SWMBO left heavy flower pots on each end of our 48" unsupported step
made out of Trex this summer, and the Trex boards warped (very bad--more
than 2").

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the blame. ; )

Here is a drawing of the current design along with my proposed solution:
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg

Questions:
1. I would prefer to use screws (rather than nails) to add new
structural support, so I don't cause damage. 2.5", pre-drilled?

2. In the diagram of my proposed solution, I would have screws being
(not) held by end grain. I know that this is a problem.. What is a
smart, easy and inexpensive way to get around this here? It looks like
I need a brace/bracket of some sort. I would like my repair to last! : )

3. One of the new 5.5" wide Trex boards will have to be "ripped" to
4.25". Is the stuff difficult to cut? Can I use a cheap 40 or 60 tooth
blade (do I need to use a router)? The Trex website suggests a 40-tooth
"carbide tipped" blade and/or router, I believe. I can practice on the
stuff I remove, but as soon as I remove any, I'm going to create a
"safety hazard". I haven't even bought the new Trex yet, I'm just planning.

Here is a copy of the SU file, if anyone would care to use it.
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/DeckSteps.skp

(Thanks)
Bill

On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:31:09 -0400, Bill
wrote:



Questions:
1. I would prefer to use screws (rather than nails) to add new
structural support, so I don't cause damage. 2.5", pre-drilled?

I'd do that.



3. One of the new 5.5" wide Trex boards will have to be "ripped" to
4.25". Is the stuff difficult to cut? Can I use a cheap 40 or 60 tooth
blade (do I need to use a router)? The Trex website suggests a 40-tooth
"carbide tipped" blade and/or router, I believe.


What do you mean by "cheap"? A steel blade with no carbide? No, I'd
not use that. Like any other product, the better the blade, the
better the cut but this is a deck, not heirloom furniture so most any
carbide blade will work.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:31:09 -0400, Bill
wrote:



Questions:
1. I would prefer to use screws (rather than nails) to add new
structural support, so I don't cause damage. 2.5", pre-drilled?
I'd do that.



3. One of the new 5.5" wide Trex boards will have to be "ripped" to
4.25". Is the stuff difficult to cut? Can I use a cheap 40 or 60 tooth
blade (do I need to use a router)? The Trex website suggests a 40-tooth
"carbide tipped" blade and/or router, I believe.

What do you mean by "cheap"? A steel blade with no carbide? No, I'd
not use that. Like any other product, the better the blade, the
better the cut but this is a deck, not heirloom furniture so most any
carbide blade will work.
TYVM, that's just what I wanted to know!

On 9/8/2013 5:31 PM, Bill wrote:
SWMBO left heavy flower pots on each end of our 48" unsupported step
made out of Trex this summer, and the Trex boards warped (very bad--more
than 2").

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the blame. ; )

Here is a drawing of the current design along with my proposed solution:
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg

Questions:
1. I would prefer to use screws (rather than nails) to add new
structural support, so I don't cause damage. 2.5", pre-drilled?

2. In the diagram of my proposed solution, I would have screws being
(not) held by end grain. I know that this is a problem.. What is a
smart, easy and inexpensive way to get around this here? It looks like
I need a brace/bracket of some sort. I would like my repair to last! : )

SHOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM, BUT IF YOU WANT TO USE STANDARD JOIST HANGERS,
UNDER $2.. https://www.google.com/#q=JOIST+HANGER

3. One of the new 5.5" wide Trex boards will have to be "ripped" to
4.25". Is the stuff difficult to cut? Can I use a cheap 40 or 60 tooth
blade (do I need to use a router)? The Trex website suggests a 40-tooth
"carbide tipped" blade and/or router, I believe. I can practice on the
stuff I remove, but as soon as I remove any, I'm going to create a
"safety hazard". I haven't even bought the new Trex yet, I'm just
planning.

Here is a copy of the SU file, if anyone would care to use it.
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/DeckSteps.skp

(Thanks)
Bill


--
Jeff

"Bill" wrote in message ...

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the blame. ; )

Here is a drawing of the current design along with my proposed solution:
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg

Based on your drawing it appears that there would be room to screw a ledger
board on each of the long sides of the framing and then rest the new
"joists" on the ledger boards and secure them by screwing into the end
grain. The ledger board will support much of the load... they could be
ripped from 5/4" PT decking.

John

woodchucker wrote:
On 9/8/2013 5:31 PM, Bill wrote:
SWMBO left heavy flower pots on each end of our 48" unsupported step
made out of Trex this summer, and the Trex boards warped (very bad--more
than 2").

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the blame. ; )

Here is a drawing of the current design along with my proposed solution:
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg


2. In the diagram of my proposed solution, I would have screws being
(not) held by end grain. I know that this is a problem.. What is a
smart, easy and inexpensive way to get around this here? It looks like
I need a brace/bracket of some sort. I would like my repair to last!
: )

SHOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM, BUT IF YOU WANT TO USE STANDARD JOIST
HANGERS, UNDER $2.. https://www.google.com/#q=JOIST+HANGER

There is a little less wood and cutting with that approach too. I am
also pleased to finally understand "joist hangers". I've seen them in
the store but I didn't "get it" until just now, when I saw a diagram of
one "in use".

The whole "box" appears to be coming loose at one corner too and I am
pretty sure that the store will have a part next to the joist hangers
that will be perfect for that as well!

Does it follow that most "galvanized parts" like this are suitable for
non-oceanic (salt) EXTERIOR use?

Thank you much!
Bill

John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message ...

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the blame. ; )

Here is a drawing of the current design along with my proposed solution:
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg

Based on your drawing it appears that there would be room to screw a
ledger board on each of the long sides of the framing and then rest
the new "joists" on the ledger boards and secure them by screwing into
the end grain. The ledger board will support much of the load... they
could be ripped from 5/4" PT decking.

John
John, That is a clever idea. I thought of using a "ledger board" (not in
those words) in the position you described, but then I thought of laying
the "joists" flat--and there is too much wrong with that approach. Your
idea on the other hand would work. I am going to try the "joist
hangers" woodchucker suggested because I've never used them before. I'm
also going to up it to 3 "joists" instead of just 2 (12 inches between
centers). The rest of the deck has joists at 13" centers, and we are not
that light on our toes around here...

I better get it done before I decide it needs a coat of paint or stain
(which it might...)!

Thank you!
Bill

Bill wrote:
SWMBO left heavy flower pots on each end of our 48" unsupported step
made out of Trex this summer, and the Trex boards warped (very
bad--more than 2").

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the blame. ; )

Here is a drawing of the current design along with my proposed
solution: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg

Questions:
1. I would prefer to use screws (rather than nails) to add new
structural support, so I don't cause damage. 2.5", pre-drilled?

2. In the diagram of my proposed solution, I would have screws being
(not) held by end grain. I know that this is a problem.. What is a
smart, easy and inexpensive way to get around this here? It looks
like I need a brace/bracket of some sort. I would like my repair to last!
: )
3. One of the new 5.5" wide Trex boards will have to be "ripped" to
4.25". Is the stuff difficult to cut? Can I use a cheap 40 or 60
tooth blade (do I need to use a router)? The Trex website suggests a
40-tooth "carbide tipped" blade and/or router, I believe. I can
practice on the stuff I remove, but as soon as I remove any, I'm
going to create a "safety hazard". I haven't even bought the new
Trex yet, I'm just planning.
Here is a copy of the SU file, if anyone would care to use it.
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/DeckSteps.skp

(Thanks)
Bill

Unless you simply don't want to see the fasteners in the face boards, there
is no reason you can't screw through them and into the end grain of the
supports you're going to put in. That would be a common approach to
something like this.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
SWMBO left heavy flower pots on each end of our 48" unsupported step
made out of Trex this summer, and the Trex boards warped (very
bad--more than 2").

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the blame. ; )

Here is a drawing of the current design along with my proposed
solution: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg

Questions:
1. I would prefer to use screws (rather than nails) to add new
structural support, so I don't cause damage. 2.5", pre-drilled?

2. In the diagram of my proposed solution, I would have screws being
(not) held by end grain. I know that this is a problem.. What is a
smart, easy and inexpensive way to get around this here? It looks
like I need a brace/bracket of some sort. I would like my repair to last!
: )
3. One of the new 5.5" wide Trex boards will have to be "ripped" to
4.25". Is the stuff difficult to cut? Can I use a cheap 40 or 60
tooth blade (do I need to use a router)? The Trex website suggests a
40-tooth "carbide tipped" blade and/or router, I believe. I can
practice on the stuff I remove, but as soon as I remove any, I'm
going to create a "safety hazard". I haven't even bought the new
Trex yet, I'm just planning.
Here is a copy of the SU file, if anyone would care to use it.
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/DeckSteps.skp

(Thanks)
Bill
Unless you simply don't want to see the fasteners in the face boards, there
is no reason you can't screw through them and into the end grain of the
supports you're going to put in. That would be a common approach to
something like this.
I appreciate your comment! I'd feel better about using that approach if
the rest of the "box" looked rock-solid. The joist-hanger approach will
evidently add some structural support to it, and that may be a good thing.

Bill

Bill wrote:

I appreciate your comment! I'd feel better about using that approach
if the rest of the "box" looked rock-solid. The joist-hanger
approach will evidently add some structural support to it, and that
may be a good thing.

Of course what you do is your choice, but the joist hangers won't add any
more structural support than simply screwing or nailing the cross pieces in.
Joist hangers only hang the cross pieces, they don't add structural support.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

I appreciate your comment! I'd feel better about using that approach
if the rest of the "box" looked rock-solid. The joist-hanger
approach will evidently add some structural support to it, and that
may be a good thing.
Of course what you do is your choice, but the joist hangers won't add any
more structural support than simply screwing or nailing the cross pieces in.
Joist hangers only hang the cross pieces, they don't add structural support.

Yes, you are probably right. I was probably thinking about them
incorrectly. My bad.
I will bolster at least one corner of the "box" for more structural
support--before it falls apart on its own! : )
Bill

"Bill" wrote in message

SWMBO left heavy flower pots on each end of our 48"
unsupported step made out of Trex this summer, and the Trex boards warped
(very bad--more than 2").

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the
blame. ; )
Here is a drawing of the current design along with my
proposed solution:
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg
Questions:
1. I would prefer to use screws (rather than nails) to
add new structural support, so I don't cause damage. 2.5",
pre-drilled?
2. In the diagram of my proposed solution, I would have
screws being (not) held by end grain. I know that this is
a problem.. What is a smart, easy and inexpensive way to get around this
here? It looks like I need a brace/bracket of some sort. I would like my
repair to last! : )

I presume you're talking about attaching the short pieces of the new wood to
the new longer ones.

a. Dump them and attach the new long ones through the old long ones.
Screws/nails into the end grain doesn't matter a bit as their only purpose
here would be to prevent lateral movement.

b. Dump them and use small blocks in their place...screw blocks to existing,
screw new to blocks.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"Bill" wrote in message


I appreciate your comment! I'd feel better about using
that approach if the rest of the "box" looked rock-solid.
The joist-hanger approach will evidently add some
structural support to it, and that may be a good thing.


If the box is wobbly, it is easily made not so with corner blocks.




--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 9/9/2013 5:43 AM, dadiOH wrote:

a. Dump them and attach the new long ones through the old long ones.
Screws/nails into the end grain doesn't matter a bit as their only purpose
here would be to prevent lateral movement.

b. Dump them and use small blocks in their place...screw blocks to existing,
screw new to blocks.




Like a pine/fir/other treated 2by2 (for the "small blocks"), right?
Here, and in the corners (especially the one that is pulling loose).
Sounds good!

Thank you,
Bill

"Bill" wrote in message

On 9/9/2013 5:43 AM, dadiOH wrote:

a. Dump them and attach the new long ones through the
old long ones. Screws/nails into the end grain doesn't
matter a bit as their only purpose here would be to
prevent lateral movement. b. Dump them and use small blocks in their
place...screw blocks to existing, screw new to blocks.




Like a pine/fir/other treated 2by2 (for the "small
blocks"), right? Here, and in the corners (especially the
one that is pulling loose). Sounds good!


Right. Rip a PT 2x4



--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

Trex is engineered for 16" spacing and that is why you had a failure at the
47" space.
The design you show would work.
I would use 2x6 or same size joist hangers.
I avoid sandwiching of boards where possible.
Especially with planters and wet surface.
Trex cut like wax/plastic/sawdust -- in other words it cuts like butter.
I use a 1/4 round on edges.
You may see some bubble air pockets in any rip.
pressure treated material underpinning is best.
Screws work....torque drive 3" stainless best.
They do have special brackets now for trex also.
john

"Bill" wrote in message ...

SWMBO left heavy flower pots on each end of our 48" unsupported step
made out of Trex this summer, and the Trex boards warped (very bad--more
than 2").

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the blame. ; )

Here is a drawing of the current design along with my proposed solution:
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg

Questions:
1. I would prefer to use screws (rather than nails) to add new
structural support, so I don't cause damage. 2.5", pre-drilled?

2. In the diagram of my proposed solution, I would have screws being
(not) held by end grain. I know that this is a problem.. What is a
smart, easy and inexpensive way to get around this here? It looks like
I need a brace/bracket of some sort. I would like my repair to last! : )

3. One of the new 5.5" wide Trex boards will have to be "ripped" to
4.25". Is the stuff difficult to cut? Can I use a cheap 40 or 60 tooth
blade (do I need to use a router)? The Trex website suggests a 40-tooth
"carbide tipped" blade and/or router, I believe. I can practice on the
stuff I remove, but as soon as I remove any, I'm going to create a
"safety hazard". I haven't even bought the new Trex yet, I'm just planning.

Here is a copy of the SU file, if anyone would care to use it.
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/DeckSteps.skp

(Thanks)
Bill

On 9/9/2013 9:41 AM, jloomis wrote:
Trex is engineered for 16" spacing and that is why you had a failure at
the 47" space.
The design you show would work.
I would use 2x6 or same size joist hangers.
I avoid sandwiching of boards where possible.
Especially with planters and wet surface.
Trex cut like wax/plastic/sawdust -- in other words it cuts like butter.
I use a 1/4 round on edges.
You may see some bubble air pockets in any rip.
pressure treated material underpinning is best.
Screws work....torque drive 3" stainless best.
They do have special brackets now for trex also.
john

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge, and your thoroughness!
Bill




"Bill" wrote in message ...

SWMBO left heavy flower pots on each end of our 48" unsupported step
made out of Trex this summer, and the Trex boards warped (very bad--more
than 2").

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the blame. ; )

Here is a drawing of the current design along with my proposed solution:
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg

Questions:
1. I would prefer to use screws (rather than nails) to add new
structural support, so I don't cause damage. 2.5", pre-drilled?

2. In the diagram of my proposed solution, I would have screws being
(not) held by end grain. I know that this is a problem.. What is a
smart, easy and inexpensive way to get around this here? It looks like
I need a brace/bracket of some sort. I would like my repair to last! : )

3. One of the new 5.5" wide Trex boards will have to be "ripped" to
4.25". Is the stuff difficult to cut? Can I use a cheap 40 or 60 tooth
blade (do I need to use a router)? The Trex website suggests a 40-tooth
"carbide tipped" blade and/or router, I believe. I can practice on the
stuff I remove, but as soon as I remove any, I'm going to create a
"safety hazard". I haven't even bought the new Trex yet, I'm just
planning.

Here is a copy of the SU file, if anyone would care to use it.
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/DeckSteps.skp

(Thanks)
Bill

jloomis wrote:
Trex is engineered for 16" spacing and that is why you had a failure
at the 47" space.
The design you show would work.
I would use 2x6 or same size joist hangers.
I avoid sandwiching of boards where possible.
Especially with planters and wet surface.
Trex cut like wax/plastic/sawdust -- in other words it cuts like butter.
I use a 1/4 round on edges.
You may see some bubble air pockets in any rip.
pressure treated material underpinning is best.
Screws work....torque drive 3" stainless best.
They do have special brackets now for trex also.
john

"Bill" wrote in message ...

SWMBO left heavy flower pots on each end of our 48" unsupported step
made out of Trex this summer, and the Trex boards warped (very bad--more
than 2").

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the blame. ; )

Here is a drawing of the current design along with my proposed solution:
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg

(Thanks)
Bill

Some progress on this has been made. I secured:

- 1" x 5" galvanized Corner braces (2 @ $4.79 each) to help reinforce
the front of the "box" from the inside.
- Joist hangers for 2by4's (6 @ . 78 cents each) to support three
21-inch "beams" accross the box, to help support the Trex. The beams
will thus be 12" between centers.
- $9 worth of 1 1/4" Stainless Steel screws for the hardware above.
- 16 feet of Trex (@ $3.19 per linear-foot = $51 + tax ---ouch!)

I still have a week+ to wait for the Trex material to arrive. Note to
self: Borrow 40 deck-screws from the neighbors deck, three or four at a
time. ; )

In the meantime, here is my question:

These 2x4 joist hangers, as most everyone now knows, are designed so
that besides the 4 nails or screws (and built-in "staples") securing the
hanger, two 10D nails are to be driven, diagonally, through the hanger
and through the beam being supported, into whatever is carrying the
load. These will evidently provide some structural support--in fact,
perhaps as much or more than that provided by the hanger (maybe)? In
my case, 48" 2by8s will be carrying "the load", in fact a somewhat
weathered 2by8s--and it's difficult to consider pounding twelve 10d (3")
nails into them without causing destruction of the existing "box" (so I
am hesitant to do that).

Is there a gentler alternative that makes sense? Obviously, just not
putting nails through the beam is one possibility (though it wouldn't be
as strong, and it might not be as nice if the beams move). Is there a
suitable screw or another suitable nail, etc? Related thoughts?

(Thanks)
Bill


BTW, Swingman, I now better understand why you document how long it
takes to get certain details done (like securing materials). Because, in
reality, things seem to take longer than one might anticipate--and one
will do well to remember that!

Bill wrote:


Is there a gentler alternative that makes sense? Obviously, just not
putting nails through the beam is one possibility (though it wouldn't
be as strong, and it might not be as nice if the beams move). Is
there a suitable screw or another suitable nail, etc? Related
thoughts?

Were none of the other suggestions that folks submitted workable for you
Bill?

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

Is there a gentler alternative that makes sense? Obviously, just not
putting nails through the beam is one possibility (though it wouldn't
be as strong, and it might not be as nice if the beams move). Is
there a suitable screw or another suitable nail, etc? Related
thoughts?
Were none of the other suggestions that folks submitted workable for you
Bill?
Any of them may have worked. I decided to go with the joist-hanger
approach, partly because I've never used them before--and it's been a
learning experience. Didn't you notice the more-authoritative way I
started using words like "beam"? ; )

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

Is there a gentler alternative that makes sense? Obviously, just not
putting nails through the beam is one possibility (though it wouldn't
be as strong, and it might not be as nice if the beams move). Is
there a suitable screw or another suitable nail, etc? Related
thoughts?
Were none of the other suggestions that folks submitted workable for you
Bill?

It appears that you and Woodchucker both already suggested screws
through the end grain (from the outside). I have been so much "in the
present" that I forgot that idea. My bad. I'd still avoid new screws on
the outside if it was a choice. I guess I just need to choose some with
colored heads.

Bill

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

Is there a gentler alternative that makes sense? Obviously, just not
putting nails through the beam is one possibility (though it wouldn't
be as strong, and it might not be as nice if the beams move). Is
there a suitable screw or another suitable nail, etc? Related
thoughts?
Were none of the other suggestions that folks submitted workable for you
Bill?

What "threw me off" were the directions on the joist hanger instructing
me to do something that I did not anticipate... (diagonal 10d nails).

Bill

On 9/18/2013 7:11 PM, Bill wrote:
The beams will thus be 12" between centers.

I don't build as many decks as John, but I have built many houses with
large front porches and balconies using composite decking, and I always
spec that joists in these structures leading to any entry way, and at
least 2' on either side of said entry way, are on 12" centers, not 16".

Not required by either code, or for warranty purposes with composite
decking, but IMNSHO makes for a better product over time in those high
traffic areas.

Nothing indicts the builder's attention to detail worse than walking up
to someone's front door and feeling spring under your feet.

In my case, 48" 2by8s will be
carrying "the load", in fact a somewhat weathered 2by8s--and it's
difficult to consider pounding twelve 10d (3") nails into them without
causing destruction of the existing "box" (so I am hesitant to do
that).

If you're worried about them standing the test of time due to age, go
ahead and "sister" them. (IOW, nail new joists up against the old, and
also into the butting rim joists).


BTW, Swingman, I now better understand why you document how long
it takes to get certain details done (like securing materials). Because,
in reality, things seem to take longer than one might anticipate--and
one will do well to remember that!

The devil, along with lasting success, is always in the details.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 9/19/2013 8:27 AM, Swingman wrote:
I don't build as many decks as John,

Sorry, I thought "Jeff", and my keyboard typed "John" ... go figure!

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 9/19/2013 9:27 AM, Swingman wrote:

If you're worried about them standing the test of time due to age, go
ahead and "sister" them. (IOW, nail new joists up against the old, and
also into the butting rim joists).


Whoever built or repaired the step last time spanned the Trex all 47.5"
without support. I presume it was a quick repair the seller did before
they sold the house. Thanks to the suggestions I've received from the
folks here, I feel confident going forward. I'll post a before and
after pic just for fun. Being warped, it looks rather pitiful now.

BTW, I get to setup my Compound Miter Saw (on my impromptu stand and
jig) for this repair--a tool I've never used before. I appreciate tips
you have already provided about using that tool. If I am able to clamp
the stuff in the miter saw (using my F-clamps), I will.

Bill

On 9/18/2013 11:05 PM, Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

Is there a gentler alternative that makes sense? Obviously, just not
putting nails through the beam is one possibility (though it wouldn't
be as strong, and it might not be as nice if the beams move). Is
there a suitable screw or another suitable nail, etc? Related
thoughts?
Were none of the other suggestions that folks submitted workable for you
Bill?

It appears that you and Woodchucker both already suggested screws
through the end grain (from the outside). I have been so much "in the
present" that I forgot that idea. My bad. I'd still avoid new screws on
the outside if it was a choice. I guess I just need to choose some with
colored heads.

Bill
Did I? I thought I brought the joist hanger up.

Look, it's a stair, not a floor. A floor has to handle thousands of
pounds across it. 20 people in a room, furniture...

Use the joist hanger with some 1 1/4 or 1" screws.. you'll be fine...

--
Jeff

On 9/19/2013 9:30 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 9/19/2013 8:27 AM, Swingman wrote:
I don't build as many decks as John,

Sorry, I thought "Jeff", and my keyboard typed "John" ... go figure!

Geez me again, how did I get this deep... ;-)
And you were right, John Loomis is the guy doing many decks..




--
Jeff

On 9/19/2013 8:17 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 9/18/2013 11:05 PM, Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

Is there a gentler alternative that makes sense? Obviously, just not
putting nails through the beam is one possibility (though it wouldn't
be as strong, and it might not be as nice if the beams move). Is
there a suitable screw or another suitable nail, etc? Related
thoughts?
Were none of the other suggestions that folks submitted workable for you
Bill?

It appears that you and Woodchucker both already suggested screws
through the end grain (from the outside). I have been so much "in the
present" that I forgot that idea. My bad. I'd still avoid new screws on
the outside if it was a choice. I guess I just need to choose some with
colored heads.

Bill
Did I? I thought I brought the joist hanger up.

Well Jeff, you probably did. Sorry if I did not do appropriate
attribution. Screws through the back of the box may indeed be a
problem due to location (I can't crawl under the deck). it's good to
know that you dont' think they are all absolutely necessary. If I can't
reach to the back of the box, I'll compensate from the inside, with
blocks (or equivalent).

I'm still waiting on the new Trex material. Maybe I'll start taking
things apart and playing--I mean practicing, with my saw this weekend.

Bill


Look, it's a stair, not a floor. A floor has to handle thousands of
pounds across it. 20 people in a room, furniture...

Use the joist hanger with some 1 1/4 or 1" screws.. you'll be fine...

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
SWMBO left heavy flower pots on each end of our 48" unsupported step
made out of Trex this summer, and the Trex boards warped (very
bad--more than 2").

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the blame. ; )

Here is a drawing of the current design along with my proposed
solution: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg

Questions:

I picked up the Trex decking last week, now I am waiting on the screws
(dum-de-dum-dum)--would have been nice if the salesman asked me if I
needed matching screws! I took it for granted they would have them in
the store. It also would have been nice if he had handed me back my
credit card, but there it was lying on their counter 2 1/2 hours later,
he was long gone. I picked up my card and sought a salesperson..and he
asked to see my ID. YES, It was at Home Depot. And YES, I feel lucky
that I wasn't arrested for stealing my credit card!!!

But the reason for my post is this "adjustable screw depth setter" I ran
across:

http://www.menards.com/main/tools-ha...68-c-10156.htm

Is this accessory the secret to beautiful deck screws (that is, will it
give superior results compared to the clutch on my Bosch drill)? Note: I
will be using "square head" deck screws. Can I (I mean, dare I?) use it
with my impact driver?

Thank you,
Bill

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
SWMBO left heavy flower pots on each end of our 48" unsupported step
made out of Trex this summer, and the Trex boards warped (very
bad--more than 2").

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the blame. ; )

Here is a drawing of the current design along with my proposed
solution: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg

Questions:

I picked up the Trex decking last week, now I am waiting on the screws
(dum-de-dum-dum)--would have been nice if the salesman asked me if I
needed matching screws! I took it for granted they would have them in
the store. It also would have been nice if he had handed me back my
credit card, but there it was lying on their counter 2 1/2 hours
later, he was long gone. I picked up my card and sought a
salesperson..and he asked to see my ID. YES, It was at Home Depot.
And YES, I feel lucky that I wasn't arrested for stealing my credit
card!!!

But the reason for my post is this "adjustable screw depth setter" I
ran across:

http://www.menards.com/main/tools-ha...68-c-10156.htm


Is this accessory the secret to beautiful deck screws (that is, will
it give superior results compared to the clutch on my Bosch drill)?
Note: I will be using "square head" deck screws. Can I (I mean, dare
I?) use it with my impact driver?

Thank you,
Bill



This one looks like it might be better for (delicate) deck materials?

http://www.menards.com/main/tools-ha...58-c-10156.htm

On 10/1/2013 4:17 PM, Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
SWMBO left heavy flower pots on each end of our 48" unsupported step
made out of Trex this summer, and the Trex boards warped (very
bad--more than 2").

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the blame. ; )

Here is a drawing of the current design along with my proposed
solution: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg

Questions:

I picked up the Trex decking last week, now I am waiting on the screws
(dum-de-dum-dum)--would have been nice if the salesman asked me if I
needed matching screws! I took it for granted they would have them in
the store. It also would have been nice if he had handed me back my
credit card, but there it was lying on their counter 2 1/2 hours later,
he was long gone. I picked up my card and sought a salesperson..and he
asked to see my ID. YES, It was at Home Depot. And YES, I feel lucky
that I wasn't arrested for stealing my credit card!!!

But the reason for my post is this "adjustable screw depth setter" I ran
across:

http://www.menards.com/main/tools-ha...68-c-10156.htm


Is this accessory the secret to beautiful deck screws (that is, will it
give superior results compared to the clutch on my Bosch drill)? Note: I
will be using "square head" deck screws. Can I (I mean, dare I?) use it
with my impact driver?

Thank you,
Bill


No Bill, that is primarily used for sheetrock. when it reaches the right
depth, it releases the screw head assembly.

--
Jeff

woodchucker wrote:
On 10/1/2013 4:17 PM, Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
SWMBO left heavy flower pots on each end of our 48" unsupported step
made out of Trex this summer, and the Trex boards warped (very
bad--more than 2").

The design looks poor, so that's where I'll point the blame. ; )

Here is a drawing of the current design along with my proposed
solution: http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/deckstep.jpg

Questions:

I picked up the Trex decking last week, now I am waiting on the screws
(dum-de-dum-dum)--would have been nice if the salesman asked me if I
needed matching screws! I took it for granted they would have them in
the store. It also would have been nice if he had handed me back my
credit card, but there it was lying on their counter 2 1/2 hours later,
he was long gone. I picked up my card and sought a salesperson..and he
asked to see my ID. YES, It was at Home Depot. And YES, I feel lucky
that I wasn't arrested for stealing my credit card!!!

But the reason for my post is this "adjustable screw depth setter" I ran
across:

http://www.menards.com/main/tools-ha...68-c-10156.htm



Is this accessory the secret to beautiful deck screws (that is, will it
give superior results compared to the clutch on my Bosch drill)? Note: I
will be using "square head" deck screws. Can I (I mean, dare I?) use it
with my impact driver?

Thank you,
Bill


No Bill, that is primarily used for sheetrock. when it reaches the
right depth, it releases the screw head assembly.

Thank you, Jeff. Yes, your answer is consistent with what I have been
reading in reviews for the last hour or two.
I'll seat the screws by hand, if necessary, to get a good result. I
suspect I'll find out pretty quick what works and what doesn't.

Bill

On 10/01/2013 01:17 PM, Bill wrote:

I picked up the Trex decking last week, now I am waiting on the screws
(dum-de-dum-dum)--would have been nice if the salesman asked me if I
needed matching screws! I took it for granted they would have them in
the store. It also would have been nice if he had handed me back my
credit card, but there it was lying on their counter 2 1/2 hours later,
he was long gone. I picked up my card and sought a salesperson..and he
asked to see my ID. YES, It was at Home Depot. And YES, I feel lucky
that I wasn't arrested for stealing my credit card!!!

But the reason for my post is this "adjustable screw depth setter" I ran
across:

http://www.menards.com/main/tools-ha...68-c-10156.htm


Is this accessory the secret to beautiful deck screws (that is, will it
give superior results compared to the clutch on my Bosch drill)? Note: I
will be using "square head" deck screws. Can I (I mean, dare I?) use it
with my impact driver?

Thank you,
Bill


Might take a look at this:

http://www.kregtool.com/deck-jig-and...-prodlist.html

Bill wrote in
:

I picked up the Trex decking last week, now I am waiting on the screws
(dum-de-dum-dum)--would have been nice if the salesman asked me if I
needed matching screws! I took it for granted they would have them in
the store. It also would have been nice if he had handed me back my
credit card, but there it was lying on their counter 2 1/2 hours
later, he was long gone. I picked up my card and sought a
salesperson..and he asked to see my ID. YES, It was at Home Depot.
And YES, I feel lucky that I wasn't arrested for stealing my credit
card!!!

But the reason for my post is this "adjustable screw depth setter" I
ran across:

http://www.menards.com/main/tools-ha...essories/drive
-bits/disston-adjustable-screw-depth-setter/p-1972968-c-10156.htm

Is this accessory the secret to beautiful deck screws (that is, will
it give superior results compared to the clutch on my Bosch drill)?
Note: I will be using "square head" deck screws. Can I (I mean, dare
I?) use it with my impact driver?

Thank you,
Bill


The impact driver is not a problem. I use it all the time, sometimes
even in places I really shouldn't. (The VCR was dead already.)

The impacting usually begins a short distance before the screw is fully
in, and the forward drive speed drops way down. This makes it very easy
to set the screw to the desired depth.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 10/01/2013 01:17 PM, Bill wrote:

I picked up the Trex decking last week, now I am waiting on the screws
(dum-de-dum-dum)--would have been nice if the salesman asked me if I
needed matching screws! I took it for granted they would have them in
the store. It also would have been nice if he had handed me back my
credit card, but there it was lying on their counter 2 1/2 hours later,
he was long gone. I picked up my card and sought a salesperson..and he
asked to see my ID. YES, It was at Home Depot. And YES, I feel lucky
that I wasn't arrested for stealing my credit card!!!

But the reason for my post is this "adjustable screw depth setter" I ran
across:

http://www.menards.com/main/tools-ha...68-c-10156.htm



Is this accessory the secret to beautiful deck screws (that is, will it
give superior results compared to the clutch on my Bosch drill)? Note: I
will be using "square head" deck screws. Can I (I mean, dare I?) use it
with my impact driver?

Thank you,
Bill


Might take a look at this:

http://www.kregtool.com/deck-jig-and...-prodlist.html

I was going to inquire why the manufacturer of Trex suggests spacing the
decking 3/8" apart (in climates that get below 40 degrees). But it
occurs to me that the answer must be concern about *ice*. I would have
been inclined to push them closer together than that. Certainly the
previous installer did--I had to *pry* out the old "planks" of Trex.

It turns out it was rusted screws (probably not galvanized) that broke
which led to one end of each of the two 21" beams (with 16" between
centers) giving out which led to my warped decking. I'm replacing the
beams, of course. It's all clean and ready to go. Actually, I suspect
the house-seller knew about what was broken and just did a cosmetic
repair since there were only screws on each end of the Trex. That would
be consistent with his sense of "style" exhibited in some other areas...

If I could start over I would do the repair with cheaper
decking/screws. It's pretty stuff though. I'll try not to muck it up
with over-driven screws.

I bought an appropriate new saw blade today. The pieces are coming
together *slowly*, but surely. Thanks for all your help!

Bill

Puckdropper wrote:
The impact driver is not a problem. I use it all the time, sometimes
even in places I really shouldn't.
(The VCR was dead already.)

That's *almost exactly* what I said after I took apart a computer
keyboard to "fix it"! : )



The impacting usually begins a short distance before the screw is
fully in, and the forward drive speed drops way down. This makes it
very easy to set the screw to the desired depth. Puckdropper

Bill wrote in
:

Puckdropper wrote:
The impact driver is not a problem. I use it all the time, sometimes
even in places I really shouldn't.
(The VCR was dead already.)

That's *almost exactly* what I said after I took apart a computer
keyboard to "fix it"! : )



*snip*

Using an impact driver to disassemble a keyboard is just asking for
trouble... Especially if you've got an old IBM that used real springs on
the keys. A little vibration at the wrong time, and you get to test your
knowledge of the keyboard layout. *g*

Oh, and you probably need #1 or #0 Phillips bits. Using the right size
Phillips bit is step 1 in preventing screw misery.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Puckdropper wrote:
Bill wrote in
:

Puckdropper wrote:
The impact driver is not a problem. I use it all the time, sometimes
even in places I really shouldn't.
(The VCR was dead already.)
That's *almost exactly* what I said after I took apart a computer
keyboard to "fix it"! : )



*snip*

Using an impact driver to disassemble a keyboard is just asking for
trouble...
Sorry for any confusion. I didn't use an impact driver. I just had to
humbly remind my wife that "it was dead already".
At least I tried.

Bill wrote in news:l2hg4m01sd1
@news1.newsguy.com:

Puckdropper wrote:

Using an impact driver to disassemble a keyboard is just asking for
trouble...
Sorry for any confusion. I didn't use an impact driver. I just had to
humbly remind my wife that "it was dead already".
At least I tried.



The whole paragraph was in jest. I should have marked it better.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Puckdropper wrote:


Using an impact driver to disassemble a keyboard is just asking for
trouble... Especially if you've got an old IBM that used real springs
on the keys. A little vibration at the wrong time, and you get to
test your knowledge of the keyboard layout. *g*


I completely agree. Besides, everyone knows that's what cutting torches are
for!

--

-Mike-