On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 04:00:54 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, January 20, 2017 at 12:18:59 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/19/17 9:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 21:02:16 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

With my dado jig, the process is very fast.
https://goo.gl/photos/StFnQBzCj3J9NCcp8

Very nice. Bunch of good ideas hiding in there. Thanks!

Thank you, it's been really good to me.
Like many of my jigs, it was only intended to be a rough prototype that
would serve as a template for a final version. But it works so well, I
just stuck with it.

”It's only temporary...unless it works." ;-)

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary fix.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 13:31:41 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
[...]

Maybe one day I'll spend the cash for an excellent set of dado blade
that do, in fact, produce a perfectly straight and square bottom withOUT
bat ears and I won't feel the need to clean the cut up with the router.

Check out the Northwoods Dado-Master from Ridge Carbide Tools
http://ridgecarbidetool.com/dado-set...do-master.html

I've had mine for about 15 years now, and have been completely satisfied with it. I bought it
at the Woodworking Show when both Forrest and Ridge were exhibiting, and compared
test cuts from the two side-by-side. I couldn't see any point in the Forrest Dado King: why
pay more money for lesser results? The Ridge dado set is two-thirds the price of the
Forrest, and gives better cuts. The bottom is dead flat, and the bat ears are almost
imperceptible without a magnifying glass, whereas the Forrest leaves tiny but still readily
visible bat ears.

The bat ears are intentional (glue recess), no?

On 1/20/17 11:53 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 13:31:41 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in
news
[...]

Maybe one day I'll spend the cash for an excellent set of dado
blade that do, in fact, produce a perfectly straight and square
bottom withOUT bat ears and I won't feel the need to clean the
cut up with the router.

Check out the Northwoods Dado-Master from Ridge Carbide Tools
http://ridgecarbidetool.com/dado-set...do-master.html

I've had mine for about 15 years now, and have been completely
satisfied with it. I bought it at the Woodworking Show when both
Forrest and Ridge were exhibiting, and compared test cuts from the
two side-by-side. I couldn't see any point in the Forrest Dado
King: why pay more money for lesser results? The Ridge dado set is
two-thirds the price of the Forrest, and gives better cuts. The
bottom is dead flat, and the bat ears are almost imperceptible
without a magnifying glass, whereas the Forrest leaves tiny but
still readily visible bat ears.

The bat ears are intentional (glue recess), no?


I would say no for various reasons.
I believe they are a byproduct of the effort to cut clean edges.
The pointy sides of the outside cutters are designed to score the sides
of the cut. I don't think they could do so without being the slightest
bit proud of the rest of the cutters.

Just my observation.

Leaving space for glue, IMO, is an old wives' tale.
I think it just developed into something sloppy woodworkers use to give
a reason for their sloppiness.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 1/20/2017 11:53 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 13:31:41 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in news
[...]

Maybe one day I'll spend the cash for an excellent set of dado blade
that do, in fact, produce a perfectly straight and square bottom withOUT
bat ears and I won't feel the need to clean the cut up with the router.

Check out the Northwoods Dado-Master from Ridge Carbide Tools
http://ridgecarbidetool.com/dado-set...do-master.html

I've had mine for about 15 years now, and have been completely satisfied with it. I bought it
at the Woodworking Show when both Forrest and Ridge were exhibiting, and compared
test cuts from the two side-by-side. I couldn't see any point in the Forrest Dado King: why
pay more money for lesser results? The Ridge dado set is two-thirds the price of the
Forrest, and gives better cuts. The bottom is dead flat, and the bat ears are almost
imperceptible without a magnifying glass, whereas the Forrest leaves tiny but still readily
visible bat ears.

The bat ears are intentional (glue recess), no?



I doubt it, I almost always have some degree of squeeze out that the bat
ears can not handle. BUT the bat ears are really only visible if you
are looking for them and sometimes not even then.
I do a LOT of cutting with my Forrest dado set and it still cuts
extremely well after 12 years and thousands of feet of groves, dados,
and rabbet joints.

On 1/20/2017 1:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/20/17 11:53 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 13:31:41 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

-MIKE- wrote in
news
[...]

Maybe one day I'll spend the cash for an excellent set of dado
blade that do, in fact, produce a perfectly straight and square
bottom withOUT bat ears and I won't feel the need to clean the
cut up with the router.

Check out the Northwoods Dado-Master from Ridge Carbide Tools
http://ridgecarbidetool.com/dado-set...do-master.html

I've had mine for about 15 years now, and have been completely
satisfied with it. I bought it at the Woodworking Show when both
Forrest and Ridge were exhibiting, and compared test cuts from the
two side-by-side. I couldn't see any point in the Forrest Dado
King: why pay more money for lesser results? The Ridge dado set is
two-thirds the price of the Forrest, and gives better cuts. The
bottom is dead flat, and the bat ears are almost imperceptible
without a magnifying glass, whereas the Forrest leaves tiny but
still readily visible bat ears.

The bat ears are intentional (glue recess), no?


I would say no for various reasons.
I believe they are a byproduct of the effort to cut clean edges.
The pointy sides of the outside cutters are designed to score the sides
of the cut. I don't think they could do so without being the slightest
bit proud of the rest of the cutters.

Just my observation.

Leaving space for glue, IMO, is an old wives' tale.
I think it just developed into something sloppy woodworkers use to give
a reason for their sloppiness.



I totally agree with that assessment of the bat ears.

-MIKE- wrote in news
On 1/20/17 7:31 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news
[...]

Maybe one day I'll spend the cash for an excellent set of dado blade
that do, in fact, produce a perfectly straight and square bottom withOUT
bat ears and I won't feel the need to clean the cut up with the router.

Check out the Northwoods Dado-Master from Ridge Carbide Tools
http://ridgecarbidetool.com/dado-set...do-master.html

I've had mine for about 15 years now, and have been completely satisfied with it. I
bought it
at the Woodworking Show when both Forrest and Ridge were exhibiting, and compared
test cuts from the two side-by-side. I couldn't see any point in the Forrest Dado King: why
pay more money for lesser results? The Ridge dado set is two-thirds the price of the
Forrest, and gives better cuts. The bottom is dead flat, and the bat ears are almost
imperceptible without a magnifying glass, whereas the Forrest leaves tiny but still readily
visible bat ears.


That's one I have bookmarked. I've hear great things about that set.
Have to admit I'm not very happy to hear even those leave bat ears,
though.

*All* dado saws leave bat ears. The best you can do is to minimize the size. And the Ridge
Carbide set leaves the smallest ones I've ever seen.

The dial-a-dado is the other set on my list.
I think the convenience would be worth the extra money.

Maybe so. I'm happy with what I have, though.

On 1/20/2017 10:59 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news
On 1/20/17 7:31 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in news
[...]

Maybe one day I'll spend the cash for an excellent set of dado blade
that do, in fact, produce a perfectly straight and square bottom withOUT
bat ears and I won't feel the need to clean the cut up with the router.

Check out the Northwoods Dado-Master from Ridge Carbide Tools
http://ridgecarbidetool.com/dado-set...do-master.html

I've had mine for about 15 years now, and have been completely satisfied with it. I
bought it
at the Woodworking Show when both Forrest and Ridge were exhibiting, and compared
test cuts from the two side-by-side. I couldn't see any point in the Forrest Dado King: why
pay more money for lesser results? The Ridge dado set is two-thirds the price of the
Forrest, and gives better cuts. The bottom is dead flat, and the bat ears are almost
imperceptible without a magnifying glass, whereas the Forrest leaves tiny but still readily
visible bat ears.


That's one I have bookmarked. I've hear great things about that set.
Have to admit I'm not very happy to hear even those leave bat ears,
though.

*All* dado saws leave bat ears. The best you can do is to minimize the size. And the Ridge
Carbide set leaves the smallest ones I've ever seen.

The dial-a-dado is the other set on my list.
I think the convenience would be worth the extra money.

Swingman has the Dial's Dado and I think he is pleased with it. I use
the shims with the Forrest. If you have a set of calipers the shim
style dado sets are easy to adjust with out much guess work. I can
typically be ready to cut dado's after one test cut. I do not think
that Swingman always gets away with out a test cut.

I place the approximate set of dado cutters on the saw and finger
tighten the arbor nut. I measure, with a digital caliper, the distance
between the outer teeth and subtract that from the width of the material
to be fitted into the dado. The difference is the size shim you need.

I don't see a clear advantage to either style, and I have seen him make
multiple adjustments before cutting, mostly personal preference. I do
wonder how and or if you have to return the Dial a Dado set to Freud to
have it sharpened.

Having said that, if you could count on material being consistent in
thickness from one job to the next the Dial A Dado could be consistently
dialed in before mounting on the saw. But plywood is seldom consistent
in thickness so the setting that worked on one sheet this week probably
will not work on a sheet in a month. You are still going to have to do
the math to get it right.







Maybe so. I'm happy with what I have, though.

On 1/21/17 10:03 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/20/2017 10:59 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in
news
On 1/20/17 7:31 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in
news
[...]

Maybe one day I'll spend the cash for an excellent set of
dado blade that do, in fact, produce a perfectly straight and
square bottom withOUT bat ears and I won't feel the need to
clean the cut up with the router.

Check out the Northwoods Dado-Master from Ridge Carbide Tools
http://ridgecarbidetool.com/dado-set...do-master.html

I've had mine for about 15 years now, and have been completely
satisfied with it. I
bought it
at the Woodworking Show when both Forrest and Ridge were
exhibiting, and compared test cuts from the two side-by-side. I
couldn't see any point in the Forrest Dado King: why pay more
money for lesser results? The Ridge dado set is two-thirds the
price of the Forrest, and gives better cuts. The bottom is dead
flat, and the bat ears are almost imperceptible without a
magnifying glass, whereas the Forrest leaves tiny but still
readily visible bat ears.


That's one I have bookmarked. I've hear great things about that
set. Have to admit I'm not very happy to hear even those leave
bat ears, though.

*All* dado saws leave bat ears. The best you can do is to minimize
the size. And the Ridge Carbide set leaves the smallest ones I've
ever seen.

The dial-a-dado is the other set on my list. I think the
convenience would be worth the extra money.

Swingman has the Dial's Dado and I think he is pleased with it. I
use the shims with the Forrest. If you have a set of calipers the
shim style dado sets are easy to adjust with out much guess work. I
can typically be ready to cut dado's after one test cut. I do not
think that Swingman always gets away with out a test cut.

I place the approximate set of dado cutters on the saw and finger
tighten the arbor nut. I measure, with a digital caliper, the
distance between the outer teeth and subtract that from the width of
the material to be fitted into the dado. The difference is the size
shim you need.

I don't see a clear advantage to either style, and I have seen him
make multiple adjustments before cutting, mostly personal preference.
I do wonder how and or if you have to return the Dial a Dado set to
Freud to have it sharpened.

Having said that, if you could count on material being consistent in
thickness from one job to the next the Dial A Dado could be
consistently dialed in before mounting on the saw. But plywood is
seldom consistent in thickness so the setting that worked on one
sheet this week probably will not work on a sheet in a month. You
are still going to have to do the math to get it right.


I guess the only difference is not having to remove the arbor nut to
adjust it.
I think that's probably reason enough to buy one, all other things being
equal.
The final arbiter for me would be the bat-ears thing and evenness of the
bottom cut.

The Freud dado set I have now is slightly stair-stepped and Freud never
did take responsibility for it. They tried to blame everything short of
the Russians for it. They brought up every excuse in the book except,
"Hey, maybe you got a bad chipper."


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 1/21/2017 11:05 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/21/17 10:03 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/20/2017 10:59 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in
news
On 1/20/17 7:31 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in
news
[...]

Maybe one day I'll spend the cash for an excellent set of
dado blade that do, in fact, produce a perfectly straight and
square bottom withOUT bat ears and I won't feel the need to
clean the cut up with the router.

Check out the Northwoods Dado-Master from Ridge Carbide Tools
http://ridgecarbidetool.com/dado-set...do-master.html

I've had mine for about 15 years now, and have been completely
satisfied with it. I
bought it
at the Woodworking Show when both Forrest and Ridge were
exhibiting, and compared test cuts from the two side-by-side. I
couldn't see any point in the Forrest Dado King: why pay more
money for lesser results? The Ridge dado set is two-thirds the
price of the Forrest, and gives better cuts. The bottom is dead
flat, and the bat ears are almost imperceptible without a
magnifying glass, whereas the Forrest leaves tiny but still
readily visible bat ears.


That's one I have bookmarked. I've hear great things about that
set. Have to admit I'm not very happy to hear even those leave
bat ears, though.

*All* dado saws leave bat ears. The best you can do is to minimize
the size. And the Ridge Carbide set leaves the smallest ones I've
ever seen.

The dial-a-dado is the other set on my list. I think the
convenience would be worth the extra money.

Swingman has the Dial's Dado and I think he is pleased with it. I
use the shims with the Forrest. If you have a set of calipers the
shim style dado sets are easy to adjust with out much guess work. I
can typically be ready to cut dado's after one test cut. I do not
think that Swingman always gets away with out a test cut.

I place the approximate set of dado cutters on the saw and finger
tighten the arbor nut. I measure, with a digital caliper, the
distance between the outer teeth and subtract that from the width of
the material to be fitted into the dado. The difference is the size
shim you need.

I don't see a clear advantage to either style, and I have seen him
make multiple adjustments before cutting, mostly personal preference.
I do wonder how and or if you have to return the Dial a Dado set to
Freud to have it sharpened.

Having said that, if you could count on material being consistent in
thickness from one job to the next the Dial A Dado could be
consistently dialed in before mounting on the saw. But plywood is
seldom consistent in thickness so the setting that worked on one
sheet this week probably will not work on a sheet in a month. You
are still going to have to do the math to get it right.


I guess the only difference is not having to remove the arbor nut to
adjust it.

It has been a while but IIRC he, on occasions, removed the outer blade
to adjust it. I may just be easier to remove the blade. You do not
have to tighten the blade on regular dado blades, finger tight is good
enough to measure the cutting width.



I think that's probably reason enough to buy one, all other things being
equal.
The final arbiter for me would be the bat-ears thing and evenness of the
bottom cut.

I thought the dial a dado was a pretty cool idea but I would not grade
my Forrest set for that feature.


The Freud dado set I have now is slightly stair-stepped and Freud never
did take responsibility for it. They tried to blame everything short of
the Russians for it. They brought up every excuse in the book except,
"Hey, maybe you got a bad chipper."



Either the blade tips were not all ground to the same distance from the
center of the blade or the holes are not a good fit, or both. :~)

And visiting the bat wings again, I'm pretty particular and would never
consider the ones left by my Forrest set an issue to hide. There are
far worse situations that some sets do not address.

On 1/21/17 11:50 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/21/2017 11:05 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/21/17 10:03 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/20/2017 10:59 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in
news
On 1/20/17 7:31 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in
news
[...]

Maybe one day I'll spend the cash for an excellent set
of dado blade that do, in fact, produce a perfectly
straight and square bottom withOUT bat ears and I won't
feel the need to clean the cut up with the router.

Check out the Northwoods Dado-Master from Ridge Carbide
Tools
http://ridgecarbidetool.com/dado-set...do-master.html

I've had mine for about 15 years now, and have been
completely satisfied with it. I
bought it
at the Woodworking Show when both Forrest and Ridge were
exhibiting, and compared test cuts from the two
side-by-side. I couldn't see any point in the Forrest Dado
King: why pay more money for lesser results? The Ridge dado
set is two-thirds the price of the Forrest, and gives
better cuts. The bottom is dead flat, and the bat ears are
almost imperceptible without a magnifying glass, whereas
the Forrest leaves tiny but still readily visible bat
ears.


That's one I have bookmarked. I've hear great things about
that set. Have to admit I'm not very happy to hear even those
leave bat ears, though.

*All* dado saws leave bat ears. The best you can do is to
minimize the size. And the Ridge Carbide set leaves the
smallest ones I've ever seen.

The dial-a-dado is the other set on my list. I think the
convenience would be worth the extra money.

Swingman has the Dial's Dado and I think he is pleased with it.
I use the shims with the Forrest. If you have a set of calipers
the shim style dado sets are easy to adjust with out much guess
work. I can typically be ready to cut dado's after one test cut.
I do not think that Swingman always gets away with out a test
cut.

I place the approximate set of dado cutters on the saw and
finger tighten the arbor nut. I measure, with a digital caliper,
the distance between the outer teeth and subtract that from the
width of the material to be fitted into the dado. The difference
is the size shim you need.

I don't see a clear advantage to either style, and I have seen
him make multiple adjustments before cutting, mostly personal
preference. I do wonder how and or if you have to return the Dial
a Dado set to Freud to have it sharpened.

Having said that, if you could count on material being consistent
in thickness from one job to the next the Dial A Dado could be
consistently dialed in before mounting on the saw. But plywood
is seldom consistent in thickness so the setting that worked on
one sheet this week probably will not work on a sheet in a month.
You are still going to have to do the math to get it right.


I guess the only difference is not having to remove the arbor nut
to adjust it.

It has been a while but IIRC he, on occasions, removed the outer
blade to adjust it. I may just be easier to remove the blade. You
do not have to tighten the blade on regular dado blades, finger tight
is good enough to measure the cutting width.



I think that's probably reason enough to buy one, all other things
being equal. The final arbiter for me would be the bat-ears thing
and evenness of the bottom cut.

I thought the dial a dado was a pretty cool idea but I would not
grade my Forrest set for that feature.


The Freud dado set I have now is slightly stair-stepped and Freud
never did take responsibility for it. They tried to blame
everything short of the Russians for it. They brought up every
excuse in the book except, "Hey, maybe you got a bad chipper."



Either the blade tips were not all ground to the same distance from
the center of the blade or the holes are not a good fit, or both.
:~)

And visiting the bat wings again, I'm pretty particular and would
never consider the ones left by my Forrest set an issue to hide.
There are far worse situations that some sets do not address.


Freud's customer service and poor quality control just left a bad taste
in my mouth.
While overall, I've been very pleased with the quality and performance
of their products, to get the shaft the one time I have an issue really
makes me hesitant to pull the trigger on a higher priced item.

I've heard great things about the Forrest and Ridge sets. The fact that
they are both US companies and offer their own sharpening service makes
me lean in their direction.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 1/21/2017 1:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:


Freud's customer service and poor quality control just left a bad taste
in my mouth.
While overall, I've been very pleased with the quality and performance
of their products, to get the shaft the one time I have an issue really
makes me hesitant to pull the trigger on a higher priced item.

I've heard great things about the Forrest and Ridge sets. The fact that
they are both US companies and offer their own sharpening service makes
me lean in their direction.



I have and like the Ridge. As for sharpening, I sent my DeWalt miter
saw blade and a Freud 10" blade and both came back better than when new.

If you are buying a stack-up type - consider a Metric. Ply is metric
and is sloppy in Imperial stack-ups. I got a nice set that with the
complex set of shims I have both Metric & Imperial. Look at the box and
pick the right set. More is better.

Consider using older wood and newer wood....

Martin

On 1/21/2017 12:27 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/21/2017 1:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:


Freud's customer service and poor quality control just left a bad taste
in my mouth.
While overall, I've been very pleased with the quality and performance
of their products, to get the shaft the one time I have an issue really
makes me hesitant to pull the trigger on a higher priced item.

I've heard great things about the Forrest and Ridge sets. The fact that
they are both US companies and offer their own sharpening service makes
me lean in their direction.



I have and like the Ridge. As for sharpening, I sent my DeWalt miter
saw blade and a Freud 10" blade and both came back better than when new.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 21:37:36 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

If you are buying a stack-up type - consider a Metric. Ply is metric
and is sloppy in Imperial stack-ups. I got a nice set that with the
complex set of shims I have both Metric & Imperial. Look at the box and
pick the right set. More is better.

Consider using older wood and newer wood....

I don't think it matters. You have to measure and use shims, in
either case.

On 1/21/17 9:50 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 21:37:36 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

If you are buying a stack-up type - consider a Metric. Ply is metric
and is sloppy in Imperial stack-ups. I got a nice set that with the
complex set of shims I have both Metric & Imperial. Look at the box and
pick the right set. More is better.

Consider using older wood and newer wood....

I don't think it matters. You have to measure and use shims, in
either case.


So true.
I've never had plywood from two different pallets be the same thickness
anyway.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Saturday, January 21, 2017 at 10:55:18 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/21/17 9:50 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 21:37:36 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

If you are buying a stack-up type - consider a Metric. Ply is metric
and is sloppy in Imperial stack-ups. I got a nice set that with the
complex set of shims I have both Metric & Imperial. Look at the box and
pick the right set. More is better.

Consider using older wood and newer wood....

I don't think it matters. You have to measure and use shims, in
either case.


So true.
I've never had plywood from two different pallets be the same thickness
anyway.



Stop building furniture from pallets and your problems might go away.

http://www.palletfurnitureprojects.c...Furniture1.jpg

On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 20:11:58 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 21, 2017 at 10:55:18 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/21/17 9:50 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 21:37:36 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

If you are buying a stack-up type - consider a Metric. Ply is metric
and is sloppy in Imperial stack-ups. I got a nice set that with the
complex set of shims I have both Metric & Imperial. Look at the box and
pick the right set. More is better.

Consider using older wood and newer wood....

I don't think it matters. You have to measure and use shims, in
either case.


So true.
I've never had plywood from two different pallets be the same thickness
anyway.



Stop building furniture from pallets and your problems might go away.

http://www.palletfurnitureprojects.c...Furniture1.jpg

Hmm, kinda like the stuff we had in college. My FIL called it "early
orange crate". ;-) I wonder how many splinters you have to take out
of your ass after sitting.

But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an old
version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial thinking) size
of slot. You need a different mix.

If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is coming
from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.

Martin

On 1/21/2017 9:50 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 21:37:36 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

If you are buying a stack-up type - consider a Metric. Ply is metric
and is sloppy in Imperial stack-ups. I got a nice set that with the
complex set of shims I have both Metric & Imperial. Look at the box and
pick the right set. More is better.

Consider using older wood and newer wood....

I don't think it matters. You have to measure and use shims, in
either case.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 21:24:13 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an old
version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial thinking) size
of slot. You need a different mix.

I have no idea what you're talking about. You make no sense.

If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is coming
from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.

Huh? You make no sense.

Who cares where it comes from? It's got the be measured. You can't
assume nominal thickness. If you have to shim anyway, who cares if
the set is metric or imperial?

On 1/22/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an old
version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial thinking) size
of slot. You need a different mix.

If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is coming
from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.

Martin


I have no issue what so ever using the standard Forrest dado set to cut
for any plywood. You do not need standard and metric. Any more, hardly
any wood veneer plywood is consistent in thickness.






On 1/21/2017 9:50 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 21:37:36 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

If you are buying a stack-up type - consider a Metric. Ply is metric
and is sloppy in Imperial stack-ups. I got a nice set that with the
complex set of shims I have both Metric & Imperial. Look at the box and
pick the right set. More is better.

Consider using older wood and newer wood....

I don't think it matters. You have to measure and use shims, in
either case.

On 1/22/17 11:30 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/22/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an
old version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial
thinking) size of slot. You need a different mix.

If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is
coming from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.

Martin


I have no issue what so ever using the standard Forrest dado set to
cut for any plywood. You do not need standard and metric. Any more,
hardly any wood veneer plywood is consistent in thickness.


I agree. Any more, if you get a sheet that is the exact specified
thickness, they got lucky. :-)

Heck, you're probably better off having a metric set for "Imperial
plywood" and an Imperial set for "metric plywood." Given the over-under
of each, you're likely to get a better fit with the opposite set.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

In article ,
says...

On 1/22/17 11:30 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/22/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an
old version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial
thinking) size of slot. You need a different mix.

If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is
coming from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.

Martin


I have no issue what so ever using the standard Forrest dado set to
cut for any plywood. You do not need standard and metric. Any more,
hardly any wood veneer plywood is consistent in thickness.


I agree. Any more, if you get a sheet that is the exact specified
thickness, they got lucky. :-)

Heck, you're probably better off having a metric set for "Imperial
plywood" and an Imperial set for "metric plywood." Given the over-under
of each, you're likely to get a better fit with the opposite set.

I have no idea what you're on about. The Freud
shim set (available separately from their blades
by the way) allows the stack thickness to be
adjusted in units of approximately 1/10 of a mm,
which is pretty close to 1/256 of an inch. You
can get close enough to any English or metric
dimension for any practical woodworking purpose
with that.

On 1/22/2017 11:43 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/22/17 11:30 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/22/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an
old version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial
thinking) size of slot. You need a different mix.

If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is
coming from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.

Martin


I have no issue what so ever using the standard Forrest dado set to
cut for any plywood. You do not need standard and metric. Any more,
hardly any wood veneer plywood is consistent in thickness.


I agree. Any more, if you get a sheet that is the exact specified
thickness, they got lucky. :-)

LOL, about the only thing that is consistent in thickness is MDF.
That and the MDO that I have been buying lately, 3/4" and pretty much
one the money.

And my Forrest dado set works fine for 1/2" Baltic Birch, which is not
1/2". ;~)

The only size I have issue with is 1/4" plywood that is often 7/32" so
I just make tow passes with a flat grind blade.

On 1/23/17 4:18 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 1/22/17 11:30 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/22/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g.
an old version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8"
(imperial thinking) size of slot. You need a different mix.

If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is
coming from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some
softwood.

Martin


I have no issue what so ever using the standard Forrest dado set
to cut for any plywood. You do not need standard and metric.
Any more, hardly any wood veneer plywood is consistent in
thickness.


I agree. Any more, if you get a sheet that is the exact specified
thickness, they got lucky. :-)

Heck, you're probably better off having a metric set for "Imperial
plywood" and an Imperial set for "metric plywood." Given the
over-under of each, you're likely to get a better fit with the
opposite set.

I have no idea what you're on about. The Freud shim set (available
separately from their blades by the way) allows the stack thickness
to be adjusted in units of approximately 1/10 of a mm, which is
pretty close to 1/256 of an inch. You can get close enough to any
English or metric dimension for any practical woodworking purpose
with that.


I think you're probably in a agreement with Leon and I about not needing
metric shims/blades for "metric plywood" and Imperial for "Imperial
plywood."

I'm guessing both sets have shims thin enough to allow one to dial it in
to any possible dimension... or at least close enough for woodworking.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

The Glue is different. The thickness is different.

If you buy at the local Hardware/lumber store and get a sheet of say
3/8" by GP or someone - and then buy a "3/8" sheet from Loews and one
from HD - you will find Chile, and other large South American site in
metric that is close but not the 3/8" as you seek.

You have two or maybe 3 thicknesses. But heck it is all the same.
Just more work and different shims/chippers/cutters. Not all sets
give you metric sizes and jump over their sizes.

Martin

On 1/22/2017 9:50 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 21:24:13 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an old
version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial thinking) size
of slot. You need a different mix.

I have no idea what you're talking about. You make no sense.

If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is coming
from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.

Huh? You make no sense.

Who cares where it comes from? It's got the be measured. You can't
assume nominal thickness. If you have to shim anyway, who cares if
the set is metric or imperial?

On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 22:08:20 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

The Glue is different. The thickness is different.

If you buy at the local Hardware/lumber store and get a sheet of say
3/8" by GP or someone - and then buy a "3/8" sheet from Loews and one
from HD - you will find Chile, and other large South American site in
metric that is close but not the 3/8" as you seek.

You have two or maybe 3 thicknesses. But heck it is all the same.
Just more work and different shims/chippers/cutters. Not all sets
give you metric sizes and jump over their sizes.

Forget that. They're different from one pallet to the next. It
doesn't matter whether the set is metric or imperial, you still have
to measure and shim. The width of the cutters themselves don't really
matter much.


Martin

On 1/22/2017 9:50 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 21:24:13 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an old
version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial thinking) size
of slot. You need a different mix.

I have no idea what you're talking about. You make no sense.

If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is coming
from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.

Huh? You make no sense.

Who cares where it comes from? It's got the be measured. You can't
assume nominal thickness. If you have to shim anyway, who cares if
the set is metric or imperial?

That Freud set is likely the dual set to have fine sets like that.
It is likely an expensive set as well. Not the old imperial sets that
are moving in 1/8 or 1/4".

The wobble is tough on a saw and a pain to use but is universal. I used
mine on 4x4 benches. When working on Metric Ply I got a nice Freud set
likely like yours - about 6 or so years ago - sounds like they have
small and large sets that are universal now.

Martin

On 1/23/2017 4:18 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 1/22/17 11:30 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/22/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an
old version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial
thinking) size of slot. You need a different mix.

If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is
coming from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.

Martin


I have no issue what so ever using the standard Forrest dado set to
cut for any plywood. You do not need standard and metric. Any more,
hardly any wood veneer plywood is consistent in thickness.


I agree. Any more, if you get a sheet that is the exact specified
thickness, they got lucky. :-)

Heck, you're probably better off having a metric set for "Imperial
plywood" and an Imperial set for "metric plywood." Given the over-under
of each, you're likely to get a better fit with the opposite set.

I have no idea what you're on about. The Freud
shim set (available separately from their blades
by the way) allows the stack thickness to be
adjusted in units of approximately 1/10 of a mm,
which is pretty close to 1/256 of an inch. You
can get close enough to any English or metric
dimension for any practical woodworking purpose
with that.

In article ,
says...

That Freud set is likely the dual set to have fine sets like that.
It is likely an expensive set as well. Not the old imperial sets that
are moving in 1/8 or 1/4".

The shims cost $12.95. If that is "expensive"
to you you should probably take up a different
hobby.

The wobble is tough on a saw and a pain to use but is universal. I used
mine on 4x4 benches. When working on Metric Ply I got a nice Freud set
likely like yours - about 6 or so years ago - sounds like they have
small and large sets that are universal now.

Martin

On 1/23/2017 4:18 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 1/22/17 11:30 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/22/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
But the shims are not all sizes. If you get Imperial - e.g. an
old version - you can't get down to the metric 3/8" (imperial
thinking) size of slot. You need a different mix.

If you are in 3/4 it isn't and wood plank - as well... Ply is
coming from sites world wide. Some hardwood and some softwood.

Martin


I have no issue what so ever using the standard Forrest dado set to
cut for any plywood. You do not need standard and metric. Any more,
hardly any wood veneer plywood is consistent in thickness.


I agree. Any more, if you get a sheet that is the exact specified
thickness, they got lucky. :-)

Heck, you're probably better off having a metric set for "Imperial
plywood" and an Imperial set for "metric plywood." Given the over-under
of each, you're likely to get a better fit with the opposite set.

I have no idea what you're on about. The Freud
shim set (available separately from their blades
by the way) allows the stack thickness to be
adjusted in units of approximately 1/10 of a mm,
which is pretty close to 1/256 of an inch. You
can get close enough to any English or metric
dimension for any practical woodworking purpose
with that.

On 1/23/2017 10:16 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
That Freud set is likely the dual set to have fine sets like that.
It is likely an expensive set as well. Not the old imperial sets that
are moving in 1/8 or 1/4".

The wobble is tough on a saw and a pain to use but is universal. I used
mine on 4x4 benches. When working on Metric Ply I got a nice Freud set
likely like yours - about 6 or so years ago - sounds like they have
small and large sets that are universal now.

Martin


FWIW, I use the Forrest Dado King Imperial 8" set.

As stated by Forrest it will cut,

CUTS "ALL" SIZED GROOVES 1/4" through 29/32", in 1/32" increments.

The shim set that comes with it includes,
2-.010"
2-.012"
2-.015"

Two .012" and One .015" shims are .001" shy of being 1mm.

All shims together add up to just over 1-7/8mm or .074"

The shims are to handle stock that is not exactly an increment of 1/32"

Any size grove/dado, metric or imperial, can be cut with this dado set
assuming you are cutting between 1/4" and 29/32"

This is how decent dado sets have been made for at least 40 years.

I worry about the .001 shy of being 1mm. Hum

Martin

On 1/24/2017 8:44 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/23/2017 10:16 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
That Freud set is likely the dual set to have fine sets like that.
It is likely an expensive set as well. Not the old imperial sets that
are moving in 1/8 or 1/4".

The wobble is tough on a saw and a pain to use but is universal. I used
mine on 4x4 benches. When working on Metric Ply I got a nice Freud set
likely like yours - about 6 or so years ago - sounds like they have
small and large sets that are universal now.

Martin


FWIW, I use the Forrest Dado King Imperial 8" set.

As stated by Forrest it will cut,

CUTS "ALL" SIZED GROOVES 1/4" through 29/32", in 1/32" increments.

The shim set that comes with it includes,
2-.010"
2-.012"
2-.015"

Two .012" and One .015" shims are .001" shy of being 1mm.

All shims together add up to just over 1-7/8mm or .074"

The shims are to handle stock that is not exactly an increment of 1/32"

Any size grove/dado, metric or imperial, can be cut with this dado set
assuming you are cutting between 1/4" and 29/32"

This is how decent dado sets have been made for at least 40 years.

On 1/24/2017 10:49 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
I worry about the .001 shy of being 1mm. Hum

Martin

Maybe only if you are building "space craft" ;~)





On 1/24/2017 8:44 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/23/2017 10:16 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
That Freud set is likely the dual set to have fine sets like that.
It is likely an expensive set as well. Not the old imperial sets that
are moving in 1/8 or 1/4".

The wobble is tough on a saw and a pain to use but is universal. I used
mine on 4x4 benches. When working on Metric Ply I got a nice Freud set
likely like yours - about 6 or so years ago - sounds like they have
small and large sets that are universal now.

Martin


FWIW, I use the Forrest Dado King Imperial 8" set.

As stated by Forrest it will cut,

CUTS "ALL" SIZED GROOVES 1/4" through 29/32", in 1/32" increments.

The shim set that comes with it includes,
2-.010"
2-.012"
2-.015"

Two .012" and One .015" shims are .001" shy of being 1mm.

All shims together add up to just over 1-7/8mm or .074"

The shims are to handle stock that is not exactly an increment of 1/32"

Any size grove/dado, metric or imperial, can be cut with this dado set
assuming you are cutting between 1/4" and 29/32"

This is how decent dado sets have been made for at least 40 years.

On 1/23/17 7:06 AM, Leon wrote:


LOL, about the only thing that is consistent in thickness is MDF.
That and the MDO that I have been buying lately, 3/4" and pretty much
one the money.

And my Forrest dado set works fine for 1/2" Baltic Birch, which is not
1/2". ;~)

The only size I have issue with is 1/4" plywood that is often 7/32" so
I just make tow passes with a flat grind blade.




Does anyone still buy (or even use) those "undersized" router dado bits
designed for "today's undersized plywood"? Me thinks one would need an
entire set in increments of 1/64"

-BR

On 1/28/17 8:56 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 1/23/17 7:06 AM, Leon wrote:


LOL, about the only thing that is consistent in thickness is MDF.
That and the MDO that I have been buying lately, 3/4" and pretty
much one the money.

And my Forrest dado set works fine for 1/2" Baltic Birch, which is
not 1/2". ;~)

The only size I have issue with is 1/4" plywood that is often 7/32"
so I just make tow passes with a flat grind blade.




Does anyone still buy (or even use) those "undersized" router dado
bits designed for "today's undersized plywood"? Me thinks one would
need an entire set in increments of 1/64"

-BR


I tried one and it didn't last long. I don't think it ever matched a
single sheet.
With my jig, you run an undersized bit along both sides of the dado so
you never have to worry about the size of the bit.

In my opinion, you bet a better, easier cut that way because there is
room for the waste to exit. When cutting dados with straight bits, the
channel can easily clog with chips making a more difficult cut. If you
have a spiral up-cut bit that ejects the chips, then it's not an issue.
But those bits cost a lot more than straight bits.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 10:40:35 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 1/28/17 8:56 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 1/23/17 7:06 AM, Leon wrote:


LOL, about the only thing that is consistent in thickness is MDF.
That and the MDO that I have been buying lately, 3/4" and pretty
much one the money.

And my Forrest dado set works fine for 1/2" Baltic Birch, which is
not 1/2". ;~)

The only size I have issue with is 1/4" plywood that is often 7/32"
so I just make tow passes with a flat grind blade.




Does anyone still buy (or even use) those "undersized" router dado
bits designed for "today's undersized plywood"? Me thinks one would
need an entire set in increments of 1/64"

-BR


I tried one and it didn't last long. I don't think it ever matched a
single sheet.
With my jig, you run an undersized bit along both sides of the dado so
you never have to worry about the size of the bit.

In my opinion, you bet a better, easier cut that way because there is
room for the waste to exit. When cutting dados with straight bits, the
channel can easily clog with chips making a more difficult cut. If you
have a spiral up-cut bit that ejects the chips, then it's not an issue.
But those bits cost a lot more than straight bits.

You're also cutting in the "right" direction on both sides of the
dado, and hogging out less material. The up-cutter is well worth the
money. The solid carbide cutters last forever.

On 1/28/17 10:50 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 10:40:35 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 1/28/17 8:56 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 1/23/17 7:06 AM, Leon wrote:


LOL, about the only thing that is consistent in thickness is
MDF. That and the MDO that I have been buying lately, 3/4" and
pretty much one the money.

And my Forrest dado set works fine for 1/2" Baltic Birch, which
is not 1/2". ;~)

The only size I have issue with is 1/4" plywood that is often
7/32" so I just make tow passes with a flat grind blade.




Does anyone still buy (or even use) those "undersized" router
dado bits designed for "today's undersized plywood"? Me thinks
one would need an entire set in increments of 1/64"

-BR


I tried one and it didn't last long. I don't think it ever matched
a single sheet. With my jig, you run an undersized bit along both
sides of the dado so you never have to worry about the size of the
bit.

In my opinion, you bet a better, easier cut that way because there
is room for the waste to exit. When cutting dados with straight
bits, the channel can easily clog with chips making a more
difficult cut. If you have a spiral up-cut bit that ejects the
chips, then it's not an issue. But those bits cost a lot more than
straight bits.

You're also cutting in the "right" direction on both sides of the
dado, and hogging out less material. The up-cutter is well worth
the money. The solid carbide cutters last forever.


Yeah, I forgot about that. When you cut the whole slot at once, the
router can get a bit squirrely from the two cuts fighting each other.

A spiral bit is on my wish list. :-)



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 1/28/2017 10:50 AM, wrote:
Snip\



You're also cutting in the "right" direction on both sides of the
dado, and hogging out less material. The up-cutter is well worth the
money. The solid carbide cutters last forever.



I have found that an end mill up cut bit lasts far longer than any
carbide bit I have used.

FWIW I use to make mouth blocks for Steve Knight about 15 years ago.

In, approximately 2"x4"x 1/2", pieces of Ipe I was plunge cutting slots
about 1.5" long by 3/8" wide in pairs, on each block. I would make
approximately 400 slots in 200 Blocks per batch.

Ipe is extremely hard and tough on cutters. About 2.5 times harder than
oak.

The carbide bits were chipped and just about toast at the end of one of
those runs.

I switched to an end mill bit after about 3 batches and going through 3
carbide bits and never had to replace that bit.

Something to think about, and end mill bits are relatively inexpensive
compared to carbide bits.