On 18 Aug 2012 21:40:57 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
news
When you can show me how "earnest effort" adds to the bottom line, I'll
listen. Effort is meaningless. "Work" (think physics) makes money.

There is more than the bottom line, in my opinion. Being charitable gets
at least brownie points. And I would as supervisor definitely discuss
work-related problems with the problem person. Sometimes my hands were
tied, though.

Huh? What does charity have to do with work? An employer hires fir charity? I
suppose it happens (wife's no-good nephew needs a job) but should it be
normal? You want to reward those who put out the greatest effort at being
poor? It must be your meds again. The first two sentences make no sense.

The second two are just as weird. Sure, I'll stipulate that a supervisor
discusses "work-related problems". Yes, sometimes hands are tied. OK?

Paint me totally confused by the above paragraph.

On 08/18/2012 05:55 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Tim Daneliuk wrote:


Hardcore engineering is exactly what we're missing and where
all the demand is. I could probably place between 5-20 people
right now with just 1 year's experience in Linux engineering
and infrastructure if they knew basic system administration,
networking, and troubleshooting, and had good people skills
and a high integrity work ethic. The jobs I'm thinking of
start at well north of $50K/yr with full benefits, vacation,
401K matching, and instant vesting of all the money the company
does contribute to the 401K. A great first job for a young,
smart engineer ... and the company can't find 'em. That, sir,
is why jobs are leaving Dodge...

Man Tim - you should start a recruiting business because you'd have a corner
on the market. I do see those openings here and there but I probably
haven't seen 20 since the beginning of the year. Maybe it's a reflection of
where you live.


The company in question is in metro Chicago. The rest of the job
market is deader than a doornail, but this particular space -
Linux data center operations - it very strong.

And no, I do not want to be a recruiter - it's one step below
being the piano player in a cathouse: You aren't part of the action
but everyone notices when you don't play your part.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

On 18 Aug 2012 21:48:40 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
:

On 17 Aug 2012 16:09:32 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
:

On 17 Aug 2012 12:24:36 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
om:

On 16 Aug 2012 19:48:34 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
news:jh7q28t2bif7j6tteahb84a9flt8vsd0gm@4ax .com:

So you're saying that *NONE* of the children in that school get
an education? I'd say it's time to close it down. Here they
have a thing called "charter schools". Perhaps it's time for a
rich Northern state like New Jersey to learn from the poor
South.

This is the poor North we are talking about. Where the state has
taken some jurisdiction over some school districts.

With your huge taxes, why is it so poor, Han. Could it be because
they're PAYING TOO MUCH?

Paterson used to be quite rich, but now is trying to dig out from
being a failed ghetto. It is rather poor, and has a miserable
population.

That's a result, not a cause. Why did it go down so fast?

Northeast industrial city. Was called Silk City at some point. Water
power started it. There are still the Great Falls of Paterson (77
ft): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Falls_%28Passaic_River%29

Yet with all those skilled employees, they couldn't attract any other
business. I wonder why?

It happened to the whole rustbelt recently, and to the textile industry
up in the northeast it happened twice: First it moved to the South, then
to Shri Lanka etc.

Got a clue why someone wouldn't settle in a place where costs are too high?

In Paterson they are called academies. This is what Paterson did,
as I understand it. They closed the school. Then they open the
"academies" (maybe next to a "regular" school) and select from the
fired teachers (I believe just about all were RIF'ed) who will be
rehired and get which kind of kids for which subject. Of course
all in the same old building, with new signs, probably also more
administrators.

That sounds like New Jersey. In with the new school - same as the
old school. If you find yourself getting in deeper, stop digging!

Yes, it sounds silly to me too, but apparently it is working to a
surprising extent.

Or someone is pulling the wool over your eyes.



Changing nothing and having/expecting a different result is
wishful-thinking/insanity.

No in this case they did change something. Hopefully it will work
sitting the kids down in more focused environments, with more "suited"
teachers. And I have a story from a guy who just missed the Nobel prize
about trying and trying again. Sometimes it works ...

I thought it was the same teachers, administration, and building. Different
name.

My SIL did well, some other teachers not so. He seems appreciated
by the alumni who took his lessons to heart. I am confident he
teaches math, manners and demeanor equally well; he is the kind of
guy who can wear a T-shirt declaiming "Sarcasm, just another
service we offer".

He probably has no business working in the public sector.

He was making much more money in the financial sector as chief of
email. Got out before the place went belly up spectacularly. While
his income is now a fraction, his pleasure in the work is much, much
greater. He loves teaching. Almost as much as playing bridge.

He could work somewhere he's appreciated.

He is apparently appreciated and he believes in giving back.

Aparently not enough.

It is a "free" market system. He is satisfied with the job, when you
combine every aspect, and they keep him on. Everyone wins, according to
your economic views (and mine too). That does not mean that he wouldn't
like to be paid more, or that they wouldn't like to pay him less.

No, I meant they don't appreciate him enough. I'm completely with you on not
chasing the biggest buck. Doing what you enjoy is far more important. My
father was a uni professor because he wanted to be. He turned down multiples
of his salary, many times, to go back to industry. I've had several chances
to work for bigger bucks, at work I know I'd hate (already done it - and hated
it ;-). Of course "retirement" has its benefits. ;-)

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 16:15:11 -0400, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

How about leaving some context?

How about leaving, period? There were 80 unread messages in this group
this evening. 22 were from you. 20 were from Han. Don't you think the
two of you have said about all there is to say on the issue?

--
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying the cross."

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:34:53 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 00:02:06 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:



It is easiest for me to come down in agreement on the aspect of being
intollerant of the illegal alien. For me that is an easy decision.
I'm not convinced though, that the non-working citizen would readily
move in to take over those jobs if the illegals were not here.
Perhaps over time, but I just can't see that happening at all
quickly.

Except that it *DID* happen, and more than once.

In our worst of our worst past - that I would agree with. There is a point
where desparation overwhelms all other considerations. But - that's not
really what we are talking about - is it?

Huh? It was just a couple of years ago. ...and yes, actually, it is.

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:57:59 -0400, Jack wrote:

On 8/17/2012 11:42 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:28:11 -0400, Jack wrote:

Entering the country w/o permission is a misdemeanor (crime) the first
offense, and a felony (crime) thereafter.

AIUI, it's a civil offense the first time (not a misdemeanor).

AIUI, It's a misdemeanor

mis·de·mean·or
noun
1. Law . a criminal offense defined as less serious than a felony.

No, it's not. A traffic ticket is less than a felony but it is not a
misdemeanor, either. It is an infraction. Being here illegally is similar,
at least technically.

The reason
being that it doesn't require a trial (by jury) to deport an alien, only an
administrative action. The second offense, after deportation, can result in a
prison sentence, so would naturally require a trial.

The second offense is a felony, both amazingly are ignored by our [fed]
government at this time, to the point of suing states for trying to keep
it real.

There, I agree with you.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:34:53 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 00:02:06 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:



It is easiest for me to come down in agreement on the aspect of
being intollerant of the illegal alien. For me that is an easy
decision. I'm not convinced though, that the non-working citizen
would readily move in to take over those jobs if the illegals were
not here. Perhaps over time, but I just can't see that happening
at all quickly.

Except that it *DID* happen, and more than once.

In our worst of our worst past - that I would agree with. There is
a point where desparation overwhelms all other considerations. But
- that's not really what we are talking about - is it?

Huh? It was just a couple of years ago. ...and yes, actually, it is.

You'll have to refresh me then, because I do not recall any time since the
great depression that people displaced from "normal" jobs turned to things
like picking crops.

--

-Mike-

On 18 Aug 2012 22:29:25 GMT, Han wrote:

Tim Daneliuk wrote in
:

On 08/18/2012 05:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Colleges graduate students where the market is heading - perhaps with
a little lag.

Maybe. But have you tried to hire a high quality plumber or
electrician lately. There is a TON of opportunity in the trades
and these are jobs that cannot easily be offshored. Unfortunately
a generation of American parents were brainwashed by the 1960s
Smelliest Generation that runs the universities that no one
can succeed without a college degree. Speaking as someone who
HAS a graduate degree (and briefly taught grad school) this is
nonsense.

Fully agree, but it seems some of that is coming back. Problem is that
a fully licensed (independent) plumber or electrician just about has to
get at least an associate degree to be able to read the regs and do the
accounting.

Even employees are needed.

You are right about the web development stuff, but that's where
the market is. Hardcore engineering is dying here.

I'm actually saying the opposite: Web programming and Java are
now commodity skills - the manual labor of the IT industry.
There are too many people that can do this work and not enough
job openings.

Hardcore engineering is exactly what we're missing and where
all the demand is. I could probably place between 5-20 people
right now with just 1 year's experience in Linux engineering
and infrastructure if they knew basic system administration,
networking, and troubleshooting, and had good people skills
and a high integrity work ethic. The jobs I'm thinking of
start at well north of $50K/yr with full benefits, vacation,
401K matching, and instant vesting of all the money the company
does contribute to the 401K. A great first job for a young,
smart engineer ... and the company can't find 'em. That, sir,
is why jobs are leaving Dodge...

That would also be the kind of job to return ASAP when the
schools/students see the opportunity. Indeed, some of the lower level
off-shored jobs are coming back, I heard (don't ask, I don't remember
where I heard).

Not sure the (what was called "hard") engineering schools will. It takes math,
something sorely lacking in public schools these days. I believe lower level
jobs are coming back, or will if allowed to. My CPoE shipped all production
to Mexico in '08 and has already found that it was a mistake (not sure the
execs have admitted it yet). Much of the engineering is already being
"off-shored" from Japan to the US. ;-)

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 23:52:28 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 16:15:11 -0400, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

How about leaving some context?

How about leaving, period? There were 80 unread messages in this group
this evening. 22 were from you. 20 were from Han. Don't you think the
two of you have said about all there is to say on the issue?

Are you really too stupid to use a killfile? ...or are you always trying to
limit other's speech?

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 20:29:34 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:34:53 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 00:02:06 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:



It is easiest for me to come down in agreement on the aspect of
being intollerant of the illegal alien. For me that is an easy
decision. I'm not convinced though, that the non-working citizen
would readily move in to take over those jobs if the illegals were
not here. Perhaps over time, but I just can't see that happening
at all quickly.

Except that it *DID* happen, and more than once.

In our worst of our worst past - that I would agree with. There is
a point where desparation overwhelms all other considerations. But
- that's not really what we are talking about - is it?

Huh? It was just a couple of years ago. ...and yes, actually, it is.

You'll have to refresh me then, because I do not recall any time since the
great depression that people displaced from "normal" jobs turned to things
like picking crops.

So you're saying that the only jobs that illegals take are picking crops?
That's just absurd.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 20:29:34 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:34:53 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 00:02:06 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:



It is easiest for me to come down in agreement on the aspect of
being intollerant of the illegal alien. For me that is an easy
decision. I'm not convinced though, that the non-working citizen
would readily move in to take over those jobs if the illegals
were not here. Perhaps over time, but I just can't see that
happening at all quickly.

Except that it *DID* happen, and more than once.

In our worst of our worst past - that I would agree with. There is
a point where desparation overwhelms all other considerations. But
- that's not really what we are talking about - is it?

Huh? It was just a couple of years ago. ...and yes, actually, it is.

You'll have to refresh me then, because I do not recall any time
since the great depression that people displaced from "normal" jobs
turned to things like picking crops.

So you're saying that the only jobs that illegals take are picking
crops? That's just absurd.

No but this conversation stemmed from that earlier on. The assertion at one
point was that if the illegals weren't here to pick the crops, that our
displaced workers would gladly do it - paraphrased.

--

-Mike-

" wrote in
:

If Gass wins, he will have been handed a legal monopoly on table saws,
and who knows what else. I suppose you would be in favor of that.

If you look back through this newsgroup, you'd find that I proposed that
Gass should be forced to accept a (mediated) licensing settlement that
would give him a fair return on investment, but would not give him the
blackmail that he now expects.

I'm not sure whether legally institutionalizing armtwisting of a Federal
agency by an inventor, no matter how smart and deserving he might be is a
good idea. This case might be the precedent (if there isn't any other) to
limit extortion by a monopolist. Mind you, I think Gass should be fairly
compensated, and I don't know how much that should be.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 20:46:21 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 20:29:34 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:34:53 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 00:02:06 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:



It is easiest for me to come down in agreement on the aspect of
being intollerant of the illegal alien. For me that is an easy
decision. I'm not convinced though, that the non-working citizen
would readily move in to take over those jobs if the illegals
were not here. Perhaps over time, but I just can't see that
happening at all quickly.

Except that it *DID* happen, and more than once.

In our worst of our worst past - that I would agree with. There is
a point where desparation overwhelms all other considerations. But
- that's not really what we are talking about - is it?

Huh? It was just a couple of years ago. ...and yes, actually, it is.

You'll have to refresh me then, because I do not recall any time
since the great depression that people displaced from "normal" jobs
turned to things like picking crops.

So you're saying that the only jobs that illegals take are picking
crops? That's just absurd.

No but this conversation stemmed from that earlier on. The assertion at one
point was that if the illegals weren't here to pick the crops, that our
displaced workers would gladly do it - paraphrased.

The conversation is *far* more general than that. That said, if there is no
one willing to pick crops for whatever makes sense, they'll come from
somewhere else, some sort of legal visa program will be put in place, or
machines will do it. Any way you go, it's better than having illegals in the
country.

" wrote in
:

On 18 Aug 2012 22:29:25 GMT, Han wrote:

Tim Daneliuk wrote in
:

On 08/18/2012 05:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Colleges graduate students where the market is heading - perhaps
with a little lag.

Maybe. But have you tried to hire a high quality plumber or
electrician lately. There is a TON of opportunity in the trades
and these are jobs that cannot easily be offshored. Unfortunately
a generation of American parents were brainwashed by the 1960s
Smelliest Generation that runs the universities that no one
can succeed without a college degree. Speaking as someone who
HAS a graduate degree (and briefly taught grad school) this is
nonsense.

Fully agree, but it seems some of that is coming back. Problem is
that a fully licensed (independent) plumber or electrician just about
has to get at least an associate degree to be able to read the regs
and do the accounting.

Even employees are needed.

Not sure what you mean. The employees of the plumber need to know
basics, but should follow the boss's instructions. I'd like to see more
kids go into the trades than are presently doing so, but if they want to
be more than just a bit over the position of gofer, they will soon need a
real high school education, or an associate's.

You are right about the web development stuff, but that's where
the market is. Hardcore engineering is dying here.

I'm actually saying the opposite: Web programming and Java are
now commodity skills - the manual labor of the IT industry.
There are too many people that can do this work and not enough
job openings.

Hardcore engineering is exactly what we're missing and where
all the demand is. I could probably place between 5-20 people
right now with just 1 year's experience in Linux engineering
and infrastructure if they knew basic system administration,
networking, and troubleshooting, and had good people skills
and a high integrity work ethic. The jobs I'm thinking of
start at well north of $50K/yr with full benefits, vacation,
401K matching, and instant vesting of all the money the company
does contribute to the 401K. A great first job for a young,
smart engineer ... and the company can't find 'em. That, sir,
is why jobs are leaving Dodge...

That would also be the kind of job to return ASAP when the
schools/students see the opportunity. Indeed, some of the lower level
off-shored jobs are coming back, I heard (don't ask, I don't remember
where I heard).

Not sure the (what was called "hard") engineering schools will. It
takes math, something sorely lacking in public schools these days. I
believe lower level jobs are coming back, or will if allowed to. My
CPoE shipped all production to Mexico in '08 and has already found
that it was a mistake (not sure the execs have admitted it yet). Much
of the engineering is already being "off-shored" from Japan to the US.
;-)

What's CPoE?
Math is coming back, I hope and think. Although I was ****ed by some
kind of editorial somewhere that claimed algebra wasn't really necessary
any more.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

" wrote in
:

On 18 Aug 2012 21:23:12 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
m:

On 18 Aug 2012 15:49:37 GMT, Han wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote in
m:

BINGO! Corruption encompasses all branches, beginning with some
of the lowly city gov't folks, worsening in state gov't, and
skyrocketing in the totally corrupt CONgress. That's why it will
take the people, all of us, to bring about REAL change in our
country.


How, Larry? We have a Constitution to work with. A very powerful
status quo vehicle.

But Han, you're one who doesn't care a fig about the Constitution,
particularly as a "status quo vehicle".

Keith, that is a non-sequitur to me. Maybe you can explain ...

You're constantly pushing an anti-Constitutional agenda, at least one
that gives even lip service to a durable Constitution.

With all the anti-constitutional activities ever since (as I remember it)
the Tonkin resolution, why blame it on me? I am not a constitutional
scholar, and my rantings don't carry any weight to responsible people
other than bringing up discussion points. As a matter of fact, the
SCOTUS can't agree on many constitutional affairs, and I am truly amazed
it has been only verbal fisticuffs (if I can call the disagreements
between justices that, especially in the ACA case). If what I say is
anticonstitutional, I need to apologize. It isn't meant to be. OTOH,
whatever you refer to, it is my interpretation of what IS constitutional.

Yes, the fact that there are amendments to the Constitution means it
is subject to revision (and re-revision, a la prohibition).

Fine. Then amend it, if you don't think the US doesn't stand up to
your Holland. The rules are enclosed inside. Good luck!

If you drive that a little bit further, you'd have to go back to, and
hand everything over to the original occupants of this land.

Moreover, as I
understand the Constitution, it prescribes a division of powers, with
(I think) the SCOTUS as the last arbiter. AT least that is the
current interpretation. I think it was Scalia who in an interview
re-iterated what Roberts had said in slightly different words. We are
loath to overturn on ideology if the legal phraseology can be
interpreted in favor of a passed law.

What I meant as a status quo vehicle was that Congress has difficulty
making laws (certainly at the moment) that would re-interpret previous
laws. And with that I mean to say that once a law is on the books,
changing for instance dividends and capital gains into ordinary income
for tax purposes is difficult. Lobbyists and all.

Um, that's *not* unintentional. The Constitution is all about
"gridlock". It's not a bad thing at all.

I think you're right on the things in those last 2 sentences.

Sorry, I may make less sense now than I first thought. Damned
whooping cough ...

Blame it on the drugs. ;-)

Guys, do yourselves a favor and get the booster vaccination for
pertussis, I think it is call Tdap. I've been sick or sickish for
months now, and the coughing is terrible.

I had it as a teen. Wasn't fun.

It surely isn't either as adult. Less bounce-back.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

Han wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

Han wrote:

I was born in the last year of WWII. Large parts of the town I
grew up in (Wageningen) were destroyed twice in that war. I know
pretty well that at times armed insurrection is necessary, and I am
also eternally grateful (that's not a sop) for the Allies who gave
their lives for our freedom. Still, I am rather fearful of white
supremacists and other paramilitary groups, whether left or right.

Those guys though, are not the people who are protected by the 2nd
Ammendment. At least the ones who act out their "anxieties".

But the anxiety that the 2nd Amendment is getting compromised is
played out in front of those, and they (unfortunately) act on it.

So - do you have some links showing these acts? I get the fear part,
but I don't get the part of you believing they are acting out threats
to the second ammendment.

There are (I think) people who believe that their 2nd amendment rights
are about to be violated, and they go out and get armed to the teeth. As
well as those who are afraid of perceived rising chances of being
involved in violence. I am definitely not sure that all those people in
either category get enough education in how to handle their weapons
safely, and how to keep them secure. But those are my fears. I don't
know squat about firearms.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

" wrote in
:

On 18 Aug 2012 21:40:57 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
news
When you can show me how "earnest effort" adds to the bottom line,
I'll listen. Effort is meaningless. "Work" (think physics) makes
money.

There is more than the bottom line, in my opinion. Being charitable
gets at least brownie points. And I would as supervisor definitely
discuss work-related problems with the problem person. Sometimes my
hands were tied, though.

Huh? What does charity have to do with work? An employer hires fir
charity? I suppose it happens (wife's no-good nephew needs a job) but
should it be normal? You want to reward those who put out the
greatest effort at being poor? It must be your meds again. The first
two sentences make no sense.

The second two are just as weird. Sure, I'll stipulate that a
supervisor discusses "work-related problems". Yes, sometimes hands
are tied. OK?

Paint me totally confused by the above paragraph.

Call me sentimental. If there were both an asshole and a sympathetic
person working for me and I had to get rid of one, I'd get rid of the
asshole, other things being roughly equal.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:


The conversation is *far* more general than that. That said, if
there is no one willing to pick crops for whatever makes sense,
they'll come from somewhere else, some sort of legal visa program
will be put in place, or machines will do it. Any way you go, it's
better than having illegals in the country.

We agree on that.

--

-Mike-

" wrote in
:

"retirement" has its benefits.

Indeed, except for the whooping cough ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

Conservatives -and- Liberals
should do this on a regular basis, lest we get over our heads in deep
ruts.

Agree. I try. In 4 out of 5 cases I get very disgusted.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

I _truly_ don't see why. When he played all moderate and such before
election, I had hopes for him and for the country. But then look what
he did in office. He turned radically liberal, nearly from day one.

OTOH, the liberals complain that as soon as he was elected he turned to
compromising, sorry giving in, to the right, and they are hammering him and
congressional democrats to not give in any more.

I guess perception is what consfuses us all.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 8/18/2012 3:54 PM, Han wrote:
Jack wrote in :

Whatsamatter, you don't like someone else arbitrarily deciding pay
rates and what's a "fair" wage? There is a reason the free market
works better than government control. It's the same reason the USA at
one time was the greatest country on earth and people fought to get in,
instead of out as in government controlled (socialist) environments.

In this communist-controlled country there is no free market.
In this capitalist-monopolized country they make believe there is a free
market.

No not lately, thats for sure.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 8/18/2012 1:11 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Jack writes:

Recently heard on TV that oil companies make about 6-8 cents on a gallon
of gas. Government makes 40 to 66 cents on the same gallon. In
Californica the gov makes 66 cents on a gallon.

5 minutes of research would show that california makes 35.3 cents on
a gallon (WA 37.5 cents, NC 35.2 cents, maine 30 cents, Minnesota 27 cents).
When you add local (e.g. sales) taxes, CA is 50 cents, Connecticut is 51 cents,
Hawaii 49 cents, Illinois 50.6 cents, usw).

Gov't making 50 cents on a gallon is between 40 and 66 cents. The oil
companies make far, far, far less at 6 - 8% profit/ and they do all the
work. The asshole socialists want to tack on a windfall profit tax on
companies making a small profit, while they are the ones ripping off the
public. Then, the dicks turn around and give 1/2 a billion to Solyndra
to **** away into the wind. Meanwhile, MS and Apple are making 30-40%
profits on their monopoly, and no one even whispers windfall profit.
Quite a joke.

http://www.californiagasprices.com/tax_info.aspx

Don't believe everything you hear on TV, especially on Fox News.

I rarely watch Fox news, but I no longer, ever watch the other democrat
controlled news networks, they are a total joke, geared towards the
clueless.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 8/18/2012 3:43 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
On 08/18/2012 02:30 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 05:12:40 -0400, Dave wrote:

As usual, content of your posts matches your IQ; zero.

Oh ouch, that hurts. I'd rather be me with a zero IQ than be the
sanctimonious asshole you are every day of the week.

We're both happy, then. what a maroon

PDFTT

Dave is an idiot, not a troll. krw doesn't waste much time talking to
the idiot, he pretty much keeps his replies concise and on target. Much
better than trying to talk sense to him, as I've seen you try many
times. An occasional 2 seconds spent with krw simply calling the
numbskull an idiot or a maroon is ok with me. Watching you try to pound
some sense into the blockhead is trying.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 8/18/2012 3:52 PM, Han wrote:
Jack wrote in :

On 8/17/2012 5:16 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 8/17/2012 1:56 PM, Jack wrote:

I do know bottled water costs more than gas . . .


I can buy bottled water for under $2/gallon. Tell me where I can buy
gasoline at under $2/gallon.

Quick look on the net found PERRIER for just $19/gal. I suggest you buy
all you can for under $2 a gallon and get yourself good and filthy rich.

Aquafina @ Amazon 32 bottles of 16.9 fl oz for $5.92. That is $3.70/gal,
like gasoline. Better look for specails ...

Aquafina is tap water, comes out of the Detroit river. $3.70 a gallon
for water you get from the local river vs. gas that is a bit more
difficult to get out of the ground and refine is plain stupid. You pay
2000 times more for Aquafina than you would from the tap. Gasoline on
the other hand is a great deal, and the oil companies should be
applauded not attacked.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 8/18/2012 8:33 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 23:52:28 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

How about leaving, period? There were 80 unread messages in this group
this evening. 22 were from you. 20 were from Han. Don't you think the
two of you have said about all there is to say on the issue?

Are you really too stupid to use a killfile? ...or are you always trying to
limit other's speech?

Apparently he is a flaming liberal, so yes, too stupid would be where to
place your bets...


--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 8/18/2012 8:57 PM, Han wrote:
" wrote in
:

If Gass wins, he will have been handed a legal monopoly on table saws,
and who knows what else. I suppose you would be in favor of that.

If you look back through this newsgroup, you'd find that I proposed that
Gass should be forced to accept a (mediated) licensing settlement that
would give him a fair return on investment, but would not give him the
blackmail that he now expects.

So then, you not only like government mandated wages, but also
government mandated pricing.

So much for the silly cow cat milk fiasco.

Mind you, I think Gass should be fairly
compensated, and I don't know how much that should be.

I think 3 cents over minimum wage would be perfect!


--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

Han wrote:


There are (I think) people who believe that their 2nd amendment rights
are about to be violated, and they go out and get armed to the teeth.
As well as those who are afraid of perceived rising chances of being
involved in violence. I am definitely not sure that all those people
in either category get enough education in how to handle their weapons
safely, and how to keep them secure. But those are my fears. I don't
know squat about firearms.

That is where I was going with my question Han. I appreciate your fears as
I said before, but to hold those closely in the face of what you admit is a
lack of knowledge speaks more about your own fears than it does about those
you fear. Knowledge Han - go learn something about these guys. Admitely -
they are whackos of one sort or another, but not generally in the sense that
you currently fear.

Here's why I ask questions and engage dialog like that. Your current fears
and level of knowledge are not terribly atypical. So - suppose a piece of
legislation is proposed that would "limit" or "control" these "fearful"
things. In your current state of understanding, that would seem prudent to
you and you might well find yourself a supporter of it. But - is it real
and is it meaningful? It will certainly affect the rights of others, but
for a good reason, or not? That's how feel good laws get passed and they do
nothing more than that - make uninformed people feel good. But the rhetoric
from the now-feeling-good uninformed people rises to loud levels - as if
there really were some value to it. Meanwhile...

--

-Mike-

Han wrote:


Call me sentimental. If there were both an asshole and a sympathetic
person working for me and I had to get rid of one, I'd get rid of the
asshole, other things being roughly equal.

Well - you just created a self serving scenario there Han. First off, you
define two extremes. On one end - the likeable. On the other end - the
despicable. Then you throw in the escape clause "other things being equal".
How often have you ever really seen that in life?

--

-Mike-

On 19 Aug 2012 01:03:33 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
:

On 18 Aug 2012 22:29:25 GMT, Han wrote:

Tim Daneliuk wrote in
:

On 08/18/2012 05:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Colleges graduate students where the market is heading - perhaps
with a little lag.

Maybe. But have you tried to hire a high quality plumber or
electrician lately. There is a TON of opportunity in the trades
and these are jobs that cannot easily be offshored. Unfortunately
a generation of American parents were brainwashed by the 1960s
Smelliest Generation that runs the universities that no one
can succeed without a college degree. Speaking as someone who
HAS a graduate degree (and briefly taught grad school) this is
nonsense.

Fully agree, but it seems some of that is coming back. Problem is
that a fully licensed (independent) plumber or electrician just about
has to get at least an associate degree to be able to read the regs
and do the accounting.

Even employees are needed.

Not sure what you mean.

I thought I was writing English. Plumbing companies hire plumbers, no? These
plumbers have no need to do the accounting and **** still runs downhill. ;-)

The employees of the plumber need to know
basics, but should follow the boss's instructions. I'd like to see more
kids go into the trades than are presently doing so, but if they want to
be more than just a bit over the position of gofer, they will soon need a
real high school education, or an associate's.

A associate's is overkill. OTOH, a real high school education may be
difficult to find, these days.

You are right about the web development stuff, but that's where
the market is. Hardcore engineering is dying here.

I'm actually saying the opposite: Web programming and Java are
now commodity skills - the manual labor of the IT industry.
There are too many people that can do this work and not enough
job openings.

Hardcore engineering is exactly what we're missing and where
all the demand is. I could probably place between 5-20 people
right now with just 1 year's experience in Linux engineering
and infrastructure if they knew basic system administration,
networking, and troubleshooting, and had good people skills
and a high integrity work ethic. The jobs I'm thinking of
start at well north of $50K/yr with full benefits, vacation,
401K matching, and instant vesting of all the money the company
does contribute to the 401K. A great first job for a young,
smart engineer ... and the company can't find 'em. That, sir,
is why jobs are leaving Dodge...

That would also be the kind of job to return ASAP when the
schools/students see the opportunity. Indeed, some of the lower level
off-shored jobs are coming back, I heard (don't ask, I don't remember
where I heard).

Not sure the (what was called "hard") engineering schools will. It
takes math, something sorely lacking in public schools these days. I
believe lower level jobs are coming back, or will if allowed to. My
CPoE shipped all production to Mexico in '08 and has already found
that it was a mistake (not sure the execs have admitted it yet). Much
of the engineering is already being "off-shored" from Japan to the US.
;-)

What's CPoE?

Same as a PPoE, but more current. ;-) (Current Place of Employment)

Math is coming back, I hope and think. Although I was ****ed by some
kind of editorial somewhere that claimed algebra wasn't really necessary
any more.

I think someone's pulling the wool over your eyes again. The second statement
is far more usual than you want to believe.

On 19 Aug 2012 01:19:31 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
:

On 18 Aug 2012 21:40:57 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
news
When you can show me how "earnest effort" adds to the bottom line,
I'll listen. Effort is meaningless. "Work" (think physics) makes
money.

There is more than the bottom line, in my opinion. Being charitable
gets at least brownie points. And I would as supervisor definitely
discuss work-related problems with the problem person. Sometimes my
hands were tied, though.

Huh? What does charity have to do with work? An employer hires fir
charity? I suppose it happens (wife's no-good nephew needs a job) but
should it be normal? You want to reward those who put out the
greatest effort at being poor? It must be your meds again. The first
two sentences make no sense.

The second two are just as weird. Sure, I'll stipulate that a
supervisor discusses "work-related problems". Yes, sometimes hands
are tied. OK?

Paint me totally confused by the above paragraph.

Call me sentimental. If there were both an asshole and a sympathetic
person working for me and I had to get rid of one, I'd get rid of the
asshole, other things being roughly equal.

That hasn't cleared up a thing. in fact, it has nothing to do with the
discussion at hand. Han, please get well soon.

"Han" wrote in message ...

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

On 18 Aug 2012 15:49:37 GMT, Han wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote in
m:

BINGO! Corruption encompasses all branches, beginning with some of
the lowly city gov't folks, worsening in state gov't, and
skyrocketing in the totally corrupt CONgress. That's why it will
take the people, all of us, to bring about REAL change in our
country.


How, Larry? We have a Constitution to work with. A very powerful
status quo vehicle.

Good question. We have to force the corrupt CONgresscritters into
doing our actual wishes, LISTENING to their constituents and acting on
it. If they continue to fail do do so, they may force the public into
action. I sense another revolution brewing in our future. Don't you?
Let's hope it isn't a bloody one. (Or racially motivated, which would
be even worse.)

Great!!

Things I'd like to see immediately a

1) Downsizing gov't (50-75% oughta do it) since it's rife with
duplication and unnecessary agencies.

I think that has been tried without much success. In part because the
lawyers are too smart (sic!!) to allow the intent of a regulation or law
to overrule the loophole seekers.

2) Elimination of deficits.

Means taxes ...

3) Reduction of the US debt.

Paying them off costs ...

4) Buttoning up of the borders, eliminating ILlegal entry.

I think we are on the way. Of course, if the Mexicans (substitute at
will) have a better economy and safer environment, they'd probably like
to stay where they are.

5) Deportation of bad actors and all illegals of all races.

Fine. Does that include the grownups who were brought (illegally) here
when they were 6? Who never even knew they were illegal until they
needed papers? Who got educated here, have our customs, and no criminal
record?

6) Elimination of money in politics by moving to a (dare I say it?)
somewhat socialistic "kitty" base.

I'd like that too, but it is probably wildly utopian,

7) Elimination of "use it or lose it" funding in gov't agencies so we
don't see year-end mass buying sprees to use up current funds which
aren't needed.

Yes! I'm all for it. I remember the calls from upstairs (around this
time): We have $10K to spend, what instrument do you want?

8) Elimination of the DHS, reverting to FBI (internal), CIA (external)
plus a few others as necessary.

Accepted.

9) Ending the Wars on Terror, Drugs, and Poverty since they are having
the opposite effect.

That should include legalizing drugs and taxing them twice as much as
treatments cost.

================================================== =========================
That should work. Run the prices up to the point that the black market stays
in business.

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 16:53:08 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
That is a good piece of information Edwin. Worth watching to see what does
develop within the insurance industry. But - in contrast to the current
claims about insurance companies, it remains something that is on the radar
scope, and not something that is in effect today.

If doesn't have to be in effect in writing for it to be in active. The
unspoken suggestion is reason enough.

Perhaps you should ask why a few companies have switched entirely over
to SawStops? Lee Valley Tools is one that comes to mind. Between their
customer seminars and the occasional cutting their employees do, they
had little choice when it came to putting SawStops in all their
stores.

No mandating of SawStops by Canadian insurance industries as far as I
know, but the unspoken suggestion to get them has spread pretty wide.
Imagine one of those customers (or an employee) cutting off a finger?
The lawsuits would fly. LV being the responsible company it is plus
the chance of getting sued for an injury, LV had little alternative to
protect itself except to comply with an as yet unspoken insurance
company desire..

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 18:55:24 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
Man Tim - you should start a recruiting business because you'd have a corner
on the market. I do see those openings here and there but I probably
haven't seen 20 since the beginning of the year. Maybe it's a reflection of
where you live.

No, it's a reflection of his bull****.

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 20:33:44 -0400, "
Are you really too stupid to use a killfile? ...or are you always trying to
limit other's speech?

The only limits to speech should be the type of bull**** you spew
here.

On 19 Aug 2012 01:29:18 GMT, Han wrote:
I think we really agree that Gass is out for himself, and that we have to
resist. If the CPSC says that his invention is required, what is going to
determine the price?

The US is close to if not the most capitalist country in the world.
That recognition suggests that they deserve people like Gass. Get rich
any way you can. Isn't that a motto in the US?

There's swindlers and embezzlers in the US that have ripped of
thousands of people for their accumulated wealth. And, people are
complaining about Gass? What a crock!

On 8/18/2012 2:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:14:29 -0600, Just Wondering wrote:

On 8/17/2012 1:09 PM, Jack wrote:
On 8/17/2012 11:25 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Han wrote:

I don't think I have ever called for paying brain surgeons the same
as dog catchers.
No, Han, even you're not that far over the edge. ;-)
Yes, that would be Larry Blanchard, the guy that quotes GB Shaw, the
Fabian socialist prick that thought the solution to stupid,
unproductive people was to gas the suckers albeit as painlessly as
possible.

I think effort, ability and execution of the job are what count.
Yeah, that's a thought that seems out of sync with the times, if you
pay attention to the lame stream media, the educational system, the
democratic party, and at least a part of the repuglican party.

However, the real problem is third parties deciding what others
are "worth". It should be *entirely* between the employer and the
employee.
It's none of anyone else's damned business.
Amen brother!

The difficulty comes when two parties to a contract don't have equal
bargaining power. Just try bargaining with an insurance company over
the terms of your automobile liability policy and the premium you will
pay for coverage.
Easy, get a quote from another company.

That's not a negotiation between parties of comparable bargaining
power. Look up "adhesion contract":
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...esion+Contract

Dave wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 16:53:08 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
That is a good piece of information Edwin. Worth watching to see
what does develop within the insurance industry. But - in contrast
to the current claims about insurance companies, it remains
something that is on the radar scope, and not something that is in
effect today.

If doesn't have to be in effect in writing for it to be in active. The
unspoken suggestion is reason enough.

Perhaps you should ask why a few companies have switched entirely over
to SawStops? Lee Valley Tools is one that comes to mind. Between their
customer seminars and the occasional cutting their employees do, they
had little choice when it came to putting SawStops in all their
stores.

No mandating of SawStops by Canadian insurance industries as far as I
know, but the unspoken suggestion to get them has spread pretty wide.
Imagine one of those customers (or an employee) cutting off a finger?
The lawsuits would fly. LV being the responsible company it is plus
the chance of getting sued for an injury, LV had little alternative to
protect itself except to comply with an as yet unspoken insurance
company desire..

Yet - that was a decision of theirs.

--

-Mike-

Dave wrote:
On 19 Aug 2012 01:29:18 GMT, Han wrote:
I think we really agree that Gass is out for himself, and that we
have to resist. If the CPSC says that his invention is required,
what is going to determine the price?

The US is close to if not the most capitalist country in the world.
That recognition suggests that they deserve people like Gass. Get rich
any way you can. Isn't that a motto in the US?

Not that I've ever heard.


There's swindlers and embezzlers in the US that have ripped of
thousands of people for their accumulated wealth. And, people are
complaining about Gass? What a crock!

Yeah - same as everywhere.

--

-Mike-

" wrote in
:

On 19 Aug 2012 01:03:33 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
m:

On 18 Aug 2012 22:29:25 GMT, Han wrote:

Tim Daneliuk wrote in
:

On 08/18/2012 05:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Colleges graduate students where the market is heading - perhaps
with a little lag.

Maybe. But have you tried to hire a high quality plumber or
electrician lately. There is a TON of opportunity in the trades
and these are jobs that cannot easily be offshored. Unfortunately
a generation of American parents were brainwashed by the 1960s
Smelliest Generation that runs the universities that no one
can succeed without a college degree. Speaking as someone who
HAS a graduate degree (and briefly taught grad school) this is
nonsense.

Fully agree, but it seems some of that is coming back. Problem is
that a fully licensed (independent) plumber or electrician just
about has to get at least an associate degree to be able to read the
regs and do the accounting.

Even employees are needed.

Not sure what you mean.

I thought I was writing English. Plumbing companies hire plumbers,
no? These plumbers have no need to do the accounting and **** still
runs downhill. ;-)

OK. Those are more like plumbers' helpers then.

The employees of the plumber need to know
basics, but should follow the boss's instructions. I'd like to see
more kids go into the trades than are presently doing so, but if they
want to be more than just a bit over the position of gofer, they will
soon need a real high school education, or an associate's.

A associate's is overkill. OTOH, a real high school education may be
difficult to find, these days.

Yep!

You are right about the web development stuff, but that's where
the market is. Hardcore engineering is dying here.

I'm actually saying the opposite: Web programming and Java are
now commodity skills - the manual labor of the IT industry.
There are too many people that can do this work and not enough
job openings.

Hardcore engineering is exactly what we're missing and where
all the demand is. I could probably place between 5-20 people
right now with just 1 year's experience in Linux engineering
and infrastructure if they knew basic system administration,
networking, and troubleshooting, and had good people skills
and a high integrity work ethic. The jobs I'm thinking of
start at well north of $50K/yr with full benefits, vacation,
401K matching, and instant vesting of all the money the company
does contribute to the 401K. A great first job for a young,
smart engineer ... and the company can't find 'em. That, sir,
is why jobs are leaving Dodge...

That would also be the kind of job to return ASAP when the
schools/students see the opportunity. Indeed, some of the lower
level off-shored jobs are coming back, I heard (don't ask, I don't
remember where I heard).

Not sure the (what was called "hard") engineering schools will. It
takes math, something sorely lacking in public schools these days. I
believe lower level jobs are coming back, or will if allowed to. My
CPoE shipped all production to Mexico in '08 and has already found
that it was a mistake (not sure the execs have admitted it yet).
Much of the engineering is already being "off-shored" from Japan to
the US. ;-)

What's CPoE?

Same as a PPoE, but more current. ;-) (Current Place of Employment)

Math is coming back, I hope and think. Although I was ****ed by some
kind of editorial somewhere that claimed algebra wasn't really
necessary any more.

I think someone's pulling the wool over your eyes again. The second
statement is far more usual than you want to believe.

I can hope, can't I? And the believers in the second statement are wrong


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid