Some of you may recall that I recently bought a Bosch CM10GD miter saw on
Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CM10GD-.../dp/B00G5R4E9A

I spent some quality time with it this weekend and it looks like it is
defective. I called Bosch tech support this morning and when I described
the problem, he said to return it and get a new one.

Here's the issue:

http://i.imgur.com/sGJYoVf.jpg

If I leave the head unit down until the blade stops, it leaves that mark.
Every time, every blade. I tried the Bosch 60 tooth blade that came with
the saw, I tried a Dewalt 60 tooth Fine Crosscutting blade and a tried a
Diablo 40 tooth General Purpose blade. Every time, every blade.

It was not leaving that mark during my initial testing, so something
obviously happened since then.

The tech suspects that the blade is wobbling. He suggested checking both the
inner and outer washers and the face of the head unit behind the inner washer.
If I don't see anything obvious (I don't) then it could be the bearings.

In any case, I'm still within the 30 day return period for Amazon, so I'm
going to call them tomorrow, get a return authorization and request a
replacement.

Sucks.

On 1/30/17 8:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Some of you may recall that I recently bought a Bosch CM10GD miter
saw on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CM10GD-.../dp/B00G5R4E9A

I spent some quality time with it this weekend and it looks like it
is defective. I called Bosch tech support this morning and when I
described the problem, he said to return it and get a new one.

Here's the issue:

http://i.imgur.com/sGJYoVf.jpg

If I leave the head unit down until the blade stops, it leaves that
mark. Every time, every blade. I tried the Bosch 60 tooth blade that
came with the saw, I tried a Dewalt 60 tooth Fine Crosscutting blade
and a tried a Diablo 40 tooth General Purpose blade. Every time,
every blade.

It was not leaving that mark during my initial testing, so something
obviously happened since then.

The tech suspects that the blade is wobbling. He suggested checking
both the inner and outer washers and the face of the head unit behind
the inner washer. If I don't see anything obvious (I don't) then it
could be the bearings.

In any case, I'm still within the 30 day return period for Amazon, so
I'm going to call them tomorrow, get a return authorization and
request a replacement.

Sucks.


That's too bad. I always wondered about the stability of that saw with
all those connections and travel in the arm.
You picture does point to simple blade wobble, however. The solution
would be to not stop the saw until you raise the blade. But that could
cause tear-out on the top and you really shouldn't have to deal with that
crap with a saw that costs that much.

Amazon has some pretty good customer service so you should be ok with a
return. Still sucks to have to deal with all that. For a saw that
costs that much, that is unacceptable.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 9:35:42 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/30/17 8:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Some of you may recall that I recently bought a Bosch CM10GD miter
saw on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CM10GD-.../dp/B00G5R4E9A

I spent some quality time with it this weekend and it looks like it
is defective. I called Bosch tech support this morning and when I
described the problem, he said to return it and get a new one.

Here's the issue:

http://i.imgur.com/sGJYoVf.jpg

If I leave the head unit down until the blade stops, it leaves that
mark. Every time, every blade. I tried the Bosch 60 tooth blade that
came with the saw, I tried a Dewalt 60 tooth Fine Crosscutting blade
and a tried a Diablo 40 tooth General Purpose blade. Every time,
every blade.

It was not leaving that mark during my initial testing, so something
obviously happened since then.

The tech suspects that the blade is wobbling. He suggested checking
both the inner and outer washers and the face of the head unit behind
the inner washer. If I don't see anything obvious (I don't) then it
could be the bearings.

In any case, I'm still within the 30 day return period for Amazon, so
I'm going to call them tomorrow, get a return authorization and
request a replacement.

Sucks.


That's too bad. I always wondered about the stability of that saw with
all those connections and travel in the arm.

I also asked the Bosch tech about side to side movement when the head unit
is extended as far as possible towards the user. I did notice some, but
had not measured it. He said that 1/32" is normal/acceptable, even a tiny
bit more. Anything approaching 1/16" is way too much. When I got home I
measured it with my standard 1/32" measuring device: A hotel key card. ;-)
The card was snug in the gap between the blade and the wood, so it's right
at 1/32".


You picture does point to simple blade wobble, however. The solution
would be to not stop the saw until you raise the blade. But that could
cause tear-out on the top and you really shouldn't have to deal with that
crap with a saw that costs that much.

Amazon has some pretty good customer service so you should be ok with a
return. Still sucks to have to deal with all that. For a saw that
costs that much, that is unacceptable.


I agree.

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 9:14:30 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 9:35:42 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/30/17 8:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Some of you may recall that I recently bought a Bosch CM10GD miter
saw on Amazon.

I spent some quality time with it this weekend and it looks like it
is defective.

Bummer! BTW, the board(s) you cut... quality time test cut(s) or what's the new project? That board doesn't look like scrap.

Sonny

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 11:03:34 PM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 9:14:30 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 9:35:42 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/30/17 8:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Some of you may recall that I recently bought a Bosch CM10GD miter
saw on Amazon.

I spent some quality time with it this weekend and it looks like it
is defective.

Bummer! BTW, the board(s) you cut... quality time test cut(s) or what's the new project? That board doesn't look like scrap.

Sonny

Well, considering that the board was bought at Home Depot and required the hold-down
clamp to flatten it against the saw's table, it is definitely scrap.

The "project" is to test various techniques for applying MinWax Navy Blue stain. My sister asked
me to assemble and finish a Secretary's Desk kit that she bought. I needed a pine board that
matched the wood used for the desk. For $10 I got a 4 1 x 12 that I could not only get a bunch
of test pieces from, but I could also test the full range of the new saw.

On 1/30/2017 11:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Well, considering that the board was bought at Home Depot and required the hold-down
clamp to flatten it against the saw's table, it is definitely scrap.


So is it the saw or the board that is the problem? Could the board be
moving once the blade stops? Have you tried a different board?

I wonder of the force of the rotating blade is causing some stress that
causes it to move during the cut.

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 6:05:25 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/30/2017 11:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Well, considering that the board was bought at Home Depot and required the hold-down
clamp to flatten it against the saw's table, it is definitely scrap.


So is it the saw or the board that is the problem? Could the board be
moving once the blade stops? Have you tried a different board?

I wonder of the force of the rotating blade is causing some stress that
causes it to move during the cut.

I'm going to stop and pick up a perfectly flat 1x12 later today. There's a lumber yard near
my work where I can get good wood.

I don't think the board is moving because it is clamped to the table to keep it flat. It's the
clamped side that's showing the groove. I'll test a few more things and removing the
possibility of the board causing the problem is my next step.

"Sonny" wrote in message
...
On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 9:14:30 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 9:35:42 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/30/17 8:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Some of you may recall that I recently bought a Bosch CM10GD miter
saw on Amazon.

I spent some quality time with it this weekend and it looks like it
is defective.

Bummer! BTW, the board(s) you cut... quality time test cut(s) or what's
the new project? That board doesn't look like scrap.

New Zealand Radiata pine? A few years back I built a whole bathroom of
cabinets with it. Home Depot carries it.

Dave in SoTex

On 1/31/2017 7:01 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 6:05:25 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/30/2017 11:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Well, considering that the board was bought at Home Depot and required the hold-down
clamp to flatten it against the saw's table, it is definitely scrap.


So is it the saw or the board that is the problem? Could the board be
moving once the blade stops? Have you tried a different board?

I wonder of the force of the rotating blade is causing some stress that
causes it to move during the cut.

I'm going to stop and pick up a perfectly flat 1x12 later today. There's a lumber yard near
my work where I can get good wood.

I don't think the board is moving because it is clamped to the table to keep it flat. It's the
clamped side that's showing the groove. I'll test a few more things and removing the
possibility of the board causing the problem is my next step.





A piece of MDF or plywood should work if you have a scrap laying around.

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 10:09:31 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/31/2017 7:01 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 6:05:25 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/30/2017 11:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Well, considering that the board was bought at Home Depot and required the hold-down
clamp to flatten it against the saw's table, it is definitely scrap.


So is it the saw or the board that is the problem? Could the board be
moving once the blade stops? Have you tried a different board?

I wonder of the force of the rotating blade is causing some stress that
causes it to move during the cut.

I'm going to stop and pick up a perfectly flat 1x12 later today. There's a lumber yard near
my work where I can get good wood.

I don't think the board is moving because it is clamped to the table to keep it flat. It's the
clamped side that's showing the groove. I'll test a few more things and removing the
possibility of the board causing the problem is my next step.





A piece of MDF or plywood should work if you have a scrap laying around.

I do have some 1/2" MDF out in the shed that might work. I need to make sure that it is at least
as wide as it needs to be to require a sliding cut so that the teeth end up against the end of
the board after the cut.

I don't recall how wide the cutoffs are. I guess I could use a spacer but I don't want add another
variable.

Thanks for the suggestion.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

Some of you may recall that I recently bought a Bosch CM10GD miter saw on
Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CM10GD-.../dp/B00G5R4E9A

I spent some quality time with it this weekend and it looks like it is
defective. I called Bosch tech support this morning and when I described
the problem, he said to return it and get a new one.

Here's the issue:

http://i.imgur.com/sGJYoVf.jpg

That photo makes me wonder if there is end play in the arbor/shaft such that
under power the arbor/shaft and blade move away from the motor and then as
the blade comes to a rest they move back towards the motor.

I wonder this based on prior experience...

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 10:09:31 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/31/2017 7:01 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 6:05:25 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/30/2017 11:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Well, considering that the board was bought at Home Depot and required the hold-down
clamp to flatten it against the saw's table, it is definitely scrap.


So is it the saw or the board that is the problem? Could the board be
moving once the blade stops? Have you tried a different board?

I wonder of the force of the rotating blade is causing some stress that
causes it to move during the cut.

I'm going to stop and pick up a perfectly flat 1x12 later today. There's a lumber yard near
my work where I can get good wood.

I don't think the board is moving because it is clamped to the table to keep it flat. It's the
clamped side that's showing the groove. I'll test a few more things and removing the
possibility of the board causing the problem is my next step.





A piece of MDF or plywood should work if you have a scrap laying around.

It be the saw.

Here is the 1/2" MDF:

http://i.imgur.com/Sjicndm.jpg

I tried 2 different blades and I tried both with and without the hold
down clamp. The groove might be ever so slightly shallower without the
hold down clamp, but it's still there.

I also tried to eliminate user error by keeping some left-ward pressure
on the head unit throughout the entire cut. Theoretically, this should
have pulled the front of the blade away from the board, eliminating the
groove. As you can see, it did not.

The call goes into Amazon tomorrow.

Dammit!

On 1/31/2017 8:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

A piece of MDF or plywood should work if you have a scrap laying around.

It be the saw.

Here is the 1/2" MDF:

http://i.imgur.com/Sjicndm.jpg

I tried 2 different blades and I tried both with and without the hold
down clamp. The groove might be ever so slightly shallower without the
hold down clamp, but it's still there.

That sucks..I don't have a slider but is it common practice to stop the
blade while in the kerf?

On 1/31/17 9:25 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/31/2017 8:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

A piece of MDF or plywood should work if you have a scrap laying
around.

It be the saw.

Here is the 1/2" MDF:

http://i.imgur.com/Sjicndm.jpg

I tried 2 different blades and I tried both with and without the
hold down clamp. The groove might be ever so slightly shallower
without the hold down clamp, but it's still there.

That sucks..I don't have a slider but is it common practice to stop
the blade while in the kerf?


Sometimes when you pull the blade back out of a cut, it will pull some
fuzz up on the top of the cut, or chip the top veneer of plywood or
melamine. So, it's a valid technique to stop the blade "in the cut."

It shouldn't do what's happening in his pics... certainly not for 6 bills.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 10:25:49 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/31/2017 8:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

A piece of MDF or plywood should work if you have a scrap laying around.

It be the saw.

Here is the 1/2" MDF:

http://i.imgur.com/Sjicndm.jpg

I tried 2 different blades and I tried both with and without the hold
down clamp. The groove might be ever so slightly shallower without the
hold down clamp, but it's still there.

That sucks..I don't have a slider but is it common practice to stop the
blade while in the kerf?

Yes. You'll find comments like this all over the web and in most instruction
manuals:

"Tip #3: Stop before you lift.

After making a cut on your mitersaw, always allow the blade to stop spinning before lifting the saw. Prematurely raising it could score the end of your workpiece. The spinning blade could also snag the cutoff and dangerously propel it at a high speed."

"Wait Until the Blade Stops

Be honest: How many dangerous missiles have you launched from your miter saw? Weve all done it. Small cutoffs are the worst, of course. But its not rocket science to figure out how to ground them: Dont lift the blade until it stops. Make the cut, let go of the trigger and count to five. Thats not so hard, is it?"

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 11:24:23 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 10:25:49 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/31/2017 8:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

A piece of MDF or plywood should work if you have a scrap laying around.

It be the saw.

Here is the 1/2" MDF:

http://i.imgur.com/Sjicndm.jpg

I tried 2 different blades and I tried both with and without the hold
down clamp. The groove might be ever so slightly shallower without the
hold down clamp, but it's still there.

That sucks..I don't have a slider but is it common practice to stop the
blade while in the kerf?

Yes. You'll find comments like this all over the web and in most instruction
manuals:

"Tip #3: Stop before you lift.

After making a cut on your mitersaw, always allow the blade to stop spinning
before lifting the saw. Prematurely raising it could score the end of your
workpiece. The spinning blade could also snag the cutoff and dangerously
propel it at a high speed."

"Wait Until the Blade Stops

Be honest: How many dangerous missiles have you launched from your miter
saw? Weve all done it. Small cutoffs are the worst, of course. But its
not rocket science to figure out how to ground them: Dont lift the blade
until it stops. Make the cut, let go of the trigger and count to five.
Thats not so hard, is it?"

I should add that the above comments are not just for sliding miters. The
practice should be used with all miter saws.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

I should add that the above comments are not just for sliding miters. The
practice should be used with all miter saws.

....and use negative rake blades.

On 1/31/2017 8:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 10:09:31 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/31/2017 7:01 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 6:05:25 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/30/2017 11:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Well, considering that the board was bought at Home Depot and required the hold-down
clamp to flatten it against the saw's table, it is definitely scrap.


So is it the saw or the board that is the problem? Could the board be
moving once the blade stops? Have you tried a different board?

I wonder of the force of the rotating blade is causing some stress that
causes it to move during the cut.

I'm going to stop and pick up a perfectly flat 1x12 later today. There's a lumber yard near
my work where I can get good wood.

I don't think the board is moving because it is clamped to the table to keep it flat. It's the
clamped side that's showing the groove. I'll test a few more things and removing the
possibility of the board causing the problem is my next step.





A piece of MDF or plywood should work if you have a scrap laying around.

It be the saw.

Here is the 1/2" MDF:

http://i.imgur.com/Sjicndm.jpg

I tried 2 different blades and I tried both with and without the hold
down clamp. The groove might be ever so slightly shallower without the
hold down clamp, but it's still there.

I also tried to eliminate user error by keeping some left-ward pressure
on the head unit throughout the entire cut. Theoretically, this should
have pulled the front of the blade away from the board, eliminating the
groove. As you can see, it did not.

The call goes into Amazon tomorrow.

Dammit!

Blade brake pulling the blade or arbor shaft to the side?

On 1/31/2017 7:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 10:09:31 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/31/2017 7:01 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 6:05:25 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/30/2017 11:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Well, considering that the board was bought at Home Depot and required the hold-down
clamp to flatten it against the saw's table, it is definitely scrap.


So is it the saw or the board that is the problem? Could the board be
moving once the blade stops? Have you tried a different board?

I wonder of the force of the rotating blade is causing some stress that
causes it to move during the cut.

I'm going to stop and pick up a perfectly flat 1x12 later today. There's a lumber yard near
my work where I can get good wood.

I don't think the board is moving because it is clamped to the table to keep it flat. It's the
clamped side that's showing the groove. I'll test a few more things and removing the
possibility of the board causing the problem is my next step.





A piece of MDF or plywood should work if you have a scrap laying around.

It be the saw.

Here is the 1/2" MDF:

http://i.imgur.com/Sjicndm.jpg

I tried 2 different blades and I tried both with and without the hold
down clamp. The groove might be ever so slightly shallower without the
hold down clamp, but it's still there.

I also tried to eliminate user error by keeping some left-ward pressure
on the head unit throughout the entire cut. Theoretically, this should
have pulled the front of the blade away from the board, eliminating the
groove. As you can see, it did not.

The call goes into Amazon tomorrow.

Dammit!



Well that sucks. I would not give this particular saw a third chance...
Did you by any chance check the serial number or determine when it was
built? Wondering if this was one of the early ones that had issues.

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 at 10:36:25 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/31/2017 7:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 10:09:31 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/31/2017 7:01 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 6:05:25 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/30/2017 11:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Well, considering that the board was bought at Home Depot and required the hold-down
clamp to flatten it against the saw's table, it is definitely scrap.


So is it the saw or the board that is the problem? Could the board be
moving once the blade stops? Have you tried a different board?

I wonder of the force of the rotating blade is causing some stress that
causes it to move during the cut.

I'm going to stop and pick up a perfectly flat 1x12 later today. There's a lumber yard near
my work where I can get good wood.

I don't think the board is moving because it is clamped to the table to keep it flat. It's the
clamped side that's showing the groove. I'll test a few more things and removing the
possibility of the board causing the problem is my next step.





A piece of MDF or plywood should work if you have a scrap laying around.

It be the saw.

Here is the 1/2" MDF:

http://i.imgur.com/Sjicndm.jpg

I tried 2 different blades and I tried both with and without the hold
down clamp. The groove might be ever so slightly shallower without the
hold down clamp, but it's still there.

I also tried to eliminate user error by keeping some left-ward pressure
on the head unit throughout the entire cut. Theoretically, this should
have pulled the front of the blade away from the board, eliminating the
groove. As you can see, it did not.

The call goes into Amazon tomorrow.

Dammit!



Well that sucks. I would not give this particular saw a third chance...
Did you by any chance check the serial number or determine when it was
built? Wondering if this was one of the early ones that had issues.

I just spoke to Amazon. I have to give them props.

As in the past, it took less than a minute on hold to speak to a live person. After I explained
the situation and let her know that I wanted a replacement, she put me on hold for a few
minutes and when she came back she told that the return authorization will be sent via
email, the replacement saw should arrive on Friday and UPS will pick up the broken one
tomorrow.

It's supposed to be a busy weekend for me, but I'll set the saw up as soon as possible and
do some more testing. Stay tuned!

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 18:24:42 -0800 (PST)
DerbyDad03 wrote:

Some of you may recall that I recently bought a Bosch CM10GD miter

this the first year for that arm arrangement

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 at 2:33:26 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 18:24:42 -0800 (PST)
DerbyDad03 wrote:

Some of you may recall that I recently bought a Bosch CM10GD miter

this the first year for that arm arrangement

Do you know something we don't?

Is the arm arrangement different than what was used when the Bosch Axial
Glide system was introduced in 2010?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I10K3N-UCnY

On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 08:04:14 -0500, Larry Kraus wrote:

On 1/31/2017 8:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 10:09:31 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/31/2017 7:01 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 6:05:25 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/30/2017 11:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Well, considering that the board was bought at Home Depot and required the hold-down
clamp to flatten it against the saw's table, it is definitely scrap.


So is it the saw or the board that is the problem? Could the board be
moving once the blade stops? Have you tried a different board?

I wonder of the force of the rotating blade is causing some stress that
causes it to move during the cut.

I'm going to stop and pick up a perfectly flat 1x12 later today. There's a lumber yard near
my work where I can get good wood.

I don't think the board is moving because it is clamped to the table to keep it flat. It's the
clamped side that's showing the groove. I'll test a few more things and removing the
possibility of the board causing the problem is my next step.





A piece of MDF or plywood should work if you have a scrap laying around.

It be the saw.

Here is the 1/2" MDF:

http://i.imgur.com/Sjicndm.jpg

I tried 2 different blades and I tried both with and without the hold
down clamp. The groove might be ever so slightly shallower without the
hold down clamp, but it's still there.

I also tried to eliminate user error by keeping some left-ward pressure
on the head unit throughout the entire cut. Theoretically, this should
have pulled the front of the blade away from the board, eliminating the
groove. As you can see, it did not.

The call goes into Amazon tomorrow.

Dammit!

Blade brake pulling the blade or arbor shaft to the side?

The blade brake is the motor and the motor is offset, so this is a
possibility.

On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 08:17:26 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 at 10:36:25 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/31/2017 7:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 10:09:31 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/31/2017 7:01 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 6:05:25 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/30/2017 11:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Well, considering that the board was bought at Home Depot and required the hold-down
clamp to flatten it against the saw's table, it is definitely scrap.


So is it the saw or the board that is the problem? Could the board be
moving once the blade stops? Have you tried a different board?

I wonder of the force of the rotating blade is causing some stress that
causes it to move during the cut.

I'm going to stop and pick up a perfectly flat 1x12 later today. There's a lumber yard near
my work where I can get good wood.

I don't think the board is moving because it is clamped to the table to keep it flat. It's the
clamped side that's showing the groove. I'll test a few more things and removing the
possibility of the board causing the problem is my next step.





A piece of MDF or plywood should work if you have a scrap laying around.

It be the saw.

Here is the 1/2" MDF:

http://i.imgur.com/Sjicndm.jpg

I tried 2 different blades and I tried both with and without the hold
down clamp. The groove might be ever so slightly shallower without the
hold down clamp, but it's still there.

I also tried to eliminate user error by keeping some left-ward pressure
on the head unit throughout the entire cut. Theoretically, this should
have pulled the front of the blade away from the board, eliminating the
groove. As you can see, it did not.

The call goes into Amazon tomorrow.

Dammit!



Well that sucks. I would not give this particular saw a third chance...
Did you by any chance check the serial number or determine when it was
built? Wondering if this was one of the early ones that had issues.

I just spoke to Amazon. I have to give them props.

As in the past, it took less than a minute on hold to speak to a live person. After I explained
the situation and let her know that I wanted a replacement, she put me on hold for a few
minutes and when she came back she told that the return authorization will be sent via
email, the replacement saw should arrive on Friday and UPS will pick up the broken one
tomorrow.

It's supposed to be a busy weekend for me, but I'll set the saw up as soon as possible and
do some more testing. Stay tuned!

I bought my Unisaur from Amazon and also found them to be very
responsive.

On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 16:31:01 -0800 (PST)
DerbyDad03 wrote:

Is the arm arrangement different than what was used when the Bosch
Axial Glide system was introduced in 2010?

if it has been around that long than they should have gotten all the
issues out by now

first year models of anything can be a risk to buy

maybe they introduced some design change or maybe a new supplier
etc

On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 19:05:03 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 16:31:01 -0800 (PST)
DerbyDad03 wrote:

Is the arm arrangement different than what was used when the Bosch
Axial Glide system was introduced in 2010?

if it has been around that long than they should have gotten all the
issues out by now

first year models of anything can be a risk to buy

maybe they introduced some design change or maybe a new supplier
etc

Or maybe it's just a defective unit.

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 at 10:05:08 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 16:31:01 -0800 (PST)
DerbyDad03 wrote:

Is the arm arrangement different than what was used when the Bosch
Axial Glide system was introduced in 2010?

if it has been around that long than they should have gotten all the
issues out by now

first year models of anything can be a risk to buy

maybe they introduced some design change or maybe a new supplier
etc

Have you considered the possibility that the particular saw I received is simply defective?

I haven't read a single review that mentioned the specific issue that I am experiencing.

I'll report back once I set up the replacement saw, hopefully this weekend.

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 at 9:26:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 08:17:26 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

I just spoke to Amazon. I have to give them props.

As in the past, it took less than a minute on hold to speak to a live person. After I explained
the situation and let her know that I wanted a replacement, she put me on hold for a few
minutes and when she came back she told that the return authorization will be sent via
email, the replacement saw should arrive on Friday and UPS will pick up the broken one
tomorrow.

It's supposed to be a busy weekend for me, but I'll set the saw up as soon as possible and
do some more testing. Stay tuned!

I bought my Unisaur from Amazon and also found them to be very
responsive.

Did you purchase Turtlepuss or Needlenose? ;-)

http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Unisaurs

On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 19:18:32 -0800 (PST)
DerbyDad03 wrote:

Have you considered the possibility that the particular saw I
received is simply defective?

anything is possible but that is always the case

my curiosity is toward manufacturing defects

with the advent of cad and cam it is more interesting as the processes
have much better visibility

possible that the unit had rough handling after assembly

maybe during packing

although knew a guy that worked at a bosch plant

he avoided buying bosch products after that experience

so stuff happens but perceptions are carefully managed and prices
are priced accordingly

Not every piece of manufactured goods comes out of the box correct. I had a 10" single bevel MS that did that, and man you should have seen how it acted up on bevels. Regardless, if the saw will only hold to 1/32", you are doing the right thing to send it back.

I sent my back, too. I cut 5 1/2" wide pieces of cab ply to true it after that was discovered, and I did everything I could think of. Reoriented the blade, put the keeper nut on in a different rotation when tightening, etc.

Finally I wired the blade guard back and held a pencil next to the teeth and rotated it slowly with the blade tightened on the shaft. Where the blade touched the tip of a tooth (actually it was two), I marked it. Loosened the blade, rotated it 90 degrees, and the marks when right along with the new orientation. Local DeWalt repair shop told me that he didn't know if the inside collet was pressed onto the shaft, or if the shaft was actually part of the motor.

In any event, after I showed him what I had done he pronounced it "unfixable" and gave me a new one.

The point being, probably doesn't matter at this point what the culprit might be, just move on.

Robert

On 1/30/2017 9:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Some of you may recall that I recently bought a Bosch CM10GD miter saw on
Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CM10GD-.../dp/B00G5R4E9A

I spent some quality time with it this weekend and it looks like it is
defective. I called Bosch tech support this morning and when I described
the problem, he said to return it and get a new one.

Here's the issue:

http://i.imgur.com/sGJYoVf.jpg

If I leave the head unit down until the blade stops, it leaves that mark.
Every time, every blade. I tried the Bosch 60 tooth blade that came with
the saw, I tried a Dewalt 60 tooth Fine Crosscutting blade and a tried a
Diablo 40 tooth General Purpose blade. Every time, every blade.

It was not leaving that mark during my initial testing, so something
obviously happened since then.

The tech suspects that the blade is wobbling. He suggested checking both the
inner and outer washers and the face of the head unit behind the inner washer.
If I don't see anything obvious (I don't) then it could be the bearings.

In any case, I'm still within the 30 day return period for Amazon, so I'm
going to call them tomorrow, get a return authorization and request a
replacement.

Sucks.


Interesting that CPO now sells a reconditioned unit for $599 while
amazon is 549 for a new one.

Same with the 12".. I looked at them 2 years ago, and the cpo units were
100 to 150 less than new... so it's very interesting that the prices
have flipped.

--
Jeff

---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 2:18:36 PM UTC-5, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/30/2017 9:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Some of you may recall that I recently bought a Bosch CM10GD miter saw on
Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CM10GD-.../dp/B00G5R4E9A

I spent some quality time with it this weekend and it looks like it is
defective. I called Bosch tech support this morning and when I described
the problem, he said to return it and get a new one.

Here's the issue:

http://i.imgur.com/sGJYoVf.jpg

If I leave the head unit down until the blade stops, it leaves that mark.
Every time, every blade. I tried the Bosch 60 tooth blade that came with
the saw, I tried a Dewalt 60 tooth Fine Crosscutting blade and a tried a
Diablo 40 tooth General Purpose blade. Every time, every blade.

It was not leaving that mark during my initial testing, so something
obviously happened since then.

The tech suspects that the blade is wobbling. He suggested checking both the
inner and outer washers and the face of the head unit behind the inner washer.
If I don't see anything obvious (I don't) then it could be the bearings.

In any case, I'm still within the 30 day return period for Amazon, so I'm
going to call them tomorrow, get a return authorization and request a
replacement.

Sucks.


Interesting that CPO now sells a reconditioned unit for $599 while
amazon is 549 for a new one.

Same with the 12".. I looked at them 2 years ago, and the cpo units were
100 to 150 less than new... so it's very interesting that the prices
have flipped.

--
Jeff


Whatever the price, I now have 2 of them! ;-)

UPS just delivered the replacment saw but they haven't picked up the old one yet.

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 2:10:01 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Whatever the price, I now have 2 of them! ;-)

UPS just delivered the replacment saw but they haven't picked up the old one yet.

So, now you can cut twice as much. Take advantage and double your shop size!?

Sonny

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 4:06:01 PM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 2:10:01 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Whatever the price, I now have 2 of them! ;-)

UPS just delivered the replacement saw but they haven't picked up the old one yet.

So, now you can cut twice as much. Take advantage and double your shop size!?

Sonny

If I put one behind the other I should be able to cut a 24" board.

On 2/3/2017 1:18 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/30/2017 9:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Some of you may recall that I recently bought a Bosch CM10GD miter saw on
Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CM10GD-.../dp/B00G5R4E9A

I spent some quality time with it this weekend and it looks like it is
defective. I called Bosch tech support this morning and when I described
the problem, he said to return it and get a new one.

Here's the issue:

http://i.imgur.com/sGJYoVf.jpg

If I leave the head unit down until the blade stops, it leaves that mark.
Every time, every blade. I tried the Bosch 60 tooth blade that came with
the saw, I tried a Dewalt 60 tooth Fine Crosscutting blade and a tried a
Diablo 40 tooth General Purpose blade. Every time, every blade.

It was not leaving that mark during my initial testing, so something
obviously happened since then.

The tech suspects that the blade is wobbling. He suggested checking
both the
inner and outer washers and the face of the head unit behind the inner
washer.
If I don't see anything obvious (I don't) then it could be the bearings.

In any case, I'm still within the 30 day return period for Amazon, so I'm
going to call them tomorrow, get a return authorization and request a
replacement.

Sucks.


Interesting that CPO now sells a reconditioned unit for $599 while
amazon is 549 for a new one.

I think the recon at CPO is the 12" version, not the 10" version.

On 1/31/17 9:01 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

Some of you may recall that I recently bought a Bosch CM10GD miter saw on
Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CM10GD-.../dp/B00G5R4E9A

I spent some quality time with it this weekend and it looks like it is
defective. I called Bosch tech support this morning and when I described
the problem, he said to return it and get a new one.

Here's the issue:

http://i.imgur.com/sGJYoVf.jpg

That photo makes me wonder if there is end play in the arbor/shaft such
that under power the arbor/shaft and blade move away from the motor and
then as the blade comes to a rest they move back towards the motor.

I wonder this based on prior experience...



I had the same issue with a non-sliding 12" CMS. Ended up being the
motor brake (which turns the motor into a generator/load when the switch
is released). This (and many other) saws use helical cut gears to
transfer motor power to the blade. The change in torque direction when
the motor brake gets applied was causing the blade drive gear to shift
slightly. I added a thin shim (0.003") to the gear shaft, tightening it
up in its housing. Problem eliminated!

Basically came down to bad assembly/setup at the factory.

-BR

"Brewster" wrote in message news
On 1/31/17 9:01 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

http://i.imgur.com/sGJYoVf.jpg

That photo makes me wonder if there is end play in the arbor/shaft such
that under power the arbor/shaft and blade move away from the motor and
then as the blade comes to a rest they move back towards the motor.

I wonder this based on prior experience...



I had the same issue with a non-sliding 12" CMS. Ended up being the motor
brake (which turns the motor into a generator/load when the switch is
released). This (and many other) saws use helical cut gears to transfer
motor power to the blade. The change in torque direction when the motor
brake gets applied was causing the blade drive gear to shift slightly. I
added a thin shim (0.003") to the gear shaft, tightening it up in its
housing. Problem eliminated!

Basically came down to bad assembly/setup at the factory.

I was kind of surprised that no one else had detected what I had... until
now.

I wonder what the end play spec is during assembly? Were there any end play
shims in evidence when you installed your shim?

John

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 10:28:58 AM UTC-5, Brewster wrote:
On 1/31/17 9:01 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

Some of you may recall that I recently bought a Bosch CM10GD miter saw on
Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CM10GD-.../dp/B00G5R4E9A

I spent some quality time with it this weekend and it looks like it is
defective. I called Bosch tech support this morning and when I described
the problem, he said to return it and get a new one.

Here's the issue:

http://i.imgur.com/sGJYoVf.jpg

That photo makes me wonder if there is end play in the arbor/shaft such
that under power the arbor/shaft and blade move away from the motor and
then as the blade comes to a rest they move back towards the motor.

I wonder this based on prior experience...



I had the same issue with a non-sliding 12" CMS. Ended up being the
motor brake (which turns the motor into a generator/load when the switch
is released). This (and many other) saws use helical cut gears to
transfer motor power to the blade. The change in torque direction when
the motor brake gets applied was causing the blade drive gear to shift
slightly. I added a thin shim (0.003") to the gear shaft, tightening it
up in its housing. Problem eliminated!

Basically came down to bad assembly/setup at the factory.

-BR

I'm not sure that your situation applies to mine. The Bosch CM10GD saw is
belt driven. There is no direct geared connection between the motor and the
blade.

I guess it's possible that the gear at the motor could shift, pull the belt,
which would pull the gear at the blade which could move the blade. That's a
lot of loose parts and I sure hope that isn't the case.

My Dewalt non-slider has the gear you mention - i.e. the motor is
directly connect to the blade (more or less)

http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/...T9-/s-l225.jpg

On 1/30/2017 8:35 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

That's too bad. I always wondered about the stability of that saw with
all those connections and travel in the arm.

Myself. I took a close look at it when I was looking for another SCMS
exclusively for shop/personal use, since my personal, elderly Makita was
necessarily getting a lot of abuse on jobs.

I normally like Bosch tools, but was leery of the engineering just
looking at it, and worried that it might not even stand the test of
occasional off site use/abuse ... knowing that it's hard not to bring a
high performance tool out to a job site when precision work is required.

That old LS1013 has done a couple of Olympic class 1 1/2's off its
mobile stand and is still performing accurately, despite being
used/abused on site, including a few Hardie siding jobs which I wasn't
sure even it would survive if it was named Festool.

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 12:57:05 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 1/30/2017 8:35 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

That's too bad. I always wondered about the stability of that saw with
all those connections and travel in the arm.

Myself. I took a close look at it when I was looking for another SCMS
exclusively for shop/personal use, since my personal, elderly Makita was
necessarily getting a lot of abuse on jobs.

I normally like Bosch tools, but was leery of the engineering just
looking at it, and worried that it might not even stand the test of
occasional off site use/abuse ... knowing that it's hard not to bring a
high performance tool out to a job site when precision work is required.

That old LS1013 has done a couple of Olympic class 1 1/2's off its
mobile stand and is still performing accurately, despite being
used/abused on site, including a few Hardie siding jobs which I wasn't
sure even it would survive if it was named Festool.

I have a Harbor Freight 10" for outside and construction jobs. I'll
have to reside one side of my house this spring but the Bosch will
stay in the basement.