Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set on
the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go from a 3
year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the Hercules? Will
anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means that
it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

On Sat, 3 Mar 2018 10:49:11 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set on
the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go from a 3
year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the Hercules? Will
anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

I liked the first sentence of this comment: "Harbor Freight's been
sniffing too much cosmoline...."

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means that
it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

That's better than Bosch. Even with a vac, the users shirt gets more
sawdust than the vac. So, how's the Kapex for dust? It's looking
better and better.

On 3/3/2018 11:18 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Mar 2018 10:49:11 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set on
the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go from a 3
year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the Hercules? Will
anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

I liked the first sentence of this comment: "Harbor Freight's been
sniffing too much cosmoline...."

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means that
it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

That's better than Bosch. Even with a vac, the users shirt gets more
sawdust than the vac. So, how's the Kapex for dust? It's looking
better and better.


The Kapex dust collection with the vac is probably better than the dust
collection of their track saws. You really don't notice any dust until
you have cut several boards. And then it is mostly the coarse stuff
that does not go far. I stay as free of dust on my clothing as I do
when using my Festool sanders, and those work extremely well.

I will have to say that I am very happy with the set up I got with the
Kapex as well as the Kapex. I knew that this purchase would be an
indulgence as it was hard to justify the price considering how much I
thought I would use it. More and more I am thinking that the dust
collection alone may very well justify the price over the Bosch Glide
that I was considering.

On a side note, I understand that if you use the bigger 36mm hose
instead of the more common 27mm hose dust collection works even better.
No bottle neck where the hose attaches to the saw. It fits over rather
than inside the saw manifold.

If you have an issue with dust you should check it out.

On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set on
the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference to enough to go from a 3
year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the Hercules?Â* Will
anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means that it
will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

Well, they couldn't possibly 'step down' their game, could they?

On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set on
the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference to enough to go from a 3
year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the Hercules?Â* Will
anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means that
it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.

--
Jeff

On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 10:49:30 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set on
the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go from a 3
year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the Hercules? Will
anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

You know realistically you will never have to. On big ticket items they frequently have sales on them showing 25% off or more. Then there is the coupon that comes every other day in email, a flyer every two weeks with the same, and every quarter a flyer with 25% off. So $300 plus some change is realistic.

The saw looked nice in the video, and the construction sure looked like a lot of miter saws out there. I know this is a "badged item" but I couldn't really find anyone's specs out there that match this model. BTW, sure like the LED. I like the adjustable stainless turret ring detent as you can fine tune your saw beyond factory. Most saws (any besides DeWalt?) don't allow you to get fine tuned to your own specs. The blue blade looks suspiciously like a Diablo blade with its laser cut outs, but doubt that it is.

As far as the 90 day warranty, you can get an in store warranty for just a few dollars to extend it to 2 years. That is for //replacement// at the store, not for repairs. Having waited for parts on my Bostitch air guns, my DeWalt saws and drills, and having to ship off my Ridgid tools for evaluation before repairs, I like that. Pretty nice to be able to have a tool break in the morning and have a new one out on the job in a couple of hours at no additional charge. Both DeWalt and Bosch require you to ship (a 60lb miter saw) to their repair center if you don't have one in your town. The caveat there is to find the DeWalt/Bosch center that works on your particular tool; don't get me started on that subject.

Note too, that when reading the respective warranties, that DeWalt is 3 year limited, and Bosch only 1 year limited. Limited in both cases means that there is no warranty for anything other than manufacturing defects of material or in workmanship. Their warranties do not cover wear and tear. I like DeWalt tools and like Bosch tools (some a great deal) but never have I gone to the repair center where I didn't pay extra for repairs. Remember, bench fees at most places are about $75 and they determine what is normal wear and tear. So it is a $75 crap shoot; and if they ask you if you use the tool commercially, I can almost guarantee there will be no warranty. In store replacement starts to look even better, right? Consider too, that most manufacturers exclude professional use of the tools from anything more than a 90 day warranty, regardless of box art claims.

I have used the HF additional warranty coverage, and believe me, no one in the store I go to wants to argue. They look at the tool, make sure it wasn't run over and shows no signs of obvious abuse, they get the manager and you have a new tool. And with the purchase of the additional warranty, they register you and the tool purchase info on the spot.

So all that for probably about $350, including additional local warranty as described/experienced. That puts it a whopping $250 under the DeWalt and Bosch I found at Amazon. They are at $599 as of a few minutes ago.

I think it will come down to the actual repeatable accuracy and dependability of the saw. Even though some of the new offerings from HF like their Bauer and Hercules seem to spec out better, apparently some guys on the 'net seem to think they are inferior products. At $250 less, it seems like it could sure be worth looking at!

Robert

On 3/3/2018 12:55 PM, wrote:
Snip


I think it will come down to the actual repeatable accuracy and dependability of the saw. Even though some of the new offerings from HF like their Bauer and Hercules seem to spec out better, apparently some guys on the 'net seem to think they are inferior products. At $250 less, it seems like it could sure be worth looking at!

Robert


That is what it is all about, will it be accurate. My big question is
if it will be that much better than their Chicago Electric saw that
sells for less than half of that price. Apparently users of the Chicago
saw are pretty impressed too.

On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules?Â* Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Sat, 3 Mar 2018 11:38:54 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/3/2018 11:18 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Mar 2018 10:49:11 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set on
the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go from a 3
year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the Hercules? Will
anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

I liked the first sentence of this comment: "Harbor Freight's been
sniffing too much cosmoline...."

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means that
it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

That's better than Bosch. Even with a vac, the users shirt gets more
sawdust than the vac. So, how's the Kapex for dust? It's looking
better and better.


The Kapex dust collection with the vac is probably better than the dust
collection of their track saws. You really don't notice any dust until
you have cut several boards. And then it is mostly the coarse stuff
that does not go far. I stay as free of dust on my clothing as I do
when using my Festool sanders, and those work extremely well.

I will have to say that I am very happy with the set up I got with the
Kapex as well as the Kapex. I knew that this purchase would be an
indulgence as it was hard to justify the price considering how much I
thought I would use it. More and more I am thinking that the dust
collection alone may very well justify the price over the Bosch Glide
that I was considering.

On a side note, I understand that if you use the bigger 36mm hose
instead of the more common 27mm hose dust collection works even better.
No bottle neck where the hose attaches to the saw. It fits over rather
than inside the saw manifold.

Whichever way I go, I'll likely use my DC for the SCMS. It's pretty
much right next to where it's going.

If you have an issue with dust you should check it out.

I will. You convince me, long ago, that it's better to clean up the
source than the floor (and lungs).

On 3/3/2018 8:34 PM, wrote:

Snip



On a side note, I understand that if you use the bigger 36mm hose
instead of the more common 27mm hose dust collection works even better.
No bottle neck where the hose attaches to the saw. It fits over rather
than inside the saw manifold.

Whichever way I go, I'll likely use my DC for the SCMS. It's pretty
much right next to where it's going.

If you have an issue with dust you should check it out.

I will. You convince me, long ago, that it's better to clean up the
source than the floor (and lungs).


Yeah! It is ironic how long it took me to realize the benefits of
collecting dust before you see it. No need to clean up or dust off
before going inside the house and many fewer sinus issues. Out of the
40 years of serious wood working I went about 22 years before seeing the
light, instead of the dust.

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/3/2018 1:55 PM, wrote:

BTW, sure like the LED.

I have a Crapsman 20 volt saw that has a laser light. I LOVE the light,
and it enables me to cut almost as straight as a carpenter. My tailed
Makita is a nice saw, but I'd never buy another circular saw w/o a
laser. Makes cutting down the line of a 4/8 foot hunk of ply a breeze.
Thought it might be a gimmick, but it's not.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules?Â* Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too.Â* He speaks my language too.Â* He likes Hilti tools I think.Â* Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price)Â* He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..




Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.Â* As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.Â* Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.


This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes as
possible. Click bate.

On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

On 3/5/18 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
sites set on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference
to enough to go from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90
day warranty for the Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF
SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
means that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust
bag rather than in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy! I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think.
Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price) He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous
use and abuse that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..




Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
As a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really,
if I wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti
first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass
so I was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
after watching him a few times, I believe him.


This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes
as possible. Click bate.

Actually, I find him both entertaining and knowledgeable. Not your
typical vapid haha type.
He obviously has a lot of education/knowledge of electrical and
mechanical engineering and knows a lot about plastics and metals
manufacturing.

I haven't found him to be a Festool basher. He doesn't pull punches
where he sees a need to be critical, but he also doesn't "look for
reasons" to bash something.
IIRC, he was concerned about one bearing on the saw, but he was also
very impressed with the Festool casting and machining and took a lot of
time to point it out and offered many compliments.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 3/5/2018 1:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/5/18 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
sites set on the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference
to enough to go from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90
day warranty for the Hercules?Â* Will anyone pay $399 for a HF
SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
means that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust
bag rather than in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy! I'm watching it, now.

Me too.Â* He speaks my language too.Â* He likes Hilti tools I think.
Â*Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price)Â* He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous
use and abuse that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..




Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
As a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really,
if I wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti
first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.Â* Seemed to pass
so I was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
Â*after watching him a few times, I believe him.


This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes
as possible.Â* Click bate.

Actually, I find him both entertaining and knowledgeable.Â* Not your
typical vapid haha type.
He obviously has a lot of education/knowledge of electrical and
mechanical engineering and knows a lot about plastics and metals
manufacturing.

I haven't found him to be a Festool basher.Â* He doesn't pull punches
where he sees a need to be critical, but he also doesn't "look for
reasons" to bash something.
IIRC, he was concerned about one bearing on the saw, but he was also
very impressed with the Festool casting and machining and took a lot of
time to point it out and offered many compliments.


Regardless of his findings of materials used, the tools hold up,
extremely well. I personally could care less what the materials are
made up of if the tool does what it is suppose to do and for years on
end. I kind of finds his findings pointless. But he is funny, haha.
Obviously every thing has a weak point otherwise everything would one
day degenerate in to a pile of dust. ;~)

On 3/3/18 10:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set on
the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference to enough to go from a 3
year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the Hercules?Â* Will
anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means that
it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

Home Depot must be paying attention....
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-10-in-Sliding-Miter-R4210/301463268
70° miter capacity!!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 3/5/2018 1:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think.
Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price) He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use
and abuse that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..

Pro's have also been using Harbor Freight junk, so what?

I'd bet you would be more likely to see the pros using HF than Festools.

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As
a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I
wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
after watching him a few times, I believe him.


This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes as
possible. Click bate.


--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/6/2018 8:24 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/5/2018 1:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules?Â* Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too.Â* He speaks my language too.Â* He likes Hilti tools I think.
Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price)Â* He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use
and abuse that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..

Pro's have also been using Harbor Freight junk, so what?

I don't know, so what. He said that the TS55 is not designed for
continuous use. He has no evidence that they will not work as well as
another brand with regard to function or longevity. And years of, in
the field use, has proven that.




I'd bet you would be more likely to see the pros using HF than Festools.

Yeah, so what?




Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.Â* As
a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I
wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.Â* Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
after watching him a few times, I believe him.


This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes as
possible.Â* Click bate.

On 3/5/2018 5:49 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 1:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/5/18 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
sites set on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference
to enough to go from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90
day warranty for the Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF
SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
means that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust
bag rather than in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy! I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think.
Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price) He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous
use and abuse that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..




Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
As a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really,
if I wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti
first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass
so I was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
after watching him a few times, I believe him.


This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes
as possible. Click bate.

Actually, I find him both entertaining and knowledgeable. Not your
typical vapid haha type.
He obviously has a lot of education/knowledge of electrical and
mechanical engineering and knows a lot about plastics and metals
manufacturing.

I haven't found him to be a Festool basher. He doesn't pull punches
where he sees a need to be critical, but he also doesn't "look for
reasons" to bash something.
IIRC, he was concerned about one bearing on the saw, but he was also
very impressed with the Festool casting and machining and took a lot of
time to point it out and offered many compliments.


Regardless of his findings of materials used, the tools hold up,
extremely well.

Compared to what? A high priced Hilti or a 1/10th priced HF?

His opinion seems to be, based on tearing down tools to see what they
are made of, is that the Festool is a nice tool, but you _don't_ get
what you pay for, and the Hilti is a great tool, but you _do_ get what
you pay for. Also, he said Festool seems designed for the occasional
user that is not going to use and abuse the tool, like a homeowner. Not
good for continuous use and abuse, like a contractor.

My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
dude rancher.

I personally could care less what the materials are
made up of if the tool does what it is suppose to do and for years on
end. I kind of finds his findings pointless.

He seems rather knowledgeable to me. Most reviews on Youtube are
extremely shallow while his are anything but. Pointless is hard to
figure. He pointed out a few weaknesses in the TS55 design, also
mentioned some strong points. And, he is somewhat entertaining while
doing it.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/6/18 8:24 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/5/2018 1:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules?Â* Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too.Â* He speaks my language too.Â* He likes Hilti tools I think.
Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price)Â* He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use
and abuse that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..

Pro's have also been using Harbor Freight junk, so what?

I'd bet you would be more likely to see the pros using HF than Festools.


Irrelevant to the context as to holding up to continuous use.
I would put good money on *any* Festool power tool lasting longer than
*any* HF power tool in side-by-side test.
Considering the price difference, it's not a difficult bet to make.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/5/2018 5:49 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 1:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/5/18 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
sites set on the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference
to enough to go from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90
day warranty for the Hercules?Â* Will anyone pay $399 for a HF
SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
means that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust
bag rather than in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy! I'm watching it, now.

Me too.Â* He speaks my language too.Â* He likes Hilti tools I think.
Â*Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price)Â* He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous
use and abuse that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..




Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
As a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really,
if I wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti
first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.Â* Seemed to pass
so I was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
Â*after watching him a few times, I believe him.


This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes
as possible.Â* Click bate.

Actually, I find him both entertaining and knowledgeable.Â* Not your
typical vapid haha type.
He obviously has a lot of education/knowledge of electrical and
mechanical engineering and knows a lot about plastics and metals
manufacturing.

I haven't found him to be a Festool basher.Â* He doesn't pull punches
where he sees a need to be critical, but he also doesn't "look for
reasons" to bash something.
IIRC, he was concerned about one bearing on the saw, but he was also
very impressed with the Festool casting and machining and took a lot of
time to point it out and offered many compliments.


Regardless of his findings of materials used, the tools hold up,
extremely well.

Compared to what?Â* A high priced Hilti or a 1/10th priced HF?

Compared to it not holding up well. I have yet to have one need to be
serviced yet or break down. Can't say that for my PC, Bosch, DeWalt tools.




His opinion seems to be, based on tearing down tools to see what they
are made of, is that the Festool is a nice tool, but you _don't_ get
what you pay for, and the Hilti is a great tool, but you _do_ get what
you pay for. Also, he said Festool seems designed for the occasional
user that is not going to use and abuse the tool, like a homeowner. Not
good for continuous use and abuse, like a contractor.

My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
dude rancher.


And for you and your needs both brands are probably over kill. For me
not so much.




I personally could care less what the materials are
made up of if the tool does what it is suppose to do and for years on
end.Â* I kind of finds his findings pointless.

He seems rather knowledgeable to me. Most reviews on Youtube are
extremely shallow while his are anything but. Pointless is hard to
figure.Â* He pointed out a few weaknesses in the TS55 design, also
mentioned some strong points. And, he is somewhat entertaining while
doing it.


I think knowledgeable with a bias against almost every thing he putters
with, including other brand acquisitions.

The whole point to his videos is to find something wrong with what ever
he disassembles. That is fine if you like to read something into that.

It does not matter what or how a tool is made, if it holds up and
performs well, that is all that matters.

I use my tools and do not sit back wondering if they will hold up or
not. Nor do I fear breaking them. I do not blindly assume Festool
makes nothing but perfection. I will tell you right up front that The
Festool parallel guides are a poor design and a PIA to use and they are
quite expensive.

I proceeded with caution when I purchased my Dust Extractor and Domino,
11 years ago, my first Festool tools. The Dust Extractor is operated
ever time I use my Domino, track saw, any of the 3 sanders, Kapex,
pocket hole jig, or for spot cleaning. The Domino has cut in excess of
10,000 mortises and the machine still operates and and looks new. The
original 5mm bit that has cut probably 9,000 of those mortises and still
cuts perfectly fine. I cannot tell you how many times I have dropped
all three of my Festool sanders and Festool drill onto my concrete
floor, not a problem.

How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
group. 90% of those projects were for customers.

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/5/2018 5:49 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 1:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/5/18 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
sites set on the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference
to enough to go from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90
day warranty for the Hercules?Â* Will anyone pay $399 for a HF
SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
means that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust
bag rather than in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy! I'm watching it, now.

Me too.Â* He speaks my language too.Â* He likes Hilti tools I think.
Â*Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price)Â* He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous
use and abuse that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..




Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
As a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really,
if I wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti
first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.Â* Seemed to pass
so I was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
Â*after watching him a few times, I believe him.


This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes
as possible.Â* Click bate.

Actually, I find him both entertaining and knowledgeable.Â* Not your
typical vapid haha type.
He obviously has a lot of education/knowledge of electrical and
mechanical engineering and knows a lot about plastics and metals
manufacturing.

I haven't found him to be a Festool basher.Â* He doesn't pull punches
where he sees a need to be critical, but he also doesn't "look for
reasons" to bash something.
IIRC, he was concerned about one bearing on the saw, but he was also
very impressed with the Festool casting and machining and took a lot of
time to point it out and offered many compliments.


Regardless of his findings of materials used, the tools hold up,
extremely well.

Compared to what?Â* A high priced Hilti or a 1/10th priced HF?

Compared to it not holding up well. I have yet to have one need to be
serviced yet or break down. Can't say that for my PC, Bosch, DeWalt tools.




His opinion seems to be, based on tearing down tools to see what they
are made of, is that the Festool is a nice tool, but you _don't_ get
what you pay for, and the Hilti is a great tool, but you _do_ get what
you pay for. Also, he said Festool seems designed for the occasional
user that is not going to use and abuse the tool, like a homeowner. Not
good for continuous use and abuse, like a contractor.

My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
dude rancher.


And for you and your needs both brands are probably over kill. For me
not so much.




I personally could care less what the materials are
made up of if the tool does what it is suppose to do and for years on
end.Â* I kind of finds his findings pointless.

He seems rather knowledgeable to me. Most reviews on Youtube are
extremely shallow while his are anything but. Pointless is hard to
figure.Â* He pointed out a few weaknesses in the TS55 design, also
mentioned some strong points. And, he is somewhat entertaining while
doing it.


I think knowledgeable with a bias against almost every thing he putters
with, including other brand acquisitions.

The whole point to his videos is to find something wrong with what ever
he disassembles. That is fine if you like to read something into that.

It does not matter what or how a tool is made, if it holds up and
performs well, that is all that matters.

I use my tools and do not sit back wondering if they will hold up or
not. Nor do I fear breaking them. I do not blindly assume Festool
makes nothing but perfection. I will tell you right up front that The
Festool parallel guides are a poor design and a PIA to use and they are
quite expensive.

I proceeded with caution when I purchased my Dust Extractor and Domino,
11 years ago, my first Festool tools. The Dust Extractor is operated
ever time I use my Domino, track saw, any of the 3 sanders, Kapex,
pocket hole jig, or for spot cleaning. The Domino has cut in excess of
10,000 mortises and the machine still operates and and looks new. The
original 5mm bit that has cut probably 9,000 of those mortises and still
cuts perfectly fine. I cannot tell you how many times I have dropped
all three of my Festool sanders and Festool drill onto my concrete
floor, not a problem.

How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
group. 90% of those projects were for customers.

Hey dude, where's your ranch? ;-)

On 3/6/2018 5:09 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/5/2018 5:49 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 1:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/5/18 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
sites set on the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference
to enough to go from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90
day warranty for the Hercules?Â* Will anyone pay $399 for a HF
SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
means that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust
bag rather than in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy! I'm watching it, now.

Me too.Â* He speaks my language too.Â* He likes Hilti tools I think.
Â*Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price)Â* He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous
use and abuse that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..




Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
As a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really,
if I wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti
first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.Â* Seemed to pass
so I was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
Â*after watching him a few times, I believe him.


This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes
as possible.Â* Click bate.

Actually, I find him both entertaining and knowledgeable.Â* Not your
typical vapid haha type.
He obviously has a lot of education/knowledge of electrical and
mechanical engineering and knows a lot about plastics and metals
manufacturing.

I haven't found him to be a Festool basher.Â* He doesn't pull punches
where he sees a need to be critical, but he also doesn't "look for
reasons" to bash something.
IIRC, he was concerned about one bearing on the saw, but he was also
very impressed with the Festool casting and machining and took a lot of
time to point it out and offered many compliments.


Regardless of his findings of materials used, the tools hold up,
extremely well.

Compared to what?Â* A high priced Hilti or a 1/10th priced HF?

Compared to it not holding up well. I have yet to have one need to be
serviced yet or break down. Can't say that for my PC, Bosch, DeWalt tools.




His opinion seems to be, based on tearing down tools to see what they
are made of, is that the Festool is a nice tool, but you _don't_ get
what you pay for, and the Hilti is a great tool, but you _do_ get what
you pay for. Also, he said Festool seems designed for the occasional
user that is not going to use and abuse the tool, like a homeowner. Not
good for continuous use and abuse, like a contractor.

My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
dude rancher.


And for you and your needs both brands are probably over kill. For me
not so much.




I personally could care less what the materials are
made up of if the tool does what it is suppose to do and for years on
end.Â* I kind of finds his findings pointless.

He seems rather knowledgeable to me. Most reviews on Youtube are
extremely shallow while his are anything but. Pointless is hard to
figure.Â* He pointed out a few weaknesses in the TS55 design, also
mentioned some strong points. And, he is somewhat entertaining while
doing it.


I think knowledgeable with a bias against almost every thing he putters
with, including other brand acquisitions.

The whole point to his videos is to find something wrong with what ever
he disassembles. That is fine if you like to read something into that.

It does not matter what or how a tool is made, if it holds up and
performs well, that is all that matters.

I use my tools and do not sit back wondering if they will hold up or
not. Nor do I fear breaking them. I do not blindly assume Festool
makes nothing but perfection. I will tell you right up front that The
Festool parallel guides are a poor design and a PIA to use and they are
quite expensive.

I proceeded with caution when I purchased my Dust Extractor and Domino,
11 years ago, my first Festool tools. The Dust Extractor is operated
ever time I use my Domino, track saw, any of the 3 sanders, Kapex,
pocket hole jig, or for spot cleaning. The Domino has cut in excess of
10,000 mortises and the machine still operates and and looks new. The
original 5mm bit that has cut probably 9,000 of those mortises and still
cuts perfectly fine. I cannot tell you how many times I have dropped
all three of my Festool sanders and Festool drill onto my concrete
floor, not a problem.

How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
group. 90% of those projects were for customers.

Hey dude, where's your ranch? ;-)




Eggsactly!

On another note, I noticed that Festool has, well on April 2, will be
coming out with a Granet NET sanding disk with intermediate pad.

https://www.festoolusa.com/power-too...=sysnotes_mar2

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 6:18:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 5:09 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:

....snip...


My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
dude rancher.

....snip...

How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
group. 90% of those projects were for customers.

Hey dude, where's your ranch? ;-)




Eggsactly!

On another note, I noticed that Festool has, well on April 2, will be
coming out with a Granet NET sanding disk with intermediate pad.

https://www.festoolusa.com/power-too...=sysnotes_mar2

Ya know, you could do us (me!) a big favor and try a pack of the Diablo
SandNet discs.

You've tried sand nets that you didn't like and you have found sanding disks
that you do like, so you would be the perfect tester for the Diablo product.

I don't have enough experience to do a good comparison and might not even be
able to put the choices through their paces correctly.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-5...H10I/301439869

Let us know how you like them. ;-)

On 3/6/2018 5:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 6:18:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 5:09 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:

...snip...


My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
dude rancher.

...snip...

How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
group. 90% of those projects were for customers.

Hey dude, where's your ranch? ;-)




Eggsactly!

On another note, I noticed that Festool has, well on April 2, will be
coming out with a Granet NET sanding disk with intermediate pad.

https://www.festoolusa.com/power-too...=sysnotes_mar2

Ya know, you could do us (me!) a big favor and try a pack of the Diablo
SandNet discs.

Sure, send them down. ;~)




You've tried sand nets that you didn't like and you have found sanding disks
that you do like, so you would be the perfect tester for the Diablo product.

I think the big issue with me is that I sand narrow face frames and the
foam intermediate pad allows the net to compress over the face frame and
that adds more stress to the net. IIRC I had no issue when sanding wide
open flat spots but when the edge of the net went over an edge I had
problems.

The paper sand paper has more reinforcement backing from the sander pad.


I don't have enough experience to do a good comparison and might not even be
able to put the choices through their paces correctly.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-5...H10I/301439869

Let us know how you like them. ;-)

On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 7:35:46 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 5:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 6:18:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 5:09 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:

...snip...


My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
dude rancher.

...snip...

How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
group. 90% of those projects were for customers.

Hey dude, where's your ranch? ;-)




Eggsactly!

On another note, I noticed that Festool has, well on April 2, will be
coming out with a Granet NET sanding disk with intermediate pad.

https://www.festoolusa.com/power-too...=sysnotes_mar2

Ya know, you could do us (me!) a big favor and try a pack of the Diablo
SandNet discs.

Sure, send them down. ;~)




You've tried sand nets that you didn't like and you have found sanding disks
that you do like, so you would be the perfect tester for the Diablo product.

I think the big issue with me is that I sand narrow face frames and the
foam intermediate pad allows the net to compress over the face frame and
that adds more stress to the net. IIRC I had no issue when sanding wide
open flat spots but when the edge of the net went over an edge I had
problems.

That's exactly why I want you to try the Diablo discs. I've done the *edges*
of 3/4" stock, 2" face frames, etc. and never even came close to tearing a
disc. I even rounded edges (purposely) on rough work, just to knock the sharp
off.

You know you are not supposed to stand on the sander while using it right? Let
the tool do the work. ;-)


The paper sand paper has more reinforcement backing from the sander pad.


I don't have enough experience to do a good comparison and might not even be
able to put the choices through their paces correctly.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-5...H10I/301439869

Let us know how you like them. ;-)

If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool for almost all my needs. And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job site when needed. The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills. Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent brushless models) for me to buy something else.

I have multiples of all the tools I use, and most are of different models from different manufacturers. Over the last 40 years of doing this as a contractor for myself I look for value, durability, and repeatability in use. NO manufacturer makes all their tools in all their models to that standard.. I have had DeWalt tools that are garbage. Had DeWalt tools that are great. Bosch has a pretty good track record with me and their oscillating tool, the old American made circulars saws were great. PC was a good brand, never great, but they turned out some real crap and have now fallen off the radar. Makita? Depends on what you are buying. The list goes on.

Festool, and probably Fein are the only commonly available tool that you can buy with complete confidence. For those that take care of their tools and rely on them to make their living, I think in most cases Festool is unmatched. Personally, I say all that bull**** about "contractor rated" or "full time use" and all the other marketing crap is just that. I watch some of the videos out there and always remember that 99% of the uploaders don't actually use their tools to make a living. They use the videos to supplement their income so it is important to say or do something that attracts attention to their videos for the almighty "click".

I first saw the Festool track saw in use when visiting Swingman and Leon. Swing took out the saw and showed me the setup, cut a piece of plywood, and we talked about the strong points and weak points. For those of us that know Swing (bless his heart), he is blunt and proud of his opinions. He was enormously impressed with the track saw, and after seeing it in use and its ease of setup, I was too. The cuts would rival or exceed most table saws, and the blade should (literally) last for years.

Leon's opinions concur, and again, having seen the saw, the setup and the final product I think it is a winner. If I needed a track saw, I would get that one.

So why don't I have all Festool? What is the place of Harbor Freight and other discount tools? Employees that don't take care of your tools as you do, employees that don't know how to use tools correctly, the very real possibility of job site theft, and for almost all the needs on a construction site there is no need for the kind of quality work that their tools are capable of doing.

Comparing HF, or others to Festool has to be with a grain of salt. I only know of two other contractors that use Festool out in the field (and one loves those damn drills) and neither of them have ever had a failure. One is a cabinet installer that specialized in remodeling projects, so Festool's Kapex miter saw and his dust collector is his weapon of choice. He is one of the very few craftsmen I trust, and he tells me that the Kapex is as accurate now as it was 5 years ago when he bought it, used over countless jobs.. So what is "job site rated" or the opinion it might not stand up to long term use worth? Festool seems to do just fine with full time professional use. He has small Festool track saw at his shop and since he hates the mess of his table saw, uses it for all his "one off" cabinet builds, from carcass to shelving, not just breaking down sheet goods.

HF tools have their place. Good for rough work, some good for rough treatment, and the thought that you live with varying quality depending on the tool. No real tears when you see them thrown in the bed of the truck for transport, when one of your idiots is using your miter saw to cut job site trash into smaller chunks, and no real fear of lending them to a worker to finish up a job, and no undue screaming at your workers when they leave them out in the rain while they huddle under the eaves of a roof so THEY don't get wet. They are adequate and affordable. They have their place.

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid. One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying, "man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

Don't get this one...

Robert

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 7:35:46 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 5:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 6:18:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 5:09 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:

...snip...


My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
dude rancher.

...snip...

How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
group. 90% of those projects were for customers.

Hey dude, where's your ranch? ;-)




Eggsactly!

On another note, I noticed that Festool has, well on April 2, will be
coming out with a Granet NET sanding disk with intermediate pad.

https://www.festoolusa.com/power-too...=sysnotes_mar2

Ya know, you could do us (me!) a big favor and try a pack of the Diablo
SandNet discs.

Sure, send them down. ;~)




You've tried sand nets that you didn't like and you have found sanding disks
that you do like, so you would be the perfect tester for the Diablo product.

I think the big issue with me is that I sand narrow face frames and the
foam intermediate pad allows the net to compress over the face frame and
that adds more stress to the net. IIRC I had no issue when sanding wide
open flat spots but when the edge of the net went over an edge I had
problems.

That's exactly why I want you to try the Diablo discs. I've done the *edges*
of 3/4" stock, 2" face frames, etc. and never even came close to tearing a
disc. I even rounded edges (purposely) on rough work, just to knock the sharp
off.

You know you are not supposed to stand on the sander while using it right? Let
the tool do the work. ;-)


The paper sand paper has more reinforcement backing from the sander pad.


I don't have enough experience to do a good comparison and might not even be
able to put the choices through their paces correctly.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-5...H10I/301439869

Let us know how you like them. ;-)




I just might give it a try. It would be a favor to you. :-)

wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool for
almost all my needs. And yes, under those conditions I would take them
out to a job site when needed. The only tool I wouldn't buy that they
make is their drills. Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty
(and recent brushless models) for me to buy something else.

I have multiples of all the tools I use, and most are of different models
from different manufacturers. Over the last 40 years of doing this as a
contractor for myself I look for value, durability, and repeatability in
use. NO manufacturer makes all their tools in all their models to that
standard. I have had DeWalt tools that are garbage. Had DeWalt tools
that are great. Bosch has a pretty good track record with me and their
oscillating tool, the old American made circulars saws were great. PC
was a good brand, never great, but they turned out some real crap and
have now fallen off the radar. Makita? Depends on what you are buying. The list goes on.

Festool, and probably Fein are the only commonly available tool that you
can buy with complete confidence. For those that take care of their
tools and rely on them to make their living, I think in most cases
Festool is unmatched. Personally, I say all that bull**** about
"contractor rated" or "full time use" and all the other marketing crap is
just that. I watch some of the videos out there and always remember that
99% of the uploaders don't actually use their tools to make a living.
They use the videos to supplement their income so it is important to say
or do something that attracts attention to their videos for the almighty "click".

I first saw the Festool track saw in use when visiting Swingman and Leon.
Swing took out the saw and showed me the setup, cut a piece of plywood,
and we talked about the strong points and weak points. For those of us
that know Swing (bless his heart), he is blunt and proud of his opinions.
He was enormously impressed with the track saw, and after seeing it in
use and its ease of setup, I was too. The cuts would rival or exceed most
table saws, and the blade should (literally) last for years.




Bless His Heart!

On 3/6/2018 9:46 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 8:24 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/5/2018 1:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites
set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think.
Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price) He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use
and abuse that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..

Pro's have also been using Harbor Freight junk, so what?

I don't know, so what. He said that the TS55 is not designed for
continuous use. He has no evidence that they will not work as well as
another brand with regard to function or longevity. And years of, in
the field use, has proven that.


I'd bet you would be more likely to see the pros using HF than Festools.

Yeah, so what?

Exactly!


Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As
a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I
wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
after watching him a few times, I believe him.


This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes as
possible. Click bate.





--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/6/2018 10:25 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/6/18 8:24 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/5/2018 1:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites
set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think.
Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price) He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use
and abuse that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..

Pro's have also been using Harbor Freight junk, so what?

I'd bet you would be more likely to see the pros using HF than Festools.


Irrelevant to the context as to holding up to continuous use.
I would put good money on *any* Festool power tool lasting longer than
*any* HF power tool in side-by-side test.
Considering the price difference, it's not a difficult bet to make.

The point of course is just because some pro somewhere uses a festering
tool does not prove anything because pro's (more of them probably) also
use HF tools. That doesn't mean HF tools are super durable any more than
it proves festering tools are. AVE's review indicates festering tools
are good, but has a number of surprising weaknesses, considering the cost.


--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/6/2018 12:25 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/5/2018 5:49 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 1:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/5/18 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
sites set on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference
to enough to go from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90
day warranty for the Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF
SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
means that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust
bag rather than in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy! I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think.
Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price) He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous
use and abuse that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..




Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
As a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really,
if I wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti
first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass
so I was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
after watching him a few times, I believe him.


This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes
as possible. Click bate.

Actually, I find him both entertaining and knowledgeable. Not your
typical vapid haha type.
He obviously has a lot of education/knowledge of electrical and
mechanical engineering and knows a lot about plastics and metals
manufacturing.

I haven't found him to be a Festool basher. He doesn't pull punches
where he sees a need to be critical, but he also doesn't "look for
reasons" to bash something.
IIRC, he was concerned about one bearing on the saw, but he was also
very impressed with the Festool casting and machining and took a lot of
time to point it out and offered many compliments.


Regardless of his findings of materials used, the tools hold up,
extremely well.

Compared to what? A high priced Hilti or a 1/10th priced HF?

Compared to it not holding up well. I have yet to have one need to be
serviced yet or break down. Can't say that for my PC, Bosch, DeWalt tools.




His opinion seems to be, based on tearing down tools to see what they
are made of, is that the Festool is a nice tool, but you _don't_ get
what you pay for, and the Hilti is a great tool, but you _do_ get what
you pay for. Also, he said Festool seems designed for the occasional
user that is not going to use and abuse the tool, like a homeowner.
Not good for continuous use and abuse, like a contractor.

My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth
_needs_ to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems
to be the dude rancher.


And for you and your needs both brands are probably over kill. For me
not so much.




I personally could care less what the materials are
made up of if the tool does what it is suppose to do and for years on
end. I kind of finds his findings pointless.

He seems rather knowledgeable to me. Most reviews on Youtube are
extremely shallow while his are anything but. Pointless is hard to
figure. He pointed out a few weaknesses in the TS55 design, also
mentioned some strong points. And, he is somewhat entertaining while
doing it.


I think knowledgeable with a bias against almost every thing he putters
with, including other brand acquisitions.

He looks for weaknesses, that is the purpose of his reviews. He always
points out exactly why he considers it a weakness and the potential for
failure. This tends to **** off manufacturers that design in weaknesses
and know exactly where they are, and about when they will fail. That is
seems to **** you off is interesting.

The whole point to his videos is to find something wrong with what ever
he disassembles. That is fine if you like to read something into that.

Actually that is false. His review of Hilti drill and Kitchen Aid Mixer
were both fine. In fact, his review of this festering saw was quite
good, and he specifically pointed out what surprised him and what he
thought would have been better. This seems to have royally got your
panties in a bunch.

It does not matter what or how a tool is made, if it holds up and
performs well, that is all that matters.

Which is determined by how it is made.

I use my tools and do not sit back wondering if they will hold up or
not. Nor do I fear breaking them. I do not blindly assume Festool
makes nothing but perfection. I will tell you right up front that The
Festool parallel guides are a poor design and a PIA to use and they are
quite expensive.

I proceeded with caution when I purchased my Dust Extractor and Domino,
11 years ago, my first Festool tools. The Dust Extractor is operated
ever time I use my Domino, track saw, any of the 3 sanders, Kapex,
pocket hole jig, or for spot cleaning. The Domino has cut in excess of
10,000 mortises and the machine still operates and and looks new. The
original 5mm bit that has cut probably 9,000 of those mortises and still
cuts perfectly fine. I cannot tell you how many times I have dropped
all three of my Festool sanders and Festool drill onto my concrete
floor, not a problem.

How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
group. 90% of those projects were for customers.

He said they are good tools for the home shop where a few items are
made. You seem to make less than 12 things a year. This is
intermittent use and exactly what AVe would expect.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/6/2018 6:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 6:18:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 5:09 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:

...snip...


My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
dude rancher.

...snip...

How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
group. 90% of those projects were for customers.

Hey dude, where's your ranch? ;-)




Eggsactly!

On another note, I noticed that Festool has, well on April 2, will be
coming out with a Granet NET sanding disk with intermediate pad.

https://www.festoolusa.com/power-too...=sysnotes_mar2

Ya know, you could do us (me!) a big favor and try a pack of the Diablo
SandNet discs.

You've tried sand nets that you didn't like and you have found sanding disks
that you do like, so you would be the perfect tester for the Diablo product.

I don't have enough experience to do a good comparison and might not even be
able to put the choices through their paces correctly.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-5...H10I/301439869

Let us know how you like them. ;-)

Reading the reviews at homedepot.

One guy said they lasted less than a minute and showed pictures of 2
totally destroyed discs... Probably a festering tool employee.

Another guy said they did not appear to be made of sand... Probably a
dude rancher...

Another said they were the best things ever made... probably not AVe...

I was going to try them, until I read these reviews, and remembered I
have enough sanding discs to last me well past my life expectancy in the
shop...

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

That's exactly what I think as well...
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/6/2018 9:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool for almost all my needs. And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job site when needed. The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills. Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent brushless models) for me to buy something else.

I have multiples of all the tools I use, and most are of different models from different manufacturers. Over the last 40 years of doing this as a contractor for myself I look for value, durability, and repeatability in use. NO manufacturer makes all their tools in all their models to that standard. I have had DeWalt tools that are garbage. Had DeWalt tools that are great. Bosch has a pretty good track record with me and their oscillating tool, the old American made circulars saws were great. PC was a good brand, never great, but they turned out some real crap and have now fallen off the radar. Makita? Depends on what you are buying. The list goes on.

Festool, and probably Fein are the only commonly available tool that you can buy with complete confidence. For those that take care of their tools and rely on them to make their living, I think in most cases Festool is unmatched. Personally, I say all that bull**** about "contractor rated" or "full time use" and all the other marketing crap is just that. I watch some of the videos out there and always remember that 99% of the uploaders don't actually use their tools to make a living. They use the videos to supplement their income so it is important to say or do something that attracts attention to their videos for the almighty "click".

I first saw the Festool track saw in use when visiting Swingman and Leon. Swing took out the saw and showed me the setup, cut a piece of plywood, and we talked about the strong points and weak points. For those of us that know Swing (bless his heart), he is blunt and proud of his opinions. He was enormously impressed with the track saw, and after seeing it in use and its ease of setup, I was too. The cuts would rival or exceed most table saws, and the blade should (literally) last for years.

Leon's opinions concur, and again, having seen the saw, the setup and the final product I think it is a winner. If I needed a track saw, I would get that one.

So why don't I have all Festool? What is the place of Harbor Freight and other discount tools? Employees that don't take care of your tools as you do, employees that don't know how to use tools correctly, the very real possibility of job site theft, and for almost all the needs on a construction site there is no need for the kind of quality work that their tools are capable of doing.

Comparing HF, or others to Festool has to be with a grain of salt. I only know of two other contractors that use Festool out in the field (and one loves those damn drills) and neither of them have ever had a failure. One is a cabinet installer that specialized in remodeling projects, so Festool's Kapex miter saw and his dust collector is his weapon of choice. He is one of the very few craftsmen I trust, and he tells me that the Kapex is as accurate now as it was 5 years ago when he bought it, used over countless jobs. So what is "job site rated" or the opinion it might not stand up to long term use worth? Festool seems to do just fine with full time professional use. He has small Festool track saw at his shop and since he hates the mess of his table saw, uses it for all his "one off" cabinet builds, from carcass to shelving, not just breaking down sheet goods.

HF tools have their place. Good for rough work, some good for rough treatment, and the thought that you live with varying quality depending on the tool. No real tears when you see them thrown in the bed of the truck for transport, when one of your idiots is using your miter saw to cut job site trash into smaller chunks, and no real fear of lending them to a worker to finish up a job, and no undue screaming at your workers when they leave them out in the rain while they huddle under the eaves of a roof so THEY don't get wet. They are adequate and affordable. They have their place.

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid. One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying, "man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

Don't get this one...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even) that
uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools designed to
last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are balls to
the wall best tools ever made...


--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/7/2018 8:02 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/6/2018 10:25 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/6/18 8:24 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/5/2018 1:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites
set
on the DeWalt DWS780.Â* But is the price difference to enough to go
from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
Hercules?Â* Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU

And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather
than
in the bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.


Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.

Me too.Â* He speaks my language too.Â* He likes Hilti tools I think.
Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
price)Â* He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use
and abuse that a contractor would need.

And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..

Pro's have also been using Harbor Freight junk, so what?

I'd bet you would be more likely to see the pros using HF than Festools.


Irrelevant to the context as to holding up to continuous use.
I would put good money on *any* Festool power tool lasting longer than
*any* HF power tool in side-by-side test.
Considering the price difference, it's not a difficult bet to make.

The point of course is just because some pro somewhere uses a festering
tool does not prove anything because pro's (more of them probably) also
use HF tools. That doesn't mean HF tools are super durable any more than
it proves festering tools are.Â* AVE's review indicates festering tools
are good, but has a number of surprising weaknesses, considering the cost.



Jack, if some pro some where was the only one using Featool, like you
are painting the picture, Festool would not be in business.

Yes there are a lot of people that are not pro's that buy Festool these
days, they can afford the top end products whether they need them or
not. But Prior to about 12 years ago Festool, back some 50 or so years,
relied mostly on the pro.

It just so happens that they found that there was a market for people
that still wanted top quality tools and that also happened to be hobbyists.

I would say that I am some what of a pro, not full time pro, but I can
easily afford Festool products. And I cannot afford to build as much as
I do if I did not sell the vast majority of what I build. My material
costs far exceeds my tools costs. I have been seriously wood working
for 40 years and as a hobby since I was 10. I have a very good idea of
what brand tools to buy. FWIW many of my tool purchases, since I
bought my first Festool 11 years ago, have not been Festool. So you
can't say that I am one of the ignorant that believes that every tool
that a tool manufacturer makes is going to be top notch, that is just
not a reality. BUT I have yet to have to replace any of my Festool
tools which is not what I can say about any of the other brands that I
have bought. For certain the sanders have out lived my PC sanders by a
margin of 2 to 1, so far, and the Festool Sanders do more than my old PC
sanders.

As far as the click bait guy goes you can believe every thing he says
since you seem drawn to a person that uses words that you probably
cannot find in a dictionary. If you go to his YouTube videos and Click
on the Dirty Secrets of a $1000 saw, "you" and "I" have both been
victims of Click Bait. The saw in question costs no where near $1K,
Today years later after annual price increases, the saw sells for just
over half that price. I have the more expensive version and still paid
nowhere near $1K.

FWIW it is just as easy to correctly spell a tool name as make up a
derogatory name. Grow up, maybe you won't show your hand before you
say anything.

On 3/6/2018 8:32 PM, wrote:
If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool for almost all my needs. And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job site when needed. The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills. Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent brushless models) for me to buy something else.

FWIW if it were not for the high risk of theft and a worker not
respecting some one else's tool I believe we would see a lot more
Festool out there in the trades.

Snip

Festool, and probably Fein are the only commonly available tool that you can buy with complete confidence. For those that take care of their tools and rely on them to make their living, I think in most cases Festool is unmatched.

I am in the camp that believes that no one makes the best of everything.
But saying that and with several of my Festool brand tools being 10+
years old I agree that Festool probably comes closer to that utopia than
the majority. The Festool warranty used to be a factor for me but no
longer. I have not had to use their warranty so far. I certainly think
the Ridgid line of tools have the best in the industry warranty and
almost with with one of their drills 15 or so years ago. I ultimately
went with Makita, the Makita just felt better in my hand and was much
lighter weight that the Ridgid was back then.

Back to the Festool brand, Festool offers a 30 day money back guarantee,
no questions asked. That certainly is not exclusive to Festool but is
pretty much all the nudge I need to make the purchase. Because I have
yet to replace any of my Festools I am not so much concerned about it
holding up so much as to whether or not it will do what I expect.
Specifically, the last Festool sander that I bought I was not certain
that it was going to be helpful in eliminating the little circles you
often get. I in particular was having this issue when sanding cross
grain with RTS400 Festool sander. Yes sanding cross grain on face
frames happens when the rails and stiles meet. I do not often stain but
on this particular job the stain really brought out the circle issue.
Anyway I told the Woodcraft guys that was what I wanted to eliminate
with the new sander that Festool recently introduced. 30 minutes after
using that sander I knew it was a keeper.




Personally, I say all that bull**** about "contractor rated" or "full
time use" and all the other marketing crap is just that. I watch some
of the videos out there and always remember that 99% of the uploaders
don't actually use their tools to make a living. They use the videos to
supplement their income so it is important to say or do something that
attracts attention to their videos for the almighty "click".

I first saw the Festool track saw in use when visiting Swingman and Leon. Swing took out the saw and showed me the setup, cut a piece of plywood, and we talked about the strong points and weak points. For those of us that know Swing (bless his heart), he is blunt and proud of his opinions. He was enormously impressed with the track saw, and after seeing it in use and its ease of setup, I was too. The cuts would rival or exceed most table saws, and the blade should (literally) last for years.



Leon's opinions concur, and again, having seen the saw, the setup and the final product I think it is a winner. If I needed a track saw, I would get that one.

So why don't I have all Festool? What is the place of Harbor Freight and other discount tools? Employees that don't take care of your tools as you do, employees that don't know how to use tools correctly, the very real possibility of job site theft, and for almost all the needs on a construction site there is no need for the kind of quality work that their tools are capable of doing.

Comparing HF, or others to Festool has to be with a grain of salt. I only know of two other contractors that use Festool out in the field (and one loves those damn drills) and neither of them have ever had a failure. One is a cabinet installer that specialized in remodeling projects, so Festool's Kapex miter saw and his dust collector is his weapon of choice. He is one of the very few craftsmen I trust, and he tells me that the Kapex is as accurate now as it was 5 years ago when he bought it, used over countless jobs.

Good to know since mine was an indulgence purchase. And I have to say I
have used mine several times and it is great to know that the set up I
showed you is exactly what I wanted, in actual use and not just on
paper. The length stops are dead on accurate and very easy to flip out
of the way when needing to square up the ends of short boards and then
cut to length. And with long boards, with both wings up, I can simply
square one end of a long board, slide it down to the opposite side wing
stop and cut to length. Very well thought out.





So what is "job site rated" or the opinion it might not stand up to
long term use worth? Festool seems to do just fine with full time
professional use. He has small Festool track saw at his shop and since
he hates the mess of his table saw, uses it for all his "one off"
cabinet builds, from carcass to shelving, not just breaking down sheet
goods.

HF tools have their place. Good for rough work, some good for rough treatment, and the thought that you live with varying quality depending on the tool. No real tears when you see them thrown in the bed of the truck for transport, when one of your idiots is using your miter saw to cut job site trash into smaller chunks, and no real fear of lending them to a worker to finish up a job, and no undue screaming at your workers when they leave them out in the rain while they huddle under the eaves of a roof so THEY don't get wet. They are adequate and affordable. They have their place.

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid. One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying, "man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

Don't get this one...

Robert