" wrote in
:

On 19 Aug 2012 01:03:33 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
m:

On 18 Aug 2012 22:29:25 GMT, Han wrote:

Tim Daneliuk wrote in
:

On 08/18/2012 05:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Colleges graduate students where the market is heading - perhaps
with a little lag.

Maybe. But have you tried to hire a high quality plumber or
electrician lately. There is a TON of opportunity in the trades
and these are jobs that cannot easily be offshored. Unfortunately
a generation of American parents were brainwashed by the 1960s
Smelliest Generation that runs the universities that no one
can succeed without a college degree. Speaking as someone who
HAS a graduate degree (and briefly taught grad school) this is
nonsense.

Fully agree, but it seems some of that is coming back. Problem is
that a fully licensed (independent) plumber or electrician just
about has to get at least an associate degree to be able to read the
regs and do the accounting.

Even employees are needed.

Not sure what you mean.

I thought I was writing English. Plumbing companies hire plumbers,
no? These plumbers have no need to do the accounting and **** still
runs downhill. ;-)

OK. Those are more like plumbers' helpers then.

The employees of the plumber need to know
basics, but should follow the boss's instructions. I'd like to see
more kids go into the trades than are presently doing so, but if they
want to be more than just a bit over the position of gofer, they will
soon need a real high school education, or an associate's.

A associate's is overkill. OTOH, a real high school education may be
difficult to find, these days.

Yep!

You are right about the web development stuff, but that's where
the market is. Hardcore engineering is dying here.

I'm actually saying the opposite: Web programming and Java are
now commodity skills - the manual labor of the IT industry.
There are too many people that can do this work and not enough
job openings.

Hardcore engineering is exactly what we're missing and where
all the demand is. I could probably place between 5-20 people
right now with just 1 year's experience in Linux engineering
and infrastructure if they knew basic system administration,
networking, and troubleshooting, and had good people skills
and a high integrity work ethic. The jobs I'm thinking of
start at well north of $50K/yr with full benefits, vacation,
401K matching, and instant vesting of all the money the company
does contribute to the 401K. A great first job for a young,
smart engineer ... and the company can't find 'em. That, sir,
is why jobs are leaving Dodge...

That would also be the kind of job to return ASAP when the
schools/students see the opportunity. Indeed, some of the lower
level off-shored jobs are coming back, I heard (don't ask, I don't
remember where I heard).

Not sure the (what was called "hard") engineering schools will. It
takes math, something sorely lacking in public schools these days. I
believe lower level jobs are coming back, or will if allowed to. My
CPoE shipped all production to Mexico in '08 and has already found
that it was a mistake (not sure the execs have admitted it yet).
Much of the engineering is already being "off-shored" from Japan to
the US. ;-)

What's CPoE?

Same as a PPoE, but more current. ;-) (Current Place of Employment)

Math is coming back, I hope and think. Although I was ****ed by some
kind of editorial somewhere that claimed algebra wasn't really
necessary any more.

I think someone's pulling the wool over your eyes again. The second
statement is far more usual than you want to believe.

I can hope, can't I? And the believers in the second statement are wrong


--
Best regards
Han
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