: Just FYI... This is an unbiased review of the Wen planer that I have. If you start=20 at 3:15, he talks about the snipe and at about 3:40 there's a picture of a sniped board. That picture is consistent with what I get. As you can=20 see, it sure is a lot more than 3/4". 3/4" would be nice. ;-) Lifting helps somewhat, but it doesn't eliminate it all. With shortish boards, a diagonal feed helps a lot - really a lot. I need to play around some more with sacrificial runners, leading and trailing boards, etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DbyHKLOqJeUM I think you'll find that the amount of snipe is generally correlated with the distance between the infeed roller and the cutterhead. |
|
#38
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 4/8/2019 5:00 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
DerbyDad03 writes: On Sunday, April 7, 2019 at 1:11:11 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote: Just FYI... This is an unbiased review of the Wen planer that I have. If you start=20 at 3:15, he talks about the snipe and at about 3:40 there's a picture of a sniped board. That picture is consistent with what I get. As you can=20 see, it sure is a lot more than 3/4". 3/4" would be nice. ;-) Lifting helps somewhat, but it doesn't eliminate it all. With shortish boards, a diagonal feed helps a lot - really a lot. I need to play around some more with sacrificial runners, leading and trailing boards, etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DbyHKLOqJeUM I think you'll find that the amount of snipe is generally correlated with the distance between the infeed roller and the cutterhead. Actually probably between the cutter head and the out feed roller. The reason that I try to lift/pivot up the trailing end of the board so that the leading edge is pointed down/forced down against the bed of the planer until the out feed can hold the board down. |
|
#39
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
|
Planing Across The Grain, Just To Prevent Snipe
On 4/8/2019 4:08 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, April 7, 2019 at 1:11:11 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote: On 4/7/2019 9:31 AM, Jack wrote: On 4/6/2019 11:58 AM, Leon wrote: On 4/6/2019 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 9:29:08 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 4/1/2019 10:03 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/29/2019 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm still trying to learn things about my planer.... I need to plane some poplar down by no more than 1/32". However, the boards are already cut to length and have tenons on the ends. (Don't ask) I really want to avoid any snipe on these boards so I'm thinking of using the Sacrificial Board technique. Here's my idea: Cut a groove in the sacrificial board, insert the tenons in the groove, and run it all through the planer.Â* With the setup shown below, I can easily run 4 boards through at one time. (I'm only showing 2 in this example) My only concern is that the sacrificial board(s) will be planed cross grain. https://i.imgur.com/s3bxz1G.jpg Â* From a safety perspective, is there any reason I shouldn't try this? Yes, I know I could do the same thing with a sacrificial board running with the grain, but I'm sure this question will start an interesting discussion, as usual. Typically snipe happens because of the play in the cutter head.Â* Or the material is not PERFECTLY flat. I always lifted the board a bit as it entered the planerÂ* and again on the out feed side I lifted the end of the board as the material exited the planer. Typically, it happens because of the feed rollers.Â* Only one roller apples pressure at the beginning and end of the cut, creating uneven pressure.Â* You can tell because the snipe is always the length of the distance of the in feed/out feed rollers from the blades. Lifting the work piece at the beginning and end of cut tends to offset this somewhat. To eliminate the problem is difficult, and best done by allowing room to cut off the sniped ends.Â* If that is a problem, then run sacrificial boards. If that is a problem, then cutting at an angle can reduce the length of the snipe as the board will be supported a bit more through the feed rollers. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Thanks for jumping in so late and repeating everything that has already been cover in this thread. In terms of a synopsis, it's not bad. FWIW I have never ever experienced snipe as badly or in the quantity/length as Jack indicated. If the cutter head pivots, and the cheaper the unit the worse the pivot, you get snipe.Â* As the wood goes under the in feed roller the cutter head pivots higher in the front lower in the back, and NOT EVENLY.Â* This results in the the cutter cutting deeper. This is new to me.Â* I didn't know the cutter head pivoted. To me, the cutter head should be rock solid, no pivot whatsoever?Â* Otherwise, how do you get a level cut if the cutter is moving around on uneven surface? Not saying you're wrong, just that it is a new one to me. I lift the work as it goes in to keep the end of the board low until the cutter begins to cut. Then on the opposite end I lift slightly again as the board is near the end of the cutting operation. Yes, that is what everyone seems to do. Many manufacturers include a cutter head lock to help. So on my Delta 15" stationary planer I have rollers on the bed of the planer too.Â* One on each side of the cut. The in feed pulls the work into the planer and then the work rides up on the roller.Â* This essentially angles the work higher on the in feed end in relation to the other end of the board.Â* Then the cutter cuts deeper, snipe, until the work travels far enough be pushed down on to the lower rollers and under the out feed roller. Yes that makes sense.Â* Those rollers should be set to not lift the work up enough, if at all, to cause snipe, no? I agree. I think it is a feature on some planers that are probably intended for lots of work with out much worry of snipe. Probably intended for a high production setting where a lot of heavy boards are being processed. On the opposite end the reverse happens, but left alone through the whole process I only get/got snipe on the very ends of the boards and never over about 3/4" in length. 3/4" snipe would not bother me at all, unless I was planing a board already cut to length, which I try to avoid like the plague. I routinely cut off more than that w/o snipe, just to clean up the edge, square etc. So yes! If I am going to plane a board I try to do it before squaring the ends. I don't have to pay attention to lifting the boards so closely. ;~) Just FYI... This is an unbiased review of the Wen planer that I have. If you start at 3:15, he talks about the snipe and at about 3:40 there's a picture of a sniped board. That picture is consistent with what I get. As you can see, it sure is a lot more than 3/4". 3/4" would be nice. ;-) Lifting helps somewhat, but it doesn't eliminate it all. With shortish boards, a diagonal feed helps a lot - really a lot. I need to play around some more with sacrificial runners, leading and trailing boards, etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHKLOqJeUM The "short" in feed and out feed tables do little to nothing to prevent snipe on bench top planers. They hold the end of the boards up. If a planer does not have the ability to lock down the cutter head the whole cutter head assembly can rock and that is simply just one more way to introduce snipe, depending on how much slop there is in the design. So the guy reviewing the planer indicated that they put a scrap in the front and back of the work. That will work IF the person feeding the stock keeps the opposite ends of the boards lifted. The scrap pieces do nothing to prevent the work from pivoting the ends of the boards up off of the planer bed. They just help to keep the cutter head from pivoting when the actual work passes under the cutter head. Ideally boards being fed should be supported their entire length on both sides of the planer so that they do not bow under their own weight. When the boards bow the ends lift until both the in feed and out feed rollers are in contact with the work. Because I don't have supports that long on both sides I do the next best thing, I lift the ends of the boards to counter act the bow and to insure that the leading and trailing ends are flat against the planer bed as each end is only being held down by one or the other feed roller. |
| Reply |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Forum | |||
| Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards) | Woodworking | |||
| Planing the end grain of a pencil sized tree core | Woodworking | |||
| Snipe ... Or snipe no more. | Woodworking | |||
| strange scratches/nicks from hand planing end grain? | Woodworking | |||
| Planing against the grain? | Woodworking | |||
Linear Mode
