On 3/7/2018 9:00 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780.* But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules?* Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather
than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too.* He speaks my language too.* He likes Hilti tools I think.
Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price)* He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh!* It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I
wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.* Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

That's exactly what I think as well...

Yeah, some one that likes to disassemble tools rather than use them.

On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:15:00 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool for almost all my needs.
And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job site when needed.
The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills.
Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent brushless models) for me to buy something else.

Big Snip

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid.
One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for
dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool
that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying,
"man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even) that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are balls to
the wall best tools ever made...

You know Jack that is exactly what he said by my reading.

YMMV I guess.

On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

Someone who has nothing better to do with his life? Yeah, an nutter.

That's exactly what I think as well...

....but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.

On 3/7/18 7:40 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

Someone who has nothing better to do with his life? Yeah, an nutter.

That's exactly what I think as well...

...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.


Man, are you a judgmental, crotchety old fart. :-)

The guy's has turned a hobby into a pretty decent part time job.
As someone who's gotten regular direct deposits from Youtube for my
content, I wish I had the followers and plays that he has.

He's providing pretty entertaining and educational content and getting
paid pretty well for it. You condescending and ignorantly ask if he has
nothing better to do with his life?

What would you prefer he do with his spare time? Watch TV all night?
How much do you get paid for bitching about guys putting videos on
YouTube?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 3/7/2018 9:33 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/7/18 7:40 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference to enough
to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules?Â* Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag
rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too.Â* He speaks my language too.Â* He likes Hilti tools I
think.Â* Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price)Â* He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh!Â* It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home
user.Â* As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I
wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.Â* Seemed to pass
so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review,
and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

Someone who has nothing better to do with his life?Â* Yeah, an nutter.

That's exactly what I think as well...

...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.


Man, are you a judgmental, crotchety old fart.Â*Â* :-)

The guy's has turned a hobby into a pretty decent part time job.
As someone who's gotten regular direct deposits from Youtube for my
content, I wish I had the followers and plays that he has.

He's providing pretty entertaining and educational content and getting
paid pretty well for it.Â* You condescending and ignorantly ask if he has
nothing better to do with his life?

What would you prefer he do with his spare time?Â* Watch TV all night?
How much do you get paid for bitching about guys putting videos on YouTube?


But do you really want to go with the opinion of some one that obviously
does not have hands on experience with actual use? Or some one that
actually uses the tools and and have determined that his findings are
irrelevant? ;~) Just saying... ;~)

On 3/7/2018 11:19 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2018 9:00 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather
than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think.
Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I
wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass
so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

That's exactly what I think as well...

Yeah, some one that likes to disassemble tools rather than use them
He uses tools just to disassemble tools. He has tools he made (with
tools) and obviously knows how to use them. You can watch him actually
USE tools yet you make dumb ass statements like this. No surprise there...

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/7/2018 12:51 PM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:15:00 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool for almost all my needs.
And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job site when needed.
The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills.
Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent brushless models) for me to buy something else.

Big Snip

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid.
One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for
dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool
that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying,
"man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even) that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are balls to
the wall best tools ever made...

You know Jack that is exactly what he said by my reading.

YMMV I guess.

Well, it is exactly what I said. What he said was comparing a HF to
Festool is stupid. THAT is a strawman. No one compared the tools, Leon
made the statement that Festools were good because pros use them. My
statement was pros use HF as well, so what. Further more, very few
"pro's" seem to use festool, more use HF, so that obviously proves
nothing at all, since HF is pretty much junk.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/7/2018 8:40 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

Someone who has nothing better to do with his life? Yeah, an nutter.

That's exactly what I think as well...

...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.

So you know all this about him yet haven't clicked on his "bait"? You
must know this guy, or are you just making crap up?

BTW, bait for what? You insinuate he earns a living doing these
video's? I'd be interested in your facts on this. I'm thinking most of
these guys make next to nothing doing this stuff.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

Jack wrote:
On 3/7/2018 12:51 PM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:15:00 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool
for almost all my needs.
And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job site when needed.
The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills.
Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent
brushless models) for me to buy something else.

Big Snip

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid.
One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for
dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool
that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying,
"man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even) that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are balls to
the wall best tools ever made...

You know Jack that is exactly what he said by my reading.

YMMV I guess.

snip

Leon made the statement that Festools were good because pros use them.

I made no such statement at all.

On 3/7/2018 11:39 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2018 9:33 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/7/18 7:40 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough
to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for
the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag
rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I
think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home
user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if
I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to
pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review,
and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

Someone who has nothing better to do with his life? Yeah, an nutter.

That's exactly what I think as well...

...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.


Man, are you a judgmental, crotchety old fart. :-)

The guy's has turned a hobby into a pretty decent part time job.
As someone who's gotten regular direct deposits from Youtube for my
content, I wish I had the followers and plays that he has.

He's providing pretty entertaining and educational content and getting
paid pretty well for it. You condescending and ignorantly ask if he
has nothing better to do with his life?

What would you prefer he do with his spare time? Watch TV all night?
How much do you get paid for bitching about guys putting videos on
YouTube?


But do you really want to go with the opinion of some one that obviously
does not have hands on experience with actual use? Or some one that
actually uses the tools and and have determined that his findings are
irrelevant? ;~) Just saying... ;~)

Just saying what? You sound like an endless festering tool commercial.
AVe said festering tools are well made, with a surprising couple of
weaknesses, which he points out, yet you cry like a baby. You say he
'trashes everything'. I recall watching about 4 of his videos, He
praised Hilti and Kitchen Aid, said lots of good things about a
festering tool, and trashed a HF drill, yet you attack him because he
pointed out a minor weakness or two in a festering tool.

Will wonders never cease.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

Jack wrote:
On 3/7/2018 11:39 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2018 9:33 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/7/18 7:40 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough
to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for
the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag
rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I
think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home
user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if
I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to
pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review,
and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

Someone who has nothing better to do with his life? Yeah, an nutter.

That's exactly what I think as well...

...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.


Man, are you a judgmental, crotchety old fart. :-)

The guy's has turned a hobby into a pretty decent part time job.
As someone who's gotten regular direct deposits from Youtube for my
content, I wish I had the followers and plays that he has.

He's providing pretty entertaining and educational content and getting
paid pretty well for it. You condescending and ignorantly ask if he
has nothing better to do with his life?

What would you prefer he do with his spare time? Watch TV all night?
How much do you get paid for bitching about guys putting videos on
YouTube?


But do you really want to go with the opinion of some one that obviously
does not have hands on experience with actual use? Or some one that
actually uses the tools and and have determined that his findings are
irrelevant? ;~) Just saying... ;~)

Just saying what? You sound like an endless festering tool commercial.
AVe said festering tools are well made, with a surprising couple of
weaknesses, which he points out, yet you cry like a baby. You say he
'trashes everything'. I recall watching about 4 of his videos, He
praised Hilti and Kitchen Aid, said lots of good things about a
festering tool, and trashed a HF drill, yet you attack him because he
pointed out a minor weakness or two in a festering tool.

Will wonders never cease.


I did say that he was funny, haha. There is some value in that I guess.

On 3/7/2018 10:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2018 8:02 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/6/2018 10:25 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/6/18 8:24 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/5/2018 1:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites
set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather
than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think.
Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price) He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous
use
and abuse that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..

Pro's have also been using Harbor Freight junk, so what?

I'd bet you would be more likely to see the pros using HF than
Festools.


Irrelevant to the context as to holding up to continuous use.
I would put good money on *any* Festool power tool lasting longer than
*any* HF power tool in side-by-side test.
Considering the price difference, it's not a difficult bet to make.

The point of course is just because some pro somewhere uses a
festering tool does not prove anything because pro's (more of them
probably) also use HF tools. That doesn't mean HF tools are super
durable any more than it proves festering tools are. AVE's review
indicates festering tools are good, but has a number of surprising
weaknesses, considering the cost.



Jack, if some pro some where was the only one using Featool, like you
are painting the picture, Festool would not be in business.

Yes there are a lot of people that are not pro's that buy Festool these
days, they can afford the top end products whether they need them or
not. But Prior to about 12 years ago Festool, back some 50 or so years,
relied mostly on the pro.

It just so happens that they found that there was a market for people
that still wanted top quality tools and that also happened to be
hobbyists.

I humorously call them dude ranchers. Sometimes I even make myself laugh.

I would say that I am some what of a pro, not full time pro, but I can
easily afford Festool products. And I cannot afford to build as much as
I do if I did not sell the vast majority of what I build. My material
costs far exceeds my tools costs. I have been seriously wood working
for 40 years and as a hobby since I was 10. I have a very good idea of
what brand tools to buy. FWIW many of my tool purchases, since I
bought my first Festool 11 years ago, have not been Festool. So you
can't say that I am one of the ignorant that believes that every tool
that a tool manufacturer makes is going to be top notch, that is just
not a reality. BUT I have yet to have to replace any of my Festool
tools which is not what I can say about any of the other brands that I
have bought. For certain the sanders have out lived my PC sanders by a
margin of 2 to 1, so far, and the Festool Sanders do more than my old PC
sanders.

As far as the click bait guy goes you can believe every thing he says
since you seem drawn to a person that uses words that you probably
cannot find in a dictionary. If you go to his YouTube videos and Click
on the Dirty Secrets of a $1000 saw, "you" and "I" have both been
victims of Click Bait. The saw in question costs no where near $1K,
Today years later after annual price increases, the saw sells for just
over half that price. I have the more expensive version and still paid
nowhere near $1K.

Yes, I noticed the overreach on the saw price. Figured that was just
saying for an expensive saw, he was surprised. Actual price was not
that important, he wasn't giving a price quote. My Makita cost about
1/4th what a festering saw w/o accessories cost. Of course a festering
track saw with festering tracks and all, probably gets close. I think he
did use the track, mumbled something about it not needing clamped?

FWIW it is just as easy to correctly spell a tool name as make up a
derogatory name. Grow up, maybe you won't show your hand before you
say anything.

Truth be told, I didn't make up the name, someone else gets the credit
for that. As for showing my hand before I say anything, good, I
wouldn't be posting anything if I wanted to hide "my hand" whatever that
might be.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/8/2018 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 3/7/2018 12:51 PM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:15:00 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool
for almost all my needs.
And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job site when needed.
The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills.
Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent
brushless models) for me to buy something else.

Big Snip

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid.
One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for
dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool
that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying,
"man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even) that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are balls to
the wall best tools ever made...

You know Jack that is exactly what he said by my reading.

YMMV I guess.

snip

Leon made the statement that Festools were good because pros use them.

I made no such statement at all.

Well, I said:
"He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse that a contractor would need."

And you replied:
"And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades.."

I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them. What was
it you were trying to say with that statement?

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/8/2018 9:05 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/8/2018 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 3/7/2018 12:51 PM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:15:00 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool
for almost all my needs.
And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job
site when needed.
The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills.
Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent
brushless models) for me to buy something else.

Big Snip

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid.
One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for
dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a
utility tool
that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional
saying,
"man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter
saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even) that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are balls to
the wall best tools ever made...

You know Jack that is exactly what he said by my reading.

YMMV I guess.

snip

Leon made the statement that Festools were good because pros use them.

I made no such statement at all.

Well, I said:
Â*"He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse that a contractor would need."

And you replied:
Â*"And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades.."

I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them.Â* What was
it you were trying to say with that statement?



Exactly what I said.

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 10:05:34 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2018 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 3/7/2018 12:51 PM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:15:00 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool
for almost all my needs.
And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job site when needed.
The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills.
Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent
brushless models) for me to buy something else.

Big Snip

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid.
One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for
dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool
that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying,
"man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even) that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are balls to
the wall best tools ever made...

You know Jack that is exactly what he said by my reading.

YMMV I guess.

snip

Leon made the statement that Festools were good because pros use them.

I made no such statement at all.

Well, I said:
"He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse that a contractor would need."

And you replied:
"And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades.."

I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them. What was
it you were trying to say with that statement?

With you it really does not matter, if it does not fit your narrative.

On 3/7/18 10:39 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2018 9:33 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/7/18 7:40 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference to enough
to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for
the
Hercules?Â* Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag
rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too.Â* He speaks my language too.Â* He likes Hilti tools I
think.Â* Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price)Â* He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh!Â* It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home
user.Â* As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if
I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.Â* Seemed to
pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review,
and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

Someone who has nothing better to do with his life?Â* Yeah, an nutter.

That's exactly what I think as well...

...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.


Man, are you a judgmental, crotchety old fart.Â*Â* :-)

The guy's has turned a hobby into a pretty decent part time job.
As someone who's gotten regular direct deposits from Youtube for my
content, I wish I had the followers and plays that he has.

He's providing pretty entertaining and educational content and getting
paid pretty well for it.Â* You condescending and ignorantly ask if he
has nothing better to do with his life?

What would you prefer he do with his spare time?Â* Watch TV all night?
How much do you get paid for bitching about guys putting videos on
YouTube?


But do you really want to go with the opinion of some one that obviously
does not have hands on experience with actual use?Â* Or some one that
actually uses the tools and and have determined that his findings are
irrelevant?Â* ;~)Â*Â*Â* Just saying...Â* ;~)

Both and neither. I usually want to get my own hands on something
before making a concrete judgment.
But I also trust the words of people I know who have and do use tools
the way I do on a regular basis, like you and Robert and Karl and other
friends not in here.
AND I trust what this guy has to say in the areas in which he obviously
has a lot of experience and knowledge. I don't know his entire
background or how much he uses or has used the tools. I can't see
someone who doesn't have a lot of firsthand experience with these tool
just deciding one day to start breaking them open and dissecting them.

I take it with a grain of salt, but I also have gotten some very good
info from his videos.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 3/8/2018 9:49 AM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 10:05:34 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2018 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 3/7/2018 12:51 PM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:15:00 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool
for almost all my needs.
And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job site when needed.
The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills.
Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent
brushless models) for me to buy something else.

Big Snip

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid.
One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for
dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool
that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying,
"man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even) that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are balls to
the wall best tools ever made...

You know Jack that is exactly what he said by my reading.

YMMV I guess.

snip

Leon made the statement that Festools were good because pros use them.

I made no such statement at all.

Well, I said:
"He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse that a contractor would need."

And you replied:
"And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades.."

I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them. What was
it you were trying to say with that statement?

With you it really does not matter, if it does not fit your narrative.


He seems to rearrange words and often gets confused.

On 3/8/2018 10:24 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/7/18 10:39 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2018 9:33 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/7/18 7:40 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference to enough
to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty
for the
Hercules?Â* Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag
rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too.Â* He speaks my language too.Â* He likes Hilti tools I
think.Â* Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price)Â* He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh!Â* It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home
user.Â* As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if
I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.Â* Seemed to
pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review,
and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

Someone who has nothing better to do with his life?Â* Yeah, an nutter.

That's exactly what I think as well...

...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.


Man, are you a judgmental, crotchety old fart.Â*Â* :-)

The guy's has turned a hobby into a pretty decent part time job.
As someone who's gotten regular direct deposits from Youtube for my
content, I wish I had the followers and plays that he has.

He's providing pretty entertaining and educational content and
getting paid pretty well for it.Â* You condescending and ignorantly
ask if he has nothing better to do with his life?

What would you prefer he do with his spare time?Â* Watch TV all night?
How much do you get paid for bitching about guys putting videos on
YouTube?


But do you really want to go with the opinion of some one that
obviously does not have hands on experience with actual use?Â* Or some
one that actually uses the tools and and have determined that his
findings are irrelevant?Â* ;~)Â*Â*Â* Just saying...Â* ;~)

Both and neither.Â* I usually want to get my own hands on something
before making a concrete judgment.
But I also trust the words of people I know who have and do use tools
the way I do on a regular basis, like you and Robert and Karl and other
friends not in here.
AND I trust what this guy has to say in the areas in which he obviously
has a lot of experience and knowledge.Â* I don't know his entire
background or how much he uses or has used the tools.Â* I can't see
someone who doesn't have a lot of firsthand experience with these tool
just deciding one day to start breaking them open and dissecting them.

Well, the more clicks he gets the more he gets paid.


I take it with a grain of salt, but I also have gotten some very good
info from his videos.


I totally understand that. He does have some interesting points of view
but many of the weak areas that he points to do not seem to matter. In
particular, the end cap of the track saw. Apparently the wrong kind of
plastic that could be broken. I suppose a better plastic would be
better if you are likely to take a hammer to that part or drop the saw.
But the plastic end cap is going to be the least of you worries if you
drop the saw on its end on a hard surface. It. like most any other
brand saw. will likely not cut true after that. The rubber hand grip on
the saw seems to be wrong too. If you spill a particular type of
solvent on it it will melt. Is that really a likely event and if it did
happen would it make the saw less functional?

I watched a video of him tearing apart a kitchen knife sharpener. His
was not a kind review of how the machine was constructed He seemed to
think the tiny internal fan was made out of the wrong plastic or
something like that. Does that matter if the fan cools the motor?
Irrelevant if the sharpener works for the few minutes you would use it
each day. My dad has a similar style sharpener. The issue with it that
I have is that it is too slooooooow. I did not watch enough of the
video to see if he actually gave a review of how it actually performed.

FWIW I think he, myself, and you could find something, that we feel
might be a problem, with most anything, But in long term use proves to
not be an issue. I believe a proven track record far outweighs any one
persons personal view.

Now if he offered a better design that would eliminate a known problem
he might be more interesting to me. But so far what he thinks to be
problems areas do not manifest to be problems, at least with the Festool
track saw.

On Thursday, 8 March 2018 10:24:20 UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

Both and neither. I usually want to get my own hands on something
before making a concrete judgment.
But I also trust the words of people I know who have and do use tools
the way I do on a regular basis, like you and Robert and Karl and other
friends not in here.

I agree. And at this point in my career I tend to have a different set of criteria I use and have scribbled about it endlessly here. Years ago (OK, maybe 20+) I realized that I am a business man with a developed skill set. No so much the craftsman/artisan/artist I aspired to be in my youth. With an eye towards utility, I always consider who is giving me their opinion and what their level of use is to form that opinion. So many of my fellow contractors are tired of poor performing, short lasting tools that we all respond with "well, it works great now, but I have only had it for a while", or "it's OK". The last tool I got excited about was the Ridgid 18V brushless drill/driver + impact tool combo. That was about a year ago.

So we all have an agreement: if it works well for me, it might not work well for you. If I recommend it, then don't cry to me if it is a failure for you.

AND I trust what this guy has to say in the areas in which he obviously
has a lot of experience and knowledge. I don't know his entire
background or how much he uses or has used the tools. I can't see
someone who doesn't have a lot of firsthand experience with these tool
just deciding one day to start breaking them open and dissecting them.

I take it with a grain of salt, but I also have gotten some very good
info from his videos.

Agree again. Regardless of whether we agree on testing methods, rendered opinions, or any faulty premise we see, there is something to be learned from someone that goes that far in depth. Some of the findings are of value, and some are not. So his voice joins the choir when making a purchase decision.

I am a self confessed knife nut. I have a lot by most people's standards, but just about the right amount for my tastes. You guys should see the "test" videos to see how "tough" guys decide a knife should be. They use folding knives to cut bolts, chop down small trees (talking about folding knives!), split wood, and they smash the locking device on the lockers until they fail.

The testers feel they have accomplished something when the knife fails after being hammered on (literally), wrenched back and forth to try to break the blade, and gets dull quickly when cutting grit embedded material. Someone has to remind them that knives are made to slice and cut, that's it. Because some of the knife designs are so tough these days, they can take it to an extent.

But after watching many of the "test" videos, I realized that their aim was to find the deficiencies of the product and push it to a dramatic failure. Real world testing and use just doesn't cut it anymore. Sound familiar?

Robert

On 3/8/2018 1:31 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, 8 March 2018 10:24:20 UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

Both and neither. I usually want to get my own hands on something
before making a concrete judgment.
But I also trust the words of people I know who have and do use tools
the way I do on a regular basis, like you and Robert and Karl and other
friends not in here.

I agree. And at this point in my career I tend to have a different set of criteria I use and have scribbled about it endlessly here. Years ago (OK, maybe 20+) I realized that I am a business man with a developed skill set. No so much the craftsman/artisan/artist I aspired to be in my youth. With an eye towards utility, I always consider who is giving me their opinion and what their level of use is to form that opinion. So many of my fellow contractors are tired of poor performing, short lasting tools that we all respond with "well, it works great now, but I have only had it for a while", or "it's OK". The last tool I got excited about was the Ridgid 18V brushless drill/driver + impact tool combo. That was about a year ago.

So we all have an agreement: if it works well for me, it might not work well for you. If I recommend it, then don't cry to me if it is a failure for you.

AND I trust what this guy has to say in the areas in which he obviously
has a lot of experience and knowledge. I don't know his entire
background or how much he uses or has used the tools. I can't see
someone who doesn't have a lot of firsthand experience with these tool
just deciding one day to start breaking them open and dissecting them.

I take it with a grain of salt, but I also have gotten some very good
info from his videos.

Agree again. Regardless of whether we agree on testing methods, rendered opinions, or any faulty premise we see, there is something to be learned from someone that goes that far in depth. Some of the findings are of value, and some are not. So his voice joins the choir when making a purchase decision.

I am a self confessed knife nut. I have a lot by most people's standards, but just about the right amount for my tastes. You guys should see the "test" videos to see how "tough" guys decide a knife should be. They use folding knives to cut bolts, chop down small trees (talking about folding knives!), split wood, and they smash the locking device on the lockers until they fail.

The testers feel they have accomplished something when the knife fails after being hammered on (literally), wrenched back and forth to try to break the blade, and gets dull quickly when cutting grit embedded material. Someone has to remind them that knives are made to slice and cut, that's it. Because some of the knife designs are so tough these days, they can take it to an extent.

But after watching many of the "test" videos, I realized that their aim was to find the deficiencies of the product and push it to a dramatic failure. Real world testing and use just doesn't cut it anymore. Sound familiar?

Robert

Sounds very familiar. Assessments on aspects that do not matter are
more in focus than intended performance.

On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 21:33:55 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 3/7/18 7:40 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

Someone who has nothing better to do with his life? Yeah, an nutter.

That's exactly what I think as well...

...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.


Man, are you a judgmental, crotchety old fart. :-)

Ayup!

The guy's has turned a hobby into a pretty decent part time job.
As someone who's gotten regular direct deposits from Youtube for my
content, I wish I had the followers and plays that he has.

I can sleep at night (well, not so much lately but...)

He's providing pretty entertaining and educational content and getting
paid pretty well for it. You condescending and ignorantly ask if he has
nothing better to do with his life?

I believe I was talking about the dummies who are paying for his fun
by taking the bait.

What would you prefer he do with his spare time? Watch TV all night?
How much do you get paid for bitching about guys putting videos on
YouTube?

He's fine. He understands his audience. I don't even blame Colbert.
;-)

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 09:05:49 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/7/2018 8:40 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

Someone who has nothing better to do with his life? Yeah, an nutter.

That's exactly what I think as well...

...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.

So you know all this about him yet haven't clicked on his "bait"? You
must know this guy, or are you just making crap up?

As always, you talk a lot but are completely ignorant. Seems to be
your MO.

BTW, bait for what? You insinuate he earns a living doing these
video's? I'd be interested in your facts on this. I'm thinking most of
these guys make next to nothing doing this stuff.

I insinuate nothing. The *FACT* is that he gets paid for clicks. That
can't be denied. Well, I guess an idiot can deny anything.

On 3/8/2018 9:09 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 09:05:49 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/7/2018 8:40 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

Someone who has nothing better to do with his life? Yeah, an nutter.

That's exactly what I think as well...

...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.

So you know all this about him yet haven't clicked on his "bait"? You
must know this guy, or are you just making crap up?

As always, you talk a lot but are completely ignorant. Seems to be
your MO.

BTW, bait for what? You insinuate he earns a living doing these
video's? I'd be interested in your facts on this. I'm thinking most of
these guys make next to nothing doing this stuff.

I insinuate nothing. The *FACT* is that he gets paid for clicks. That
can't be denied. Well, I guess an idiot can deny anything.

Maroon!

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/8/2018 11:27 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2018 9:49 AM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 10:05:34 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2018 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 3/7/2018 12:51 PM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:15:00 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy
Festool
for almost all my needs.
And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job
site when needed.
The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills.
Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent
brushless models) for me to buy something else.

Big Snip

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid.
One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest
tolerances for
dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a
utility tool
that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional
saying,
"man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter
saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even)
that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools
designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are
balls to
the wall best tools ever made...

You know Jack that is exactly what he said by my reading.

YMMV I guess.

snip

Leon made the statement that Festools were good because pros use them.

I made no such statement at all.

Well, I said:
"He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse that a contractor would need."

And you replied:
"And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades.."

I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them. What was
it you were trying to say with that statement?

With you it really does not matter, if it does not fit your narrative.


He seems to rearrange words and often gets confused.

Bull! I quoted exactly what you said, no word rearrangement. Feel free
to explain what you meant when you replied, and I quote:

"And yet pros have be using the Festool track saws for decades.."

If it was not saying festering tools are good because pros use them,
then what was it you were mumbling?

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

Jack wrote:
On 3/8/2018 11:27 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2018 9:49 AM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 10:05:34 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2018 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 3/7/2018 12:51 PM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:15:00 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy
Festool
for almost all my needs.
And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job
site when needed.
The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills.
Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent
brushless models) for me to buy something else.

Big Snip

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid.
One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest
tolerances for
dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a
utility tool
that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional
saying,
"man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter
saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even)
that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools
designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are
balls to
the wall best tools ever made...

You know Jack that is exactly what he said by my reading.

YMMV I guess.

snip

Leon made the statement that Festools were good because pros use them.

I made no such statement at all.

Well, I said:
"He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse that a contractor would need."

And you replied:
"And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades.."

I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them. What was
it you were trying to say with that statement?

With you it really does not matter, if it does not fit your narrative.


He seems to rearrange words and often gets confused.

Bull! I quoted exactly what you said, no word rearrangement. Feel free
to explain what you meant when you replied, and I quote:

"And yet pros have be using the Festool track saws for decades.."

If it was not saying festering tools are good because pros use them,
then what was it you were mumbling?

Jeez Jack

You said,
He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.


I responded,
"And yet pros have be using the Festool track saws for decades.."

So to put that /my comment into words you might understand.
My comment was in contrast to the opinion that the saw is not designed for
continuous use and abuse that a contractor would need. Because pros have
been using Festool track saws for decades it is not a stretch of the
imagination to realize that the saws have indeed been holding up for
continuous use and abuse by contractors for decades.

Then some where you said,
I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them

YOU misinterpreted my comment and added good because pros use them. I
never said they are good because pros use them. I simply said pros have
been using them for decades.

Do you think pros would be using, for decades, a saw brand that did not
hold up to the use and abuse of a contractor?

YOU are the one that said you took the comment, the fact that contractors
have been using the saws for decades, to mean they were good.

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 07:49:41 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2018 11:27 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2018 9:49 AM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 10:05:34 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2018 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 3/7/2018 12:51 PM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:15:00 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy
Festool
for almost all my needs.
And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job
site when needed.
The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills.
Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent
brushless models) for me to buy something else.

Big Snip

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid.
One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest
tolerances for
dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a
utility tool
that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional
saying,
"man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter
saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even)
that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools
designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are
balls to
the wall best tools ever made...

You know Jack that is exactly what he said by my reading.

YMMV I guess.

snip

Leon made the statement that Festools were good because pros use them.

I made no such statement at all.

Well, I said:
"He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse that a contractor would need."

And you replied:
"And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades.."

I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them. What was
it you were trying to say with that statement?

With you it really does not matter, if it does not fit your narrative.


He seems to rearrange words and often gets confused.

Bull! I quoted exactly what you said, no word rearrangement. Feel free
to explain what you meant when you replied, and I quote:

"And yet pros have be using the Festool track saws for decades.."

If it was not saying festering tools are good because pros use them,
then what was it you were mumbling?

In response to tool reviewers statement that it is not a pro tool, so
you keep on yur track.

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 07:46:40 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2018 9:09 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 09:05:49 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/7/2018 8:40 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

Someone who has nothing better to do with his life? Yeah, an nutter.

That's exactly what I think as well...

...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.

So you know all this about him yet haven't clicked on his "bait"? You
must know this guy, or are you just making crap up?

As always, you talk a lot but are completely ignorant. Seems to be
your MO.

BTW, bait for what? You insinuate he earns a living doing these
video's? I'd be interested in your facts on this. I'm thinking most of
these guys make next to nothing doing this stuff.

I insinuate nothing. The *FACT* is that he gets paid for clicks. That
can't be denied. Well, I guess an idiot can deny anything.

Maroon!

Dumb****!

On 3/5/18 12:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

IIRC, he was concerned about one bearing on the saw, but he was also
very impressed with the Festool casting and machining and took a lot of
time to point it out and offered many compliments.




That bearing caught my interest. He was correct in that helical gears
produce thrust forces, but I believe the thrust is against the inboard
bushing and not the bearing (I'll have to watch again to confirm).

The comment about the stator windings not being better protected and the
pinched wire were eye openers.

-BR

On 3/9/2018 8:48 AM, Leon wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 3/8/2018 11:27 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2018 9:49 AM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 10:05:34 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2018 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 3/7/2018 12:51 PM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:15:00 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy
Festool
for almost all my needs.
And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job
site when needed.
The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills.
Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent
brushless models) for me to buy something else.

Big Snip

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid.
One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest
tolerances for
dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a
utility tool
that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional
saying,
"man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter
saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even)
that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools
designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are
balls to
the wall best tools ever made...

You know Jack that is exactly what he said by my reading.

YMMV I guess.

snip

Leon made the statement that Festools were good because pros use them.

I made no such statement at all.

Well, I said:
"He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse that a contractor would need."

And you replied:
"And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades.."

I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them. What was
it you were trying to say with that statement?

With you it really does not matter, if it does not fit your narrative.


He seems to rearrange words and often gets confused.

Bull! I quoted exactly what you said, no word rearrangement. Feel free
to explain what you meant when you replied, and I quote:

"And yet pros have be using the Festool track saws for decades.."

If it was not saying festering tools are good because pros use them,
then what was it you were mumbling?

Jeez Jack

You said,
He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.


I responded,
"And yet pros have be using the Festool track saws for decades.."

So to put that /my comment into words you might understand.
My comment was in contrast to the opinion that the saw is not designed for
continuous use and abuse that a contractor would need. Because pros have
been using Festool track saws for decades it is not a stretch of the
imagination to realize that the saws have indeed been holding up for
continuous use and abuse by contractors for decades.

Then some where you said,
I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them

YOU misinterpreted my comment and added good because pros use them. I
never said they are good because pros use them. I simply said pros have
been using them for decades.

Do you think pros would be using, for decades, a saw brand that did not
hold up to the use and abuse of a contractor?

YOU are the one that said you took the comment, the fact that contractors
have been using the saws for decades, to mean they were good.

OK, you win, you were not saying festering tools are good, but durable.
Pros use them because they are durable. My mistake, didn't know you
were going to split hairs...

So if "pro's" using a tool proves they are durable (not good but
durable) then it follows that HF tools are durable because Pro's use
them? Moreover, since more pro's use HF tools, and Bosch tools, and
Ridgid tools than Festering tools, then all those must be more durable
than festools. Is that what you were saying? Sounds lame whether you
use the word good or durable.

I'd rather take Vhe's teardown where he gave Festering tools a rather
good review, pointing out strengths and weaknesses, than the fact lots
of pro's use HF tools so they must be durable. In fact, Vhe's review of
a HF drill he says they should last about as long as their 90 day
warranty, or something like that, so pro's using them doesn't cut it
with him either.

Personally, I think most HF tools are just as good as any other tools,
just their life expectancy is nil. I'd bet money I can drill a really
good hole with a HF drill, just not a lot of them, so the tool is good,
just not durable...

So if you want to drill a good hole, buy the cheapest tool you can find,
probably HF. If you want good and durable to drill endless holes, buy
the most expensive tool you can find, probably a Hilti. If you want in
between, go for Bosch, Rigid Makita etc.

BTW, a cursory look at Vhe teardown of the silly Bosch toy chainsaw tool
the comit posted seemed to be good as far as build goes. So there is yet
another review of his that was not just trashing tools, like you
inferred he does. In fact, the Hilti, the Kitchen Aid, the Festool and
Bosch reviews were good, the HF was not good. 4 out of 5 ain't bad.











--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/9/2018 2:00 PM, Markem wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 07:49:41 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2018 11:27 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2018 9:49 AM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 10:05:34 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2018 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 3/7/2018 12:51 PM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:15:00 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy
Festool
for almost all my needs.
And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job
site when needed.
The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills.
Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent
brushless models) for me to buy something else.

Big Snip

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid.
One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest
tolerances for
dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a
utility tool
that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional
saying,
"man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter
saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even)
that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools
designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are
balls to
the wall best tools ever made...

You know Jack that is exactly what he said by my reading.

YMMV I guess.

snip

Leon made the statement that Festools were good because pros use them.

I made no such statement at all.

Well, I said:
"He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse that a contractor would need."

And you replied:
"And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades.."

I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them. What was
it you were trying to say with that statement?

With you it really does not matter, if it does not fit your narrative.


He seems to rearrange words and often gets confused.

Bull! I quoted exactly what you said, no word rearrangement. Feel free
to explain what you meant when you replied, and I quote:

"And yet pros have be using the Festool track saws for decades.."

If it was not saying festering tools are good because pros use them,
then what was it you were mumbling?

In response to tool reviewers statement that it is not a pro tool, so
you keep on yur track.

The tool reviewer never used the word "Pro" He said not designed for
continuous use and abuse a contractor wood need, so you keep splitting
hairs




--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 10:44:38 -0500, Jack wrote:

The tool reviewer never used the word "Pro" He said not designed for
continuous use and abuse a contractor wood need, so you keep splitting
hairs

You keep laying them out so nicely to be split.

On 3/10/2018 9:39 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/9/2018 8:48 AM, Leon wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 3/8/2018 11:27 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2018 9:49 AM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 10:05:34 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2018 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 3/7/2018 12:51 PM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:15:00 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy
Festool
for almost all my needs.
And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job
site when needed.
The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills.
Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent
brushless models) for me to buy something else.

Big Snip

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid.
One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest
tolerances for
dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a
utility tool
that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional
saying,
"man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter
saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even)
that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools
designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are
balls to
the wall best tools ever made...

You know Jack that is exactly what he said by my reading.

YMMV I guess.

snip

Leon made the statement that Festools were good because pros use
them.

I made no such statement at all.

Well, I said:
"He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse that a contractor would need."

And you replied:
"And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades.."

I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them.
What was
it you were trying to say with that statement?

With you it really does not matter, if it does not fit your narrative.


He seems to rearrange words and often gets confused.

Bull!Â* I quoted exactly what you said, no word rearrangement. Feel free
to explain what you meant when you replied, and I quote:

"And yet pros have be using the Festool track saws for decades.."

If it was not saying festering tools are good because pros use them,
then what was it you were mumbling?

Jeez Jack

You said,
He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.


I responded,
Â* "And yet pros have be using the Festool track saws for decades.."

So to put that /my comment into words you might understand.
My commentÂ* was in contrast to the opinion that the saw is not
designed for
continuous use and abuse that a contractor would need.Â*Â* Because pros
have
been using Festool track saws for decades it is not a stretch of the
imagination to realize that the saws have indeed been holding up for
continuous use and abuse by contractors for decades.

Then some where you said,
Â* I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them

YOU misinterpreted my comment and added good because pros use them.Â*Â* I
never said they are good because pros use them.Â* I simply said pros have
been using them for decades.

Do you think pros would be using, for decades, a saw brand that did not
hold up to the use and abuse of a contractor?

YOU are the one that said you took the comment,Â* the fact that
contractors
have been using the saws for decades, to mean they were good.

OK, you win, you were not saying festering tools are good, but durable.
Pros use them because they are durable.Â* My mistake, didn't know you
were going to split hairs...

I won nothing, this was not a contest. I was not splitting hairs, I was
pretty up front.

I did not say durable either. I said something like, Some one said
the saw would not hold up to contractors use. Festool has been selling
the saw to pro's/contractors for 40 plus years. "You" probably have to
think about that to get from A to B.


So if "pro's" using a tool proves they are durable (not good but
durable) then it follows that HF tools are durable because Pro's use
them?Â* Moreover, since more pro's use HF tools, and Bosch tools, and
Ridgid tools than Festering tools, then all those must be more durable
than festools. Is that what you were saying?Â* Sounds lame whether you
use the word good or durable.

Jack you are making stuff up. It is not complicated. The saws have
been used by pros for decades. A reasonable assumption is that the saws
are likely to be holding up.

That is all I was commenting on. Try to stay on that and not read into
my comments something you would like to argue about.



I'd rather take Vhe's teardown where he gave Festering tools a rather
good review, pointing out strengths and weaknesses, than the fact lots
of pro's use HF tools so they must be durable. In fact, Vhe's review of
a HF drill he says they should last about as long as their 90 day
warranty, or something like that, so pro's using them doesn't cut it
with him either.

That does not make him or his reviews credible. Things he points out as
deficiencies with the products he reviews are not always a concern in
the long run. In the real world and with real world use the things he
seems concerned about may not be an issue. I'm surprised he is not
impressed or unimpressed by the color of a product.

You seem to be impressed by him and if that makes you happy, good for you.



Personally, I think most HF tools are just as good as any other tools,
just their life expectancy is nil.Â* I'd bet money I can drill a really
good hole with a HF drill, just not a lot of them, so the tool is good,
just not durable...

Well I think you certainly seem to have an understanding of the words
good and also durable.



So if you want to drill a good hole, buy the cheapest tool you can find,
probably HF.Â* If you want good and durable to drill endless holes, buy
the most expensive tool you can find, probably a Hilti.Â* If you want in
between, go for Bosch, Rigid Makita etc.

You seem to be fascinated with holes! Buy what makes you happy when
drilling your hole or holes.


BTW, a cursory look at Vhe teardown of the silly Bosch toy chainsaw tool
the comit posted seemed to be good as far as build goes. So there is yet
another review of his that was not just trashing tools, like you
inferred he does.Â* In fact, the Hilti, the Kitchen Aid, the Festool and
Bosch reviews were good, the HF was not good.Â* 4 out of 5 ain't bad.

Still I find his reviews irrelevant. Maybe you need a starting point
for making a decision on what you would consider buying.

I'm using experience with the actual brands and tools that I work with.

On 3/10/2018 12:56 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/10/2018 9:39 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/9/2018 8:48 AM, Leon wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 3/8/2018 11:27 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2018 9:49 AM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 10:05:34 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2018 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 3/7/2018 12:51 PM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:15:00 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy
Festool
for almost all my needs.
And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job
site when needed.
The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills.
Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent
brushless models) for me to buy something else.

Big Snip

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid.
One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest
tolerances for
dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a
utility tool
that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional
saying,
"man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter
saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself
even)
that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools
designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are
balls to
the wall best tools ever made...

You know Jack that is exactly what he said by my reading.

YMMV I guess.

snip

Leon made the statement that Festools were good because pros use
them.

I made no such statement at all.

Well, I said:
"He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
abuse that a contractor would need."

And you replied:
"And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades.."

I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them.
What was
it you were trying to say with that statement?

With you it really does not matter, if it does not fit your
narrative.


He seems to rearrange words and often gets confused.

Bull! I quoted exactly what you said, no word rearrangement. Feel free
to explain what you meant when you replied, and I quote:

"And yet pros have be using the Festool track saws for decades.."

If it was not saying festering tools are good because pros use them,
then what was it you were mumbling?

Jeez Jack

You said,
He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.


I responded,
"And yet pros have be using the Festool track saws for decades.."

So to put that /my comment into words you might understand.
My comment was in contrast to the opinion that the saw is not
designed for
continuous use and abuse that a contractor would need. Because pros
have
been using Festool track saws for decades it is not a stretch of the
imagination to realize that the saws have indeed been holding up for
continuous use and abuse by contractors for decades.

Then some where you said,
I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them

YOU misinterpreted my comment and added good because pros use them. I
never said they are good because pros use them. I simply said pros have
been using them for decades.

Do you think pros would be using, for decades, a saw brand that did not
hold up to the use and abuse of a contractor?

YOU are the one that said you took the comment, the fact that
contractors
have been using the saws for decades, to mean they were good.

OK, you win, you were not saying festering tools are good, but
durable. Pros use them because they are durable. My mistake, didn't
know you were going to split hairs...

I won nothing, this was not a contest. I was not splitting hairs, I was
pretty up front.

You are splitting hairs.

I did not say durable either. I said something like, Some one said
the saw would not hold up to contractors use. Festool has been selling
the saw to pro's/contractors for 40 plus years. "You" probably have to
think about that to get from A to B.

So if "pro's" using a tool proves they are durable (not good but
durable) then it follows that HF tools are durable because Pro's use
them? Moreover, since more pro's use HF tools, and Bosch tools, and
Ridgid tools than Festering tools, then all those must be more durable
than festools. Is that what you were saying? Sounds lame whether you
use the word good or durable.

Jack you are making stuff up. It is not complicated. The saws have
been used by pros for decades. A reasonable assumption is that the saws
are likely to be holding up.

So, you were not saying festering tools are "good" because some pro's
use them. They are not durable because some pro's use them, but they
"hold up" because some pro's use them. Well in the words of Steve
Martin: EXCUSE ME!


I didn't make up that pro's have been using HF tools for years. I didn't
make up that HF tools are not good, I mean durable. One does not
necessarily follow the other, so you saying it has no meaning, even
less meaning when you realize more pro's use HF tools than Festools, or
that more pro's use Ridged, Bosch, Mikita and probably most any named
tool more than Festool. Is it reasonable then to assume that all these
tools, including HF tools are likely to be holding up?

That is all I was commenting on. Try to stay on that and not read into
my comments something you would like to argue about.

When I read your arguments I have to read into them what the words say.
When you argue about what I say, or claim I twist your words around, I
sometimes enjoy arguing back, otherwise I would not respond to your
arguments. How about you, why do you like to argue this crap?

I'd rather take Vhe's teardown where he gave Festering tools a rather
good review, pointing out strengths and weaknesses, than the fact lots
of pro's use HF tools so they must be durable. In fact, Vhe's review
of a HF drill he says they should last about as long as their 90 day
warranty, or something like that, so pro's using them doesn't cut it
with him either.

That does not make him or his reviews credible. Things he points out as
deficiencies with the products he reviews are not always a concern in
the long run. In the real world and with real world use the things he
seems concerned about may not be an issue. I'm surprised he is not
impressed or unimpressed by the color of a product.

You seem to be impressed by him and if that makes you happy, good for you.



Personally, I think most HF tools are just as good as any other tools,
just their life expectancy is nil. I'd bet money I can drill a really
good hole with a HF drill, just not a lot of them, so the tool is
good, just not durable...

Well I think you certainly seem to have an understanding of the words
good and also durable.



So if you want to drill a good hole, buy the cheapest tool you can
find, probably HF. If you want good and durable to drill endless
holes, buy the most expensive tool you can find, probably a Hilti. If
you want in between, go for Bosch, Rigid Makita etc.

You seem to be fascinated with holes! Buy what makes you happy when
drilling your hole or holes.

Fascinated watching you claim there is some big difference between a
tool being good, durable or holding up.

For your enlightenment, "durable" and "holding up" are exactly the same,
and good is a reasonable description of a tool that is durable/ "holds
up" for anyone not splitting hairs...

BTW, a cursory look at Vhe teardown of the silly Bosch toy chainsaw
tool the comit posted seemed to be good as far as build goes. So there
is yet another review of his that was not just trashing tools, like
you inferred he does. In fact, the Hilti, the Kitchen Aid, the
Festool and Bosch reviews were good, the HF was not good. 4 out of 5
ain't bad.

Still I find his reviews irrelevant. Maybe you need a starting point
for making a decision on what you would consider buying.

True, I certainly would never spend $700 on a shop vac w/o some
investigation.

I'm using experience with the actual brands and tools that I work with.

And your actual experience perfectly matches what AVe said in his
festool review. I'm not surprised, his reviews seem rather complete.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 18:32:13 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid. One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying, "man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

I fail to understand all the animosity for Festool unless it boils down
to: "I can't afford them therefore I will disparage them."

The best I can tell from reading here and talking to owner/users of
Festool tools they have no complaints except perhaps for the initial
cost.

If I was 40 years younger, and setting up a woodworking hobby shop my
go-to brand would be Festool. And, 40 years later the tools might be
antiquated but I'd be willing to bet that they would still be working -
and, if not, Festool would be happy to repair them...
--

Jerry O.

On 3/16/18 4:44 PM, Jerry Osage wrote:
I fail to understand all the animosity for Festool unless it boils down
to: "I can't afford them therefore I will disparage them."

BINGO!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 16:44:15 -0500, (Jerry
Osage) wrote:

On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 18:32:13 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid. One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying, "man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

I fail to understand all the animosity for Festool unless it boils down
to: "I can't afford them therefore I will disparage them."

By Jove! I think he's got it!

The best I can tell from reading here and talking to owner/users of
Festool tools they have no complaints except perhaps for the initial
cost.

I earned a long time back that when you buy the best, you only cry
once.

If I was 40 years younger, and setting up a woodworking hobby shop my
go-to brand would be Festool. And, 40 years later the tools might be
antiquated but I'd be willing to bet that they would still be working -
and, if not, Festool would be happy to repair them...

I'm not 40 years younger (I couldn't afford them 40 years ago) but I
bought mine because they had something to offer that I wanted more
than the cash.

On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 19:59:32 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 16:44:15 -0500, (Jerry
Osage) wrote:

On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 18:32:13 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid. One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying, "man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

I fail to understand all the animosity for Festool unless it boils down
to: "I can't afford them therefore I will disparage them."

By Jove! I think he's got it!

The best I can tell from reading here and talking to owner/users of
Festool tools they have no complaints except perhaps for the initial
cost.

I earned a long time back that when you buy the best, you only cry
once.

If I was 40 years younger, and setting up a woodworking hobby shop my
go-to brand would be Festool. And, 40 years later the tools might be
antiquated but I'd be willing to bet that they would still be working -
and, if not, Festool would be happy to repair them...

I'm not 40 years younger (I couldn't afford them 40 years ago) but I
bought mine because they had something to offer that I wanted more
than the cash.

My father, and his brothers, were cabinet makers. Other relatives were
carpenters/house builders. I was pretty well versed in cabinet making.
However. perhaps because of the experience I wanted a job where I wore a
suit and spent a lot of time behind a desk. Then go home and garden and
make sawdust

I never wanted to take it beyond a hobby - however I wanted quality
tools. Cry once and get on with it. "How do you justify all this stuff?"
"I wanted it, we could afford it, and my wife said OK - that's all the
justification I needed."

The only complaints I see or hear about Festool tools - from Festool
owners - is the price. Never once have I heard: "It's a crappy tool, it
does crappy work, repeatability sucks, and it is always breaking down."

What I hear is: "they are great tools and they are expensive, however,
if you have the coin and can justify spending it, you'll be glad you
did. And I agree.
--

Jerry O.

On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 19:50:32 -0500, (Jerry
Osage) wrote:

On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 19:59:32 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 16:44:15 -0500, (Jerry
Osage) wrote:

On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 18:32:13 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid. One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying, "man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

I fail to understand all the animosity for Festool unless it boils down
to: "I can't afford them therefore I will disparage them."

By Jove! I think he's got it!

The best I can tell from reading here and talking to owner/users of
Festool tools they have no complaints except perhaps for the initial
cost.

I earned a long time back that when you buy the best, you only cry
once.

If I was 40 years younger, and setting up a woodworking hobby shop my
go-to brand would be Festool. And, 40 years later the tools might be
antiquated but I'd be willing to bet that they would still be working -
and, if not, Festool would be happy to repair them...

I'm not 40 years younger (I couldn't afford them 40 years ago) but I
bought mine because they had something to offer that I wanted more
than the cash.

My father, and his brothers, were cabinet makers. Other relatives were
carpenters/house builders. I was pretty well versed in cabinet making.
However. perhaps because of the experience I wanted a job where I wore a
suit and spent a lot of time behind a desk. Then go home and garden and
make sawdust

I never wanted to take it beyond a hobby - however I wanted quality
tools. Cry once and get on with it. "How do you justify all this stuff?"
"I wanted it, we could afford it, and my wife said OK - that's all the
justification I needed."

Exactly. Hobbies don't need justification beyond "because I want it".
Of course, there are priorities. SWMBO gives me a ration about "green
stuff" but really doesn't care. We were at Highland today (it's my
lollypop after the doc does his thing - it's a mile or two from the
hospital) and I was eyeing a $3K lathe, just to pump her up a bit. She
just said, no problem, but reminded me that I couldn't lift more than
10lbs. There's always next time. ;-)

The only complaints I see or hear about Festool tools - from Festool
owners - is the price. Never once have I heard: "It's a crappy tool, it
does crappy work, repeatability sucks, and it is always breaking down."

I did hear some grumbles on FOG about Kapex failures but that's about
it.

What I hear is: "they are great tools and they are expensive, however,
if you have the coin and can justify spending it, you'll be glad you
did. And I agree.

Yep. I couldn't believe how well the Rotex worked. Every sander,
including a Bosch, that I've bought has turned out to be a major PITA.
Not the Festools. Leon sure hooked a fish here.

On 3/16/2018 4:44 PM, Jerry Osage wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 18:32:13 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid. One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying, "man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

I fail to understand all the animosity for Festool unless it boils down
to: "I can't afford them therefore I will disparage them."

You hit the nail on the head.

Although there are valid reasons for not buying Festool other than not
being able to afford them. Nailshooter has a very valid concern of the
tools walking off from the job site or a worker treating it like it was
an inexpensive and easy to replace tool.