Things I want to draw...
....wood boards
....aluminum flat bar, square tube, round tube, rod
....holes through materials
....bolts, washers, and nuts
....wheels
In other words, I want to draw things you might make at home.

Is 2-D CAD appropriate for drawing three-dimensional objects, like
boxes? Do they typically allow you to enter a third dimension when
placing an object? I don't mind having limited views, like a front
view and a side view, but most of us work with three-dimensional
objects...

Thanks.

On 11/20/2013 6:09 PM, John Doe wrote:
Things I want to draw...
...wood boards
...aluminum flat bar, square tube, round tube, rod
...holes through materials
...bolts, washers, and nuts
...wheels
In other words, I want to draw things you might make at home.

Is 2-D CAD appropriate for drawing three-dimensional objects, like
boxes?

No. Unless it will allow ISO, isometric, drawing.


Do they typically allow you to enter a third dimension when
placing an object?

No.

I don't mind having limited views, like a front
view and a side view, but most of us work with three-dimensional
objects...

Thanks.



Your absolutely best bet would be to down load Sketchup Make 2013. Do a
Google search it to find it. Free 3D drawing and countless YouTube
videos to watch as tutorials.


I have been using CAD programs that I have paid for for 27 years and the
last program was AutoCAD. I switched to Sketchup about 6 years ago and
have not looked back.

Leon lcb11211 swbelldotnet wrote:

Your absolutely best bet would be to down load Sketchup Make
2013. Do a Google search it to find it. Free 3D drawing and
countless YouTube videos to watch as tutorials.

The Pro version has "solid modeling tools". Is that something
important the free version doesn't have?

Thanks.












I have been using CAD programs that I have paid for for 27 years
and the last program was AutoCAD. I switched to Sketchup about
6 years ago and have not looked back.

If it's for making custom parts, like for making your own parts
library, it's not important to me.

On 11/20/2013 8:23 PM, John Doe wrote:
Leon lcb11211 swbelldotnet wrote:

Your absolutely best bet would be to down load Sketchup Make
2013. Do a Google search it to find it. Free 3D drawing and
countless YouTube videos to watch as tutorials.

The Pro version has "solid modeling tools". Is that something
important the free version doesn't have?

Thanks.


Not unless you make you living using the program and need that feature.

On 11/20/2013 6:32 PM, John Doe wrote:
If it's for making custom parts, like for making your own parts
library, it's not important to me.


It is very likely that you will not need the 'solid tools' features.
With the free 'Make' version of Sketchup, you can create you own
3 D component, assemblies, projects, etc.

The free version does have most of the functionality of the 'Pro'
version.

The 'Pro' version does include some features for documentation and
layout that you might find useful. However, I strongly suggest that
you try the free version first. It will probably do all that you
want.



Dan

Dan Coby fired this volley in news:TJ-
:

The free version does have most of the functionality of the 'Pro'
version.

The 'Pro' version does include some features for documentation and
layout that you might find useful. However, I strongly suggest that
you try the free version first. It will probably do all that you
want.

phhhhhttt! Sketchup is worthless for 3D CAD. It's a drawing package, not
a CAD package!

If you don't know the difference between drawing software and CAD
software, you don't need CAD.

Lloyd

On 11/20/2013 8:23 PM, John Doe wrote:
Leon lcb11211 swbelldotnet wrote:

Your absolutely best bet would be to down load Sketchup Make
2013. Do a Google search it to find it. Free 3D drawing and
countless YouTube videos to watch as tutorials.

The Pro version has "solid modeling tools". Is that something
important the free version doesn't have?

No. I use the Pro version of SketchUp and rarely have a need for the
"solid modeling tools", which are mainly an alternate, but more
convenient, way to do something that can be done other ways with the
free version.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/21/2013 6:00 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

phhhhhttt! Sketchup is worthless for 3D CAD. It's a drawing package, not
a CAD package!

If you don't know the difference between drawing software and CAD
software, you don't need CAD.

SketchUp is actually "3D modeling software", not a "drawing package".

It is true that SketchUp is not "CAD" in the traditional sense, but
SketchUp is much easier to use for what it does _using faces and edges
to model in three dimensions_- than a traditional CAD program.

They both have their strong points and, as with any tool, the choice and
use depends upon the job.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Swingman fired this volley in
:

They both have their strong points and, as with any tool, the choice
and
use depends upon the job.

'modeling' is a pretty loose term as pertains to Sketchup.

Using Sketchup, I've build full photo-realistic panoramic 'models' of
theme park sets for designing fireworks presentations. I love it for
what it's intended to do. It's simple, quick, and CRUDE. You don't seem
to quite understand what underlies its drawings.

I defy you to get any precise measurements or 'fits' out of any Sketchup
model. Vertices don't align, vectors overlap and/or mis-match at ends,
'snap' points randomly 'fly' to other dimensions, textures just 'float'
in the same plane as the surface to which they're applied, and are
transparent from some viewing angles... it just goes on and on. It was
_designed_ to make pretty, "3D-looking" shapes for on-screen
presentations, not for creating detailed items for machining.

Sketchup models can _look_ pretty, but they aren't representations of any
real solids, and cannot be used (even crudely) for creating a part from a
drawing, unless measurements don't matter a whit. Even then, it's a
stone bitch to translate a Sketchup model into something CAM can handle.

I'm saying all this from the perspective of a (past) _heavy_ user of both
Sketchup and several true 3D CADs. It doesn't sound to me like you have
extensive experience with either genre.

LLoyd

On 11/21/2013 7:53 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Swingman fired this volley in
:

They both have their strong points and, as with any tool, the choice
and
use depends upon the job.

'modeling' is a pretty loose term as pertains to Sketchup.

Using Sketchup, I've build full photo-realistic panoramic 'models' of
theme park sets for designing fireworks presentations. I love it for
what it's intended to do. It's simple, quick, and CRUDE. You don't seem
to quite understand what underlies its drawings.

I defy you to get any precise measurements or 'fits' out of any Sketchup
model.

Define precise, I'm an old AutoCAD user and find that for woodworking
Sketchup is plenty precise.


Vertices don't align, vectors overlap and/or mis-match at ends,
'snap' points randomly 'fly' to other dimensions, textures just 'float'

Until I learned to use Sketchup sufficiently I had that problem too.
What you are describing is not a problem that I have noticed any more.




in the same plane as the surface to which they're applied, and are
transparent from some viewing angles... it just goes on and on. It was
_designed_ to make pretty, "3D-looking" shapes for on-screen
presentations, not for creating detailed items for machining.

Define Machining. Works great for machining wood. perhaps not steel.

AAMOF I use very few dimensions in my drawings of furniture. I use them
to verify over all dimensions. Like a piece of furniture that has many
components so do my drawings. From the drawing I use a plug in program
to recognizes, list, and import those components into an optimization
program that takes my on hand inventory of materials and tells me which
inventory pieces to use and which components to cut from them. Often it
is only at that point that I actually know the over all dimension of an
actual component. Then If that particular component needs to have
dado's, rabbets. mortises, and or tapers I reference the drawings.



Sketchup models can _look_ pretty, but they aren't representations of any
real solids, and cannot be used (even crudely) for creating a part from a
drawing, unless measurements don't matter a whit. Even then, it's a
stone bitch to translate a Sketchup model into something CAM can handle.

I'm saying all this from the perspective of a (past) _heavy_ user of both
Sketchup and several true 3D CADs. It doesn't sound to me like you have
extensive experience with either genre.

Nor you.

On 11/21/2013 7:53 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I'm saying all this from the perspective of a (past)_heavy_ user of both
Sketchup and several true 3D CADs. It doesn't sound to me like you have
extensive experience with either genre.

Oh, no more than a few million dollar homes, dozens of kitchens, and
countless remodels, hundreds of cabinets and furniture projects, all
using SU to good effect for _accurate_ shop drawings, design, including
construction documents for permitting, bid and build, four shared
collections on 3D Warehouse, with over 40 separate models of furniture
and cabinetry.

Many, but not nearly all can be seen below ... .. let your fingers do
the walking.

Now, can you show us yours?

BTW, you apparently are the ignorant one regarding "precision".

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad, 1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/21/2013 8:13 AM, Leon wrote:
On 11/21/2013 7:53 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:


I defy you to get any precise measurements or 'fits' out of any Sketchup
model.

Define precise, I'm an old AutoCAD user and find that for woodworking
Sketchup is plenty precise.


Vertices don't align, vectors overlap and/or mis-match at ends,
'snap' points randomly 'fly' to other dimensions, textures just 'float'

Until I learned to use Sketchup sufficiently I had that problem too.
What you are describing is not a problem that I have noticed any more.

Can't blame the software for operator ignorance.

Lloyd definitely has a short between the keyboard and chair by
exhibiting his ignorance above of SU's "inference engine", which he has
apparently failed to understand.

The "precision" of SU can be fully realized/appreciated when using Ruby
Scripts, bypassing the inference engine altogether.

But then again, that takes an in-depth understanding of the internal
operation of the program, the ignorance of which makes mistaking opinion
for fact, as the first above.


I'm saying all this from the perspective of a (past) _heavy_ user of both
Sketchup and several true 3D CADs. It doesn't sound to me like you have
extensive experience with either genre.

Nor you.

LOL ... it's been pretty well demonstrated where that "extensive
experience" is lacking.


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Troll...

--
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

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Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking
Subject: CAD for simple 3-D metal & wood projects?
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Dan Coby adcoby earthlink.net fired this volley in news:TJ-
dnVtQQf1YFhDPnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d earthlink.com:

The free version does have most of the functionality of the 'Pro'
version.

The 'Pro' version does include some features for documentation and
layout that you might find useful. However, I strongly suggest that
you try the free version first. It will probably do all that you
want.

phhhhhttt! Sketchup is worthless for 3D CAD. It's a drawing package, not
a CAD package!

If you don't know the difference between drawing software and CAD
software, you don't need CAD.

Lloyd

If this troll wants to discuss complex CAD programs, it should
grow a pair and start its own thread without "simple" in the
subject line...

--
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

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Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking
Subject: CAD for simple 3-D metal & wood projects?
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Swingman kac nospam.com fired this volley in
news:E9SdnZLrn8mblhPPnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d giganews.com:

They both have their strong points and, as with any tool, the choice
and
use depends upon the job.

'modeling' is a pretty loose term as pertains to Sketchup.

Using Sketchup, I've build full photo-realistic panoramic 'models' of
theme park sets for designing fireworks presentations. I love it for
what it's intended to do. It's simple, quick, and CRUDE. You don't seem
to quite understand what underlies its drawings.

I defy you to get any precise measurements or 'fits' out of any Sketchup
model. Vertices don't align, vectors overlap and/or mis-match at ends,
'snap' points randomly 'fly' to other dimensions, textures just 'float'
in the same plane as the surface to which they're applied, and are
transparent from some viewing angles... it just goes on and on. It was
_designed_ to make pretty, "3D-looking" shapes for on-screen
presentations, not for creating detailed items for machining.

Sketchup models can _look_ pretty, but they aren't representations of any
real solids, and cannot be used (even crudely) for creating a part from a
drawing, unless measurements don't matter a whit. Even then, it's a
stone bitch to translate a Sketchup model into something CAM can handle.

I'm saying all this from the perspective of a (past) _heavy_ user of both
Sketchup and several true 3D CADs. It doesn't sound to me like you have
extensive experience with either genre.

LLoyd

Swingman kac nospam.com wrote:

Leon wrote:

Until I learned to use Sketchup sufficiently I had that
problem too. What you are describing is not a problem that I
have noticed any more.

Can't blame the software for operator ignorance.

Lloyd definitely has a short between the keyboard and chair by
exhibiting his ignorance above of SU's "inference engine", which
he has apparently failed to understand.

Or he's trolling for more information...

I probably won't use it frequently, and not for very complex stuff,
so ease-of-use is most important to me.

Thanks to the replies.

On 11/21/2013 8:13 AM, Leon wrote:
On 11/21/2013 7:53 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Swingman fired this volley in
:

They both have their strong points and, as with any tool, the choice
and
use depends upon the job.



I defy you to get any precise measurements or 'fits' out of any Sketchup
model.

Define precise, I'm an old AutoCAD user and find that for woodworking
Sketchup is plenty precise.


Vertices don't align, vectors overlap and/or mis-match at ends,
'snap' points randomly 'fly' to other dimensions, textures just 'float'



All of the above are why DesignCAD's unique "gravity snap" feature is so
important. Fine that point easily and accurately.

Some of my work...
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/draft.htm

On 11/21/2013 8:25 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/21/2013 7:53 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I'm saying all this from the perspective of a (past)_heavy_ user of both
Sketchup and several true 3D CADs. It doesn't sound to me like you have
extensive experience with either genre.

Oh, no more than a few million dollar homes, dozens of kitchens, and
countless remodels, hundreds of cabinets and furniture projects, all
using SU to good effect for _accurate_ shop drawings, design, including
construction documents for permitting, bid and build, four shared
collections on 3D Warehouse, with over 40 separate models of furniture
and cabinetry.

Many, but not nearly all can be seen below ... .. let your fingers do
the walking.

Now, can you show us yours?

BTW, you apparently are the ignorant one regarding "precision".

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad, 1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...




1/1000th inch? Is that all???

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad, 1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...


1/1000th inch? Is that all???

LOL

Good enough for AutoCAD, and certainly well within the specifications of
the OP's original request.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 00:09:04 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Things I want to draw...
...wood boards
...aluminum flat bar, square tube, round tube, rod
...holes through materials
...bolts, washers, and nuts
...wheels
In other words, I want to draw things you might make at home.

Is 2-D CAD appropriate for drawing three-dimensional objects, like
boxes? Do they typically allow you to enter a third dimension when
placing an object? I don't mind having limited views, like a front
view and a side view, but most of us work with three-dimensional
objects...

Thanks.

2-D Cad is exactly what 2-D says -- it is two dimensional, period. But
if all you want to do is draw, not design, you will have more
functionality than you need with pretty much any 2-D package.

On the other hand, if you want to DESIGN in 3 dimensions, a 2-D
package is about as useless as a screen door on a submarine. Others
have mentioned AutoCAD and SketchUp and I have heard they work well.

Personally, I use Pro-Engineer for the simple reason that I didn't
have to take the time to learn it. It was what I used as a design
engineer before I retired. The power of Pro-E for designing
woodworking projects is like hitting a thumb tack with a sledge
hammer. But it sure is easy for me!

On 11/21/2013 8:40 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/21/2013 8:13 AM, Leon wrote:
On 11/21/2013 7:53 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:


I defy you to get any precise measurements or 'fits' out of any Sketchup
model.

Define precise, I'm an old AutoCAD user and find that for woodworking
Sketchup is plenty precise.


Vertices don't align, vectors overlap and/or mis-match at ends,
'snap' points randomly 'fly' to other dimensions, textures just 'float'

Until I learned to use Sketchup sufficiently I had that problem too.
What you are describing is not a problem that I have noticed any more.

Can't blame the software for operator ignorance.

Lloyd definitely has a short between the keyboard and chair by
exhibiting his ignorance above of SU's "inference engine", which he has
apparently failed to understand.

The "precision" of SU can be fully realized/appreciated when using Ruby
Scripts, bypassing the inference engine altogether.

But then again, that takes an in-depth understanding of the internal
operation of the program, the ignorance of which makes mistaking opinion
for fact, as the first above.


I'm saying all this from the perspective of a (past) _heavy_ user of
both
Sketchup and several true 3D CADs. It doesn't sound to me like you have
extensive experience with either genre.

Nor you.

LOL ... it's been pretty well demonstrated where that "extensive
experience" is lacking.




Maybe he has only installed and used the program two times. If you will
recall you and I had to install it 3 times before the light came on. LOL

On 11/21/2013 11:20 AM, John Doe wrote:
Swingman kac nospam.com wrote:

Leon wrote:

Until I learned to use Sketchup sufficiently I had that
problem too. What you are describing is not a problem that I
have noticed any more.

Can't blame the software for operator ignorance.

Lloyd definitely has a short between the keyboard and chair by
exhibiting his ignorance above of SU's "inference engine", which
he has apparently failed to understand.

Or he's trolling for more information...

I probably won't use it frequently, and not for very complex stuff,
so ease-of-use is most important to me.

Thanks to the replies.



For drawing simple 3D shapes It cant get much simpler than with Sketchup
and it can probably meet any future need you might have for some time to
come.

On 11/21/2013 11:21 AM, Richard wrote:
On 11/21/2013 8:13 AM, Leon wrote:
On 11/21/2013 7:53 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Swingman fired this volley in
:

They both have their strong points and, as with any tool, the choice
and
use depends upon the job.



I defy you to get any precise measurements or 'fits' out of any Sketchup
model.

Define precise, I'm an old AutoCAD user and find that for woodworking
Sketchup is plenty precise.


Vertices don't align, vectors overlap and/or mis-match at ends,
'snap' points randomly 'fly' to other dimensions, textures just 'float'



All of the above are why DesignCAD's unique "gravity snap" feature is so
important. Fine that point easily and accurately.

Some of my work...
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/draft.htm



I really don't have any issues with snapping while using Sketchup unless
the drawing is zoomed out too much and there are several end points that
are closer together than the snap cursor. Simply zoom in and there is
no issue at all.

On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:
On 11/21/2013 8:25 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/21/2013 7:53 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I'm saying all this from the perspective of a (past)_heavy_ user of both
Sketchup and several true 3D CADs. It doesn't sound to me like you have
extensive experience with either genre.

Oh, no more than a few million dollar homes, dozens of kitchens, and
countless remodels, hundreds of cabinets and furniture projects, all
using SU to good effect for _accurate_ shop drawings, design, including
construction documents for permitting, bid and build, four shared
collections on 3D Warehouse, with over 40 separate models of furniture
and cabinetry.

Many, but not nearly all can be seen below ... .. let your fingers do
the walking.

Now, can you show us yours?

BTW, you apparently are the ignorant one regarding "precision".

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad, 1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...




1/1000th inch? Is that all???


LOL
I'm a stickler for precision, but WTF do you need better tolerances than
1/1000 inch when woodworking? :~)

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com on Thu, 21 Nov
2013 07:53:57 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Swingman fired this volley in
m:

They both have their strong points and, as with any tool, the choice
and use depends upon the job.

'modeling' is a pretty loose term as pertains to Sketchup.

Using Sketchup, I've build full photo-realistic panoramic 'models' of
theme park sets for designing fireworks presentations. I love it for
what it's intended to do. It's simple, quick, and CRUDE. You don't seem
to quite understand what underlies its drawings.

I think that is given away in the name. After all, it is called
"Sketch up" not "Drafting".

As any engineer/designer will tell you - everything starts with a
"sketch", be it a literal "drawing on a paper napkin" to "it will sort
of look like this ..." drawing in a CAD Program. Just show shapes,
relationships and maybe some sizes. What will eventually wind up
plotted on a C size page started as "isometric" shapes quickly
sketched on notepaper, "with circles and arrows and a paragraph ...
describing what each one was..."

tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet on Thu, 21 Nov 2013 13:34:39 -0600 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:
On 11/21/2013 8:25 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/21/2013 7:53 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I'm saying all this from the perspective of a (past)_heavy_ user of both
Sketchup and several true 3D CADs. It doesn't sound to me like you have
extensive experience with either genre.

Oh, no more than a few million dollar homes, dozens of kitchens, and
countless remodels, hundreds of cabinets and furniture projects, all
using SU to good effect for _accurate_ shop drawings, design, including
construction documents for permitting, bid and build, four shared
collections on 3D Warehouse, with over 40 separate models of furniture
and cabinetry.

Many, but not nearly all can be seen below ... .. let your fingers do
the walking.

Now, can you show us yours?

BTW, you apparently are the ignorant one regarding "precision".

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad, 1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...

1/1000th inch? Is that all???

LOL
I'm a stickler for precision, but WTF do you need better tolerances than
1/1000 inch when woodworking? :~)

B-) wood moves that much if you breath on it.

Sides, with wood, "Cut to fit, sand to shape, paint to match." B-)
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

John Doe wrote:
Swingman kac nospam.com wrote:

Leon wrote:

Until I learned to use Sketchup sufficiently I had that
problem too. What you are describing is not a problem that I
have noticed any more.
Can't blame the software for operator ignorance.

Lloyd definitely has a short between the keyboard and chair by
exhibiting his ignorance above of SU's "inference engine", which
he has apparently failed to understand.

Or he's trolling for more information...

I probably won't use it frequently, and not for very complex stuff,
so ease-of-use is most important to me.

Thanks to the replies.

I use it a LOT. How precise it is depends entirely on the user. There
are tons of add-ons and scripts that can make it much more powerful.

--
Steve W.

pyotr filipivich fired this volley in
:

"with circles and arrows and a paragraph ...
describing what each one was..."

To be used as evidence against us!
L

On 11/21/2013 1:34 PM, Leon wrote:
On 11/21/2013 11:22 AM, Richard wrote:
On 11/21/2013 8:25 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/21/2013 7:53 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I'm saying all this from the perspective of a (past)_heavy_ user of
both
Sketchup and several true 3D CADs. It doesn't sound to me like you have
extensive experience with either genre.

Oh, no more than a few million dollar homes, dozens of kitchens, and
countless remodels, hundreds of cabinets and furniture projects, all
using SU to good effect for _accurate_ shop drawings, design, including
construction documents for permitting, bid and build, four shared
collections on 3D Warehouse, with over 40 separate models of furniture
and cabinetry.

Many, but not nearly all can be seen below ... .. let your fingers do
the walking.

Now, can you show us yours?

BTW, you apparently are the ignorant one regarding "precision".

SketchUp actually has the same internal precision as AutoCad, 1/1000th
of an inch.

Look it up ...




1/1000th inch? Is that all???


LOL
I'm a stickler for precision, but WTF do you need better tolerances than
1/1000 inch when woodworking? :~)


I don't use Design CAD for woodworking only.

microns, angstroms, etc?

On 11/21/2013 12:39 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 00:09:04 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Things I want to draw...
...wood boards
...aluminum flat bar, square tube, round tube, rod
...holes through materials
...bolts, washers, and nuts
...wheels
In other words, I want to draw things you might make at home.

Is 2-D CAD appropriate for drawing three-dimensional objects, like
boxes? Do they typically allow you to enter a third dimension when
placing an object? I don't mind having limited views, like a front
view and a side view, but most of us work with three-dimensional
objects...

Thanks.

2-D Cad is exactly what 2-D says -- it is two dimensional, period. But
if all you want to do is draw, not design, you will have more
functionality than you need with pretty much any 2-D package.

On the other hand, if you want to DESIGN in 3 dimensions, a 2-D
package is about as useless as a screen door on a submarine. Others
have mentioned AutoCAD and SketchUp and I have heard they work well.

Personally, I use Pro-Engineer for the simple reason that I didn't
have to take the time to learn it. It was what I used as a design
engineer before I retired. The power of Pro-E for designing
woodworking projects is like hitting a thumb tack with a sledge
hammer. But it sure is easy for me!


I did a lot of 3D work on a drafting table, so I disagree with what you
said here. A LOT of drafting was done before computers evolved to help out.

On 11/21/2013 2:04 PM, Steve W. wrote:

I use it a LOT. How precise it is depends entirely on the user. There
are tons of add-ons and scripts that can make it much more powerful.


Yeah buddy.

Having a strong background in CAD, I first starting using SketchUp about
eight years ago, and shortly thereafter built a $350k construction
budget residence, using it to provide the framing plan and all
permitting, bidding and construction documents (in conjunction with
Layout), I quickly became a believer in the programs power and versatility.

At that time not a single architect I worked with had heard of the
program. Things have changed, and folks like this architect have taken
SketchUp to a new level, architecturally speaking:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...rchitect&sm=12

AAMOF, I'm currently actively advising an architect on use of the
program, as well as Layout, as we speak, which is poetic justice ... as
it is damned hard for a General Contractor/Builder to teach an architect
anything.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/21/2013 2:19 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
pyotr fired this volley in
:

"with circles and arrows and a paragraph ...
describing what each one was..."

To be used as evidence against us!
L


Oh No, not that Thanksgiving Day Masacree again!

On 11/21/2013 2:22 PM, Richard wrote:
On 11/21/2013 12:39 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 00:09:04 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Things I want to draw...
...wood boards
...aluminum flat bar, square tube, round tube, rod
...holes through materials
...bolts, washers, and nuts
...wheels
In other words, I want to draw things you might make at home.

Is 2-D CAD appropriate for drawing three-dimensional objects, like
boxes? Do they typically allow you to enter a third dimension when
placing an object? I don't mind having limited views, like a front
view and a side view, but most of us work with three-dimensional
objects...

Thanks.

2-D Cad is exactly what 2-D says -- it is two dimensional, period. But
if all you want to do is draw, not design, you will have more
functionality than you need with pretty much any 2-D package.

On the other hand, if you want to DESIGN in 3 dimensions, a 2-D
package is about as useless as a screen door on a submarine. Others
have mentioned AutoCAD and SketchUp and I have heard they work well.

Personally, I use Pro-Engineer for the simple reason that I didn't
have to take the time to learn it. It was what I used as a design
engineer before I retired. The power of Pro-E for designing
woodworking projects is like hitting a thumb tack with a sledge
hammer. But it sure is easy for me!


I did a lot of 3D work on a drafting table, so I disagree with what you
said here. A LOT of drafting was done before computers evolved to help
out.


Well, he did specifically say 2-D CAD. I too was formally trained long
before computers and drew isometric. But none of my drawings and or the
2D CAD programs let you spin the 3D object or view inside out. ;~)

IIRC AutoCAD LT was able to do isometric drawings but you could not
change the angle of view of that object. That was several years ago so
maybe things have changed with the software.

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 14:22:50 -0600, Richard
wrote:

On 11/21/2013 12:39 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 00:09:04 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Things I want to draw...
...wood boards
...aluminum flat bar, square tube, round tube, rod
...holes through materials
...bolts, washers, and nuts
...wheels
In other words, I want to draw things you might make at home.

Is 2-D CAD appropriate for drawing three-dimensional objects, like
boxes? Do they typically allow you to enter a third dimension when
placing an object? I don't mind having limited views, like a front
view and a side view, but most of us work with three-dimensional
objects...

Thanks.

2-D Cad is exactly what 2-D says -- it is two dimensional, period. But
if all you want to do is draw, not design, you will have more
functionality than you need with pretty much any 2-D package.

On the other hand, if you want to DESIGN in 3 dimensions, a 2-D
package is about as useless as a screen door on a submarine. Others
have mentioned AutoCAD and SketchUp and I have heard they work well.

Personally, I use Pro-Engineer for the simple reason that I didn't
have to take the time to learn it. It was what I used as a design
engineer before I retired. The power of Pro-E for designing
woodworking projects is like hitting a thumb tack with a sledge
hammer. But it sure is easy for me!


I did a lot of 3D work on a drafting table, so I disagree with what you
said here. A LOT of drafting was done before computers evolved to help out.


Tell me what was designed on a board that wasn't 3D??? What did I say
that you disagree with... the part about the screen door being
useless?

On 11/21/2013 4:53 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 14:22:50 -0600, Richard
wrote:

On 11/21/2013 12:39 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 00:09:04 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Things I want to draw...
...wood boards
...aluminum flat bar, square tube, round tube, rod
...holes through materials
...bolts, washers, and nuts
...wheels
In other words, I want to draw things you might make at home.

Is 2-D CAD appropriate for drawing three-dimensional objects, like
boxes? Do they typically allow you to enter a third dimension when
placing an object? I don't mind having limited views, like a front
view and a side view, but most of us work with three-dimensional
objects...

Thanks.

2-D Cad is exactly what 2-D says -- it is two dimensional, period. But
if all you want to do is draw, not design, you will have more
functionality than you need with pretty much any 2-D package.

On the other hand, if you want to DESIGN in 3 dimensions, a 2-D
package is about as useless as a screen door on a submarine. Others
have mentioned AutoCAD and SketchUp and I have heard they work well.

Personally, I use Pro-Engineer for the simple reason that I didn't
have to take the time to learn it. It was what I used as a design
engineer before I retired. The power of Pro-E for designing
woodworking projects is like hitting a thumb tack with a sledge
hammer. But it sure is easy for me!


I did a lot of 3D work on a drafting table, so I disagree with what you
said here. A LOT of drafting was done before computers evolved to help out.


Tell me what was designed on a board that wasn't 3D??? What did I say
that you disagree with... the part about the screen door being
useless?

I noticed that this thread is cross posted and apparently some of the AR
responders are taking parts of what we say and rewording those comments
to compose arguments into what they apparently think makes them look
like experts.

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 13:18:14 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 11/21/2013 8:40 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/21/2013 8:13 AM, Leon wrote:
On 11/21/2013 7:53 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:


I defy you to get any precise measurements or 'fits' out of any Sketchup
model.

Define precise, I'm an old AutoCAD user and find that for woodworking
Sketchup is plenty precise.


Vertices don't align, vectors overlap and/or mis-match at ends,
'snap' points randomly 'fly' to other dimensions, textures just 'float'

Until I learned to use Sketchup sufficiently I had that problem too.
What you are describing is not a problem that I have noticed any more.

Can't blame the software for operator ignorance.

Lloyd definitely has a short between the keyboard and chair by
exhibiting his ignorance above of SU's "inference engine", which he has
apparently failed to understand.

The "precision" of SU can be fully realized/appreciated when using Ruby
Scripts, bypassing the inference engine altogether.

But then again, that takes an in-depth understanding of the internal
operation of the program, the ignorance of which makes mistaking opinion
for fact, as the first above.


I'm saying all this from the perspective of a (past) _heavy_ user of
both
Sketchup and several true 3D CADs. It doesn't sound to me like you have
extensive experience with either genre.

Nor you.

LOL ... it's been pretty well demonstrated where that "extensive
experience" is lacking.




Maybe he has only installed and used the program two times. If you will
recall you and I had to install it 3 times before the light came on. LOL

I think it was Swingman who turned the light on for me, finally
getting it through my filter that it wasn't a CAD program, rather a 3D
modeling program. I picked it up really quickly after that
realization.

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 18:51:58 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 11/21/2013 4:53 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 14:22:50 -0600, Richard
wrote:

On 11/21/2013 12:39 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 00:09:04 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Things I want to draw...
...wood boards
...aluminum flat bar, square tube, round tube, rod
...holes through materials
...bolts, washers, and nuts
...wheels
In other words, I want to draw things you might make at home.

Is 2-D CAD appropriate for drawing three-dimensional objects, like
boxes? Do they typically allow you to enter a third dimension when
placing an object? I don't mind having limited views, like a front
view and a side view, but most of us work with three-dimensional
objects...

Thanks.

2-D Cad is exactly what 2-D says -- it is two dimensional, period. But
if all you want to do is draw, not design, you will have more
functionality than you need with pretty much any 2-D package.

On the other hand, if you want to DESIGN in 3 dimensions, a 2-D
package is about as useless as a screen door on a submarine. Others
have mentioned AutoCAD and SketchUp and I have heard they work well.

Personally, I use Pro-Engineer for the simple reason that I didn't
have to take the time to learn it. It was what I used as a design
engineer before I retired. The power of Pro-E for designing
woodworking projects is like hitting a thumb tack with a sledge
hammer. But it sure is easy for me!


I did a lot of 3D work on a drafting table, so I disagree with what you
said here. A LOT of drafting was done before computers evolved to help out.


Tell me what was designed on a board that wasn't 3D??? What did I say
that you disagree with... the part about the screen door being
useless?

I noticed that this thread is cross posted and apparently some of the AR
responders are taking parts of what we say and rewording those comments
to compose arguments into what they apparently think makes them look
like experts.


Are you trying to tell me they are democrats?!

On 11/21/2013 8:13 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Are you trying to tell me they are democrats?!



--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/21/2013 7:29 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In ,
John wrote:
Leonlcb11211 swbelldotnet wrote:

Your absolutely best bet would be to down load Sketchup Make
2013. Do a Google search it to find it. Free 3D drawing and
countless YouTube videos to watch as tutorials.

The Pro version has "solid modeling tools". Is that something
important the free version doesn't have?

I think it's several hundred dollars for the pro version. Do
you need solid modelling that badly? I know I don't.

I had a chance to get the pro version for free once. I didn't
bother. The free version really did all I needed.


I'm also fond of AutoDesk inventor. It's rather expensive,
though.

Autodesk also has a suite of free products under the "123D" name.
I'll bet their cad program is pretty good.



Blender is better...

http://www.blender.org/
http://www.blender.org/support/tutorials/

My 2¢

On 11/21/2013 8:13 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 18:51:58 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 11/21/2013 4:53 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 14:22:50 -0600, Richard
wrote:

On 11/21/2013 12:39 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 00:09:04 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Things I want to draw...
...wood boards
...aluminum flat bar, square tube, round tube, rod
...holes through materials
...bolts, washers, and nuts
...wheels
In other words, I want to draw things you might make at home.

Is 2-D CAD appropriate for drawing three-dimensional objects, like
boxes? Do they typically allow you to enter a third dimension when
placing an object? I don't mind having limited views, like a front
view and a side view, but most of us work with three-dimensional
objects...

Thanks.

2-D Cad is exactly what 2-D says -- it is two dimensional, period. But
if all you want to do is draw, not design, you will have more
functionality than you need with pretty much any 2-D package.

On the other hand, if you want to DESIGN in 3 dimensions, a 2-D
package is about as useless as a screen door on a submarine. Others
have mentioned AutoCAD and SketchUp and I have heard they work well.

Personally, I use Pro-Engineer for the simple reason that I didn't
have to take the time to learn it. It was what I used as a design
engineer before I retired. The power of Pro-E for designing
woodworking projects is like hitting a thumb tack with a sledge
hammer. But it sure is easy for me!


I did a lot of 3D work on a drafting table, so I disagree with what you
said here. A LOT of drafting was done before computers evolved to help out.


Tell me what was designed on a board that wasn't 3D??? What did I say
that you disagree with... the part about the screen door being
useless?

I noticed that this thread is cross posted and apparently some of the AR
responders are taking parts of what we say and rewording those comments
to compose arguments into what they apparently think makes them look
like experts.


Are you trying to tell me they are democrats?!



Well I was trying to not go potty mouth but now it is out there and it
can't be unsaid. ;~)