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#41
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 21:45:34 -0600, Steve Barker wrote:
We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer, etc. Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a cut he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked more like a splinter. Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade. damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product you got there. what a joke! What's got your knickers in a twist, Steve? You seem to have directed all the hate most of us reserve for Congress at the SawStop makers. Those were not false trips - they were operator error. And we used a SawStop saw in the classroom at Woodcraft when I worked there. At least one student stuck a finger in the blade - it fired and she needed a band aid. Yes, the patent owner's business ethics leave something to be desired in my opinion, but there's lots worse out there. It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants :-). -- Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw |
#42
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:12:11 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:
I likewise consider myself in the "extremely careful" camp, but made one mistake a few years ago, resulting in a trip to the ER for what the doc called a "remarkably superficial" injury. Even so, it was quite painful, I'm now missing a *very* small portion of the tip of my left thumb, and there's a little spot that's permanently numb. Sounds like my left thumb :-). Not only that, I split a fingernail down the middle on my right hand about a year later. Lucky both times. Forty years with no table saw injuries, then two in a year. None since, but I've developed a better understanding of my fallibility :-). -- Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw |
#43
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Larry Blanchard wrote:
Forty years with no table saw injuries, then two in a year. None since, but I've developed a better understanding of my fallibility :-). As we all do Larry. I remember a time (probably 20 years ago...) when I was cutting through a battery cable terminal on my farm tractor. Brand new blade in my hacksaw, and theoretically, being quite careful. But it was cold outside, and I was getting firewood up, and time was a factor. To make a long story short, something slipped and I ended up with a full stroke of that hacksaw, right into my left index finger. Right to the bone. Young and stupid as I was, I wrapped it in a napkin and duck tape, and went back to work. Sure enough - it healed up just fine enough over a couple of weeks, but the cold still really effects that finger to this day. So - maybe even proper medical treatment would have not resulted in any different reaction to the cold today, but I can tell you this - the memory of that day is pretty real to me today, and it does impose itself on me every time I use a tool such as my table saw, that is capable of like injuries. It sure as hell imposes itself on me every time I grab a hacksaw... -- -Mike- |
#44
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:24:06 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote: On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 21:45:34 -0600, Steve Barker wrote: We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer, etc. Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a cut he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked more like a splinter. Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade. damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product you got there. what a joke! What's got your knickers in a twist, Steve? You seem to have directed all the hate most of us reserve for Congress at the SawStop makers. You say that like it's a bad thing, LB. Those were not false trips - they were operator error. And we used a SawStop saw in the classroom at Woodcraft when I worked there. At least one student stuck a finger in the blade - it fired and she needed a band aid. And a new diaper? Yes, the patent owner's business ethics leave something to be desired in my opinion, but there's lots worse out there. It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants :-). Hard to miss, eh? -- I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty. -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Count Diodati, 1807 |
#45
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:26:04 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Absolutely! We all try to be careful and those of us with half a brain realize that trying to be careful all of the time just does not fly. We are human and accidents happen. How much does it cost to reattach a finger or hand? There's one thing that all the SawStop naysayers don't consider. That is the fact that there's no incidents of the SawStop failing to function as it's designed to. (At least, I haven't heard of any) If there were, the news of it would have reverberated throughout the woodworking industry as well as all the general news sources. Apparently, the SawStop works as it's designed to otherwise we'd all have heard about it. 'Nuff Said! |
#46
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/22/2012 8:23 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/22/2012 12:05 AM, Steve Barker wrote: On 1/21/2012 11:27 PM, Leon wrote: On 1/21/2012 9:45 PM, Steve Barker wrote: On 1/21/2012 4:59 PM, DanG wrote: On 1/20/2012 8:09 PM, Digger wrote: On 1/20/2012 5:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote: Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage. Those things are a joke. Saw the hot dog live demo once. It worked as advertised and barely broke the skin of the dog. Amazing demo and when that blade stopped, even though I was expecting some noise it still scared the crap right out of me. You ought be in the same room or near the saw when it happens when you WEREN'T expecting it. We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer, etc. Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a cut he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked more like a splinter. Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade. damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product you got there. what a joke! Don't knock what you can not afford. i could afford 10 of them tomorrow and pay cash. You don't seem to understand. I DON"T WANT ONE!! And i don't want them forced on other people who know how to use a saw properly. Then shut the F___up about it. yes sir! -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#47
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/22/2012 9:02 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Steve wrote in : i could afford 10 of them tomorrow and pay cash. You don't seem to understand. I DON"T WANT ONE!! And i don't want them forced on other people who know how to use a saw properly. So if you don't want one, DON'T BUY ONE. The fact that other people DO want them is not changed by either your arrogant refusal to even consider the possibility that you might hurt yourself some day, or your consequent inability to understand why it might be a useful thing to have. i just want it to remain a CHOICE. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#48
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/22/2012 12:24 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 21:45:34 -0600, Steve Barker wrote: We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer, etc. Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a cut he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked more like a splinter. Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade. damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product you got there. what a joke! What's got your knickers in a twist, Steve? You seem to have directed all the hate most of us reserve for Congress at the SawStop makers. Those were not false trips - they were operator error. And we used a SawStop saw in the classroom at Woodcraft when I worked there. At least one student stuck a finger in the blade - it fired and she needed a band aid. Yes, the patent owner's business ethics leave something to be desired in my opinion, but there's lots worse out there. It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants :-). You're right, i probably did lash out in the wrong place. It just irks me to see so many seemingly smart people condoning government control and regulation. I'm sorry if i personally offended any persons in this group. I do get a lot out of reading the messages here. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#49
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:48:43 -0600, Steve Barker
wrote: On 1/22/2012 9:02 AM, Doug Miller wrote: Steve wrote in : i could afford 10 of them tomorrow and pay cash. You don't seem to understand. I DON"T WANT ONE!! And i don't want them forced on other people who know how to use a saw properly. So if you don't want one, DON'T BUY ONE. The fact that other people DO want them is not changed by either your arrogant refusal to even consider the possibility that you might hurt yourself some day, or your consequent inability to understand why it might be a useful thing to have. i just want it to remain a CHOICE. As long as they can be disabled, they WILL be disabled - and accidents will still happen. Forcing every saw to have one will NOT necessarily save many fingers or hands. Look how many saws are run without guards or splitters. Or by guys not wearing goggles. Are they a good thing? Quite likely. Particularly in a high speed production environment and/or where inexperienced operators are involved. But having saw operators DEPEND on that kind of technology to keep them safe detatches them from the ramifications of careless operation - and if they get careless - and the device fails or is defeated for some (possibly very legitimate) reason, they are finished. Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely carefull and to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and guards) |
#50
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and
to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and guards) Good points. If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and they would have to work on developing safe work habits. -- Jim in NC |
#51
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/22/2012 7:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 1/22/2012 12:24 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote: It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants :-). You're right, i probably did lash out in the wrong place. It just irks me to see so many seemingly smart people condoning government control and regulation. I'm sorry if i personally offended any persons in this group. I do get a lot out of reading the messages here. On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election being a better target than forced saw stop ownership. I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than buying a new hand, right? Of course if you fall into the power feeder... Well, maybe a law to force these guys to plunk the plank into the feeder with the power off, go in another room with the power switch, like a dentist doing xrays.... Yeah, that's the ticket. Jack Got Change: Supply and Demand ====== Command and Control! |
#52
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Jack wrote:
On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election being a better target than forced saw stop ownership. I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than buying a new hand, right? Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat - nobody is forcing saw stop ownership. If you don't like the saw, the owner of the company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the damned thing. Nothing is forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this is just stupid! -- -Mike- |
#53
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/22/2012 8:26 PM, Morgans wrote:
Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and guards) Good points. If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and they would have to work on developing safe work habits. -- Jim in NC And as all kids do they would look to prove you wrong and think you were a liar or incompetent since you could not prove that they did not work. Tell the truth, teach them the correct way to use a TS because they may not always have the luxury of working on a TS with this technology. |
#54
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Leon wrote:
On 1/22/2012 8:26 PM, Morgans wrote: Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and guards) Good points. If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and they would have to work on developing safe work habits. -- Jim in NC And as all kids do they would look to prove you wrong and think you were a liar or incompetent since you could not prove that they did not work. Tell the truth, teach them the correct way to use a TS because they may not always have the luxury of working on a TS with this technology. I think that's what Jim is trying to do Leon. I think he's trying to discourage the kids from blind trust in anything - technology, "safety devices", etc. and to develop practical safe habits. -- -Mike- |
#55
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:14:01 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote: Jack wrote: On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election being a better target than forced saw stop ownership. I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than buying a new hand, right? Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat - nobody is forcing saw stop ownership. If you don't like the saw, the owner of the company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the damned thing. Nothing is forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this is just stupid! ....not that they aren't trying, mind you. |
#57
Posted to rec.woodworking
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#58
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/22/2012 9:33 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/22/2012 7:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote: On 1/22/2012 12:24 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote: It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants :-). You're right, i probably did lash out in the wrong place. It just irks me to see so many seemingly smart people condoning government control and regulation. I'm sorry if i personally offended any persons in this group. I do get a lot out of reading the messages here. On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election being a better target than forced saw stop ownership. I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than buying a new hand, right? Of course if you fall into the power feeder... Well, maybe a law to force these guys to plunk the plank into the feeder with the power off, go in another room with the power switch, like a dentist doing xrays.... Yeah, that's the ticket. Jack Got Change: Supply and Demand ====== Command and Control! The fallacy of your analogy here is that if it is mandated by the government or actually willingly accepted by all manufacturers NO ONE is going to be forced to buy a saw with this technology. The choice to buy a saw with this technology or not will still be strictly up to you. I can assure you my wife will not be buying one. The simple truth is that that if you can not buy a saw with the safety device added you can elect to not buy a saw at all. Even more aggravating to me is that right now you cannot buy a saw with out the common blade guard, a device that is way less effective that the saw stop technology and yet we buy these saws any way but only because we want to. No one is forcing us to buy these saws with the less than desirable guards, which are mandated by some authority. |
#59
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/22/2012 10:18 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote: On 1/22/2012 8:26 PM, Morgans wrote: Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and guards) Good points. If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and they would have to work on developing safe work habits. -- Jim in NC And as all kids do they would look to prove you wrong and think you were a liar or incompetent since you could not prove that they did not work. Tell the truth, teach them the correct way to use a TS because they may not always have the luxury of working on a TS with this technology. I think that's what Jim is trying to do Leon. I think he's trying to discourage the kids from blind trust in anything - technology, "safety devices", etc. and to develop practical safe habits. Yes but adding a non truth go bolster the idea. He said, I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. If he could not prove that, and right now he cannot, the kids are going to not trust what he tell them. Kids are going to verify. |
#61
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:26:49 -0500, "Morgans"
wrote: Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and guards) Good points. If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and they would have to work on developing safe work habits. -- Jim in NC I used to teach auto shop. Taught the kids not to depend on safety stops on jacks and ALWAYS use proper jack stands. - among other things. |
#62
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/22/2012 10:27 PM, Jack wrote:
On 1/22/2012 9:18 PM, wrote: Look how many saws are run without guards or splitters. Or by guys not wearing goggles. You mean like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj4eyGEJe-s now THAT is pretty cool. Not that i condone using shakes as a roofing, but the sawing process is fascinating! -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#63
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Subject
First posted by a progeny of the Dumb **** family, Donald and Dory. Lew |
#64
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/22/2012 7:26 PM, Morgans wrote:
Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and guards) Good points. If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and they would have to work on developing safe work habits. Yeah, and your students would promptly do some internet research, find out were lying, and call you out on your BS. Your credibility would be shot, and then how effective a teacher would you be? |
#65
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/23/2012 1:30 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/22/2012 7:26 PM, Morgans wrote: Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and guards) Good points. If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and they would have to work on developing safe work habits. Yeah, and your students would promptly do some internet research, find out were lying, and call you out on your BS. Your credibility would be shot, and then how effective a teacher would you be? i can guarantee if one of those was in a high school, there'd be a hotdog test every time the cartridge was replaced. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#66
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 22:14:10 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 1/22/2012 8:26 PM, Morgans wrote: Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and guards) Good points. If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and they would have to work on developing safe work habits. -- Jim in NC And as all kids do they would look to prove you wrong and think you were a liar or incompetent since you could not prove that they did not work. Kids'll do that every day, anyway, Leon. It's our idiotic human nature to do so. Tell the truth, teach them the correct way to use a TS because they may not always have the luxury of working on a TS with this technology. BINGO! Odds are 99:1 (or higher) right now that their dads won't have a SS at home. -- I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty. -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Count Diodati, 1807 |
#67
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Mike Marlow wrote:
Jack wrote: On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election being a better target than forced saw stop ownership. I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than buying a new hand, right? Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat - nobody is forcing saw stop ownership. If you don't like the saw, the owner of the company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the damned thing. Nothing is forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this is just stupid! Yet. |
#68
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Mike Marlow wrote:
...not that they aren't trying, mind you. Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a feat? Gast is an ass but he is not stupid. Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws. It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up. |
#69
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
HeyBub wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote: ...not that they aren't trying, mind you. Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a feat? Gast is an ass but he is not stupid. Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws. It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up. I have - have you? There is nothing in that proposal that forces you or I to go out and buy a SawStop and melt down our existing table saws. -- -Mike- |
#70
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600, "HeyBub"
Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws. What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw before that proposed regulation comes into effect? |
#71
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/23/2012 10:49 AM, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600, Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws. What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw before that proposed regulation comes into effect? I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**. I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone can address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws. |
#72
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Dave wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600, "HeyBub" Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws. What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw before that proposed regulation comes into effect? Kudos, Dave. -- -Mike- |
#73
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Bill wrote:
On 1/23/2012 10:49 AM, Dave wrote: On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600, Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws. What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw before that proposed regulation comes into effect? I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**. I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone can address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws. UL compliance only pertains to newly purchased items. It has nothing to do with existing products. As for new compliancy requirments - that's for new stuff. When was the last time the UL Police showed up at your house to inspect and demand an update to your 20 year old toaster or steam iron? -- -Mike- |
#74
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/23/2012 11:41 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote: On 1/23/2012 10:49 AM, Dave wrote: On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600, Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws. What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw before that proposed regulation comes into effect? I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**. I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone can address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws. Are you saying that Sears, and others who sell $100 TSs, are only permitted to sell table saws with riving knifes? (I don't know the answer to this, as I mentioned above). UL compliance only pertains to newly purchased items. It has nothing to do with existing products. As for new compliancy requirments - that's for new stuff. When was the last time the UL Police showed up at your house to inspect and demand an update to your 20 year old toaster or steam iron? |
#75
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/23/2012 11:54 AM, Bill wrote:
On 1/23/2012 11:41 AM, Mike Marlow wrote: Bill wrote: On 1/23/2012 10:49 AM, Dave wrote: On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600, Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws. What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw before that proposed regulation comes into effect? I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**. I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone can address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws. Are you saying that Sears, and others who sell $100 TSs, are only permitted to sell table saws with riving knifes? (I don't know the answer to this, as I mentioned above). Just checked, the TS Sears is selling for $134.99 has riving knifes, and many other features too--too numerous to mention! ; ) UL compliance only pertains to newly purchased items. It has nothing to do with existing products. As for new compliancy requirments - that's for new stuff. When was the last time the UL Police showed up at your house to inspect and demand an update to your 20 year old toaster or steam iron? |
#76
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JUST ONCE.....
Bill wrote:
On 1/23/2012 11:41 AM, Mike Marlow wrote: Bill wrote: On 1/23/2012 10:49 AM, Dave wrote: On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600, Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws. What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw before that proposed regulation comes into effect? I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**. I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone can address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws. Are you saying that Sears, and others who sell $100 TSs, are only permitted to sell table saws with riving knifes? (I don't know the answer to this, as I mentioned above). $100 table saws? And you find those exactly where on the Sears web site? Just what are you really asking? UL compliance only pertains to newly purchased items. It has nothing to do with existing products. As for new compliancy requirments - that's for new stuff. When was the last time the UL Police showed up at your house to inspect and demand an update to your 20 year old toaster or steam iron? |
#77
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/23/2012 5:48 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
HeyBub wrote: Mike Marlow wrote: ...not that they aren't trying, mind you. Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a feat? Gast is an ass but he is not stupid. Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws. It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up. I have - have you? There is nothing in that proposal that forces you or I to go out and buy a SawStop and melt down our existing table saws. The problem is, if the regulation was put into effect, every TS manufacturer would have to buy technology from the SawStop company. A TS that retails for $600 today would cost $1200 tomorrow. Sure, you could disable the SS, but if you wanted to buy a TS at all, you'd have to pay twice as much for the saw as as you would in a free market. |
#78
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/23/2012 5:48 AM, Mike Marlow wrote: HeyBub wrote: Mike Marlow wrote: ...not that they aren't trying, mind you. Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a feat? Gast is an ass but he is not stupid. Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws. It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up. I have - have you? There is nothing in that proposal that forces you or I to go out and buy a SawStop and melt down our existing table saws. The problem is, if the regulation was put into effect, every TS manufacturer would have to buy technology from the SawStop company. A TS that retails for $600 today would cost $1200 tomorrow. Sure, you could disable the SS, but if you wanted to buy a TS at all, you'd have to pay twice as much for the saw as as you would in a free market. There is nothing new in that understanding - if... the proposal goes through as currently written. There's a lot of room for speculation there. That said - what you post above, though fair in the realm of speculation, does nothing to support the claim that everyone will be forced to buy a SawStop. -- -Mike- |
#79
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JUST ONCE.....
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:06:13 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote: Just Wondering wrote: On 1/23/2012 5:48 AM, Mike Marlow wrote: HeyBub wrote: Mike Marlow wrote: ...not that they aren't trying, mind you. Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a feat? Gast is an ass but he is not stupid. Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws. It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up. I have - have you? There is nothing in that proposal that forces you or I to go out and buy a SawStop and melt down our existing table saws. The problem is, if the regulation was put into effect, every TS manufacturer would have to buy technology from the SawStop company. A TS that retails for $600 today would cost $1200 tomorrow. Sure, you could disable the SS, but if you wanted to buy a TS at all, you'd have to pay twice as much for the saw as as you would in a free market. There is nothing new in that understanding - if... the proposal goes through as currently written. There's a lot of room for speculation there. That said - what you post above, though fair in the realm of speculation, does nothing to support the claim that everyone will be forced to buy a SawStop. Let's just simplify it a bit. Anyone buying a NEW legal table saw IN THE US would be forced to buy a SawStop. There's always someone willing to sell non-compliant equipment off the back of a truck, or to represent it as "used", or to bring non-compliant equipment in from, say, Mexico. Or China. |
#80
Posted to rec.woodworking
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JUST ONCE.....
On 1/23/2012 12:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
$100 table saws? And you find those exactly where on the Sears web site? Just what are you really asking? I didn't know whether retailers were allowed to sell saws that are Not UL approved. That's what I was really asking. Also, I was surprised to see $100 TSs that had riving knifes... Here is one. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...block Type=G2 I am Not shopping for one of these however! |
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