Okay, this is probably is going to strike most of you as a horrific
idea... but the more I thought about it, the more sense (or, at least,
the less nonsense) it made.

Back when I was making my own Biesemeyer clone
(http://joe.emenaker.com/Table-Saw%20...w%20Fence.html), I
was cutting a lot of angle-iron and steel tubing on my RAS fitted with
a metal-cutting wheel. Boy, did that thing make sparks like the
dickens! I thought it was going to ignite the sawdust which had
accumulated behind the RAS from earlier projects.

Well, I'm about to buy a DC and make my own cyclone for it. It struck
me that I'd be *asking* for trouble if I tried cutting metal with a DC
hooked up and running.

But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little
water in it? The water would catch all/most of those sparks. Not only
that, but it would be nice just for plain wood chips, since it would
help keep them under control when you detatch the bid to dump it
out... and it would help guard against some other DC-related fire
hazards (like hitting a nail or something).

So, I figured I'd ask: Does anybody out there *do* this?
Alternatively, has this been discussed before?

- Joe

On 22 Jul 2004 17:09:17 -0700, Joe Emenaker wrote:

But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little
water in it? The water would catch all/most of those sparks.

....until the sawdust and woodchips wicked it all up.

So, I figured I'd ask: Does anybody out there *do* this?
Alternatively, has this been discussed before?

I used to have an old Allis Chalmers tractor that had a glass jar
as part of the air filtering mechanism, maybe was supposed to be
filled with (what?) to catch things going by, but I think the water
would rapidly turn into slightly moist sawdust and a hard cake.

Joe Emenaker wrote:

Okay, this is probably is going to strike most of you as a horrific
idea... but the more I thought about it, the more sense (or, at least,
the less nonsense) it made.

Back when I was making my own Biesemeyer clone
(http://joe.emenaker.com/Table-Saw%20...w%20Fence.html), I
was cutting a lot of angle-iron and steel tubing on my RAS fitted with
a metal-cutting wheel. Boy, did that thing make sparks like the
dickens! I thought it was going to ignite the sawdust which had
accumulated behind the RAS from earlier projects.

Well, I'm about to buy a DC and make my own cyclone for it. It struck
me that I'd be *asking* for trouble if I tried cutting metal with a DC
hooked up and running.

But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little
water in it? The water would catch all/most of those sparks. Not only
that, but it would be nice just for plain wood chips, since it would
help keep them under control when you detatch the bid to dump it
out... and it would help guard against some other DC-related fire
hazards (like hitting a nail or something).

So, I figured I'd ask: Does anybody out there *do* this?
Alternatively, has this been discussed before?

Now you end up with damp wood with an oxygen source. Can you say
"spontaneous combustion"?

- Joe

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Have you ever tried to bathe a cat?

"Joe Emenaker" wrote in message
om...
Okay, this is probably is going to strike most of you as a horrific
idea... but the more I thought about it, the more sense (or, at least,
the less nonsense) it made.

Back when I was making my own Biesemeyer clone
(http://joe.emenaker.com/Table-Saw%20...w%20Fence.html), I
was cutting a lot of angle-iron and steel tubing on my RAS fitted with
a metal-cutting wheel. Boy, did that thing make sparks like the
dickens! I thought it was going to ignite the sawdust which had
accumulated behind the RAS from earlier projects.

Well, I'm about to buy a DC and make my own cyclone for it. It struck
me that I'd be *asking* for trouble if I tried cutting metal with a DC
hooked up and running.

But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little
water in it? The water would catch all/most of those sparks. Not only
that, but it would be nice just for plain wood chips, since it would
help keep them under control when you detatch the bid to dump it
out... and it would help guard against some other DC-related fire
hazards (like hitting a nail or something).

So, I figured I'd ask: Does anybody out there *do* this?
Alternatively, has this been discussed before?

- Joe

(Joe Emenaker) wrote in message . com...

Well, I'm about to buy a DC and make my own cyclone for it. It struck
me that I'd be *asking* for trouble if I tried cutting metal with a DC
hooked up and running.

IMHO, you shouldn't cut ferrous metals on woodworking machines. Brass
or aluminium maybe, if you have nothing better, but steel swarf is
hard to clean up and can cause a lot of wear and damage. It's also
filthy stuff for things like "iron stain" on oak.

But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little
water in it?

Bad idea IMHO. If you have a steel cyclone, you're asking for
corrosion problems - especially if you then fill it with greenish oak
dust, or something equally acidic. It wouldn't even work - the sawdust
will soak up any free water, so you'd have to be adding gallons of it
to have any effect.

I'd just empty the DC collector before throwing sparks into it.

I've "tried" it. Sort of. Put a dehumidifier in the workshop and forgot to
turn it off while working. You know, they make paper out of wood fibers,
and that's what I had in the wet cooling vanes and in and on the collection
bucket.

The kind they make to catch lint from the dryer doesn't work that well,
either.

"Joe Emenaker" wrote in message
om...

But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little
water in it? The water would catch all/most of those sparks. Not only
that, but it would be nice just for plain wood chips, since it would
help keep them under control when you detatch the bid to dump it
out... and it would help guard against some other DC-related fire
hazards (like hitting a nail or something).

Hi Dave,
You are right about ending up with sawdust cake. I tried it in a plastic
receiver as an attempt to knock down the small dust particles as they
impinged on the surface. It works but the rapid passage of high volumes
of air caused the water to evaporate very quickly. Very moist air going
through the blower et al is not going to do it much good either. Cheers,
JG

Dave Hinz wrote:

On 22 Jul 2004 17:09:17 -0700, Joe Emenaker wrote:

But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little
water in it? The water would catch all/most of those sparks.

...until the sawdust and woodchips wicked it all up.

So, I figured I'd ask: Does anybody out there *do* this?
Alternatively, has this been discussed before?

I used to have an old Allis Chalmers tractor that had a glass jar
as part of the air filtering mechanism, maybe was supposed to be
filled with (what?) to catch things going by, but I think the water
would rapidly turn into slightly moist sawdust and a hard cake.

Mark Hopkins wrote:

Have you ever tried to bathe a cat?

Flashed on a friend who loved cats and loved his wife, who was allergic to
cat dander. Solution--remove the dander. So once a week he bathed six
cats. Surprisingly, the cats got to where they liked their bath, would
line up to be bathed, and became petulant if he didn't bathe them on time.

"Joe Emenaker" wrote in message
om...
Okay, this is probably is going to strike most of you as a horrific
idea... but the more I thought about it, the more sense (or, at least,
the less nonsense) it made.

Back when I was making my own Biesemeyer clone
(http://joe.emenaker.com/Table-Saw%20...w%20Fence.html), I
was cutting a lot of angle-iron and steel tubing on my RAS fitted with
a metal-cutting wheel. Boy, did that thing make sparks like the
dickens! I thought it was going to ignite the sawdust which had
accumulated behind the RAS from earlier projects.

Well, I'm about to buy a DC and make my own cyclone for it. It struck
me that I'd be *asking* for trouble if I tried cutting metal with a DC
hooked up and running.

But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little
water in it? The water would catch all/most of those sparks. Not only
that, but it would be nice just for plain wood chips, since it would
help keep them under control when you detatch the bid to dump it
out... and it would help guard against some other DC-related fire
hazards (like hitting a nail or something).

So, I figured I'd ask: Does anybody out there *do* this?
Alternatively, has this been discussed before?

- Joe

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
Mark Hopkins wrote:

Have you ever tried to bathe a cat?

Flashed on a friend who loved cats and loved his wife, who was allergic to
cat dander. Solution--remove the dander. So once a week he bathed six
cats. Surprisingly, the cats got to where they liked their bath, would
line up to be bathed, and became petulant if he didn't bathe them on time.


When I was growing up, our cat felt the need to supervise people baths.
Sitting right on the edge of the tub. With his tail dangling _into_ the
water.

I don't recall ever finding out his opinion of a -cat- bath. But he did
like to be _vacuumed_. Directly by the hose of a regular canister vacuum.

We also had a big Chesapeake Retriever who would 'shake' _on_command_ --
no, not 'shake hands', though he did that too, but after a bath. We would
tell him 'stand still', tent a big towel over him, and say 'Okay, _now_
shake', whereupon he would. Was also _real_ handy when bringing him in from
outside when it was raining or snowing.

Joe,
I do a fair amount of cutting and welding in my dual purpose shop. I put
the DC in primarily to keep sawdust from building up and becoming a fire
danger when I weld, grind or cut.

I never use the DC when working with metals. This can have very devastating
results, fire being the greatest danger. A hot piece may smolder in the
sawdust for a few minutes or even hours, then combust when you are sleeping!

The steel swarf, if left un-attended too, will rust the cast iron tables. It
is a pain, but when switching between wood and iron work, a good cleaning is
required.

I just finished a project that involved both trades. Pictures are in ABPW -
A very secure cabinet.

Dave

"Joe Emenaker" wrote in message
om...
Okay, this is probably is going to strike most of you as a horrific
idea... but the more I thought about it, the more sense (or, at least,
the less nonsense) it made.

Back when I was making my own Biesemeyer clone
(http://joe.emenaker.com/Table-Saw%20...w%20Fence.html), I
was cutting a lot of angle-iron and steel tubing on my RAS fitted with
a metal-cutting wheel. Boy, did that thing make sparks like the
dickens! I thought it was going to ignite the sawdust which had
accumulated behind the RAS from earlier projects.

Well, I'm about to buy a DC and make my own cyclone for it. It struck
me that I'd be *asking* for trouble if I tried cutting metal with a DC
hooked up and running.

But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little
water in it? The water would catch all/most of those sparks. Not only
that, but it would be nice just for plain wood chips, since it would
help keep them under control when you detatch the bid to dump it
out... and it would help guard against some other DC-related fire
hazards (like hitting a nail or something).

So, I figured I'd ask: Does anybody out there *do* this?
Alternatively, has this been discussed before?

- Joe

Robert Bonomi wrote:

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
Mark Hopkins wrote:

Have you ever tried to bathe a cat?

Flashed on a friend who loved cats and loved his wife, who was allergic to
cat dander. Solution--remove the dander. So once a week he bathed six
cats. Surprisingly, the cats got to where they liked their bath, would
line up to be bathed, and became petulant if he didn't bathe them on time.


When I was growing up, our cat felt the need to supervise people baths.
Sitting right on the edge of the tub. With his tail dangling _into_ the
water.

I don't recall ever finding out his opinion of a -cat- bath. But he did
like to be _vacuumed_. Directly by the hose of a regular canister vacuum.

Never encountered a cat that wouldn't run in terror from a vacuum. OTOH,
the neighbor's cat used to like to come over and get swept with a broom.

We also had a big Chesapeake Retriever who would 'shake' _on_command_ --
no, not 'shake hands', though he did that too, but after a bath. We would
tell him 'stand still', tent a big towel over him, and say 'Okay, _now_
shake', whereupon he would. Was also _real_ handy when bringing him in
from outside when it was raining or snowing.

Probably a big surprise for those who can't resist giving orders to somebody
else's dog too.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
Robert Bonomi wrote:

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
Mark Hopkins wrote:

Have you ever tried to bathe a cat?

Flashed on a friend who loved cats and loved his wife, who was allergic to
cat dander. Solution--remove the dander. So once a week he bathed six
cats. Surprisingly, the cats got to where they liked their bath, would
line up to be bathed, and became petulant if he didn't bathe them on time.


When I was growing up, our cat felt the need to supervise people baths.
Sitting right on the edge of the tub. With his tail dangling _into_ the
water.

I don't recall ever finding out his opinion of a -cat- bath. But he did
like to be _vacuumed_. Directly by the hose of a regular canister vacuum.

Never encountered a cat that wouldn't run in terror from a vacuum. OTOH,
the neighbor's cat used to like to come over and get swept with a broom.

What can I say. The cat was practically bigger than the vacuum was. grin
Anyway, he'd just lay down on his side, and when one side was done, he'd
roll over.

I don't remember how he got _introduced_ to it, but this was an _old_
green Eureka canister. It was extremely quiet, despite having a lot of
pulling power. Did a _great_ job of pulling out the old winter under-coat,
come spring time.

I gotta tell ya, vacuuming the livestock is a whole *lot* more efficient
than having to vacuum all the furniture, rugs, etc. to pick up shed hairs.

We also had a big Chesapeake Retriever who would 'shake' _on_command_ --
no, not 'shake hands', though he did that too, but after a bath. We would
tell him 'stand still', tent a big towel over him, and say 'Okay, _now_
shake', whereupon he would. Was also _real_ handy when bringing him in
from outside when it was raining or snowing.

Probably a big surprise for those who can't resist giving orders to somebody
else's dog too.

Chesapeake's are *smart* -- _ANNOYINGLY_ smart. However, in this case, he
knew the difference between 'sit' / 'shake', and 'stand still' / 'now shake'.
Heck, for 'shake' (hands), if you put out your left hand, he'd use his left
paw, and if you put out your right hand, he'd use his right paw. And if you
then said 'the other one' he'd drop whichever paw he had up, and offer 'the
other one'.

The 'stand still... OK, now shake' DID impress the hell out of any visitors
who happened to see it -- almost invariably the reaction was "I wouldn't
have believed it, if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes!"

"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message
ervers.com...
In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
Robert Bonomi wrote:

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
Mark Hopkins wrote:

Have you ever tried to bathe a cat?

Flashed on a friend who loved cats and loved his wife, who was allergic
to
cat dander. Solution--remove the dander. So once a week he bathed six
cats. Surprisingly, the cats got to where they liked their bath, would
line up to be bathed, and became petulant if he didn't bathe them on
time.


When I was growing up, our cat felt the need to supervise people baths.
Sitting right on the edge of the tub. With his tail dangling _into_
the
water.

I don't recall ever finding out his opinion of a -cat- bath. But he did
like to be _vacuumed_. Directly by the hose of a regular canister
vacuum.

Never encountered a cat that wouldn't run in terror from a vacuum. OTOH,
the neighbor's cat used to like to come over and get swept with a broom.

What can I say. The cat was practically bigger than the vacuum was.
grin
Anyway, he'd just lay down on his side, and when one side was done, he'd
roll over.

I don't remember how he got _introduced_ to it, but this was an _old_
green Eureka canister. It was extremely quiet, despite having a lot of
pulling power. Did a _great_ job of pulling out the old winter
under-coat,
come spring time.

I gotta tell ya, vacuuming the livestock is a whole *lot* more efficient
than having to vacuum all the furniture, rugs, etc. to pick up shed hairs.

We also had a big Chesapeake Retriever who would 'shake'
_on_command_ --
no, not 'shake hands', though he did that too, but after a bath. We
would
tell him 'stand still', tent a big towel over him, and say 'Okay, _now_
shake', whereupon he would. Was also _real_ handy when bringing him in
from outside when it was raining or snowing.

Probably a big surprise for those who can't resist giving orders to
somebody
else's dog too.

Chesapeake's are *smart* -- _ANNOYINGLY_ smart. However, in this case,
he
knew the difference between 'sit' / 'shake', and 'stand still' / 'now
shake'.
Heck, for 'shake' (hands), if you put out your left hand, he'd use his
left
paw, and if you put out your right hand, he'd use his right paw. And if
you
then said 'the other one' he'd drop whichever paw he had up, and offer
'the
other one'.

The 'stand still... OK, now shake' DID impress the hell out of any
visitors
who happened to see it -- almost invariably the reaction was "I wouldn't
have believed it, if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes!"

i shower my 4 cats pretty regularly. with 2 of them, i have to bang them
pretty good with the vacuum to get them to move. they're not afraid of it at
all and must think i'm pretty annoying when i want them to move.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Joe Emenaker wrote:

Okay, this is probably is going to strike most of you as a horrific
idea... but the more I thought about it, the more sense (or, at least,
the less nonsense) it made.

Back when I was making my own Biesemeyer clone
(http://joe.emenaker.com/Table-Saw%20...w%20Fence.html), I
was cutting a lot of angle-iron and steel tubing on my RAS fitted with
a metal-cutting wheel. Boy, did that thing make sparks like the
dickens! I thought it was going to ignite the sawdust which had
accumulated behind the RAS from earlier projects.

Well, I'm about to buy a DC and make my own cyclone for it. It struck
me that I'd be *asking* for trouble if I tried cutting metal with a DC
hooked up and running.

But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little
water in it? The water would catch all/most of those sparks. Not only
that, but it would be nice just for plain wood chips, since it would
help keep them under control when you detatch the bid to dump it
out... and it would help guard against some other DC-related fire
hazards (like hitting a nail or something).

So, I figured I'd ask: Does anybody out there *do* this?
Alternatively, has this been discussed before?

Now you end up with damp wood with an oxygen source. Can you say
"spontaneous combustion"?


--------Or a great source of MOULDS.

- Joe

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 13:56:33 -0400, "J. Clarke"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email


We also had a big Chesapeake Retriever who would 'shake' _on_command_ --
no, not 'shake hands', though he did that too, but after a bath. We would
tell him 'stand still', tent a big towel over him, and say 'Okay, _now_
shake', whereupon he would. Was also _real_ handy when bringing him in
from outside when it was raining or snowing.

Probably a big surprise for those who can't resist giving orders to somebody
else's dog too.

Hehe! Hate em. Had one the other day. As soon as he saw the dog he
commented that she was "Juuust not overweight" (she's not overweight),
and then told her to sit (which the bugger did much faster for him
than for me, but hey, it was probably surprise) for no reason at all.
Then he said "shake, and held his hand down to her paw. I said "She
doesn't shake" ......and he just held his hand there. It felt good to
see her just Sit, as ordered and look at him! G.

I reckon they are just one step form the guys who can't help hitting
on everyone's partner. It's a power thing.

I can understand why you get the average retriever to learn to shake
water on command! However, all my dogs have learned that one. As was
said it's very useful.
************************************************** ***
It's not the milk and honey we hate. It's having it
rammed down our throats.

Old Nick wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 13:56:33 -0400, "J. Clarke"
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email


We also had a big Chesapeake Retriever who would 'shake' _on_command_ --
no, not 'shake hands', though he did that too, but after a bath. We
would tell him 'stand still', tent a big towel over him, and say 'Okay,
_now_
shake', whereupon he would. Was also _real_ handy when bringing him in
from outside when it was raining or snowing.

Probably a big surprise for those who can't resist giving orders to
somebody else's dog too.

Hehe! Hate em. Had one the other day. As soon as he saw the dog he
commented that she was "Juuust not overweight" (she's not overweight),
and then told her to sit (which the bugger did much faster for him
than for me, but hey, it was probably surprise) for no reason at all.
Then he said "shake, and held his hand down to her paw. I said "She
doesn't shake" ......and he just held his hand there. It felt good to
see her just Sit, as ordered and look at him! G.

I reckon they are just one step form the guys who can't help hitting
on everyone's partner. It's a power thing.

I can understand why you get the average retriever to learn to shake
water on command! However, all my dogs have learned that one. As was
said it's very useful.

My favorite in that regard was the mutt (i.e. of no identifiable breed--the
closest one could narrow it down to was that it wasn't a cat) that learned
a command that sounded an awful lot like "sit". He didn't know or do "sit"
but sometimes if someone told him to "sit" he'd do the command that he did
know.

************************************************** ***
It's not the milk and honey we hate. It's having it
rammed down our throats.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
Old Nick wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 13:56:33 -0400, "J. Clarke"
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email


We also had a big Chesapeake Retriever who would 'shake' _on_command_ --
no, not 'shake hands', though he did that too, but after a bath. We
would tell him 'stand still', tent a big towel over him, and say 'Okay,
_now_
shake', whereupon he would. Was also _real_ handy when bringing him in
from outside when it was raining or snowing.

Probably a big surprise for those who can't resist giving orders to
somebody else's dog too.

Hehe! Hate em. Had one the other day. As soon as he saw the dog he
commented that she was "Juuust not overweight" (she's not overweight),
and then told her to sit (which the bugger did much faster for him
than for me, but hey, it was probably surprise) for no reason at all.
Then he said "shake, and held his hand down to her paw. I said "She
doesn't shake" ......and he just held his hand there. It felt good to
see her just Sit, as ordered and look at him! G.

I reckon they are just one step form the guys who can't help hitting
on everyone's partner. It's a power thing.

I can understand why you get the average retriever to learn to shake
water on command! However, all my dogs have learned that one. As was
said it's very useful.

My favorite in that regard was the mutt (i.e. of no identifiable breed--the
closest one could narrow it down to was that it wasn't a cat)

Ah. _That_ breed is often described as a 'purebred Heinz'


Then there was the time a guy took one of those critters into a bar where
a bunch of dog fanciers were holding session. Who immediately start ridiculing
the new arrival. Eventually, one of the guys asks the newcomer "Just _what_
kind of a dog *is* that, anyway?" The reply: "he's a Mexican Spitz." Which
sets the crowd off, again. Somebody deigns to explain "There ain't any such
animal." Whereupon the dog looks up, and says "Señor? Ptui!"

that learned
a command that sounded an awful lot like "sit". He didn't know or do "sit"
but sometimes if someone told him to "sit" he'd do the command that he did
know.

Mistakes _can_ happen, when you let somebody with a sever lisp try to teach
him to expectorate on command. *grin*

On 23 Jul 2004 00:16:19 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On 22 Jul 2004 17:09:17 -0700, Joe Emenaker wrote:

But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little
water in it? The water would catch all/most of those sparks.

...until the sawdust and woodchips wicked it all up.

So, I figured I'd ask: Does anybody out there *do* this?
Alternatively, has this been discussed before?

I used to have an old Allis Chalmers tractor that had a glass jar
as part of the air filtering mechanism, maybe was supposed to be
filled with (what?) to catch things going by, but I think the water
would rapidly turn into slightly moist sawdust and a hard cake.


On your tractor, that glass jar was supposed to be filled with ....
air. The use of glass jars as dust traps was a simple, easily replaceable
mechanism for filtering air prior to the engine intake. It may also have
had an adjunct oil-bath air cleaner that used oil to further trap
particles.

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 22:02:48 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:
On 23 Jul 2004 00:16:19 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

I used to have an old Allis Chalmers tractor that had a glass jar
as part of the air filtering mechanism, maybe was supposed to be
filled with (what?) to catch things going by, but I think the water
would rapidly turn into slightly moist sawdust and a hard cake.

On your tractor, that glass jar was supposed to be filled with ....
air.

Oh good, because that's what I always kept in there.

The use of glass jars as dust traps was a simple, easily replaceable
mechanism for filtering air prior to the engine intake. It may also have
had an adjunct oil-bath air cleaner that used oil to further trap
particles.

It did, indeed, have an oil-bath air cleaner. Nice little old tractor, but
that magneto was a perpetual problem. It has gone to a better place now,
though. (No, really, a friend who collects 'em bought it for parts to
restore another of the same type).

Dave

Do you have any record of spontaneous combustion coming about from dried
wood, subsequently rendered wet as he describes? Don't think it happens.

rhg


J. Clarke wrote:

Joe Emenaker wrote:


Okay, this is probably is going to strike most of you as a horrific
idea... but the more I thought about it, the more sense (or, at least,
the less nonsense) it made.

Back when I was making my own Biesemeyer clone
(http://joe.emenaker.com/Table-Saw%20...w%20Fence.html), I
was cutting a lot of angle-iron and steel tubing on my RAS fitted with
a metal-cutting wheel. Boy, did that thing make sparks like the
dickens! I thought it was going to ignite the sawdust which had
accumulated behind the RAS from earlier projects.

Well, I'm about to buy a DC and make my own cyclone for it. It struck
me that I'd be *asking* for trouble if I tried cutting metal with a DC
hooked up and running.

But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little
water in it? The water would catch all/most of those sparks. Not only
that, but it would be nice just for plain wood chips, since it would
help keep them under control when you detatch the bid to dump it
out... and it would help guard against some other DC-related fire
hazards (like hitting a nail or something).

So, I figured I'd ask: Does anybody out there *do* this?
Alternatively, has this been discussed before?


Now you end up with damp wood with an oxygen source. Can you say
"spontaneous combustion"?

- Joe

Do you have any record of spontaneous combustion coming about from dried
wood, subsequently rendered wet as he describes? Don't think it happens.

rhg


J. Clarke wrote:

Joe Emenaker wrote:


Okay, this is probably is going to strike most of you as a horrific
idea... but the more I thought about it, the more sense (or, at least,
the less nonsense) it made.

Back when I was making my own Biesemeyer clone
(http://joe.emenaker.com/Table-Saw%20...w%20Fence.html), I
was cutting a lot of angle-iron and steel tubing on my RAS fitted with
a metal-cutting wheel. Boy, did that thing make sparks like the
dickens! I thought it was going to ignite the sawdust which had
accumulated behind the RAS from earlier projects.

Well, I'm about to buy a DC and make my own cyclone for it. It struck
me that I'd be *asking* for trouble if I tried cutting metal with a DC
hooked up and running.

But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little
water in it? The water would catch all/most of those sparks. Not only
that, but it would be nice just for plain wood chips, since it would
help keep them under control when you detatch the bid to dump it
out... and it would help guard against some other DC-related fire
hazards (like hitting a nail or something).

So, I figured I'd ask: Does anybody out there *do* this?
Alternatively, has this been discussed before?


Now you end up with damp wood with an oxygen source. Can you say
"spontaneous combustion"?

- Joe

Robert Galloway wrote:

Do you have any record of spontaneous combustion coming about from dried
wood, subsequently rendered wet as he describes? Don't think it happens.

I'd rather not find out the hard way. Spontaneous combustion _can_ occur
with _dry_ wood but it takes a big pile. Get a little rot going and who
knows--that's pretty much the mechanism by which haystacks catch fire after
a rain. While spontaneous combustion is the topic of a certain amount of
research I don't think it can be described as a perfectly understood
phenomenon.


rhg


J. Clarke wrote:

Joe Emenaker wrote:


Okay, this is probably is going to strike most of you as a horrific
idea... but the more I thought about it, the more sense (or, at least,
the less nonsense) it made.

Back when I was making my own Biesemeyer clone
(http://joe.emenaker.com/Table-Saw%20...w%20Fence.html), I
was cutting a lot of angle-iron and steel tubing on my RAS fitted with
a metal-cutting wheel. Boy, did that thing make sparks like the
dickens! I thought it was going to ignite the sawdust which had
accumulated behind the RAS from earlier projects.

Well, I'm about to buy a DC and make my own cyclone for it. It struck
me that I'd be *asking* for trouble if I tried cutting metal with a DC
hooked up and running.

But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little
water in it? The water would catch all/most of those sparks. Not only
that, but it would be nice just for plain wood chips, since it would
help keep them under control when you detatch the bid to dump it
out... and it would help guard against some other DC-related fire
hazards (like hitting a nail or something).

So, I figured I'd ask: Does anybody out there *do* this?
Alternatively, has this been discussed before?


Now you end up with damp wood with an oxygen source. Can you say
"spontaneous combustion"?

- Joe



--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. is not a scientist, but a believer.

You are correct in assuming that it is the oxidation of volatile
organics -exothermic reaction - in confinement which causes ignition. They
are not normally found in seasoned wood.

"Robert Galloway" wrote in message
...
Do you have any record of spontaneous combustion coming about from dried
wood, subsequently rendered wet as he describes? Don't think it happens.

rhg


J. Clarke wrote:




Now you end up with damp wood with an oxygen source. Can you say
"spontaneous combustion"?

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:32:19 -0500, Robert Galloway wrote:
Do you have any record of spontaneous combustion coming about from dried
wood, subsequently rendered wet as he describes? Don't think it happens.

What, spontaneous combustion in moist wood-like substances, or from
someone specifically in this situation you mean?

It's certainly not much different from any other wet hay-like situation.
And I have stuck my hands into a pile of fresh sawdust to find it was
warm inside.

Dave Hinz

I'm going to have to go with Dave on this, growing up my dad was the fire
chief in a rural town in eastern ID, my grandfather was the fire chief in
Rexburg( 3 miles away), according to them you should NEVER leave wet
Organic material, hey, sawdust, grass clipping, etc. where they can't dry,
they'll begin to rot which makes heat, then they start to smolder, and as
soon as there exposed to air (like dumping the container) they'll burst
into flames, ever wonder why the trash company doesn't want to take yard
clipping?

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 18:12:07 -0400, George george@least wrote:
Are you bottom-posting because your brains are there?

No, I'm posting in the order that conversations take place in, so as
not to (ahem) come accross as an arrogant person whose pronouncements
shalt be the last word.

As I said before, it is volatile organics produced by _GREEN_ hay or
manure, or sawdust which ignite.

You seem to be equating my "fresh sawdust" with "green hay or manure" now,
which is most decidedly not what I had written.

It is a chemical reaction, and those chemicals are no longer present in
hay properly crimped and dried, or as the question to which you allegedly
replied, previously dried wood shavings.

So, the pile of sawdust I stuck my hands into wasn't really warm then?
Odd, sure felt like it.

You're sitting in front of a reference library, why not look up the real
answer instead of displaying your ignorance and then trying to defend it
with ad hominem bull**** (which ignites less readily than horse, because
cattle are more efficient in their digestion).

http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/...s/hayfires.htm

Yes, I'm familiar with wet hay fires. Are you going on record as saying
damp sawdust cannot spontaneously combust? How sure are you of this?
Showing that hay combusts for reason (A), and showing that sawdust does
not have reason (A), does not mean sawdust does not spontaneously combust,
it just means it doesn't spontaneously combust _for that precise
reason_. Yes?

I note the word "fresh" in your answer. Now read the question.

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:32:19 -0500, Robert Galloway
wrote:
Do you have any record of spontaneous combustion coming about from dried
wood, subsequently rendered wet as he describes? Don't think it
happens.

What, spontaneous combustion in moist wood-like substances, or from
someone specifically in this situation you mean?

It's certainly not much different from any other wet hay-like situation.
And I have stuck my hands into a pile of fresh sawdust to find it was
warm inside.

Dave Hinz

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 17:51:57 -0400, George george@least wrote:
I note the word "fresh" in your answer. Now read the question.

I would, my top-posting friend, but you've quoted in such a way to
make it inconvenient. Also, whatever your point may be is masked by
your apparent attitude, so I can't see much point. Maybe you're saying
that moist sawdust is different somehow from moist sawdust?

Are you bottom-posting because your brains are there?

As I said before, it is volatile organics produced by _GREEN_ hay or manure,
or sawdust which ignite.

It is a chemical reaction, and those chemicals are no longer present in hay
properly crimped and dried, or as the question to which you allegedly
replied, previously dried wood shavings.

You're sitting in front of a reference library, why not look up the real
answer instead of displaying your ignorance and then trying to defend it
with ad hominem bull**** (which ignites less readily than horse, because
cattle are more efficient in their digestion).

http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/...s/hayfires.htm

And any number of places.

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 17:51:57 -0400, George george@least wrote:
I note the word "fresh" in your answer. Now read the question.

I would, my top-posting friend, but you've quoted in such a way to
make it inconvenient. Also, whatever your point may be is masked by
your apparent attitude, so I can't see much point. Maybe you're saying
that moist sawdust is different somehow from moist sawdust?

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 18:12:07 -0400, George george@least wrote:
Are you bottom-posting because your brains are there?

No, I'm posting in the order that conversations take place in, so as
not to (ahem) come accross as an arrogant person whose pronouncements
shalt be the last word.

As I said before, it is volatile organics produced by _GREEN_ hay or manure,
or sawdust which ignite.

You seem to be equating my "fresh sawdust" with "green hay or manure" now,
which is most decidedly not what I had written.

It is a chemical reaction, and those chemicals are no longer present in hay
properly crimped and dried, or as the question to which you allegedly
replied, previously dried wood shavings.

So, the pile of sawdust I stuck my hands into wasn't really warm then?
Odd, sure felt like it.

You're sitting in front of a reference library, why not look up the real
answer instead of displaying your ignorance and then trying to defend it
with ad hominem bull**** (which ignites less readily than horse, because
cattle are more efficient in their digestion).

http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/...s/hayfires.htm

Yes, I'm familiar with wet hay fires. Are you going on record as saying
damp sawdust cannot spontaneously combust? How sure are you of this?
Showing that hay combusts for reason (A), and showing that sawdust does
not have reason (A), does not mean sawdust does not spontaneously combust,
it just means it doesn't spontaneously combust _for that precise
reason_. Yes?

Richard Clements writes:
I'm going to have to go with Dave on this, growing up my dad was the fire
chief in a rural town in eastern ID, my grandfather was the fire chief in
Rexburg( 3 miles away), according to them you should NEVER leave wet
Organic material, hey, sawdust, grass clipping, etc. where they can't dry,

Does that mean I can't put them in a closed compost bin then? They surely
won't dry there (but they will get pretty warm).

they'll begin to rot which makes heat, then they start to smolder, and as
soon as there exposed to air (like dumping the container) they'll burst
into flames, ever wonder why the trash company doesn't want to take yard
clipping?

My trash company takes yard waste. One can either rent a bin
from the City or pile the stuff in the street for pickup.

scott

(However, I just emptied the DC into the compost pile last weekend, and
within a couple of hours, the chips (on the top of the pile) were at well
over 110 degree F - Now, mind you, I was jointing and planing both green
2x6's and KD studs, so there was definitely green wood in the pile).

Scott Lurndal wrote:

Richard Clements writes:
I'm going to have to go with Dave on this, growing up my dad was the fire
chief in a rural town in eastern ID, my grandfather was the fire chief in
Rexburg( 3 miles away), according to them you should NEVER leave wet
Organic material, hey, sawdust, grass clipping, etc. where they can't dry,

Does that mean I can't put them in a closed compost bin then? They
surely won't dry there (but they will get pretty warm).

The key there is _closed_. No oxygen.

they'll begin to rot which makes heat, then they start to smolder, and as
soon as there exposed to air (like dumping the container) they'll burst
into flames, ever wonder why the trash company doesn't want to take yard
clipping?

My trash company takes yard waste. One can either rent a bin
from the City or pile the stuff in the street for pickup.

scott

(However, I just emptied the DC into the compost pile last weekend, and
within a couple of hours, the chips (on the top of the pile) were at well
over 110 degree F - Now, mind you, I was jointing and planing both green
2x6's and KD studs, so there was definitely green wood in the pile).

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Hey guys, go check out this site... they used wood chips and compost to heat
water to over 140 degrees!

http://www.motherearthnews.com/menar...062-092-01.htm

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Scott Lurndal wrote:

Richard Clements writes:
I'm going to have to go with Dave on this, growing up my dad was the
fire
chief in a rural town in eastern ID, my grandfather was the fire chief
in
Rexburg( 3 miles away), according to them you should NEVER leave wet
Organic material, hey, sawdust, grass clipping, etc. where they can't
dry,

Does that mean I can't put them in a closed compost bin then? They
surely won't dry there (but they will get pretty warm).

The key there is _closed_. No oxygen.

they'll begin to rot which makes heat, then they start to smolder, and
as
soon as there exposed to air (like dumping the container) they'll burst
into flames, ever wonder why the trash company doesn't want to take yard
clipping?

My trash company takes yard waste. One can either rent a bin
from the City or pile the stuff in the street for pickup.

scott

(However, I just emptied the DC into the compost pile last weekend, and
within a couple of hours, the chips (on the top of the pile) were at
well
over 110 degree F - Now, mind you, I was jointing and planing both green
2x6's and KD studs, so there was definitely green wood in the pile).

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Did you do any search at all, or read the material I referenced?

Did you catch the significance of the CRITICAL temperature? 100 C / 212 F
is the boiling point of water, which, up until that temperature is reached,
has been cooling the mass by evaporation, preventing ignition. You see, wet
hay, even when green, has to dry out before it can combust.

As I look out to the north I see round bales stretching across the next 40.
All have great bulk to provide insulation, all are undeniably wet, and none
are flaming, because the volatile organics which cause spontaneous ignition
are not there.

Oh yes, you put out a hay fire with water.


"Richard Clements" wrote in message
...
I'm going to have to go with Dave on this, growing up my dad was the fire
chief in a rural town in eastern ID, my grandfather was the fire chief in
Rexburg( 3 miles away), according to them you should NEVER leave wet
Organic material, hey, sawdust, grass clipping, etc. where they can't dry,
they'll begin to rot which makes heat, then they start to smolder, and as
soon as there exposed to air (like dumping the container) they'll burst
into flames, ever wonder why the trash company doesn't want to take yard
clipping?

Yep, on record as saying that, absent the volatile organics which are the
source of the ignition, you have wet sawdust, which won't burn on its own or
with a flame until the water is expelled. Fresh sawdust and fresh hay
outgas the same.

The wonderful thing about science is that there is a cause - effect,
reproducible outcome.

You find yourself approached to serve on many product liability juries?
Seems you're what the ambulance chasers would like.

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 18:12:07 -0400, George george@least wrote:
As I said before, it is volatile organics produced by _GREEN_ hay or
manure,
or sawdust which ignite.

You seem to be equating my "fresh sawdust" with "green hay or manure" now,
which is most decidedly not what I had written.


http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/...s/hayfires.htm

Yes, I'm familiar with wet hay fires. Are you going on record as saying
damp sawdust cannot spontaneously combust? How sure are you of this?
Showing that hay combusts for reason (A), and showing that sawdust does
not have reason (A), does not mean sawdust does not spontaneously combust,
it just means it doesn't spontaneously combust _for that precise
reason_. Yes?

George wrote:

Yep, on record as saying that, absent the volatile organics which are the
source of the ignition, you have wet sawdust, which won't burn on its own
or
with a flame until the water is expelled. Fresh sawdust and fresh hay
outgas the same.

The wonderful thing about science is that there is a cause - effect,
reproducible outcome.

You find yourself approached to serve on many product liability juries?
Seems you're what the ambulance chasers would like.

George, comments like that make it clear that you can't stand to have anyone
disagree with you and when you can't convince someone with facts and
figures (and you're not going to with the kind of assertions you're making
because you're assuming that the existence of one mechanism of ignition
precludes the existence of others and further, you're arguing that in the
presence of unknowns one should take the dangerous path rather than then
safe one) you'd rather insult them than agree to disagree and get on with
your life.

If science knew everything then the scientists would be out of a job.
Remember that.

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 18:12:07 -0400, George george@least wrote:
As I said before, it is volatile organics produced by _GREEN_ hay or
manure,
or sawdust which ignite.

You seem to be equating my "fresh sawdust" with "green hay or manure"
now, which is most decidedly not what I had written.


http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/...s/hayfires.htm

Yes, I'm familiar with wet hay fires. Are you going on record as saying
damp sawdust cannot spontaneously combust? How sure are you of this?
Showing that hay combusts for reason (A), and showing that sawdust does
not have reason (A), does not mean sawdust does not spontaneously
combust, it just means it doesn't spontaneously combust _for that precise
reason_. Yes?



--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

It's not me you should agree with, it's reality.

Find another source of ignition anywhere but in your imagination? Please
let us know.

The water of precise knowledge is in front of you. Drink.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

If science knew everything then the scientists would be out of a job.
Remember that.

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 06:43:07 -0400, George george@least wrote:
Yep, on record as saying that, absent the volatile organics which are the
source of the ignition, you have wet sawdust, which won't burn on its own or
with a flame until the water is expelled. Fresh sawdust and fresh hay
outgas the same.

So your statement, without weasel-words built in as you have done, is
"Sawdust from a woodworking shop cannot spontaneously combust", yes or no?

The wonderful thing about science is that there is a cause - effect,
reproducible outcome.

And yet, there are people who don't understand it, and will expand one
situation to an unlrelated situation.


You find yourself approached to serve on many product liability juries?
Seems you're what the ambulance chasers would like.

That's kind of amusing to read, since I'm the one in the back of the
ambulance, working on the patient.

Draw a venn diagram of your sawdust/manure/fire theory, and you can show
yourself where the flaw in your logic is.

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 11:06:20 -0400, George george@least wrote:
It's not me you should agree with, it's reality.

Find another source of ignition anywhere but in your imagination? Please
let us know.

Oily rags are not fresh manure or wet hay, and yet they can spontaneously
combust.

The water of precise knowledge is in front of you. Drink.

Oh, the irony.

George wrote:

It's not me you should agree with, it's reality.

Find another source of ignition anywhere but in your imagination?

I would much rather it be in my imagination than in my dust collector.

Please let us know.

The water of precise knowledge is in front of you. Drink.

ROF,L.



"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

If science knew everything then the scientists would be out of a job.
Remember that.


--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

By the same mechanism, if you had the sense to search!

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 11:06:20 -0400, George george@least wrote:
It's not me you should agree with, it's reality.

Find another source of ignition anywhere but in your imagination?
Please
let us know.

Oily rags are not fresh manure or wet hay, and yet they can spontaneously
combust.

The water of precise knowledge is in front of you. Drink.

Oh, the irony.