Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article ,
John Doe wrote:
Leon lcb11211 swbelldotnet wrote:

Your absolutely best bet would be to down load Sketchup Make
2013. Do a Google search it to find it. Free 3D drawing and
countless YouTube videos to watch as tutorials.
The Pro version has "solid modeling tools". Is that something
important the free version doesn't have?

I think it's several hundred dollars for the pro version. Do
you need solid modelling that badly? I know I don't.

I had a chance to get the pro version for free once. I didn't
bother. The free version really did all I needed.


I'm also fond of AutoDesk inventor. It's rather expensive,
though.

Autodesk also has a suite of free products under the "123D" name.
I'll bet their cad program is pretty good.


Currently they let you play with the pro version for 8 hours. If you
need the extras then opt for the pro version. BUT if you dig around you
can also find scripts and add-ons that give you the pro type tools in
the free version.

as an example of some extras
http://sketchup.engineeringtoolbox.com/

--
Steve W.

Richard fired this volley in news:cb-
:

Blender is better...

Than Sketchup? Oh, yeah... Blender is better.
Many people who do 'organic'and decorative shape milling swear by Blender.
That, and combined with Inkscape.

Lloyd

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 00:09:04 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Things I want to draw...
...wood boards
...aluminum flat bar, square tube, round tube, rod
...holes through materials
...bolts, washers, and nuts
...wheels
In other words, I want to draw things you might make at home.

Is 2-D CAD appropriate for drawing three-dimensional objects, like
boxes? Do they typically allow you to enter a third dimension when
placing an object? I don't mind having limited views, like a front
view and a side view, but most of us work with three-dimensional
objects...

Thanks.

What is Sketchup Pro 2013? Versus Sketchup Make?


__
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
- Heinlein

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On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 11:33:32 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad, 1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...


1/1000th inch? Is that all???

LOL

Good enough for AutoCAD, and certainly well within the specifications of
the OP's original request.

Some of us have to work to .00005" or smaller.

Shrug

__
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
- Heinlein

---
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On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:02:11 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com on Thu, 21 Nov
2013 07:53:57 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Swingman fired this volley in
om:

They both have their strong points and, as with any tool, the choice
and use depends upon the job.

'modeling' is a pretty loose term as pertains to Sketchup.

Using Sketchup, I've build full photo-realistic panoramic 'models' of
theme park sets for designing fireworks presentations. I love it for
what it's intended to do. It's simple, quick, and CRUDE. You don't seem
to quite understand what underlies its drawings.

I think that is given away in the name. After all, it is called
"Sketch up" not "Drafting".

As any engineer/designer will tell you - everything starts with a
"sketch", be it a literal "drawing on a paper napkin" to "it will sort
of look like this ..." drawing in a CAD Program. Just show shapes,
relationships and maybe some sizes. What will eventually wind up
plotted on a C size page started as "isometric" shapes quickly
sketched on notepaper, "with circles and arrows and a paragraph ...
describing what each one was..."

tschus
pyotr


True indeed.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

__
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
- Heinlein

---
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"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 00:09:04 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Things I want to draw...
...wood boards
...aluminum flat bar, square tube, round tube, rod
...holes through materials
...bolts, washers, and nuts
...wheels
In other words, I want to draw things you might make at home.

Is 2-D CAD appropriate for drawing three-dimensional objects, like
boxes? Do they typically allow you to enter a third dimension when
placing an object? I don't mind having limited views, like a front
view and a side view, but most of us work with three-dimensional
objects...

Thanks.

What is Sketchup Pro 2013? Versus Sketchup Make?


If you can visualize the part you want to make, a pencil is all you
need to capture it. The designers of this didn't need no stinkin CAD:
http://www.paradoxplace.com/Photo%20...0Cathedral.htm

If you can't create it in your head then CAD won't help you. It
doesn't recognise your conceptual errors. I've embarrassed a few
engineers by pointing out why I couldn't make what they had drawn.

http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/cog_imposs1/devilsfork.gif

jsw

On 11/23/2013 4:00 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 11:33:32 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad, 1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...


1/1000th inch? Is that all???

LOL

Good enough for AutoCAD, and certainly well within the specifications of
the OP's original request.

Some of us have to work to .00005" or smaller.

Well even fewer of us work to .0000000000000000000000000000000000005" or
smaller but that still does not mean you need a program to do that when
..0001 is way more than enough.

On 11/23/2013 3:42 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

What is Sketchup Pro 2013? Versus Sketchup Make?

Professional version versus free version.

Presentation tools (Layout), dynamic components, and a handful of not
really necessary solid modeling tools are not part of the Pro version.

Modeling functionality is otherwise identical.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/23/2013 4:00 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Some of us have to work to .00005" or smaller.

Yep, that's when you bring out the right tool for the job. But
apparently not necessary for the OP.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/23/2013 7:24 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

If you can visualize the part you want to make, a pencil is all you
need to capture it. The designers of this didn't need no stinkin CAD:
http://www.paradoxplace.com/Photo%20...0Cathedral.htm

Obviously not, but with CAD it might not have taken 56 years to build
either.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/23/2013 10:08 AM, Swingman wrote:
Presentation tools (Layout), dynamic components, and a handful of not
really necessary solid modeling tools are not part of the Pro version.

That should be "not part of the FREE version.."

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 02:00:51 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 11:33:32 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad, 1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...


1/1000th inch? Is that all???

LOL

Good enough for AutoCAD, and certainly well within the specifications of
the OP's original request.

Some of us have to work to .00005" or smaller.

In wood?

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 11/23/2013 7:24 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

If you can visualize the part you want to make, a pencil is all you
need to capture it. The designers of this didn't need no stinkin
CAD:
http://www.paradoxplace.com/Photo%20...0Cathedral.htm

Obviously not, but with CAD it might not have taken 56 years to
build either.


Their problem wasn't just drafting, they didn't know how to combine
lateral thrust vectors on the columns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Stevin
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...4/Simon-Stevin

jsw

On 11/23/2013 11:54 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 02:00:51 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 11:33:32 -0600, wrote:

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad, 1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...


1/1000th inch? Is that all???

LOL

Good enough for AutoCAD, and certainly well within the specifications of
the OP's original request.

Some of us have to work to .00005" or smaller.

In wood?


Cross posted to metalworking.

So yes...

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 12:54:21 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 02:00:51 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 11:33:32 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad, 1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...


1/1000th inch? Is that all???

LOL

Good enough for AutoCAD, and certainly well within the specifications of
the OP's original request.

Some of us have to work to .00005" or smaller.

In wood?

Im posting from rec.crafts.metalworking.

Gunner

__
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
- Heinlein

---
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On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 08:24:19 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 00:09:04 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Things I want to draw...
...wood boards
...aluminum flat bar, square tube, round tube, rod
...holes through materials
...bolts, washers, and nuts
...wheels
In other words, I want to draw things you might make at home.

Is 2-D CAD appropriate for drawing three-dimensional objects, like
boxes? Do they typically allow you to enter a third dimension when
placing an object? I don't mind having limited views, like a front
view and a side view, but most of us work with three-dimensional
objects...

Thanks.

What is Sketchup Pro 2013? Versus Sketchup Make?


If you can visualize the part you want to make, a pencil is all you
need to capture it. The designers of this didn't need no stinkin CAD:
http://www.paradoxplace.com/Photo%20...0Cathedral.htm

If you can't create it in your head then CAD won't help you. It
doesn't recognise your conceptual errors. I've embarrassed a few
engineers by pointing out why I couldn't make what they had drawn.

http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/cog_imposs1/devilsfork.gif

jsw

Like this one?

http://www.reocities.com/omegaman_uk...t/PERCEPT2.gif


__
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
- Heinlein

---
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http://www.avast.com

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:08:56 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 11/23/2013 3:42 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

What is Sketchup Pro 2013? Versus Sketchup Make?

Professional version versus free version.

Presentation tools (Layout), dynamic components, and a handful of not
really necessary solid modeling tools are not part of the Pro version.

Modeling functionality is otherwise identical.

Thanks!

Ill check it out.

Gunner

__
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
- Heinlein

---
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On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 12:28:49 -0600, Richard
wrote:

On 11/23/2013 11:54 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 02:00:51 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 11:33:32 -0600, wrote:

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad, 1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...


1/1000th inch? Is that all???

LOL

Good enough for AutoCAD, and certainly well within the specifications of
the OP's original request.

Some of us have to work to .00005" or smaller.

In wood?


Cross posted to metalworking.

So yes...

The fact that it was cross-posted into "metalworking" made 50
microinch tolerances required for wood? These metal-heads are
amazing!

fired this volley in news:uut199hh6700a357dmc7bjffvr5667kp2q@
4ax.com:

The fact that it was cross-posted into "metalworking" made 50
microinch tolerances required for wood? These metal-heads are
amazing!


Thank you... we are! We can do woodworking more precisely than you can,
too!

Lloyd

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:07:58 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in news:uut199hh6700a357dmc7bjffvr5667kp2q@
4ax.com:

The fact that it was cross-posted into "metalworking" made 50
microinch tolerances required for wood? These metal-heads are
amazing!


Thank you... we are! We can do woodworking more precisely than you can,
too!

Once again, proving that you're simply amazing (i.e. simple and
amazing).

On 11/23/2013 1:07 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in news:uut199hh6700a357dmc7bjffvr5667kp2q@
4ax.com:

The fact that it was cross-posted into "metalworking" made 50
microinch tolerances required for wood? These metal-heads are
amazing!


Thank you... we are! We can do woodworking more precisely than you can,
too!

Lloyd



Probably not.

Leon wrote:
On 11/23/2013 4:00 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 11:33:32 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad,
1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...


1/1000th inch? Is that all???

LOL

Good enough for AutoCAD, and certainly well within the
specifications of
the OP's original request.

Some of us have to work to .00005" or smaller.

Well even fewer of us work to .0000000000000000000000000000000000005"
or smaller but that still does not mean you need a program to do that
when .0001 is way more than enough.



What would the value of the integral over (-infinity, infinity) of
1/(1+x^2) dx look like if you didn't express it as the Greek letter PI????
Even being in error by the amount above would make it that you bought it
from Kmart--apologies to Kmart (and/or the Sears Holding Co.).

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet fired this volley in news:56-
:

Probably not.

_I_ can, with woodworking tools. I built period reproductions of French
Revival decorative furniture for about 20 years.

Except for a table saw, most of it with hand tools, per the authentic
methods. Doing fit-ups to a thousanth is a must if joints were to be
perfect. (and yes, I know about the growth of the wood, but some joints
demand that precision)

No metal fasteners in them, either. Gauche'.

I can do dovetails you can't see a gap in by hand, too. Can you? I
doubt it.

Lloyd

Gunner Asch on Sat, 23 Nov 2013 02:00:51 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 11:33:32 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad, 1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...


1/1000th inch? Is that all???

LOL

Good enough for AutoCAD, and certainly well within the specifications of
the OP's original request.

Some of us have to work to .00005" or smaller.

half a ten thousandths of an inch?

Yoicks, you're starting to get into the area where you can tell
where it was, or how big it was, but not both.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Gunner Asch on Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:47:05 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

What is Sketchup Pro 2013? Versus Sketchup Make?


If you can visualize the part you want to make, a pencil is all you
need to capture it. The designers of this didn't need no stinkin CAD:
http://www.paradoxplace.com/Photo%20...0Cathedral.htm

You don't need CAD to make an original drawing.

But CAD sure comes in handy when you are attempting to make
revisions to that drawing.

If you can't create it in your head then CAD won't help you. It
doesn't recognise your conceptual errors. I've embarrassed a few
engineers by pointing out why I couldn't make what they had drawn.

http://www.reocities.com/omegaman_uk...t/PERCEPT2.gif

Somewhere I have the storage crate design for that ...



--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On 11/23/2013 1:49 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 11/23/2013 4:00 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 11:33:32 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad,
1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...


1/1000th inch? Is that all???

LOL

Good enough for AutoCAD, and certainly well within the
specifications of
the OP's original request.

Some of us have to work to .00005" or smaller.

Well even fewer of us work to .0000000000000000000000000000000000005"
or smaller but that still does not mean you need a program to do that
when .0001 is way more than enough.



What would the value of the integral over (-infinity, infinity) of
1/(1+x^2) dx look like if you didn't express it as the Greek letter PI????
Even being in error by the amount above would make it that you bought it
from Kmart--apologies to Kmart (and/or the Sears Holding Co.).





LOL, I was just making a point that in woodworking you don't need to
work in tolerances that the human can't see. And The OP had on top of
his list, drawing a board, not friggin atomic particles.

On 11/23/2013 2:00 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet fired this volley in news:56-
:

Probably not.

_I_ can, with woodworking tools. I built period reproductions of French
Revival decorative furniture for about 20 years.

Except for a table saw, most of it with hand tools, per the authentic
methods. Doing fit-ups to a thousanth is a must if joints were to be
perfect. (and yes, I know about the growth of the wood, but some joints
demand that precision)

So except for when it was not, your work method used authentic methods.
I suppose that means that you used the authentic methods when it
suited you. It really does not matter what tool you use, it is the
result that counts.


No metal fasteners in them, either. Gauche'.

I use metal fasteners for knobs, and hinges and attaching adjustable
feet on furniture that I design and build, that is about it.


I can do dovetails you can't see a gap in by hand, too. Can you? I
doubt it.

Probably not, but with a router absolutely.


Lloyd


While we are bragging,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...7630857421932/

And with the exception of a couple of older pieces I have built all of
these in the last three years and after I converted to Sketchup.
AFWIW all joint details were drawn in Sketchup.

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote
in message
. 3.70
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet fired this volley in news:56-
:

Probably not.

_I_ can, with woodworking tools. I built period
reproductions of French Revival decorative furniture for
about 20 years.

Except for a table saw, most of it with hand tools, per
the authentic methods.

Doing fit-ups to a thousanth is a
must if joints were to be perfect.

Once you get them that way, how long does it take them to expand/shrink to
something else?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

Leon wrote:
On 11/23/2013 1:49 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 11/23/2013 4:00 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 11:33:32 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad,
1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...


1/1000th inch? Is that all???

LOL

Good enough for AutoCAD, and certainly well within the
specifications of
the OP's original request.

Some of us have to work to .00005" or smaller.

Well even fewer of us work to .0000000000000000000000000000000000005"
or smaller but that still does not mean you need a program to do that
when .0001 is way more than enough.



What would the value of the integral over (-infinity, infinity) of
1/(1+x^2) dx look like if you didn't express it as the Greek letter
PI????
Even being in error by the amount above would make it that you bought it
from Kmart--apologies to Kmart (and/or the Sears Holding Co.).





LOL, I was just making a point that in woodworking you don't need to
work in tolerances that the human can't see. And The OP had on top of
his list, drawing a board, not friggin atomic particles.
I wasn't replying to your post specifically. I just wanted to get in my
2-cents about accuracy. As far as computers go, integers can match
exactly, but not numbers with decimal points, in general. You can ask
and get exactly 3 twobyfours, but not of any exact dimension! ; ) Of
course, the value of PI can be matched exactly--just not by a typical
computer. If one is willing to express numbers with base PI instead of
base 10 or base 2, then all bets are off.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 14:00:44 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet fired this volley in news:56-
:

Probably not.

_I_ can, with woodworking tools. I built period reproductions of French
Revival decorative furniture for about 20 years.

Except for a table saw, most of it with hand tools, per the authentic
methods. Doing fit-ups to a thousanth is a must if joints were to be
perfect. (and yes, I know about the growth of the wood, but some joints
demand that precision)

No metal fasteners in them, either. Gauche'.

I can do dovetails you can't see a gap in by hand, too. Can you? I
doubt it.

Lloyd

Well, Lloyd, it appears Leon showed you his. How about you showing
yours... to Leon.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 15:17:28 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...7630857421932/

Hi Leon. Got a question about Mary's bookcase. I can't tell from the
pictures presented. In the back of the bookcase, I see you've put in
columns in the centre of the shelving.

Are they inset into the shelving or is the shelving have a space
behind it the full length of the shelving?

Hope I made my question clear.

"Gordon Shumway" wrote:


Well, Lloyd, it appears Leon showed you his. How about you showing
yours... to Leon.
--------------------------------------------
Most difficult when operating from a foot in mouth position.

Lew

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 17:20:24 -0500, Bill
wrote:

Leon wrote:
On 11/23/2013 1:49 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 11/23/2013 4:00 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 11:33:32 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad,
1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...


1/1000th inch? Is that all???

LOL

Good enough for AutoCAD, and certainly well within the
specifications of
the OP's original request.

Some of us have to work to .00005" or smaller.

Well even fewer of us work to .0000000000000000000000000000000000005"
or smaller but that still does not mean you need a program to do that
when .0001 is way more than enough.



What would the value of the integral over (-infinity, infinity) of
1/(1+x^2) dx look like if you didn't express it as the Greek letter
PI????
Even being in error by the amount above would make it that you bought it
from Kmart--apologies to Kmart (and/or the Sears Holding Co.).





LOL, I was just making a point that in woodworking you don't need to
work in tolerances that the human can't see. And The OP had on top of
his list, drawing a board, not friggin atomic particles.
I wasn't replying to your post specifically. I just wanted to get in my
2-cents about accuracy. As far as computers go, integers can match
exactly, but not numbers with decimal points, in general. You can ask
and get exactly 3 twobyfours, but not of any exact dimension! ; ) Of
course, the value of PI can be matched exactly--just not by a typical
computer. If one is willing to express numbers with base PI instead of
base 10 or base 2, then all bets are off.

In Windows 7 I noted, in a solitary game 7 out of 10 score is 69%.
Garbage in garbge out.

Mark

Markem wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 17:20:24 -0500, Bill
wrote:

Leon wrote:
On 11/23/2013 1:49 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 11/23/2013 4:00 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 11:33:32 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad,
1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...

1/1000th inch? Is that all???
LOL

Good enough for AutoCAD, and certainly well within the
specifications of
the OP's original request.
Some of us have to work to .00005" or smaller.
Well even fewer of us work to .0000000000000000000000000000000000005"
or smaller but that still does not mean you need a program to do that
when .0001 is way more than enough.



What would the value of the integral over (-infinity, infinity) of
1/(1+x^2) dx look like if you didn't express it as the Greek letter
PI????
Even being in error by the amount above would make it that you bought it
from Kmart--apologies to Kmart (and/or the Sears Holding Co.).


LOL, I was just making a point that in woodworking you don't need to
work in tolerances that the human can't see. And The OP had on top of
his list, drawing a board, not friggin atomic particles.
I wasn't replying to your post specifically. I just wanted to get in my
2-cents about accuracy. As far as computers go, integers can match
exactly, but not numbers with decimal points, in general. You can ask
and get exactly 3 twobyfours, but not of any exact dimension! ; ) Of
course, the value of PI can be matched exactly--just not by a typical
computer. If one is willing to express numbers with base PI instead of
base 10 or base 2, then all bets are off.
In Windows 7 I noted, in a solitary game 7 out of 10 score is 69%.
Garbage in garbge out.

..7 can't be stored exactly as such as a floating point number on a
typical modern computer.
Someone "casted" the number to an integer, losing what what stored as a
fraction.

They used: (int)(average)
when they should have used: (int)(average+.5).

The latter would have rounded.
Mark

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 12:08:25 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Sat, 23 Nov 2013 02:00:51 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 11:33:32 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad, 1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...


1/1000th inch? Is that all???

LOL

Good enough for AutoCAD, and certainly well within the specifications of
the OP's original request.

Some of us have to work to .00005" or smaller.

half a ten thousandths of an inch?

Yoicks, you're starting to get into the area where you can tell
where it was, or how big it was, but not both.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Ayup...aerospace requires 50 millions or half 10ths all the time.

Which is damned hard to do with machines that hold +/- 2 tenths

Gunner

__
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
- Heinlein

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Bill wrote:


.7 can't be stored exactly as such as a floating point number on a
typical modern computer.
Someone "casted" the number to an integer, losing what what stored as
a fraction.

They used: (int)(average)
when they should have used: (int)(average+.5).

The latter would have rounded.

Wouldn't have had that problem if they had written the program in COBOL!

--

-Mike-

Gunner Asch wrote:


Ayup...aerospace requires 50 millions or half 10ths all the time.

Which is damned hard to do with machines that hold +/- 2 tenths


One might think it is impossible to do with repeatability and assurance.

So - I am curious - what is it that aerospace requires that is 50
"millions"? I worked in that space for a while and I never saw any
tolerances like that - but that does not say much. I believe that even the
space shuttle does not demand tolerances that close - but I really do not
know.

--

-Mike-

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 23:33:15 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:


Ayup...aerospace requires 50 millions or half 10ths all the time.

Which is damned hard to do with machines that hold +/- 2 tenths


One might think it is impossible to do with repeatability and assurance.

So - I am curious - what is it that aerospace requires that is 50
"millions"? I worked in that space for a while and I never saw any
tolerances like that - but that does not say much. I believe that even the
space shuttle does not demand tolerances that close - but I really do not
know.

Knowing nothing about aerospace I am willing to hazard a guess. I
presume the space shuttle does not require tolerances anywhere near
MILLIONTHS of an inch but I presume the shuttle's trajectory
calculations would. I imagine that a rounding error would be the
difference between a successful orbit or crashing into Homer Simpson's
house in Springfield.

On 11/23/2013 6:13 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 15:17:28 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...7630857421932/

Hi Leon. Got a question about Mary's bookcase. I can't tell from the
pictures presented. In the back of the bookcase, I see you've put in
columns in the centre of the shelving.

Are they inset into the shelving or is the shelving have a space
behind it the full length of the shelving?

Hope I made my question clear.



The back of the cabinets have face frames also. The back face frames
however are assembled with lap joints that join with the rabbets on the
inside edges. The center back stiles are part of the back face frame
and it too has rabbets. The rabbets are 1/2" deep and 1/2" wide. The
back panels fit in to the rabbets from the back side.


Soooooo the shelves have a straight back edge that butts up against the
outer and center stiles of the back face frames and there is a 1/2" gap
between the panels and the back edge of the shelves.


Clear as mud? LOL


If you are using Sketchup I can send you a drawing for to look at more
closely.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 23:33:15 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:


Ayup...aerospace requires 50 millions or half 10ths all the time.

Which is damned hard to do with machines that hold +/- 2 tenths


One might think it is impossible to do with repeatability and assurance.

Hardly impossible. It happens many thousands..hundreds of thousands
of parts a day.

So - I am curious - what is it that aerospace requires that is 50
"millions"? I worked in that space for a while and I never saw any
tolerances like that - but that does not say much. I believe that even the
space shuttle does not demand tolerances that close - but I really do not
know.

Jet engine parts, microwave wave guides, thousands of things. Most of
which I was not cleared to know what they were when I ran into them..
An awful lot of optical stuff is that or more.

Shrug. And a lot of that stuff I figured would be good at
+0/- .001...but..the specs...

As the truism goes...the more zeros you add to the right of the
decimal point...you multiply the cost by a factor of 5-10



__
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
- Heinlein

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