I live in a modern house (around 4 years old), it has a large and small
water tank in the attic, a hot water tank in an airing cupboard, and a
boiler (central heating) in my garage on the wall.

Tonight the hot water tank in the airing cupboard has decided to spring a
leak. Can't actually see or feel where the leak is coming from, but the
floor is wet - as is a few patches on the ceiling under the airing cupboard!

What I've done is I've turned off all water entering the house via the
stopcock under the kitchen sink. I did this as I was unable to find a
stopcock in the attic on the water tank for the feed to the hot water tank.
Turned on all hot & cold taps to drain the water (the large water tank in
the attic is now empty, the smaller one (for central heating?) is still
full). Finally I drained the hot water tank via the draincock in the airing
cupboard.

Also, the central heating and hot water systems are turned off.

What I'm unsure of is:

Can I run the central heating with the water turned off ?

Is it safe to leave everything off for the next few days ? my concern here
being the pilot light in the central heating boiler - even though the
central heating is switched off. Being without water for a few days isn't
an issue as I'm a scruff and would rather wait til after the Easter weekend
as it'll save an absolute fortune Is it safe though?

Obviously I have no drinking/washing water as if I turn the water on via the
stopcock then the hot water tank will fill up (and leak!) - isn't there
supposed to be a stopcock in the attic for precisely this reason? I
couldn't find it. The only other stopcock I could find is in the airing
cupboard and is labelled "hot water isolating valve" - could this be the
stopcock for the cold water feed to the ho****er tank? it's on a pipe
coming from the attic to the bottom of the ho****er tank so it seems likely,
but as it's labelled 'hot water' I'd like this confirmed (also, this
stopcock is mentioned seperately from the one that should exist in the attic
in the booklet I got when I bought the house)...

Thanks in advance,
John (who doesn't want to call out a plumber on Good Friday $$$$)

Subject: Leak in hot water tank
From: "Johnny"
Date: 09/04/04 01:46 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

I live in a modern house (around 4 years old), it has a large and small
water tank in the attic, a hot water tank in an airing cupboard, and a
boiler (central heating) in my garage on the wall.

Tonight the hot water tank in the airing cupboard has decided to spring a
leak. Can't actually see or feel where the leak is coming from, but the
floor is wet - as is a few patches on the ceiling under the airing cupboard!

What I've done is I've turned off all water entering the house via the
stopcock under the kitchen sink. I did this as I was unable to find a
stopcock in the attic on the water tank for the feed to the hot water tank.
Turned on all hot & cold taps to drain the water (the large water tank in
the attic is now empty, the smaller one (for central heating?) is still
full). Finally I drained the hot water tank via the draincock in the airing
cupboard.

Also, the central heating and hot water systems are turned off.

What I'm unsure of is:

Can I run the central heating with the water turned off ?

Is it safe to leave everything off for the next few days ? my concern here
being the pilot light in the central heating boiler - even though the
central heating is switched off. Being without water for a few days isn't
an issue as I'm a scruff and would rather wait til after the Easter weekend
as it'll save an absolute fortune Is it safe though?

Obviously I have no drinking/washing water as if I turn the water on via the
stopcock then the hot water tank will fill up (and leak!) - isn't there
supposed to be a stopcock in the attic for precisely this reason? I
couldn't find it. The only other stopcock I could find is in the airing
cupboard and is labelled "hot water isolating valve" - could this be the
stopcock for the cold water feed to the ho****er tank? it's on a pipe
coming from the attic to the bottom of the ho****er tank so it seems likely,
but as it's labelled 'hot water' I'd like this confirmed (also, this
stopcock is mentioned seperately from the one that should exist in the attic
in the booklet I got when I bought the house)...

Thanks in advance,
John (who doesn't want to call out a plumber on Good Friday $$$$)


I'm getting well confused with all these tanks - the one in the airing cupboard
is called a cylinder - but let's work through it anyway. The hot water cylinder
is filled from the large tank in the loft which will also supply the cold water
to the bath. If there is no stop valve between the two then you have to isolate
the mains supply to the large tank but all you need to do to achieve this is
tie up the ballcock with a stick and a piece of string. No need to shut the
water off at the mains or switch off the central heating. All you'll lose is
all hot water and the cold water to the bathroom. Cold water to the kitchen
sink will be straight from the mains and maybe the loo is also direct.

The cylinder fills from the bottom NOT the top so check again to see if there's
a stop valve between there and the large tank in the loft.


Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)
I'm not at all sure why women like men. We're argumentative, childish,
unsociable and extremely unappealing naked. I'm quite grateful they do though.

Subject: Leak in hot water tank
From: a (Dave Baker)
Date: 09/04/04 01:56 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Leak in hot water tank
From: "Johnny"
Date: 09/04/04 01:46 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

I live in a modern house (around 4 years old), it has a large and small
water tank in the attic, a hot water tank in an airing cupboard, and a
boiler (central heating) in my garage on the wall.

Tonight the hot water tank in the airing cupboard has decided to spring a
leak. Can't actually see or feel where the leak is coming from, but the
floor is wet - as is a few patches on the ceiling under the airing cupboard!

What I've done is I've turned off all water entering the house via the
stopcock under the kitchen sink. I did this as I was unable to find a
stopcock in the attic on the water tank for the feed to the hot water tank.
Turned on all hot & cold taps to drain the water (the large water tank in
the attic is now empty, the smaller one (for central heating?) is still
full). Finally I drained the hot water tank via the draincock in the airing
cupboard.

Also, the central heating and hot water systems are turned off.

What I'm unsure of is:

Can I run the central heating with the water turned off ?

Is it safe to leave everything off for the next few days ? my concern here
being the pilot light in the central heating boiler - even though the
central heating is switched off. Being without water for a few days isn't
an issue as I'm a scruff and would rather wait til after the Easter weekend
as it'll save an absolute fortune Is it safe though?

Obviously I have no drinking/washing water as if I turn the water on via the
stopcock then the hot water tank will fill up (and leak!) - isn't there
supposed to be a stopcock in the attic for precisely this reason? I
couldn't find it. The only other stopcock I could find is in the airing
cupboard and is labelled "hot water isolating valve" - could this be the
stopcock for the cold water feed to the ho****er tank? it's on a pipe
coming from the attic to the bottom of the ho****er tank so it seems likely,
but as it's labelled 'hot water' I'd like this confirmed (also, this
stopcock is mentioned seperately from the one that should exist in the attic
in the booklet I got when I bought the house)...

Thanks in advance,
John (who doesn't want to call out a plumber on Good Friday $$$$)


I'm getting well confused with all these tanks - the one in the airing
cupboard
is called a cylinder - but let's work through it anyway. The hot water
cylinder
is filled from the large tank in the loft which will also supply the cold
water
to the bath. If there is no stop valve between the two then you have to
isolate
the mains supply to the large tank but all you need to do to achieve this is
tie up the ballcock with a stick and a piece of string. No need to shut the
water off at the mains or switch off the central heating. All you'll lose is
all hot water and the cold water to the bathroom. Cold water to the kitchen
sink will be straight from the mains and maybe the loo is also direct.

The cylinder fills from the bottom NOT the top so check again to see if
there's
a stop valve between there and the large tank in the loft.

Oops - I originally gave up before reading your last paragraph properly (well
at all actually) having become exasperated by the excessive number of "tanks"
in the post. Only spotted it when checking if my reply had sent ok. Seems like
you have already found your hot water cylinder stop valve without knowing it so
no need to tie up the ballcock now. Just close the valve and put the mains
supply back on.


Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)
I'm not at all sure why women like men. We're argumentative, childish,
unsociable and extremely unappealing naked. I'm quite grateful they do though.

On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 01:46:33 +0100, in uk.d-i-y "Johnny"
strung together this:

Can I run the central heating with the water turned off ?

Yes, if you follow the rest of the replies below.

Is it safe to leave everything off for the next few days ? my concern here
being the pilot light in the central heating boiler - even though the
central heating is switched off.

You can switch it on.

Being without water for a few days isn't
an issue as I'm a scruff and would rather wait til after the Easter weekend
as it'll save an absolute fortune Is it safe though?

Obviously I have no drinking/washing water as if I turn the water on via the
stopcock then the hot water tank will fill up (and leak!)

If you turn the valve off in the airing cupboard labelled 'hot water
isolating valve' you can then switch the main cold water stop tap back
on and you'll have heating and cold water running. That tap in the
airing cupboard will just isolate the hot water.

- isn't there
supposed to be a stopcock in the attic for precisely this reason?

Yes.

I
couldn't find it. The only other stopcock I could find is in the airing
cupboard and is labelled "hot water isolating valve" - could this be the
stopcock for the cold water feed to the ho****er tank? it's on a pipe
coming from the attic to the bottom of the ho****er tank so it seems likely,
but as it's labelled 'hot water' I'd like this confirmed

Consider it confirmed.

(also, this
stopcock is mentioned seperately from the one that should exist in the attic
in the booklet I got when I bought the house)...

Should and do are two entirely different words to housebuilders!
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 02:26:26 GMT, (Lurch)
wrote:

Is it safe to leave everything off for the next few days ? my concern here
being the pilot light in the central heating boiler - even though the
central heating is switched off.

You can switch it on.

A doomsday scenario might be if he got a slow 2nd leak in the CH
circuit, perhaps in a pipe joint under the ground floor, where water
in the circuit dumped. If the CH system is not replenished then the
possibility exists that the boiler might fire up on empty.

I presume this could cause damage to the boiler?

I
couldn't find it. The only other stopcock I could find is in the airing
cupboard and is labelled "hot water isolating valve" - could this be the
stopcock for the cold water feed to the ho****er tank? it's on a pipe
coming from the attic to the bottom of the ho****er tank so it seems likely,
but as it's labelled 'hot water' I'd like this confirmed

Consider it confirmed.

Bear in mind however that sometimes these gate valves are a bit leaky.
So you turn the valve off and water still dribbles thru.

I would turn the valve off and leave the HW tap in the kitchen fully
open for the duration. That way should there be any leakage in that
valve any water which gets thru ought to dump into the kitchen sink.

Unless the plumbing is such that the HW tank feeds taps from the top
end, in which case oh-oh.

PoP

---
If you need to contact me please submit your comments
via the web form at http://www.anyoldtripe.co.uk. I'll
probably still ignore you but at least I'll get the
message.....

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I've decided to leave the mains water turned off, as I can't be 100% certain
that it's the hot water cylinder that's leaking - it could be one of the 4
pipes that run from the attic down through the floor and may be leaking
under the airing cupboard floor (I have a total of 7 pipes coming from the
attic into the airing cupboard)

Also, the other reason why I was concerned about whether it's safe to leave
the pilot light on the central heating boiler is because (after looking at
drawings in DIY books etc) there seems to be pipes that enter the hot water
cyclinder - even though I can have hot water without the CH being on and
vice versa.

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:22:07 +0100, in uk.d-i-y PoP
strung together this:

A doomsday scenario might be if he got a slow 2nd leak in the CH
circuit, perhaps in a pipe joint under the ground floor, where water
in the circuit dumped. If the CH system is not replenished then the
possibility exists that the boiler might fire up on empty.

I presume this could cause damage to the boiler?

Yes, which is why I said at the top of the reply switch the heating on
*if you follow the rest of the reply*, i.e. turn the water back on so
the CH tank has a water supply.

Bear in mind however that sometimes these gate valves are a bit leaky.
So you turn the valve off and water still dribbles thru.

I would turn the valve off and leave the HW tap in the kitchen fully
open for the duration. That way should there be any leakage in that
valve any water which gets thru ought to dump into the kitchen sink.

Won't work like that,

Unless the plumbing is such that the HW tank feeds taps from the top
end, in which case oh-oh.

Because of that. To be certain it is off you could either turn the
valve off then disconnect the pipe below the valve and fit a stop end.
Or you could remove the valve while the tank upstairs is empty and fit
a quarter turn ball valve.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

PoP wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 02:26:26 GMT, (Lurch)
wrote:

Is it safe to leave everything off for the next few days ? my concern here
being the pilot light in the central heating boiler - even though the
central heating is switched off.

You can switch it on.

A doomsday scenario might be if he got a slow 2nd leak in the CH
circuit, perhaps in a pipe joint under the ground floor, where water
in the circuit dumped. If the CH system is not replenished then the
possibility exists that the boiler might fire up on empty.

I presume this could cause damage to the boiler?


Not really - if the house is only 4 years old the system will be
indirect so isolating the hot water cylinder will not prevent the
heating circuit from getting topped up correctly. Also the OP said he
had two tanks in the loft - one would be for the CH system.

snip
Unless the plumbing is such that the HW tank feeds taps from the top
end, in which case oh-oh.


Um, I have yet to find a (working) system that feeds the hot taps from
anywhere other than the top of the cylinder. You need to drain the
cylinger from the drain cock which should be roughly where the cold
water feed from the isolating valve enters the cylinder. You will need
some hose and some way to get the water away. It may be worth getting
a friend or family member with some plumbing knowledge to help out -
or if you have to get a plumber in! You can't empty the cylinger from
the hot taps.

"Johnny" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the replies everyone.

I've decided to leave the mains water turned off, as I can't be 100%
certain
that it's the hot water cylinder that's leaking - it could be one of the 4
pipes that run from the attic down through the floor and may be leaking
under the airing cupboard floor (I have a total of 7 pipes coming from the
attic into the airing cupboard)

Also, the other reason why I was concerned about whether it's safe to
leave
the pilot light on the central heating boiler is because (after looking at
drawings in DIY books etc) there seems to be pipes that enter the hot
water
cyclinder - even though I can have hot water without the CH being on and
vice versa.

You can tie up the ball-float valve on the big tank in the attic which'll
stop the HW system getting any water, then you can turn back on the mains
stopcock to get cold drinking (and cold washing and flushing the bog) water.
You can run your CH system too, but set the programmer for HW OFF otherwise
it'll try in vain to heat up the non-existent water in the cylinder until
the cylinder thermostat says it's hot enough. Won't do any harm but a waste
of energy.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
"Johnny" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the replies everyone.

I've decided to leave the mains water turned off, as I can't be 100%
certain
that it's the hot water cylinder that's leaking - it could be one of the
4
pipes that run from the attic down through the floor and may be leaking
under the airing cupboard floor (I have a total of 7 pipes coming from
the
attic into the airing cupboard)

Also, the other reason why I was concerned about whether it's safe to
leave
the pilot light on the central heating boiler is because (after looking
at
drawings in DIY books etc) there seems to be pipes that enter the hot
water
cyclinder - even though I can have hot water without the CH being on and
vice versa.

You can tie up the ball-float valve on the big tank in the attic which'll
stop the HW system getting any water, then you can turn back on the mains
stopcock to get cold drinking (and cold washing and flushing the bog)
water.
You can run your CH system too, but set the programmer for HW OFF
otherwise
it'll try in vain to heat up the non-existent water in the cylinder until
the cylinder thermostat says it's hot enough. Won't do any harm but a
waste
of energy.



Yeah, but I'm not completely sure that it is the hot water cylinder that's
leaking and not one of the pipes that go into the floor in the airing
cupboard (from the attic) - all I can tell is that the raised floor in the
airing cupboard was wet, so I won't be able to tell for sure if it's the
cylinder or one of the other pipes untill the cylinder is removed - and I'm
not going to tackle that one myself (too scared/inexperienced).