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  #11   Report Post  
Old January 11th 19, 06:26 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Grizzly jointers

dpb wrote:

I'd not draw any firm conclusions from any of it...about what
you'd expect from a low-cost import
distributor--"cheap/inexpensive, but precision and high attention
to detail ain't what you're really expecting".


But, the way I understand it, they have dominated this part of
the market with their lower "price/performance" ratio to the
point that few wish to compete with them in it. I think Baileigh
is going to try, but I don't see them advertise like Grizzly.
Could be I'm not paying attention.

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Old January 11th 19, 01:53 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Grizzly jointers

On 1/10/2019 11:26 PM, Bill wrote:
dpb wrote:

I'd not draw any firm conclusions from any of it...about what you'd
expect from a low-cost import distributor--"cheap/inexpensive, but
precision and high attention to detail ain't what you're really
expecting".


But, the way I understand it, they have dominated this part of the
market with their lower "price/performance" ratio to the point that few
wish to compete with them in it. I think Baileigh is going to try, but I
don't see them advertise like Grizzly. Could be I'm not paying attention.


While I've never had a Grizzly and actually have never seen one
firsthand, apparently they are the most consistent of the imports and
what isn't right they do fix.

The cost pressures have driven the US makers overseas as well and Delta
is only a shadow of its former self and may well be following Sears'
business model the rate they're going.

One of the Grizzly machines won both Best Overall and Best Value in last
month's Fine WW review of segmented-head 8" jointers...

Just that if price sensitivity is a major driver, there just can't be
much time spent on the details like the data accuracy of web pages--it
would be too time-consuming and take too many manhours that would
inevitably add.

--

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Old January 11th 19, 04:33 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Grizzly jointers

On 1/10/2019 2:16 PM, Bill wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 1/9/2019 11:18 PM, Bill wrote:
Why would someone buy this *new* jointer at 365 pounds, when they could
have the G0490 for the same price, at 200 pounds more. Because they had
a weak back? Makes me wonder whether the days of the G0490 are
numbered..

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Griz...ile-Base/G0857


You'd need to be a moron to buy either when you can get one with a
spiral cutter head for a few dollars more. After owning both types, I
would never buy, on purpose, a planer or jointer w/o a segmented
spiral cutter head. The difference is night and day, but the cost, in
this case, is just $30 more.


Point well-taken, but of course you meant to type "$300" more.


No, I meant $30. Surprised me as well, but I got the numbers directly
from the page you listed above, just scroll down a little:

Model: G0857 $1,295.00
Item# G0656X $1,325.00

Since we are on this topic, IIRC, the "regular" carbide cutters are not
particularly cheap. But I know that in the metalworking world, there
are cutters available (on E-bay) at much less cost. Are such "less
costly" cutters available for jointers too, and can anyone report on
their performance?


Not cheap, Grizz sells 10 packs for $40 and you would need 4 packs,
around $160. The good news is they are carbide, last a REALLY long
time, and since they have four sides you simply rotate them if they get
dull. A typical home work shop may never need to replace them, and a
commercial shop can afford to replace them. More good news is setting
the cutters is automatic, no adjustments needed. They simply screw in
and your done.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com
  #14   Report Post  
Old January 11th 19, 04:50 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 423
Default Grizzly jointers

On 1/11/2019 9:33 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/10/2019 2:16 PM, Bill wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 1/9/2019 11:18 PM, Bill wrote:
Why would someone buy this *new* jointer at 365 pounds, when they could
have the G0490 for the same price, at 200 pounds more. Because they had
a weak back?* Makes me wonder whether the days of the G0490 are
numbered..

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Griz...ile-Base/G0857



You'd need to be a moron to buy either when you can get one with a
spiral cutter head for a few dollars more.* After owning both types, I
would never buy, on purpose, a planer or jointer w/o a segmented
spiral cutter head. The difference is night and day, but the cost, in
this case, is just $30 more.


Point well-taken, but of course you meant to type "$300" more.


No, I meant $30.* Surprised me as well, but I got the numbers directly
from the page you listed above, just scroll down a little:

Model: G0857* $1,295.00
Item# G0656X* $1,325.00

....

"A" jointer, yes, but not the same jointer with the spiral head
option...the G0656X is dovetail ways, not parallelogram design.

If you also look more carefully, that's a special sale price
right now; the normal list is more like $1700.

Now, I personally don't care a whit about the two styles having had an
old 8" Delta dating from the Rockwell-Delta days and the tables are
still coplanar after some 60+ years so the scare tactics on how the
dovetails wear and drop the tables just doesn't live up to the hype for
me...

But, "Yes, Virginia", you _could_ get one for essentially the same price
right now it appears.

--dpb
  #15   Report Post  
Old January 12th 19, 02:24 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,137
Default Grizzly jointers

On 1/11/2019 10:50 AM, dpb wrote:
On 1/11/2019 9:33 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/10/2019 2:16 PM, Bill wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 1/9/2019 11:18 PM, Bill wrote:
Why would someone buy this *new* jointer at 365 pounds, when they
could
have the G0490 for the same price, at 200 pounds more. Because they
had
a weak back? Makes me wonder whether the days of the G0490 are
numbered..

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Griz...ile-Base/G0857



You'd need to be a moron to buy either when you can get one with a
spiral cutter head for a few dollars more. After owning both types, I
would never buy, on purpose, a planer or jointer w/o a segmented
spiral cutter head. The difference is night and day, but the cost, in
this case, is just $30 more.

Point well-taken, but of course you meant to type "$300" more.


No, I meant $30. Surprised me as well, but I got the numbers directly
from the page you listed above, just scroll down a little:

Model: G0857 $1,295.00
Item# G0656X $1,325.00


"A" jointer, yes, but not the same jointer with the spiral head
option...the G0656X is dovetail ways, not parallelogram design.


If you also look more carefully, that's a special sale price
right now; the normal list is more like $1700.


Now, I personally don't care a whit about the two styles having had an
old 8" Delta dating from the Rockwell-Delta days and the tables are
still coplanar after some 60+ years so the scare tactics on how the
dovetails wear and drop the tables just doesn't live up to the hype for
me...


We must have the same jointer. Mine is about 65 years old and a 6" but
also has remained perfectly coplanar, so that seems to be not an issue.
Segmented spiral cutter however is a big issue.

But, "Yes, Virginia", you _could_ get one for essentially the same price
right now it appears.


Yes, $30 more, which is what I said. Can't imagine why anyone would buy
the other one, regardless of it's weight or fancy adjustment mechanism.
My self, I rarely to never adjust the tables other than after knife
sharpening. Even if the price was $300 more, I would not hesitate to
buy the spiral head. Worth much much more than that in performance.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com


  #16   Report Post  
Old January 12th 19, 05:33 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Dec 2017
Posts: 423
Default Grizzly jointers

On 1/12/2019 7:24 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/11/2019 10:50 AM, dpb wrote:
On 1/11/2019 9:33 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/10/2019 2:16 PM, Bill wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 1/9/2019 11:18 PM, Bill wrote:
Why would someone buy this *new* jointer at 365 pounds, when they
could
have the G0490 for the same price, at 200 pounds more. Because they
had
a weak back?* Makes me wonder whether the days of the G0490 are
numbered..

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Griz...ile-Base/G0857




You'd need to be a moron to buy either when you can get one with a
spiral cutter head for a few dollars more.* After owning both types, I
would never buy, on purpose, a planer or jointer w/o a segmented
spiral cutter head. The difference is night and day, but the cost, in
this case, is just $30 more.

Point well-taken, but of course you meant to type "$300" more.

No, I meant $30.* Surprised me as well, but I got the numbers directly
from the page you listed above, just scroll down a little:

Model: G0857* $1,295.00
Item# G0656X* $1,325.00


"A" jointer, yes, but not the same jointer with the spiral head
option...the G0656X is dovetail ways, not parallelogram design.


If you also look more carefully, that's a special sale price
right now; the normal list is more like $1700.


Now, I personally don't care a whit about the two styles having had an
old 8" Delta dating from the Rockwell-Delta days and the tables are
still coplanar after some 60+ years so the scare tactics on how the
dovetails wear and drop the tables just doesn't live up to the hype for
me...


We must have the same jointer.* Mine is about 65 years old and a 6" but
also has remained perfectly coplanar, so that seems to be not an issue.
*Segmented spiral cutter however is a big issue.

But, "Yes, Virginia", you _could_ get one for essentially the same price
right now it appears.


Yes, $30 more, which is what I said. Can't imagine why anyone would buy
the other one, regardless of it's weight or fancy adjustment mechanism.
*My self, I rarely to* never adjust the tables other than after knife
sharpening.* Even if the price was $300 more, I would not hesitate to
buy the spiral head.* Worth much much more than that in performance.


A) I wasn't arguing that, only that the comparison Bill made was valid,
too.

B) Just the bigger brother, yes...

I raise/lower infeed table all the time...I'm one who's still old-school
enough to actually use the rabbet table extension, taper legs, etc.,
etc, etc., ... besides just joint an edge.

I've thought a time or two about upgrading the head, but with sharp
knives I really don't find the tearout issue to be a problem...I'd far
prefer to have them on the old PM Model 180 planer, but there we are
talking "big bucks!".

--



  #17   Report Post  
Old January 12th 19, 07:20 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,137
Default Grizzly jointers

On 1/12/2019 11:33 AM, dpb wrote:
On 1/12/2019 7:24 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/11/2019 10:50 AM, dpb wrote:
On 1/11/2019 9:33 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/10/2019 2:16 PM, Bill wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 1/9/2019 11:18 PM, Bill wrote:
Why would someone buy this *new* jointer at 365 pounds, when they
could
have the G0490 for the same price, at 200 pounds more. Because they
had
a weak back? Makes me wonder whether the days of the G0490 are
numbered..

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Griz...ile-Base/G0857




You'd need to be a moron to buy either when you can get one with a
spiral cutter head for a few dollars more. After owning both
types, I
would never buy, on purpose, a planer or jointer w/o a segmented
spiral cutter head. The difference is night and day, but the cost, in
this case, is just $30 more.

Point well-taken, but of course you meant to type "$300" more.

No, I meant $30. Surprised me as well, but I got the numbers directly
from the page you listed above, just scroll down a little:

Model: G0857 $1,295.00
Item# G0656X $1,325.00


"A" jointer, yes, but not the same jointer with the spiral head
option...the G0656X is dovetail ways, not parallelogram design.


If you also look more carefully, that's a special sale price
right now; the normal list is more like $1700.


Now, I personally don't care a whit about the two styles having had an
old 8" Delta dating from the Rockwell-Delta days and the tables are
still coplanar after some 60+ years so the scare tactics on how the
dovetails wear and drop the tables just doesn't live up to the hype for
me...


We must have the same jointer. Mine is about 65 years old and a 6"
but also has remained perfectly coplanar, so that seems to be not an
issue. Segmented spiral cutter however is a big issue.

But, "Yes, Virginia", you _could_ get one for essentially the same price
right now it appears.


Yes, $30 more, which is what I said. Can't imagine why anyone would
buy the other one, regardless of it's weight or fancy adjustment
mechanism. My self, I rarely to never adjust the tables other than
after knife sharpening. Even if the price was $300 more, I would not
hesitate to buy the spiral head. Worth much much more than that in
performance.


A) I wasn't arguing that, only that the comparison Bill made was valid,
too.

B) Just the bigger brother, yes...

I raise/lower infeed table all the time...I'm one who's still old-school
enough to actually use the rabbet table extension, taper legs, etc.,
etc, etc., ... besides just joint an edge.


I experimented with that stuff once or twice when I first got my
jointer. Decided jointer not right tool for that stuff (for me). Tapers
and rabbets I always cut on table saw. Further more, I set my out feed
table for a 1/32" cut and never change it. I know 1 pass is 1/32, two is
1/16th.

As far as coplanar, I don't believe mine is even adjustable. It was
ground coplanar at the factory and should never need adjustment, far as
I know. If it was, I would screw that up in a second.

I've thought a time or two about upgrading the head, but with sharp
knives I really don't find the tearout issue to be a problem...I'd far
prefer to have them on the old PM Model 180 planer, but there we are
talking "big bucks!".


I'd upgrade in a pair of seconds if I was just starting rather than just
ending my "career". Someone makes replacement spiral cutter heads for
most planers and jointers for not all that much money. Edge jointing not
needed much but for face jointing, a major bonus. Of course, if just
starting I wouldn't/didn't know this, which is my reason for harping on
the issue here when it comes up, possibly save someone from making that
mistake.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com
  #18   Report Post  
Old January 12th 19, 08:30 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Apr 2011
Posts: 11,282
Default Grizzly jointers

On 1/12/2019 12:20 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/12/2019 11:33 AM, dpb wrote:
On 1/12/2019 7:24 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/11/2019 10:50 AM, dpb wrote:
On 1/11/2019 9:33 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/10/2019 2:16 PM, Bill wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 1/9/2019 11:18 PM, Bill wrote:
Why would someone buy this *new* jointer at 365 pounds, when they
could
have the G0490 for the same price, at 200 pounds more. Because they
had
a weak back?* Makes me wonder whether the days of the G0490 are
numbered..

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Griz...ile-Base/G0857





You'd need to be a moron to buy either when you can get one with a
spiral cutter head for a few dollars more.* After owning both
types, I
would never buy, on purpose, a planer or jointer w/o a segmented
spiral cutter head. The difference is night and day, but the
cost, in
this case, is just $30 more.

Point well-taken, but of course you meant to type "$300" more.

No, I meant $30.* Surprised me as well, but I got the numbers directly
from the page you listed above, just scroll down a little:

Model: G0857* $1,295.00
Item# G0656X* $1,325.00

"A" jointer, yes, but not the same jointer with the spiral head
option...the G0656X is dovetail ways, not parallelogram design.

If you also look more carefully, that's a special sale price
right now; the normal list is more like $1700.

Now, I personally don't care a whit about the two styles having had an
old 8" Delta dating from the Rockwell-Delta days and the tables are
still coplanar after some 60+ years so the scare tactics on how the
dovetails wear and drop the tables just doesn't live up to the hype for
me...

We must have the same jointer.* Mine is about 65 years old and a 6"
but also has remained perfectly coplanar, so that seems to be not an
issue.** Segmented spiral cutter however is a big issue.

But, "Yes, Virginia", you _could_ get one for essentially the same
price
right now it appears.

Yes, $30 more, which is what I said. Can't imagine why anyone would
buy the other one, regardless of it's weight or fancy adjustment
mechanism.** My self, I rarely to* never adjust the tables other than
after knife sharpening.* Even if the price was $300 more, I would not
hesitate to buy the spiral head.* Worth much much more than that in
performance.


A)* I wasn't arguing that, only that the comparison Bill made was valid,
too.

B)* Just the bigger brother, yes...

I raise/lower infeed table all the time...I'm one who's still old-school
enough to actually use the rabbet table extension, taper legs, etc.,
etc, etc., ... besides just joint an edge.


I experimented with that stuff once or twice when I first got* my
jointer. Decided jointer not right tool for that stuff (for me).* Tapers
and rabbets I always cut on table saw.* Further more, I set my out feed
table for a 1/32" cut and never change it. I know 1 pass is 1/32, two is
1/16th.


You set your "out feed" table for 1/32" cut?





  #19   Report Post  
Old January 13th 19, 03:55 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,137
Default Grizzly jointers

On 1/12/2019 2:30 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/12/2019 12:20 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/12/2019 11:33 AM, dpb wrote:
On 1/12/2019 7:24 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/11/2019 10:50 AM, dpb wrote:
On 1/11/2019 9:33 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/10/2019 2:16 PM, Bill wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 1/9/2019 11:18 PM, Bill wrote:
Why would someone buy this *new* jointer at 365 pounds, when they
could
have the G0490 for the same price, at 200 pounds more. Because
they
had
a weak back? Makes me wonder whether the days of the G0490 are
numbered..

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Griz...ile-Base/G0857





You'd need to be a moron to buy either when you can get one with a
spiral cutter head for a few dollars more. After owning both
types, I
would never buy, on purpose, a planer or jointer w/o a segmented
spiral cutter head. The difference is night and day, but the
cost, in
this case, is just $30 more.

Point well-taken, but of course you meant to type "$300" more.

No, I meant $30. Surprised me as well, but I got the numbers
directly
from the page you listed above, just scroll down a little:

Model: G0857 $1,295.00
Item# G0656X $1,325.00

"A" jointer, yes, but not the same jointer with the spiral head
option...the G0656X is dovetail ways, not parallelogram design.

If you also look more carefully, that's a special sale price
right now; the normal list is more like $1700.

Now, I personally don't care a whit about the two styles having had an
old 8" Delta dating from the Rockwell-Delta days and the tables are
still coplanar after some 60+ years so the scare tactics on how the
dovetails wear and drop the tables just doesn't live up to the hype
for
me...

We must have the same jointer. Mine is about 65 years old and a 6"
but also has remained perfectly coplanar, so that seems to be not an
issue. Segmented spiral cutter however is a big issue.

But, "Yes, Virginia", you _could_ get one for essentially the same
price
right now it appears.

Yes, $30 more, which is what I said. Can't imagine why anyone would
buy the other one, regardless of it's weight or fancy adjustment
mechanism. My self, I rarely to never adjust the tables other than
after knife sharpening. Even if the price was $300 more, I would not
hesitate to buy the spiral head. Worth much much more than that in
performance.

A) I wasn't arguing that, only that the comparison Bill made was valid,
too.

B) Just the bigger brother, yes...

I raise/lower infeed table all the time...I'm one who's still old-school
enough to actually use the rabbet table extension, taper legs, etc.,
etc, etc., ... besides just joint an edge.


I experimented with that stuff once or twice when I first got my
jointer. Decided jointer not right tool for that stuff (for me).
Tapers and rabbets I always cut on table saw. Further more, I set my
out feed table for a 1/32" cut and never change it. I know 1 pass is
1/32, two is 1/16th.


You set your "out feed" table for 1/32" cut?


In feed table.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com


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