Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
I went to a crafts festival and saw some end grain cutting boards. One of
them was made from Douglas fir, which I just happen to have lying around. Extra boards left over for the bed I built for my daughter. https://i.imgur.com/GTDm9VG.jpg So I said to myself, "Christmas gifts!" I went on YouTube, looked at the process and decided it's time to buy a planer. Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread: https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/art...gh-the-planer/ Now I'm shaking in my boots. However, I also read about techniques like adding runners to make it safer. If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a power planer on a somewhat advanced/dangerous project. Obviously I would practice on some flat boards to get a feel for the machine before I fed something that could hurt me badly into it, but I'd like some encouragement/tips (or warnings/"Don't do it!") from you guys before I proceed. Thanks! |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
DerbyDad03 wrote:
I went to a crafts festival and saw some end grain cutting boards. One of them was made from Douglas fir, which I just happen to have lying around. Extra boards left over for the bed I built for my daughter. https://i.imgur.com/GTDm9VG.jpg So I said to myself, "Christmas gifts!" I went on YouTube, looked at the process and decided it's time to buy a planer. Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread: https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/art...gh-the-planer/ Now I'm shaking in my boots. However, I also read about techniques like adding runners to make it safer. If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a power planer on a somewhat advanced/dangerous project. Obviously I would practice on some flat boards to get a feel for the machine before I fed something that could hurt me badly into it, but I'd like some encouragement/tips (or warnings/"Don't do it!") from you guys before I proceed. Thanks! "Don't do it!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prt3HMq_k1g |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On 10/13/2018 11:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
.... If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a power planer ... As the posters in the link said, the key is definitely to only take hair-thin shavings to avoid major tearout. The problem with more severe issues as the kickback and such is more likely related to more gross misfeed like an end gets kicked up or a glueline breaks or the like. On conventional planers with feedbed rollers, there can be a tilt caused by the leading edge moving over and if are set too high that can be enough to cause the knives to catch front edge too deeply to cut and given the endgrain is up, the side edge facing the knives is harder to slice than when it's endgrain in normal orientation that will split along the length more easily. A full-length sled and a sacrificial trailing piece makes it do-able with care but it's not a "learning" exercise imo, no... It's the cat's meow job for the surface planer or rig up a custom jig to use the router instead for starters... -- |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 11:39:51 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread: https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/art...gh-the-planer/ I wouldn't use a planer. I'd probably use a router, for initial flattening.. A cutting board is not that large, that a sharp hand plane and/or a belt sander would be sufficient, before finish sanding. Chain sawed slabs, then disk sanded with 32 grit.... After belt sanding (80, 120 and 320 grit), palm sanding was sufficient for these end grain side tables. A few touch-up hand sanding spots to make the grain show clearly over the whole surface. Time consuming, but worth it, especially with nice grain detail. https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/ I've made at least half a dozen of these sorts of tables. I suppose the surfacing of these tops are similar to surfacing cutting boards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/ I think these, above, are the only end grain work I have experience with. I've never made a cutting board. Cutting boards don't need to be absolutely perfectly flat, anyway, IMO. Sonny |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 9:39:51 AM UTC-7, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I went to a crafts festival and saw some end grain cutting boards. So I said to myself, "Christmas gifts!" I went on YouTube, looked at the process and decided it's time to buy a planer. Drum sander (or belt sander) would do it easier. Drop the raw item on the deck and run a flooring machine over it a few times, then take the machine back to the rental place. |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On 10/13/2018 2:04 PM, dpb wrote:
On 10/13/2018 11:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ... If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a power planer ... As the posters in the link said, the key is definitely to only take hair-thin shavings to avoid major tearout. The problem with more severe issues as the kickback and such is more likely related to more gross misfeed like an end gets kicked up or a glueline breaks or the like. On conventional planers with feedbed rollers, there can be a tilt caused by the leading edge moving over and if are set too high that can be enough to cause the knives to catch front edge too deeply to cut and given the endgrain is up, the side edge facing the knives is harder to slice than when it's endgrain in normal orientation that will split along the length more easily. A full-length sled and a sacrificial trailing piece makes it do-able with care but it's not a "learning" exercise imo, no... It's the cat's meow job for the surface planer or rig up a custom jig to use the router instead for starters... -- I've found that using a sacrificial leading and trailing pieces works out well for both the jointing and planing even with hard maple. I've had to keep my boards down to 12" and under because of the size of my equipment but doing it with the sacrificial pieces and keeping the cuts super-light make it pretty easy and safe. No more than light sanding is needed before oiling. |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 1:04:47 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 10/13/2018 11:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ... If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a power planer ... As the posters in the link said, the key is definitely to only take hair-thin shavings to avoid major tearout. The problem with more severe issues as the kickback and such is more likely related to more gross misfeed like an end gets kicked up or a glueline breaks or the like. On conventional planers with feedbed rollers, there can be a tilt caused by the leading edge moving over and if are set too high that can be enough to cause the knives to catch front edge too deeply to cut and given the endgrain is up, the side edge facing the knives is harder to slice than when it's endgrain in normal orientation that will split along the length more easily. A full-length sled and a sacrificial trailing piece makes it do-able with care but it's not a "learning" exercise imo, no... It's the cat's meow job for the surface planer or rig up a custom jig to use the router instead for starters... -- I've made several end grain cutting boards and I agree that the key is to take very thin cuttings on each pass. Patience is the key. I would also say to let the glue-ups cure for a day or more to make sure they don't break under stress. There's no doubt that a surface sander is the better option. |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On 10/13/18 12:49 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 9:39:51 AM UTC-7, DerbyDad03 wrote: I went to a crafts festival and saw some end grain cutting boards. So I said to myself, "Christmas gifts!" I went on YouTube, looked at the process and decided it's time to buy a planer. Drum sander (or belt sander) would do it easier. Drop the raw item on the deck and run a flooring machine over it a few times, then take the machine back to the rental place. I'd use a planer with the sacrificial boards if I didn't have a DS, but you'd need to clean you the surface first with a belt sander before having at it. Since I do have a DS. I get the surfaces flat with 36 grit, then work up to 180 before finishing with a RO sander. -BR |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On 10/13/2018 12:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I went to a crafts festival and saw some end grain cutting boards. One of them was made from Douglas fir, which I just happen to have lying around. Extra boards left over for the bed I built for my daughter. https://i.imgur.com/GTDm9VG.jpg So I said to myself, "Christmas gifts!" I went on YouTube, looked at the process and decided it's time to buy a planer. Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread: https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/art...gh-the-planer/ Now I'm shaking in my boots. However, I also read about techniques like adding runners to make it safer. If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a power planer on a somewhat advanced/dangerous project. Obviously I would practice on some flat boards to get a feel for the machine before I fed something that could hurt me badly into it, but I'd like some encouragement/tips (or warnings/"Don't do it!") from you guys before I proceed. I've not made end grain cutting boards, but, my recommendation is not to unless you get a segmented spiral cutter head. If buying a planer, (or jointer) I highly recommend getting a segmented, spiral cutter head anyway. These things cut knots, wild grain and so on without a stutter. The cutter heads are a little more money, but well worth it. I would still use at least a leading edge made of long grain to get the cut started, and possibly a trailing edge as well for tear out, but that could be cut off later. The leading edge is where kickback might come from and that could be bad for your and the planer. The advantages of spiral segmented cutter are many, so do yourself a favor if buying a planer and go for the better tool here. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. http://jbstein.com |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On 10/13/2018 2:14 PM, John McGaw wrote:
On 10/13/2018 2:04 PM, dpb wrote: On 10/13/2018 11:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ... If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a power planer ... As the posters in the link said, the key is definitely to only take hair-thin shavings to avoid major tearout. The problem with more severe issues as the kickback and such is more likely related to more gross misfeed like an end gets kicked up or a glueline breaks or the like. On conventional planers with feedbed rollers, there can be a tilt caused by the leading edge moving over and if are set too high that can be enough to cause the knives to catch front edge too deeply to cut and given the endgrain is up, the side edge facing the knives is harder to slice than when it's endgrain in normal orientation that will split along the length more easily. A full-length sled and a sacrificial trailing piece makes it do-able with care but it's not a "learning" exercise imo, no... It's the cat's meow job for the surface planer or rig up a custom jig to use the router instead for starters... -- I've found that using a sacrificial leading and trailing pieces works out well for both the jointing and planing even with hard maple. I've had to keep my boards down to 12" and under because of the size of my equipment but doing it with the sacrificial pieces and keeping the cuts super-light make it pretty easy and safe. No more than light sanding is needed before oiling. I don't disagree it's doable and can be reasonably safe -- my comment was that I don't believe it's the very first use of a planer an individual ought to make without some "time in grade" to really become familiar with the particular machine in question and comfortable in its idiosyncracies... I agree wholeheartedly that the way to make it the "most safe" is with leading/trailing edges; at worst they're tapered somewhat but still the end grain with the workpiece oversized; at best they are sacrificial sections of long grain; the problem there is one has to use something more than simply a butt glue joint for strength to be sure there isn't a failure there so it's quite a lot of extra work to do that. -- |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On Sunday, October 14, 2018 at 12:48:59 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 10/13/2018 2:14 PM, John McGaw wrote: On 10/13/2018 2:04 PM, dpb wrote: On 10/13/2018 11:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ... If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a power planer ... As the posters in the link said, the key is definitely to only take hair-thin shavings to avoid major tearout. The problem with more severe issues as the kickback and such is more likely related to more gross misfeed like an end gets kicked up or a glueline breaks or the like. On conventional planers with feedbed rollers, there can be a tilt caused by the leading edge moving over and if are set too high that can be enough to cause the knives to catch front edge too deeply to cut and given the endgrain is up, the side edge facing the knives is harder to slice than when it's endgrain in normal orientation that will split along the length more easily. A full-length sled and a sacrificial trailing piece makes it do-able with care but it's not a "learning" exercise imo, no... It's the cat's meow job for the surface planer or rig up a custom jig to use the router instead for starters... -- I've found that using a sacrificial leading and trailing pieces works out well for both the jointing and planing even with hard maple. I've had to keep my boards down to 12" and under because of the size of my equipment but doing it with the sacrificial pieces and keeping the cuts super-light make it pretty easy and safe. No more than light sanding is needed before oiling. I don't disagree it's doable and can be reasonably safe -- my comment was that I don't believe it's the very first use of a planer an individual ought to make without some "time in grade" to really become familiar with the particular machine in question and comfortable in its idiosyncracies... I agree wholeheartedly that the way to make it the "most safe" is with leading/trailing edges; at worst they're tapered somewhat but still the end grain with the workpiece oversized; at best they are sacrificial sections of long grain; the problem there is one has to use something more than simply a butt glue joint for strength to be sure there isn't a failure there so it's quite a lot of extra work to do that. -- "the problem there is one has to use something more than simply a butt glue joint for strength to be sure there isn't a failure there so it's quite a lot of extra work to do that." What about making the workpiece extra long, then gluing and screwing the leading and trailing end pieces? The piece would be long enough that once the screws are removed, the holes in the actual cutting board would be cut off also. If using screws is a really bad idea because of the still-present danger of the board breaking apart, I'd accept that answer wholeheartedly. |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 1:07:18 PM UTC-4, Spalted Walt wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote: I went to a crafts festival and saw some end grain cutting boards. One of them was made from Douglas fir, which I just happen to have lying around. Extra boards left over for the bed I built for my daughter. https://i.imgur.com/GTDm9VG.jpg So I said to myself, "Christmas gifts!" I went on YouTube, looked at the process and decided it's time to buy a planer. Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread: https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/art...gh-the-planer/ Now I'm shaking in my boots. However, I also read about techniques like adding runners to make it safer. If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a power planer on a somewhat advanced/dangerous project. Obviously I would practice on some flat boards to get a feel for the machine before I fed something that could hurt me badly into it, but I'd like some encouragement/tips (or warnings/"Don't do it!") from you guys before I proceed. Thanks! "Don't do it!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prt3HMq_k1g I had to chuckle, not at the video that you supplied, but at the one that automatically followed it. As soon as the one you linked to ended, the next one was Tom Silva and Kevin OConnor (Ask This Old House) making a end grain cutting board by sending it through the planer. They had added leading and trailing boards to "prevent chipping", per Tom. Tom also said "I could sand it but that's going to take a lot of work" and (as to the planer) "only taking a little bit off each time". He also stood almost directly in line with the in feed end of the planer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O97enrnp0MY Here's a video of a guy using every precaution available, explaining each one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2LSj4RhAs |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On 10/14/2018 7:27 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
.... "the problem there is one has to use something more than simply a butt glue joint for strength to be sure there isn't a failure there so it's quite a lot of extra work to do that." What about making the workpiece extra long, then gluing and screwing the leading and trailing end pieces? The piece would be long enough that once the screws are removed, the holes in the actual cutting board would be cut off also. If using screws is a really bad idea because of the still-present danger of the board breaking apart, I'd accept that answer wholeheartedly. I wouldn't put much faith in the glue part of the joint so it's counting on the screws to do the job. _Probably_ would be just fine but personally I'd worry about the "what if" enough I'd be awfully reluctant, personally. If I were to go that route, I think I'd just go ahead and run a 1/4" or 3/8" dado and use a spline as the joint...it's more work but not a terrible, terrible lot. I really do think the taper is enough, if you're careful-careful to not accidentally get too deep a cut on that first pass... -- |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On Sunday, October 14, 2018 at 10:00:22 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 10/14/2018 7:27 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ... "the problem there is one has to use something more than simply a butt glue joint for strength to be sure there isn't a failure there so it's quite a lot of extra work to do that." What about making the workpiece extra long, then gluing and screwing the leading and trailing end pieces? The piece would be long enough that once the screws are removed, the holes in the actual cutting board would be cut off also. If using screws is a really bad idea because of the still-present danger of the board breaking apart, I'd accept that answer wholeheartedly. I wouldn't put much faith in the glue part of the joint so it's counting on the screws to do the job. _Probably_ would be just fine but personally I'd worry about the "what if" enough I'd be awfully reluctant, personally. If I were to go that route, I think I'd just go ahead and run a 1/4" or 3/8" dado and use a spline as the joint...it's more work but not a terrible, terrible lot. I really do think the taper is enough, if you're careful-careful to not accidentally get too deep a cut on that first pass... -- This guy shows how he's run thousands of end grain cutting boards safely through his planer(s), right after he says that it's dangerous if you don't follow his suggestions and that he's not "telling" anyone to do it. We must all make our own decisions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2LSj4RhAs |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On 10/14/2018 9:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
.... This guy shows how he's run thousands of end grain cutting boards safely through his planer(s), right after he says that it's dangerous if you don't follow his suggestions and that he's not "telling" anyone to do it. We must all make our own decisions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2LSj4RhAs NB: He's _NOT_ using the lunchbox planer for this... -- |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
DerbyDad03 wrote:
I went to a crafts festival and saw some end grain cutting boards. One of them was made from Douglas fir, which I just happen to have lying around. Extra boards left over for the bed I built for my daughter. https://i.imgur.com/GTDm9VG.jpg So I said to myself, "Christmas gifts!" I went on YouTube, looked at the process and decided it's time to buy a planer. Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread: https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/art...gh-the-planer/ Now I'm shaking in my boots. However, I also read about techniques like adding runners to make it safer. If I decide to move forward, it seems like I will be learning to use a power planer on a somewhat advanced/dangerous project. Obviously I would practice on some flat boards to get a feel for the machine before I fed something that could hurt me badly into it, but I'd like some encouragement/tips (or warnings/"Don't do it!") from you guys before I proceed. Thanks! I'm a novice. I've been building garage shelving the hard way by meticulously edge gluing 1"x6"x8' pine boards to practice technique. I'm preparing to edge glue some 2"x12"x4' douglas fir for heavy-duty rolling shelves (previous shelves hung on wall brackets). I bought some cheap dimensional douglas fir that was already sufficiently dry but cupped, unlike the pine boards which were flat enough. But I lack a planer and am not particularly interested in buying one. (The point of the shelving is to help reduce clutter and to get everything off the floor. Adding bulky tools isn't helping things.) I tried hand planing with a jack-plane but there are too many knots, and I've decided I don't want to deal with 24' of those (nor pay for wood that can be easily handtooled, which would be the smart thing). I do have a router and have already built a sled using an 8' MDF trim board (cut in half), two angle irons (already had on hand), a 2'x4' particle board backer, some scrap wood, and a 1 1/2" cleaning router bit. Hopefully I'll get a chance to start leveling the boards this weekend. Regarding kickback, I would just say to hope for the best and *expect* the worst. I'm extremely cautious by nature, but grew up working summers on my dad's construction crew where it was normal to shoot nail guns at people when they're on 20'-high scaffolding for laughs. I always go slow but appreciate that people can be too risk averse. (Or maybe the lesson was just that people who are too risk adverse get shot at with nail guns when they're on 20'-high scaffolding.) I've also read advice that free-handing a cleaning router bit can be dangerous too, especially for a bit size 2" or wider. I don't (and shouldn't) expect the sled to do much to minimize that risk. I think the most important thing is to expect the unexpected, and don't get lazy about it. You already have good reason to expect the board to shatter or become a projectile, so prepare accordingly. Advice seems mixed, so you have plausible deniability about knowing how stupid it was. |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 9:01:05 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 10/14/2018 9:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ... This guy shows how he's run thousands of end grain cutting boards safely through his planer(s), right after he says that it's dangerous if you don't follow his suggestions and that he's not "telling" anyone to do it. We must all make our own decisions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2LSj4RhAs NB: He's _NOT_ using the lunchbox planer for this... -- If you mean that he is not using the Makita, then I beg to differ. At 0:58 he states that the Makita was in use for 3 years before he bought the Jet. I assume that he meant that he was planing end grain cutting boards with it. Now, we all know that making assumptions can be risky business, so let's fast forward to 10:35 and 11:45 when he actually does use the Makita to plane end grain. |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On 10/15/2018 4:37 PM, William Ahern wrote:
I'm a novice. I've been building garage shelving the hard way by meticulously edge gluing 1"x6"x8' pine boards to practice technique. I'm preparing to edge glue some 2"x12"x4' douglas fir for heavy-duty rolling shelves (previous shelves hung on wall brackets). I bought some cheap dimensional douglas fir that was already sufficiently dry but cupped, unlike the pine boards which were flat enough. But I lack a planer and am not particularly interested in buying one. (The point of the shelving is to help reduce clutter and to get everything off the floor. Adding bulky tools isn't helping things.) I tried hand planing with a jack-plane but there are too many knots, and I've decided I don't want to deal with 24' of those (nor pay for wood that can be easily handtooled, which would be the smart thing). I'm not a novice and I would not recommend edge gluing cupped 2x12's for shelving. If you want 22 1/2" shelves, I would recommend plywood. If you really wish to use 2x lumber, stick with 2x6 or less for the glue ups. When choosing the lumber, look for quarter sawn or rift cut boards to reduce/eliminate cupping. Even if you owned a planer, gluing up flat sawn 2x12's, then planing them flat, will likely just result in thinner cupped shelves. Wood cups because of grain direction. Planing it doesn't change that. In fact, flat sawn lumber can be re-sawn into quarter sawn (the edges of flat sawn is quarter sawn) then glued up to eliminate warpage. A planer makes this a relatively easy task. -- Jack Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. http://jbstein.c I do have a router and have already built a sled using an 8' MDF trim board (cut in half), two angle irons (already had on hand), a 2'x4' particle board backer, some scrap wood, and a 1 1/2" cleaning router bit. Hopefully I'll get a chance to start leveling the boards this weekend. Regarding kickback, I would just say to hope for the best and *expect* the worst. I'm extremely cautious by nature, but grew up working summers on my dad's construction crew where it was normal to shoot nail guns at people when they're on 20'-high scaffolding for laughs. I always go slow but appreciate that people can be too risk averse. (Or maybe the lesson was just that people who are too risk adverse get shot at with nail guns when they're on 20'-high scaffolding.) I've also read advice that free-handing a cleaning router bit can be dangerous too, especially for a bit size 2" or wider. I don't (and shouldn't) expect the sled to do much to minimize that risk. I think the most important thing is to expect the unexpected, and don't get lazy about it. You already have good reason to expect the board to shatter or become a projectile, so prepare accordingly. Advice seems mixed, so you have plausible deniability about knowing how stupid it was. om |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:21:37 -0400, Jack wrote:
On 10/15/2018 4:37 PM, William Ahern wrote: I'm a novice. I've been building garage shelving the hard way by meticulously edge gluing 1"x6"x8' pine boards to practice technique. I'm preparing to edge glue some 2"x12"x4' douglas fir for heavy-duty rolling shelves (previous shelves hung on wall brackets). I bought some cheap dimensional douglas fir that was already sufficiently dry but cupped, unlike the pine boards which were flat enough. But I lack a planer and am not particularly interested in buying one. (The point of the shelving is to help reduce clutter and to get everything off the floor. Adding bulky tools isn't helping things.) I tried hand planing with a jack-plane but there are too many knots, and I've decided I don't want to deal with 24' of those (nor pay for wood that can be easily handtooled, which would be the smart thing). I'm not a novice and I would not recommend edge gluing cupped 2x12's for shelving. If you want 22 1/2" shelves, I would recommend plywood. If you really wish to use 2x lumber, stick with 2x6 or less for the glue ups. When choosing the lumber, look for quarter sawn or rift cut boards to reduce/eliminate cupping. Even if you owned a planer, gluing up flat sawn 2x12's, then planing them flat, will likely just result in thinner cupped shelves. Wood cups because of grain direction. Planing it doesn't change that. In fact, flat sawn lumber can be re-sawn into quarter sawn (the edges of flat sawn is quarter sawn) then glued up to eliminate warpage. A planer makes this a relatively easy task. I'm with you on plywood. If it needs to be stronger/firmer than 3/4" ply allows, frame it in 1x or 2x pine (on edge, preferably). Dadoing (ploughing) the edges of the frame to fit the plywood makes for some very sturdy shelving with solid edges that will take a beating. |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
Sonny on Sat, 13 Oct 2018 11:23:11 -0700 (PDT)
typed in rec.woodworking the following: On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 11:39:51 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote: Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread: https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/art...gh-the-planer/ I wouldn't use a planer. I'd probably use a router, for initial flattening. A cutting board is not that large, that a sharp hand plane and/or a belt sander would be sufficient, before finish sanding. If memory serves, weren't the "little" block planes developed in part for smoothing butcher blocks? Chain sawed slabs, then disk sanded with 32 grit.... After belt sanding (80, 120 and 320 grit), palm sanding was sufficient for these end grain side tables. A few touch-up hand sanding spots to make the grain show clearly over the whole surface. Time consuming, but worth it, especially with nice grain detail. https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/ I've made at least half a dozen of these sorts of tables. I suppose the surfacing of these tops are similar to surfacing cutting boards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/ I think these, above, are the only end grain work I have experience with. I've never made a cutting board. Cutting boards don't need to be absolutely perfectly flat, anyway, IMO. I'd say that cutting boards need to be flat "enough" that stuff doesn't get caught by any holes or high spots. tschus pyotr -- pyotr filipivich Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing? |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
pyotr filipivich writes:
Sonny on Sat, 13 Oct 2018 11:23:11 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following: On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 11:39:51 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote: Then I stumbled across this Wood Whisperer thread: https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/art...gh-the-planer/ I wouldn't use a planer. I'd probably use a router, for initial flattening. A cutting board is not that large, that a sharp hand plane and/or a belt sander would be sufficient, before finish sanding. If memory serves, weren't the "little" block planes developed in part for smoothing butcher blocks? It's not the size of the plane that matters so much as the angle of the blade to the wood. A very low angle works better on end-grain than the standard angle (a higher angle than standard works better on gnarly grain). A low-angle jack would be the go-to plane for smoothing a butcher block, IMO. |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 9:21:43 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote:
On 10/15/2018 4:37 PM, William Ahern wrote: I'm a novice. I've been building garage shelving the hard way by meticulously edge gluing 1"x6"x8' pine boards to practice technique. I'm preparing to edge glue some 2"x12"x4' douglas fir for heavy-duty rolling shelves (previous shelves hung on wall brackets). I bought some cheap dimensional douglas fir that was already sufficiently dry but cupped, unlike the pine boards which were flat enough. But I lack a planer and am not particularly interested in buying one. (The point of the shelving is to help reduce clutter and to get everything off the floor. Adding bulky tools isn't helping things.) I tried hand planing with a jack-plane but there are too many knots, and I've decided I don't want to deal with 24' of those (nor pay for wood that can be easily handtooled, which would be the smart thing). I'm not a novice and I would not recommend edge gluing cupped 2x12's for shelving. If you want 22 1/2" shelves, I would recommend plywood. If you really wish to use 2x lumber, stick with 2x6 or less for the glue ups. When choosing the lumber, look for quarter sawn or rift cut boards to reduce/eliminate cupping. Did someone mention plywood shelves? The back shelves are 20" deep to the stud faces, the side ones are 16". The loft is 36" deep. 20" works well for a shelf and allows you to rip cleats from the cutoffs. Very little waste. https://i.imgur.com/0v44CJq.jpg I built the loft about 30 years, but the shelves are only a few months old. I built them to replace a hodge-podge of individual shelving units, including an old particle board entertainment center. Can you say fugly? They work so well I'm thinking of going out to get more stuff just so I can build some more shelves. ;-) |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
DerbyDad03 on Tue, 16 Oct 2018 15:03:58 -0700
(PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following: On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 9:21:43 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote: On 10/15/2018 4:37 PM, William Ahern wrote: I'm a novice. I've been building garage shelving the hard way by meticulously edge gluing 1"x6"x8' pine boards to practice technique. I'm preparing to edge glue some 2"x12"x4' douglas fir for heavy-duty rolling shelves (previous shelves hung on wall brackets). I bought some cheap dimensional douglas fir that was already sufficiently dry but cupped, unlike the pine boards which were flat enough. But I lack a planer and am not particularly interested in buying one. (The point of the shelving is to help reduce clutter and to get everything off the floor. Adding bulky tools isn't helping things.) I tried hand planing with a jack-plane but there are too many knots, and I've decided I don't want to deal with 24' of those (nor pay for wood that can be easily handtooled, which would be the smart thing). I'm not a novice and I would not recommend edge gluing cupped 2x12's for shelving. If you want 22 1/2" shelves, I would recommend plywood. If you really wish to use 2x lumber, stick with 2x6 or less for the glue ups. When choosing the lumber, look for quarter sawn or rift cut boards to reduce/eliminate cupping. Did someone mention plywood shelves? The back shelves are 20" deep to the stud faces, the side ones are 16". The loft is 36" deep. 20" works well for a shelf and allows you to rip cleats from the cutoffs. Very little waste. https://i.imgur.com/0v44CJq.jpg I built the loft about 30 years, but the shelves are only a few months old. I built them to replace a hodge-podge of individual shelving units, including an old particle board entertainment center. Can you say fugly? They work so well I'm thinking of going out to get more stuff just so I can build some more shelves. ;-) "Stuff expands to fill the amount of space available." Making more shelves, just increases the amount of space available. I have stopped "shifting" stuff around in the house to "make room", for it seems she just fills it all back up anyway. Sigh. pyotr -- pyotr filipivich Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing? |
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Planing End Grain (Cutting Boards)
Jack wrote:
On 10/15/2018 4:37 PM, William Ahern wrote: I'm a novice. I've been building garage shelving the hard way by meticulously edge gluing 1"x6"x8' pine boards to practice technique. I'm preparing to edge glue some 2"x12"x4' douglas fir for heavy-duty rolling shelves (previous shelves hung on wall brackets). I bought some cheap dimensional douglas fir that was already sufficiently dry but cupped, unlike the pine boards which were flat enough. But I lack a planer and am not particularly interested in buying one. (The point of the shelving is to help reduce clutter and to get everything off the floor. Adding bulky tools isn't helping things.) I tried hand planing with a jack-plane but there are too many knots, and I've decided I don't want to deal with 24' of those (nor pay for wood that can be easily handtooled, which would be the smart thing). I'm not a novice and I would not recommend edge gluing cupped 2x12's for shelving. If you want 22 1/2" shelves, I would recommend plywood. If you really wish to use 2x lumber, stick with 2x6 or less for the glue ups. When choosing the lumber, look for quarter sawn or rift cut boards to reduce/eliminate cupping. Even if you owned a planer, gluing up flat sawn 2x12's, then planing them flat, will likely just result in thinner cupped shelves. Wood cups because of grain direction. Planing it doesn't change that. In fact, flat sawn lumber can be re-sawn into quarter sawn (the edges of flat sawn is quarter sawn) then glued up to eliminate warpage. A planer makes this a relatively easy task. I knew going in that working with such wide, construction grade boards, could be problematic. It just seemed more expedient as it theoretically would require half the set ups and glue ups. (Famous last words.) And I did try to find good boards. The cupping is minimal on most, and my meter showed 13% moisture IIRC. If the first shelf didn't work well I'm willing to rip the boards. And in any event I'm willing to learn the hard way. Some cupping or cracking is tolerable considering they're for garage storage. (Though maybe the design wouldn't tolerate it well?) What I'm aiming for is something like this http://lh6.ggpht.com/-7tYSKktV720/Tf...jpg?imgmax=320 I like the simplicity but which can still carry significant weight across a long span (for stuff too heavy and bulky to put on the wall shelving), which is one reason why I'm not going the sensible route of plywood and framing. I also recently began to notice 2x8" and 2x12" pine boards used for commercial table tops, including a nice oil finished 8' freestanding lunch counter at a deli using two ~2.5x12" douglas fir boards. So I figured I'd have a go of it. If I had a planer I wouldn't hesitate to use 6" boards. I'd like to have a planer. I'm just trying to resist buying more tools, especially bulky ones. If I rip the boards and then flatten them with the router sled I worry I couldn't repeat the thickness without alot of trial+error, causing headaches with the edge glue up. After 24' of 1x24" shelving I've only just begun to figure out how to use cauls properly (after ditching dowels). Maybe that's just my inexperience making for bad priorities. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Planing the end grain of a pencil sized tree core | Woodworking | |||
grain filler to dark on end grain | Woodworking | |||
grain filler to dark on end grain | Woodworking | |||
strange scratches/nicks from hand planing end grain? | Woodworking | |||
End Grain - Side Grain Turners Ratio in this Group? | Woodturning |