Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 22:08:32 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:




I really don't think I am over reacting, They are basically saying that
there was no order generated, and that I am at fault with the way I
placed my order. I have a receipt to prove that there was.
Either way I ordered from them because of their reputation and the fact
that if there is a problem they handle it much better than my past
dealings with Amazon when I had a problem. Amazon was less expensive
but I was willing to wait longer, 2 weeks, and pay a bit more for that
ease of mind. My mistake.

They could have handled it better from the start and not blame you.
Could be a lot of reasons it screwed up. OTOH, I wonder how many
people accuse them of late shipments and expect them to eat the cost
of overnight freight?

Well shipping is another matter, LV has no control after the carrier takes
possession of the shipment.
I certainly would not expect LV to cover the shippers mistake. But if LV
takes my order and does nothing with it for 5 days and when I follow up on
the order they know nothing of it and indicate that the receipt and
confirmation number that they issued was never generated, I would expect
them to step up and right the wrong.

NO BIG DEAL FOR ME. I reordered from Amazon at almost exactly the same
price and it should arrive much sooner than replacing the order with LV.






The person you spoke to should have apologized and promised to ship
your order that day, but to upgrade the cost of freight to more than
the profit potential is expecting too much.

Leon, I've always respected your postings here, but this time you did
not come across as the gentleman you usually are. Maybe I'm reading
it wrong, you came across like a spoiled kid that did not get his way.
I hope I'm wrong.

I did not get upset with any one with LV. I simply asked if they could get
the order to me within the same time constraints of the original order with
out it costing me more money. This order in fact is going to be sold to my
customer at my cost and I have already quoted a price. I am not about to
change her price because LV screwed up, that makes me look bad. Fortunately
I plan for situations like these and had plan B in place. FWIW I don't
normally sell at cost but this was an add on to a piece that I am building
for her.

Why have I vented here? I certainly am not advocating that anyone take
their business elsewhere. I am only telling about my last experience and it
would be prudent on a time sensitive order to follow up ASAP whether you
get a receipt and confirmation number on the order or not. Apparently that
bit of information give by LV is not a certainty that they will ship your
order.

If I were Robin Lee I would most certainly want to know why my customers
are being issued receipts and order confirmation orders and my employees
blaming my customers for not doing something right instead of looking into
what is going wrong with the billing system.

And finally the person that needs to know what is going on replies



Thank you Lee. I'm more interested in you knowing what is going on than
looking for any favors.

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 7, 2013, at 12:41 PM, "Lee, Robin" wrote:

Mr Bridges €“

Please accept my apologies for your inconvenience €“ we did not handle your
inquiry well. Ive asked our Chief Customer Officer to look into it, and
youll get a more complete explanation.

Generally, were much better at this type of thing€¦.

Sincerely €“

Rob Lee

"dadiOH" wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

They could have handled it better from the start and not
blame you. Could be a lot of reasons it screwed up.

Both true but from what I've read in this read (not all) I'm thinking that
the problem was that the page timed out before the order was actually
placed.

Normally, when ordering stuff online, you are eventually presented with a
page detailing the order; an invoice, essentially. There is often/usually a
confirmation number too and a suggestion that the purchaser print the page
but the order isn't actually placed until the buyer hits the "Place Order"
or "Submit" or whatever button. Once that is done, gears grind, stuff
whirls, credit card is checked & charged and eventually - if all has gone
well - a new page pops up and thanks you for your order. I rather imagine
that final "Thank you" page didn't pop up for Leon.


Actually with this Lee Valley order I got the print "Receipt" button on the
receipt/confirmation number page after clicking the place order button.

I have to ask, would you think the order was accepted after all of that?

Seriously, What more conformation should I have been looking for?

Anyway I described the steps I went through and they confirmed that after I
got to the print receipt page with the confirmation number there were no
more steps/clicks to be made, the transaction was complete.

Computers are not infallible, the first two reps at LV don't seem to
realize this. I simply wanted them to help me out since I chose them over
Amazon because of their reputation and my past experiences. I allowed
extra lead time as shipping from Canada to Texas is a few days slower than
ordering from Amazon.

On 8/7/2013 11:48 AM, Moderator wrote:

You are way off base, Bubba ... and indeed wrong.


Nice sticky reach-around, Swingy.

C_Less, your sock puppet is showing ...


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 8/7/2013 12:59 PM, Leon wrote:
And finally the person that needs to know what is going on replies



Thank you Lee. I'm more interested in you knowing what is going on than
looking for any favors.

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 7, 2013, at 12:41 PM, "Lee, Robin" wrote:

Mr Bridges €“

Please accept my apologies for your inconvenience €“ we did not handle your
inquiry well. Ive asked our Chief Customer Officer to look into it, and
youll get a more complete explanation.

Generally, were much better at this type of thing€¦.

Sincerely €“

Rob Lee


As I said, there's the man in the operation who demands "service and
attention to detail"; AND is business-wise enough to NOT blame it on the
customer when there is NO evidence to that effect.

You were spot on to both make an issue out of it using all available
avenues, and to make sure those who actually built the business know
what is going on in their organization.

All's well that ends well ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 10:44:27 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

August 1 I ordered 60 rare earth magnets from Lee Valley. I got a
receipt and confirmation number. Checking on the order today they have
no record of the order and are not willing to expedite shipping on the
order unless I am willing to pay an additional $30+ dollars for second
day shipping.

I'm thinking I should pay the original $10 shipping and they pick up the
difference in price to get it here more quickly.

I canceled the order.

Just out of curiosity, was your credit card charged?

"Leon" wrote in message

"dadiOH" wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

They could have handled it better from the start and
not blame you. Could be a lot of reasons it screwed
up.

Both true but from what I've read in this read (not
all) I'm thinking that the problem was that the page
timed out before the order was actually placed.

Normally, when ordering stuff online, you are
eventually presented with a page detailing the order;
an invoice, essentially. There is often/usually a
confirmation number too and a suggestion that the
purchaser print the page but the order isn't actually
placed until the buyer hits the "Place Order" or
"Submit" or whatever button. Once that is done, gears
grind, stuff whirls, credit card is checked & charged
and eventually - if all has gone well - a new page pops
up and thanks you for your order. I rather imagine
that final "Thank you" page didn't pop up for Leon.


Actually with this Lee Valley order I got the print
"Receipt" button on the receipt/confirmation number page
after clicking the place order button.

I have to ask, would you think the order was accepted
after all of that?

Absolutely.

Seriously, What more conformation should I have been
looking for?

Only the email acknowledgement but I don't spend much time looking for those
myself; if one didn't show up, I probably wouldn't even notice.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

And finally!

Hi €“



Yes €“ weve already completed testing and have found the issue (it
appears to be a browser behavior problem €“ but will let the folks
looking into it answer that).



The staff member that replied to you did a poor job €“ and thats being
addressed too.



Cheers €“



Rob Lee

On 8/7/2013 1:04 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 8/7/2013 11:48 AM, Moderator wrote:

You are way off base, Bubba ... and indeed wrong.


Nice sticky reach-around, Swingy.

C_Less, your sock puppet is showing ...




LOL, I knew he was still lurking.

On 8/7/2013 1:29 PM, tommyboy wrote:
On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 10:44:27 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

August 1 I ordered 60 rare earth magnets from Lee Valley. I got a
receipt and confirmation number. Checking on the order today they have
no record of the order and are not willing to expedite shipping on the
order unless I am willing to pay an additional $30+ dollars for second
day shipping.

I'm thinking I should pay the original $10 shipping and they pick up the
difference in price to get it here more quickly.

I canceled the order.

Just out of curiosity, was your credit card charged?



Never hit the card so they indeed lost the order some where along the line.

I did get an explanation from the owner of LV, they ran some tests and
found issues with some web browsers accessing their site.

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 14:55:10 -0500, Leon wrote:

On 8/7/2013 1:29 PM, tommyboy wrote:
On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 10:44:27 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

August 1 I ordered 60 rare earth magnets from Lee Valley. I got a
receipt and confirmation number. Checking on the order today they have
no record of the order and are not willing to expedite shipping on the
order unless I am willing to pay an additional $30+ dollars for second
day shipping.

I'm thinking I should pay the original $10 shipping and they pick up the
difference in price to get it here more quickly.

I canceled the order.

Just out of curiosity, was your credit card charged?



Never hit the card so they indeed lost the order some where along the line.

I did get an explanation from the owner of LV, they ran some tests and
found issues with some web browsers accessing their site.

Just out of curosity what browser did you use?
Still on them cross browser testing is on the developer.

basilisk

On 8/7/13 11:48 AM, Moderator wrote:
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 08:00:26 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 8/7/2013 5:12 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Leon, I've always respected your postings here, but this time you did
not come across as the gentleman you usually are. Maybe I'm reading
it wrong, you came across like a spoiled kid that did not get his way.
I hope I'm wrong.

Bull**** ... what Leon expected from Lee Valley is the same service and
attention to detail that his clients have come to expect and demand from
him.

It is why Leon is successful in this business, and why Lee Valley
heretofore gained respect and loyalty in their business ... it was Lee
Valley that dropped this ball, and worse, blamed it on the customer.

You are way off base, Bubba ... and indeed wrong.


Nice sticky reach-around, Swingy.


Go away you anonymous posting, cowardly douchbag.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/6/2013 10:44 AM, Leon wrote:
August 1 I ordered 60 rare earth magnets from Lee Valley. I got a
receipt and confirmation number. Checking on the order today they have
no record of the order and are not willing to expedite shipping on the
order unless I am willing to pay an additional $30+ dollars for second
day shipping.

I'm thinking I should pay the original $10 shipping and they pick up the
difference in price to get it here more quickly.

I canceled the order.


OK now,

The final final follow up. ;~)



Your email was forward to us by Robin Lee, we are very sorry that we
were not able to help you after the first request. We should have used
this opportunity to investigate immediately.



We believe we have identified the problem. By using the “back”
buttons to navigate during the secure checkout process it is possible to
generate an incomplete order. At this time it seems to be specific to
the Google Chrome or Safari Web browsers, can you confirm this? Our
Website and IT teams will be investigating further and we hope to have a
resolution shortly.



Meanwhile, please allow us to take your order again via our website
or phone. We could ship it out tomorrow and we will offer you expedited
shipping and remove all shipping charges?



Please let us know how you would like to proceed, we are very sorry
this has happened. I can be reached by phone at ###############.



Regards,



John Nicol

E-Comm Team Leader

Lee Valley Tools


Hi John,

Yes I was using Chrome but don't recall using the back button but it
could have been a possibility.

I think the real problem is that, regardless of how I got there, I was
confident that the total indicated on my receipt and the confirmation
number on the receipt along with the print receipt button on that page
was the end of a successful order process.

As for replacing the order I appreciate the offer. Unfortunately when
I learned that It would cost me an additional $20~$30 for shipping to
expedite the order to arrive within the previously expected time frame I
declined and placed the order with Amazon. Their free shipping normally
arrives 3~4 sooner than the normal shipping from LV.
In this particular instance I had already quoted my customer a price for
the item on this order and I was simply going to pass my cost straight
on to her. I had no wiggle room and time was a factor.

I am not a real frequent customer directly but do advise many of my
customers to order direct from your store to save, in particular cabinet
hardware. My concern with this happening to me is that It was surely
happening to other customers. I would not want to refer my customers to
your site if they were going to have this type problem. Being in Texas
most all of my customers have never heard of LV and I do up sell your
services and products.

Anyway my whole reason for rattling cages was to insure that those that
would want to know how this incident played out were made aware.

Thank you for your time and offer, it was what I expected when I first
followed up yesterday morning.

On 8/7/2013 3:15 PM, basilisk wrote:
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 14:55:10 -0500, Leon wrote:

On 8/7/2013 1:29 PM, tommyboy wrote:
On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 10:44:27 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

August 1 I ordered 60 rare earth magnets from Lee Valley. I got a
receipt and confirmation number. Checking on the order today they have
no record of the order and are not willing to expedite shipping on the
order unless I am willing to pay an additional $30+ dollars for second
day shipping.

I'm thinking I should pay the original $10 shipping and they pick up the
difference in price to get it here more quickly.

I canceled the order.

Just out of curiosity, was your credit card charged?



Never hit the card so they indeed lost the order some where along the line.

I did get an explanation from the owner of LV, they ran some tests and
found issues with some web browsers accessing their site.

Just out of curosity what browser did you use?
Still on them cross browser testing is on the developer.

basilisk



I learned they are having issues with Chrome and Safari. They have
turned it over to9 their IT team.

Oddly I have been using Chrome since the early 2011 and place 4~5 orders
with LV and have has no issues. Perhaps security updates have changed
things on their end.

On 8/7/2013 3:15 PM, basilisk wrote:

Just out of curosity what browser did you use?
Still on them cross browser testing is on the developer.

basilisk

I don't think that Leon uses Chrome, but I'd bet it is one of the
problem children. I simply can't use Chrome on one of my banking sites
.... maybe a good thing, the way Google and the NSA are in cahoots.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 8/7/2013 4:36 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 8/7/2013 3:15 PM, basilisk wrote:

Just out of curosity what browser did you use?
Still on them cross browser testing is on the developer.

basilisk

I don't think that Leon uses Chrome, but I'd bet it is one of the
problem children. I simply can't use Chrome on one of my banking sites
... maybe a good thing, the way Google and the NSA are in cahoots.



I still use Chrome. I did have a lot of issues accessing banking sites
for some time and had to use Firefox. Lately my only issue with Chrome
is accessing my money manager's web site.

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 09:55:12 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 08:00:26 -0500, Swingman wrote:
Bull**** ... what Leon expected from Lee Valley is the same service and
attention to detail that his clients have come to expect and demand from
him.

I have to agree, but for a different reason. I've never met Leon in
person. But, for all the years I've been reading comments from Leon in
this newsgroup, he's shown himself to be a person of reason and
fairness.


Yes, and that is why I'm surprise he aired the dirty laundry before
getting a resolution. I thought better of him.

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 08:00:26 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 8/7/2013 5:12 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Leon, I've always respected your postings here, but this time you did
not come across as the gentleman you usually are. Maybe I'm reading
it wrong, you came across like a spoiled kid that did not get his way.
I hope I'm wrong.

Bull**** ... what Leon expected from Lee Valley is the same service and
attention to detail that his clients have come to expect and demand from
him.


Yes, nothing wrong with that.


It is why Leon is successful in this business, and why Lee Valley
heretofore gained respect and loyalty in their business ... it was Lee
Valley that dropped this ball, and worse, blamed it on the customer.

You are way off base, Bubba ... and indeed wrong.

No you are wrong. Lee Valley did not blame the customer, an
individual that works for them did. He was wrong and Rob Lee is
taking care of that. Wait for the rest of the story before making
conclusions.


But he got the troops here riled up before getting a second contract
and resolution. Does LV deserve to be drug through the mud yet? Maybe
at some point, but people are already taking how LV had gone to crap
before the final word was in. That is unfair and Leon is the person
staring that. Shame on him; I expected better of Leon. Sorry, but I
stand by my comment. If Rob Lee told him the same thing, I'd agree,
but it seems he did not. He is trying to rectify the situation.

Like everyone else, I've had encounters with poor customer service by
some companies over the years, but I don't whine about it until the
situation is finalized. I don't jump to conclusions until I find the
real problem. Some businesses deserve bad publicity, but others really
do rectify problems and make things right.

On 8/7/2013 5:33 PM, Leon wrote:
On 8/6/2013 10:44 AM, Leon wrote:
August 1 I ordered 60 rare earth magnets from Lee Valley. I got a
receipt and confirmation number. Checking on the order today they have
no record of the order and are not willing to expedite shipping on the
order unless I am willing to pay an additional $30+ dollars for second
day shipping.

I'm thinking I should pay the original $10 shipping and they pick up the
difference in price to get it here more quickly.

I canceled the order.


OK now,

The final final follow up. ;~)



Your email was forward to us by Robin Lee, we are very sorry that we
were not able to help you after the first request. We should have used
this opportunity to investigate immediately.



We believe we have identified the problem. By using the “back”
buttons to navigate during the secure checkout process it is possible to
generate an incomplete order. At this time it seems to be specific to
the Google Chrome or Safari Web browsers, can you confirm this? Our
Website and IT teams will be investigating further and we hope to have a
resolution shortly.



Meanwhile, please allow us to take your order again via our website
or phone. We could ship it out tomorrow and we will offer you expedited
shipping and remove all shipping charges?



Please let us know how you would like to proceed, we are very sorry
this has happened. I can be reached by phone at ###############.



Regards,



John Nicol

E-Comm Team Leader

Lee Valley Tools


Hi John,

Yes I was using Chrome but don't recall using the back button but it
could have been a possibility.

I think the real problem is that, regardless of how I got there, I was
confident that the total indicated on my receipt and the confirmation
number on the receipt along with the print receipt button on that page
was the end of a successful order process.

As for replacing the order I appreciate the offer. Unfortunately when
I learned that It would cost me an additional $20~$30 for shipping to
expedite the order to arrive within the previously expected time frame I
declined and placed the order with Amazon. Their free shipping normally
arrives 3~4 sooner than the normal shipping from LV.
In this particular instance I had already quoted my customer a price for
the item on this order and I was simply going to pass my cost straight
on to her. I had no wiggle room and time was a factor.

I am not a real frequent customer directly but do advise many of my
customers to order direct from your store to save, in particular cabinet
hardware. My concern with this happening to me is that It was surely
happening to other customers. I would not want to refer my customers to
your site if they were going to have this type problem. Being in Texas
most all of my customers have never heard of LV and I do up sell your
services and products.

Anyway my whole reason for rattling cages was to insure that those that
would want to know how this incident played out were made aware.

Thank you for your time and offer, it was what I expected when I first
followed up yesterday morning.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you get a gift certificate or store
credit in return, your initial comments seemed hasty here, and you
shouldn't have had to take it to Rob, but two screw-ups do not make a right.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 8/7/2013 6:04 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

No you are wrong.

Your mighty effort to take the moral high ground failed. Rob Lee himself
shot you out of the saddle, Live with it.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 8/7/2013 6:13 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 8/7/2013 5:33 PM, Leon wrote:
On 8/6/2013 10:44 AM, Leon wrote:
August 1 I ordered 60 rare earth magnets from Lee Valley. I got a
receipt and confirmation number. Checking on the order today they have
no record of the order and are not willing to expedite shipping on the
order unless I am willing to pay an additional $30+ dollars for second
day shipping.

I'm thinking I should pay the original $10 shipping and they pick up the
difference in price to get it here more quickly.

I canceled the order.


OK now,

The final final follow up. ;~)



Your email was forward to us by Robin Lee, we are very sorry that we
were not able to help you after the first request. We should have used
this opportunity to investigate immediately.



We believe we have identified the problem. By using the “back”
buttons to navigate during the secure checkout process it is possible to
generate an incomplete order. At this time it seems to be specific to
the Google Chrome or Safari Web browsers, can you confirm this? Our
Website and IT teams will be investigating further and we hope to have a
resolution shortly.



Meanwhile, please allow us to take your order again via our website
or phone. We could ship it out tomorrow and we will offer you expedited
shipping and remove all shipping charges?



Please let us know how you would like to proceed, we are very sorry
this has happened. I can be reached by phone at ###############.



Regards,



John Nicol

E-Comm Team Leader

Lee Valley Tools


Hi John,

Yes I was using Chrome but don't recall using the back button but it
could have been a possibility.

I think the real problem is that, regardless of how I got there, I was
confident that the total indicated on my receipt and the confirmation
number on the receipt along with the print receipt button on that page
was the end of a successful order process.

As for replacing the order I appreciate the offer. Unfortunately when
I learned that It would cost me an additional $20~$30 for shipping to
expedite the order to arrive within the previously expected time frame I
declined and placed the order with Amazon. Their free shipping normally
arrives 3~4 sooner than the normal shipping from LV.
In this particular instance I had already quoted my customer a price for
the item on this order and I was simply going to pass my cost straight
on to her. I had no wiggle room and time was a factor.

I am not a real frequent customer directly but do advise many of my
customers to order direct from your store to save, in particular cabinet
hardware. My concern with this happening to me is that It was surely
happening to other customers. I would not want to refer my customers to
your site if they were going to have this type problem. Being in Texas
most all of my customers have never heard of LV and I do up sell your
services and products.

Anyway my whole reason for rattling cages was to insure that those that
would want to know how this incident played out were made aware.

Thank you for your time and offer, it was what I expected when I first
followed up yesterday morning.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you get a gift certificate or store
credit in return, your initial comments seemed hasty here, and you
shouldn't have had to take it to Rob, but two screw-ups do not make a
right.


Had I not brought it up here I would not have received his e-mail
address/contact information. Doing so enabled me to go to the person
that would care and have the situation corrected.

On 8/7/2013 5:48 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 09:55:12 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 08:00:26 -0500, Swingman wrote:
Bull**** ... what Leon expected from Lee Valley is the same service and
attention to detail that his clients have come to expect and demand from
him.

I have to agree, but for a different reason. I've never met Leon in
person. But, for all the years I've been reading comments from Leon in
this newsgroup, he's shown himself to be a person of reason and
fairness.


Yes, and that is why I'm surprise he aired the dirty laundry before
getting a resolution. I thought better of him.



I'm confused Ed, what dirty laundry. I stated facts and how they played
out. Ultimately all went well and I stated that too.

I showed no ill feelings nor did I suggest that anyone not continue to
do business with LV.

As I mentioned in another post had I not brought this situation to light
in this group I would not have been able to contact Rob Lee as a few
here provided the necessary information to do so. Had I not posted this
here the issue would still be unknown to Rob, at least through me.

I wanted to provide information to solve a problem and not let it go
with out being addressed. As it turned out and as I suspected their
computer system was fault and it took me contacting Rob before any one
at LV returned my comments with a proposed solution. I benefited nada
other than the satisfaction of knowing that Rob still cares about his
customers and to help them correct a situation that was obviously
causing them problems.

On 8/7/2013 7:36 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 8/7/2013 6:04 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

No you are wrong.

Your mighty effort to take the moral high ground failed. Rob Lee himself
shot you out of the saddle, Live with it.

Huh? Rob just proved I was right. Contact the right people and the
problem can be fixed. Don't tell half the story, tell it all.

On 8/7/2013 6:04 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 08:00:26 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 8/7/2013 5:12 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Leon, I've always respected your postings here, but this time you did
not come across as the gentleman you usually are. Maybe I'm reading
it wrong, you came across like a spoiled kid that did not get his way.
I hope I'm wrong.

Bull**** ... what Leon expected from Lee Valley is the same service and
attention to detail that his clients have come to expect and demand from
him.


Yes, nothing wrong with that.


It is why Leon is successful in this business, and why Lee Valley
heretofore gained respect and loyalty in their business ... it was Lee
Valley that dropped this ball, and worse, blamed it on the customer.

You are way off base, Bubba ... and indeed wrong.

No you are wrong. Lee Valley did not blame the customer, an
individual that works for them did.

Ok, first off every employee at LV represents LV, they are all the face
of LV. Let the few that want to run thing their way and the company
looses direction and customers suffer. So yes, two different LV
employees blamed the customer therefore LV blamed the customer.



He was wrong and Rob Lee is
taking care of that. Wait for the rest of the story before making
conclusions.


But he got the troops here riled up before getting a second contract
and resolution.

Again, I did nothing to stir the pot except to state facts. Perhaps my
post should have been precluded that some readers might want to leave
the room as the facts might be found disturbing. ;~)


Does LV deserve to be drug through the mud yet? Maybe
at some point, but people are already taking how LV had gone to crap
before the final word was in.

Again, I was stating facts, nothing fiction here and others jumping on
board apparently has similar instances. Perhaps you read way more into
my comments that were intended.



That is unfair and Leon is the person
staring that. Shame on him; I expected better of Leon. Sorry, but I
stand by my comment. If Rob Lee told him the same thing, I'd agree,
but it seems he did not. He is trying to rectify the situation.

Actually my response to Rob responding to my e-mail to him wa that I
wanted no favors but thought he should be brought aware of the situation.



Like everyone else, I've had encounters with poor customer service by
some companies over the years, but I don't whine about it until the
situation is finalized.

I don't think stating facts as they played out was whining. Nor do I
believe that sitting back and waiting for some one else to take the
initiative to correct a problem is going to fix anything.

I have had several contacts with LV and it was not until I contacted Rob
that I felt confident that the situation would be rectified. I posted
every comment and posted every copy of the correspondence here as it
unfolded. If anything I think it might be to LV's benefit that I did
so. I reassured those reading my posts that Rob is still interested in
running his company in the manner that we are accustomed to. Had I not
taken all of this further I would have still had a bad taste in my mouth
and probably would have thought twice about using them when delivery
timing was a factor.
Now if you feel that what I posted was dragging LV through the mud
perhaps that was because the first few contacts I made with a couple of
the LV reps decision to dismiss the problem as customer error left you
feeling that you would not want to be treated that way. From the
beginning they knew that I had a receipt and a confirmation number and
they could not find it. That was their mistake for dismissing the problem.

I'm sorry if you took offense to the way I handled the situation but
having run stores most all of my career the people that take the
initiative to recognize and correct a problem are the people that I
always wanted working for me, not the ones that passed it off and let
the next guy clean up the mess. There are those that get the job done
and there are those that sit back and watch.




I don't jump to conclusions until I find the
real problem. Some businesses deserve bad publicity, but others really
do rectify problems and make things right.

Turns out my suppositions were correct and until I contacted Rob the
situation was going to go unresolved.

On 8/7/2013 8:21 PM, Leon wrote:

I'm confused Ed, what dirty laundry. I stated facts and how they played
out. Ultimately all went well and I stated that too.

I showed no ill feelings nor did I suggest that anyone not continue to
do business with LV.

As I mentioned in another post had I not brought this situation to light
in this group I would not have been able to contact Rob Lee as a few
here provided the necessary information to do so. Had I not posted this
here the issue would still be unknown to Rob, at least through me.

I wanted to provide information to solve a problem and not let it go
with out being addressed. As it turned out and as I suspected their
computer system was fault and it took me contacting Rob before any one
at LV returned my comments with a proposed solution. I benefited nada
other than the satisfaction of knowing that Rob still cares about his
customers and to help them correct a situation that was obviously
causing them problems.

The end result turned out OK, but you could have taken a different
route. You did the right thing to contact Rob, but you could have
contacted him with a little effort. Hey, does anyone know how to contact
Rob Lee?

Read the subject line for this thread. You made a statement that
attracted the attention of most everyone here. People read and believe
headlines and draw conclusions without the rest of the facts that took
some hours to come out.

No, you did not suggest anyone not do business with LV, but, as a
respected poster here your comment that LV "screws up and does not make
good" was enough for someone to conclude that LV has gone to crap.

I don't object to you telling the story, I just think you should have
told the entire story, good or bad, after it was concluded. I don't
think disparaging LV was your intent but others perceived it that way.

On 8/7/2013 7:39 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/7/2013 7:36 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 8/7/2013 6:04 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

No you are wrong.

Your mighty effort to take the moral high ground failed. Rob Lee himself
shot you out of the saddle, Live with it.

Huh? Rob just proved I was right. Contact the right people and the
problem can be fixed. Don't tell half the story, tell it all.




I did tell it all as it played out.

But I have to ask, you think less of me because I took this all the way
and let every one know what was going on.

Would you to prefer to think of me as the person that gave up and let
the situation go unresolved and then post that they screwed me around?

I am thinking that it would have been real easy to not post copies of
every move made by every one and perhaps left, for some, a bad feeling
about LV.

I think we are all adults here, life is not rosy but I believe that the
out come of this thread came out positive for LV and did not benefit my
mission to smear LV had that been my purpose in the first place.

My sole reason to start this thread was to point out a fact and a
problem. It turns out that LV was at fault and did have a problem and
as it turns out my posting all the facts here enabled me to take the
necessary steps to contact the right person to correct the problem. I
was getting nowhere until a few here gave me the necessary information
to get to the person that would care. LV truly had a problem that was
affecting its customers and now that problem has been brought to light
and is being corrected.

On 8/7/2013 7:00 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 8/7/2013 5:12 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Leon, I've always respected your postings here, but this time you did
not come across as the gentleman you usually are. Maybe I'm reading
it wrong, you came across like a spoiled kid that did not get his way.
I hope I'm wrong.

Bull**** ... what Leon expected from Lee Valley is the same service and
attention to detail that his clients have come to expect and demand from
him.

It is why Leon is successful in this business, and why Lee Valley
heretofore gained respect and loyalty in their business ... it was Lee
Valley that dropped this ball, and worse, blamed it on the customer.

You are way off base, Bubba ... and indeed wrong.


Amen. And the more people who tolerate poor customer service the worse
customer service gets. I'm with Leon.

On 8/7/2013 9:00 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 8/7/2013 5:12 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Leon, I've always respected your postings here, but this time you did
not come across as the gentleman you usually are. Maybe I'm reading
it wrong, you came across like a spoiled kid that did not get his way.
I hope I'm wrong.

Bull**** ... what Leon expected from Lee Valley is the same service and
attention to detail that his clients have come to expect and demand from
him.

It is why Leon is successful in this business, and why Lee Valley
heretofore gained respect and loyalty in their business ... it was Lee
Valley that dropped this ball, and worse, blamed it on the customer.

You are way off base, Bubba ... and indeed wrong.

I think that Leon had a true point.
The confirmation, the receipt...

So lets assume that the credit card did not go through, why did he get
the confirmation????

So now lets assume that they lost the order, but he mailed them proof of
confirmation and receipt...

In either case, Lee Valley should have stepped up.. They are known for
their customer service on top of their usually good tools and hardware.

I would expect them to treat him differently from the reciept and
confirmation than what he received. Then add to that if they looked up
his activity , they might have given him some more respect.

--
Jeff

On 8/7/2013 7:04 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 08:00:26 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 8/7/2013 5:12 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Leon, I've always respected your postings here, but this time you did
not come across as the gentleman you usually are. Maybe I'm reading
it wrong, you came across like a spoiled kid that did not get his way.
I hope I'm wrong.

Bull**** ... what Leon expected from Lee Valley is the same service and
attention to detail that his clients have come to expect and demand from
him.


Yes, nothing wrong with that.


It is why Leon is successful in this business, and why Lee Valley
heretofore gained respect and loyalty in their business ... it was Lee
Valley that dropped this ball, and worse, blamed it on the customer.

You are way off base, Bubba ... and indeed wrong.

No you are wrong. Lee Valley did not blame the customer, an
individual that works for them did.
That's where you are wrong Ed, any individual working for Lee Valley is
a representative of Lee Valley, and I think Leon did try with a
supervisor... If I remember... so it was Lee Valley.. (either lack of
training or bad new policy).

He was wrong and Rob Lee is
taking care of that. Wait for the rest of the story before making
conclusions.


But he got the troops here riled up before getting a second contract
and resolution. Does LV deserve to be drug through the mud yet? Maybe
at some point, but people are already taking how LV had gone to crap
before the final word was in. That is unfair and Leon is the person
staring that. Shame on him; I expected better of Leon. Sorry, but I
stand by my comment. If Rob Lee told him the same thing, I'd agree,
but it seems he did not. He is trying to rectify the situation.

Like everyone else, I've had encounters with poor customer service by
some companies over the years, but I don't whine about it until the
situation is finalized. I don't jump to conclusions until I find the
real problem. Some businesses deserve bad publicity, but others really
do rectify problems and make things right.







--
Jeff

On 8/7/2013 8:03 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/7/2013 8:21 PM, Leon wrote:

I'm confused Ed, what dirty laundry. I stated facts and how they played
out. Ultimately all went well and I stated that too.

I showed no ill feelings nor did I suggest that anyone not continue to
do business with LV.

As I mentioned in another post had I not brought this situation to light
in this group I would not have been able to contact Rob Lee as a few
here provided the necessary information to do so. Had I not posted this
here the issue would still be unknown to Rob, at least through me.

I wanted to provide information to solve a problem and not let it go
with out being addressed. As it turned out and as I suspected their
computer system was fault and it took me contacting Rob before any one
at LV returned my comments with a proposed solution. I benefited nada
other than the satisfaction of knowing that Rob still cares about his
customers and to help them correct a situation that was obviously
causing them problems.

The end result turned out OK, but you could have taken a different
route. You did the right thing to contact Rob, but you could have
contacted him with a little effort. Hey, does anyone know how to contact
Rob Lee?
Well what fun would that be? ;~)



Read the subject line for this thread. You made a statement that
attracted the attention of most everyone here. People read and believe
headlines and draw conclusions without the rest of the facts that took
some hours to come out.

Well I got the information either way and the title was not anything but
the truth at that point.




No, you did not suggest anyone not do business with LV, but, as a
respected poster here your comment that LV "screws up and does not make
good" was enough for someone to conclude that LV has gone to crap.

Well seriously I could have stated that LV simply made a mistake and
"someone" would have concluded that LV had gone to crap too. For that
matter I could have said that LV fixed a problem and "someone" would
have had a contrary comment.

I wanted to draw attention and those that read the entire thread
understood that going to the top was still possible to do at LV and the
out come was positive. What is unfortunate for me is that I had to go
to the top. As indicated by Rob himself there had been some non policy
handling of the situation.

I have been a subscriber to Uverse TV, Phone, and internet for a few
years and the recent service has been poor for the whole neighborhood.
I can assure you it would be impossible to get to the top dog to complain.






I don't object to you telling the story, I just think you should have
told the entire story, good or bad, after it was concluded. I don't
think disparaging LV was your intent but others perceived it that way.

Well I did not do that way. It seems most every one else had no problem
with the way I brought it all to light. Perhaps had I done it your way
you would have been pleased and most every one else would have suggested
a better way to present it. I'm not trying to sell books so much as
bring attention as it happens.

Anyway I appreciate your comments, I was truly interested in what rubbed
you the wrong way. My intent was not to offend or have anyone think any
less of me.

On 8/7/2013 12:09 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

They could have handled it better from the start and not
blame you. Could be a lot of reasons it screwed up.

Both true but from what I've read in this read (not all) I'm thinking that
the problem was that the page timed out before the order was actually
placed.

Then he would not have gotten a confirmation, since the time out would
have removed his session info stored on the webserver. Hence they would
have lost the info on him...
So they would not have sent him the confirmation... So that is a normal
system...


Normally, when ordering stuff online, you are eventually presented with a
page detailing the order; an invoice, essentially. There is often/usually a
confirmation number too and a suggestion that the purchaser print the page
but the order isn't actually placed until the buyer hits the "Place Order"
or "Submit" or whatever button. Once that is done, gears grind, stuff
whirls, credit card is checked & charged and eventually - if all has gone
well - a new page pops up and thanks you for your order. I rather imagine
that final "Thank you" page didn't pop up for Leon.



--
Jeff

On 8/7/2013 8:11 PM, Leon wrote:
On 8/7/2013 6:13 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 8/7/2013 5:33 PM, Leon wrote:
On 8/6/2013 10:44 AM, Leon wrote:
August 1 I ordered 60 rare earth magnets from Lee Valley. I got a
receipt and confirmation number. Checking on the order today they have
no record of the order and are not willing to expedite shipping on the
order unless I am willing to pay an additional $30+ dollars for second
day shipping.

I'm thinking I should pay the original $10 shipping and they pick up
the
difference in price to get it here more quickly.

I canceled the order.


OK now,

The final final follow up. ;~)



Your email was forward to us by Robin Lee, we are very sorry that we
were not able to help you after the first request. We should have used
this opportunity to investigate immediately.



We believe we have identified the problem. By using the “back”
buttons to navigate during the secure checkout process it is possible to
generate an incomplete order. At this time it seems to be specific to
the Google Chrome or Safari Web browsers, can you confirm this? Our
Website and IT teams will be investigating further and we hope to have a
resolution shortly.



Meanwhile, please allow us to take your order again via our website
or phone. We could ship it out tomorrow and we will offer you expedited
shipping and remove all shipping charges?



Please let us know how you would like to proceed, we are very sorry
this has happened. I can be reached by phone at ###############.



Regards,



John Nicol

E-Comm Team Leader

Lee Valley Tools


Hi John,

Yes I was using Chrome but don't recall using the back button but it
could have been a possibility.

I think the real problem is that, regardless of how I got there, I was
confident that the total indicated on my receipt and the confirmation
number on the receipt along with the print receipt button on that page
was the end of a successful order process.

As for replacing the order I appreciate the offer. Unfortunately when
I learned that It would cost me an additional $20~$30 for shipping to
expedite the order to arrive within the previously expected time frame I
declined and placed the order with Amazon. Their free shipping normally
arrives 3~4 sooner than the normal shipping from LV.
In this particular instance I had already quoted my customer a price for
the item on this order and I was simply going to pass my cost straight
on to her. I had no wiggle room and time was a factor.

I am not a real frequent customer directly but do advise many of my
customers to order direct from your store to save, in particular cabinet
hardware. My concern with this happening to me is that It was surely
happening to other customers. I would not want to refer my customers to
your site if they were going to have this type problem. Being in Texas
most all of my customers have never heard of LV and I do up sell your
services and products.

Anyway my whole reason for rattling cages was to insure that those that
would want to know how this incident played out were made aware.

Thank you for your time and offer, it was what I expected when I first
followed up yesterday morning.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you get a gift certificate or store
credit in return, your initial comments seemed hasty here, and you
shouldn't have had to take it to Rob, but two screw-ups do not make a
right.


Had I not brought it up here I would not have received his e-mail
address/contact information. Doing so enabled me to go to the person
that would care and have the situation corrected.


Just saying it may have been done without the "screw up" comment, maybe
a "bad experience", it sounds a little less brutal.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 22:44:37 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 8/6/2013 7:36 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

Obviously I didn't incur any damages here, but I'm not used to that kind
of telephone response from LV. Also, the fact that they went out and
then in stock makes me wonder if it was a real closeout - if not that's a
bit on the edge of ethical. Of course, that could just be a bad job of
computer programming.

I hope our experiences don't reflect a change of business plan at LV.


Could be another order was cancelled or a payment problem happened.
Maybe one of the stores returned a bunch to the main warehouse. Many
legit reasons for it.

I have a lot of respect for Leon, but I think he is over reacting on
this. Stuff happens, not worth getting your undies in a knot over this.
It is magnets, not an organ transplant.

Most likely they hired an MBA who has been taught to spend $5 to save
a nickel and **** everyone off as he has no clue about customer
service.

Mike M

On Tue, 6 Aug 2013 17:26:58 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/6/2013 1:24 PM, chaniarts wrote:
On 8/6/2013 10:26 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:
August 1 I ordered 60 rare earth magnets from Lee Valley. I got a
receipt and confirmation number. Checking on the order today they
have no record of the order and are not willing to expedite
shipping on the order unless I am willing to pay an additional
$30+ dollars for second day shipping.

I'm thinking I should pay the original $10 shipping and they pick
up the difference in price to get it here more quickly.

I canceled the order.

They wouldn't honor your confirmation number? Their receipt? What
kind of
crap is that?


did your credit card get the order charge? if so, then their
ordering system dropped it for sure.


Never hit the card and the reason that I started to follow up on the
3rd work day after placing. They lost the order.

I am sensitive to Leon's loss. Someone asked me once though, "Can
computer's make mistakes?"
Do we expect Lee Valley to have to same sort of backup that would be
used by the New Yord Stock Exchange?

Lee Valley's record is pretty good, no? I agree that the problem
resolution was handled very poorly. I'm surprised
they didn't expedite the magnets to him.


From my experiences with customer service organizations, and Leon's
documentation of his experience, I almost believe this looks like a customer
service manager having set some new policies in place (probably to control
cost), and pushing the new policies down to the phone staff. That would
explain why he got no further with the manager than he did with the phone
staff. If so - that's not a policy that is going to serve them well going
forward. One would think they would have looked at his customer record and
have seen that he's a frequent customer of theirs, and bit the bullet just
to keep him happy - let alone acknowledge his evidence rather than tell him
it's just not possible.

Back when I was still an electrical contractor I was got a job on what
was a back handed compliment. While not low bidder I was competitive
and was awarded the job with the comment I know how you handle
problems. I'm sure Robin Lee wants to know there is a problem so it
can be fixed.

Mike M

Leon... buddy... friend of mine...

Let it go. You are defending yourself needlessly against the fanboy hoard.

You are a small "bidniz" man, so is Karl, so am I. Others are not. We know that **** indeed rolls uphill.

If my employee makes mistake on the job, in the eyes of the customer, they hold my company (and me) responsible. They don't say, "no problem Robert that you tore down our fence instead of repairing it. We hold your low level employee responsible, not you." Nope, they hold me responsible.

If there is an error in customer service, I am responsible, no one else.

My customers react the exact way I do. If I have proof you screwed up and you immediately admit it and work to fix it (say... expedited shipping on me, for example) then I can recall that my next perfect day will be my first.. No harm, no foul, just get the deal done. I expect the wrong party to fix their problem. After all, if Leon had screwed up and used a bad credit card, given the wrong shipping address, or had provided the wrong customer contact info, that would have all been on him, right? So it is a two way street. Unless...

If I am met with a surly attitude by some smart ass that is so poorly trained he intimates I might be lying or just completely wrong, the fun starts for me. Over the years I have perfected my chainsaw mouth approach to problem solving and I make the guy that is ruining my day as absolutely unhappy as I can. I gladly speak to supervisor after supervisor, working my way up the ladder.

It is good that Rob Lee contacted you, but that is all after the fact. It is not your fault, nor should it be your burden to bear that their IT idiots can't get their site lined out as well as hundreds of thousands of others..

And again, I know you well enough to know that if they had made just a bit of effort to placate you, all would have been well.

I give everyone a fair shake and know that I am not remotely close to perfect and realize that not all my efforts are 100%. I do not alienate clients for any reason. My employees and sub contractors are not allowed to have bad attitudes. Bad attitudes cost me money and future clients. Folks that have bad days are children and need to man up or stay at home. I run a tight ship and expect that of others. I was brought up in the trades that way, and it has served me well.

I thought your post was well reasoned, well intended, and devoid of the kind of nasty attitude that I would have expressed. And for those that are disappointed in you because you didn't handle this the way THEY think you should, shame on them. They know you here as a constant, valued contributor and solid guy. Pathetic they couldn't give you the benefit of a doubt on this.

Let the guys that buy 10 frickin' door knobs a year or $200 worth of stuff once and a while have this one Leon. There is no resolution when arguing with fan boys or folks that see the world only from their eyes.

Robert

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 09:13:32 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 08:00:26 -0500, Swingman wrote:
Bull**** ... what Leon expected from Lee Valley is the same service and
attention to detail that his clients have come to expect and demand from
him.

What's the different reason? ... that's pretty much the EXACT gist of my
observation.

The different reason is that I've never been a client of Leon's and
never in person experienced his attention to woodworking detail. My
experience with Leon is solely through the woodworking information
he's passed on to me. Almost as good, but not just quite.

So there!

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 16:36:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Oddly I have been using Chrome since the early 2011 and place 4~5 orders
with LV and have has no issues. Perhaps security updates have changed
things on their end.

So, it WAS YOUR FAULT!!! If you weren't using a crap browser in the
beginning, all this rigmoral wouldn't have happened.

Nice try, but you've been caught Leon!

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 18:48:42 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Yes, and that is why I'm surprise he aired the dirty laundry before
getting a resolution. I thought better of him.

But, he did attempt a resolution beforehand. And, upon attempting that
resolution he was rebuffed.

It was only on further complaint (and I suspect a good attention from
this newsgroup), that brought about what most would consider the
correct resolution.

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 19:04:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Like everyone else, I've had encounters with poor customer service by
some companies over the years, but I don't whine about it until the
situation is finalized. I don't jump to conclusions until I find the
real problem. Some businesses deserve bad publicity, but others really
do rectify problems and make things right.

Why are you being such a bear about this? When making complaints, at
what point do you stop? Two tries, three tries, more?

It's not like Leon didn't try, he did and was cut off by a customer
service rep with the wrong information on hand. And, how many times
after talking with a customer service rep, are you able to go much
higher over their head and talk to the CEO of the company?

Leon didn't have Rob Lee's email in the beginning. He got that email
by the very fact of airing his grievance in this newsgroup. And, the
only reason Rob Lee's email was available is the fact that he
frequently contributes in some newgroups. All those conditions aren't
very common at all.

Everything that happened was needed to get to the final (proper)
resolution.

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 21:03:01 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I don't object to you telling the story, I just think you should have
told the entire story, good or bad, after it was concluded. I don't
think disparaging LV was your intent but others perceived it that way.

Sorry Ed, I might have missed comments from those *others*, but it
appears like you're one of the few, if not the only one who perceives
it that way.