The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Stove?
Microwave?
Dishwasher?
Fridge?
Washer & dryer?
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
Cut the grass?
What other maintenance or repair?

Thanks for your time


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On 4/29/2012 6:49 AM, dadiOH wrote:
The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Stove?
Microwave?
Dishwasher?
Fridge?
Washer& dryer?
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
Cut the grass?
What other maintenance or repair?

Thanks for your time



Is this a year round house or a recreational house? The description to
me sounds like a cottage/recreational house. how many people would rent
a year?

If I were a renter there is almost no way in hell I would buy my own
appliances like a stove/fridge/washer. I'm sure there are a small
percentage of renters that would but most would not buy.

If I'm a renter and I'm doing maintenance I'd expect a discount on my
rent, me personally I did monthly maintenance on a house I rented and
received about 10% off rent. But that was years ago. That included snow
shovelling. You'll find with maintenance that some won't mind doing it
and others most certainly will mind doing it and all you can do is ask
and maybe adjust rent accordingly. And have it stated in a rental
agreement/contract. Some people want to rent so they don't have to do
maintenance and some people will do maintenance so that the landlord
isn't always at the house bothering them at inconvenient times like
dinner cutting hedges and lawns.

IMHO, I've always provided my own microwave and drapes but have expected
appliances to be provided and maintained and in safe good working orders
That way if I move after a year, whihc renters can do frequently, it's
an easy move. Dishwashers are an afterthought i think, used as option.

Hope this post helps you a little in some way and good luck man.

On 4/29/12 5:49 AM, dadiOH wrote:
The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Don't know
Stove?
Yes
Microwave?
No
Dishwasher?
Built in, maybe
Fridge?
Yes
Washer& dryer?
No
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Maybe
Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
No
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
No
Cut the grass?
No
What other maintenance or repair?
The tenant does the basic cleaning. Actual plumbing, carpentry
etc would be your problem.
Take pictures/video of the property before renting. Give a copy
to the tenants. That might help in the future.
It's been years since I rented anything also. I can't say what
current practice is as far as screening tenants, first, last months
rent,security deposits etc. Have you talked to your insurance agent
and/or an attorney?

Thanks for your time

dadiOH wrote:


Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would
appreciate knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent
an unfurnished house.

I haven't rented in 30 years, but I do know people who play renters on TV.
Here's my take...


Drapes? - Not necessary.

Stove? - Yes. In fact, I think it would be hard to rent without one.

Microwave? - Nope - That's a small appliance. Renter brings their own.

Dishwasher? - Not really necessary, but certainly desireable.

Fridge? - Yup - just like a stove.

Washer & dryer? Like a dishwasher - not really necessary, but
desireable.

Washer and dryer hookups only? If you're not going to include a washer
and dryer, it's probably better for you to provide the hookups so that a
"talented" renter doesn't take it upon himself to DIY that job.

Anything else? - Nothing else comes to mind.


I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these
yourself.

Change air filters? I have done this kind of thing in the past, but I
don't know how most renters would really feel about it. In the end, it's
probably owner and not renter responsibility.

Buy them? - Owner's responsibility.

Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt? - Owner's
responsibility on both counts.

Cut the grass? - In a house-for-rent situation like yours, I would think
the lawn mowing is the renter's responsibility. It always was when I was
renting years ago. So was snow shoveling, plowing, etc.

What other maintenance or repair? For the most part, maintenance and
repair are all the responsibility of the owner, not the renter. That
might even be in your best interest, depending of the tenant.


--

-Mike-

dadiOH wrote:
The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and
into which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now
ready to sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be
rented. I have only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and
that was years ago.
The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no
nothing.
The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would
appreciate knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent
an unfurnished house.

Drapes?
Stove?
Microwave?
Dishwasher?
Fridge?
Washer & dryer?
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these
yourself. Change air filters? Buy them?
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
Cut the grass?
What other maintenance or repair?

Thanks for your time

You have an opportunity to multiply your revenue. First, offer the place for
rent empty.

Second, for an additional sum, offer to provide essential appliances (stove,
fridge).

For an even greater additional amount, provide basic furniture (sofa, bed,
etc.).

Lastly, a small additional sum will get maintenance for the tenant (mowing,
a/c filter replacement, salt replenished, whatever).

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 06:49:41 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Stove?
Microwave?
Dishwasher?
Fridge?
Washer & dryer?
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
Cut the grass?
What other maintenance or repair?

Thanks for your time

Check the want ads under rental ptoperty and see what similar
properties (size, location) include and what the ballpark rent should
be.
Better yet, see if there's a real estate agent who deals in rental
property and get their opinion on how the house should be equipped.

On 4/29/2012 6:49 AM, dadiOH wrote:
The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

This depends greatly on how you structure the deal, and what market you
are trying to rent into. If you are doing lease-option you can rent it
the way you might sell it. If the other places on the market include
fridges and stoves and other amenities, you probably need to provide
them to be competitive.

On the other hand, if you are looking for a tenant that already has
those things, they are relocating, or got foreclosed out of their
current home, perhaps they already have the stove and fridge...



Drapes?

Not a high priority with me. Some window treatment is good, I have
apartments and I provide white blinds... Fabric would not be my first
choice, it fades, gets chewed up, and absorbs odors. Plus, it greatly
impacts other design choices. I tend to keep all MY design elements
more neutral so the tenant can push the rooms to their style without
painting.


Stove?

Probably yes, but compare to the other properties on the market.

Microwave?

Unless it is built-in, no.

Dishwasher?

See micro-wave...

Fridge?

See Stove...

Washer& dryer?

I lean towards no unless the market demands it. These get beat up and
turn into a maintenance hassle. I presume their is a laundry-mat
somewhere? In a multi-family I provide a commercial quality unit in a
public area.


Washer and dryer hookups only?

Yes. Make it easy to tie in.


Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?

In a stand-alone house, I would place this responsibility on the tenant.
The replacement of filters makes the system work better for them and
does not greatly affect how long it lasts for you.


Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?

If the water is so hard it will close up pipes and faucets, it might be
worth doing, if it is merely for comfort... it is their problem.

Cut the grass?

If the house is nearby, and easy to cut, you can do it, otherwise, I see
this as the difference between renting a house, and renting an
apartment. When you rent a house, you assume more of the duties of
normal operation.


However, the other side of the coin is that if you do these things, you
will have a reason to go inside and 'inspect' the condition of your
property on a regular basis. The hassle is that you will need to
co-ordinate, or at least advise your tenant about the times and days you
plan to visit, and the law usually requires you to give 24 hours notice
except in case of emergency.


What other maintenance or repair?


I would require that any repairs be done by the landlord or his agents.
You might get a tenant with the skills and tools to do this, but you
will probably get a guy who leaves a more expensive repair than the
proper tradesman would have cost in the first place. Besides, you want
to know what work is being done.


Thanks for your time

Play pretend renter and call around to other adverts.

This is all area dependant and dependant on what the competition is doing.

-----------------

"dadiOH" wrote in message ...

The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Stove?
Microwave?
Dishwasher?
Fridge?
Washer & dryer?
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
Cut the grass?
What other maintenance or repair?

Thanks for your time


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On 4/29/2012 8:33 AM, G. Morgan wrote:
dadiOH wrote:

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
No, but white mini-blinds on all appropriate windows. I'll choose
my own drapes.

Stove?
Must have.

Microwave?
Only if its brand new or part of a built-in custom cabinet. I
really don't want someone's used food particles!

Dishwasher?
Yes, if the space permits.

Fridge?
Yes. Renters don't usually have any big appliances.

Washer& dryer?
Yes, or at least hook-ups.

Washer and dryer hookups only?
Add extra $50/mo. for a W/D

Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Insist the renter change the filters on a regular basis, that you
will provide. It will be good for your A/C unit and good for
their health and electricity bill. Just leave a case in the
closet.

Make sure they have a fire extinguisher in the kitchen (but not
over the stove!). Verify the fire extinguisher is charged every
year, minimum. Put a clause in the lease that if they have to use
it, or notice the gauge low to notify you for an immediate
replacement. That will keep your ass covered. Of course, have a
lawyer look at/draft your lease papers, I am not a lawyer.

Install smoke detectors in each bedroom, outside each sleeping
area, and at least one on each floor if bi-level. Provide smoke
detector battery changes and testing on-schedule according to the
manufacturers instructions.

Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
Uh-oh. That is not something the average Joe may want to mess
with. Maybe you better do that yourself, how often does it need
it?

Cut the grass?
You buy the mower, and throw in the washer& dryer and I will cut
the grass.

What other maintenance or repair?
Most renters are going to expect you to have a plumber on the
doorstep within hours if water is a problem. If the A/C or heat
breaks, same thing, I want it back working that day or the
absolute soonest as possible. Don't be the cheap landlord that
takes days to call for estimates, hires low-ball or "questionable"
contractors, or delays problems. Remember, you are the business
and the renter is your *customer*. If you think it's okay to make
them sweat it out for two or three 100° summer days while you wait
for the weekend to fix the A/C yourself, you are not a landlord -
you'll be a slumlord! Familiarize yourself with 'renters rights',
if you fail to perform you could wind up paying way more in the
end. A bad landlord is just as bad as a lousy tenant.

Find a renter that will treat the home as if it were his own, and
you maintain it with quality parts and labor. When interviewing
folks, listen for "I'll plant a shrub here" or "I can build my
workshop back here"; indicators of long-term interest.

Where is it? I'm looking for one in the Houston area here pretty
soon.




Good post but I'd want it "spelled out" about landscaping and any long
term changes like sheds. I had the landlord from hell but I'll admit I
made mistakes too. Good communication and a friendly rapport is so
important with long term renters. The care of the yard can become a very
continuous issue because the landlord almost always pays for the water.

Your comment about quick (and good) repairs is very important too.

My ex-landlord must have been sued because he was always concerned about
lawsuits. After my last renting experience I'd never rent again or
become a landlord. My ex-landlord turned me into a homeowner so I guess
he deserves my gratitude. Now I'm sitting on a pile of equity.

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 06:49:41 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Depends on duration. I wouldn't buy/install quaility drapes for a 6
month lease.
Stove?
Must have
Microwave?
Perk, not a deal-breaker
Dishwasher?
Perk, not a dealbreaker
Fridge?
Must have
Washer & dryer?
BIG perk
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Must have
Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Yes
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
No
Cut the grass?
Yes
What other maintenance or repair?
Renter to provide usual household maintenaince associated with living,
i.e. plunging toilets, AC/heating filters, garden hoses, lawn mowers,
&tc.

Thanks for your time

On 4/29/2012 9:57 AM, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
On 4/29/2012 6:49 AM, dadiOH wrote:


I lean towards no unless the market demands it. These get beat up and
turn into a maintenance hassle. I presume their is a laundry-mat
somewhere? In a multi-family I provide a commercial quality unit in a
public area.

One of my old landlords had a multi-unit house and he provided us with a
coin operated washing and dryer. No way would I go to a laudromat so I
appreciated having that laundry room provided. Probably one of the
reasons I stayed there 6 years.

On 4/29/2012 10:10 AM, Duesenberg wrote:
On 4/29/2012 9:57 AM, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
On 4/29/2012 6:49 AM, dadiOH wrote:


I lean towards no unless the market demands it. These get beat up and
turn into a maintenance hassle. I presume their is a laundry-mat
somewhere? In a multi-family I provide a commercial quality unit in a
public area.

One of my old landlords had a multi-unit house and he provided us with
a coin operated washing and dryer. No way would I go to a laudromat
so I appreciated having that laundry room provided. Probably one of
the reasons I stayed there 6 years.

g I lived in a small efficiency with the laundry room directly across
the patio. Furnished with all utilities paid for $75/mth. Clean too.

On 4/29/2012 5:49 AM, dadiOH wrote:
The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Stove?
Microwave?
Dishwasher?
Fridge?
Washer& dryer?
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
Cut the grass?
What other maintenance or repair?

Thanks for your time



Kansas landlord here. We typically will equip a house as follows:

Stove,
Dishwasher (if there was a place for one) But i have purchased one
portable for one of our properties.
Washer and dryer hookups only


Air filters come as a gray area to me. It's in the best interest of the
equipment to change them regularly, but it's also in the contract that
the tenant will take care of regular maintenance items. So far, all my
tenants have been good about changing them. As for the whole house
waterfilters, i supply the replacement elements, as our area has some
real old iron lines and rust is a problem. I figure a couple bucks
twice a year help extend the life of the water heaters. No water
softeners here, but if there were one, i'd expect them to buy that
product needed. Of course mowing is the tenants responsibility. This is
not a maintainance provided operation. Here's my paragraph #20 in our
contract:

20. Maintenance and Repair. Lessee will, at his sole expense, keep and
maintain the leased premises and appurtenances in good and sanitary
condition and repair during the term of this lease and any renewal
thereof. In particular, Lessee shall keep the fixtures in the house or
on or about the leased premises in good order and repair; keep the
furnace clean; keep the electric bills in order; keep the walks free
from dirt and debris; and, at his sole expense, shall make all required
repairs to the plumbing, range, heating, apparatus, and electric and gas
fixtures whenever damage thereto shall have resulted from Lessee’s
misuse, waste, or neglect or that of his employee, family, agent, or
visitor. Major maintenance and repair of the leased premises, not due to
Lessee’s misuse, waste, or neglect or that of his employee, family,
agent, or visitor, shall be the responsibility of Lessor or his assigns.
Lessee agrees that no signs shall be placed or painting done on or about
the leased premises by Lessee or at his direction without the prior
written consent of Lessor.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 06:49:41 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:

The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Stove?
Microwave?
Dishwasher?
Fridge?
Washer & dryer?
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
Cut the grass?
What other maintenance or repair?

Thanks for your time

Kitchen appliances are a must. You may find that, at least some, are required
by law. Washer and dryer hookups are a nice bonus. If you can put them in
easily, do it. It may sell the place.

Maintenance, probably not. Air filters? Well, if they're paying the utility
bills (highly recommended) let them buy the filters. Cut the grass, yes, you
can ask the tenant to do that but expect it to weed out some potential
renters. Salt is a tough one. If they don't maintain it, they'll have hard
water but I don't see how you can force the issue.

Drapes, at least put in *good* curtain rods. You don't want each tenant
drilling holes to mount their own. Also specify in the lease that they're not
to hang their own. I've found that many rentals get around this with blinds.
They're expensive and can be damaged, but that's what the security deposit is
for. Put it in the lease and that you will make sure they're clean on
move-out. If you provide the drapes, expect to have to clean them between
each tenant.

If possible, as part of the lease, or an addendum, have a list of charges for
cleaning the apartment. There are some things you probably can't do,
depending on your jurisdiction, but the kitchen should be clean (including the
oven), as should the bathroom. The floors should be "swept clean" (vacuumed).

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:51:26 -0400, wrote:

Better yet, see if there's a real estate agent who deals in rental
property and get their opinion on how the house should be equipped.

I rented out two homes. 3BR/1B single story family homes. Equipped
with what was in the houses when I bought them.

My agent was very helpful as she owned some rental properties. Used
parts of her lease agreements, with some modifications.

Each state has variations on renter protection laws as well as
landlord laws. Get to know them. Understand the eviction processes
for when you can evict and when you cannot. I read that in some areas
you cannot evict a tenant during the winter?

Strongly suggest the renter acquire renter's insurance. Consider a
month to month lease verses a year long lease. It seems easier to
evict a tenant using a month to month lease.

On 4/29/2012 6:49 AM, dadiOH wrote:
The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Stove?
Microwave?
Dishwasher?
Fridge?
Washer& dryer?
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Anything else?

A lot would depend on location, comparable homes, whom you expect to
rent to....drapes, washer and dryer for a couple of kids just out of
college may be a negative...they would take down the drapes, toss 'em in
a box and put up blinds. Fridge...newbie leaves spoiled meat in the
fridge and ruins it. Stackable washer/dryer great for starter; hookup
for family with assets.

Forget drapes...they are very expensive, if decent, and easy to damage.
Install nice blinds...everyone needs window coverings and it can be a
major expense if they need to furnish their own. If they are long-term
and want drapes, offer to have rods installed. I would not want to buy
drapes for a rental home to get windows covered.

What to expect in a rental...fridge, range, (lucky to get washer and
dryer). Anyone can bring their own microwave, and I get along fine
without a dishwasher. Again, it depends...is this a FAMILY home, with 3
br? Furnish adequately for a family of four or five. One br
efficiency, then furnish for someone on the move.

Log home???!!!!

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Sure.
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
Have it delivered?
Cut the grass?
Hire someone unless renter offers to do it for a discount.
What other maintenance or repair?
Arrange with local plumber and electrician to be available for
emergencies unless you can do it 24/7....if the water heater or furnace
go while you are on vacation, etc.

Thanks for your time


If charging a security deposit and/or cleaning deposit, state in the
lease what is required to get it back. Another post in the thread
mentioned security deposits, and it can be a bear...Michigan, from
personal experience, has very precise requirements about notice to
renter that the s.d. will be forfeited, terms for giving notice of same,
blah, blah, blah. Have an attorney draw up lease and advise re further
plans.

Pouring money into the home? Then sell it. Of course, if it is a
high-end rental, and you can screen renters to your satisfaction, then
eliminate all who have not remained in previous rental at least two
years. My brother lived in the same rental building 65 years; landlord
said he wished he could have been his tenant another 65.

I have rented, in my very young days, from some real clowns. Laws are a
bit better now. In my last rental, I painted/caulked the paintable
parts of the house, repaired badly installed doors, took care of
landscaping, etc.

On 4/29/2012 9:57 AM, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
On 4/29/2012 6:49 AM, dadiOH wrote:
The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and
into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

This depends greatly on how you structure the deal, and what market you
are trying to rent into. If you are doing lease-option you can rent it
the way you might sell it. If the other places on the market include
fridges and stoves and other amenities, you probably need to provide
them to be competitive.

On the other hand, if you are looking for a tenant that already has
those things, they are relocating, or got foreclosed out of their
current home, perhaps they already have the stove and fridge...



Drapes?

Not a high priority with me. Some window treatment is good, I have
apartments and I provide white blinds... Fabric would not be my first
choice, it fades, gets chewed up, and absorbs odors. Plus, it greatly
impacts other design choices. I tend to keep all MY design elements more
neutral so the tenant can push the rooms to their style without painting.


Stove?

Probably yes, but compare to the other properties on the market.

Microwave?

Unless it is built-in, no.

Dishwasher?

See micro-wave...

Fridge?

See Stove...

Washer& dryer?

I lean towards no unless the market demands it. These get beat up and
turn into a maintenance hassle. I presume their is a laundry-mat
somewhere? In a multi-family I provide a commercial quality unit in a
public area.


Washer and dryer hookups only?

Yes. Make it easy to tie in.


Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these
yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?

In a stand-alone house, I would place this responsibility on the tenant.
The replacement of filters makes the system work better for them and
does not greatly affect how long it lasts for you.


Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?

If the water is so hard it will close up pipes and faucets, it might be
worth doing, if it is merely for comfort... it is their problem.

Cut the grass?

If the house is nearby, and easy to cut, you can do it, otherwise, I see
this as the difference between renting a house, and renting an
apartment. When you rent a house, you assume more of the duties of
normal operation.

That could be a hassle...landlord over every week at HIS convenience to
cut the grass? What if renter sleeps days? I'm thinking of all kinds
of reasons not to rent this home )


However, the other side of the coin is that if you do these things, you
will have a reason to go inside and 'inspect' the condition of your
property on a regular basis. The hassle is that you will need to
co-ordinate, or at least advise your tenant about the times and days you
plan to visit, and the law usually requires you to give 24 hours notice
except in case of emergency.


What other maintenance or repair?


I would require that any repairs be done by the landlord or his agents.
You might get a tenant with the skills and tools to do this, but you
will probably get a guy who leaves a more expensive repair than the
proper tradesman would have cost in the first place. Besides, you want
to know what work is being done.


Thanks for your time

It's always different based on locale, but see below.

On 4/29/2012 6:49 AM, dadiOH wrote:
The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
NO
Stove?
Absolutely
Microwave?
No
Dishwasher?
No
Fridge?
Yes

Washer& dryer?
No
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Possibly is it far from public wash/dry
Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
NO
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
No
Cut the grass?
No
What other maintenance or repair?

Thanks for your time

My gut sense, is to leave the place untouched, and negotiate with potential
renters. No sense sinking more money into the place. Renters can tell you
what they want.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Stove?
Microwave?
Dishwasher?
Fridge?
Washer & dryer?
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
Cut the grass?
What other maintenance or repair?

Thanks for your time


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:05:05 -0700, Zz Yzx wrote:

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 06:49:41 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Depends on duration. I wouldn't buy/install quaility drapes for a 6
month lease.
Stove?
Must have
Microwave?
Perk, not a deal-breaker

More importantly, $100 at WallyWorld. It's something the tenant can easily
buy if desired.

Dishwasher?
Perk, not a dealbreaker

It's a house, one would assume rather up-scale. In that market it may be a
deal-breaker.

Fridge?
Must have
Washer & dryer?
BIG perk
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Must have

I would agree in a high-end rental. In an apartment, not so much.

Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Yes
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
No
Cut the grass?
Yes
What other maintenance or repair?
Renter to provide usual household maintenaince associated with living,
i.e. plunging toilets, AC/heating filters, garden hoses, lawn mowers,
&tc.

Thanks for your time

"gonjah" gonjah.net wrote

g I lived in a small efficiency with the laundry room directly across
the patio. Furnished with all utilities paid for $75/mth. Clean too.

I bought a house with 3 br, garage and paid only $85 for the mortgage+
taxes. Had to buy appliances and utilities though.

On Apr 29, 6:49*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. *Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. *I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

* The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

* The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

* Drapes?
* Stove?
* Microwave?
* Dishwasher?
* Fridge?
* Washer & dryer?
* Washer and dryer hookups only?
* Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
* Change air filters? *Buy them?
* Maintain salt level in water softener? *Buy the salt?
* Cut the grass?
* What other maintenance or repair?

Thanks for your time

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

First thing, check the law. Generally (but YMMV) in the US you can't
rent without a certificate of occupancy and that normally specifies a
working kitchen. There may be other requirements in your locality
specific to rentals.

Stuart Wheaton wrote:
On 4/29/2012 6:49 AM, dadiOH wrote:



However, the other side of the coin is that if you do these things,
you will have a reason to go inside and 'inspect' the condition of
your property on a regular basis. The hassle is that you will need to
co-ordinate, or at least advise your tenant about the times and days
you plan to visit, and the law usually requires you to give 24 hours
notice except in case of emergency.


Where in the hell did you come up with this idea? Show me anywhere that any
law says that just by mowing the lawn, you have any right to "inspect" your
tenant's property. That was just... well.. dumb...


--

-Mike-

Norminn wrote:


That could be a hassle...landlord over every week at HIS convenience
to cut the grass? What if renter sleeps days? I'm thinking of all
kinds of reasons not to rent this home )


At HIS convenience - to do something for you? You should probably continue
living in mommy's basement.


--

-Mike-

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 06:49:41 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Stove?
Microwave?
Dishwasher?
Fridge?
Washer & dryer?
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
Cut the grass?
What other maintenance or repair?

Thanks for your time


I manage my own and have managed for others, single family homes for
over 25 years while being a license real estate broker. I used to
work with clients (buy, sell, manage, etc... ) but now only for
myself. I could answer these questions but won't because unless it's
around Houston, Tx., the answers could be different. You really need
to see what the competition is doing in your area so you can be
competitive. I'd suggest to talk to at least 2 Realtors locally and
ask them these questions and let them show you on paper the
competition to see what they provide as well as the pricing. I might
also suggest to list with a Realtor because they can do a lot of work
for you, answer your follow up questions and provide the lease as
well. Our lease over the years has gotten so long that it's now15
pages. It's quite comprehensive of course. Of course it's only a
piece of paper if you know what I mean. Oh some Realtors can manage
your property if you don't feel comfortable doing it but be careful.
You really only want experienced managers. Also check what the
licensing requirements for others to manage your property are, if you
go that route. I could tell you stories about managing property for
others but I don't know if it would help you. Besides if you don't
go this route, I'm wasting your time.

On 4/29/2012 3:49 AM, dadiOH wrote:
The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Stove?
Microwave?
Dishwasher?
Fridge?
Washer& dryer?
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Anything else?

A stove and refrigerator is expected in a rental. A dishwasher, washer,
and dryer make it easier to rent and for a higher price. But expect to
spend money maintaining those appliances.

The dishwasher is what I've consistently had the most trouble with. I'm
on the fourth one after renting the place our for 18 years. For the
washer and dryer I did something really smart--I went to a commercial
laundry supplier and bought a commercial washer and dryer. They were
about 2X the price of consumer models, but they are built far better
because they are designed for continuous use in commercial environments.
They have stood up to anything the tenants could throw at them, and have
required none of my time to repair.

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
Cut the grass?
What other maintenance or repair?

All of that is expected of the landlord but you could negotiate with the
tenant to do those things. Some tenants will call you for every little
thing, a loose faucet handle, the chain coming off of the flusher on the
toilet, cob webs blocking the electric eye of the garage door opener.
Some will take care of that stuff themselves.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 00:24:51 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
Where in the hell did you come up with this idea? Show me anywhere that any
law says that just by mowing the lawn, you have any right to "inspect" your
tenant's property. That was just... well.. dumb...

Don't know about down there, but that 'dumb' law as you phrase it
exists up here. With a 24 hour notice, the superintendent can come in
and inspect a number of things, the primary one being the in suite
fire alarm.

Dave wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 00:24:51 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
Where in the hell did you come up with this idea? Show me anywhere
that any law says that just by mowing the lawn, you have any right
to "inspect" your tenant's property. That was just... well..
dumb...

Don't know about down there, but that 'dumb' law as you phrase it
exists up here. With a 24 hour notice, the superintendent can come in
and inspect a number of things, the primary one being the in suite
fire alarm.

Well - that's with notice, which is not what the previous comment was.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Stuart Wheaton wrote:
On 4/29/2012 6:49 AM, dadiOH wrote:



However, the other side of the coin is that if you do these things,
you will have a reason to go inside and 'inspect' the condition of
your property on a regular basis. The hassle is that you will need
to co-ordinate, or at least advise your tenant about the times and
days you plan to visit, and the law usually requires you to give 24
hours notice except in case of emergency.


Where in the hell did you come up with this idea? Show me anywhere
that any law says that just by mowing the lawn, you have any right to
"inspect" your tenant's property. That was just... well.. dumb...

The a/c filter is not usually found on the outside of the building.

"SMS" wrote

A stove and refrigerator is expected in a rental.

Stove, yes. Refrigerator, no.
At least in this area. Probably varies by region.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:11:33 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


"SMS" wrote

A stove and refrigerator is expected in a rental.

Stove, yes. Refrigerator, no.
At least in this area. Probably varies by region.

In my area, stove...yes, refrig depends on which neighborhood around
me. Of course, it never hurts to have a refrig included for rental.
Also he has to think about if he includes applicances, how he will
treat them tax wise. He may need to read up on tax code or get an
accountant.

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:13:33 -0700 (PDT), "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On Apr 29, 6:49*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. *Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. *I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

* The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

* The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

* Drapes?
* Stove?
* Microwave?
* Dishwasher?
* Fridge?
* Washer & dryer?
* Washer and dryer hookups only?
* Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
* Change air filters? *Buy them?
* Maintain salt level in water softener? *Buy the salt?
* Cut the grass?
* What other maintenance or repair?

Thanks for your time

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

First thing, check the law.

Good idea.

Generally (but YMMV) in the US you can't
rent without a certificate of occupancy and that normally specifies a
working kitchen.

No, a 'fridge is not usually necessary to get a CO. Stove, yes.

There may be other requirements in your locality
specific to rentals.

Yes.

On 4/30/2012 10:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:13:33 -0700 (PDT), "J.
wrote:

On Apr 29, 6:49 am, wrote:
The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Stove?
Microwave?
Dishwasher?
Fridge?
Washer& dryer?
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
Cut the grass?
What other maintenance or repair?

Thanks for your time

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips& tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

First thing, check the law.

Good idea.

Generally (but YMMV) in the US you can't
rent without a certificate of occupancy and that normally specifies a
working kitchen.

No, a 'fridge is not usually necessary to get a CO. Stove, yes.

There may be other requirements in your locality
specific to rentals.

Yes.


None of this CO business in Kansas nor missouri. not familiar with the
rest. sounds like bs.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:21:50 -0400, "
No, a 'fridge is not usually necessary to get a CO. Stove, yes.

I didn't follow the beginning of this thread, so I don't know what a
"CO" is, but the last three rentals I've been in have always included
a stove and a fridge. That's been over a span of thirtyfive years. But
then, they were all apartments.

I think a house may fall under a different set of consideration
criteria when rental is considered. In my experience, cooking,
refrigeration and heating are considered minimum 'must haves'.

On 4/30/2012 12:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Apr 29, 6:49 am, wrote:
The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

The first was totally bare...no stove, no fridge, no drapes, no nothing.

The second had drapes - rather nice ones - and a stove but no fridge.

Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Drapes?
Stove?
Microwave?
Dishwasher?
Fridge?
Washer& dryer?
Washer and dryer hookups only?
Anything else?

I'd also appreciate knowing if you would expect to do any of these yourself.
Change air filters? Buy them?
Maintain salt level in water softener? Buy the salt?
Cut the grass?
What other maintenance or repair?

Thanks for your time

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips& tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

First thing, check the law. Generally (but YMMV) in the US you can't
rent without a certificate of occupancy and that normally specifies a
working kitchen. There may be other requirements in your locality
specific to rentals.

The area I lived in Florida required a business license...that might be
the correct term, but it was similar. City code requirement. I read
Florida laws re lease/rent, stating owners right to access, renter's
rights...been a while.

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 06:49:41 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

The log house which my wife wound up with after her mother died - and into
which we have been pouring money, lo, these many months - is now ready to
sell or rent. Given the market, it is most likely to be rented. I have
only rented two unfurnished apartments in my life and that was years ago.

....
Having no experience as either a renter or landlord, I would appreciate
knowing what you would expect if you were looking to rent an unfurnished
house.

Really no guidelines, it's between you and the tenant, and of course
can pretty much be adjusted by changing the rent.

I'm facing the same question, whether I can or should sell a house in
this awful market or try to rent it out to carry for a couple of
years, and if so just what to include.

As a landlord renting can either be a breeze or a nightmare, or
anything in between. Depends on the tenant of course, and also on
events, what happens to break and why.

J.

On Tue, 01 May 2012 12:47:34 -0700, JRStern
wrote:

I'm facing the same question, whether I can or should sell a house in
this awful market or try to rent it out to carry for a couple of
years, and if so just what to include.

Become the banker. Sell the cabin to the renter. If you hold the paper
know when to foreclose.

1) or remove front door

On Tue, 01 May 2012 13:07:19 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 01 May 2012 12:47:34 -0700, JRStern
wrote:

I'm facing the same question, whether I can or should sell a house in
this awful market or try to rent it out to carry for a couple of
years, and if so just what to include.

Become the banker. Sell the cabin to the renter. If you hold the paper
know when to foreclose.



As long as you know that a bankruptcy can stop a foreclosure dead in
its tracks (well at least in Texas). Going thru this now for the 2nd
time on a house I hold the paper to.

Doug wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 13:07:19 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 01 May 2012 12:47:34 -0700, JRStern
wrote:

I'm facing the same question, whether I can or should sell a house
in this awful market or try to rent it out to carry for a couple of
years, and if so just what to include.

Become the banker. Sell the cabin to the renter. If you hold the
paper know when to foreclose.



As long as you know that a bankruptcy can stop a foreclosure dead in
its tracks (well at least in Texas). Going thru this now for the 2nd
time on a house I hold the paper to.

In Texas, a homestead declaration can protect a home from seizure in
bankruptcy or other debt, with three exceptions:
1. Taxes,
2. A loan to BUY the property,
3. A loan to IMPROVE the property.

Florida has the same or similar protections. I don't know about other
states.

On 5/1/2012 4:50 PM, HeyBub wrote:
Doug wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 13:07:19 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 01 May 2012 12:47:34 -0700,
wrote:

I'm facing the same question, whether I can or should sell a house
in this awful market or try to rent it out to carry for a couple of
years, and if so just what to include.

Become the banker. Sell the cabin to the renter. If you hold the
paper know when to foreclose.



As long as you know that a bankruptcy can stop a foreclosure dead in
its tracks (well at least in Texas). Going thru this now for the 2nd
time on a house I hold the paper to.

In Texas, a homestead declaration can protect a home from seizure in
bankruptcy or other debt, with three exceptions:
1. Taxes,
2. A loan to BUY the property,
3. A loan to IMPROVE the property.

Florida has the same or similar protections. I don't know about other
states.


Very important for seniors and disabled. Remember to vote AND look for
this on the ballot.

You MUST vote in May to keep the Homestead tax cap for 65 and over, even
if you are not 65 yet. If you are a Texas homeowner then this is
important to YOU, no matter what your current age, or if you are
disabled or not. It WILL BENEFIT YOU in the future. It is also very
important to your relatives/friends who are in one of these groups
already. If you agree, please pass along to all on your TEXAS Residents
email lists.

I am sending this email to everyone on my email address list who lives
in Texas. I want to be certain you are aware of a constitutional
amendment that will be on the ballot at the May election. It is an
amendment to correct an error made by the lawmakers when they voted for
a reduction in school property taxes in 2005.

When the lawmakers voted for a one-third reduction in school property
taxes beginning in 2006 and to be completed this year, they FORGOT about
the Homestead Exemption for senior citizens (65 and older) and people
with disabilities. The state constitution caps school property taxes for
homeowners 65 years and older and those who are disabled.
However, they DID NOT get the same reduction when the property tax cut
for schools was voted on two years ago.

So an amendment is on the May ballot to correct this error.